The WGA’s Surprise Deal With the Studios, Bad Robot Downsizes, and the State of International Crime Thrillers on TV

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I need support staff to clear the room.

Stand up and walk now.

Hello and welcome to the watch.

My name is Chris Rye and I am an editor at TheRinger.com

and joining me in the studio, he is risen.

It's Andy Greenwald.

That's a reference to another charismatic Jewish guy

with questionable hair.

What's wrong with your hair?

I don't know.

I get a lot of comments.

From who?

From your fans.

What?

The CR heads.

They talk about your hair.

Yeah.

Oh.

Well, I'm sorry.

That's OK.

Next time we have a meeting, I'll talk about it.

Just listen, control your people.

That's all I'm saying.

Greenwald, great to see you, bud.

Great to see you.

We have a lot to talk about.

Yeah, we missed you on Thursday.

Joe was very nice to come by.

We did a prime time programming grid.

We talked about something very bad.

It's going to happen.

We talked a little bit about the pit news that I was going

to see if you wanted to comment on.

I do.

I'm worried I missed the night shift discourse, too.

I feel like that went over big.

It did.

And it's just growing, although I do feel like the internet is now just scraping the most

casually tossed off.

Like, sure, that would be cool.

Like Sean had his quotes to be like, night shift is indevelopment.

And the Russo brothers will band and doomsday to make it.

Yes.

That's right.

So yeah, like we said, by the way, today on the pod, you can, first of all,

you do it.

I'm going to do three resets here.

First of all, you can reach us at thewatchitspotify.com.

And you can follow us on Instagram at thewatchpod underscore and you can watch us on YouTube at

Ringer-TV and you can watch us on Spotify, where I think you're probably listening to us,

but you can find us on lots of different podcast platforms.

And on the podcast today, a few news and notes, a WGA agreement, a closure of a beloved

production company in Los Angeles.

Oh, yeah.

I'm going to buy weekend at the films, at the movies.

Well, I want to hear about that.

And then we're going to talk about two international crime shows.

Who couldn't be us.

Friends and neighbors is back.

I'll get to it.

Andy's going to get to it, probably eventually.

I think I, I've watched enough friends and neighbors in my life personally, but like,

maybe I'll check out second season a little bit.

Are you doing the Dave Wasserman?

I've seen enough.

I want to see Marsden and then I will have seen enough.

Okay.

Can I come over the top with one A-block story for us today in the podcast?

Absolutely.

Happy birthday, Kaya.

Thank you.

She keeps it really quiet about that stuff.

Private.

I know.

And here I am.

Is that why your sister was in town?

Yes, it was.

Whoa.

Okay.

See?

Okay.

She keeps it private.

Tell me more about your family.

How was that Shabli?

Kaya was it okay here?

No.

Not a real Shabli then.

Happy birthday, Kaya.

Thank you.

Are you?

Should I guess your age?

Sure.

Go for it.

31.

Close.

You're 30.

You're 30 and you're here?

Yeah.

I don't really know why.

Oh my God.

I know.

You don't remember that.

One of the ways to know, I forgive me.

There are many ways to know.

But one of the ways to track Kaya's age is she's the same age as our friendship.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Wait, is this the day we met?

Today?

No.

No.

She wasn't born.

She didn't emerge into the world.

The moment we locked eyes in a border's book.

It never made sense that she was here.

It was like, it's like in a...

Paradise.

We've been on these roads together.

That's a good line.

I feel bad that you're here on your 30th birthday.

Because there's nowhere else I'd rather be.

That's really nice.

That's a lot of the walk.

She has a lot of plans today, but she wanted to know our thoughts on two

international spy thrillers.

Just before she committed to the rest of her birthday.

It literally dozens of other people.

There are dozens of us.

Was that the only A-block news you had for me?

Yeah, although I'm still reeling from your protein announcements

right before we started reporting.

Well, Grimald was just crushing like a...

It's a crushing...

Unnameless yogurt that trumpets its own protein offerings.

And I was just speaking from personal experience

that when I was at the beginning of my wellness journey.

Where are you now on your wellness journey?

I'm in the zone.

I know it's good for me and really what it is is like

you have to tune out all of the noise and lift weights.

You have to get back to the back of the comic book

that's like, what's up, Pips Week?

Pick this heavy thing up 55 times.

Chicks will dig it.

To be clear, many parts of the comic book spoke to me.

None louder than that page.

In the back page ads.

No, you just...

I see that you got this thing and I've been there, man.

I've used to...

Wait, stop.

One time I put way too much protein powder in some Greek yogurt

and I thought I could see God.

Like it was really disgusting.

I want to just make a couple things clear.

I'm tired of the allegations.

You're trying to promote here.

I'm not into the supplements.

I'm not adding powder.

When you say I brought something in,

I arrived.

Some of us get to the podcast early.

Okay.

Once.

And I was like, I'm early.

I could get a snack.

And our friends here said you can go to the other turn right

by the office named Danny DeVito and there's some snacks.

And they had...

I was like, maybe I'll have a yogurt.

The only yogurt they had is protein maxing.

Okay, that's not me.

My attitude towards all this stuff is just moderate.

Yeah.

Eat a little bit of this, drink a little bit of that,

lift a little bit of weight.

Sure.

Do some stretching.

Yeah.

Ever do that?

I do, sometimes.

Yeah.

You look great.

Thanks.

But I just want to be clear.

I was a little thrown.

It's like a middle-aged guy power thing where you sit down

to go to work and you're like,

you sure about that?

You can eat that.

I just want you to be happy and healthy while we do this podcast.

And while we talk about the new agreement signed by the WGA.

That's going to keep me happy and healthy.

And I always mess up their crazy,

a lot of PTP.

That's them.

The Amp to the studios.

And I think the one thing I would mention about this is

it seems like, at least in the initial reporting,

it's a four-year deal.

Unlike usually a three-year.

Usually a three-year.

This is a four-year.

It's a really interesting reporting over the course of the weekend

about I saw some quotes from Christopher Nolan,

who's not only the director of the Odyssey and Inception,

but is the head of the DGA.

And he was like, you know what?

I don't like long deals.

Because if we had signed a five-year deal in 2020,

imagine how much this industry has changed since then.

This is also, isn't this Bill's advice, too?

Bet on yourself.

Yeah.

We're the way Bill and Christopher Nolan feel comfortable

making that advice.

Yeah.

As a member of the Writers Guild Association,

you must be happy.

I'm happy and curious.

So this was a-

It's the best place to be, man.

That's what makes me an essential cultural critic.

Thank you.

Happy, curious, full of protein.

Yeah.

This was a surprise.

Not that a deal was reached, but that it was reached so quickly

and so apparently amicably, because negotiations have only been going

for about 10 days.

There was a lot of concern, as there always is.

This is going to blow your mind.

Writers are a bit of a neurotic lot.

So there was a lot of-

What's happening?

A lot of what's happening.

And also a lot of just general ambient concern,

because this is not me speaking for any ambient WhatsApp.

But I think this is a shared feeling.

Every three years, the writer's guild makes a deal,

and every three years, somehow,

we end up looking like Charlie Brown trying to kick Lucy's football.

Yes.

No matter what-

I think management and labor, that is-

That's not correct.

Generally how people feel, yeah.

So the fact that-

And also obviously the last few negotiations were quite fraught.

Not just the strike three years ago.

The one before that was COVID,

so that kind of got rubber stamp quickly.

The one before that was like 11th hour.

And people were writing strike signs.

So there was a lot of concern about that.

When I think-

I write them-

Yeah.

I was like, which puns shall I scribe today?

But it would've been for like 2018, right?

Yes.

Yeah.

Oh, it would've been a lot of like, think about that.

The president of the United States just declared war on science.

Never the less I persisted.

The hardest, I mean, there were many challenges of the strike,

but one of the biggest challenges was arriving at the studio

like during a, like not necessarily like at the beginning of a shift.

Sure.

And all the only signs left would be like really corny puns.

And you'd be like, come on.

We're writers.

Yeah, let's get in the room.

Let's watch some of this.

Yeah.

The reason I said curious is mainly because the details haven't been announced yet.

What was announced by the studios and by the writers was that whatever the deal is

that it addressed, this is easy for them to say, the two biggest items on the docket,

the biggest one being the health fund, which I am apparently going to be in need of,

due to my protein induced renal failure.

But that there is quite a big shortfall financially.

The studio, we needed studios to put more money into that pot basically.

And the other thing was just the vague AI protections and people have concerns about being paid for post services and things like that.

So just some general ambient issues that apparently they did address,

but we'll find out more details in the coming days.

I think the biggest changes here from what I understand is the absence of Carol Lumberdini,

who was the chief negotiator for the past few contentious.

Sure, Pelvos.

Apparently she was, she had stepped down allegedly.

Carol, you might be a soft elbow negotiator for a little.

Maybe she just ate the wrong thing right before she stepped into the room.

She was just like, I thought this was, I thought this was equal.

I didn't know that there's no protein factor.

So we don't know that, but the other way to look at it and the other way to look at it might be,

and this is a hundred percent pie in the sky.

And you can say this before details come out, it would be nice to think that there was some shared sense of,

we are in the precipice of really existential change to this industry,

all industries, the American economy, America.

And it would be great if we could find some common ground to not weaken each other at this moment.

Yeah, I mean, I hope that's the case, but we'll see.

It seemed like the last work stoppage took several years to get over.

In terms of getting things back on track and production timelines.

It was quite disruptive.

It was quite disruptive.

But it also was, there was more detail to it than this.

This is a broad brush, but one of the things that we went on strike over was something,

it's a little inside baseball, but many rooms, right, that there was a increase,

there was a, it was becoming more and more frequent, that instead of when green lighting a show,

instead of giving a showrunner or creator, producer, writer a full room,

they would hedge their bets and say, we will fund, you know,

three weeks, three weeks, six weeks, see what you can get done.

And then if what comes out of that mini room, whether it's one scripture, three scripts or more,

is promising, then we will roll with it.

And so it was important for the writers to guarantee some protections involving those mini rooms,

which were sort of free-floating and not necessarily, you couldn't necessarily apply minimums and things to those rooms.

So we fought, we went on strike, we got concessions,

and the studio said, cool, we'll never do those again.

And the football.

But fair is used to do that.

What happened here?

Exactly.

You would think that we would, again, because it's weird,

you writers do have some pair of niches, I believe, as well.

Sure, yeah.

So you'd think that there would be some memory.

Not that it never feeds into their work or anything.

Never.

So there was a lot of that kind of stuff.

The other thing I'll say before we move on to the topic,

that is a black eye, this should be a great moment

for the writer's guild.

I will say that it is an ongoing black eye

that the writer's guild support staff has been on strike

from the writers guild.

Oh, yeah, I saw that for a number of weeks,

and which is embarrassing and ridiculous.

And then in the midst of this, before the deal

was announced over the weekend,

word got out that in its own hardball tactics

against its own staff, the guild of which I am a member,

is cutting off the healthcare of its own staff,

which is something that the AMPTP has never done to writers.

So clean your own house up.

Sure.

It's ridiculous.

That sucks.

It sucks.

I didn't know about the healthcare part.

I knew that they were out on strike

because I think Seth Rogen made a reference to it

at the Oscars or at the Sag Awards.

He was like, we can't even have the WGA.

Yes, the awards, that's exactly right.

The writers guild awards didn't happen

because of this ongoing strike.

You know, I was just bringing up the labor negotiations

between the WGA because over the weekend,

there wasn't like a ton of hardcore entertainment news

that we would need to pick over that much.

But I did note that JJ Abrams is closing Bad Brobot

in Santa Monica, which is his production company

and moving to New York.

This Spielberg did this too.

They made a big, they didn't write an essay,

like my leaving LASA, but they didn't.

Well, so you know, you can never really tell

with social media testimonials anymore

and like whether this is like a guy who stopped in

and got a protein yogurt once

and is now writing like a goodbye to all that about it.

But.

The back half of this podcast.

Um, you did, you did see a lot of very similar kind of like

bad robot had 3D printers and smoothies for all.

Yes. And a slide on the roof.

Yes. And it was a hub of creativity

and I don't know if anybody actually gives a ship

but this is kind of the version of the California dream

that we thought we were moving out to.

Like I never thought I was gonna write mission

and possible movies or anything like that.

But I know that when you moved out here

from the screenwriter, there are a lot more places

like bad robot dotting the California landscape

and I was driving home from dinner last night,

past the completely dark and abandoned arc late

center, Ramo complex.

I saw even the save the arc late social media count

was like, I give up.

I no longer I'm doing this.

This is not gonna happen because from what we understand

and this is this is super insight baseball

but the arc late is a beautiful center, Ramadom.

The most like this spread out ridiculous fake town

does not really have a central square

other than maybe the fountain at the Americana.

The the arc late was that and is a great place

to see movies and a historic place.

It's been closed since COVID.

From what we understand, multiple people have attempted

to open a movie theater there.

But it been rebuffed because for whatever reason

the developers who own the site

think it's more profitable not to have something there.

Whatever the right down is to have it but not operated.

I have no idea. This economy works ladies and gentlemen.

In a case, this is maybe not like the most relevant thing

to people outside of the movie or television industry

and the greater Los Angeles area.

I thought it was notable that it does seem like

at the same time that the studio landscape is changing

with the Paramount acquisition of Warner Brothers

so that you guys got your Gulf state funding.

So shout out Dave.

Came through right the last second.

That kind of gochis.

No matter what.

I just thought it was an interesting little mile marker

on the road of like.

Yeah, there was a time when the entire city

was kind of dotted with like.

Shingles.

But actually it had weird like, you know,

I think time sort of trappings.

For what it's worth, there weren't many places like Bad Robot.

Like I've been there for a couple of meetings

and it is what people, I mean it was a remarkably curated space.

Everything was creative and whimsical and tactile

with old machines and an incredible chef

and people loved going to work there

and famously or honestly, infamously

when we look back on it.

Like moments from Force Awakens were shot in that office.

Like they were just playing around

with some stormtrooper get ups, you know,

and we're just running into this office.

I mean, I guess maybe they probably dream screened the office.

It wasn't actually like, you know,

Aaron Chairs on the Millennium Falcon.

But anyway, I'm of mixed feelings,

I have mixed feelings about this

because when you put it in the larger framework

of the slow death of a creative industry,

it is galling and heartbreaking and it is a shame

because that was a place that people were excited to do

business with and to be involved with

and it did feel like an idea factory

and was set up to sell the idea of an idea of being an idea factory.

I think the flip side of it is you could also look at it

as a Requiem on kind of the waste and indulgence

of the last 10 years.

Sure.

Where I believe the deal that locked bad robot

into Warner Brothers was in excess of $250 million.

And that's not a check to JJ.

That's to keep the company.

Yeah, I think that's probably more also like the way NFL

contracts work where you're like, whoa,

and then it's like actually, it's only like $6 million guaranteed.

But like, I don't think it's that is the problem.

Oh, really?

You think they got like the quarter bill but made duster?

Yes.

Okay.

I think that from my understanding of these deals

and this is why we see, there's two sides of it.

Like as a writer in this world who would love,

who would, let me look to the camera,

would love another overall deal.

We want more of those.

That's good.

In the same way that the players are like,

no, Kyle Tucker's deal is awesome for all of us.

Thank you.

No need for a salary cap.

But the flip side of it is when those deals

had reached such a ludicrous point that based on name

and past performance, this is why we always use,

I don't know why we always go to baseball analogies,

but this is why we go to the Albert Poole's analogy.

Like a quarter bill for JJ Abrams is kind of after the fact

for lost and Cloverfield.

Right.

Which doesn't mean to say his best days as a creative

himself are behind him.

But if you look at what that company produced

for its TV and movie obligations in the last few years,

and look, it's hard.

You can't just flip a switch.

And they had many antique steampunk switches.

You can't just flip one and make brilliant successful stuff

that connects with audiences.

But the return on investment was relatively low.

And maybe lower overhead might produce more better.

I don't know.

But anytime jobs leave here, not great.

Well, we'll find out when he gets back to the land of Big Zoe.

You think?

You think he and Steven are just in the lab?

Maybe they're going to do some more sketches

with Curtis Leua about Pat Elf.

I wanted to let you know that I saw the drama.

Yeah, I had a question for you about it.

I can ask you over text, but I want to know your thoughts,

no spoilers, because I want to see it.

But I needed to know from you that the twist is not hard.

This is the funniest question you've asked me in 2026.

Is it a horror movie?

No.

Then I'll see it.

Yeah.

It goes to show you how complicated it is to market

something like this today.

Because there is the version of it

that you actually can't help yourself,

but click on everything about it and find out

over the course of clicking what the film is about.

And then there is like, I don't know if you are

willfully not reading about it.

Yes.

Or willfully.

We're like third hand being like,

if they're hiding something from me,

is it Satan's dog comes.

The fist of it.

Yeah, comes flying out from it to the front.

I saw the trailers and it is a wink, wink marketing campaign.

So I understood, but I haven't read past that.

So my understanding was that there was a twist.

You can't make a movie about a couple getting married

with that framing and that.

I mean, everything in the marketing told you

there was more to it.

And all I want, I don't think it's not a horror movie.

Then I'll see it.

Yeah.

You liked it.

It is a, so it's directed by this guy,

Christoph Borglie.

And it definitely has like some qualities

that are very Scandinavian.

He did dream sequence.

Direct dream scenario.

Dream scenario with those kids.

This film is set in Boston, but in some ways like,

could be Copenhagen, you know,

everybody's looking great and seems to have

a socialized health care.

But it is kind of like the inverse of your preferred version

of Scandi drama, you know?

Okay.

Like say like sentimental value, like the way like I know

you respond to Joachim like in like the kind of emotional

catharsis.

He's a girl dad.

Have we mentioned that?

Who Joachim Puntrier?

Yeah.

Is that, I just watched the interest drain from you.

I like to develop that.

Must be nice.

Okay, dad of children.

No, dad's be a girl dad.

You don't care.

I care.

I don't know.

You care about me.

Yeah.

But that is not a driver for us.

I actually care less if a director is a girl dad.

Yeah.

I know.

Yeah.

You know who cares?

I'll ask Cares.

Sean, Sean's with me on that one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I respect what you're doing.

Go have catches.

Like we need good men in this world.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love the drama.

That's not all great.

But also you said you liked it.

If I don't mean to blow you up here and do reportage on your text.

Sure.

But you'd seem like you liked the experience of seeing the movie a lot.

And then you also liked the appraisinema.

You liked talking about this movie.

Yes.

And I'm sorry I can't back you up on it.

But I'm really.

I really enjoyed going out to dinner with my wife after seeing the drama and then talking

about the drama a bunch.

Yeah.

What was?

With a little Justin Chang and being like, well, look what he says.

It was like, I was very engaged evening.

What was first of all, you were both very engaged conversationalist about culture.

It's enjoyable.

What is off top of your head?

What was the worst post movie dinner conversation you've ever had with Phoebe?

Was it when you like had to take her to see the eternal?

No, it was like she, she, she tapped out on like going to movies that she knew she was

going to hate a long time ago.

I think we left the film 21 grams in the middle of it because it was giving her a panic attack.

Fair.

Um, I don't remember what we did afterwards.

We might have gotten drunk.

That's probably why you don't remember it.

That's awesome.

That's great.

Okay.

I wanted to see if you had any pit thoughts before we get into the international crime shows.

Not necessarily about the episode or about make for sure about the episode if you'd like.

And also about the cast changes and the general state of the series as we enter.

I believe the last two.

Yeah.

I mean, I think that they're one of the things that I have just loved and I think we've

been, I've been beating this drum pretty consistently for the last few weeks is I absolutely

love the way the show is surprising us and manipulating us in the best possible dramatic

way with pace and expectation.

The season is not going to end without something else big happening.

I think I don't think there's going to be necessarily resolution to Robbie's dark

night of the soul, dark day now into the night of the soul.

But I think that story will be pushed more into the center of the table in one way or another.

But the fact that this episode felt very like both at once kind of LJ and like reflective

for the day that was and people and you know, an Ogil V is changed so profoundly over the

course of this, these 12 hours, but everyone has been changed slightly by what has happened.

To have that happening concurrently with the show's honest to God, superpower.

No other show has ever done this, which is just like if you need a shot of, I guess not

for said, the opposite of for said.

But dreadless.

We have an entirely different cast of this show just ready to roll.

Yes.

Just to show up and give us completely new blood, new faces, new energy, new relationships,

new perspective.

It's unprecedented and it's so, so exciting.

And of course, the fact that it's so exciting is why people are immediately fan casting

and wishing for spin-offs.

But it also, this is what you're referring to in terms of the news, makes sense that the

show has, the other thing that has that other shows have never had is a farm team of just

characters that could be up streamed to the main cast and be part of it, which is what's

happening with Aisha Harris's, I believe, Dr. Ellis.

Dr. Ellis's character who, like all these night shift people from Dr. Shen to Jack,

I mean, these guys, Mateo, these guys all have main character energy and they are the

main character of the non-existent.

The shift show.

Yeah.

But that makes, that makes a lot of sense.

And again, like the, it is unique to the show or maybe it's not unique to the show.

There have been other shows that we've talked about that have like a built-in mechanism

for cast turnover and the shows that have used it that well.

They can do things where, like I think that Dr. Mohan, who I'm a fan of the actor and

the character, it seems, it's, I don't think anybody watching this season was surprised

that she may have, that story may have reached its natural end.

Her character was going to go one of two directions.

As she was either going to be like, I am going beast mode and now understand the pace

and demands of this department or I'm a really good doctor, but I don't really want to

do this kind of medicine, which I think is a totally, I think one thing that's cool about

what the show does is it just gives you the view or the information when Whitaker is

talking to Ogle V and Ogle V is like, I'm going to go do peeds or something.

Whitaker is just like, this is the only place where you really feel like I feel like I'm

making a difference in people's lives and you see them on their worst day.

That seems great.

One thing that'll be interesting to track as the show runs two, three, four, eight seasons.

It can be, it, it, it cruel isn't the word, but it can, it can be swift in its determination

about things.

Sure.

And they can say, I have no reason, I, two things to say, one, I have no inside

information whatsoever about the production of this show.

That said, I believe them when they say that Sabrina Ganesh is moving on because that

character for story reasons has reached the end of its story road and they're going

to switch it up.

Tracy Afeetro who played Dr. Collins in season one, heard departure, that she never came

back from her D&D notice on her phone, still strikes me as super odd, but they can say

it's story reasons because this is turnover.

Yeah.

So I, I guess what I mean is that like as we reach season five and season six of the

show, new faces get announced, there's going to be, it's going to be a little stressful

because it's not like being added to, like it's all at will employment.

People can be ridden off of shows all the time.

But I think that people get, usually when people get added to a hit show, they're like,

awesome.

I can settle in for a minute.

Yeah.

This show is built on turnover and you can't guarantee anything other than the fact that

you are going to get a big boost out of whatever you do on the show.

I think it'll be fascinating to see you over the course of the rest of this season and

certainly into season three, which I imagine will air sometime early in 27 if not exactly

when 20 season two started airing, whether they're become untouchables on this show.

And I think that Dana and Robbie are and, and, and Whitaker and Whitaker might be, and

Santos might be as well in some ways.

And Mel.

But that crew is like locked in or if there is still like, it could be anybody.

And I don't think they would make the show without Noah Wiley or I don't think the show

is the same show without Noah Wiley.

But, you know, you, they are having these characters that acrossroads in their life, especially

Dana and Robbie thinking about like whether or not they can actually do this anymore.

And so that's an interesting crossroads to arrive at in season two.

And I don't know if you can return to the same crossroads in season three with the same

characters.

But what can do?

I think the thing that we keep, and certainly I do, I keep, I keep getting rocked and impressed

by the how nimble the show is in taking advantage of its uniqueness, not just its uniqueness

in terms of its setting and hours, but uniqueness in terms of its clockwork, old-fashioned dependability.

There absolutely can be a season of the pit where Robbie doesn't show up until hour eight.

It can be a season of the pit where we get a lot more Dr. Shen and a lot less Dr.

Santos.

Sure.

The show is built to contain that.

And I also think the nature of it where they are filming an LA at a certain time every

year, I think that they can, they can take advantage of that.

I think it's very different than telling an adult actor, you need to move to Belfast for

one to six years.

Yeah, yeah.

Stuff gets done.

The travel departments of these networks, I can say, are very efficient, terrifyingly so,

getting people into other countries, a relatively quick turnaround.

But I think that that aspect of it, you know, it also, that's a grandiose way of talking

about the kind of familial thing that they are already creating where relatives and wives

and partners of many of the cast members have already shown up.

Yeah.

There was no Wiley's wife this week or the previous week.

She was the person who had too much turmeric.

Oh yeah, the maha person.

Yeah.

Actually, I don't know that she's actually identified as maha.

Yet be careful.

Chris, you're the one with the protein yogurt.

Look, some of us are just curious.

You're the one with Robert Kennedy Jr.

For anti-yoker.

I'm not taking that because I'm hungry, by the way.

I'm taking it because I'm very sick.

And I've heard that yogurt can be...

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You'll...

Keep... keep a comment.

I like it when you're like, I have a number of talking points for you.

I was going to ask you about the maximum pleasure guaranteed trailer.

This is an upcoming show on Apple, starting Tatiana, Ms. Lonnie.

The reason I was going to ask you about it was because...

I couldn't tell whether or not we are in a...

The throes of a wave of popularity about upper-middle-class curiosity about the dark side of life

or if that is just one of the most durable things to make TV about anyway.

I'm just imagining it because of DTF and your friends and neighbors.

It's obviously something that Apple is interested in is this seemingly perfect person just

got a little bit dangerous the other day.

This seems about a woman who starts exploring her sexuality and then some various levels

of crime start happening around...

A slippery slope, Karen.

That's the genre.

Is there a name Karen in this?

No, I'm just saying that's the new genre I'm inventing.

Slippery slope, comic-erad.

Why don't I, Karen, always be calling the cops, right?

Oh, well, we haven't seen the episodes.

Yeah, but like...

That could be episode one.

This won't do.

Peep, peep, peep, peep.

It's ringing.

You guys are in so much trouble.

Hold on.

Yeah, you stay right there, young man.

They put me on hold.

They've all been laid off.

Do you notice these guys of things where it's just like, oh, for some reason we're making

10 shows, like for a while there, I felt like half the shows that we get announced or released

were from the True Crime podcast about the dentist who killed 50 people, but also had

six wives.

Yeah.

I think that you can track middle...

Well, there's no such thing as middle class anymore.

Sorry, it's funny, little joke.

You can track a certain upper middle class, let's say, malaise through television.

And breaking bad, for example, which is maybe the greatest example of this, of like,

I'm a successful suburban science teacher.

Wait, systems aren't working for me.

I shall cook drugs.

Yeah.

That's how I remember the pilot.

That premiered maybe even the day...

No, it premiered in January of 2008.

So it premiered just as that presidential campaign was starting, but was clearly developed

at the end of the Bush era of just economic ruin and foreign misadventure.

And I would say that you could track this.

That's the canary in the coal mine, especially at a moment when it's weird.

It's like, in the last year and a half to here, is TV got really interested in the

plates of well off white people again?

Which is...

Give us some content.

But I think you can track that, and I would be curious to see some of the...

We've heard about announcements of some like, return to the family drama type shows and

to see those guyger counter wobbles, institutionally, systemically happening to that sort of person.

That is an end...

It's an endlessly renewable well, but seems to come up to the surface at certain times.

Well, you know what?

This is actually a pretty good segue.

We watched two international crime shows this weekend to get ready for the pod.

One...

You're welcome.

One is called unfamiliar.

And it briefly on Thursday, we'll get into that a little bit more extensively because

I think that did more for us.

But I do want to ask you about this show on HBO Max called Privileges, which is a French

language show, or French show.

And it is from the creators, our Marie Mung and Vladimir de Fontenay, who I believe were

in attendance at the Eyes Wide Shut party I was at this weekend.

I'm just kidding.

It just sounds like kind of the people with the cloaks.

Tell us more about the party.

No, I'm just joking.

Was it held in the abandoned Synoramidome?

Like we are failing as a nation, thus we must embrace perversity.

When you get up to the door, you go Tarantino and they let you in.

No, just, you know, I was just having fun at the expense of their names, but not fun

at the expense of their show, which I actually, I think I enjoyed a little bit more than

you, but the reason I'm connecting it to maximum pleasure guaranteed is this is in and

of itself a crime show.

And there's basically two shows here in privileges.

It's about a young inmate named Adele, who's a wonderful performance by this young actress

named Manon Brush.

She as part of like a work release program joins the staff of a luxury hotel called the

Citadel in Paris.

And it's a kind of secretive program that the manager of this hotel, Edward, runs.

We are led to believe probably because he himself has come from a rough patch in his life.

So what happens is he gets these people to come aboard and they basically will do anything

for him to stay out of prison or to secure some sort of release.

Adele is returning to prison every night.

Yes.

You know, as he brings her on, there's this pilot episode she gets used to being there and

then pulls off an extraordinary request of a pop star guest of the hotel.

This hotel is sort of at the nexus of power, fame, money.

And basically every single guest is either need something, want something, is doing a

drug, is having a illicit affair or something.

So you get a lot of good GV marrow out there.

The thing I was going to say is that they approached this world from the perspective of somebody

who has nothing in this Adele character, whereas like the ones you're describing in

America are tends to be, hey, everything was going pretty great for me until fuck.

And it does change your brain chemistry to watch a series where, you know, first of all,

you can totally understand why Adele will in, you know, no spoil.

Well, I guess spoilers for this first episode because it helps to be able to discuss it.

There is an extraordinary sequence in the first episode of privileges where Adele goes

and fetches a boa constrictor for one of the guests.

And it is shot like uncut gems as as much of Adele's kind of behavior and action in the

show is very like handheld, incredibly tense, heart-thumping.

And it's like you're cheering for her in a way that I don't think you cheer for coop

in your friends and neighbors to get away with stealing Rolexes from another rich guy.

All that is to say there is another half or 75% of privileges.

That is basically a fox procedural.

And is 19 different black male plots overlapping.

And even for my fluency and international crime, challenging to keep straight all the

different subplots that they have introduced within 70 minutes of TV time.

What did you think of the show?

Yeah, I mean, I have a larger take for both of these shows.

And I do think we need to start discussing this as its own genre, which is, I think,

elevated Euro-trash.

Okay.

It's okay, brother.

Listen, I'm not.

Someone who went to college in the Northeast in the 90s, I was jealous of the elevated

Euro-trash.

Yeah.

They knew which bars to go to.

You know, they dressed great.

Sometimes they would get me a cocktail.

I have those CD singles seem to come out of nowhere.

All the CD singles.

The, it's also just about how the way these types of shows, and this is not just these

two shows, this is a lot of the shows that we like and I was thinking back to like Lupin

and like all of these European shows made for international streamers.

There's a certain language, visual language.

There's a color palette.

There's a lack of humor that is just shot through them all and it's becoming a little

bit samey.

But I think that you're making a, but I did like this show and I think it's a really,

really smart and strong setup of this character coming into this world through the service

entrance.

And hotels are fascinating, bizarre places that are.

Great place to do a TV show.

A lot of people, energy and engine for plot and story because you have new people showing

up every week.

I think, I think the way you're looking at it is really smart.

We talked about this recently in relation to Taylor Sheridan shows and how I just, maybe

he's no longer, you know, now that he owns much, most of rural America himself, he's no

longer the person to write the man of the people show.

But I think that every one of the Taylor Sheridan shows I've engaged with over the past year

would have been improved by like, like, Landman would be much, much better if it was about

Bosses Crew and then the other characters were there too, but they were fleeting as opposed

to we have access to all of it.

And we are as interested in the guys who literally got blown up as we are with Demi Moore's

whatever.

Well, to your point, for a variety of reasons, I think Landman season one works better than

season two.

Number one is because Tommy works for somebody in season one.

It's a great point.

Yes, he is like, I got to do what a fucking Monty says and that I might not believe it all

the time and I have to go sell it to this person and this person.

And I think not to, I can't believe word.

You're finally letting me talk about international shows in other languages.

And I'm like, Taylor Sheridan is, this is, you really cooked me.

That is so bad.

But I do think that as much as like the Taylor Sheridan hero narrative of Taylor Sheridan

is look where he was and look where he is now.

And that is the narrative then of all of his shows.

And so that's probably what he can't.

Unless young Taylor come into CBS this fall.

They did it for Sheldon.

They could do it for him.

He's like, I'm an actor, but I want to be a writer.

And they're like, Oh, Taylor, you never could be a writer.

Just get back on that motorcycle son of Ankara.

I'll show you.

Ta, ta, ta, ta, ta.

Ta, ta, ta.

And then the black hawk helicopter said women are sad sometimes.

Anyway, honestly in line as they are sad sometimes with good reason because they've taken out

a foreign government.

Brownie face.

Actually, opposite of what you thought from me, because I loved his egg, I thought the

second episode of privileges was better because it had settled into what it was going to

be.

I thought the first episode was had so much to do to get a del into this world and for

us to understand the stakes and all the faces and the characters.

And it was based on something that I found so profoundly silly, which is the snake heist.

Yes.

I like that.

But it wasn't, it should have been funny, but it was shot as if it was on cut gems and

there needed to be some absurdity to it.

Yeah.

I thought instead it had like the most French needle.

This is going ebberting it now right now.

I like that.

It had the most French needle drops ever where it's just like some old spiritual like sped

up, you know, you must bathe in the water.

And she's like, I'll rescue the snake in its abode constrictor.

But do you see the fully guy in France?

Just like lighting one cigarette off the other and being like, I will add zeerate of this

snake.

But Bowers don't have rattles.

No, no, you don't understand.

We have no snakes in France.

These are scaly, this is scaly.

And then it was like also the same thing.

There's a lot of snakes in that scene.

She has to find the boat.

But then every time they wanted to remind us that she had the snake on her person, they

were like adding the same sort of Polynesian jungle sounds that used to play at Epcot.

I didn't notice that.

That is really perceptive.

Don't nuts.

Anyway, by the time I got to the second episode, it's like, okay, now she's in it and the

stakes are what they are.

And now there's an international football star who wants to play PlayStation with her.

And then there's also the larger, there have to be Russians.

Then one of my other favorite things ever in these international shows is when they have

to have an American person in the cast.

Mark Pepo is the name of the character.

The cast, the American tech bro named Mark Pepo.

That is so good.

And they always refer to him as Mark Pepo.

And Mark Pepo.

Yeah.

Mark Pepo is here.

He has requested the cheap champagne.

And I do believe the actor who plays Mark Pepo is French, but maybe he was raised into

cultures.

So he has much like myself.

One culture with you, one culture that is just really annoying.

And somehow we make it work.

It was like the same thing.

Remember the rich guys in Squid Game?

Yes.

They're like, hey there.

Hey, honey, wipe my ass with an American flag.

It's like the guy in the country who plays that part is just available.

I'm really hoping some American CIA agent shows up on unfamiliar.

Yeah.

That would be so sick.

There's a lot of English and unfamiliar.

We need to get to it.

Anyway, I think it's a charming show and it's a good show.

It has room to grow.

I do wish that it was freed of and we could segue into unfamiliar if you want, because

I wish it was freed from this same...

It privileges his HBO Max, but it is netflexy.

And one thing just to contextualize all of this, like every nation, every nation one had

a thriving...

So in the 18th century...

What?

The typical...

The television set was invented as a tool for the worker to entertain.

When Tracy Litz began August, I was the each county.

How could he have known?

I think Tracy listens.

It's time for a rewrite.

September, Josege County.

Yeah.

So every country had their own TV services and they were making TV shows and they had more

dist...

I would say distinct national or regional characteristics of how they made TV some good,

some bad, some translatable and exportable, some not.

I mean, one thing that is worth saying to contextualize what I'm trying to articulate

is that when I've talked to people in England, they're like, most of our TV...

Has been dog shit for years and you would see the six things that were good.

I think that's reductive, but I understand that this is something for us too.

But there are 400 television shows on a year.

You and I talk about 12.

But now all TV shows are built to be exported because like with cinema, the international

market is incredibly lucrative and makes sense, especially for these services that launch

and want their own...

HBO Max just...

The book, silo.

Launched in England.

Stuff.

Launching internationally for an HBO Max to catch up with Netflix is to say HBO Max in

France, HBO Max in Germany, what are our shows that you imagine in the pit in HS where

everybody is just like, that's taken care of me.

It's like, no, but imagine if it was...

But if it was the pit in HS, the 15 hours would be someone being told they could come

back for their surgery in three weeks.

Maybe like, fantastic.

They just sort of sit down, they could get a pint and then three seasons later, they're

like, me gold ladder.

It's gold.

It's got a bit bigger.

Now it's...

Yeah.

But great, great.

Sorry for the aside.

Great pitch.

But the international language of these shows is getting semi, as well I'm trying to say.

And I wish there was a little bit more of an idiosyncratic feel to these shows that

didn't feel like some of the edges were...

It's a double-edged sword, right?

Because like the sopranos and wire influences on Libero or is what probably makes it...

Totally.

And it makes it in some ways as good if not as good as those shows that it was influenced.

And one of the things that this is also the opportunity that's given us is switching

to unfamiliar, which is a spy show in Netflix, German language spy show, created by Paul

Coates, I believe, is this niche?

Who I...

Yes.

And again, we don't know.

I wasn't able to track down the actual origins of the show, but my assumption is...

I think Co-Port has now become a genre.

So I think it's multi-country international co-productions is now not just a way of selling

stuff, but it's like...

If Paul Coates who's worked on spy stuff in England and also comes from writing, you

know, Emmerdale and Holly Oaks and other shows that sounds like I'm making up their names,

but are quite popular in England.

Yep.

But he's a very accomplished veteran screenwriter.

If he's going around and doing meetings, he meets with Gomaat or he meets with a German

producer and talking about maybe selling the idea of a British show in Germany.

This was something where, like, I think he brought an idea of, like, I mean, it's essentially

the Americans meets Eastern Gate.

And they were like, not only, yes, let's set it here and we should get the BND to participate

because of...

It's like out of a sense of transparency with the German people or something like that.

Yes.

I think...

My assumption is...

Something like the intelligence service of Germany.

It's very cool building.

It's very likely that he had this and it was either written or prepared to be pitched

as a show set in London.

And they said, well, why don't you just do it here.

That international language is very cool and offers up different perspectives and also

allows the show to be set in 2025, 2026 as hottest hotspot, Belarus, which is...

I would say what happens in Belarus stays in Belarus, but that is rarely the case.

No, they make sure that it always catches up with you.

It always catches up to you.

It is a rough, rough...

I mean, what is the current, like, fictional trip advisor ranking for holidays in Belarus

after Eastern Gate?

I think we should break our live show moratorium into a Belarus show.

And then that's our last show.

Just give in to Mother Russia, if you reclaim.

But, oh, by the way, before we get into unfamiliar international translations, we didn't mention

the fact that Disney, the larger global Disney plus umbrella, they're remaking the Americans

as the Koreans.

Yes.

And set in the 80s, but with North Koreans buys in Korea.

And I think that's phenomenal.

That's awesome.

I think it's an exciting idea.

Trying to think of some other stuff that we could set in different places.

There are many things we could set in different places.

Do you want to...

We have been doing that anyway.

You know what I mean?

We're just without calling it.

Mobland is just...

Sopranos, put set in England.

You know, like...

What about DTF Minsk?

See what I did there?

Did you just look up cities and Belarus?

Is Minsk Belarus?

Yes, I did.

I heard that.

100% did.

Yeah, I was like, damn.

You typed and then you pulled Minsk.

Got DTF Minsk.

I went...

Jokes.

Chachy PT.

God.

Come on.

God.

Come on.

Yeah, we should do that.

We should totally do that.

It's a good bit for us.

All right, set up unfamiliar.

Let's talk about it.

Unfamiliar, like I said, vibe wise.

It's the Americans meets Eastern Gate.

If you didn't watch Eastern Gate, it's the Americans meets a slightly more like grounded

bornish action spy thriller.

24ish, you always were saying when we were watching it.

Yeah.

Homelandish as well.

Sure.

One of our favorite shows here.

We decided to access to shoot within the BND headquarters in Berlin.

And it concerns partners and parents.

Simon and Merit Schaefer.

Simon is a girl dead.

He is.

No.

Well, don't spoil it.

I'm not spoiled with it.

Okay.

No stolen valor for you here.

Simon and Merit are partners and parents.

They have a teenage daughter named Nina.

They run a nice little Berlin restaurant.

And they moonlight.

They are safehouse proprietors for spies on the run or for intelligence operatives on

the run.

Their past catches up with them in the form of a Russian spy named Koliyev, who is looking

to settle a score from an operation 16 years prior that went wrong in Belarus.

Yep.

This one's cool, man.

Six episodes on Netflix.

The thing that will get you with unfamiliar, you watch to them.

They just that last five minutes.

They always are like, hey, but you want to keep watching.

It's super.

No, it's Netflix maxing in a way that I, unlike privileges, like I watched the first one

of this and I was like, here we go.

This is my new favorite show.

And I watched the second one and I was like, yes, this will be fine.

It is incredibly engaging the first episode because it just stacks scenarios on top of

each other with an absolutely relentless pace.

And from these people, they have a safehouse.

Oh, they used to be this.

Oh, there's this thing in the past.

Oh, it's connected to the highest levels of power.

There's a almost brutal, dare I say, dramatic efficiency to some of it.

Yeah.

There's a moment in the beginning of the second episode when Simon and marriage, the

married couple, are talking about the state of play.

And I know that all the Netflix executives were like, we would never ask our creators

to restate the plot every 10 minutes.

Maybe they just do it for us.

But yet I actually really admired the efficiency of that scene where married is basically

like, you're acting crazy.

There's a corpse in the safe house and Koli of his back.

And now you're telling me this person is alive.

It was like bang, bang, let's get it done.

Four foreign language films for our purposes.

It helps to have some resetting.

I mean, like the whole like Ben Affleck, Matt Damon, being told to say what the plot

of the rip is six times is probably overblown Dan Lynn who runs Netflix movies is disavowed

that.

I did think in the rip that they overstated the circumstances.

But in this show, it's welcome because half of it is told in this flashback manner.

I will just say that I thought the initial premise of this show of like, we have a restaurant,

but by night, we have a safe house in any other world would just be like a really solid backbone

for a TV show.

Like a long running TV show to add on the case from the past has come back to haunt us.

Our daughter is in danger.

Multiple factions of German and Russian intelligence are in play.

And one of us has a slow moving health crisis that would not survive the mid NHS.

Yes.

There's a hat on a hat on a whatever a German hat is.

Like the little Kaiser will, Wilhelms kind of do even German people ever put a Kaiser Wilhelm hat on.

I mean, we haven't seen SNL DE yet, but I imagine some of the cold opens have that.

Do you think?

That's I mean, it's a rich country.

You know, they probably got a lot of footage sketch on SNL UK this week.

Yeah.

Could you curate the best of the weekends bits for me like a newsletter?

Could I?

You probably could.

You want me to start like a sub stack and just start sending you stuff or an email?

That's just a sub stack.

It just for me.

Oh.

An email.

Could you email me?

I'm asking.

And what do I get out of it?

I'd be like, that was your right.

That was funny.

You probably feel good.

You're like, wow, I picked a good thing.

I made him laugh this week.

There was another thing I wanted to say about this though.

I just I think that that's a really smart.

Sorry, Cisco and Iber.

I thought that was a really smart observation because I think I agree with you and I was responding to those rhythms.

I think that I enjoyed decent setups are very, very hard to come by.

Yeah.

And they're very hard to come by with funding and financing and good cast and I can call

up or you can like that.

The actors in the show are really strong and really compelling.

German Sarah Paulson is great.

Isn't merit?

I don't know what her name is.

She's awesome.

Spoiler.

There is a point in the first episode.

This isn't really German.

I won't spoil what she's doing.

Actually, I will spoil what she's doing, but not to whom.

She performs some advanced interrogation techniques on them.

Performance.

Yeah.

She looks pretty cool wearing like a full latex torture protection kit.

Was anyone wearing that at the Arc like this weekend and did you approach them casually?

Say Karen, the password is slippery slope and that's the last thing you remember until

you were talking about the drama.

Suzanne Wolf is the actor.

She's good.

But just that it's hard to come by these scenarios and so that is a multi-running

that's potentially a multi-season show for me, but that is not the business model for Netflix

Germany right now.

It's not.

And here's the thing that's funny.

So we were talking about the pit earlier.

There's a version of the pit that is less strict about its setting that goes up to Gloria's

admin office that goes home with these people that turns up the knob on their romantic lives

outside of the office.

What's adherence to its format and its form, I think is 50% of the reason why it's successful.

If there were subplots in the pit about funding crises or if we were cutting back and forth

between like the legal department and the cyber defense unit as they were fighting off

some of the problems that the season had experienced, I don't think I would be as interested.

I'm interested in these people performing their jobs.

So I think with privileges and unfamiliar, both are very easy to get through because

they're watchable in their six episodes and especially with unfamiliar all the episodes

are up.

The privilege is going week to week so the third one comes up this week.

Friday, yeah.

I just like, I think that there's a version of like there's either an unfamiliar that's

a movie and there's an unfamiliar that's like a 12 episode long running TV show about

people who run a safe house for spies.

It's right in the middle.

Yes, I think we've talked about this before but I think one of the biggest challenges

to making good stuff these days is you have potentially limitless formats or vessels to

pour your story into.

Picking the right vessel is 50% of success.

And it might not even be your choice.

And ultimately might not even be your choice exactly.

I think that I think some networks and streamers are becoming a little more case by case and

trying to make the best version of it.

But there are many, many other examples of someone having a good idea and finding a potential

willing buyer or partner and that partner says, we love it.

But what we do here or what we need right now is X or the opposite.

We need a limited series right now.

We need to dominate.

We need to Gorma Cheeseburger that will go around the world and be in our top 10.

And then you pivot and you can still end up with something good.

But I do think that sometimes that misalignment can stop things from being great.

I want to ask you for unfamiliar what was the most German thing about it and I'll give

you three choices.

Number one, that at least 40% of the cast in the show were also in the television show

Dark.

Including Thomas Peachman who plays old, what's his name?

What was the kid's name, the main kid?

He was a youngness.

Yeah.

And in this show he plays a guy's name, Jonas.

Yeah.

Who maybe could be the same one because also dark and brooding and operating within a plot

that only he is privy to.

Handsome guy though.

Happy to see him.

Number two, that the way we understand that certain scenes are set 16 years in the past

is that Simon has a single earring or the fact that their daughter, Nina, is one earring.

Their daughter, Nina, is both newly 16 and an accomplished club DJ.

That was German as fuck.

I also thought it was pretty German that they took public transport home from the night club

when they went and saw their teenage DJ daughter.

That's the brain of the teenage DJ.

Yes.

A million percent.

A million percent.

She also, I would say that any time that that one breaking, they're on a bus.

And then when she goes on a like a Uriel trip, she wears like the uniform of traveling

Germans for the past 40 years, which is sweaters with zippers that they don't need to have.

Like up to here.

My only other note as a big fan of spycraft, spoiler alert, I don't know.

I could be wrong.

I don't know how they do things in Germany because as you know, Fingers ended in the late

1940s.

So basically the last 70 years of German history is a blank team.

It's gone fairly well.

I don't think that spies call other spies and leave detailed voicemails about where they're

going, what they're thinking, and what they need to know.

There's another thing that I was going to bring up about and from later.

I first of all, I just want to say, I enjoy watching the show and I will finish it.

It's really good, but I did have that kind of like, oh shit.

Oh, okay.

This was one of the first series that I've come across where the technological advancements

at the fingertips of at least fictional spies kind of kills the vibe a little bit.

So there's one point where the Jonas character that we're talking about who seems to work

in like private security and is maybe playing both sides against the other is like, let

me call up my satellite imagery of this situation.

Oh, yeah.

And then is like, pan left.

And I'm like, so what the fuck can we just see everything all the time now?

That's not spying.

The whole show is in a computer.

The show begins.

Like, let me find out.

The opening of the show where a like a dark asset like gets his way into the safehouse

to determine who these people are.

Not only does he shoot himself in the knee to do it.

Now again, I'm no ballistics expert, but I feel like there are less painful places to

shoot.

I think you're a little bit above.

I think you get the fleshy part of the thigh there.

Oh, you're just, I thought he was trying to imbi-ed himself permanently.

Never going to play 65 games again that he then makes it to their safehouse enjoys

their soup, which you know is a scene I really liked a lot.

And then once he's unattended, goes into the control room of the safehouse and just dials

up the internet.

Yeah.

Specifically the Russian like back channel portal that to show them a thumbprint.

Now he uses their technology the same way I used to use the Apple store to check my emails

on my Yahoo account 20 years ago.

Like that was very simple and everyone there was like, sure man, do what you got to do.

Everybody is meeting at library bar.

I won't be joining them.

The opposite.

I was the one who would make my way to the Apple store and be like, hello friends.

The temperature has reached 68 degrees.

Shall we be drinking Alfresco this evening?

And before I hit send, Phoebe would be like, yes.

She was my connect.

Yeah.

Yes, I thought that's like there's just technology is coming for all of us.

Even spice.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I think the reason why we responded so strongly to all of our Harris books is because

he's using it in a way.

Very creative way.

That feels like it's still the spirit of the story.

And even he is like, I create like a character who lives in Dubai and just can break into any

computer.

Like it is kind of a cheat I think a little bit.

Yeah, but then what are the consequences?

Of course.

Yeah.

And that's a tough life.

But that said, when I googled jokes about Belarus, it worked.

You know, crushed.

I hacked into Paul.

It gave you a little taste.

I hacked into Paul Prevenza's laptop.

And that was like, I found the mother load joke after joke after joke.

Any watch after dark topics?

No, I just want to say that this is not.

Do you think this is a lighting change?

Let's see.

Yeah.

One of my favorite things about changing to watch after dark was that when we clipped

Mina last week from the show, like two of the clips are just normal clips.

And then one clip was lit like this.

But I don't think there was any explanation that it was different.

I would do very little context clues on this show.

That's true.

It's really, we don't hand hold like our favorite television shows.

No.

I just wanted to let you know that this week, is you for you premiering this coming weekend?

This coming weekend.

I wasn't kidding that I am ready to do this.

Like I am excited to enter into this show.

I'm re-arranging.

I'm doing re-watchables live in San Francisco this week.

Jesus.

And then next week, I'm happy to say I will be appearing at the Zacklow live show in Denver.

This is like the end of the Marin podcast.

I know.

Just for laughs, Providence.

You are doing the itinerary of an NL West.

The punchline fest in Topeka will, you know, be like incredible.

But I am going to make it work so that we can do you for you together.

I wouldn't miss it for the world.

I really appreciate that.

I just want you to know that if I enjoy this experience, I'm going to be insufferable

about this.

That I have finally figured out how to engage with television after 15 years.

Just do what I want.

Yeah.

Just chaos menu.

Well, for the purposes of this show, I don't know necessarily that that is always a bad

idea.

Like I have said, there have been a couple.

I would even say today is a little bit of a dead day in terms of like what's on the

docket news and shows.

I mean, like, I love the time talking to you, but unfamiliar and privileges are not

exactly like headlines succession.

And, you know, but would it make sense for us to just be like a turned on dark wind season

for?

I don't know what you guys are talking about.

It's good.

It's a great point because otherwise, you know what will happen?

We won't cover dark winds.

Yeah.

So, I don't know why I said that like a threat.

Sorry.

Anything else?

No, I'm excited about that.

I want to watch the drama.

What else do we have other big shows coming that we need to be checking for?

You have your document.

Chris is the keeper of the keys here in terms of what we ought to be covering.

So we got you four year coming up.

And then the family is the 16th.

That's next week.

And Margot's got money problems with David Kelly show.

Elf and Xpercent be very good beef season two.

Mm-hmm.

But then that's an Netflix situation.

So you're going to have to watch all of it to have anything to say about it.

There.

Would it was Bay?

I'm very excited about end of April.

That looks like it has to be our end.

The terror devil and silver, which I need you to fucking nut up and watch that with me.

Even though it's about I fucking need you dog.

I'll never ask anything of you again.

Just watch this amc anthology horror series.

I think it's more of a psychological thriller anyway.

I can do that.

Yeah.

I can handle that.

I'm not sure about that.

There is the devil and silver is the tagline.

Well, at least the devil is showing out.

Yeah.

Dressing up for the occasion.

I think this is relevant.

There was some literary news that I thought was going to be part of your rundown.

Maybe you covered it on Thursday.

That was some big Ben learner interviews.

No.

Like, miss me with that.

Do you not like Ben learner?

No, I'm not doing a drive-by of Ben learner.

I'm just like, my attitude towards contemporary fiction and Kaye could jump in because Kaye

keeps up with temporary books in a way that I don't.

I don't know if you do either.

Let me know in a couple years.

That's my attitude towards new novels.

Good.

A lot of old stuff that I still have to say.

What was the literary news that happened that you wanted to talk about?

Two television shows based on beloved literary properties are now moving.

One, the corrections is been announced as...

I can't believe that.

Yeah.

So Jefferson is writing and directing an adaptation of the...

For what I understand, Court is directing.

And Jonathan Franz and is adapting his own book.

Really?

That's for what I understand.

Yes.

And this has been long-gestating.

I'm sure...

It was optioned to be a film by Scott Rudin when the book was published 25, 26 years ago.

It was infamously an HBO pilot overseen by Noah Bombak that...

It's not somewhere a dusty shelf in Santa Monica.

Someone can see it.

That was 10 years ago.

And now it's happening.

A lot of whip producing, paramount producing, for Apple with Meryl Streep starring.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I have not.

Do you remember that my...

I was...

This is nothing to be proud of.

I want to preface this.

But I was checking for the corrections because my father took me to see Jonathan Franz

and read from his second novel, Strong Motion at the Downtown Borders because Jonathan

Franz and Franz first book, The 27th City, which I also read and enjoy.

Is it about St. Louis?

It's about St. Louis.

My dad's a cardinal fan.

I think Franz and his two, right?

Yes.

A hardcover copy of Strong Motion says,

Two Mike Go Cards.

And so I was like,

Ah, great American.

I see all of you.

Johnny come lately.

So now aware of the prosaic brilliance of the barred of the Midwest, Jonathan Franz.

I was there early.

Do you like...

Do you like doctrines?

I love the corrections.

And what was the one that he wrote?

Freedom.

Yeah.

And purity.

I kind of tapped out at that point.

Okay.

But he loves birds.

Never did friends.

You never did any friends.

Corrections.

It's nothing to...

About it.

Part of the corrections, one of the storylines is in Philadelphia and one of the characters

goes to French Central School.

There's a little Quaker School part of it.

And still you thought...

I did hear about that.

You heard about that.

There is a light within.com, The Quaker Backchannels, the...

You track?

Our Slouch Quaker School.

So that's one.

Uh-huh.

And then the other thing was the announcement that another...

This is like, it's kind of like, try again month in TV.

Bonfire the Vanities.

Did you see this?

Yes.

Uh, who's writing this?

It's Wild Your Guy.

Everyone's Guy, David Kelly.

Right.

Is writing it, Matt Reeves?

That's right.

Of the Batman fame is going to direct this.

And this is a would-be, if this goes forward, a huge, huge do-over to one of Hollywood's

most legendary flops.

Brian DePalma's adaptation of Tom Wolf's celebrated novel.

Yes.

Masters of the Universe.

Is it time...

Is it...

Is the time right to get the A.D.'s right?

I assume that this is going to be a period piece and not updated for 2008 or 2026.

Let's just see.

Because all the spycraft would be way too.

Uh, I'm excited about that.

You also didn't mention that, um, Lonesome Dub, right, the Lonesome Dub have been...

I know that purchase.

I was watching that.

With some interest.

Yeah.

And we do not have any creative attached to that yet.

Would you like to be a part of that package?

I'm putting together a small group of men with a particular set of skills.

Sure.

I'm just trying to...

Did you actually say, like, hey, just like, agents, like...

First of all, you've correctly captured the tone of my email voice.

Hey, agents.

Hey, team.

I love to go out and learn.

I heard some guys just spent $100 million and are looking for someone to adapt their

cowboy novel.

Well, I've read it.

I am full of protein and ready for service.

And I love unconditional sunlight.

And...

Jonathan Franzen.

I definitely have raised my hands and then someone stepped on the back of my neck to

take the ring.

I don't know who's involved with it creatively.

I just saw that the rights were purchased, which is the idea of having that another go

with that.

It's very exciting.

I saw also that they were talking about it in relationship to doing all of the Gus

and Woodrow close.

I think that's right.

And that would be pretty cool, although as we've discussed, some of those books are

darker than the others.

The thing about those books, which by the way, honestly speaking of contemporary novelists,

I just kind of want to read those again.

They were published, the order in which they were published chronologically of the story

is 3412, which is quite odd.

It's also the way I recommend people read them.

But Lonesome Dove is one of the greatest American novels of all time.

That's free, right?

Chronologically, but that was first and is perfect and you can just read that.

Streets of Laredo, the sequel, is so dark.

It is incredible.

It's mercury responding to the response to Lonesome Dove.

You think I wrote a classic?

Fuck you guys.

Also I forgot about trains and Mexicans.

I got you.

And then what's it called?

Dead man's whatever, the next one.

Dead man's walk.

Dead man's walk is unbelievable.

And that is the origins of...

Then as young Texas Rangers of Gus and...

And Camich meet Moon.

It's like a cool, like, adventure story.

You kind of spackles the distance from when they were young up to the edge of Lonesome

Dove.

I agree.

I think it would be cool if they did all of them.

I don't think there's any reason to do...

Hey, we're doing Lonesome Dove again because...

Right.

But if you were going to do it chronologically, that would be quite a long wait to get to

Lonesome Dove.

Well, you could just keep spackling on the old age.

Sure.

Just put Austin Butler in.

I couldn't.

Listen, I...

All I say, this was never real.

No one was going to let me do any of it.

But I was like...

Tommy Lee Jones actually is...

Well, this was like six years ago, but I was trying to convince people that Tommy Lee

Jones then was the age that...

That call is in streets of Lonesome.

So you could still do it, you could do it.

And also famously easy to work with.

Him and horses.

And I'd be like, hello!

I went to a Quaker school.

What did you do?

Oh, Harvard.

That's cool.

Is that a real horse?

Sir.

Why are we doing...

I like French mystery shows.

Taylor Sheridan shows.

Sheridan changed my ideas about masculinity.

He wrote the intro to the new...

I am aware of...

I am aware of brother.

I'm across that.

Okay.

A couple of people send that my way.

Andy, great to see you, dude.

Hey.

Let's figure out a way to podcast later this week.

I know that I'm on the road, but I want to do pit with you.

Okay.

Thanks to Kay and Kay.

Happy birthday to Kay.

Was there anything we didn't cover that we should have covered for your birthday, Kay?

How can we better...

Ooh, I would have loved to touch on the summer house drama just a little bit.

That's for after dark.

Can I say something, perhaps, unsurprising to get us going?

Sure.

I have no idea what anybody's talking about.

Okay.

Absolutely.

I saw there was some stuff about...

I got some insight information to you.

What do you got?

Great.

Not to share it on the podcast.

Were you saving it for Ringer...

Ringer dish?

What are you doing?

No, I just...

I'll tell Kay off.

That's the best birthday present you could possibly give me.

I just saw that everything was about Sierra.

But not Sierra.

Not Wilson and Sierra.

That's only one Sierra in my book.

One Sierra...

Oh, Sierra month.

It kind of is Sierra month now.

That would Sierra month.

Thanks everybody for listening and watching.

We'll be back on Thursday with the pit and some top chef and some whatever else.

Greenwald told it down while I'm in the bay.

Yeah, what do I have to do?

Nothing.

Just meet me here at 2pm when I get back from the bay.

Stress.

Okay, sure.

Talk to you guys soon.