‘Buffy the Vampire Slayer’ Season 4 Rewatch (Part 2)

Hello, welcome back to House of R. I'm Joanna Robinson. That is Mallory Rubin. It is season

four part two of Buffy and guess what? Giles has an acoustic guitar. I repeat Giles has

an acoustic guitar. Mallory Rubin, how you doing? To quote Buffy, you get fang. I'll get

horny. Oh my God, are you mentally prepared to talk about all of the horny Giles moments of the

back house season four? Yes, I am. Actually, guess what? We'll enumerate them all right after this.

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All right, so this is part two of season four of Buffy the Buffy Rewash continues to pace. I got

the predictable. She can only be herself text from Mallory Ruben last night where she was like,

sad. It's going to be over in a couple seasons. I mean, you still have like what, 60 episodes of

Buffy still to watch. So I think you'll be okay. But yeah, we're we're past the midway. This

we are. We're past the midway point. I mean, I'm pre grieving morning. Then you got a text

within 10 seconds of that one. That was like, maybe I'll just watch Angel season one next week.

She's like, maybe I'll just watch all of Angel because she's an absolute maniac.

Boy, when we did get mixed responses from our listeners about whether or not you should,

it didn't seem like there was a consensus. So as someone who's constantly anxious about your

work life balance, I don't think you should rewatch all of Buffy. But as we were talking last night,

it is, you know, as we'll get into some of the faith episodes in the back half of season four of

Buffy, the crossover stuff does start to feel a little bit more, um, honoris than it did at the

beginning of the season. So I understand why you're like, what have I missing? What happened?

Yeah. Buffy went to Los Angeles, etc. So yes, yes, I felt the, uh, the and previously on Angel.

Really activated my OCD in a major way. And of course, I had previously watched this entire

season in full, but sitting down to do the prep and revisiting the episodes. I was like, man,

and also we had just talked about it in the part one pod. Should I be dip it into Angel?

I still feel like just, and I consulted Carlos, you know, on whether he had just gone directly to

the relevant Angel episodes or watched it all. So I'm trying to get feedback from all parties.

Obviously you are my, my guide and all things Buffy and frankly all things life. And so I defer to

your wisdom. I felt that like, oh, my goodness, what am I missing? Will I be able to carry on and

appreciate this in full if I'm not also watching 22 episodes of Angel in parallel with every 22

episode Buffy season? But we'll see. We'll see what goes. I do think like, I do think you could get

through this season if you just wanted to watch the harsh light of day crossover, crossover,

the pangs crossover. And then there's like a basically what you could into it. There's a two-parter

faith arc on Angel that happens after the two-parter faith arc on season. So like, if you watch those

four episodes, I think that's all you need, but I feel like you're physically keeping that.

So, well, all right. So we're not going to talk about Angel necessarily, but we're here to talk about

the second half of Buffy. I've skipped the part where I tell you what else we're talking about

on this feed. I'll just do it right now. By the time the episode drops, we will have a recorded

we haven't really figured out what it is. An ode to Ball of Subtran.

Ball, the Sith Lord extraordinaire who hates a shirt and loves to sneer and monologue is a subject

of a new animated Star Wars show. And we will be just talking about him as a character why we love him.

This is our job and we love to do it. So that is what's happening. Also, as we've teased a couple

times, if we can not forget to remember to do it, we will be doing a memento podcast.

Sometimes soon, keep some of your stuff. We'll find it eventually. I've tattooed it somewhere

in my body, so don't worry about it. Anything else you want to tease that's upcoming or

or if not, how could folks keep track of everything we got going on?

I mean, the thing I'm most excited to tease that's upcoming is your move to Los Angeles,

which is Mayor Days Away. And I'm traveling up to the bay. You're coming down to LA. We're all

over the place where recording this before we recorded the ball pod that will have aired before

this. It's a it's a wild and wacky few days here in terms of timeline continuity, but I'm thrilled

to be to be with you and gazing into your eyes every day before long. I didn't remember how to get

my home recording set up going before this very podcast. That was a little mini adventure for all

of us. And you know, what else will we be pining about? Lots of stuff. So here's what I would recommend.

I'd recommend that everybody follow the pod. Follow House of R on Spotify or wherever you get your

podcasts. Listen to this. You can watch full video episodes of House of R on Spotify. Unbelievable.

You can also follow the Ring Reverse YouTube channel and watch our full video episodes there. You

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We have new House of R Instagram and TikTok handles at House of R pod. That's a delight. We're

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open. Hobbits and dragons at gmail.com. Send us your thoughts on our ongoing Christopher Nolan. Rewatch on

how much angel I should watch and when on buffies season five because those pods aren't going to be

far away. We're going to dive into that soon. So that's exciting. And all anything, everything.

So I got back to you in the studio. Not in the studio. If you're watching this on video, I think

I should say yeah, this is the, I mean, it's already slightly dismantled. But this is the last time

you'll see this set up behind me. This is it. This is farewell to chronologically. That's right.

I'll see it. We'll see it when we'll see it tomorrow. But chronologically, this last time will be

in this office. So thank you, Gray Walls. You did your best. And I'll be in the studio for the

most part. And less side that, you know, both of us get the plague again or something like that.

We get sick a lot. Well, definitely be recording from our respective homes occasionally. My question

is, will I still in your new setup be able to occasionally see bug come in behind you and roll

around on the floor? Good. That's all you better believe it. All right. What are we covering today?

We already mentioned some spoilers just in case this is helpful at all. Here's the spoiler warning.

We're talking about season four, episode 13, the I and team roll your eyes grown. It's the initiative

through episode 22, restless, a very strange and unusual season finale for Buffy, a kind of sort of

like very special episode of Buffy that's like tacked on to the end of the season is sort of what

restless feels like I'm excited to talk to you about that. So that is the I and team. Good by Iowa.

This year's girl, who are you superstar? Where the wild things are? Newman rising the Yoko factor

prime evil and restless so many two partners in this stretch here. It's very like Dr. Huy kind of

set up here. Anything else you want to say before we get to sort of our opening snapshot?

No, I'm excited to dive in. Let's do it. Buffy season four.

Okay, so something that we had talked about in our part one is I promised you I would get my ducks

in a row about sort of what the initial plan for the season was versus what we got because we both

agree that the initiative as a plot line is not really a stunner and sort of what happened

with the big bad and all of that this season. So there is the answer is there isn't like a clear

clear answer because there's some like conflicting reports but what Lindsey Krauss who played

Professor Maggie Walsh said on my pal Jenny and Kristen's podcast, buffering podcast only a couple

years ago was like contrary to popular belief, I did not ask to leave Buffy mid season. That was sort

of the story that went around for a while. Two weeks before I was killed off, Josh called me and was

like we're going to kill you off. So like that was she was like that was not my call to make. They

decided they didn't want me. Here's a Marty Noxon quote from I think around season six is when she

gave this quote to entertainment weekly. She said about Professor Maggie Walsh potentially being the

big bad season four. She said there were a lot of things that we were going to do and never did in

season four. Maggie was going to be much more of a mother figure for Riley, interesting to another

girl to lure him away from Buffy. We thought it would create some Shakespearean jealousy and then we

went, uh, forget it. But most of the changes throughout the series have had to do with actors coming

and going. We had a lot more planned for Seth Green, for example, but it's departure to do films

open the door for Tara, which is something we never expected. And there would have been far more

angel Buffy angst if he hadn't gotten his own show. So like, is that appealing to you this idea of

like Doug Peatry, another Buffy writer has said it was always their plan to have Adam Killmaggy. He

did not in that interview say when he was going to do that. So like if this sort of like Frankenstein's

monster, mother, son, dynamic, as parallel with Riley and Adam could have maybe gone through

the back half of the season and then Adam Killzer and it's still just like Adam V Buffy and

the combined forces at the end. That's a possibility. But like, there is no clear, clean, clean

answer available in sourceable quotes from people who worked on the show. There are plenty of theories

but nothing clean out. What, what does any of this, uh, these pseudo answers? What, what do they do for

you? Mallory. I don't know. It's interesting because like we, we started to get into in our season 4

part one pod last week. And I think is even more keenly felt in this back half of the season,

which is like very initiative. Adam Riley's crisis of faith about his role in the initiative.

Centric, I think that a lot of the like questions and themes and ideas are interesting. But the

execution leaves me wanting and I think there are like in season 4 across season 4, you know,

particularly in the in the first half on the college front when we're in like there's barely any

college in these 10 episodes. It's almost like incidental that they're at college, though there's

a very core thematic aspect to what does it mean to move from high school to college in terms of growing

apart from people that will come into play. Um, but it's really rooted around the initiative. And so

would certain tweaks like that on the timing front have made things more effective or impactful.

I think it's possible at the end of the day, I think that this is just like not as compelling as

the big bads who came before, whether that's like something, you know, as wonderful as the mayor

and everything that happens with faith or the master or of course, angel into angelic and spike

idrisilla. And you know, I think that the beginning of these episodes that we're talking about today,

something happens that is quite, I think emblematic of this, right? On the like this isn't

intriguing and interesting. Would it have been more effective over a different like if it had been

dispersed over a different period of time? I don't know. Buffy going like kind of all in on the

initiative and having these moments with Willow of like, wait, don't you think we should be asking

more questions? The giles don't you think we should be asking more questions? Especially because

part of what makes the end of season three such a absolute wall up in the best possible way is

graduation and more than one form. Buffy decided to leave the watchers council behind, right? Like

the idea that what Buffy is doing as the slayer, what the Scoobies are doing is a unit. The idea of

being a part of something larger is not the problem, but the idea of letting these kind of like

shadowy power figures tell you what to do is in conflict in some way with how Buffy lives,

which like we get to hear kind of brought to the fore again at the end and restless when Buffy

confronts the the first slayer and is like, I'm not alone actually, right? So I think there's

something so tantalizing about putting Buffy right back in a circumstances and part because she's

like, I'm interested in doing this with my my boyfriend, Riley and I get to like kick ass together

and we can be out there fighting demons together that's conceptually compelling. But I

when when Buffy was back there, I found myself so firmly rooted and again, it's like so quick that

it all falls apart and the calm cam like, I'm you know, you don't know what a slayer is moment is like

that happens really fast in these stretch of episodes. But when Willow is like, what's going on here?

I'm so firmly rooted in the Willow camp there that I don't think I would have wanted it to last

longer. I think it's actually I think it is interesting because like I think I've seen a lot of

people interpret Riley's again, if Riley were a more compelling character, this would be interesting.

But like Riley's journey through blind faith and an institution to this like, I'm an anarchist,

like reaction that he has later or whatever. As sort of like corn fed Iowa boy,

goes to college and sort of breaks from some religious indoctrination or something like that into

sort of questioning larger authorities, whether or not you want to see that as like,

overtly the church or something else. But just sort of like the idea of like, corn fed Iowa

used to existing inside of a system, goes to school in California and is like, whoa, has his mind

expanded. And the idea that like Buffy for a second is like, hey, maybe I'll join this church

with my boyfriend or something like that. Is inside of that institution always asking questions?

Willow and Jones are like, let's ask more questions in general. But once she went as soon as Buffy's

inside the door, she's asking questions that Riley and Forest and the rest of them in Graham have

like never asked, right? And she's the one who's like in that great shot of her sitting amidst all

of the commandos of their briefing in her pink culture that she's worn petroleum many times.

Like just like sticks out like a like a sort of it's a great visual. So I like those layers though,

of just sort of like, um, Buffy asking questions, but not asking the bigger picture,

see, even some of the bigger picture, picture questions that a that a willow and a jiles are asking.

And also, sorry, the last thing I'll say about this is like, so much of the emotional, yes,

yes, in theory, the emotional thrust of the final couple episodes are, Buffy's greatest

strength as a slayer is her friends is the fact that she's not one girl in all the world, but part

of a team and a family and they've explored that before, but this is even more overt,

et cetera, et cetera, like all of that is interesting. But a lot of the back half is about Riley's

emotional journey. Like it's it's Riley's choice and it's Riley's like agitation and disillusion

and all sorts of like that. And I'm just like, a not compelled by him and B, I want this show to be

about Buffy at the end of the day. So yeah, exactly. I think that that's that's that's the

the main crux from for me as well as like again, I like when Buffy feels human to me to to make

this big declaration about your life and then sort of be compelled back into another version of

that thing. I think that's that's human. That's normal. I agree with you that the speed and haste

with which Buffy wants inside those doors is like, what's going on here exactly feels right and

interesting. I don't think that Buffy leaving the watchers council at the end of season three

means that for the rest of time and perpetuity, she would never be or should never be interested

in like participating in a larger force. I think that the fact that so much of Buffy's storyline

in the back half of this season is tied up in Riley's journey. Adam and the initiative is just a

little bit less compelling because we're watching some really wonderful stuff, I think with

Anya and Xander and Willow and Tara and Jiles and they're in part because they're like a little

bit on the outside of that looking in. I do think that the like I've had some sort of a weakening

about the differences and and entwinements in like being a follower or being a leader and the way

that Buffy is then kind of imparting that wisdom and helping somebody else have the scales fall

off of their eyes from the through the wisdom that she has learned like not just because someone

else told her but from her first hand experience is interesting. Riley's just not an interesting

enough character to carry 10 episodes of that as a journey. I think like the overall connection and

this is obviously not just true with the back half of the season. This is true for Buffy writ large

in this part of what's so compelling about it, but this is like a very identity driven stretch

of story and I love that and I think again that's emblematic of like you have even something like

Jonathan's return obviously Jiles like what role do I have Willow and Tara spike you know could I

be a scubae do I want to be a faith coming back Buffy but then like Adam and Riley so much of

the way their stories are positioned Riley's crisis of faith and Adam like I am the one with

this awareness about what it means to be alive in a way that nobody else like possesses.

There's a version of that that would be like really I think scintillating this idea of being

pieced together from other bits of humanity and demons and machine and then what does that make you

would do with that insight like I am like some yeah some wise doubts on the myths there.

So I agree that like parts of it conceptually as we start from the beginning.

Conceptually this is interesting Adam is such a stiltifyingly dull character in my view that even

when you pair him with spike towards the end of the season it doesn't even like they put him with

the biggest charisma bomb they had in the cast and it's still just like another Adam story.

One other thing I want to say and we got we got some emails and some comments about this is like

there's a there's a room or strong room or a fan theory that the character of Sunday who we meet

in the first episode was initially their idea was to make her a slayer who had been turned into a

vampire a slay pyre and have her as like a longer antagonist for Buffy and then scrap that.

There is no concrete sourcing I can find for that at all like there have been podcasters who

have said on their podcast well Joss Weedon said and then people report that as fact but they do

not have quotes from Joss and so just sort of like there are no quotes about this but as people

are chewing this idea over there like it could be that people thought that was you know if that was

an idea they had and again I have no confirmation it was but if that was an idea they had

is that an idea that's too close to faith like right off the back of faith to be like another sort of

slayer slayer be slayer idea. Something I will say it's not about the slay pyre concept but like I

can see the germs of a later really well done big bad in the Sunday character so I think it's

possible that like with Sunday they were like there's something here about this sort of like

girly energy versus girly energy that we haven't really you know because it's just sort of like

Buffy's girly energy versus like big bad men and all this sort of like that so it's sort of like

what if it's like Buffy facing off again someone who's like a little bit more her coated what would

that look like that's something that the show will explore so I you know something is interesting

okay um you mentioned what's interesting going on elsewhere around the initiative and Adam and

you mentioned Zander and Onyan I just you know we had briefly touched upon this in part one this

idea of like I think this might be Zander's best series see and overall I'm not going to ask you

to comment on that because obviously you haven't seen five six seven yet but right I do and I was

trying to figure out why I think that is and I think uh yeah there's a couple things at play here

first of all being paired with Onyan Emma coffee old which is not you know unique to the season but

like being paired with Emma coffee old as a scene partner is going to just sort of like boost

anyone's curating in my view like it's just like it's so good she's so good with everyone when

they put her and spike together oh my god in this background this season you're just sort of like

electric we're living right yeah um so there's that there's also like the toxic Zander I hate angel

with such a like toxic male at fiery passion passion stuff is largely absent from the season except

it comes roaring back in the Yoko factor in a way that I'm just sort of like oh right this is the

Zander I don't like when the premise of that entire episode the Yoko factor is spike is sewing

seeds of discord among the Scoobies except he doesn't even have to do it with the Riley Buffy

thing because Zander got there first and Zander just did it on his own without being part of the villain

plot so just sort of like yeah that's the Zander stuff that was like really present in the first three

seasons that is not here for most of the season um and that is like uh is is really refreshing so I

like I just think that like they figured out that there's a lot that didn't figure out was

as you mentioned he and Giles are both like who am I if I'm not a watcher who am I if I'm not

a classmate of a Willow and Buffy Willow saying who am I if I'm not straight you know

Riley saying who am I if I'm not a member of the initiative all that sort of like who am I without

this larger definition to me spike who am I if I'm not able to suck blood etc um yeah

but with Zander there's something like temperamentally that I think they really figured out

this season what any any thoughts without being able to comment on on five six seven that you want to

add here I just yeah I love this Zander season I I really agree I think it's like

so compelling in the highs and the lows I think he feels simultaneously very like assured as a

character an insecure as a person which is a great combo you know and the ways in which he

is like navigating his own anxiety about his place in the world feels I think very true to

the Zander Harris that we have spent time with and also to just like maybe how you would be

navigating that phase of your life if you went from high school into what should be the

college years and your friends go off not only to college but to college together and you're not

there but you're close enough to be reminded every minute of every day that you're not there

and you actually have this like pretty amazingly compelling relationship with this

smoke show who's obsessed with you but you're also like

constantly having to remind her and blame you of other people like this is a private moment and

this is like you know et cetera it's just it's such a great blend of you know that classic

Xander mix of human of the humanity the humor the heart all of it I think that's a vulnerability

that we see from Xander and like I think the moments in the prior seasons where he really made

big mistakes in air and behaved badly like I you know as we talked about on those pods was often

disappointed by him or frustrated but also like had a enough of a germ of understanding of like

how he could be moved to behave that way I think in this stretch like you know something like after

spike is has has worked his manipulation right it has accepted all of them and we see the way that

each of them responds to that and Xander's just like it's just to be bold over like unable to get

out of bed because he's like these people like who are the most important thing in the world

we don't need me you know I thought it was like and then Anya coming in in that sequence and like

she is I basically couldn't keep you know we have an Anya category again today and I was like it's

going to be hard to keep this like under 20 candidates like it's just such an incredible stretch of

episodes from her the she's hysterical she she kills me like every time I'm just calculating so much

my ribs hurt she's smart she's sharp she's sexy she's blunt she's direct all of it the the

depth of like love and comfort in that moment when she's just like you know you're a good person

and a good boyfriend and I'm in love with you like what they think of you shouldn't matter and of

course it matters more than anything in the world because they're the closest people to him but it's

just I don't know it felt like such an authentic evolution of a relationship for them so I really

really love that but then it's like still Xander so you go into the dreamscapes of restless and he's like

joys joys to follow

tear on willow or hook it up in the back of my ice cream truck like it's just the full Xander

experience but really well calibrated so I quite enjoyed it yeah I love also I love that seat like

when she yeah snuggles him and says like you're a good boyfriend I love you but also that it opens

with her just like lifting up the quilt and like the eyebrow race when she sees his his dick under

the cover and she's like you know you can't go down to the unemployment office like that they

won't even interview you if you're naked like she's just she's perfect all this amazing I love her

all right I want to do a quick Tara check in with you okay I mentioned sort of off-handedly

on the pod last week that I'm not a huge tariff fan this really seemed to perturb people and I

understand why because the vent diagram of Joanna's interests of like which stuff go and like

queer representation like Tara's smack dab at the center of it plus you know Miss Kiddy Fentastico

is here you know there's a cat involved like you know it should be very much my shit and I will say

when I first watched the show and I think largely because there was just so little representation

for queer couples in this way I was really into the willow and Tara stuff I think you know there's

a part of me that would always feel a little um touchy about it because I love Oz so much and I

really don't like you know and and because I didn't watch season four live it was like Oz is just

gone and I had to like go back and figure out why so like that's that's a whole thing but

I think letting people know that in 2000 when the Tara and willow stuff is kicking off

there was so little representation and even though Tara and willow are here on this and

unequivocally a couple that is the text of the show yeah we don't get to see them kissing we see

them say I love you before we see them kiss because the network said they couldn't kiss right so

you've got these like you've got the the sex spells essentially or you've got the like cutaway

and Sanders dream but like yeah right or going out the candle yeah yeah kind of yeah but these

characters are not allowed to kiss on television that's how like that's how groundbreaking this

storyline was right you have my so-called life Ryan philope on the soaps you've got Jack on Dawson's

Creek you know like but this is just like fair you know especially for women like this is this

is just like a huge so like in that way Tara and willow will always be hugely important for me in terms

of what I did for television um and Tara as this sort of like shy stuttering character I do think

is interesting I think Amber Benson's like a very compelling link beautiful uh person I just don't

know that I think she's acting at the caliber of everyone around her and again you know you're

just meeting her yet we'll have see you know some more time uh to dig into Tara but um what are

your first impressions how are you how are you feeling about her uh I'm a big fan so far I know

it's it's one season for me I don't actually don't know how long Tara will be around you know as

we've mentioned before prior pods there some things I do know about the future of the show and

and certain characters and much that is undiscovered country for me so um I don't know how how long

Tara will be around but I hope it's for a while and I'm really enjoying uh the Tara Willow

relationship and their respective journeys of discovery and just like there's such a tenderness

uh in with with Tara as a character and inside of that relationship but I'm so invested in Willow

that I think like what she is learning about herself and the way that she is um you know learning

to understand and I will it'll come up in another category so I uh when we get to our superlatives

say so I won't step on it here but like one of the the moments that I loved so much in these

episodes is in Oz's return in new moon rising when there are a number of great Willow Tara

conversations in that episode but one of the ones that just hit me so hard was Tara saying like

you know I I know I know what Oz means to you and Willow is like how can you and I don't you know

and so I just found all of that like very powerful and moving um Tara is I think that all of the

aspects of her character that I've seen so far the the sort of like gentleness and the quiet there's

something about the way she encourages Willow and her magic that they encourage each other that

is very like empowering and just nurturing and I love that as something an aeromatic partner and

a friend and someone you're pursuing like a uh a pursuit a pursuit with pursuing a pursuit professional

podcaster here folks um science of port dance science um the way in the the wick a group meeting with

the other students that not only right away we we feel that synchronicity between Willow and Tara

as people who are um connected to this magic and to the idea of of um being a witch in the role of

magic in their lives that is distinct from the other people who show up for some completely like

uh uh lesser reason maybe the the social hang or the kind of like whatever but

beyond just that connection that affordions right away between the two of them I loved what it

told us about Tara you know the way that the kind of like mean girl in the group is like did you

have something to say and then Tara recedes and a shy and so it shows as the shyness but more than

that and this is about like her magic is a witch you know you mentioned the the the stutter her

sexuality and navigating that you you wonder right away like how many times and how many moments

in Tara's life here at Sunnydale but in all the years before has she been surrounded by a group of

people who don't see her clearly and accept her for who she is or embrace her for who she is so

I just feel very tenderly toward her and like I thought that the kind of graciousness and generosity

with which she navigated Oz's return was like pretty amazing and then not a lot of people on the show

and uh any walk of life would have been able to um be that giving to another person so I'm a fan

so far I'm excited to see and of course she's a cat lover so you know harrowing for me to confront

that Willow was like team team dog I love dogs I love all animals but then wonderful to see how

quickly Willow was just absolutely captivated by the cat um so yeah I'm a fan I I feel protective of

Tara and of their relationship and I'm excited to see where it goes um any theories or or you

know there's a few hints of something else going on with Tara this season any any theories

cooking around that yeah so I was going to ask you about there's the like this this kind of

sabotaging of the spell moment which when I watched the first time season four I was like wait

did I miss when they close the loop on that and then when I rewatched it I was like I don't believe

we got clarity on that at least inside of this season so sometimes especially in like a 22

episode season of a show things happen and maybe they're they've made open loops but that struck me

as something that we will return to at a certain point so because that's early in their relationship

initially on my first watch I was like should I be on my guard with Tara but then that very quickly

faded as a question or concern for me it just didn't seem like Tara was being presented in any way

outside of that one moment of putting the the dust under under her bed um like a character we should

be doubting and somebody who might be positioned just having like a impure intention so could I be

wrong maybe but I don't think it's setting up like some sort of Tara is actually bad reveal

what struck me as more likely especially in a rewatch having spent more time with Tara

um is like either that something about the specifics of the spell they're working in that moment

looking for the demonic energy like made her nervous that she had a specific concern about the power

of that spell I don't know why that would be but that seems like a possibility and then I guess the

other option would be just more broadly that there was some anxiety about like losing Willow or

wanting to basically like draw out the period of time that Willow would need to be

going there to do that magic and spend time with her so those were the things that occurred to me

but yeah is this something that we will be getting an answer to eventually yeah okay great yeah

there's a lot of uh once you know what they are I think in restless especially there's just like

a lot of seeds that are planted for future storylines and so how many of them have to do with the

cheese slice guy oh the cheese man we could be more important than the cheese man you know what I mean

while um all right the characters that linger I just so I just want to talk about the way in which

they like continually use characters in a way that I you know we get faith comes back for a two

parter Jonathan's here and he gets his own episode um on you being bumped up from from you know

from season three into season four spike coming back from like a big bad into recycling you know

cycling into becoming a main character in the show um or things like bringing the mayor back for

you know the spike two parter or or or the faith two parter or um prison Snyder shows up in

restless you know what I mean like we're just credible yeah we're you know a harmony's here we're

using all parts of the universe to make it feel like a a tapestry it's it's always exciting I think

when those characters come back and I'm curious a lot for for spike for on you for faith for Jonathan

this is all part of like at different speeds uh something like a redemption uh our growth arc for

all of them yeah uh big picture I know we have a whole faith category that we will get into when

we get into our superlates a big picture bringing faith back what did you think how did that how

did that work for you I'm thrilled of my life I mean again the highs in the season are really high

like I love these faith episodes I think that um clearly there's some more material waiting for me

there in angel so I'm excited about that again this is like this falls into the like I don't know

bucket I don't know how much more faith is ahead of me either in buffy or an angel but I thought

that this was really smart and not only do we have a faith category coming in our superlatives but

I have faith reflected in a other categories as well in the superlatives it was just a pretty powerful

showing across those two episodes so I'll try not to to just hit everything that we're going to

talk about later but I thought it was just really like tight and efficient and smart and well done

we get the you know harlot lipstick like the faith in buffy's body flirting with spike and

ton teasing spike at the bronze like no doubt we both have that coming in our categories today

which seems impossible that we wouldn't um the bathtub scene the mirror sequence and these are

you know moments performed in those cases by Sarah but it's faith is a character so that's like

brilliant you know we talked so much across our season three pods about and and even previously

you know we're more than one additional slayer now like what is that other slayer telling us about

the idea of the slayer but also about buffy and what is it what are they telling buffy about

herself there was something to me about bringing faith back this eight month coma and it's like oh

that stuff didn't go away that just felt to me like really representative of the confidence that

this show has and its intention like there's a version of it where faith returns and buffy and faith

are like we really let things get out of hand let's find a way to move past this and like maybe in

the future of their shared story that will happen and they would reconcile I think that would be

very interesting if there's a path to that but the fact that it wasn't neat and tidy and easy like

faith comes back and she wants revenge and she has been tormented in her dreams by you know drops

of blood on the floor and then looking down and there's a knife in the gut right so like you know

the snake on the picnic like it with the mayor like I thought that faith watching the tape from

the mayor was even though he was saying things it was a great return to the mayor experience where

he was saying things that are like if you stop and pause and think about them and break them down

so fucked up like making faith think that she has no place in the world without him but also I was

like I'm like really I'm watching that's the perfect mayor cocktail right like yeah

Harry grunting as the mayor is like again it's just like impeccable to me every time but that

intoxicating blend of just sort of like I I mean I have it I have that in my emotion most emotional

moment category it was like super weird but it's just like I got so emotional watching her watch that

watching her like smile at his dumb dad jokes like all that sort of stuff like that and then like

yeah and then he's just saying the most toxic shit to her when he's just sort of like without me

your days are numbered and that's just it baby girl like you're nothing without me like it's

horrible but also just like you want comfort for faith I still want still always rooting for faith

and so and you know and then this body swap storyline which is like you know something that

you know every genre show wants to do but like this walk a mile in your skin idea like this is

largely a sort of like faith as portrayed by Sarah Michelle Geller experience and it's a knockout

experience unbelievable but Buffy is portrayed by Eliza Dushku the way when the watchers like spit

in her face and call her it and all this sort of stuff like that like what that is forcing Buffy

to confront about what is the experience of just being a faith in in the world you know what I mean

it's it is much more about the movement that happens for faith as a character over the over the

character of those episodes but there is some there is some movement there as there should be

in a body swap episode for Buffy as well and I do I think this is like

this one they might be my other than like hush you know I love something blue and I love some

other stuff but like in terms of like the show what it's best when it's just like hitting emotionally

psychologically inside of a genre concept I think I think this two-parter is is the highlight of

the season for me so yeah really excellent I loved it yeah uh followed quickly by superstar with

Jonathan which is another like incredibly executed genre storyline really good and like when

you think about Jonathan like when when you watch that episode and they they had so much fun with

the with the credits of both who are you and superstar were there like Eliza Dushku as Buffy

in the credits for who are you and then inserting images of Jonathan in the opening credits for

superstar is so funny his slow walk towards the camera is just like absolutely iconic but that puts

but that puts Jonathan in the Buffy role inside of those credits and so you think about like

faith in her ever since we met her like desire to be Buffy and away her hatred for Buffy and

her desire to be Buffy in a way Jonathan wanting to be Buffy Kathy wanting to be Buffy the

beginning of this season uh professor Walsh in like I want to be Riley's number one girl wanting to

be Buffy in a way forest and I want to be Riley's number one girl in a way wanting to be Buffy like

all these people wanting to be Buffy being like this ongoing theme of the season I I think it's

really interesting and then like Buffy spending so much of the season not being herself whether it's like

under a spell and something blue or captivated by a sex spell and where the wild things are or you know

in this faith uh two-parter I just think it's like really again such interesting concept this season so

so patchily executed but this question of identity which we which we hammered a lot in season three

as this idea of foils like who are these reflections of all these people and it's a little less

that even though faith is back and faith is the ultimate foil for for Buffy but it's just a little

bit more like how do you define yourself in this bigger world when you leave high school and you

know who you are your Buffy the vampire slayer and you are high school student by day and a slayer

by night and your boyfriend's a vampire and you understand that's your role and then all that

stuff goes away faith comes back and she's like angels don't even care anymore what are we incredible

while doing you know um I I just think all of that stuff though messily executed is really

interesting and so even something is like dumb and seemingly one office superstar which is like a

surprisingly consequential episode when like Jonathan's the one who figures out Adam's power source

and that's like the answer at the end of the season uh to a certain degree or Jonathan's the one

who fixes Riley and Buffy's relationship and in theory if I cared about that that would be consequential

so like there are consequential things that happen inside of this sort of like in other scenes of

Buffy would be like a one-off episode that is disconnected totally disconnected from anything that's

happening in the larger sense of the plot yeah um I just really I love it what did you what did you

think of of Jonathan's return here um so often when we're watching these episodes because what you've

seen them a million times and I'm watching them for the first time and the second time I'm texting you

a lot of screenshots of my TV there were just a lot of pictures of my TV um very frequently their

pictures of giles but other things as well and so you typically know because of the text I've sent

you where I am in the season and I sent you some stuff I was sending you some many things from the

faith episodes and then I sent you something from the where the wild things are and you were like

you didn't text me the Jonathan episode like I can't believe you didn't send me anything from the

Jonathan episode and I was like I just I couldn't find like a photo to stand in

I was no way to isolate a moment um and then you immediately responded with

the shot from the credits uh of him walking toward the camera but I want I'm inclined to say that

like nothing could have prepared me for the superstar Jonathan episode except for the fact that

many months ago you introduced a John and Katakoye and the superlatives that always indicated that

many surprises awaited me in the future um I was sort of hoping that like your shot had had told you

that like that was why or or class protector like that you've been like that you would be like oh

that's why she was hammering Jonathan and then you would be blindsided by superstar but you're too

smart for that and I can never pull whatever on you so that's okay so the hardly I think it was

interesting as a Jonathan episode it's interesting because of the I I want to return to what you

were just saying about um the other people who want to be near like buffy because I think that's

such a a student um essential observation I think this idea of like alternate realities across

this stretch of episodes was really interesting too and like of course that connects to this larger

examination of identity part of like the question of who am I is what is my role in the world and so

if the shape of the world changes now this has been something that buffy has played with many other

times before right like vampire willow is that in our lives for a reason so it's certainly not the

first time but an alternate reality in which Jonathan is perfect and good at everything and the

driver behind all of the moments that um protect and save humanity is a version of that but like the

um the the the alternate realities in their dreams in restless like also give us a sense of a shape

of a different thing and we parse that in that dream lens for like meaning and clues about what

might await so I just like when the show uh finds a way through the plot you know a mechanic of a

given episode to tell us something about how people see themselves and how the world around them

sees them um I really love what you're saying about all the people in the season who like want to be

buffy for two for two reasons like one I think it's really interesting that all of those examples

that you gave like there's something different in it for each of them you know Riley for example like

he is I mean he has his insecurities of course right we talked about that a little bit last pod but

he really looks to buffy as he is losing his grasp on like his sense of certainty and says

you understand what you're fighting for and why like I envy that you know that's that's giving

us something different from Kathy who is like I would I do plan to drop some blood down your throat

and put a scorpion on you and to mentor suck your soul out of you so that I can could um run away

from my demon dad and go to college school but it's all all those different versions of it are

playing out against the people who know buffy best and who have admired her the longest

feeling further away from her than ever before as everyone else is trying to get closer and get

a piece of her like I was so struck by you know again we'll talk the we'll talk about the distance

of the group many times today but I was so struck in particular by the conversation between

Tara and Willow about like rooms for sophomore year and because there was just something almost so

routine about the way Willow said like you know I kind of always thought the buffy and I would like

live together forever and now like we barely even see each other at all so there's like this kind of

chase of and desire for proximity from other people as there's a very like organic and natural

and sad um distance and separation from the people who have been closest for the longest so

that felt again even in it in it in just a classic buffy way the heightened supernatural circumstance

like a very a rendering of something very true to life I love that that's a great observation

and I think what I love I love that conversation that sort of like I thought buffy and I were

gonna like you know live together until um and in that moment buffy is like missing Willow she

goes back to her room and Willow's not there and she you know she would love to talk to Willow but like

and then of course they have their sort of like repelling down the elevator shafts

reunion moment which is really really good last but at least before we get into our superlatives

I want to talk to you about these of dreams and this stretch of the show this has always been

something that the show is engaged with in terms of like buffy and her prophetic dreams we got

some of the beginning of the season but here we get a bunch of dreams for faith right this is our

this is how we're spending time with faith while she's still in her coma in a weird derelict

abandoned floor of the hospital that I don't understand yeah um and so in in this year's girl we get

you mentioned it the snake mayor the mayor of the pit of pit people get buffy is this sort of like

relentless terminator uh villain character inside of her dreams uh faith in her in like a

in like a pink slip skirt like something that she would never wear she's dressed in like buffy drag

essentially um crawling her way out of the grave going full-shot shank redemption in the rain

it's sort of like rebirth moment um but but we go you know when we start we have buffy and faith making

the bed together and we're back into end of season three riddle territory are these riddles fun for

you or are they annoying for you uh given that you don't know exactly what they're talking about

here so um I always think the riddles are fun I always like a dream riddle I think that's interesting

in general I the season three like little muffet stuff I I guess maybe it's connected to this though

I still don't know that for sure this time the um the this year's girl faith and buffy making the

bed stretch and left faith saying little sis coming I know so much to uh do before she gets here

and then later in restless in buffies uh turn through the the dream escape seeing Tara there

and Tara saying you think you know what's to come what you are you haven't even begun I need to go

find the others be back before dawn without spoiling people anything for people who are watching

in real time with us have not started season five which again I have not started season five

I do know the dawn is a character I know it's coming to the show I don't know if you knew that

but I so I know these are about I know enough to know these are about dawn yeah I don't really

know enough to understand how dawn's uh introduction to the story will be like explain I don't know

I don't know the details so um I kind of have a sense of of the role dawn occupies the story but not

the particulars yet so it's all it's all dawn stuff and what's really fun so dawn I think it's okay

to say dawn it that character starts in the next season so like we're right around the corner um but

knowing that yeah and knowing that was always the plan that's what the season three stuff is about

so like all the way back in season three they're planting this seed for season five in turn including

then like the number of days that they're counting down at the end of season three are like the number

of days until that character shows up in season five and that's just like fun nice cool anyway so

you know about dawn I was just trying to be I did a detective of you in case you didn't but I

appreciate it I'll reveal later when we get to certain key episodes how I know some things about

dawn but also just in a totally spoiler freeway um like I've told you before I'm watching these on

hulu and you know I have an apple TV so you know on the main like apple TV tile one of the tiles

is just buffy and dawn so I'm like seems like this is probably a pretty big deal cool um all right well

that's that I do think I will say you think you know what's to come what you are you haven't begun

I think about that all the time so it's like the way that Amber Benson delivers that you think you

know what's to come what you are um and then also very intriguing death is your gift uh as also a part

of of restless I think about it also like the way she says it inside of that episode so um yeah

dreams they matter here we go all right anything else you want to say before we get into our

superlid is it really used to cover a bunch of other stuff obviously no I think I'm ready for a

cat course here we go all right we're gonna start with favorite line I have a clip for this one

so if you don't mind I will go first please right you can't just go lebrum incendiary and expect

sounded unspeaked Latin in front of the books

I know I said last time that I was I was distinguishing between funniest line and favorite line but

zander don't speak Latin in front of the books is one of my favorite buffy lines all time so I

I really wanted to put it here so there we go um that was my pick as well

I have as usual a couple of rudder stuff but I I was like into this is a perfect television moment

it was just so great and you know like we said a lot last pod I just think that the

not only was this a really good season for zander for spike four giles but the interplay between

those three characters was yeah they're absolutely wonderful they're they're interaction in the

faith two partner when they like meet in the alleyway alleyway and credible it's just really good

stuff uh dumb yeah that was great uh what are some of your right yeah some runners up okay um

I already mentioned this but when buffy says to wash in episode 13 if you think that's enough to

kill me you really don't know what a slayer is trust me when I say you're gonna find out badass

just great stuff um this is a good example of like this definitely could have gone in a number

of other categories including hornyest and funniest but in episode 15 when zander's trying to

fix the initiative flaster he's like it's called a blaster will or the discourages experimentation

now if it were called the orgasminator i'd be the first to try your basic button press approach

that was killed me great stuff really good um i love in where the wild things are when this is

another zander one when ania shows up at the party with spike and zander says we had a little fight

that just means that we have to work our way through some stuff it doesn't mean that we rebound

with the evil undead like incredible zander line and delivery so good he says by the way having

just hit on a woman at that party just you know zander look at the bear um yeah just

found himself flirting in real time and not really knowing how to navigate it i was proud of him when

he only went for the peck on the cheek during spin the bottle though you know yeah um and then

some of the lines you just mentioned from restless are in the source of course um i want to

hit you with a spike a spike line that could go in funniest as well but i do think i've got a

cousin married to a girdetary regurgitating from love team and that's got better instincts than

you anytime that spike makes fun of buffy's like dating life is pretty phenomenal so yeah it's

incredible stuff yeah i absolutely love it um i think so of all the buffy confronting the first

slayer moments the line because there are some really good ones in that stretch and restless the

line that i loved the most and felt most like buffy to me not not even the character of the show

but also the character is i'm not alone the slayer does not walk in this world and then buffy says

i walk i talk i shop i sneeze like that's just very buffy that's just perfect it's true you got

it i love to that yeah all right best villain of the week who are you going with here so feith does

not count right faith is a count beyond yeah okay john it then i guess could count this is a tough one

john think account um i don't want to give it to collins whether being spith the uh the that's

what i'm gonna go with the letter jacketed uh members of the uh the count that to count

yeah in in 16 who are you the washer council goons returning to hold faith you know it was

is really buffy captive because it's like i think because the the pickets were a little more

slim now since this is such a like prime villain centric stretch of episodes with adam in the

initiative and like you know kernel mac america coming in and then like our share figures that are

remit the end being like burn it down on some earth you know it was

well stupid my god um that was tough that was a real indictment of the initiative plotline

at the end there but yeah like some the return of the watchers council in such a nakedly nefarious

capacity was like not that i think we had any doubts about buffy's decision or giles's decision

but there was something that was just so um a clear but it also felt like it felt like a way to

sort of like try to rebrand the watchers council when it's like yeah that's true quentin

travers versus like um there and there like leather jackets and like you know collins especially

is just sort of the wet white you know it's just like i'm like okay so watchers but they're cool now

i guess uh and i should say this trio also crosses over to the faith uh angel um

arc i'll stop talking about that so you'll watch it tough tough when when um you know

the the like chokehold move yeah to try to get out of the the brinks truck and the other two are like

we yeah we get our affairs in order before we head out on a job yeah sorry tough tough look for

for Smith i believe that's Smith there okay um and i was like you know like as much as i love seeing

the mayor come back or snider as curl curts in zander's dream or whatever like uh or politics

you prefer um it it just really highlights how shitty the initiative is in in comparison so yeah

um all right best fit what do you have here okay um

hmm let's see i think i will go with a couple buffy fits here from episode 14 good by iowa the

yummy sushi pajamas the big speech in the yummy sushi pajamas correct that's on my list

do you know what i told you that um the buffering listeners sent me like a care package when i was

uh i when i was surgery last year and in in the care package was a yummy sushi blanket like it's a

like a fleece blanket that has the yummy sushi pattern on it so that's very sweet

how do i feel that's really nice yeah what a cherished possession i guess the cats love it i'll

tell you the cats love sleeping on the yummy sushi blanket um all right what else you have

uh i liked when buffy and zander are attempting to infiltrate the initiative and buffy is dressed up

like the scientist so she's got you know she at first she's still she's gonna put the lap coat on

she's like holding it in the bundle yeah she's got the hair pulled back the glasses the turtle neck

it's just very profish yeah thought it looked great that's a contender um you know i can't get

through a best fit category without mentioning something that jiles did that looked hot obviously

always no shortage of contenders but jiles um in primeval episode 21 when buffy has sort of

pieced together what spike spike is doing to the group as she calls them all calls all the scoobies

to campus to meet and we've previously seen jiles you know open the door in his bathroom which i

will be returning to in another category but he comes to campus and he's in jeans a sweater with a

little bit of like he knows we're rocking all handlies have the handling poking out from under it

coffee cup in hand mini mullet just peak on trend the earring isn't and he looks fucking great

um here's my question for you is do you have because we have you know best fit and worst fit do you

have the glimpse of jiles as the director of the student production of the salesman

yeah in best or worse i've got a quick compelling he's got the ask on he's learning like a blouse

in a card again there's a part in his hair which is new and no glasses uh looked wonderful i thought

that was very memorable and then of course willow in the ice cream chalk uh zander dream in the kind

of like sexy oh yeah and silk like shawl the bound the les the notes the what cows which

cow's he's bound uh lesbian gear yeah okay listen johnathan in his turnal neck and leather coat

i think it's a great look i think he looks fantastic uh he's just he's going full neo it's very

memorable fantastic um all of the buff buffy in faith clothing stuff the cleavagey's let bomb

buffy era stuff is incredibly good i think uh the yummy sushi pajamas also the buffy white crochet

top that she's wearing right after faith leaves her body it's a very like still sexy but in a

buffy way kind of look that i think really works really well and then she's wearing a long camel

leather trench like i don't know what yeah buffy's leather allowance is like from joys or whatever but like

she uses it to keep herself in in in coats galore and the and the long camel leather trench that looks

extremely expensive uh while she's walking through but she pairs it with like such a two thousand

like super chunky white like beanie uh nit beanie on top uh a confusing look but the leather

trench is very very good so yeah i love it uh speaking of things that buffy wears in her hair uh worst fit

dear god what were we wearing yeah is it the dumb little scarf bandana that becomes Riley's

most treasured possession uh is that your picture or something else here this is a two way tie

between that and something that i sent you a lot of photos of over the weekend that we'll talk

about in a second but yes the now buffy can pull off basically anything but there's something

about the combo with the the bandana and the leather jacket and everything which is out in the

field but specifically taking the bandana used and filled the after a hard day of work

out of her hair and wrapping Riley's open hand went away then then i almost don't know how

anything else could be a candidate for worst fit except that this is a stretch of episodes that

gave us in episode 15 sander and willow next to each other on the couch and sander's basement

sander is in a rust orange polo and this like striped tan vest it's just a very like of the moment

memorable and then willow is in this astonishing like even for willow yeah colored patch hat thing

and the choker necklace very of the moment again in this coat and they just it's wild

it's wild it's like a clown car has erupted on that on that sofa um bad i also said like buffies

spangled halter and the i in team uh like yeah she can patrol in a halter if you want there's just this

like interesting i don't know pinkification of eastern fashion thing that we did so like buffies

halter is very sort of like uh like indian like coated in uh similarly tara is wearing this like

pink sorry sort of combo number in restless and then also one point tara is just straight up

wearing an obi like around her her waist when she like the the willow tara witch fashions i just have

a lot of questions in general honestly uh so it's confusing clashing patterns go lower for them

constantly the number of odd skirts that tara will wear of the course of her run on the show i just

i need to start making a list of them they're baffling to me yeah are you looking for support in

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on yes most hilariously blunt and or horny moment we both have clips for this because on you

is a legend malice start with your clip sad afraid of being without you and a little hungry

meant about the house oh still I I just could not love on you more she is the best that's from

episode 18 where the wild things are where just in that episode I think there are like five

maybe ten contenders for it's a great idea category it's just unbelievable I mean this is where she's

like you know she's upset they didn't have sex last night in zander since they've gone

other nights without sex and she says I know twice I can't believe we're breaking up

incredible just like we didn't have sex if that's what you mean that's all I do now not have sex

like unbelievable um you mentioned you know later when she looks lifts the covers does the

oh appreciative look at us at his dick here this is what she says I've just tried to tell you that

we have nothing in common besides both of us liking your penis and now I don't even have that

incredible but that moment when they go back to the house to try to get back in and zander asks

because it's on the heels of all of those moments it's a tense moment in their relationship right

what are you feeling because the house is possessed right and he wants to know what they are about

to confront as they breach the threshold and she responds with sad afraid of being without you

in a little hungry he says I've meant to bat the house and she says oh still haunted and I just

think it's absolutely perfect so a lot of other contenders from other episodes but that that's my

that's my winner what what's your what's your clip what's your winner uh Carlos did play my clip please

you're not going away why aren't you going away well I was kind of hoping to look at

some of zander stuff oh sure come on in make yourself at home and so on um incredible that's from

superstar that whole scene where audience is trying to read a book and buffy is trying to investigate

it is really funny um on you just like doesn't like but doesn't really care for buffy or willow

which is zander will just straight up say a little later on uh uh you know and I just love that

I just love that she's just like I don't really like you guys like I love zander and you guys

are also here what's all the fuss yeah yeah um incredible and that same stretch and superstar when

on yet stinks the buffy uh is feeling insecure and it's a pep talk and she's like oh book up you you

kill the best yeah you the entire shrimp runner and superstar when she's talking about all

shrimp reality is shrimp uh extremely good okay stay tuned okay love it that is that's my

pick for funniest moment I I don't I don't know why that baby laugh so fun and it's the comeback to

a leader that like just sent it into god territory um should we celebrate some other some runners

up here there are a lot what what else is on your uh we were gonna lay in a bunch of candles that

have sex near them uh is is a great moment or like uh what she calls zander a bike a canonically

a Viking in the sack uh good for you yeah yeah huge moment for zander yeah I thought that's what you

meant at the top of the pod when you said some big zander questions answered in the season is

you're making the sack sure it is affirmative well so yeah in episode 13 in the poker scene very

funny in general she's like you know somebody bet already I've got three k cards but they all

just fold okay yes you have the winning hand but specifically went because buffies out with Riley

and willow says you know you know how it is with a spanking new boyfriend and on your replies yes

we've enjoyed spanking and the card is just explode out of zander sands this is the sequel to the

juice box moment incredible stuff loved it um goodbye Iowa this is peak just blunt on you when

Riley shows up and buffy tells him that was tried to kill her and on you cut in and says it didn't

work but they're all upset anyway absolutely loved that so good um yeah and says to buffy you

should really get yourself a boring boyfriend like zander buffies like that's kind of what I always do

with right just going for just saying yeah yeah um tough all around oh god I have to say like with all

the the insights that we get to zander and on you as uh sex life um it really makes like how

extremely vanilla the Riley buffie we're fucking this entire episode uh sex is just that that much

more disappointing so don't stop touching me the thing is they couldn't have done that with

zander and on you because the entire world would have ended there would have been no way to contain it

it also with my i love when on you a buffy wants zander to go with her to infiltrate the initiative

on you just want that and buffy's like he's got the military experience and on you says it's not like

he was in the numb he was too i drove for one night this is just so good and you know that that

is something that we keep returning to zander gets the um military guarding and out you know he's got

the the flare gun he of course ends up in his dreamscape at apocalypse now etc so that was a great

line i really loved that um let's see what else what else what else oh boy uh i liked when i

showed up in new new new moon rising and shionious just like everyone's uncomfortable now just saying

it out loud really great uh she's the best we could just do an entire pod on we're really

good she said she's a legend um i'm a coffee with a treasure okay um Riley's most exasperatingly

dull moment i would like to give it to uh when he and buffy have sex for the first time during the

i and team which is like a cool sequence where it's cut in and out of them like fighting together and

them having sex for the first time uh his like face when she has sort of like uh mounted him yeah

is just real like i had oatmeal for breakfast like it's so tough i'm like that's your i'm

bucket in the slayer face he's just sort of like uh it's just really tough i i was not for it um

i'm with you unsurprisingly a lot of my candidates fall into that same bucket yet again of like this

should be so much hotter than it is helpful for zander to say also in the i and team i think

Riley's okay in an ofish kind of way really kind of captured the spirit of it but like

when Riley takes buffy down to into the initiative for the first time

she's like you said it was big you told me but you never said it was huge and he's just like

don't like to brag that's his like cute flirty like we're gonna fuck up a storm so

powerful can we awaken the repressed spirits of horny children everybody's like don't like to brag

yeah so i think in their attempt to like oh god this isn't working try to fix Riley in the back

out of the season he spends a lot of it walking around shirtless and they're just sort of attempt to

be like no come on he's a hunk you like hunks and i like yeah he is a hunk obviously but like i'm

just sort of like i don't want to like i i don't care i i i i i i i don't have like a you've given

me indicators about how much awaits but i don't have like an actual episode count for future appearances

and i might need you to give me one we'll see um very this connects to kind of the like what we

were talking about just at the beginning of the pod about the maybe the shortcomings of the overall

sort of initiative plot and how something like Riley like questioning his role and it could be

really interesting it just isn't executed if maybe the fever pitch of excellence the prior

storylines in the in the run to date had been i think emblematic of that is like in good by Iowa

in his confrontation with Adam Adams like and this is as much an Adam thing as a Riley thing i

guess but it's like her art you know like to say had their both walch's favorite children her

art that that makes his brothers family and right i was just like i'm not like you and Adam says

that's pain isn't it and then Riley's like i can't be programmed i'm a man and i feel like there's

a version of the storyline where like him shouting like i can't be programmed i'm a man should be like

riveting yeah you know and especially because buffy it was it really interesting to me this is

obviously a lot about buffy and angel and riley's jealousy and feeling of inadequacy but

buffy calling him out across these stretch of episodes later of like you're a big hit like the way

that he responds to willow and ayes and of course buffy has like this thing she hasn't told him yet

about her history with angel and then riley's kind of like i was behaving and you were right to kind

of call me out on on my prejudice like i'm going to try to be better and it all should be so good

when ayes when when the initiative captures ayes and and riley's like wait i know him and you're like

yeah good job guy oh because you know the human counterpart of this particular demon this one

is fine and i think that's why people do like the religious indoctrination comp of just sort of like

you know what what is he sort of breaking out of but yeah it's that that that's my winner actually

is in new mineralizing when what he's been put in them after the attempt to spring

as fails and riley's in the brig and buffy and co-realized that riley's there too after they've

infiltrated and buffy goes to get him and right before walking out riley's like if i leave now

yeah i can't ever come back pause i just want i just wanted to hear that out loud and you fall asleep

falling was saying it also also at the end when riley is like under adam's control because of his

own like inhibitor chip that's nestled in his left left boob and he's supposed to be acting like

under control and i'm like what's the difference i can't tell it's just sort of like lifeless riley

other riley same same same stuff all right best best fight see uh ten do you want the answer for how

long riley is around season five yeah tell me ten episodes but like that's a lot and it's a lot

but but i i don't think he's like i don't think he's like central in those you know what he means like

he's central on his way out the door i would say but like you know in terms of like why he's leaving

but like up until then i think they're like this isn't working this isn't working and then they're

like this just really is working so okay he cuz they like didn't break up at the end of the season

i know tough for all of us that was worrying we're all bummed i promise you okay that was worrying

best fight scene this was easy for me oh yeah um yes but i don't know if we have the same answer

maybe we do what do you have i have in episode 15 this year's girl faith finding buffy on campus

after she's woken up she's had this interaction with the the civilian seemingly who's able to

just walk into that like secret derelicts for the hospital has learned how much time has passed

that sunny delhi's or ruin that the mayor's dead and fives buffy and i just thought this scene was

i think her entrance to that scene is on incredible believeable incredible it's like i've been looking

for you faith says i've been standing still for eight months be how hard you look and i'm like i

am locked in like we're about to be treated to something delicious and excellent and we were five by

five that's the thing about a coma you wake up all rested and rejuvenated and ready for payback

so much for pleasantries huh what do you think i'd wake up and we'd go for tea you tried to

gut me blondie like i was just like we are so back it was amazing um i loved what buffy said because

they're on on campus there are just people walking by going to class and buffy's like faith these

are innocent people it faith says no such animal yeah and buffy says i guess was too much to hope

that you'd use your downtime to reflect and grow and then this is where faith invokes angel which you

mentioned earlier and riley and the dreams um hysterical faith line here that's some stuff about

cigars and a tunnel iconic but tell me college girl what does it mean and

this is like a part of why so you know they will quickly trade some punches and then the cops show

up and faith will flee so this is more about a fight of of intention and and vitriol and words

right but faith is on the attack even just find like they're both looking for each other but faith

has found her she's observed them through the window at giles is right um and so faith is very

much like the aggressor here and then buffy comes in and you're just like right never for a second

never for long is buffy gonna be on the back foot so when faith says tell me college girl what does

it mean and even just college girl like there's all that jealousy right to me mostly that you still

mouth off about things you don't understand and i just thought that was epic like absolutely really

great i i that's uh i think that's a clear pick for like verbal fight i think you're absolutely

right also like the comedy of willow trying to like be involved a bit uh great stuff um

uh i gave it in terms of physical fight i gave it to the buffy and faith destroy the summer's

home um because i'm always worried about that craftsman as you know i care about it deeply

they break a lot of furniture poor joys um but uh yeah buffy and faith fighting their way through

the house i thought was really good all you know like buffy's interested the window the like

hi mom hi honey like all of this stuff is really really good and then their fight throughout the house

i thought was great yeah i just that whole stretch of this season is amazing i i loved to like one of my

um like a kind of related runner up smuggle but sort of between our two picks is faith and joy

you know and faith is holding joys captive that's a new electric that's a new holy shit good

and like to to to the point from earlier about how part of why i found these um faith episodes

are rewarding is because like the history and the tension and the ferocity is so palpable and

there's not instant reconciliation and you feel all of that trauma and all of those wounds in this

faith joys moment too like which she's just like buffy's too busy to remember dear old mom and

even though buffy does smash through that window and come to save for mom in those couple of

moments you're like and then later true later as they're as you know as played by Sarah in the

next episode when she's like i knew it she hasn't been home like you know she was right and she's

like you have this you have this mom and you just like don't even know what you're ignoring like i

would kill to have this craftsman and have this cool mom and all this other stuff like that and like

yeah it's that great combo of like taking for granted the things that feed herself lacked and also

just like really like look jurrating in any reminder that buffy isn't as perfect as other people think

you know it's just so good um all right uh let's see what do we have next oh great great for me

hornyest clip uh horny smile by i'm a clip let's play it even you spike i could ride you at a gallop

until your legs buckle it in your eyes roll tough i've got muscles you've never even dreamed of i

could squeeze you until you pop like warm champagne and you make me hurt you're just a little bit more

and you know why i don't

because it's wrong

uh tell me tell me your thoughts and feelings when you first saw that scene please

um

very powerful very memorable and very impactful uh thrilled to tell you that that's also one of my

clips today for another category it's that good um very of a piece with what we were talking about

last pod in uh celebrating the genius of something blue and like getting to see these characters and

these performers just have this maresters once again making a meal out of this moment when he's

just like when he does that like head tilt like pull towards her i just feel like he's like he's like

really and he's talked about this really intentionally showing the writers the producers like

you want more of this you want more of spike and buffy and close to me and i'm like yes we do

so we do um and yes it's perfect because it gives us a little taste of something

forbidden between buffy and spike but also it is faith driving buffy's body there and those

words are faiths and it is such an and this is a very sexual stretch for buffy but that is such an

overtly sexual faith approach there that it's just it's just and i mean spike looks like he is has

just melted even though he ends that with like you we're gonna have a confrontation at the end of

that exchange um in those moments he is a loss to her i would say a couple uh in in that same

stretch of of Sarah as faith in the bronze when she meets Tara for the first time and she's just

sort of like split out on the cash she's wearing like the leather pants like that and she's just like

her legs are just like wide open she's like split out on the couch and i'm just like yeah that's

also my horniest moment list is just like the way she's sitting in that scene um i'm so very good

other options here but what's your what's your number one i've got a pretty long long list here

yeah the girthy list um you know as is often the case there are many eligible moments for the horniest

moment category that also belong in other categories on ya child's most daddy moment the faith

category despite category there's a lot of bleed i could have definitely put this in

daddy but i just had so many other contenders there that i decided to put it here in episode 22

restless

they're going to sit down to watch the movies um they've made snacks and gyles and

choices like this is very normal for my daughter and her two friends at the same age and also

mr. gile who i have who i have a movie night more than once on the list car and

that is on all of our minds when we see giles come up behind joys and sort of reach around

to sample her snacks as yes as it were as it were you're sure you don't want to join us and i was

just like you're like somebody call Olivia get your man time to steam clean another couch books

uh that was just really very very powerful so some runners up but that had to be my pick

some other stuff i have is uh spike in giles drag and restless on the on the swing set very important

to me magical um yeah tarah and willow's sweaty sex magic of course very very important and then also

it the pillow book tarah moment the when when willow is sort of like the painting on her back

that whole stretch also very very horny very yes that is quite horny yeah on the the willow tarah

front in episode 14 when willow tells tarah um like i i hope you don't think i just come over for the

spells that's a great that's that's wonderful and yeah either on the the magic front that like

the panting and moaning from willow in episode 16 rememberable um and the magic the magic they've

created forms like literally an oh over them you're like oh it does it i see i see does it i think um

we've talked a lot about the the faith buffy body swap but i think it is undeniably horny and we

talked a lot in the episode three pods about the sexual energy and draw between faith and buffy and so

when faith is in buffy's body now look everything to be clear everything that faith does with

buffy's body is like invasive and fucked up and wrong yeah using buffy's body to have sex with

Riley is wrong and horrible i'll come back to that another category we believe we believe in

in form of consent it was not present in that scene terrible bad um oh i'm the bathtub the bathtub yeah yeah

because there's this draw between them and this energy between them and so she is in buffy's body

and the way that she is like in the bubble bath kind of rubbing and exploring buffy's body and her

legs as she inhabits it uh notable um let's see in episodes 17 when spike is like kind of

rubbing and running his hands along buffy's cheek and neck when they run into him monster hunting

and jonathan super sorry that's very hot um in the we're about to uh fuck a entire frat house into

spawning orgasm walls stretch of episode 18 Riley opening his classic college boy stuff but like

real um Colin and love actually like this bag is chuck a block for the condom the video opens this

night stand it's just like all the different condoms different wrappers like a lot of individual

ones it seems like he's just crapping on from maybe like a um a fish bowl somewhere across campus

and uh obviously the orgasm wall in that episode i mean real made me think of Steve

Harrington in um stranger things coming out when billy shows up and it's like is that you

Harrington yes me don't cream your pants like a lot of just like cream and of the pants happening

that has these boys touches the wall and they're like you know and then i'd love it on the heels of

the first bro who is like the way language tastes the way it feels rolling off your tongue and then

he touches the wall he's like that's all that's terrible the way that the crowd kind of like builds

and they all want to touch the wall very funny um i at episode 22 and zander to Oz in Willow's

dream stretch actually sometimes they think about two women doing a spell and then i do a spell

by myself classic zander and um before we move on to the next category i do just want to take a

moment we've kind of hinted at it i will i would like to give out the anti horny award

for a moment to maggy wash professor maggy wash for watching Riley and Bobby

fog on the wall of surveillance monitors my mind was that oh my god maggy we have some notes we have

nothing but notes for you but don't worry she dies soon thereafter uh uncertain honestly so you know

instant consequences okay um best use of Jonathan it's a whole

episode obviously i'm gonna give it to i'm just shout out Danny strong great just the best yeah

whatever the photo shoot day was for the swimsuit calendar i just okay i had a great time doing

and like all of the posters that he posed for the best the one that he's like has replaced the

balls poster and Riley's uh room it's just Jonathan he's like dunking about him yeah um so funny

it's just all all of the like supplement like him posing for the book cover like all of the

supplemental like stuff that they had to do to paper this world in Jonathan's face i just want to

shout out Danny strong for all of his posing great job incredible i loved in that episode the the

blend of and kind of inserting Jonathan into real world defense and you know like the basketball

poster or the like mentioning that he could coach the US women's team to the world come tight all

and like things like he was in the matrix um invented the internet with like inserting him into

but you know buffies the fictional universe like he was the class protector and he uh ground the

master's bones and all that um i will go with the scantily clad twins emerging on the balcony as

Jonathan stairs into the fire in his mans uh and they're in their lingerie and they're asking if he's

coming to bed and then at the end of the episode he's like the twins left you sure did

like and he's and he's back to like combing his hair forward and i'm like Jonathan you don't

need magic to figure out how to like use some gel to sort of judge it up just gotta say all right uh

speaking of Jonathan most to my most 2000 thing is uh not even not before Jonathan starts singing

the swing music that is happening uh in the bronze this very like jump jive and whale era of swing

music uh resurgence in america uh felt very very 2000 to me great one um i'll i'll go with a superstar

pick as well here i think just Jonathan the Jonathan wearing nios outfit from the matrix and us

learning that he had inserted himself to star in the matrix is obviously that came out in 99 so

that's a very early 2000 thing here um i on the pop culture front i'll also toast the moment in

where the wild things are in 18 when zander's explaining to on you why they need to try to get

back into the house and one of the things he says is people are going all philosophy with their hair

because julie is like cut off their hair off great stuff um and then in goodbye i will when they

all have to kind of hide out in zander's basement even before jiles wakes up cranky and says yeah

i can't imagine why i didn't sleep well in my beach ball the second we see him and i was like oh my

god that is the of that moment in time inflatable blow up furniture that like all my friends had we had

the little ottoman's the chairs like everybody had that yeah that ported me back to this moment so

so so powerfully as did seeing adon put a bunch of floppy discs into his chess port of course

oh my god the floppy disc drive in adom is like um last one at least i will give it to spikestang

it's must see tv in reference to this surveillance video is very of the era uh we miss you and

we see must see tv okay jiles is most dad moment this is actually kind of tough for me i don't know

i don't know that i could locate like a tender jiles this is my daughter except for like some

restless dream stuff i guess but like um what do you have here uh i didn't have one clear winner

but i had a handful of of nominees um episode 13 when he agrees to buy zander's boost bars

cuz i'm an honest like ew and zander says oh yeah we don't say you in front of potential customers

and i just says just skip this part and tell him you want to buy me pretty things he'll understand

that jiles says very well they made bullworn that now of course this could have gone in the daddy

category because it made me long for a band band and they see well i was like boy the last time jiles

was talked into buying a bar or something yeah well deep indoors were involved you know i mean

boy were they boy do i what's that what's that's the one incredible moment that we'll be

coming up in the next category fear nots um let's see episode 14 when he uh they have they

decided they have to hide out and um jiles says absolutely not of going to zanders i will not

squat in that dank hole and spikes those what it was good enough for me but you're above it all

i just felt like a very dad thing like absolutely not i will not squat in this dank hole

i will say it it is with deep and abiding affection my heart for this group

it is weird the jiles like sleeps in the basement i'm like can you not get out of dail

but we got treated to jiles and his pajamas in the beach ball so i don't know what i don't know what

jiles' income is right now like where you know how is he making his money how is he renting that

adorable flat like loft apartment i don't know it is it is a great it is a great little a great

little house it's a good question because you know he seemed eager to get that cash back from

from spike so something to think about i think uh i liked an episode at you when he lectured

Riley for having a throwing a party at a time like this that was real dad core right there

i like Riley pushing back on him honestly like that was a good rally moment yeah it's like the

the you know the guys you're supposed to see yeah the boys need a breather and then he invites jiles and

jiles says as much as i uh long for a good keger i have other plans that's a really good

just as much as i long for a good keger so dad so dad though we're about to find out that he's

just it's cover because he's about to go do something very daddy so i think i think a couple

things i have it's a gourd magic gourd uh it's one of mine and then also in um in who are you when

he's like providing a distraction for um buffy and fates bodies that you can get to the church and

he's like oh we've got families of them mothers tiny tiny babies tiny tiny babies very dorky dad stuff

speaking of in episode 22 in jiles's dream scape buffy is his kid i know i know he's in Olivia

uh in overalls here we go and he and Olivia are pushing a stroller i know through the carnival so

that's like real jiles dad stuff obviously um also he says you mentioned you know spike wearing

jiles's suit on the swing set but he's you know says i've got the stuff spikes like a son to me so

that whole thing is like jiles as dad that's all great um and then i guess in episode 20 before

that one jiles is very drunk this is in the dioca factor when spike is accepted everyone he's

jiles is hammered and he says to buffy you never trained with me anymore he's gonna kick your ass

sorry was that a bit honest terribly sorry like the kind of harsh dad feedback but then when

zander calls him crusty old alfred and jiles is like i'm no alfred sir you forget

alfred has a job so he's just cold sorry for himself how did you feel about drunk jiles i was like

fairly out on this because i was like i understand the like comedy beat of it but i was just like

and here's the thing about the yoke a factor is like there's not a lot i actually like about that

episode but and i and i understand why they pulled spike into atoms plotting here at the end but if

i wish it'd been like a couple episodes of spike tears the group apart not yeah he has a handful

of scenes to do this because it makes them all look dumb that spike is able to manipulate them so

i'm like i understand that the like the idea that the fissures were already there all of these

dresses and strains were already there but i wouldn't have mind seeing like spike pushing some of

those pieces before this one for jiles to go from like one conversation to spike to like

belligerently drunk in front of his underage like charges or whatever you want to call them like

i was just like i don't think jiles would do this i don't know yeah it's interesting because i

think we have you know as you just said the fissures were there buffy will say later in the

conversation with willow like you know the the buildup was there yeah we had all those sad jiles

moments where he was like you know like playing at the time well those are those are raffney moments

for me sad moments for him great choice of socks and lyrics in terms of him feeling like uh

on the outs but you know the cake at buffy's party and getting getting hammered with

Ethan and talking about how he has no place in the world so it didn't feel like shocking to me

i guess the fact that he got um so hammered that he was like stumbling his way up stairs and dropping

his sweater on to the xanders head felt like a little much but i have always you know observed with

interest the jiles is a man who is never far away from a whiskey tumbler you know there's always a

there's always a bottle of scotch or a bottle of brandy around so who knows what you know

perhaps that's why the jade mug is you know always are they ready because you could drink anything out

of that thing spike microwaving blood and bastardizing the jade mug by pouring the ball in

i love spike with the jade mug i think it's great all right jiles is most daddy moment you and

i both have some visual aids here would you i would love for you to go first please oh oh when

i had psychic power i heard my mom think that you were like a steve a door drawing sex what do you

want me to continue actually i beg you to stop what's a steve a door he's gonna load and unload

and unload and put that cargo onto that ship baby um this was just absolutely wonderful buffy

proving her identity two jiles as she is in faith spotty by telling him what she heard what she

heard her mom thinking about what a workman like machine and unrelenting would you have her house

the jiles was while fucking her would you rather fuck a steve a door esque person on the

on the hood of a cop car or a viking in the sack well i mean i'm not saying zander versus jiles

yeah it's not zander versus jiles i know the i don't i know the answer to that one i'd rather

fuck jiles don't worry i know we all know but in general all things being equal would you rather a steve

door viking so as i've mentioned before this just felt like further confirmation i am pretty certain

that part of the jiles experience is a lot of variance encounter to encounter so i think jiles

could also be a viking i have no doubt the jiles could also be a viking i think he could be a tender

poet i think it could be all of it i think it could be all of it so that was like you know

bandy jiles is a steve a door but yeah acoustic guitar jiles exactly you think you would give

the old tender riley i don't want to play games sort of moment um i think your jiles is

been to play games every now and then i bet he is i also have a visually for this category it is

not a clip but uh kyle slu please show us this yes this is what i was describing earlier

i know so fucking hot it's insane this is just a slutty little leering i don't know where it should

be said and what's so funny is like when this show i don't know if you have this experience

when this shows up i had them even though i've seen these up for this a million time when this hearing

shows up in at the quad and he wears it for the rest of the episode right i'm like did i miss

when jiles started wearing an earring and then i went back and watched the the hangover robe sequence

that like comes before it and he does not have the earring on there so i was like this quad moment is

the first time we see this slutty little earring on jiles is he not wearing the earring at at the

espresso pump in episode 18 at the gig oh i do you feel like it's his gig earring i think it's his gig

earring i think it's just like i'm jamming out i'm it's his juke silver uh sort of persecutive

hearing i'm talking those strings uh it's just very powerful and very memorable and like the the

the earring hole in anthony sewer yeah it's been here it's so visible so it's fun to see him get

to like earring it's like ripper days sort of you know exactly yeah exactly it's uh yeah as

Olivia said yeah is this where you want to talk about um jiles and his uh singing career inside

of the season okay yes this is my my my pick for most daddy was the the steve ador moment because

that's just historic but my runner up is all three musical moments so we get episode 18 uh

jiles has been kind of like uh the koi about this uh the oh adults at the espresso pump and they

have to go find him they need his help and he is singing behind blue eyes by the who and he is

definitely has the earring yes yes the earring's in he looks amazing sweet the sad man to be the sad man

behind blue eyes iconic choice of song here and ania and willow and tarah are just jaws on the floor

bold over by his just sexual charisma and zander's like what the hell is happening here and and well

I was like guess what I always knew now I remember do I use stuff such a crush on him this is just

an incredible sequence in every respect he's an amazing musician so this was just here's my fear what

I don't I didn't I didn't research this but my theory is the writers knew they weren't really

using jiles the way that like anthems your head was like used to being used and like he is he is

he's musician uh he I don't know if you do you know that he did like a vh1 taped production of

rocky-horr picture show you've seen yes because I've googled him yeah fairway extensive okay so

I feel like that news came to me via google image search initially so I feel like I feel like

they were just like throwing him a bone of like we we know we have been using you so we're going

to let you sing not one song twice but twice inside of this season um any any delivers

I hope that it continues I've tried to get you to reveal to me how how many more musical numbers

are coming in the future I I found all of this just incredibly powerful and rewarding he sings

again in episode 20 of the yoke effector he's singing at home this time he's at his house he thinks

alone he's singing free bird free bird iconic if I leave here tomorrow would you still remember me

is it spike waxon is there and he does this like is there a greater cry for help

than a man alone in his house playing free bird on the acoustic guitar I don't know

as always I'd like to offer by services I'm here to comfort rupergiles whatever he needs um and

then he uses the music as like exposition in this exposition song stretch in the dream scape in

episode 22 restless it seems familiar somehow he gets up on the stage but this is where

it was it was a real like coin flip between the steve adork quote and this for me for the pick here

one of the things that he sings is and try not to bleed on my couch

I just had it steam cleaned and you think that's because of an Olivia visit

yes not because he and Olivia have been fucking up a storm on every surface of his home including

the couch and what an honor to give giles a reason to need to steam clean his couch I would love

not because giles a reason to steam clean his couch I mean I think we all know that but like not

because not because spike got a little like slot slot be in sloshy with a with a mug of popping up

blood perhaps I choose to believe I choose to believe it's fun blood fun bodily fluids not

exactly okay great yes that's my hope anything else you would like to add in this in this your most

dynamic category I did you know we mentioned when he got hammered and the hangover in primeval he

opens the door in a bathroom you know the kind of like cop press on his neck kill a tot um part in the

robe and you're like no need yeah for good uh and you know I I sent you a picture of him biting into

a red apple and restless I know his team but you know what's disturbing it's a red delicious if it's

a red delicious I love a red delicious it's really tough well everything's a little off in the

dream scheme so I'm gonna I'm gonna hope that's why the dream scape which is trying so hard to be

lynchie that is that is one of the peaks here the twin peaks here sort of images like him

with the with the apple the canton camera the red light the the checkerboard floor behind him that's

very like black lodge sort of stuff and there um all right when will a cries be cry what do you have here

I I hate to repute myself but it's just the second saying goodbye to Oz moment for me uh this

was my my answer last time was saying goodbye to Oz the first time this is a less like this is a more

I'm happy willow this is a more like I'm I'm centered I'm you know I don't know I've seen some

critiques of this of like she doesn't really choose Tara here he because he's the one who's like I

can't stay I have to go but I don't know I think I you know and he's like you know she's like it's my

father made you mad he's like oh yeah and you'll never do that again sort of thing but like

but I feel like if you know it's not just that he gets mad about Tara it's like she's moved on

and and formed a new life without him and uh and they have this like very beautiful like maybe not

right now sort of a conversation but um but she's still he's you know he's crying she's crying

they're still crying it's not the same like sobbing as it was before because it's but it's just like

a very sad goodbye and then like I could be I don't think I'm wrong Seth Green shows up in the finale

here in in the dream and then and then that's I think that's it for Seth Green on the show which is

just like devastating for us and it's honestly um but yeah that's that's my pick how about you

yeah that was my I had a kind of like a two-a tie here both from new moon rising from episode 19

and and that was one of them I found that's that scene in the in the van really sad and really

tender and touching and um you know I think when when Willow says like I feel like some part of me

will always be waiting for you like if I'm old and blue-haired and I turned the corner in

Istanbul and there you are I won't be surprised because you're with me you know um it's like you know

there's like there's a connection there between them and a meaningful experience between them that

uh it will continue to matter to both of them even though they're not together um and then yeah

I think the the scene I I was I was mentioning earlier Willow trying to navigate her feelings for

Tara and for Oz her um her her own identity her sexuality and that moment when Tara says like I know

what Oz means to Will says how can you and I'm not even sure Willow the way she's saying like I don't

know what to do I want to know but I don't and like she feels this pull to Tara by the end of the

episode she she shows up at Tara's at Tara's like I understand you know you have to be with the

person you love Willow says I am you know that's you that's you like you mean me okay yes um and

they're together and and they get to celebrate being together but the fact that Willow is trying to

just like understand her own desire I I found um just really really point it well Willow she's

great you know I love spike spike so this category is the the the triple header of spikes hottest

moment funniest moment most spike moment I have a clip here and it is once again I have chosen my

a most spike moment as my clip nasty sort of fellow look if you blighters out here right yes

thank you although your hero is most likely muted by the fact that she was helping Adam to start

a war that would kill us all you probably just saved us so he wouldn't take you right here

well yeah

did it well um well then everything started right we all have to be not staying

forever good work teams like incredible and any later goes like he says by gum right when they're

like going out to like fight yeah so spike showing up to be heroic for an incredibly self serving

reason yeah that's my spike that's my guy that is a hundred percent my guy where he just shows up

saves everyone but not for the right reason and uh that's him through and through so you know even

as we are is as we are learning and growing and changing as a as a as a person it is it is always

this like with a side of like but it's because it's what I need in this moment yeah yeah

incredible stretch of of spike just start to finish across the season I had like a I mean every

spike moment is a hot moment I had a lot of most spike contenders and funniest spike contenders

in this stretch um also in because that that was episode 21 so also in that I like when spike says

when he's talking to Adam and he's like boasting that he's done it he split the scoobies yeah

and then the the discs come up right it's like damn right I did you should have seen them they won't

be talking to each other for a long time hang on I think I might have detected a small flaw

like incredible that's just classic spike and like hottest is it's just is eternal first spike

as far as I'm concerned but I will say in restless in the black and white sequence when he's like

posing all right for the cameras and he's doing all these like classic vamp poses yeah it's really

really good he's like uh like all this is like it's really good I also thought it was crazy hot

went like the look on his face when he caught Giles singing um in episode 20 just that just like

kind of just the expression on his face in the way he's like you know for someone who's got

watch around his resume you might want to even I to the front door every now and then he just

looks so kind of like knowing in that moment it was great I also love funniest um or we still

on hottest keep going no it's all in the mix like this is just spike this spike brew is just

hottest funniest most spike like that's just this whole thing I will say I love just as like a character

moment in terms of like people figuring out willow and Tara I love that like faith and spike are

the two people who just like pick up on it right away without having to be told explicitly

yeah just because of how they are with each other like the hair yeah yeah but they're just like

they've just lived in the world a bit differently than the the sheltered Scooby since the so they're

like oh that's a that's a gay couple I I know what that looks like right I just love that for

respect um I quite enjoyed when in episode 13 this was all hysterical when Giles pace him a visit

in his crypt in order to give him the baby on cash it's like wipe your feet when you enter person so

child who's sorry careless of me tracking mud all over your mud incredible I just think that like

here's the thing on James Maristers among everything is like he has charisma he has he has chemistry with

everyone yes and also he can say the most like honoris like twisty weed and ism like garbled jargon

shit that they write for him you know like when they're just trying to get like real cutesy with the

with the language he can pull it off honestly and you know in a way that like all of them can but like

they give him some really like clunker lines and he's just like guess what I pulled it off I did it

I'm sorry I could do that basically every time yeah literally every time actually every time yeah

um I enjoyed the slayerettes yes we're we're we're gonna go back yeah this is just so great so he

says in an episode 13 here this bit of business wraps up any I've got with you and your slayerettes

then he says I don't want you crawling back here knocking on my door pleading for help the second

teen which is magic goes all along here little sander cuts a new tooth

spherical and then later in that episode when he has to give giles back the cash he's like that's

all I've gets all it's left spent the rest on blood and smoke classic spike that was incredible um

I really enjoyed when he said to buffy got a hand at you this is an episode 14 got a hand at you

Goldilocks you you do have bleeding tragic tasting men and then he says you think Riley was

out knitting booties for your future offspring when Maggie was stringing you up knitting booties is

just so good I think also the uh the Tony Robbins joke when he's talking Adam uh he's like you're like

Tony Robbins except like big and he's like actually you're just like Tony Robbins then that was

great I loved when he went to willies for a drink in episode 14 double shot of own egg keep

make it the good stuff don't want no freaking orangutan though he said keep instead of

bark he was just so good funny um I love that he called Adam because there's just this

actually very rich aspect of the spike Adam um storyline which is that spike keeps saying to Adam

don't underestimate buffy right like he's the way he's like you're you're not taking this seriously

enough like she is going to have a way of you know just getting rid of threats in this town yeah and I

like admire this her he does sure does you know he's there's respect there undeniably and I loved

when he said to Adam this was an episode 20 you're not getting it mr. bits mr.

Vince was great the nicknames that he dishes out are just so amazing and great when spike arrived

to find that Riley was kind of in his new new state that they had moved to this new phase he says so

it's chips all around this is so much to brought the party back that's fantastic that's really good

um do you think that soiers way with the nickname comes comes from spike it feels like the

the connective tissue there is pretty apparent I I was just thinking this morning I was just like

the way in which and I've talked about this before obviously but like this this archetype of a

character that I find so fascinating but I'm just like I'm just thinking like gooey brained me like

young teenage me watching the show and just like having this like kind of character this spike

archetype which is again echoed across all these other things just imprinted on me like for

again twilight and a werewolf and an infant baby I was just sort of like I'm like I didn't have a choice

I was so unformed and then I saw what James Marsters plus though the buffy writing team could do

with the character like this and then I was just his over for me I am forever acceptable to that

because I was just like I was so new to storytelling and I was like I'd never say anything like it

it was just it's dazzling dazzling you have a type I do I do have a type but I'm just saying like

and it's starting here to be able to like see to know its origin so clearly you know it's it is what it is

powerful it's powerful um a few more most spike these moments that stood out episode 14

buffy because right now he's like that's hostile 17 and buffy says don't worry I can't bite

anymore and spike says hey what am I bleeding broken record I'm bad I just I can't bite

anymore thanks to you wankers I loved all these moments throughout because he's this was so fun

to see him in and out of the scubbies and like the pull of his own impulse and instinct in both

directions like the instinct to hate these people but also the kind of just like actual pleasure of

interacting with them and the moments where they're um their impulses like a line uh episode 15

when zander and jiles ask him for help with faith that they describe faith to him and then he's

like tell you what I'll do them head out find this girl tell her exactly where all of you are

and then watch as she kills you and they're like and I have a while it's like can any of your damned

little scoony club at least try to remember that I hate you all which was a great just way to kind

of capture um the surprise entanglement between spike and the scubbies across the season that was

really really lovely I liked that quite a bit um I enjoyed just kind of a continuation of the like

willow spike um you know ed uh comp scene when he's with aanya and he's trying to rob her at first

which is like you're not even bumping anymore like I was just a minute ago hang on

I'm gonna even bump you anymore it's really good oh my god incredible the best

from one incredibly sexy leather clad character to another this category is simply called

fuck yeah faith lehan here we go what do you got so this is where I have the clip that you already

um

watch it again

even you spike i could ride you at a gallop until your legs buckle it in your eyes roll tough

i've got muscles you've never even dreamed of i could squeeze you until you pop like warm

champagne and you make me hurt you're just a little bit more and you know why i don't

because it's wrong

whoo kind of all unbelievable this is a really i almost text like you know we decided we're

gonna add a fifth category obviously to this section um and i almost text you clarification

about it's not too because i don't i don't know that totally matters but is like is this an

Eliza douche coup moment or is this a faith the character moment and like obviously we'll probably

have a mix of both yes but i want to i want to honor Eliza's performance is by because she is

less of an opportunity to do so but in that stevedor exchange with with uh giles when she's like

stop inching you were inching it's a very ceremonial galler like is she really nailed the intonation

of of buffy that was very good um i i love to just before the body swap in episode 15 when she is

has has has taken joys captive and says how do i look joys says psychotic and faith says

hmm i was shooting for soul shape but okay it's a great classic little faith moment there

the the the one that we both clipped from episode 68 is just so like electric and incredible

and i think too because we had it builds off that mirror sequence it's wrong yeah you can't do that

it's wrong you can't do that because it's naughty because it's wrong you can't do that it's wrong

faith figuring out how she's going to impersonate buffy by saying it's wrong and then getting to

invoke it in that way it was just incredible honey um but then but then the rule of three like using

it for real in the church at the end and you and you like it hits you know it really does it really

doesn't it's it's so like rewarding to see her leave the airport and choose to go help i mean

it feels like so massive on a on a like somber note as well i again as we said already

faith using buffy's body to sleep with Riley is not okay that is really really fucked up

i thought it was really striking at the end of that scene the look on faith's face because she

spent all this time kind of like ridiculing buffy for the boyfriends and they you she's like oh

this is real connection you know and like feeling the absence of that it was really really sad it

like it really hit me when he says when he says i love you to her yeah in that moment and she's like

get off me and she like can't get him off of her even though she is the slayer and she has

slayer strength is you know yeah that's a devastating i mean like obviously what faith does there is

you know sexual assault of both buffy's body and Riley's body like this is a horrible scene and also

it's devastating for her emotionally and for us to watch her experience in that at the same time

um you like in in the quad fight i just think her intro the you're not me turnaround from the

message board is like one of the yeah all-time intro into a scene moment set a character has

uh even when you know it's coming even when you you know it's her and you can see the back of her

it's still like the characters don't know so it's still like an incredibly cool moment also the

will use the phrase and i think about it all the time which is the cleavagey slip-on phrase yeah

that's just an iconic buffyism to me uh five what by five what is also incredibly important

um yeah faith we love you we'll stroll tafer back best college is hell metaphor like you said

the back half of the season kind of forgets that college exists yeah um so i'm going to give it to

experimenting with magic slash experimenting with your sexuality that's that's my best

step here what do you have that's a good one um i think yeah like what in terms of we are actually

in a college setting i guess the um frat house spouting orgasm balls and zanders like a ghost what's

the deal if is every frat on this campus haunted and if so why do people keep going to these parties

really funny um i guess like across multiple episodes this idea of like your high school love

interest and your current love interest yeah you have austin tara you have angel and riley um

so that kind of like meeting of of spheres and and time periods of your life feels

very collogy though of course that can be true at any point in your life so yeah i i hope there's

more college in season five because i really like that aspect of the beginning of season four but we'll

see i have really bad news for you okay um speaking of yeah your high school boyfriend meets your

college boyfriend i've decided to give my funniest moment to a very unexpected person

i'm not leaving this room i mean it

David Boreannis welcome to my funniest moment category i think angel smirk to riley as he follows

buffy out of the room is the like the funniest thing i've ever seen i think it's so funny and i

just think it's like i you know angel as a source of humor not always so this is part of like

what more and more what David Boreannis gets to do on his own show you know what i mean like we

we celebrated the moment that he was quite funny on on buffy but it wasn't a laugh of minute

moment with david boreannis on buffy um and then of course it's like i said like we were talking

about with the mayor like when angel shows up you're like god Riley like how do i ever think angel

was boring when like when you compare to riley i'm like this is this is a live wire we got here so uh

yeah that silent walk by smirk is just absolutely incredible top tier for me amazing pic i also

quite a joyed angel saying you sleep with this guy real audience avatar moment there

great pic great pic um this is where i would like to celebrate shrimp and i'm young once again

back to superstar superstar really carrying the categories here uh so you have the first moment

in zander's basement that we already talked about when ony is buffy's basically like how do all

it really alanies work how does wish magic work and yanya's it chooses to explain this

by using shrimp you know now if this is uh if we were doing this now maybe we'd use like the hot dog

fingers so she says you could have like a world without shrimp or with you know nothing but shrimp

you could even make little like freaky world where jonna thins like some kind of not perfect mouth

breather if that's what's blowing up your skirt these days just don't ask me to live there

and then later their atgiles is their back with the scubis and buffy is asking buffy has

grown really suspicious about jonna thins she's asking ony to explain this alternate reality

possibility to the whole group and ony uses the shrimp again buffy cuts her off

enough with the shrimp and then she says it's like they're all his jonna thins ponds

and this specifically is my pic on your reply it's by saying or prance and buffy just loses it

stop with the shrimp i don't know it just killed me i thought this was so funny more prance is so funny

like it's really good incredible we're prance maybe laughs so hard i also uh run another

ony is just i i can't stop toasting on you assassin oh my god um on the watchers council

front when uh in who are you giles is like no this is different you know special ops units

mongolang and taryneation wet works will says what's wet works zander says scuba type stuff and on

you says i thought it was murder so there's like thick and putter in a water um yeah good i would like

to now perform a piece of uh dramatic perfection and this is from restless but what else could

i expect from a bunch of low rent no account hoodlums like you hoodlums yes i mean you and your

friends your whole sex throw them in the sea for all i care throw them in and wait for the bubbles

men with your gropeing and spitting all groin no brain three billion of you passing around the same

warna urge men with your sales um this is mad with your sales the restless version of death of a salesman

with your sales god

Sarah this is Sarah i think Sarah's funny a season because i do i do think actually

unbelievable i do think actually the topic is Sarah as faith and the mirror like exploring her

face and it's wrong and all of that sort of stuff um one one beat i will give this is like

pro anti-sera at the end of uh this year's girl i think it's a bit of unintentional comedy

when there's the reveal of it's actually faith in buffy's body when she's like five by five and

then she has to give like a psycho look to the camera yeah there is trying really hard to be like

crazy gleam in the eye duh duh duh duh and i was like okay that's kind of funny uh great stuff

what else do you have um we talked about the halter top moment already but uh you know oh you

mean the camera stuff i thought about it but on me it's gonna look all private Benjamin don't worry

i've patrolled in this halter many times i've patrolled in this halter many times it's just um

well though necessarily like strictly adhering to canon because i feel like buffy has a new outfit

in every scene um i just thought that was a that was absolutely fantastic uh let's see i think we've

covered a lot of the other candidates in in other categories did you have other ones that we

haven't yet i would say there is a hyena callback which i'm always excited to see yeah and then there's

there's a moment where willow adds uh zander to open some milk and he says no i'll i tarot and it

gets all slashy and that's just like such a like visceral lived experience joke uh that i just

really it really gets me great one but or prawns is honestly hard to beat it's very very good

masterical with your stales all right most of us will moment you have a clip here for our last category

i do so i guess i'm starting to understand why there's no ancient prophecy about a chosen one

and her friends if i need help i'll go to someone i can count on

i wish you means riley and he's not there just thanks yeah tough tough all around man so that's

that's uh that's episode 20 that's the yoga factor this is as we've talked about a few times

already today i mean i found this very painful it is the product of spikes machinations and spikes

manipulations but like he worked with what was there you know he poked and prodded at their

actual insecurities and their fears and the ruptures inside of the group dynamic and it worked

quickly to your two point quickly but it worked and the fact that they're able to pull themselves

out of that and like pass that friendship test this is something we talk about a lot and have

talked about another pods before like when you have this harrowing experience and you say painful

things to people you love if you can make it out like on the other side of that often your

better stronger place but that doesn't mean you can actually like on here or on say the things

that transpired and they say some painful stuff to each other in this sequence they really really do

and like i think that you know there's that stretch where spike is kind of explaining the yoga

factor to Adam you know don't tell me you've never heard of the Beatles the point is they were

what's a real powerful group it's not a stretch to say they've ruled the world when they broke up

everyone blamed yoko but the fact is the groups but itself apart she just happened to be there

you know how it is with kids they go off to college they grow apart way of the world and like

that's true you know i think part of i was thinking back to like what in last week's pod

when i was sort of like talking about why i love college stories i was thinking about that more

and like i love high school stories of middle school middle school stories i love coming of

each source in general but for me like college is where i mean my friends who are like my best friends

to this day and like a lot of the experiences that feel most deeply connected to like what i love and

who i am and what i do were present in high school but like really i think like kind of coalesced in

college but if i had gone to school with my best friends from high school it would have been different

yeah that wasn't what happened i went to school on my own none of them were with me right yeah yeah

so i i i i was thinking about what this would have been and i honestly like it was part of why

i didn't really didn't want to go to Maryland even though like my mom had gone there my dad had gone

there my stepdad had gone there and i got in and it's a great school and i grew up a Maryland fan

like so many kids from my high school were going there and i was just like yeah yeah something new

and like we're gonna change and if we change but that change moves us apart from each other we

ended up like growing apart i'm still friends with good friends with a couple people from high school but

a lot of the people who were really dare to me at high school i'm not in touch with at all do you want

to do you want to name them and tell me how beautiful and perfect they are i have sent you some

pictures of Lena she is just a gorgeous gorgeous woman when i sent you pictures are you gonna be

like i see why you just started talking about how stunning she is she's gorgeous um but yeah so like

you know the conversation with willow Tara about the housing or willow's moments of like watch

buffy gravitate toward the initiative a riley and away from her or zander navigating like college

life and how it's a thing for them that it's not it's not for for him and just like i don't know when

buffy said when they're repelling and their buffy and willow are making up and reconciling and then

zander will join the group hug you know i thought it was like really cool that they acknowledged this

like i think the trouble was stirrupable i think we've all sort of drifted apart this year don't you

and willow said maybe a little but you know first year of college it's hard to keep the old high school

gang together but i want it together will i miss you so i just like really loved that and like it was

hard and intense and sad and i i think that exploring this feels necessary and right like it wouldn't

feel like this story in this phase of their lives have been properly explored if they never had a

moment where when all these new experiences of people are entering their lives they didn't move away

from each other a little bit so like my expectation frankly is that this won't be the last time that

something like this happens maybe not in this exact form but you know let's part of growing up sad

i'm gonna my perfect pick i'm gonna stick over to this faith in the mayor thing

which i said was my most emotional moment oddly um i was reading uh miles mcknut

who's a great scholar or television was doing a buffy watch to the first time he had never seen it

and so i was like reading it's in preparing myself to talk to you about it i've been reading some of

his sort of like journeys through it for the first time like watching it for the first time in 2020

like what is it like to watch back the first time in this many years after it was like a thing

yeah um and this is a quote from his recap of this year's girl uh he wrote it says a lot the show

managed to make me feel bad for a murderer getting emotional over the death of an evil maniac who

turned himself into an enormous demon and threatened to destroy the entire town but i think this year's

girl achieves just that which keeps it from being seeming too inconsequential so i mean he didn't

really like the episode i disagree but like that moment um also like love that moment when zander's

like anyone missed the mayor just like wanna be a snake um but like uh yeah i just i i think that

that moment is so unexpected because like everyone you know yes the show is trying to make you

feel for faith everyone around her is calling her a psycho and crazy and this cleavagey

slept bomb and all these other things but like the you know the show is asking you to be with her

as she's regarding the main antagonist of season three and feeling devastated by the loss of him

it's a very good moment very good TV moment so yeah i loved it and empathy in surprising places

really one of the hallmarks of this experience so far yeah very good fantastic um all right so you

are excited for season five because you know it you know that uh Riley is not making it through the

whole season though longer than you had hoped 10 out of 22 is a lot of episodes i really i really don't

think i i really feel like you'll not feel his presence as much as you're worried you will um and then

uh anything else you're excited about for season five um i mean spikes still has the chip in his head

so that's thrilling you know to see how long that remains the circumstance and then presumably at

some point it will cease being his reality but like has the kind of routine of interacting in this

different way with these people like stuck looking forward to that so i think the spike dynamic with

buffy and the scubis i'm curious to see what giles like does this time yeah and i support it if it's

just uh having sex on his couch looking hot like a star yeah that's that's fine and drink it some whiskey um

yeah i'm i'm i'm curious and eager to see uh how college is used as a setting if at all i'm excited

for more with tarah and willow um i guess i'm curious to see who bovies buffies next love

interest is like knowing that riley is not going to be around for long and that it seems like

there are fewer angel crossover moments coming like how quickly is another person in the mix

there who's the next um antagonist what role does dawn play and how quickly and i think something

that i'm very interested in is how often buffy is interacting with joys that's on my mind yeah

um so yeah quite quite a bit and you know just basically hear for every moment that we can

possibly be treated to on the onya front i hope that yeah i hope that it's like every 2.5

scenes we get onya welcome to the main cast of a coffield it's ridiculous it's ridiculous that

she's not in the opening credits of season four she's she's basically a series regular in season four

but you know contractually not but that changes in season five okay um i'm really excited for you to

watch season five i will just i'll and i've already probably said too much more than i probably

should have but i will just say the season five premier is a real like that's the Dracula one right

okay okay yes yes it put out it quite brutal the thumbnail for it when i finished season four yeah

so i would just say when i watched that i was like what's happening on the show now and then the

rest is much more normal but the season five premier is the Dracula episode which is very strange

episode of buffy but yeah then we go from there yeah okay um you know i kind of i like a weird

episode of buffy i like a goofy you know i like i'm i'm here for every now and then a little go fish

or a little beer bad uh thank you hmm to crawler's sherbet yeah yeah Jonathan frees here with us today

Jonathan frees also my thank you list uh our our dinner and compile always for everything always

jomiad dinner on and carlos on the social they're they're tagged teaming that they're doing an

incredible job and we will be back with more things next week that we definitely have planned don't

worry about it and um and Mallory's gonna start season five buffy i can't wait see you soon bye

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