Mindhunters

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What is the movie?

Where does it stream?

What is the movie?

Where does it stream?

We saw mine hunters so you know what that means.

Now is time for...

How did this create?

We're gonna have a good time celebrating failure.

Not just be the hater.

Could you know you wanted?

How did this create?

Let's walk in the mediocrity of Sephora.

Perhaps we'll find the answer to the question.

How did this get made?

Hello people of Earth and welcome to How Did This Get Made.

I'm Rose Paul Schier and today we are talking about the 2005

Rene Harlan directed action film,

Mine Hunters.

Now in case you didn't watch, this is what you need to know.

There is this FBI instructor played by Val Kilmer,

who's evaluating new recruits to join a serial killer profiler team.

And here's the thing.

Val Kilmer's methods, little on orthodox,

often includes creating very realistic simulations of murder scenes

using like sets and props and even actors.

And for the final test, the group is brought to our

remote island for simulation training.

However, once they are there, they realize that they are being hunted

by a serial killer who might be someone that they actually know.

Could it be LL Cool J, a last minute addition to the team

who was sent along to just observe.

We will soon find out, but let's not get into any of that before.

We introduce my co-host.

Please welcome, June Diane Rafeel and Jason Manzook.

Is how are you both?

Wow.

I mean, it does.

I'm worried is this podcast episode a test?

Oh, is it a test or is it a trap?

Okay.

This is a movie.

What time is it?

It is what I need to know.

More clocks, please.

This is a movie that infuriates me on so many levels because

very much like law abiding citizen June,

which you were not a present for a movie where there's a lot of traps

and a lot of things and you have to be like, how did this all come together?

I'm going to put some of that on the side and just focus on the opening

which you see this man incredible approaching a car in the middle of winter

and his hand touches, you know, the hood and we see like a masked

glove like by the woman's face looking as if like, uh-oh.

This is a bad guy.

It's a bad guy and it's just Christian Slater and we're like, okay,

well, that's going to pay off.

Like that creepy moment should definitely pay off.

It doesn't.

Uh-huh.

And but now I'm going to put that on the side and go now we're just in the real

I want to make sure I'm clear on this with you both.

Okay.

We're in the real world.

We are interviewing real people because we're on the road.

We're in the middle of the forest and we believe that we're in.

We're in the world.

Well, I mean, yeah, that's what the mood.

Here's really like once you start pulling at the threads, this thing,

this falls apart.

That's so quickly because, you know, the entire cold open of the movie

is this very high stakes, high tension thriller kind of beginning where

the end of sounds of the lambs like that kind of or something like that.

You know, like one of these kind of we're going to find the serial killer

and then they find the house.

They go in.

They find they can hear the girls, the kidnapped girls.

They they're there.

Uh-huh.

They do all of it all the way through both of them being killed.

Christian Slater and his partner, Katherine Morris.

They are the only two people who they are.

They don't wait for backup.

They go barging right in and boy oh boy, do they get killed?

They get killed in such a crazy way because also I will say the way it shot

I was writing down all these jokes like I was a haunted house.

It looks like a haunted house.

Like it looks like something that I've paid $40 to walk through and have people

jump out at me.

Uh, and but I also was like, what am I seeing?

I can't see anything like the camera angle was obscuring enough stuff.

I was like, is that person?

Did he shoot himself in the head?

Are those girls like dummies?

Are they real?

I couldn't quite and I was getting irritated.

Yes.

Only to reveal.

It was all set.

It was all, yeah, and God, so many questions.

It's very hard in a movie like this because you have to hang on to just what are the truths

that you know and like what are what what is what can I hold on to to orient myself

and to come back to over.

Yes.

One of the things that I feel like was was important towards the amount of flies around

the serial killers, you know area.

Yeah.

Serious work.

Lots of flies.

And not just the flies, but the sound of the fly sound of the flies.

That was very important.

I would have loved to have seen a moment because we do see Val Camer breaking down the scene

once it's revealed it's all set, dealing with like the fly Wrangler, you know, like

guys, it was good.

It was too much on the flies.

We get a few.

All so roughly now I understand we will get to the island in which the Navy uses it for

simulation purposes.

The all sorts of like opposite.

Oh, right.

We're talking about O'Neigha.

That's right.

But that's that's fine.

That's an island.

But this is a place I guess outside of Virginia is in Virginia somewhere where it felt like

it was it felt like it was on a Hollywood set.

Like and I say that not like, you know, like the way that they had control of the lighting

and everything.

I guess this is wondering like roughly how much does that cost?

It's got to be a staggering amount just to produce the escape room that Christian Slater

and Catherine Morris have to go through must have cost millions.

That's what I wonder.

Millions of dollars.

Because I want to just go back when you're talking about the flies and how important it

is that the flies are buzzing around the corpses and the dead people.

You see someone going and turn off the tape player that is playing the flies sound effect.

Yeah.

So it's all it all falls apart like and the cake is real.

I mean, because Val Kilmer does as he's chewing them out is eating a piece of cake that

was left in the table where this serial killer I guarantee that was an improv from Val.

Oh, absolutely.

But like that's a, you know, we're tax paying citizens like that's if you guys fund a

bar like that's millions of dollars.

Oh, but now that's like sending cash betel to the Olympic now.

What are we doing?

But here's the thing I want to go back one step on.

I because I guess I just have to leave out the fact that they were in the middle of the

wilderness interviewing subjects.

It's like, so in this world, they had to find this house.

Like that's part of the mission.

Yes.

Okay.

So, okay, I'll buy that.

But they are training to be pro-fielers, which is it I know where you're going with this

plot.

It's the same question I had.

Yeah.

Okay.

Go for it.

Tell me.

Well, yep.

Okay.

So, so to be an FBI profiler and I don't know that much about this, but I'll speak on it

anyway.

It seems like you have to be doing some deep psychological work.

Lots of research.

Lots of like, how does the human mind work?

You were way past like 101.

We're really, you know, we're on message boards about young white men who are categorically

usually stereotypical.

We are, we are doing that type of work.

We are not doing the tactical sort of knocking on doors.

They're not knocking on doors.

No, we're not clearing rooms.

That's not our area.

And it seemed to be that Val Kilmer's biggest issue was with their tactical powers.

Yes.

Not their, not their, their ability to profile.

Special agent, more.

When is the situation secure?

On the drive home.

On the drive home.

That's right.

On the drive home.

Sir, we shut up.

We'll figure it's on the table, more at the door, different brands.

Two cars up front.

Four place settings, not three.

All should have the lure to do to the possibility that there might be another suspect.

I think.

Sorry.

What?

What did you say?

I think you enjoy watching us fail, sir.

Better in here than out there.

You know, this really happened.

The unsub was apprehended under two minutes without a shot fired.

Cook you guys seven minutes and you killed your partner.

Here's the thing.

What they failed to do was not profile, but just not take in all the information.

Like, oh, didn't you see there's four?

That seems like a skill set.

They were just plates on the table.

Yeah.

That's all right.

Like a homicide department, just like cops, clearing rooms, going through.

We can prove.

So, one of them to be a SWAT team, like I don't think that any of these skills transfer

to, to profile.

No, no.

I mean, by the way, I'm going to say this, they're all bad.

In a movie where the main idea is there is a killer amongst them and they have to profile

each other.

This movie fails at that.

These are the dumbest motherfuckers that never use any bit of information and even in the

big end reveal, which we'll get to eventually, but it's not even like, oh, I profile them.

She basically just marked them with paint.

I mean, it's really similar to it's like, it's like a horror movie that's happening.

It's like a group of teenagers who happen into a house full of traps.

Right.

Like, they are, they are acting with the same kind of chaotic, we don't know what to do,

that teenagers would, but they are meant to be the best of the best and they, they don't

work together.

They don't use their brains, they don't use their skill sets to the best of their abilities.

They are constantly just, it's seen after scene where they're just pointing guns at

each other being like, it's you, it's you, it's you.

I know it's you, it's like, it's like the movie, the thing with idiots, like the thing where

it's like people who are not supposed to be profiles are smarter at figuring out who

is an alien and who is not.

And these are just normal people.

And here's the other thing.

They don't have a different skill set.

They all are equal, which is an other odd thing.

So this is a team where everyone is on an equal footing.

Like, no one's like, oh, you're the, you know, you're the ballistics person, you're the

this person.

They are all, they are also are like, each trap seems to be, so, so, so in the story of

the movie, the, the killer is picking everybody off one by one or sometimes in pairs or whatever.

And there's a watch that appears or a clock that appears with the time of the next murder.

So everybody knows, okay, in between now and then we have to figure out what's going

on.

The timelines are like two hours and the killer somehow has set up traps inclusive of

draining an entire body of all of its blood and using all of that blood to write numbers

all over the walls that are some sort of code.

Well, at that point, they've been asleep for five hours and they drink the bag coffee.

So he has five hours to set up a day's worth of, oh, here she is.

Oh, here she is.

Like ignore the numbers, the numbers don't matter.

Let's find the trap.

And I'm like, the number is definitely matter.

They all work together.

They never, like you figure out this, not figure out that.

They're all like just, it's like, it's the worst people in a skateboard.

They're so, they get so angry at each other for trying to, trying to profile.

Yes.

They're like, enough of that.

Let's try the killer.

Like, I know, enough of the numbers, enough of the letters.

Now there's letters, fuck those letters, fuck those numbers.

It's like, we would have made more sense if the thing had happened where it was like

three profilers and three like soul, yeah, you know, like, we, because the idea is oftentimes

you guys are paired together in the field.

Use your complimentary skillsets to solve these problems.

They all brought guns.

And here's the other thing that really cracked me up again, just to drive home how much

this movie does not even embrace the premise of the film, which is, LL Cool J is, like,

at the very last minute, brought on to join the team to observe because, you know, people

are like, to your point, June, why is Velkimer spending all this money?

That's something's up.

Is that how he, is that how he drains in the beginning?

I thought he said he was joining to observe.

He's an investigator with the Department of Justice, he says.

Right.

Thank you Jason.

He's introduced as a police detective who just wants to tag along and see how they work,

which makes a little bit of sense kind of what we're talking about.

And then it's, then the crew become suspicious of him because they find maps and information

that he has about the island that they're on.

And then he comes clean and says, listen, I'm not who I said I was.

I'm here investigating Val Kilmer, the Department of Justice thinks he has too much power

basically.

Now here's what I will say.

I don't remember if this is him because they didn't write down who wrote this, but I

am going to bet that it was LL Cool J when he goes, you all think your profilers, I'll

profile you right now.

What you say about me doesn't tell you about me, it tells me about you.

Now, I could say you're a little gambling means you have an addictive personality.

I could say I know you're sleeping with one of the guys in this room.

I could say you take charge of your team because you never had a leader in your own life.

And you, when push comes to shove, you crack under pressure.

Your partners can't depend on you.

You don't belong here.

And when he's profiling one of the women in the unit, right, this is, I believe Patricia

Velasquez, that's the actress's name.

He goes, and you're sleeping with one of the guys.

Like, well, that's not a, that's not a profiler thing because at one point he's like, you have

daddy issues.

You do this.

You're sleeping with one of the guys.

That's not like, it's, it's more detective work.

It's not like, it's not psychologically, that's not what she's made of.

It's just like, oh, yeah, you are fucking somebody here.

That's okay.

And that's fine.

It's a fine thing, but you can't sell that next to you have daddy issues.

You've always come up behind September 19th.

Yeah.

It's like, it's not, that's not what we're doing here.

But that's like, those are the kind of like, this movie is making all the shortcuts and

broad strokes.

It's not interested in any of these people going deeper and actually trying to crack the

case, which was disappointing because that really stays at the same level the whole time.

Everybody is just inactive panic throughout.

And they never question why I couldn't understand why they wouldn't assume that Val Kilmer

was the killer or that they do it one point at one point.

But then they let go of that so quickly.

And it's like, well, only because they find his body.

Well at the end, but so many people die before that.

Yes.

And I'm like, why, why are you assuming it's also Val Kilmer clearly did not stay for a

life model mold because they really got to tell you, no, no, that's him.

Even though he doesn't really look the way that we think.

Well, and there's a, there's a lot, the movie really wants to pull from all of those,

you know, seven and those grisly kind of.

And so, and they're even trying to make this idea of like, oh, the puppet master is

the serial killer.

And then some of the bodies are strung up like Marionettes and stuff like almost like a

puppet master would, but most everybody else just dies in a trap of some sort in a, a

scary room type trap.

Can I ask a question?

Indiana Jones style dress.

Can I ask a question?

So we're just here asking questions.

So they are brought to this island by Val Kilmer to find an actual serial killer who

knows what he's setting up a final.

This is like their final exam.

And it's like another one of the fake setups.

Well, I know it's fake, but in the world of the fake set up, yes, I'm sorry.

I know that they are finding a serial killer and that that more next morning in Val Kilmer

says it's going to strike tomorrow.

You'll find the crime scene.

I was waiting for that serial killer, that fake story to somehow fold into our real story.

Would that be great?

Well, because you would think that Val Kilmer, who has left the island or we assume he

has left the island, has started to set up these traps because where are those traps?

And I think the first body is, yes, his trap, but then we also don't know.

Oh, I do.

I have a question about that.

Well, who is that body?

Well, that's a mannequin.

I thought that was a man.

Okay, that is okay.

I don't know.

Val Kilmer's body also, to me, love like a man.

I know.

Because you did also text me, who is that body?

What's her number?

What's her deal?

Who is that body?

I'm always like, I very much like Corey Feldman, I want to help bring young girls to Hollywood

and just teach them the right way.

Oh, but when they see that body, there's a tape player that goes off, Christian Slater,

because of course, he's the leader of the group, goes over, turns off the tape, and then

a domino setup gets started.

And all the dominoes start to fall and things are happening.

And they stop and stare.

No one, no one activates.

Why wouldn't they stop it?

They know that the entire, this is before they even understand that there's zero killer

in their midst.

They understand that clearly it's set up by the-

I feel like the world of the simulation, why wouldn't they stop it?

Right.

Even if they were doing the simulation, even if this was just pure like, no stakes simulation,

you know, no physical stakes, you know, they don't think they're going to be heard

or anything like that.

Still their final.

They're still doing an absolute dog shit job of assessing the situation.

They're still doing an absolute dog shit job of clearing the rooms, of looking for traps.

Well, I guess they're profiler.

When they go to the-

Why would they know?

They blow up the escape boat just by tripping a trip wire that was very visible, you know?

They are supposed to be the best of the best, and they're in fact the worst of the worst.

And I would believe that these are the FBI profilers under Cash Patel versus in the

2000s.

I was just kidding.

Okay, I have to tell you.

I was just looking on eBay where I go for all kinds of things I love, and there it was.

That hologram trading card.

One of the rarest, the last one I needed for my set, shiny like this.

The designer handbag of my dreams.

One of a kind.

eBay had it, and now everyone's asking, ooh, where'd you get your-

Wincheeel wipers.

eBay has all the parts that took my come on.

No more knowing.

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Losing weekends are all about enjoying the season together.

Before everyone arrives, I stop by my local Total Wine and more to grab a great bottle.

With so many bottles to choose from and the lowest prices, Total Wine and More makes it

easy to grab an extra bottle for everyone.

If you're not sure what to pick, their friendly guides can help.

Find what you love and love what you find only at Total Wine and More.

Curbside pickup and delivery available in most areas.

Visit TotalWine.com to learn more.

Spirits not sold in Virginia and North Carolina drink responsibly B-21.

Hey sweetie, your mother showed me this Carvana thing for selling the car.

I'm going to give it a try.

Wish me luck.

Me again, I put in the license plate.

It gave me an offer.

Unbelievable.

Okay, I accepted the offer.

They're picking it up Tuesday from the driveway.

I haven't even left my chair.

It's done.

The car's gone.

I'm holding a check.

Anyway, Carvana, give it a whirl.

Love ya.

So good, you'll want to leave a voicemail about it.

Sell your car today on Carvana.

Pick up these manply.

Now I will say this, that I don't trust anything that Christian Slater does because he,

well first of all, he got some sweet CS butt cheeks out there.

We got to see some sweet cheeks.

Oh yeah.

We got to see that Slater Tush.

Yeah.

Yeah, a little Slater Tush.

But he proceeds to have sex.

And you couldn't make a more open area to it.

And a resident.

Right.

And so loud to have sex in like the communal shower open stone communal showers of the everybody

must have heard.

And by the way, this is also a island that is used for military training.

No one's ever lived there.

It's just for military exercises.

But yet when one of the guys is in a bed, there's all these like posters of naked women

up on the wall as if it was someone's bunk.

Or like, I figured that out.

Or as a direct or decorated.

And then I was like, or did he decorate it?

Or did Val Kilmer?

Decor did Val Kilmer set the scene?

Like, like how many people pre production are going to the island to set it up?

And by set it up, I mean create ultra realistic serial killer murder sites.

You know what I mean?

We know that Navy had just been there because they left us sitting ducks, you know, again,

I was waiting for the Navy to somehow get full did back in and and for them to find

something that that was going to be important from the Navy.

No, nothing.

Nothing.

Nothing important ever happened.

And, and, you know, spoiler alert for the movies that killer is revealed to be Johnny

Lee Miller.

For reasons that I still am unclear on.

Totally confused.

Well, I guess the question also is like, there seems to be like, obviously this final,

there's a competition element to it, right?

Because apparently according to Clifton Collins, like Val Kilmer is like writing his

recommendations on his desk and he happened to walk into like his teacher's office and

read the like read the Rex and know that like that Sarah is not being upgraded.

So there's a little bit of competition there.

Can I see something about Sarah being upgraded though, Paul?

Yeah.

Her, one of the reasons she is not recommended to be a profiler is because she panics.

Now that's going to come back to us later on.

She panics.

But again, I have to ask who cares if your job is mostly in an office.

It's okay.

In a computer panic away.

Yes.

Like we don't need to medicate for that.

Just continue to panic and you don't have to.

And or don't be she doesn't have to in order to fulfill the duties of a of a profiler.

She I don't think needs to be in the field.

You know, doing gunplay.

She can be in the office trying to crack the numbers code.

That's the, I think the point of having the team is like, oh,

the good with guns guy goes and does that.

The people that are good at puzzles get to do puzzles and that's a cohesive unit.

Nope.

Nope.

Nope.

Nope.

Everybody knows guns all the time.

Well, but if you are to treat the movie as truth, it is revealed that Johnny Lee Miller,

the whole reason why he has done this is yes, he is a serial killer who has infiltrated

the FBI's serial killer profiling program to figure out who the most worthy person is

for him to challenge.

And that is her.

Like so he's like, oh, wouldn't it be the best coup for me?

Like I don't want to just, I don't want to just deal with it.

I want to find the best of the best.

So this has been for him a long time.

Does he say that?

Because that's, that's interesting because I could not for the life of me figure out what

the genesis is.

Yeah, what the deal was.

He said something like that.

But are you saying Paul that he, he wanted sort of the most challenging prey?

Yes.

Okay.

So here's what's so crazy about him that even the fact that he penetrated the FBI.

Now, both of his parents were murdered in front of him or it seems like both, well,

that we will, we will know they were murdered by him later.

But when we meet him, it seems that they were just murdered.

That alone to me, a 10 years old, that alone to me, it's like I kind of want the FBI flagging

that on someone.

Right.

You would think at a certain point someone would be able to say like, hey, why was his

parents murdered?

Let's just look into that a little bit more.

But me, maybe he's very, very good.

I don't know.

You know what I wish for?

I wish that he had been the one who killed her little sister.

Yes.

Well, there you have something.

And it's, and it's, and he put Clifton Collins Jr. in the wheelchair.

And he, what if he had connections to everybody that they didn't know about what or like the

idea that they float for LL Cool J's character is that, oh, are you doing this as revenge

because you didn't pass the exam?

Like you're trying to get back.

Like did you just walk out the FBI didn't want you?

Like I couldn't figure out Johnny Lee Miller's, you know, it's just not enough time is given

to it at the end.

Like what, what is he also changed an accent?

He changed, like does change acts.

I was, I was, his accent was so slight that I was like, is this, I couldn't quite figure

out if he, I mean, it's strange because he is a British person.

Yes.

His, his character is American.

And then when it is revealed, he is Southern.

Yeah.

When he, when the final twist comes, he, he starts to affect like a weird Southern draw

that wasn't there before.

And I was like, I don't know what this is trying to tell you.

There were notes of that Southern draw early on.

But boy, does it come any?

Oh, I thought it was a different boy.

Like I thought he was like, this is the real me.

Right.

No, it was sort of there at one point, but it is, it is, he's playing fast and loose with

that accent.

I was also sort of amazed early on.

And maybe this is just a product of like movies used to feature like four white men on

a team and no one blinked an eye, but there were so many of them.

And they all look so similar to me.

I genuinely couldn't keep track of them.

Agreed.

I was happy when some of them got killed at the beginning because I was like, I don't

know that guy's deal.

Well, but I was upset that the first person who dies is Christian Slater because I'm

like, well, I understand who that is.

But the guy, like, but the guy who is like, I then there's a gentleman who is, that's

Captain Collins, who is, you know, wheelchairs.

I'm like, okay, that at least gives me another marker.

And then Johnny Lee Miller's American.

And I know who he is because I know him as an actor.

But then there's another British guy who is the guy whose head just pops right off

of his body.

What happened when they all wake up from the coffee?

He looked like a robot.

I thought it was going to be revealed that he was a Westworld robot because you saw strings

in there that looked like.

Oh, God.

Paul.

I would love it.

Well, can I ask something about Christian Slater's death?

Why?

So he's being sprayed with step out of the way.

Yeah.

Liquid nitrous nitrogen.

Nitrogen.

Yeah.

Some sort of, it's a tea juice.

Did you just say step out of the way Jason?

Yeah.

Okay.

So step out of the way.

It was as though he couldn't move, which I did have a question about.

Like, is it paralyzing you?

Immediately paralyzing you.

And then my next question is like, would the rest of the team did not move to also just

take that container, take that master, turn it.

Everybody watches, everybody watches all the traps happen from their frozen, and their

frozen.

Yes, they don't try and intercede in any traps execution.

They just watch it as if they are trapped and they're not.

But here's the thing.

That is one canister of liquid nitrogen that's shooting at his ankles.

Now yes, he could have easily just stepped back, stepped out of the way, done the top of

his body down.

Right.

I don't even want to get into the fact that that is completely impossible.

That would never happen.

But the movie also posits the idea that if it starts at your ankles, it would freeze

your body up to your head and crack in seconds and crack you like a doll.

Like anyway, he breaks like an icicle that drops onto the floor.

He breaks in like so many pieces after being sprayed like by, I mean, if you've not seen

the movie, imagine like a birthday party helium canister is just blowing.

It's not like in T2 where he falls into or whatever, a vat of nitrogen or whatever.

This is a spray of nitrogen that freezes him and he's able to talk.

He's like, stay where you are.

He's still giving commands and I'm like, stop talking.

Take a step to your right.

Stick it to baby steps to your right or someone just move that or turn it off.

Please.

Now, here's because honestly, I have to say there was a part of me watching this because

so many of them are witnessing the traps and just watching the traps happen, there was

a part of me that's like, oh my gosh, that's the horror of this movie.

That's the scariest part.

Yeah, right.

You couldn't do anything.

Yes, is that when confronted with someone in pain, someone suffering an event happening

before your very eyes, like people will freeze and watch and not intervene.

That's where June, we've seen that numerous times on scare tactics.

The premise of scare tactics, the horror prank show is like they put people in these

situations and they often do as they are told or freeze.

But I think the whole point of this program is at the level they're at, they would have

already learned to push through that immediate freeze.

They would have already learned the skill sets and tools to not just be observers to these

tragedies, but to in fact, either intercede or get to it before it happens.

Well, the opening scene is saying, hey guys, don't freeze, be smarter.

And yet they aren't.

And I thought that his death was so bad in the sense that he didn't do anything.

I was like, well, clearly he's the serial killer.

Like, he has set up some sort of contraption to make it look like his body broke into glass.

Now I will say this, you know, I know that you both love interior design and I would love

to show you that if you like interior design, you can actually purchase a broken Christian

Slater.

And I think Scott, can you pop that up there?

This is the body.

It comes on the special mount.

It's on an auction house right now.

Oh my God.

Yeah, the legs are separate.

You can do the whole thing.

Yeah, you can get in there part of his face is coming off.

But again, that's a great centerpiece for a living room.

That's the kind of thing that I feel like we should use our money to buy and then have

it in the, how did this get made house?

I would love it.

Because I think a lot of people don't know that we all live together now.

Yeah.

I know.

And it's a little bit.

By the way, just about how did this get made?

I am, I have become obsessed on Instagram.

There is a wax museum that is auctioning off every one of their wax figures and they're

pretty conservative.

Like they're not, they're not expensive to a certain degree where it's like all of a

sudden I'm like, can I get this Tom Cruise?

Can I get this Conan O'Brien, this J. Lennon?

The J. Lennon one.

The J. Lennon one is the one that I was so close to.

Right.

Why is the J. Lennon one the one you want?

Because I think anyone would love a little J. Lennon in the house.

Wait, it's not little though is my guess.

No, he's a life size.

Yeah, life size.

Yes.

Because then you know what's going to happen and June, this is for you.

If you allow Paul to buy the wax figure of J. Lennon, he's then going to start saying,

hey, I need an antique fire truck to go with the J. Lennon doll.

I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to get a lot of yarn.

I really, sometimes I think about it.

Like if I wasn't in his life, what his living order, I mean, it would just be, you know,

it was just, yes, he would be living in a house of horrors.

Well, especially when you see, like if you can get a J. Lennon for a thousand bucks, why

not?

Like that's what life has opened.

Without you, June, I feel like the 15 foot skeleton that comes out in Halloween is out

year round.

And it's perhaps inside the house.

We have seen many a time.

Now I will say, and I will take all the things in there as you want to throw at me, but

that skeleton was brought to me this home by worship.

That was my idea, but, but I will say that that skeleton is very static and it has a

point of view and it's very beautiful and there's, our neighbors have to have one.

Yes.

So that's, that's a different thing.

And I think that's a beautiful spook and a beautiful scare.

Yes, agree.

I worry about with Paul.

I want to shirt that says a beautiful spook and it's a big skeleton over somebody's

edge.

But, but what I really worry about with Paul and it's, it's honestly scary to think about

is just what if, if given no boundaries, yeah, you know, what he would come up with,

what items, what figurines, what stickers, what it is trickles for me, what kind of, I

don't even, I can't even imagine.

Oh, just the, the kinds of auctions that he would be registering for and what they

would be selling.

Yeah, I think what's always hard for me is when Paul comes home with things framed because

it's like, it's like, it's really hard because I'm like, well, God, I've done this for a

long time.

I've done it for a long time.

I've been, I've been, yeah, it's great.

It's really hard because it's like, it's framed and so when something gets framed, it feels

like it's got to go.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're talking about and you know, in retrospect, in retrospect, those are things I would

get now.

I mean, times change.

You're like the most chilling.

So to you, June, the most chilling words out of Paul's mouth are, I'm having the art

hangers come tomorrow without you knowing why or for what to hang, to hang what?

Listen, I think at this point, we've been together for so long, like, I don't fear that

happening anymore, you know, but we definitely, we definitely had a transitional period.

There were moments.

There were moments.

Now back to this film, my country.

Can I ask you guys a question?

Because like we've said, this is a, this is a, this is a, Rennie Harlan movie who is

like a real author of this schocky era.

And then, you know, like we said, Val Kilmer, LL Cool J, they're Johnny Lee Miller, there's

recognizable names, there's recognized, it's like, it's got a vibe that feeds clearly

expensive, they clearly spent money.

I've never heard of this movie.

Never, whenever, when I clicked it up, I was like, I don't recognize any of these images,

any of this art, I don't know what this is.

You know what I was so disappointed by when it started and even being in that bar scene,

I was like, this is right up my alley.

Yeah, right.

Like, I love, this is going to be fun.

This is going to be so much fun.

And I was so excited and I love the idea of they're all trying to out-profile each other.

And like, I was just like, oh, finally something for me, something for the girls.

You know, but then boy, did it evolve.

Well, it really is.

It's the kind of movie that structurally needs the team to come together, but they never

do.

Well, it's as if the movie never starts.

It's just that people, people just start dying.

Nobody ever knows why.

Nobody ever, it also doesn't do that thing, which some movies do, which is let us the

audience in on information that the main characters don't have.

You know, so we know the trouble there in before they do.

They don't let that happen.

And then for the-

And you guys don't need to be like, you're discovering.

And there's like, the threads where, you know, when the island is brought up in the outer

bangs, Crow, Crowatin or whatever.

Crowatouin, yeah.

Crowatouin, Crowatouin, whatever that was.

Yep.

And then, first of all, what the fuck was that doesn't even cut that doesn't even fold back

in.

And you would think it would be, it would, it would be important information dump.

And it's not.

It doesn't matter ultimately.

Well, that's not why he doesn't.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's not why he's doing this.

He's doing this to find the perfect prey.

It has nothing, no bearing on the rest of the plot.

But again, when it's mentioned, I'm like, oh, okay, this is the movie that we're getting

like revenge or figuring out a mystery of what happened on this island.

Okay.

But you can't like give us, you can't give us busy work because if you're going to take

a moment to explain an island and a, and a mysticism around it or a story like, well,

that's important.

It's, it's not like life.

Like you know, it's like, well, every bit of information here is going to be building

to a larger point, which again, why set up Christian Slater as the creepy guy.

Yeah.

And also you kill him in such a way that it's like, it would have to be insane for him

to even have survived.

Oh, I used a robot.

I did this.

So it's like a very, or if he had just not been standing exactly where he was standing.

That's the other thing is like these traps are, it's like the game mouse trap.

They are so random and, but require such specific situations to unfold perfectly to the

second that is just preposterous.

Like just people moving through the world would not fall into these rhythms and this

exact setups.

But I guess the thing that I keep on coming back to is even like, where's the mystery?

Like kill people in a way where they're not definitely dead.

When you get like three harpoons to the chest, yeah, you're dead.

So you start taking people off the table in a way where it's like, oh, I don't know

because I thought at one point when Clifton Collins like crawls into the freezer room.

By the way, they do collect Christian Slater's body and put it like in like they, they

more get up.

I'm like, at this point, do we need to collect all the pieces?

I feel like we should be solving this.

Like something's going on here.

That's what respect we don't have time to get the gurney to load up the gurney to bring

it into the thing.

It's like, it seems like he's going to be frozen frozen for a bit.

I guess you're right.

He was frozen.

So that's why it's Clifton Collins.

So let's stay in the free.

Like here's the other thing is once everybody's so suspect of each other and once people

are really dying, everybody should just hide.

Oh my God.

Why did he get out of the freezer?

Well, everybody just go hide on your own.

Just told to hide.

He should.

Waited out.

Yes.

Waited out.

But the thing that the thing that I actually really made me insane and I I wanted to throw

the remote at the very end when L. Cool J and Sarah are there and there is a helicopter

in sight, but they've just, you know, they made it out.

Yes.

Oh, yes.

When do you know the situation is clear and resolved?

Yeah.

Basically, like, don't party until you know the situation is cleared and they both say

to each other on the ride home.

Yeah.

And yet, but they're not on the ride home yet.

They're not on one more twist.

Yeah.

They're not on the, now was that intentional to think like I didn't know I didn't think

so Jason.

I didn't think so.

I don't think the movie's smart enough.

Well, but I think that movie made me angry.

I was like, how can Dario you don't even need that helicopter to take off?

Just put them in there somehow.

Yep.

Right.

The same thing you're shooting the helicopter coming to the island.

Just shoot that's other thing to you like the two of them leaving off.

Well, now wait.

So now you're just a line producer.

I'm just trying to make your idea.

We've got to we've got the chopper for one day.

We're going to do in the morning.

We're going because of Southern exposure.

We're going to be looking.

Oh my god.

Paul just wanted to do the one liner for this movie.

Wait, are you giving us day out of dates for this?

I sometimes look and this is the problem that I have now is like not only am I looking

for like that.

I'm like, but why don't they do they could have done it.

They had they had it.

Were they running over that day?

Like I when I start to look at when I look at it as a line producer, I really that's

another level of movie watching.

Like I do think of that often.

I'm like, well, how do they?

How did they get over that?

I must have.

I would they do that.

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One of the things that I think could have been a theme for the movie that is not.

And it is actually the theme of the movie is after the cold open when Christian Slater

and Captain Morris are downloading with Val Kilmer and he's like, basically, here's

how you fucked it up.

This and that and this and that.

You missed this clue.

You missed that clue.

You took longer than anybody else.

Blah blah blah.

He's dressing them down.

She's like, I don't understand how...

What could we have done to save the girls?

Right.

And he says nothing.

Girls already dead.

They couldn't have been saved.

This test was to get you used to not winning.

Right.

And I was like, oh, whoa, wait a minute.

I know.

I struggled with that as well.

I was like, well, that's what this is about.

This is about not winning the best.

I think so.

So there's something and I think I rewound it and watched it twice because there was something

very disturbing about, I'm really unsettling about Val Kilmer's like, worldview on crime.

Because I think what he was saying is, hey, someone gets murdered.

You find out just a regular old murder.

You'll find out in 48 hours if you can get them.

But if you can't, then it's done.

You'll never find them.

It's really unlikely.

So put that over there.

They're never going to get that's never going to solve to which I was like, okay.

And then he's like, but if it's a serial killer, his point of view almost seemed to be you

want them to actually kill someone because then you can start building a profile.

But they never ever.

Wait.

And it almost seems like you want more and more people to die.

So that that's the kind of shit that LL Cool J is investigating.

And as he should.

And by the way, then that would also make Val Kilmer the best killer for this thing.

He should be a zero.

That's the whole thing because what this movie devils to is this moment, the least exciting

I'm pricking my finger to get blood out.

I was like, what is I'm watching a montage of people like, Plink, put a little blood

of things terrible.

As a line producer, how quickly do you think they were able to shoot all that?

Oh, you can bring that up.

You can bring that really quick.

You actually, yeah, you bring it.

You shoot that on another stage while they're doing, well, they're setting up some

skills and true.

That's it.

Yeah.

Do you guys think on this island?

Okay.

This is an island, a remote island that is used as a training facility for the Navy.

How did all these cats get there?

Well, I feel like cats are on island.

Is that like a thing that Alcatraz has a bunch of cats?

I think.

Oh, does it?

Okay.

I think.

Yeah.

I mean, and the cat is dead.

Hung.

Oh, I don't know that.

And there's a badge stuck into it.

I was like, that's the moment that I was like, this crew needs a joke.

Okay.

You know, because I was like, what rank is that cat?

I didn't know the cat was one of the agents.

Is that the cat's badge?

I do want to also just talk about that from the point of view of it doesn't make any

fucking sense because Sarah is brushing her teeth in the bathroom and the lights are

off.

And then when the lights come on, the cat is literally hanging behind her.

So I don't even understand how she approached the sink without seeing a cat hanging from

the ceiling.

Why don't why do you have to have brushing your teeth just have her walk into the room and

see the cat like, ah, yeah.

Like why are we why are we thing is everything is needlessly stepped out?

You know what would have been cool if the Navy knowing that the FBI was coming had also

set a bunch of traps.

Oh, interesting.

Wait, so you're saying, I get so I just want to get the strength of the right.

The fun traps.

Right.

So basically the Navy is like, Hey, you mother fuckers kick us out of our island once

a month or once a year.

So we're going to sabotage it for you on top of your sabotage.

Here's the way I would rewrite it.

So there's this like real kind of rivalry between the Navy and the FBI.

Got it.

Who's going to use classic rivalry?

Classic rivalry.

And so they've set up all of it.

It's heated.

You could say yes, it's a heated rivalry.

They've set up all of these traps, but they're fun.

Right.

Okay.

There's sort of like more like pranks, but they keep on derailing our crew because they

don't know which is which right.

So it could be like a pranker or a yes.

And then the Navy ends up being able to figure out that they're in trouble because some

of their traps either didn't go off the way they expected it or something happened, which

like the Navy is by the way, actually, I'm saying this who was watching those cameras that

were on Val Kilmer.

But nobody did need to take off the did need to take off the island or we guys need to

take off the that's what they reveal is that he stayed on the right and with other FBI

agents and was running the op until presumably Johnny Lee Miller goes finds them, kills them

all and strings him up because Johnny Lee Miller is the puppet.

But or the puppeteers, but at the but at the same point in this.

Okay.

Sorry.

Anyway, I wish it never happened.

It never even started.

And so his crew is immediately killed.

And I guess the question is, so when was his crew immediately killed that night?

Wouldn't it have been fun to cut into the control room and get to see Val Kilmer holding

the port and being like, let's do this.

Let's cue that.

Let's set up this.

Let's do that for a little bit of that's beginning of act two have there be like a little

you could still believe, oh, wait a minute.

Maybe Val is the big bad.

Yeah.

And he's, you know, because the team thinks he flew off the island, but we the audience

know he's talking with and maybe this is his thing.

Maybe he's trying to eliminate them.

Maybe he thinks they're coming for his job or maybe he's just lost his mind or any of

the things that you cast Val Kilmer to represent should be present.

But in fact, none of it is none of the cookie crazy Val Kilmer stuff.

He just gives a speech at the beginning.

And that's it.

And none of the fun antics of the Navy.

No, no, and no Navy pranks.

And so, but again, I guess what I'm looking at too is like if from again, not to look at

from a line producer's point of view, but if I'm a if I'm a military line producer,

I'm like, well, we just wasted all this money.

Like because a clearly

I think military line producers love wasting all the money.

All right. Well, I mean, I'm just looking at it from a bunch.

I'm like, this guy made me rent out this island and they didn't even get there.

All the profilers are dead.

Now I got to do it again.

See, for me, I'm looking at this from a wardrobe department.

Okay, got it.

Okay. So, you know, and I'm like, you know what?

We could have differentiated who a lot of these people were with wardrobe changes.

You know, like have someone be in like a Met Jersey.

I was not a Met.

Something that is truly identifiable so that you can really start to tell some of these

guys apart.

Well, because you want you want a little bit of like personality in these guys.

Now, at the end, I mean, they keep on blaming LL Cool J. It can't be more clear that it's

not LL Cool J, right?

Like it's like he passes every test, but yet Sarah beats the shit out of them.

But why does I may be revealing that my own dumbness here?

Why does LL Cool J shoot that one guy in the, like he shoots Johnny Lee Miller in the

street?

And that's Sarah.

I didn't understand why I didn't either.

Okay.

Unless that makes me feel good.

Unless LL Cool J figured it out.

I figured it out.

If LL Cool J has figured it out, he thinks I'm killing the killer.

But then, but then you would need a moment when she starts beating the shit out of them.

Like, hey, I figured it out.

It's not exactly.

Exactly.

And he starts to prove it.

Again, the only profiler in the mix, if he does do that.

But here's a question I have, though, is she, so she is able to find out that LL Cool J

is not the killer because she puts that special like blue light on his hands.

And that's that.

Which is, by the way, not profiling.

Powder.

It's the powder from, but the powder she uses is from the, the writing on the backs of

the, of their jackets, which really frustrated me because it's like, they've all touched

those jackets.

Correct.

And not only that, not only that, Johnny Lee Miller, when he picks up his hands and it's

revealed that the, the liquid or the whatever is on his hands, it's all over his hands.

Right.

How did he notice?

I don't know.

He must have been, the clock must have been slick with the liquid.

You know, grabbing at it every left.

So when did she turn back those clock?

I mean, I don't know.

What was the cigarette made out of, by the way?

Oh, it's got acid in it.

I mean, say it had acid in it.

I mean, but the amount of how did he make that?

How did he insert acid into a cigarette in like minutes?

And by the way, not even like he's, so he's in, he's put so much acid in the cigarette

that if the, if the cigarette touched the ground it burned through.

So that would mean that if you touched it to take it out, her fingers would have just

melted off, right?

Yes.

How did it, how did the cigarette exist in a pack of cigarettes without the acid just dripping

straight through the, the paper activated by the lighter?

I guess so.

I was also thinking the whole time like as soon as shit started to hit the fan at 10 a.m.,

I was like, sweetie, go have a cigarette.

Yeah.

Like it is not that like, please fuck the pet.

Like go have your cigarette.

You are about to die.

Wow.

Okay.

So you're at, you're at that.

And the thing that I wanted to say to you is, if this movie was at all fun, I wouldn't

be looking so critically at it.

I would be willing to be like, oh, and I loved it when she lit the cigarette and it was

acid and she melted into the thing because that caused this to happen.

That was so fun and it really paid this off for what it, no, because it seemed so random.

Each thing seemed so random.

And I know that it's every kill is tailored to that person's particular weakness.

Birds is cigarettes and this person's is panic.

Yes.

And he's trying to push everybody's buttons, but it's not really there.

It's not satisfying in any way.

You know, well, I think that, you know, look, does this movie work?

Absolutely not.

Is it well acted?

Probably not to the degree that I need it to be because I'm not ever feeling the only

time I felt tense in this entire movie and not frustrated was when the moment when

Christian Slater came up to the car window.

I was like, uh oh, cool.

What are we going to see?

Only tension moment and though because the rest of it is really like kind of bare knuckle

brawling.

It's like there's no, like, you know, that famous scene in one battle after another where,

you know, they're doing a blood test.

So cinematic.

So cool.

Love it.

And it's like the same thing.

Randy Harlan Paul Thomas Anderson.

But it's like, how did you make the, like the most exciting detective moment is a machine

telling you who is the person and guess what the machine's wrong?

Yeah.

How did he get the machine to be wrong?

How does he put blood under her finger?

Right.

But he put blood.

He moved the blood, I guess, which is really, it's unsatisfying in a way that like, you

know, when you pull at the threads of the reveal of at the end of usual suspects, you know,

and it's like, oh, wow.

He really did all of these things and you kind of get glimpses of all of the ways in which

he kind of was able to do it or you, it all kind of falls into place.

None of that is present here.

No.

Like it's a, it's a big reveal without any supporting data or any supporting imagery that

helps us understand how Johnny Lee Miller, how and why John, I guess we're meant to believe

he's just wants to kill.

He wants the best, the best, the best, the best.

But he wants to kill.

He wants a good, um, wouldn't a, uh, opponent, wouldn't be Val Kilmer.

You would think.

He seems to know the most, but I think that I was also really shocked that as soon as

they suspected someone of being the, uh, uns, what do they call it?

Unsub.

Oh, yeah.

Unsub.

By the way, the original title of the film unsub unsub unsubscribed.

Oh, my.

I mean, by the way, they're like, oh, yeah, the studio thought that mind hunters is better.

It's like, you think unsub, we're going to see this week unsub unsub unsub unsub unsub

unsub.

Is it a submarine movie?

Unsub actually makes me believe every bit of bad writing that we have having a problem.

It's like, if you, if you after writing a great script, we're like unsub.

Like no, no.

Like that level, like you didn't do it.

You didn't do enough work.

Okay.

But if they, they all, as soon as they accuse someone of being the unsub, the entire crew

immediately pulls their gun out on them.

And it looks like they're about to shoot down.

I'm like, I know you are like a member of law enforcement on some level.

Like how about detain them?

How about arrest them?

How about take a set of handcuffs and handcuffs them?

Like I guess they do that with all the cool drip.

But I'm like, it seems like the immediate response is you have to die now.

Yes.

Immediately.

Immediately.

Everybody panics all the time.

Well, they are, they are panicked.

They are.

And they are meant to be the elite.

And at no point are they like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

We are the best of the best.

We need to get our act together and work together to solve this problem and get out as,

as a group.

And in fact, it's, it truly is everyone for themselves.

Everyone is acting so weirdly selfishly.

They're not a good team.

And maybe you could, and maybe if we rewatched it, you would see Johnny Lee Miller.

No, Jason.

Don't give it up.

So in discord or something like that, but it's just not in them.

It's not there.

And if you say this, if I was going to go back in the movie, the only thing I would

be watching is Johnny Lee Miller's jacket, because clearly he's held everything in his

jacket.

His jacket is, oh, I got remotes that got trained.

Yeah.

Like he would be buzzing.

He is, he is wearing like, I've seen this before.

Like Jason, you might have seen this in some travel websites.

These like travel jackets where you can put them on, but you can also shove your computer

back.

So it looks like a jacket.

It's got like harnesses and 43 pocket.

Yeah.

Charging cables.

Has he killed since he was 10 years old?

I have to imagine yes.

Yeah.

Wouldn't it have been great if it turns out that the, that he is responsible.

He is the case study that Christians later and Catherine Morris, that house that, that

is murder.

It was like that the person they're studying in profiler class is in fact part of the

class.

You know, they should have made.

Yeah, they should have been the most elusive serial killer.

Then it's like, let's recreate his last crime scene.

Let's do this.

I will say this.

She doesn't even profile them at the end.

The way she gets them at the end is through thing.

I mean, literally just finger printing.

Like it's, there's nothing about it.

She doesn't go, of course, you did this and you did this.

She just figures it out because of the, the fingerprints.

So it's like, she doesn't get a win.

She's not even good.

It's not even good.

Oh, yeah.

And he just confesses, right?

She doesn't do anything.

She's looking, she is looking at LL Cool J's hands.

Does not see the glowy substance looks confounded and he holds his hands up to be like, dummy.

I really believe it.

It's me.

Had he not done that, she would never have checked his fingers.

I think she would have thought she was the murderer.

I think she might have been like, oh no, did I do it?

She would hold her gun out on herself.

I'll take myself out just in case.

Oh my God.

That's the best thing.

And then he's like, I killed my parents and nobody ever asked me.

Nobody ever said, did you do it or why?

Nobody ever asked me.

He just wants to be recognized as the murderer.

I guess.

Again, I want to talk about this from the other perspective of saying, LL Cool J, jump

some board.

I'm here to monitor because he's been spending too much money on props and renting

houses and fly sound effects.

And then what you reveal is, I wanted to be with the best of the best because I am a serial

killer.

He coordinated his appearance there because he is a master of serial killer and he's like,

I needed to do a cat and mouse.

But yet there are no clues.

It's really just countdown clocks.

But again, it's like there's no reason to feel excited about any of these choices.

Like, no, I just never understood where the clocks came from.

If you had told me like, oh, yeah, my parents died at the strike of midnight or I killed

them at the strike of midnight or I was assaulted by a clock.

Like, I don't know.

I needed some.

I needed some.

I was assaulted by a clock.

Another great key shirt.

I needed some.

I just imagined the scene.

Why do you care about clocks so much?

Imagine the scene that we never saw, which is John E. Lee Miller packing to go to the

island.

It's like everything in those.

It's a dozen watches.

It's 500 clocks.

By the way, almost they're all not automatic, but they're all manual clocks.

So again, if you're next to John E. Lee Miller, all you're hearing is, like he is a walking

time bomb.

Literally.

Also, one of the traps is like, I think three crossbows.

Yes.

Like that one guy gets hit with three arrows that are fired.

I don't know from what, but I got to assume crossbows.

Okay, but here's my question about that trap.

The initial trap before that trap set off is someone getting electrocuted in the water.

Maybe other favorite line in the favorite line in the home movie, which was like so.

Like basically it's like this action scene where he's trying to get just get to reach

down and just oh my god.

The first of all, that was a very long sequence of watching.

So long.

He's got to shoot out a cement wall.

And he says that the breaker rooms behind there and as he's shooting, I'm like, is he

just going to try to shoot his way in there?

We going to be watching this.

I thought so too.

I thought so too.

It was so drawn out.

Easy.

And then you realize, no, he's just shooting sort of like but holds.

And in foothold.

So he can boulder like so he can free solo from one room to another.

So he can throw the circuit breaker so that he and Clifton Collins Jr. won't be elected

you.

I tell you when he started to free solo, I was like, I can't take the light in the water,

flip the circuit breaker on their own.

Wouldn't that surge?

Flip the circuit breaker in turn?

I don't know about the engineering of it.

I was like, I don't know.

I think that that's an old building that I feel like there's a certain.

But here's my question though.

So initially the trap was you're going to be electrocuted by the water.

But then and nobody was nobody.

I think happened to be.

Okay.

But then there's a double trap.

Whether or two watches remember.

Oh, I don't remember.

So before that trap, before that trap, they found two watches which says, so which says

this is the next one's going to be a double murder, which it looks like it's going to

be for.

I see.

See first thing and I think some mystery and what's his face.

But then it's going to be those two guys that are in the water.

What's that?

But then it is just one.

Yes.

Because they survive.

The first thing didn't go off.

But again, it would have been three if both LLKJ and Clifton Collins Jr. had died in

the electrocution and those guys shut the water off and got the crossbow arrows.

Three people would have done.

The movie is a mess.

The movie like it's also like he could have like, so I guess at any given point, the movie

could have been over.

Yes.

Well, at any given point, the movie could have started.

Like it could have started.

It started.

And finished.

But the movie exists in like liminal space.

Okay.

It's time out of time.

But it really is.

So here's my question though.

I know he references this and there's a flashback to Johnny Limmiller at the front of

the line on the front lines heading toward that boat.

But what is the justification for why he was in the front when the bomb goes off on

the boat?

I think so.

He can set off the bomb.

Even though it was a very simple trip wire retroactively now that we know he's the bad

guy, I think he needs to blow up that boat so they can't get off.

He needs.

So I think he's purposefully sabotaging one to it.

I mean, I know, but he's also crazy.

That's true.

But I think he probably figured it all out.

I mean, he seems again, say what you will about Johnny Limmiller.

He's planned a lot of stuff and he and with with very, you know what you're right.

But why are we drilling down on three murders versus two?

Yeah.

You know, he did plan a lot of stuff and a lot of stuff worked.

He's pretty effective.

And when I say it's like the game most tramp, that is what it's like.

It is like everything most deals on the verge of being a Rubig Goldberg machine, a Rubig

Goldberg murder machine.

Which is the name of my punk rock band.

I love it.

And it really is like so convoluted.

You know, like the one the crossbow one, that makes the most sense.

Turn this wheel crossbow.

Go great.

Okay, I love that.

Some of the other ones are so weirdly like.

I still why train his blood.

Why?

And why write all of those numbers in blood in the blood to communicate?

He's a real sickle.

You get a profile of anybody.

I know a lot about this.

But they don't they have no interest in solving any of the mysteries.

And they just want to find the trap.

Here's the thing.

But here's the thing.

They should have really started not just pointing fingers and trying to shoot each other

and blaming each other, but really started to try to find out a lot about each other.

Yeah, right.

Because that's the movie.

Absolutely.

And it's like, well, Johnny Lee Miller, like, why did you?

What were your parents like?

Like, what happened?

And also, why did he kill them?

Yeah, yeah.

Because he's sasicco.

That's all we need to know.

We just need to know he's a killer.

A killer sickle.

A killer sickle.

Hey, I don't smell him.

I don't smell him.

I just tell him.

Oh boy.

Oh god.

I'm just telling you what the what the what is.

Look, obviously we had opinions about this movie.

The people out there with a different opinion.

Oh god.

Wolves of Glendale.

I'll play it soon.

All when Jason June talked a lot about what makes a movie good or not, but everyone

knows they're actually full of shame.

We need a second opinion.

Some of that knows what they're talking about.

We need a second opinion.

We need a second.

We need a second opinion.

So surprisingly, Jason earlier in the podcast, you said I didn't ever heard of this movie.

Many people have not.

This is one of the lowest scene films that we've done in a long time.

I know this because only 735 reviews for a movie that came out 20 years ago.

That's pretty low for us.

And 77% are 5 star reviews.

Yeah.

And you know, look, there's this is the people that found it loved it.

Well, yes.

And you know, and a lot of them are just taking a lot of anger out on the people who didn't

like it.

You know, don't listen to those couch potato critics.

Give it one starts better than that.

Right.

We've read of those a million times, but I'm just going to kind of hit ones that I thought

were a little bit better like Patricia Fentris, who titled a review, got to say, I outright

love this film.

Da, da, da, and you will too.

I'm sure.

Now Patricia writes, this was an amazing movie.

I have to be honest, when I saw the DVD on the shelf, I wasn't too sure about it.

The cover caught my attention and so did the title.

So I picked it up, took a look at the cover and a little better saw one of my favorite

rappers and actor was in it.

And I said, hmm, and I took a look at the preview in the back.

And after reading the preview, I was still left a little unsure, but I was interested

because L.L.

Cool J wasn't it.

I thought about it for a bit because I was a little disappointed in some of LL's earlier

movies, you know, Deepu C caught up and H2O, but I said, hell, I'll try it.

And after watching the movie, I am glad I picked it up because it is for sure going into

my growing DVD archive for good.

If you like L.L. Cool J like I do, you will for sure love his acting in this one.

And if you like really good who done its cop movies, movies that keep you guessing and

scratching your heads or movies leaving you saying, I would never have thought of that.

Or I never knew or saw that coming or really didn't decent action movies or thrillers,

then this is a movie for you.

You will for sure love this movie.

Or even if you want to try to get into one of those kinds of movies, this is kind of

a great one to start off with.

If for sure left me floored with my mouth open saying no freaking way, how in the hell

and just left in awe, I cannot say how much I enjoyed this movie.

It is a must see.

Wow.

I mean, not just an incredible review, but it beautifully acted.

Yes.

I mean, one of the best.

I mean, really, I will say like you brought that to life.

Yeah.

And if you're just listening at home, but if you were to be watching Paul really find the

truth of inside and do.

That's all I can do.

That's all I can do.

It's so available to you.

You know, this is the way I kind of am able to get my acting out.

You know, it's like they don't pay me to act.

They pay me to wait.

It's I'll act for free whenever you get.

And so interesting.

I will say now that I'm thinking about it, LL Cool J, I think stealthily becoming a

how did this get made also absolutely.

And in the way I love watching him on screen.

He's so watching.

So endlessly watchable.

You know, my parents made me destroy my LL Cool J album when we were on a board again,

Christian moment because they had heard about LL Cool J.

And it was and it was the I'm bad album.

So it was early LL and and man, I was the real rough moment because I saw my like in my

mind, if I could wear like the black leather pants and the big chin, I would have a can go

hat.

I would have done all that stuff.

But you didn't you couldn't convince your mom that ladies love Cool J.

I mean, I was trying to I thought that she would be open to that, but no, she wasn't.

And that's heartbreak.

You know, and I know it makes me so mad like as a parent now, I'm like, I wish you

had just never gotten those albums to have a kid get them and then have to destroy them.

Oh, yeah.

I had to destroy the real destruction.

Three albums were destroyed in three different occasions.

One was Poisons.

Look what the cat dragged in.

Okay.

Had to break that album over my knee and then throw it in the trash can and vinyl vinyl.

Like also just take it from your child and walk away with it.

No.

And the fact that you had to do.

Take it out of circulation.

Yeah.

And it was a it was a low garbage day.

So I saw it in the garbage for quite some time.

Like, you know, so that was tricky.

You have to stop.

You have to stop.

This is too much for well.

And then the other one was in excess suicide blonde.

That was a CD because my mom thought it was promoting suicide.

Oh, even though that song is not about promoting it's not at all that.

But okay, that I was because I was like in excess makes no sense.

That CD was just taken from me.

I didn't have to destroy it.

But I had the case but never had the CD again.

And then the LL Cool J was tricky because LL Cool J was a tape and.

Just tape over it?

No, I it was it was a tape that was like bought at the store.

So it wasn't like that.

And I had to smash it with a hammer.

I remember where it was on my front porch.

Okay.

Honestly cut cut.

Stop the recording.

I cannot take anymore.

That was a that was that the LL Cool J was the one that hurt the most because I just

loved it so much.

There's a listener.

Do you think there's anybody who listens to this podcast for whom they

discovered it at a young age and their parents said you can't listen to this.

Like are we the LL Cool J?

Oh,

interesting.

Were you a young person who was told this is for grownups or something?

I've talked to many people who tell me that they listen to this with their kids but

then their hand is very closely on the volume button because they never know when it's

going to be or very tricky.

But they are they are taking that they're taking that risk.

Yeah, okay.

We're not a dirty, dirty show but every I think it's less about the language.

Yeah.

But I'm so I'm so curious if there's anybody.

If you're out there, you know, let us know if you're parents.

Let us know if we were ever forbidden in your house.

I will read you one other review just because it was pretty good.

This is from that we had to go to IMDB to find more reviews because Amazon was a little

empty.

We went to IMDB and found this one by sweet, lovely, crazy butterfly.

We also reviewed in 2005.

Both of these are from 2005.

These reviews.

I have been reading comments where people say some situations are over the top and that

they act silly and do stuff that are hard to believe.

Well, seeing as they are professional profilers and must have great minds, what did you expect?

Of course, the whole plot was a bit dramatic but hey, the dude is crazy and brilliant.

What did you expect?

It was a fantastic movie and I failed to see why people are so into putting down great

movies.

I bet some sought twice just to find something wrong.

Then again, I agree some actors could be different but the whole team fits perfectly.

So why the hell are you complaining?

In my opinion, the best part was when they all fall asleep because of the coffee and when

Sarah changes the time to stay 15 minutes behind.

The clever stuff and Nick's death was the most well thought out in my opinion.

Great job indeed.

10 out of 10.

What if one single person had said, I don't drink coffee?

You know what I mean?

I'm just going to hydrate.

I'm just going to drink water.

Yeah, I don't need to get just one.

Yeah, I have a weird reaction to caffeine.

I don't do coffee.

You know, like I've never been in a room with everybody.

It is six to seven other people and every person is like, yep, coffee, let's go.

I was right in my thought that this was shot primarily because a line producer saw an

easy way in.

It was because this is a place, a fake village that they were able to get used by the

Dutch government.

So it's a fake village where right.

It's a government.

Yes.

Wow.

Yeah.

And so you can actually see a lot of Dutch writing if you look closely at the poster,

something the wall.

Now, see that's, boy, I like that.

There's something interesting about that.

But there's also something that makes no sense.

It's really hard to put a serial killer story inside of only law enforcement.

Yes.

Like there are no civilians being killed by Johnny Lee Miller, right?

Like he's only praying on FBI agents, right?

I'm 100% right.

And that's weird because you don't have that it could happen to anybody fear.

He is purposefully going after the best of the best.

So it really doesn't make any, you would think that he would be leveraging killing innocents.

And there should be something he's doing in a trapping danger in innocent law.

But they were in a trap situation where they had to find a serial killer in the, in the

economy again, not to not saying that even as a joke, but put them in a live situation

where there could be a lot more.

Here's what it is.

Here's what it is, even with the circumstances that there are that we have.

The Navy is still there.

There's a lot of information.

There have been a series of deaths on this naval base on this island that the Navy so

far has been unable to figure out.

So they're bringing in the best of the best profilers and they've got to figure out.

And then you find out it's one of their own and he's been going and killing Navy people

and blah, who knows.

I don't know what but that they're, I guess then they are not innocent really either.

I'm trying to, it doesn't matter.

I hear that I say so much work has been put into getting the script back at, but everyone

agreed to this movie and worked their asses off.

LL Cool J lost 40 pounds, traveled with the Philadelphia police department for weeks to

figure out how to play this character.

Drift and Collins, Jr.

He decided to just take a wheelchair out to Hollywood Boulevard and acted in this way

to make sure that he was playing it accurately.

Here's the two things that I thought you would really like.

Gerard Butler was supposed to play the Johnny Lee Miller role but then dropped out.

I'm out.

Would have been great.

Now the original cast that they wanted, it was supposed to be Ryan Philippi, Reese

witherspoon and their boss was going to be either Christopher Walken, Martin Sheen or Gary

Bucy.

Not a, not bad, not bad.

Not bad.

And of course, and everybody younger, that's like a younger school.

Which I think is a little bit more fun.

The other thing that was interesting is apparently there's an alternate ending where LL Cool J

kills Johnny Lee Miller's character.

And I have a feeling, just reading that now for the first time that that's what we see

at the end.

Oh no, I guess it's a Johnny Lee Miller's wearing a bulletproof vest.

I don't know.

That's how he gets away with that.

But like, what if LL Cool J had just shot him in the head?

No one's using headshots.

No, yeah, nobody's putting one in the brain.

I'll, Johnny Casper in Miller's crossing, always put one in the brain.

Nobody's doing that or John Wick, you know, body shot, body shot head shot.

You know, what are we doing here?

Now, you know what, you may like mine hunters, but I'm going to stick with Ali Walker, Julian

McMahon and Robert Davie.

Those are my profilers.

Four seasons, four seasons.

Oh yeah.

Any final thoughts on this movie?

Oh, this was, I will say, because we're getting there, not worth it.

No, you know, not really worth it at all.

My favorite, the thing that I loved the most, I loved this era of boxy vulva.

That when the opening cold open, the whole thing takes place, you know, like old school

boxy vulva station wagon.

I was like, give me this.

I love it.

I had one of those.

Oh, yeah.

For a little spell, we had one of those and it, you bring them back.

Yes.

People think people, like, I feel like Carcomies think we want these sleek looking, you

know, curvy lines on cars.

They all look the same now.

And we don't want that.

I know we want unique looking cars.

Yeah.

Even if they're not the most aerodynamic.

Yeah.

Who cares?

I mean, who cares?

If the movie did anything, it did that, which was make us think about car design and representation

in the automobile industry.

I don't want to say about this.

Again, I think it was just hard for me because I was so excited and I thought it was for

me and then it wasn't.

To set up put so many interesting things into motion, including Val Kilmer.

I was like, fuck, Val Kilmer is going to be in this.

And I was excited about Christian Slater.

Everything that I thought was going to happen didn't happen, but not in a good way.

I agree.

I will say one other thing if, because it did remind me so much of of law-abiding citizen,

that if you've not listened to our episode a few weeks ago from last looks, somebody

from the film, I can't name who, they asked me anonymous, gave us some great details about

some of those gimmicks and effects and what went in behind them and a whole bunch of

stuff.

Oh, that's cool.

And also sent me a picture.

And Jesus would mean nothing to you, but the rap shirt was the gun.

From the funeral gun, the one that pops up the robaca.

Yeah.

That's that was the rap shirt.

That was the rap.

Yeah, they knew what they were making.

But all right, fun.

Well, pleasure seeing you both here as always.

Oh, wow.

We really did it.

We really did it.

Thanks so much for listening to How To Disget Made.

If you have a correction or a mission from this episode that you want us to hear, well,

you can leave us a voice mount 619 P.A. U.L. ASK.

That 619 Paul, ask already comment on our discord at discord.gg slash HDTGM.

Tune in next week to listen to our last looks episode.

We respond to all of the best messages that you have left for us.

And we'll announce next week's movie that we'll be covering on the show.

Plus, Jason is always joining me on last looks to chat about our favorite TV shows, movies,

music, books, whatever is on our mind.

Sometimes we just hang out.

And if you need even more How To Disget Made before Friday's new episode, know that we

release classic episodes from the vault every single Tuesday.

If you listen on Apple podcasts or Spotify, please make sure you are subscribed to our

feed and you have automatic downloads turned on in the show settings that really helps

us.

And we appreciate it.

So make sure you got those automatic downloads turned on.

And lastly, I got to give a huge thanks to our behind the scenes team.

I'm talking about our producers, Scott Sonny Molley Reynolds, our engineer, Casey Hopeford,

and our social media manager, Zoe Applebaum.

We will forever be thankful to the one and only Avril Halley.

That's all I got people.

See you next week on last looks.

Bye for now.

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