The JOOLA Lawsuit, Ben's Impossible Draw, and the $1M Slam

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I think the PPA hates Ben Johns.

All right.

I'm going to lay out the case for this.

Tilly, what we're trying to do here, maybe Zane has to redo his list.

Zane literally has a list of skinniest big-a-ball players that are good at football.

I do.

That's what I'm thinking.

I'm just trying right now to pair up with the box of visions.

I'm comparing across divisions.

Oh my gosh.

I'm going to fly a dollar and have you fun.

All right, guys.

Welcome back to the pickle pod.

I am no longer in Hanoi Vietnam, although it might seem like it.

Based on my Wi-Fi connection, I'm actually here in Sacramento, California.

Flu directly from Hanoi to Sacramento to come play.

Another tournament to come do a pickle pod with Nico.

Nico, you're going to be in town here, too, aren't you?

That's right.

I'm just like two hours away in Reno.

I'll be over there probably tomorrow to check it out.

Hopefully I can catch you before you get eliminated.

Yeah.

Well, good thing you'll be here on Wednesday and Thursday.

That's good.

Yeah, no, it's great to see you again, Nico.

But yeah, so we don't have anything to talk about really this week, but I think we're

going to make it a very fun episode.

Because we do have stuff like the Yola lawsuit.

We're going to get to a bunch of comments and whatnot.

We've got the US open and the pickleball slam going on.

This is Nico's idea.

We have a pound for pound, top 10 in pickleball rankings.

I love that.

We've got some fun stuff going on in this episode.

So, stick with us.

All right.

Nico, where do you want to start?

Yeah, let's start with the US open.

For those of you who are new-ish to pickleball, you may not realize how big of a deal the US

open is, right?

So I came into pickleball maybe like three, four years ago, right when, like maybe the

last time that pros were really playing in the US open, like PPA pros.

But I found out it's going to have like 4,000 players and just 55,000 spectators, 60

courts.

It's going to be on CBS Sports Network.

So US open pickleball, no real PPA pros, but still a big deal.

Zane, first off, I'm going to ask you, do you wish that you could still play in the US

open?

Like, it's gone, but it feels like he probably had some great experiences there.

Why can't it be part of the PPA?

Yeah.

Well, I mean, I think it's hard to say no real PPA pros there when you've got probably

the PPA pro there in Annelie.

So, yeah, Nico, wrong again.

And we also got Jay.

We got Annelie is playing with Jay.

I don't know how the hell Jay got permission to play.

Frankly, no, I'm kind of glad that we don't play the US open.

Like, it was fun, but now the way that it's sort of scheduled where you play singles

on the first Sunday, and then there's a few random days of like split age and stuff,

and then the pro events are the next weekend again.

Like, that sort of schedule is just not something most of us want to do at this point when we're

already on the road for so long.

So like, that was the complaint with scheduling previously, but I do think they do, you know,

a great job of obviously getting like tons and tons of people in there.

It, they do a good job of it being like, it's a pickleball party.

Like, it's a party that happens to have some pickleball going on.

I don't miss it all that much, but I think it's generally good for the sport.

I don't know.

You ever been?

I have not been.

I almost played with Thomas.

So we were going to play, he wanted to play four or five doubles, and I was going to go down

and play, but then decided to go to PPA Sacramento instead.

Not sure if that was the right play or not.

I'm going to play in PPA Sack, but it seems like, and they may be correct me if I'm wrong,

but the US Open might be the best amateur pickleball tournament there is.

Would you say this is the biggest amateur, best amateur tournament?

Biggest amateur tournament?

Sure.

Best amateur tournament's got to go to beer city open, always.

But I would put US Open probably close to that.

It's certainly huge.

Yeah, it's a fun, a fun tournament if you're just there to like, sort of hang out, which

the pros aren't.

I'm definitely in the minority of people who's like, doesn't super love the US Open.

Everybody that goes and plays loves it.

They've got like 4,000 people playing.

I guarantee if they had more course, I bet you they could get 10,000 people playing.

There's so many people on these weight lists.

It's brutal that even get in.

Yeah.

It was tough, even for like Thomas had to try and pull some strings to try and get us

in.

So the lottery and the draws huge.

But it's on my bucket list.

I haven't been to beer city open either.

I have only been to, when it comes to like big pickleball tournaments, I've been to worlds

and I've been to USA pickleball nationals.

And so I would say like between the party that is beer city open, nationals and kind of

lore behind qualifying and golden ticket, the PPA worlds and this tournament, that's probably

like the big four maybe.

But yeah, looks huge.

Looks fun.

Everybody was asking me if I was going to go and I just honestly I didn't realize how big

it was.

And of course, Anneli Waters, as you mentioned, is going.

So no top PPA pros besides Anneli Waters and J.D.

Ville, which to your point, I have no idea how J got the approval.

Like I think Anneli can basically do whatever she wants.

Like don't tell the PPA this, but I'm sure that really whatever she wants she gets,

right?

But and I guess she wanted J. So they're playing together.

Who doesn't want J?

And exactly, you know, for sure I do.

But one question for you.

So I'm pretty sure Anneli and J are going to smoke everybody in this draw.

There are some good players playing from the APP.

You got Sophia Seven, Megan Fuzz, Jaclyn Row, Aiden Shank, Spencer Leneer.

My question is, in a tournament like this, last year Anneli Waters played with Andre Agassi.

They did not win it.

I think they maybe won two rounds.

Who is the worst player she could play with and still win this tournament in mixed doubles?

I might have to throw my hand in the ring.

That was my immediate thought was you, but I didn't want to continually punch a guy when

he's down.

No, I think there are players far worse than me that she could win this with.

I honestly thought that she was going to win it with Andre last year.

And I still feel like they could have had they played a better strategy.

Last year when she played with Agassi, she really didn't poach the way that she needed

to win.

I think she could carry a five-five guy to a win in that tournament.

Five-five.

So Anneli Waters and a five-five can be Sophia Seven and Jaclyn Row.

Probably.

I would bet on Anneli and the five-five.

I mean, there's a good high likelihood that Anneli is the best player on that court, even

with those.

100%.

No slight to Sophia or Jac, but she's just that good.

I mean, from the outside looking at you look, I'm in the UPA, MLP, PPA, bubble of pro-pickleball.

How relevant do you feel like the US open is in terms of the pro scene?

It seems to me the US open is a bigger deal than any other non-UPA tournament.

It's clearly after that.

It's ahead of any APP tournament, I would guess.

I don't know what other tournaments there are that it would be.

It's probably I think a bigger deal than any USAP nationals for pro stuff.

Where would you rank it in terms of pro tournaments?

Yeah, I would say basically the two tournaments that are closest to each other are happening

at the same weekend.

I would say maybe APP, maybe PPA Sacramento might be the lowest of low on the PPA tour.

US open might be the biggest non-PPA tournament.

I would say that's right probably where you have it.

More people for sure are going to be tuning in to the PPA to watch pro-pickleball from

a pro perspective, even with no Anneli waters, even with no Hayden Patrick Quinn, no Anna

Bright.

You'll still have more viewership, I believe, with the PPA event.

It's kind of not to drink the PPA, UPA, cool aid, but that's how much of a stranglehold

it has on pro-pickle, that the worst version of the PPA is better than the best version

of anything else in pickleball.

Yeah, well, I guarantee you the pickleball slam is going to do better numbers than PPA

Sacramento, at least in its couple hour slot that it has.

So do you know much about that?

Million dollars on the line.

Million dollars on the line.

I have yet to watch anything more than highlight reels of any of the pickleball slams.

I know Andre Agassi has been in it a bunch and is undefeated.

I know we have battle of the sexes going on this tournament.

So Anneli and Genie against James Blake and Agassi, right?

And they're going to play singles and doubles this time.

Is that new?

Yeah, I think the format is new.

I know it's guys versus girls.

I just don't know how the singles versus the doubles works.

Previously, I think it was all old tennis farts.

I think they had Rodic, Agassi, Mackinro, and I think it was Chang last time.

I know Agassi and Graff were involved in one previously as well.

I think they might have had Anneli or somebody in there one of the last time.

The way that I think the format works is this.

It's two singles and one doubles match.

I could be completely wrong, but my understanding is Genie is going to play Andre and Anneli

is going to play James Blake in singles.

Each win is worth one point and then doubles is two points.

Anneli takes all million dollars.

The question is, what chance do the men have at winning any of these matchups?

The only chance they have is Andre beating Genie.

I don't think that's a greater than 50% chance.

I remember when this came out and at least they've modified the format a little bit, but

I don't care for this format because I think that Genie and

it's a lose, lose for real pro pickleball.

What's most likely going to happen in the doubles match and they're playing for a million

dollars.

I hope this doesn't happen, but when you're playing an exhibition type of thing like this,

a lot of times you string along the other team.

You don't blow anybody out.

Genie and Anneli should blow out Andre and James in doubles.

I think that they both are the favorites in their singles matches too, but the last,

I want to beat down.

I want them to prove, this is what pro pickleball is.

I don't want them to string along to an 11-6, comfortable 11-6 win when it could be 11-0

or 11-1 or whatever that is.

I just want them to actually go 100%.

The only way this is interesting is if they actually go 100%.

This is when Jake Paul boxes an actual boxer and you're like, I want,

Anthony Joshua to knock him out and break his jaw.

That's what is good for boxing, maybe not the best for entertainment.

I guess at that point it was, but I agree.

I think that this is probably more for tennis players than it is for pickleball players

to be quite honest.

The event, like more people watching it.

That's fine.

Why they've done such good numbers previously in tennis or in these events.

I think so too.

Then I think about it, I'm like, all right, who could use a million dollars the most?

It's surprisingly, I think it's probably Analy Waters.

It's probably lowest net worth out of all these people.

Maybe if you've got the best player with the lowest net worth, even though she's still

worth a bunch, hopefully that sets up an Analy that is motivated to win.

We finally get one of these battle of the sexes where the women just dominate.

I have seen coach of the stars, Matt Manassi coaching up some of these players.

You never know with the skills that he has, maybe Blake Agassi can pull on upset, but

I actually think he was coaching both sides.

A little double agent there.

He coaching everybody.

He's an Analy Waters, of course.

Who does he coach first and then does he sell all the secrets to the other?

Sounds like something he would do.

Are you going to be tuning in to watch it?

I am.

I am curious to see.

Look, Analy is going to win her two matches.

There's no doubt about that.

She's going to win.

Is she going to string them along or not?

My hope is no.

Yes.

All right.

That would be the best case scenario for Pickleball, probably worst case scenario for ESPN.

We'll see what happens.

I don't know if there's $1 million on the line.

I don't know if there's betting on the line or not, but I always wonder what is the back-end

conversations with someone like Analy Waters like, hey, do not embarrass these people on television.

Or is it just, you do you, here's $1 million.

Does her instinct to play it easy?

Just come from the fact that she can win anytime she wants or is it come from higher up?

I don't know.

I don't know if she has the instinct of playing it easy.

We played some exhibition matches before and she might take it easy a little bit, but

at the end of the day, she's not going to lose.

I think it's close.

She's going to turn it up to 100%.

She's like a Michael Jordan in practice type of thing.

If it gets close, she's turning it on.

She's not going to lose.

Yeah, it's how nice does she let them get six points or whatever that is.

Generally, there's not those sort of instructions for at least never in anything that I've been

a part of, but I feel like it's kind of like you don't say it out loud, but it's kind

of understood type of thing.

When you do play with the pros, when you do play with the pro, you do your clinic and

then they're like, all right, if you can score point, if you can beat Zane, you get a free

paddle.

You don't just go there and just smoke every single 3.0, 11.0 and hit them repeatedly.

I feel like saying even you take it easy on them.

That's probably what Anneli's doing.

Yeah.

No, everybody generally does in those sort of situations.

I'll be tuning in.

You tuning in?

Yeah, I'll be tuning in.

We'll watch it together, Zane.

It's on Wednesday.

I'll go find you.

I'll be in tact.

We'll go to the fourth quarter and see.

We'll go to the wild wings.

Let's stream this to a watch party.

Let's do a watch party.

I don't know how we do this.

I'll give you guys a Zane's personal phone number and he'll tell you where to go.

Yeah, perfect.

We'll figure it out.

We'll figure it out.

Maybe Tom's watch bar.

I don't know.

There's a sports bar in Sacramento called Tom's watch bar.

We'll figure it out.

But if you're on the discord, this is a good opportunity to join the discord that

ProPickleBaltalk discord and we'll make sure everybody knows where we're watching

the slam and we'll have to call ahead and throw some money to the sport.

No, I'm thinking you and me do like a live stream or something.

We watch it together.

We're interacting with people in the comments and stuff.

That could be fun.

I think we should do that.

All right.

I mean, something goes up in the place.

You can come to my shitty Lionsgate hotel over here.

We've got a TV over there.

I also found a cockroach this morning.

For every pro, there's a con.

But yeah, did you get another whole Airbnb to yourself over here in Sacramento?

No, I haven't yet to book.

So I got to figure that out.

For those of you who don't know, I might have mentioned this.

But last time when we were in Newport, I had a three bedroom Airbnb to myself.

And the reason this is, is because I own a couple of Airbnb's, which is one of the reasons

why I can do pickleball nonstop or whatever.

But there's this program called host share, not a sponsor of the pod yet.

But anybody that has an Airbnb can sign up.

And if you sign your space up, you basically volunteer up to 19 nights of your Airbnb to

other people for free.

And you get to stay on Airbnb's for 21 nights for free.

So it's a great deal if you are a short-term rental owner.

But that's probably what I'll end up doing is finding a place that is part of that system.

And then having like a four bedroom place to myself while Zayn stays at the lion.

I don't even honestly, wherever Zayn stays, it's surprised me every time.

So he's getting where, you know, we're from the high bar of Hampton Inn in Sweet.

Zayn was like, I want an omelette or something like that.

Now we're at the lion something.

Pretty soon we're going to be at Motel 6, where we keep the lights on for you.

There's no motels.

All right.

I'm at least a hotel guy or Airbnb guy.

No motels.

Come on.

Zayn, does any of you, what was the last time you stated a hotel with a door facing the outside?

Ooh, that's a good question.

I don't do that either.

That's been you.

That's been probably, that's been probably 10 years at least.

Yeah, it's, it's kind of weird.

It's just like, there's one hotel over by Disneyland and we're a big Disney family.

Or basically I'm a Disney dad.

I don't know.

But anyway, there's like a, a Marriott that has an outward facing doors.

But besides that, I like to your point, I haven't done it in 15, 15 years or so.

So as long as you don't do that, I think you're okay.

Yeah, that's, that's definitely a bar like a line I'm not willing to cross.

No, no, no.

All right.

So, Zayn, we'll get back to Sacramento.

But before we do, I wanted to talk, speaking of lines that we're not willing to cross.

I want to talk about the Yola patent lawsuit.

Yola suing 11 paddle companies because they crossed the line and copied patent infringement allegedly,

including your company's pro XR and paddle tech.

Want to get your, your, your quick thoughts?

I know, I know you were in Hanoi when this happened and I, we all had fun betting on how long it would

take you to come out with a video talking about it.

I think the overrunner was like five hours and you came in at six.

So you made us proud by spending at least six additional hours either sleeping or enjoying vacation.

But what are your thoughts saying?

It was, it was sleeping, which I also woke up to that and like a million text messages about the whole Yola thing.

And your post is funny.

Like how long is before Zayn makes a post about this?

So it was about three hours from the time of waking to the time of posting.

So I was pretty happy with, with that and my team for helping me get that one out.

But yeah, look, I haven't read the court files, right?

And so I haven't educated myself more on this yet.

I'm actually working with, with John from Speak Pickleball to, to actually go through the court files,

like really dive into to more of this.

But to me, the unknown here is, is this just corporate pressure on a competitor?

You know, companies sue each other all the time just to mess with each other and whatnot.

Like, or is it like fully legit?

And I don't, I haven't dove into the answer.

And obviously that's what the court system is going to, to do.

To me, it feels like this is most targeted at Franklin,

who might be the Yola's biggest competitor.

And I don't think it's a coincidence that this occurs during the Franklin US open,

right in the middle of when they're launching Annelise paddle.

Like this feels, this feels mostly targeted towards their probably biggest competitor

in Franklin and, you know, a bunch of other companies catching some strays as a result.

I don't know. I'm curious. What do you think?

Yeah. So I also have not read and nor will I read one word of this lawsuit.

But I will, you know, get some synopsis from other YouTubers or whatnot.

And my understanding is that it's like connected with the ITC and the goal is,

is more so around blocking the import of the paddles.

If they win this lawsuit versus any kind of monetary damages.

And so, and, and from what I understood is that this could take like 15 months to 18 months to resolve.

And so I guess my, my thoughts are by the time this is resolved,

are all these paddles going to have already been sold?

We're going to be on Gen 5.5 and this will be a non-issue.

I'm starting to think that it's less of a big deal than people made it out to be initially.

What was interesting when it was funny was to see some of the paddle companies

immediately throw up a sale of their Gen 3 paddles.

I think I saw proton through $100 of all of their paddles.

Protons on there. Protons.

Protons either that or they're going out of business sale.

So.

Yeah, they have, they have the sign on their website that just says like 60 more days,

60% off. It's an orange and red and yellow.

But proton, volare, a couple other companies were, I think, discounting them.

So I think in the end, like the speed that this goes,

the companies that may be in question, if they feel like their writing is on the wall,

will be able to pivot, get their paddles out.

Like, for example, RPM, you know, everybody talks about how the friction pro is basically a one-to-one,

Yola clone, right?

And by the time this gets resolved, the Q2, which is a phone paddle,

will probably be their biggest seller and by far most popular product.

And if the friction pro goes away, I don't think anybody's complaining.

So I just don't think it's going to be a big issue for these companies more than it is a scare tactic.

And possibly like a, hey, if you do this in the future,

we will have words like, you know, it's, I think it's just sends a message first is having a lasting effect.

Agreed. That's why I think it's more about like tying them up in legal work as kind of like a corporate business strategy

than it is necessarily about the actual lawsuit itself.

Like, and don't get me wrong, like IP absolutely needs to be protected.

Like, I think that's obviously important.

And I don't know the details.

I don't know the nitty gritty details of whether this is our rip-offs or not.

I just can't imagine that, you know, 11 of the biggest pickleball brands wouldn't at least, you know,

check their bases in terms of making sure that they're not copying patented products.

I'd be surprised if all 11 of them were like negligent in that regard.

Like, I don't buy that.

So that's what kind of leads me to the idea of like, alright,

this is kind of more just a corporate litigation strategy than anything else.

And like you said, I think that there's these paddles will probably be irrelevant by that time.

But by the time we have this conversation next week, again, I'll be more educated on the topic.

But that's the initial take here.

Yeah. And unlike Nico, I could not be educated on.

I could not ask for Zane to be educated on the podcast where we talk about this.

But next week he will know more.

I've had a lot going on, Nico, alright?

Dude, I got back from we were we had a little bit of vacation.

I actually took literally my first day of the entire year off the day before the

Yola news came out.

I didn't touch my phone at all that day.

And the next day I was back to work with the Yola thing.

So I had a couple days for vacation flew all the way across the earth.

So you know what?

I don't want to hear it Nico.

I'm proud we're proud of you Zane for taking a day off.

Yeah. So next week we'll have more information on this lawsuit.

I guess my biggest question though, Zane, for you.

And I think about when it comes to this lawsuit is, is this a net positive thing for

Yola?

So I understand that Yola puts pressure, can put pressure on their competition, protect

IP.

But I feel like the general sentiment behind this lawsuit is negative towards Yola from

almost the entire pickleball community.

So like I posted a I posted a video about this and immediately somebody said, when are

we going to realize that Yola is evil or Yola are the bad guys, right?

And it had like, you know, a hundred likes, probably more likes than the actual video itself.

And I think that's was the sentiment on almost everybody's thing was like, oh yeah, can

they pat and core crushing?

Oh yeah, you know, basically everything was a dig at Yola.

And so I think they already are kind of seen as like the evil empire of pickleball when

it comes to the paddle brands.

Like, is this, is this helping them at all?

Or did they make a mistake by even doing this?

Not in the court of public opinion.

I think from a business, if you look at the numbers, you've got a couple of competitors

that are already pulling some of their stuff off the shelves to not deal with this or

it might delay or whatever.

So like, if you look at it from that perspective, it's probably already been a win for them.

Just the threat of that is I think good for them on a business side.

But like I think the public, the public outcry, or the public back lashes is certainly not

good.

But then again, you know, by the time this comes out on Tuesday, April 14th, everybody's

probably already forgotten about this.

You know, the news cycle is so fast and pickleball, you know, how many people remember or care

about their $200 million ongoing lawsuit with USA pickleball?

Like that's still going on guys.

Nobody cares.

So until something comes out about that, of course, I think people will be pissed.

You know, I've got plenty of comments on my video of like, I'm never buying a Yolopaddle

again.

Like, all right, well, this person clearly had an axe to grind with Yola previously

and already wasn't going to buy a Yola paddle.

So like, they're not losing that person.

I don't know.

Why do you think people think that Yola is the evil empire of pickleball?

Because like, I've never really had too much of an issue with them like before this.

Like I've generally kind of agreed with most of the stuff that Yola has done before this.

I've never seen them as the evil empire of pickleball paddles.

Yeah, I think it's a combination of how much money they have.

So it's just easy to lump them in with, you know, it's kind of like in big tech when

you see, you know, whether it be Microsoft or Apple or whoever it is, Google, like kind

of you can vilify these companies that just have the ability to do whatever they want

versus their competitors.

I think also just the experience of the Gen 3 and the, oh, our paddle is legal.

It's not legal.

We sent the wrong paddle in.

Are we just liars?

What did we do there?

I think a lot of people have a bad taste in their mouth from the original Gen 3 paddles.

And then when they released the mod, which was basically the same thing and they got away

with it, people hated the mod, even though it was a fantastic paddle to play with.

So I think just that general experience.

And then the fact that because they're so popular, they also get attributed with core

crushing more than anybody else, whether or not the Yola core crush is more than an

RPM or whatever other Gen 3 paddle.

For some reason, people always just associate core crushing with Yola.

So I think that's an issue.

The last thing I'll mention is that if Yola had created a paddle that everybody wanted

with the Gen with a pro five, maybe you don't have this backlash because people are more

willing to support it.

But because I think the overall sentiment of their latest paddle is also, you guys did

the same thing.

But we're done.

We don't like you.

Everybody's also willing to jump ship from Yola right away.

So it was like the perfect wrong timing for looking good.

Yeah.

And I think that this is going to influence the inevitable consolidation in pickleball

as well because there are going to be some companies that just like back off and don't

want to fight something like this.

It's how much are you going to be able to, are you going to be able to defend yourself

in legal battles?

Whether you're right or whether you're wrong, like doesn't really matter.

You could be completely in the right and not have the legal budget to fight against Yola

and give up.

For somebody, I feel like the Friday guys, especially, right?

They could be wrong.

They could be right.

But regardless, I don't know how they're going to fight this legal battle.

Fortunately, they have a bunch of other companies that can basically help in this suit.

So I think this is going to be the start of some more inevitable consolidation as well.

Yeah.

I was surprised at it and just trying to sue all of the smallest companies and just pick

them off, just kill them immediately.

Instead of suing Franklin, they just like literally sue every single small, you know,

we're going to try and find one from 11, 624 and all these other companies that are more

indie and just crush them.

I like that.

At least they're punching at their own weight with some of this stuff.

That's good.

At least they're not just picking on the little guys.

Who was it?

There was a suit a couple of years ago where some random tiny companies were named, right?

Was that the...

Was that not carbon and vatic?

I know they just settled their lawsuit to fuck, I don't know.

Doesn't matter.

None of my business.

Palmers.

Go listen to whatever.

The pickle studio.

There's plenty of this.

All the panel nerds have talked about this at Nazism.

So you feel free to listen to their pod or check back in next week after Zane does

research.

How was the lefty reset challenge going?

How is that going with Merrick Health and whatnot as well?

Yeah, it's been going great.

Other than the fact that I can probably go five days in a row without having a catastrophic

cheat meal.

So I'm still trying to figure that one out.

I found like five days is probably my limit.

And then I have a cheat meal that's like the rock.

I don't know if you've ever seen the rock when you had his cheat meals.

I've heard.

I've heard.

12 pancakes and like three pizzas.

You know, candy bars on a tub of ice cream.

So when I go off, I go off hard.

But the nice thing is I have a support system to pick me up when I'm down, scrape off the

pieces off the floor.

And that's my guy Peter at Merrick Health.

He doesn't realize that you know, Merrick Health is a support system with supplements and

guided medical advice.

You know, a health coach and like doctors or physicians, you know, medical professionals

to provide information for you.

But also he's like my part-time therapist.

So I get to work.

I need a food therapist.

I need a food therapist.

I don't know if Peter knows that he is a food therapist.

But anyway, he's always there for me, always supporting me, giving me words of encouragement

and letting me know different things that I can do and try, whether it be supplementation,

exercise, health, just general guidance.

And so while everybody in my whole general universe is supportive and that's been the

great thing, the community of the lefty reset has been fantastic.

I've had experts as a community in my back pocket to make me feel successful.

So I'm actually down like 4.9 pounds since we started the challenge.

And so we're kind of on pace for that like 30 pounds.

We're going to see Peter's going to pull me through.

But if you guys are interested in the same experience that I've had, having your own personal

Peter, this is not actually a therapist, but you know, treat him however you would like

within reason.

Go ahead over to marikell.com and you used to code the DINC to get 10% off your assessment.

Check it out today.

So it was amazing.

Moving on, there was, I think it just ended yesterday, the collegiate national pickleball

competition.

64 schools, March, Madness, Style, Bracket for National Championship.

I did some research and I don't even think there was a quarter, there wasn't even a quarter

finals like four years ago.

And there might have just been like you sign up and you get to go play.

So this, I was surprised one that 64 schools have pickleball teams.

The FAU team ended up beating Utah Tech in the championships.

One, first off, Zane, did you know this was happening?

And two, are we going to get collegiate pickleball anytime soon in like an NCAA recognition?

Yeah.

So what confuses me is I feel like there's a college national championships like every

three months.

Am I wrong?

Like I feel like there's always a college national championship going on.

So I don't know what the difference is between all the different ones.

I do know that there's several, several different ones, whatever.

I think the FAU, Utah Tech, little rivalry that they have is kind of cool and interesting.

It seems like those two are consistently the best, the best two collegiate teams.

I think it's an inevitably a collegiate sport.

The question is, you know, when do you think this gets NCAA recognition?

Do you think that happens before or after Olympics?

Ooh, I think it gets, I think it happens before the Olympics.

I think there's so many more people that play pickleball in the US that it's easier to

make it NCAA approved versus trying to get all the other countries to have a pickleball

pipeline that can support pickleball in the Olympics.

What about you?

What do you think?

No, I mean, like theoretically it should be, right?

But I don't know why it's not already an NCAA sport, right?

I don't know how that works.

I'm surprised it's not already because it doesn't throw off, it's cheap to do.

It doesn't throw off any requirements for title nine stuff because you have the exact

same amount of guys and girls.

I'm kind of surprised that it's not, especially when you can fill up 64 schools for something

like this already.

I don't know how to get NCAA approved for something like this, but it's got to be on the radar.

Yeah, I wonder what the funding is, like in terms of the benefit to the school for having

a pickleball program that they have to fund.

Monetary, like is this like a cost center or is they actually producing revenue by having

a team?

Oh, no.

It couldn't be producing revenue.

So yeah, I mean, you are probably looking at being out, you know, some amount of money

from a program like this, but you could also punt it to the players to fund some of that

stuff, too, right?

They're already funding it.

They're already doing this.

So yeah, I mean, that's probably the biggest barrier is funding this.

I don't know how that works either.

Are the, so speaking of title nine, I was just thinking about this.

Are there any other collegiate sports that have men and women on the same team?

I think track.

I think there is some co-ed track events.

Right.

Okay.

Maybe swimming.

I don't know.

No, I don't think so.

Like I thought about it because there's, you know, tennis has men's tennis and women's

tennis.

All the sports are separated.

And I just was wondering, is this exists anywhere else?

So just do the chat.

Chat GBT is your friend.

Well, let's, let's chat GBT it right here.

Are there any co-ed collegiate NCAA sports?

Yes.

I voiced a text.

We already talked about that with Anna Bright.

Fencing?

Okay.

You bet you didn't know fencing was co-ed.

Fencing.

I didn't know it was a collegiate sport.

Let her long co-ed.

So skiing.

Okay.

Men and women compete separately, but team results are combined.

Same with fencing.

Rifle is fully integrated.

Men and women compete directly against each other.

Apparently, rifle is also a collegiate sport.

The top program.

All right.

I'll give you one guess of what the top rifle program is.

And you should be pretty close for this one.

The University of Nevada, Reno.

No.

West Virginia.

Air Force.

Air Force is another good guess.

West Virginia.

Okay.

I could see it.

That's for just...

Wow.

Okay.

So some schools have club-level co-ed teams, but not NCAA varsity co-ed championships.

NCAA keeps most sports split for title nine balances and competitive equity.

Only three are truly co-ed.

Fencing, skiing, and rifle.

Huh.

Okay.

I mean, this is an opportunity to do something pretty cool then.

Yeah.

And I always wonder what the pipeline needs to look like.

Does it need to go to high school first before it goes to college?

I'm not sure what that looks like, but I think there's opportunities to have more of that

pipeline.

And then it gets messy because all these kids that are between the ages of 14 and 18 that

are good at pickleball are not playing college pickleball.

They are playing pro pickleball.

Right.

So you'd have to somehow have a better pipeline for someone like Thomas to stay in high school

and then go to college versus immediately just going to pro.

So I don't know.

I don't know what we'll see, but congratulations to FAU and also congratulations to Dupur.

I just looked this up.

FAU out of the 64 teams had the highest combined duper.

You taught tech at the second highest combined duper.

So for those of you who love to say, Dupur is super inaccurate.

Surprise.

But out of the 64 teams in the bracket, the two teams of the highest duper's ended up in

the finals and the team with the highest super one.

So score one for our friends at Dupur.

Love it.

Did you know that there is currently a race for the PPA finals?

I have heard that all I've heard is that Ben Johns is out of the race for singles or what?

I think for singles.

Yes.

Yeah.

I feel like, so this is, I was just starting to write my Sacramento recap video already

and like, you know, I start with some of this and I've been talking about the, the, um,

the race to the finals.

I'm like, that's a pretty cool idea to actually have the rankings sort of like mean something.

But I feel like it's just not super clear.

And we've had like a finals event, what like two or three years in a row.

And I just never, I feel like it feels like it's sort of flopped in comparison and, you

know, it doesn't even matter quite as much as a regular PPA event.

It almost seems like.

So I don't know.

What does your take on a race to the PPA finals?

And why do you think it sort of flopped so far?

Yeah.

I, I don't think they advertise it enough.

It's not something that happens throughout the year.

It's something where maybe the last like three tournaments, they bring it up.

And then people go, oh, yeah, there's this tournament that happens in sign Clemente,

where only eight pros are going to be there versus a hundred.

So I think sometimes it's just the sheer volume of people kind of turns initial fans off

and the tournament is shorter.

I like the idea.

And I'm not sure if they've actually nailed the format yet.

I remember two years ago, it might have been two years ago, where they had, you know,

the top eight men and the top eight women for mixed got selected.

And then they just went by ranking and the person with the highest ranking got to pick

their partner.

And I remember Riley Newman picking Vivian David and not letting Thomas Williams

in play with her, right?

Which is like the ultimate Riley move.

I did like that.

I thought that was very entertaining.

Yeah.

And I feel like she didn't really enjoy it.

And then, but I did not do well.

But I do like that kind of wrinkle.

But yeah, I'm not sure.

I just think they need the probably need to have more promotion or marketing around it,

because I couldn't tell you the top eight men's doubles players or, you know, teams

at all.

So, yeah.

So, I mean, there are some qualifying spots that are still up for grabs, but it's honestly

pretty solidified with all the different, with all the top teams that you, that you would

think of.

I don't know.

So, I think they just need to make that worth more points or hype it up more throughout

the rest of the year or have some sort of deal for the champion.

And then again, you know, the ATP finals, it's like, it just is kind of another tournament,

it seems like.

So, I mean, ATP finals?

That's the hard thing.

It's like, I don't know what's more valuable or more important like Monte Carlo or something,

like a master's 1000 tournament versus the tour finals.

I think it's the same amount of points.

Yeah.

So, I don't think like Federer and tennis was ever like, I have to win the year end tour

finals, right?

I think it may be an adult one at once.

But, so, I'm not sure if it needs to be more money, more points or what to get people

excited to do it.

And then I think that there just needs to be like high production value, maybe make it

all at night time, put it indoors and have it on prime time hours, play at six o'clock

and then have a light show like you did in Hanoi.

And we might have made for TV experience.

Yeah.

No, I mean, like, just at the end of the day, like, I like this idea.

It just feels like there's something missing here.

And I can't articulate exactly what it is.

So, yeah, anyway, there are some points up for grabs in that for Sacramento.

So, I have a question about the tour finals thing.

I just want to throw this idea out.

What do you think?

Instead of having a tour finals where you play with your existing partner, you do a

round robin and the APP did this a couple years ago with other partners.

And then the person with the highest cumulative points makes it and advances.

And we find out who the best player is, not the best team.

Is Ben John's going to win that or is Hayden going to win that?

And can you finally get some vindication for your Hayden takes?

No, I like that a lot.

I mean, I think that would be a great wrinkle that I think people would want to see.

Because then you actually split these people up and you have like it sort of an overall,

you know, composite score, I suppose, right?

Like, who is the overall best player?

I like that a lot.

I got no notes.

It's actually a good idea for ones from Unico.

Thank you.

Is it no, Brandon?

Somebody actually sent it to me in my DM.

So I can't take full credit for it.

But I do remember seeing it in APP.

Yeah.

It's not APP do it.

And I think it ended up with like three of the four players were left handed, which

made it a little more.

Yeah, that's where you had like two lefties playing together, right?

I kind of remember that.

Yeah.

Like Ryler and I forget who else was there.

That's all I remember.

But yeah, so I think I think we can make that happen.

And even if it was at the tour finals where there's like a, not a throwaway

event, but you have that event almost like an exhibition, but still worth either points

or money so that people try.

I think people would love to see Ben play with JW or CJ Klinger and like to see Annelie

play with Eric Oncens.

So let's make it happen.

P.P.

Great listen.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Robin with different partners.

I love that.

Yeah.

So speaking of different partners, and do you want to talk about PPA Sacramento?

We have a new partner.

We have no Annelie waters.

We have, as we mentioned, my favorite PPA tournament of the year because it is an hour and a half

away from my house.

Unfortunately right now it's snowed like two feet over the pass right next to Sacramento.

So I was almost trapped.

So it's a nice weather and sack, but an hour away it's just crazy blizzarding.

Anyway, that's crazy at the tournament.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Tahoe is insane.

There's no Annelie waters.

I think Ben is skipping mixed.

Hayden is not there.

Anna Bright not playing.

So we have different partnerships like who do we have?

We have Eric Oncens and Tyra Black, Noley Cliff and Megan Dison.

We have Katherine Perento, Max Freeman, CJ Klinger and Cure, Kutomodo.

First question for you, Zane, is there any partnership that you see that's new that

you're like excited for or think and do well?

Yeah.

The most interesting thing is Katherine's new partners or maybe more accurately Rachel

and Gabe's new partners.

So Gabe is playing mixed with Tyra, right?

Gabe is playing this with Rachel.

Gabe is, that's right, Gabe with Rachel and then Rachel is playing women's with Paris

talk.

Oh my God.

Paris, right?

So I knew, I knew, so it was basically Katherine's normal partners and switched it up with

with other people.

And so I, you know, I was curious if that was going to happen at some point or another

and it does seem like maybe that's happening now.

But I like the, I also like the Tyra and Eric pairing as well.

It's probably the one that I'm most excited for as well as Rachel and Gabe.

So Rachel?

Rachel?

Rachel is a super underrated mixed player.

I still think that she's a top five mixed female probably after Analy and Abraide, Georgia,

Tyra, maybe.

Yeah, I think Rachel is right up there.

I think so too.

We're not you.

Who do you think you can wait for?

I mean, I'm always excited for CJ Klinger.

So CJ Klinger and Qorea, I want to see what that does.

You know, rooting for the fellow lefty.

I feel like CJ has not had a lot of results and I find that left handed mixed men's players

just, they never do well.

Like it's hard to find the right.

I'm not sure Zane.

Maybe, maybe I can ask you because I'll give you an example.

So I was actually playing mixed warmups with somebody who doesn't normally play the left

in women's and we played mixed.

And I think our teams are relatively even.

But because we're lefty, righty mixed team, we got smoke.

Like 10 times in a row.

Maybe it's just because I'm not as good as I think I am, which is definitely valid.

But what is it about left handed men that make it so hard to be successful and mixed?

Well, I mean, at the pro level, it's just a small sample.

But like, I do think that the, look, there's no elite lefty in the game currently, right?

CJ is the best lefty in pickleball.

Oghiga is a little bit after that.

But CJ is a top 10 player.

He's not a top five player, right?

I'd put him in the six through 10 sort of of range.

So I don't think it's that lefties are flawed necessarily.

I think there's a couple things.

We've never had a lefty that's been the best player in the world, right?

And you're also bottlenecked by a lady that wants to play left and mixed.

And that's probably the harder part.

But look at results that like CJ and Mari have had or Oghiga and Tyra have had.

I think that actually a lefty and mixed is very, very advantageous.

I actually think it's an advantage, but you have to have that partner fit, which is difficult

to do.

So the right fit, I think a lefty is a big advantage because you neutralize the other

guy in front of you.

And you know, righty guys, most righty, righty teams have one form of offense, which is

like funneling the ball.

You know, you get so grooved in to attacking the lady in front of the guy at a normal team

that like you have to totally reinvent all of your strategies going the opposite direction.

So I think there's a big advantage to being a lefty and mixed if you can find the right

righty left side female partner.

All right.

That's fair.

So basically what I heard from the story is, Nico, you're actually not as good as Mixed

as as you thought.

This is a silly, you know, I mean, for me, it's just, I think I just got a mental block

and mix.

Maybe I'm not sure, but I mean, I feel like because in Mixed doubles, you got to move

your feet.

Like you got to go take some court, bro.

That's fair.

That's fair.

I'll try and do it here.

I'm going to play in Mixed again at Sacramento.

So check me out on Sunday.

But yeah, I'm excited for Klinger and Kuhnimoto.

I think that there's going to be some upsets in Mixed in this tournament.

I think that JW and Georgia have kind of hit bottom and is going to continue.

I don't think that they're going to win even without Annelie, Anna Bright or Ben playing

Mixed.

This is the Nico first.

I bet you they win this tournament.

They're going to make the finals.

They'll make the finals.

But I think it's either going to be Eric and Tyra or Gabe and Rachel taking it all.

Yeah.

Well, I like to see that.

I mean, like my favorite tournaments are the ones where who are Ben and Annelie don't

play because the field opens up a little bit.

So me too, me too.

And I will say before we move on from the Mixed pairings, I got a feel for for Katherine

Parento, who has been the most dumped pro in the history of Pickleball.

Like, you know, had a partner after partner, unfortunately, leaving Katherine.

She's fantastic.

But we'll see what she does with Max Freeman speaking of another lefty.

See how they do.

But that's that's rough.

Hopefully she finds her forever partner.

Shout out Katherine.

There we go.

Speaking of rough, rough goings, I think the PPA hates Ben Johns.

All right.

I'm going to lay out the case for this.

Ben Johns has played a total of one tournament.

And maybe I'll say the PPA loves me.

I don't know.

But he has played one single tournament.

He played Mesa, made to the finals, almost one.

Congratulations.

Ben Johns fantastic.

Right?

He goes to another tournament.

He drops out.

He's finally playing singles again.

Why he's playing singles in Sacramento specifically?

I have no idea.

I know.

But listen to Ben's draw.

All right.

Ben, in the round of 32, potentially plays J. W. Johnson.

Then, if he wins, round of 16 against Jack Sock, then quarters against Chris Hayworth,

semis against Hunter Johnson, finals against Federico Staxcher.

Like, that is the hardest road to winning a championship in the history of singles.

For sure, there's not no doubt.

And they probably put the three players most well suited to beat Ben in Jack Sock, Chris

Hayworth, and Hunter Johnson all in the same half of his draw.

Whereas Federico, who, you know, Ben is Fed's daddy.

And you got Connor Garnett, and basically everybody that plays Cat and Mouse over on

the other side.

So, tough look for Ben.

How far does he make it?

Who's his first round?

First round, J. W. Johnson.

J. W.

I think he beats J. W. I think he loses in his second round.

Jack Sock.

Yeah.

I think, but I can see that either way.

But he's playing because you have to play two events to get your appearance fee, right?

And so without Annelie, he's not playing mixed doubles.

So you got to play two events to get an appearance fee.

That's why he's playing.

And that's why we won't see him pull out of this one.

That's fair.

He won't pull out, but he may not make it very far, which I don't think he would.

He would be too disappointed with.

I mean, he's, I think the 13th seed overall in points and pick, they're in singles.

And he is mathematically eliminated from the race to the finals.

So there's not a lot that he's playing for other than the tournament and the thousand

singles points.

So we'll see how Ben does always draws the crowd.

This time I'm rooting for him, even though I need him to lose at some point.

I'll root for him in pretty much every match because that is a murderer's row of singles

competition.

Yeah.

That's a brutal draw there.

Probably some other draws that, you know, just didn't get the attention, you know,

maybe getting like a John Lucian Goins ranked 30 second or, you know, hay worth when he

was 57.

There's something like that.

I don't know, but yeah, that's a brutal, brutal draw.

Yeah.

So who do you have winning singles?

You think Chris Hayworth keeps it rolling?

We got Hunter fed.

Is it somebody else besides those three?

Hunter fed or Chris?

They're the only ones that are going to win one of these.

But you have a hot singles take, don't you?

I do.

I do.

This is the take that tennis players hate more than anything.

So here's my hot take.

All right.

And that is that pickleball singles minute for minute is more tiring, more athletic,

whatever, than tennis, than single tennis.

All right.

So let me, let me, let me lay out the case for you.

I'm not saying that a singles pickleball matches more, is more exhausting than a tennis

match because I understand tennis matches can go two hours, three hours, five hours.

All right.

I'm saying minute per minute, which is one of the reasons why championship Sunday singles

is not best three out of five anymore.

It's too hard.

All right.

So the points are like break neck pace, sprinting, changing directions left and right and

left and right.

And there's never any cross-core like slice rallies or forehand rallies.

It is just left, right, up, down, back for like a solid 20 seconds and then it's done.

Then once that point is done, they have, I don't know, 10 seconds, maybe 15 seconds, is

like half the time that they have between tennis points to actually start the point over

again.

Now in tennis, after you serve, you get a second serve if you miss it.

You take another 10 seconds between first serve and second serve.

You grab the ball, you look at one, you give it back to the ball person.

So the time between points and tennis is like, it's like a football game where it's like,

it seems like 50% of the match in tennis is just the time between points and in pickleball,

it's go, go, go for 20 straight rallies.

So I don't think, I think that if you played five hours like a Grand Slam, you know, tennis

final of pickleball, you would have two people that are literally dead at the end.

They would pass away, it'd be too hard.

Well, welcome to the party, Nico.

I've been saying that since like 2021, dude.

Having played both tennis and pickleball, I was arguing that.

However, I would say that that's actually changed a little bit.

Now that you have more of these ground stroke rallies, it used to be where everything

was legit, a sprint, basically, to every single shot because you would come into the net immediately

off of the return, you'd be sprinting into the net, you'd be lunging back and forth for

every single one of these shots.

I do think that there's now a little bit of like some element of like grinding cross-court

or you know, a few shots in a row where you're taking one or two steps to try and gain an

advantage in the point.

I do think that the stop start is a little bit more aggressive in pickleball, a little

bit more difficult on your joints.

So I agreed with you more, actually a couple of years ago, but now that it looks a little

bit more like tennis, I think it's less so.

So I'm going to come down on the argument that tennis is still a little bit more difficult,

even though I was on your side like five years ago until like two years ago, until the

lifetime ball, basically.

Until the last time ball.

I don't know.

I can see, honestly, both ways, but I just think people don't understand how much time

there is between tennis points.

And then this is obviously at the pro level.

And I'm going to double down at the amateur level.

And one thing that I have to say specifically about tennis people is, and I love tennis,

I've played tennis in high school, I was a good tennis player, but your average Joe

Shmo tennis player at the courts in town are not that good at tennis.

And it doesn't look any more athletic or hard or skillful than watching your Joe Shmo

pickleball player.

So people are always like, oh, pickleball is for people that can't play tennis.

And tennis is so much more difficult.

I'm like, yeah, I understand that it's more difficult to do what Carlos Alcoraz is doing,

but I watch, you know, Sally and Steve at, you know, the Reno tennis center trying to hit

tennis balls back and they're just moonballing balls back and forth, missing 80% of their

serves.

And it doesn't look any more either athletic or hard.

Yeah.

Honestly, probably less so, right?

Like, if you compare as 70 year old playing pickleball to a 70 year old playing tennis,

70 year old playing pickleball looks way better.

Like you can actually have pretty decent hands, like all that stuff.

Like you just don't really move that well.

So like, I don't know, a 70 year old playing pickleball looks more athletic than a 70 year

old playing tennis.

Agreed.

All right.

So we heard of here first on the pickle pod, pickleball, more athletic, more difficult,

more fun to watch than tennis.

So that is a fact from Zane from Nico.

Perfect.

Perfect.

All right.

All right.

So Zane, we got a couple more things here.

Why don't we go ahead?

We missed it last week, but let's do, guess my duper.

It's one of my favorite segments.

I guess my duper last time I was within like a point one of the guy's duper, Bryce Larson,

which then they got like five people message me saying that you actually played him in

a professional match with Travis Rettenmeyer.

So I play this guy.

Not sure if you remember, but I don't.

He was not a 475.

I wonder if you played this guy.

We'll see.

So all right.

We got some more from speaking of collegiate pickleball.

We have another collegiate championship from 2025 here.

Looks like Utah Tech against Utah.

Let's do it.

Okay.

Dacent little put away.

Oh.

Oh, partners coming over to take that.

He wants no part of a backhand drop.

All right.

I'm always looking at which one I'm looking at.

All right.

White hat.

Oh, nice.

I'll reset there.

Oh, tricky.

I was like that inside out down the line, volley.

Was that a drop shot?

He set up for a drop shot.

That's a drop shot.

He's just been wanting to drop the whole point.

I can tell.

He had his set up and his line.

I'm dropping this point.

Wow.

Okay.

He's just toying with these guys.

Yeah.

I'm going.

I'm going to go 5.36.

5.36.

5.36 for this guy.

All right.

So here's my cell because I'm playing the game and I'm playing to win.

I saw Utah Tech.

We knew that they were like the number two rated duper team in collegiate pickleball

this year.

So they got to be pretty good, right?

So I'm going to say 5.6.31.

Okay.

All right.

Release the files.

There it is.

What's hanging it?

I don't know.

What did I say?

I said 5.36.

I think you said 5.3.

Damn.

5.6.

5.3 for Zane.

All right.

We'll keep a season long tally.

So we're at a two to one.

Zane's beating me right now on, guess my duper.

We'll have a season long total.

I'm coming back next week.

But that's impressive.

We need to get some stats.

We can have overall head to head wins, but then how far off you are, too.

So I'm proud of that one.

That's a good one.

Benson, you're the man.

Thank you for molding your duper to exactly what I was going to say.

That was solid.

Good work.

Wow.

Now, that was impressive.

I like that.

Let's do it.

You also came up with another fun game that I'm pretty excited about for today that involves.

I'll let you explain it.

Our pound for pound, top 10.

Yes.

Okay.

All right.

So this is what we're going to do.

So I was watching boxing the other day on Netflix, Tyson Fury match.

And I realized boxing has this cool thing that's pound for pound rankings, right?

So you obviously have the best boxer in each weight division, but you're never going

to have Tyson Fury box against Floyd Mayweather.

So we can, you know, obviously Tyson Fury would demolish him, but there are pound for pound

ranking.

So basically, who's the best just based on their general, you know, their way class and

whatnot?

And so I think I want to do that for pickleball here.

It's almost like an MLP draft.

But what I'm thinking about is we're going to combine singles, doubles, mixed, you know,

gender to talk about who our pound for pound, top 10 best players are overall.

So both Zane and I are going to go, we're going to start with 10.

We're going to go down to one and rank who we think are the best players in pickleball

and try and defend our takes as much as we can.

Okay.

You first.

So I'll start.

All right.

And so this might actually be the hottest take that I have on the top 10, but coming in

in number 10 on my pound for pound rankings is Chris Hayward.

All right.

Now what the fuck?

Here's the thing.

You're probably thinking exactly.

You're probably thinking this dude is like, you know, maybe about the same skill level

as Nico when it comes to doubles.

And I've never seen him, you know, pass the first round.

But and he's losing to Tom or whoever, but he's so good at singles.

I had to put him on the list.

Like he was, he, to me, his singles greatness, like transcends his doubles weakness.

So I put him at the bottom of the list.

I needed out of Chris Hayward.

That's crazy.

He's like a tall guy dude, too.

Like I'm not arguing that he's not good at pickleball or singles, but he's like, he's

definitely a single specialist at this point getting better at doubles.

And he's also like, what?

Six, three.

Like, I'm not, dude, when we're talking about pound for pound, I'm not actually saying,

I'm not actually counting in their weight.

I'm just basically saying, we're talking about, what does pound for pound mean if you're

not talking about their weight?

Bro, I thought I mentioned that they're not their weight.

They're not the worst playable player.

No, so basically, what we're trying to do here, maybe Zane has to redo his list.

Zane literally has a list of skinny as big of all players that are good at pickleball.

I do.

I'm right here.

I'm just trying to play with the outender.

Cross vision.

I'm comparing across divisions.

Oh my gosh.

This is what we get for Zane being in Hanoi and taking a day off.

No more days off.

You want to hear my pound for pound list?

Like literally pound for pound list?

I had Hayden.

I had Gabe.

These scrawny, I had Tama, Wilma Kennen, Annelie, Paris, the Kawamoto's, and LC Handershot.

That's why I had pound for pound.

Oh my gosh.

I could have been more specifically.

I thought we were literally doing like duper divided by pounds.

Like ratio of duper to pounds.

We're basically doing overall player, combining divisions, who the actual best 10 players are

pickleball are.

Can you understand where I might have been confused when you say pound for pound?

What does that even mean then?

Oh my gosh.

Oh my gosh.

I like my thing.

I suppose you don't know Zane and I have a meeting every Friday morning where we talk about

stuff on the pod.

We haven't had it in the last two weeks because it's been Vietnam and on vacation and anniversary

or birthdays and whatnot.

We need to have these meetings going forward so that I can more appropriately explain what

I mean.

I wonder if Zane can put this together on the fly.

I don't know or we could always say that we put it together on the fly.

Why don't you put together your duper divided by weight list together on the fly.

All right.

So you've got, I know that I'm not in the top 10.

You've got, hey, I got a worth.

All right.

Well, I mean, then give me Hunter because he's better at both men's doubles and mixed

doubles and almost as good at singles.

That's a fair choice.

That's a good one.

Hunter, I like it.

Okay.

Here's where I go.

Number nine, Georgia Johnson.

So this is the, let me say that we're saying this is the ninth best pickable player in the

world.

She did go for almost a million dollars, too expensive for the Dallas Flash, but I think

Georgia is the ninth best pickable player in the world.

Okay.

Doesn't play singles.

But killer and mixed and good in women's, but I feel like slightly overrated in women's.

All right.

This is probably too, too low, but I would get, I guess give me, give me Gabe Tardia.

Obviously like, number one men's doubles player with Ben, very good mixed doubles player,

pretty good singles player.

I mean, he won a championship last year.

I believe in Australia and singles.

So maybe I'm wrong on that.

He did.

I think he beat the Roscoe or somebody.

I forget who he beat in the finals.

But I do remember him winning one singles tournament, which was surprising to me.

I feel like he's a guy that can win any singles match or lose any singles match, but yeah.

And you know, Anna Bright described to him as the go to fickle ball at one point.

So Gabe and number nine for Zane.

Oh, we're picking eight from people.

I thought we were building our own list.

That's what we are.

Damn.

No, we are building our own list.

I'm Georgia and I'm building our game.

I'm going to be binding a list.

I see, I was picking people differently from here.

We're going to be missing a little here.

So you have Hunter and you have Gabe.

I have Chris and Georgia, but you can keep the same player.

So the next person that I have, number 10 best player overall, I have Tyra.

So I think Tyra is equally as good if not just slightly worse than Georgia when it comes

to mixed.

I think she is definitely better in women's.

And I think she's a better singles player.

Obviously, be anally water.

So I put Tyra and number eight just ahead of Georgia.

Okay.

So yeah, I thought I couldn't pick the same people you picked.

So you can pick the same people.

You can pick the same people.

All right.

Well, then I'll go with Georgia in this next spot, even though I probably would have put

her down it.

Oh, me.

I probably would have put her previously.

Okay.

So you would have had Georgia, you would have had Gabe ahead of Georgia, but all right, for

this, the fact that you don't know the rules and I don't know how to explain them.

All right.

All right.

So number seven, I put Gabe.

I thought to your point, he's good and it's weird putting the best men's doubles player

possibly or number one ranked at number seven, but Gabe, you're at number seven for me.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, then I think I will go Tyra.

Okay.

Now I'm just going to hold the game.

Right.

We've got to basically have Gabe already picked.

The same list is my goodness.

You know, this is like when I was in East, when I used to hunt for Easter eggs, my dad

used to get super upset with me because I, you know, I would be like, I was like three

years old and my cousin was also three years old and we were like always competitive.

And he would always go towards the eggs and I would just follow him the entire way.

And my dad would just be like, why do you doing like, why don't you just go find your

own eggs?

Why are you just following your cousin?

And anyway, this is your list here.

You basically just following my footsteps here.

Number six, I got all Sean.

So good at singles.

I think, you know, Gabe, I think Gabe is better than him at men's doubles and they're probably

equal at mix, but because I'll Sean plays a better singles match, I think he's the number

four singles player.

In my opinion, I put all Sean at six.

I would put him much higher because I feel like he's the only person who has

any sort of realistic triple crown threats at this point other than Ben.

So I would go with, I would go with the Hayden because obviously I'm very high on Hayden's

game in mixed and in men's, but he's, you know, he doesn't play singles really.

He's a decent singles player, but he doesn't play singles.

Who's better singles?

Hayden or Gabe?

Gabe, I think, I think Gabe is playing one for them on the shock now.

Gabe's playing one for them.

Who's better at mixed?

Hayden.

Hayden, is it significantly better or are they a tosser?

It's hard to say because Gabe's been playing with Jesse for the most part who is, you know,

and Hayden's been playing with Anna Bright.

Anna Bright's obviously a better mixed player than Jesse.

So it'll be interesting to see now Gabe with Rachel and see how that works.

So.

Yeah.

All right.

I always, I put those two back and forth.

I can't decide who's better at singles or who's better at mixed levels or men's.

So, but I have at five fed that speaking of someone that has a possible triple crown

choice or, you know, possibility fed so good at singles, I couldn't decide if I wanted

to fed or Alshon on top.

I flipped flopped him repeatedly, but I got fed at five.

Yeah.

I'd probably echo fed there.

All right.

The number four I got Hayden.

I'll put Alshon in that spot.

Alshon.

All right.

I just think Hayden is much better than Alshon when it comes to doubles.

Maybe it, maybe I'm wrong.

So am I under rating Christian Alshon when it comes to his ability to dominate doubles?

Like, at least based on results, like, you know, he's consistently up there and mixed

and in men's.

So and and a much better singles player than Hayden.

That's fair.

All right.

Now here's the, what I kept thinking about back and forth, back and forth.

And in the end, I put Anna Bright at number three.

Are we the same?

Yeah.

I think I'd go Anna Bright three because she could play very good singles.

Like, didn't she beat Leia or something the one time she played singles last year?

Yeah.

I don't know what that was.

She did.

She beat Leia lost to Kate Fahey on like a tough either two game or three game match.

So like, I think if Anna Bright played a full slate of singles, she's top five if not

top ten singles.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

But now, here's a question.

Here's a question is is there.

So number two, I have been, but is there any argument to be made for Anna Bright being

ahead of Ben on our pound for pound lists on a ranking of best players in the world overall?

Mm.

Yeah.

No, because Ben is the best guy.

And I'll lead is the best girl.

Like Anna Bright's obviously like obviously a very clear second.

But no, I think you got to go with the guy.

He Ben is Ben's the best men's doubles player.

He's the best mixed doubles player on the men's side.

I think you got to go with the guy who's ranked number one in both of those.

Whereas Anna Bright's the number two in women's doubles, arguably two or three in mixed doubles.

I think technically now she's number one in women's doubles.

Technically, that's for ranking.

Technically, but nobody believes it, including her.

Yeah, it was tough because I kept thinking, all right, Anna Bright can't play with Analy

Waters and Mixed.

You know, I'm Ben Can.

So Ben gets this ability to play with, you know, the other best player.

I think Analy Waters is head and shoulders above everybody at number one.

I think we obviously all know that.

We almost didn't even need to, you know, finalize the list.

There's, I didn't even ask you.

Did you have Ben at number one and number two?

No, no, I had him at number two, Analy's number one.

Obviously.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And if we were to do an MLP draft, Analy goes number one, Ben goes number two.

Are we drafts?

We see.

Yeah.

We have probably.

My Anna Bright number two.

I think that's a great question.

Anna Bright might go potentially not.

I don't know.

What are you picking?

I might go Anna Bright number two.

I think I might go Anna Bright too.

Here's the thing that I think about is I think Analy Waters is a clear, obvious number

one.

There's nobody can make any other decision than Anna Lee Waters number one.

Well, I think you could make a, you could make a case for Ben, Anna Bright or Hayden at

number two.

I don't think I can really make a case for Hayden at number two.

I just think Hayden could play with anybody.

Like I feel like at least an MLP.

Maybe it, you know, not in terms of overall skill, but I feel like you put Hayden, he can

play right, he can play left, he has more intensity.

I don't know.

He's just on the number one Ben Hader.

But I don't know.

I think that you could put Anna Bright at number two.

I think you would Hayden at number two or I think the safe, the safe bet is Ben.

But yeah, fair enough.

But what's the impression about it?

It seems pretty good and then I'm not going to do it.

Hey, he's, I thought we were, people were sort of starting to write Ben off a little bit

at the end of, or towards the middle of, of last year or, or beginning of last year.

But I mean, he's really, he's really brought it again, made himself clearly the number

one, the best player again, where it wasn't quite as clear for a period of time there.

But yeah, so I, I like this little hypothetical that we, that we had here.

This is, this is a good conversation starter.

Yeah.

So guys in the comments, let us know what we got right.

Let us know what Nico got wrong.

And yeah, let us know if you got other ideas for, for fun games like this.

Ben, no, Nico, there's no way Nico came up with it himself.

I, I did, I did my best.

I looked at a boxing list.

I tried to explain it to you, you know, your ability to translate it into actual weight

for pickleball players.

Insane.

Um, I think the biggest question for all the people that are looking at these lists is like,

who, who goes first?

Hayden, Fed, Alshon and your power rankings.

That's where we kind of had a little carousel, uh, of the top.

But, no, I mean, it's an only water's world and then everybody else, uh, is, it has a

significant drop off, uh, which is why she gets to play the US open and nobody else does

there enough except her partner gate or partner, uh, Jay, um, all right.

So lastly, Zane, you have pickleball court.

Did you have any chance while you were in Vietnam with no money with your wife on a, on a

cruise or on a tour to be an asshole to anybody?

Yeah, it was completely un pickleball related, but I was at the end of my 24 hours of flying.

And I've told you about why we can't have nice things in the airport.

It's because everybody stands directly on top of the baggage claim thing.

This is nothing to do with pickleball guys.

So if you, if you were not here for that, like, but, but it was me being an asshole kind

of, so anyway, I get there first and this is not a crowded flight.

This is my flight from LA to Sacramento that was like, half full.

And I'm like, you know, I'm like 10 feet back from the thing because there's like 20

people around the baggage claim all spaced out.

This guy, there's 10 feet of space to the left of me.

There's 10 feet of space to the right to me.

There's 10 feet of space in front of me by the baggage claim.

This guy comes and stands like two feet directly, directly in front of me.

I'm like, what the fuck is going on?

You could have stood anywhere.

There's plenty of space.

So anyway, I walk out from directly behind him, go in front of him and stand six inches

in front of this guy.

And there's just nobody within like, there's nobody within like 20 feet of us, right?

But I just literally walk out from behind him, stand six inches in front of him, and then

just stand there.

So am I the asshole?

No, this is like the ultimate power, moose passive aggressive.

It feels like I was in a nepotent of curb your enthusiasm, dude.

I'm like, what is going on here?

No, I mean, yes, I think that a bigger person would let this slide and just deal with it.

You were out to prove a point and get the upper hand.

So I think that is kind of the definition of being an asshole.

Do I approve of it?

Absolutely.

I think probably every single male listener of our podcast does.

And every single wife that had to witness this has secondhand embarrassment of the whole

situation and is calling you an asshole.

That's probably the best take you've ever had, Nico.

Well, on that note, I'm an asshole and that is the pickle pod.

Pickle pod.