‘Memento’ Revisited | A Dream of Nolan Spring

Hello, welcome back to House of R. I'm Joanna Robinson. I officially live in Los Angeles.

That's my Ruben. She lives in the same town I do.

Hi, do you mind me?

It's the thrill of my life to share a studio, a podcast, a city, a creative mind, a rich

and vibrant experience in a life with you. I'd also like to say, nice shot, Leibowitz!

Memento!

Here we are. Okay, so it is 25 years later.

Yeah.

Memento, part of our Nolan trek to the Odyssey.

Yeah.

This is something that we have been doing slowly, but surely, then we're going to ramp it up

three months later. Because the Odyssey will be here quite soon, and we have one, two, three,

four, five, six movies left. It's fine. We're halfway there.

You're halfway. It's time for everything to go from black and white to color, and we'll

get into Al Memento right after this.

So, we're going to go to the Odyssey.

We're going to go to the Odyssey.

We're going to go to the Odyssey.

We're going to go to the Odyssey.

We're going to go to the Odyssey.

We're going to go to the Odyssey.

We're going to go to the Odyssey.

We're going to go to the Odyssey.

We're going to go to the Odyssey.

We're going to go to the Odyssey.

We're going to go to the Odyssey.

We're going to go to the Odyssey.

We're going to go to the Odyssey.

We're going to go to the Odyssey.

Before we go back, we're going to go back and forth in time and explore the limitations of memory

and reality and all of that, just a small task here for the beginning of the week for us.

What else do we have going on this week?

Here's what's happened.

We watched a couple of upstairs and we were like, that was pretty nice, but it was okay.

Then we watched the beginning of, or,

I'm going to say we, we watched the beginning of episode four, we went, oh my gosh.

Dared I love episode four.

Our guy Dex, my guy Dex, but he can be ours if you want to share.

Feeding cats, doing all sorts of stuff.

So we're going to do a Dared Apple midseason check-in later this week.

We are.

We're going to watch episode five then we will do a halfway through the season.

I'm expecting big things for episode five.

It just feels like the midseason mark, something fun should happen.

Great time to check back in.

You have some theories.

We'll see how they pan out.

It's just a long way into the season for certain characters to not have appeared.

So my hopes are high.

We'll find out.

Okay.

So that's something we have coming up.

We have some, I have some like big plans for May now that I'm here in Studio.

I have a lot of thoughts and feelings about that.

So we will, we will see what, what comes in May.

There's a lot going on, a lot that we're excited for.

It's not to mention House of Dragons coming later on, etc.

Right.

Yeah.

Not a Rubin.

How can folks keep track of everything we're doing?

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Okay.

So the Nolan Trek.

That's right.

Here we are.

Yes.

As I mentioned, six more films to go.

Yes.

Two Batman films.

Yeah.

The Fall, some lesser works, the following and Insomnia.

Mm-hmm.

And then Tenet.

That's right.

And then the big boy Oppenheimer.

Tenet definitely, I think, the leader in the like bad babies,

reaching out and saying, give Tenet the appropriate consideration that it deserves.

All we are saying is give peace and Tenet a chance.

That's what our listeners are saying.

I am excited to revisit Tenet.

I truly am.

It's been a minute since I saw that and could not hear

a single word that was uttered in it.

So I'm excited.

Watching it at home with the closed captioning on,

it might be just like a completely different experience.

Are you going to do the closed captioning when you watch it?

I don't think all of the choice.

I mean, I'll watch it without and then I'll watch it again with.

But I did watch it at home the first time and then you watch it for more.

And then you'll watch it backwards.

Yes, exactly.

Okay.

What is this time?

This is the sort of most spiritual twin to a Mento is Tenet.

I think that obviously one of the fun things about doing this Nolan

Revisitation and the run up to the Odyssey is realizing how many of the films

not only navigate like memory or dreamscape or something,

but the idea of time and the passage of time, both in our lives,

but also structurally and formally in the process of making a movie.

So the non-linear nature of this movie,

I think certainly Tenet is difficult not to think about,

especially given that this is like early in his career in Tenet is late

in his career.

That's like a fascinating thing across many, many years, decades of storytelling.

But you know, Duncirk, the like distillation of time inside of certain

storylines that we're moving in and how we realize as you watch that movie,

like time is passing differently inside of those three stories.

In terms of color.

In terms of color.

Yeah, in terms of color and time dilation.

Obviously, Inception, Limbo, the way the time moves

more quickly as you go deeper down the layers, etc.

So so many of his films, I mean, it's also like

you know, the theme of great men, which we've talked about across the episodes,

the Deadwives.

The throughlines are like really undeniable, which has been like a

part of the fun of the journey here.

The Deadwife Ertext question.

No question.

Patient zero.

Unbelievable.

Yeah.

All right, so let's get into some quick facts.

Directed by Christopher Nolan, have you heard of him?

I have.

Screenplay by Chris Nolan based on the shorts.

It's complicated, but based on the short story,

I meant to mory by my beloved Joe Nolan, Jonathan Nolan.

US wide release March 16, 2001.

Budget five to nine million dollars on the cheap.

While this was made on the cheap box office domestic $25 million

international $14 million.

So worldwide $39 million return on a five to nine million dollar investment.

Pretty good.

Pretty, pretty good.

Would have cost more if Brad Pitt had been in it.

Certainly.

We'll talk about that.

Pretty fucking good.

And obviously a movie that has a lasting cultural impact and legacy and level of

adoration that well exceeds that already impressive gap between what it

costs to make and what it earned in the box office.

This is the movie that people have a lot of affection for.

And maybe more accurate than affection is admiration for.

I think this is something that people consider like a very impressive

feat of filmmaking and something that very early in the Nolan brother run declared them as

not only like intellectual filmmakers, but filmmakers of bold intention,

which is one of the things I really love about it, especially as we are considering 25 years.

Yeah.

The movie making.

I mean, I love this movie.

I think I talked about this.

How my friend and I watched this right before we went to go see Inception.

And theaters would be like rewatch memento at home.

And then what I want you on that day.

We were on Red Bull, but no other drugs.

Okay.

So close enough, but we went to like a midnight showing of of Inception.

So it was like this.

Oh my gosh.

From you know, like nine to eleven.

And then we went to go see Inception from midnight to whatever.

So what a journey.

It was a great it was a great evening.

So I guess this was a huge of course a huge calling card for a director.

But I think what's interesting you mentioned Brad Pitt.

I think if you if they had gotten Brad Pitt to be in this movie,

then this becomes part of like a Brad Pitt mind-fuck trilogy.

For sure.

With seven with fight club.

And so what becomes really clear when you think I mean like they bleached

Guy Pierce's hair.

Like they're clearly trying to invoke Brad here.

Right.

And so in doing so, it's very clear that Nolan is trying in a way to make a fincher movie here.

And so there's a lot of smudgy fingerprints of all the things that he's interested in in terms

of like time and memory and all of the things that you've mentioned in a lot of that formal.

How do we mess with the flow of time or color versus black and white or different layers of reality

all this sort of like there's stuff that is undeniably Nolan.

But I think it's really fun to watch us as a young new filmmaker trying to sort of belong to a trend

which then later you know and to a certain degree when Nolan makes the Batman films,

he's also trying to sort of be part of an existent.

And then eventually we'll get to things that we just call this is a Nolan movie.

Yes.

You know, that's not an honorific he had yet here at the beginning of his career.

He's just trying to sort of like, you know, in Jonathan Nolan's idea of

what if there's a guy who cannot form new memories.

Yes.

And then in Christopher Nolan's idea of what if I tell this story backwards?

So let's just put a hat on a hat and do that.

So those two ideas combine create this incredible confection.

But once again, he's sort of it's fun to watch directors of the beginning of their career

really sort of try to play in structures that were created by other people,

buildings that were created by other people and certainly finchers playing in

buildings that were created by other people.

And then slowly just sort of create landscapes worlds and entire worlds that are their very own.

I love that.

And you know, I think we've been getting at aspects of that as we've gone because we haven't gone.

We can pretend it was just deliberately that we were always intending to do the entire

filmography and decided not to go unkind of logical order.

But we started with like these are three movies, a couple of which have

anniversaries last year.

And one of which we just really want to talk about because we're talking about these others.

And then we thought, honestly, is next year let's do them all, right?

And so we've had moments to consider like a version of that.

But I really agree with you that this is a great moment to kind of present that thesis more

fully because what we were talking about a few minutes ago with these through lines, these

undeniable strands of DNA that are like inextricable from all aspects of consideration when Nolan is

like, this is a story that I am drawn to and this is my version of it that I want to tell.

But one of the things that is I think like so consistently intriguing about him as a filmmaker

is that he does dabble in those different genres.

And so you have here not only the other filmmakers who he admires, who their influences present

here, but then you know you read these stories about like, oh, so do it.

I was like, I gotta help get this movie just true, beat it right?

All of these things track and make sense.

You have something like

Duncirk, which is a period piece.

You have something like Oppenheimer, which is a historical drama at a stonishing scale.

So he has never ceased being interested in dabbling across different genres.

And yet we did hit that point as you noted where it's like that becomes part of a Venn diagram,

but the largest circle is like, this is a Nolan movie.

The Nolan movies are always going to be in other genres.

I mean, he's about to do the Odyssey.

Right.

Like that's like the ultimate genre movie in some ways.

A grand literary adaptation, a biopic of this that, you know, a World War II epic,

like all this sort of stuff, but they all in their own way.

And we haven't seen the Odyssey.

We don't know how it's, we know the story, but we don't know exactly how it's structured.

But there will be something funky.

But in thinking about watching Memento and thinking about watching Leonard think about his wife,

watching Cobb think about his wife.

We know that Odysseus is going to be thinking about his wife.

This is trying to get home.

And like in terms of when does, when will we be flashing back to the war versus Odysseus

is sort of adventures on the sea versus like what happens when he gets home, you know,

in what order will all of those stories be told, you know, I would say.

There is zero chance that it is not.

Nonlinear is what we would have to guess.

And so that's exciting to me to think about.

Very.

And like to be at the early days here where it's like smaller and cheaper and more street level,

that feels so, it's because they're early in their careers as out of necessity.

It's practical at the time, but like it feels so appropriate because he's telling a like a great

detail, right?

There's a thriller aspect.

I am navigating the streets of my former life trying to figure out this thing.

It's there's a new war quality to it.

Certainly the California setting is like helpful in that respect.

It's not the last time.

Obviously that Nolan was interested in somebody in the story or us as the audience engaging with a

mystery, but when you get to like,

proceed, a movie we both love and have already talked about, there are so many puzzle elements

to that movie, much as there are here.

It could not feel like more distinct in terms of the style of it than Memento does.

And so his ability like kind of strike that balance where each movie is a little bit new,

right?

Obviously we have like the Batman trilogy, but you know, you have a space movie.

They're all a little bit new in terms of the setting and the genre that they dabble in,

but everything inside of them is unmistakably Nolan.

Like you can't watch one of these movies and not know that it's a personal movie.

I think also that something that we clocked, I think initially when we were talking about Inception,

this idea of legibility, how, however confusing and naughty with a K, the structure is, right?

You can follow what's happening because there are clues that will help you.

Whether it's we're in black and white or we're in color, but also it rewards for watching.

And this is something, you know, this is baked into the story we're watching here when we,

when we see Leonard's wife talking about rereading a book and the pleasure of rereading a book,

you know?

And so Nolan's like, come rewatch my films.

And if you rewatch especially my like most mysterious films, you will see the answers were

always there right at the beginning for you.

Right.

Leonard's wearing a suit that doesn't fit him right for the very beginning, you know?

There are questions you can ask yourself in the very, very beginning of this movie.

If it's in better than it should, but yes.

It is right away something that you might.

You know, there's just a lot that's just right there at the very beginning of the movie for you

that upon rewatch becomes more and more and more satisfying.

And it can be disorienting to watch a cultural movie for the first time, but I don't think you're ever

at sea so much that you can't follow the emotional reality of what's going on.

And for this, especially I would say in light of the idea of

this fitting inside of the world of Fight Club or Seven,

yes, two movies that I really, really like, but I don't feel as emotionally connected to as I do

to this movie.

And this is, this is, you know, my ongoing thesis being that like when Jonathan and Chris work together,

that is the perfect pairing of sentimentality and intellect to create this kind of story that I

respond to best. And so I think Leonard's quest being so emotionally rooted in the pain of the

loss of his wife and his inability to properly grief her.

Right.

You know, how can I heal if I can't feel time?

You know, like all of these sort of ideas.

That is stickier to me than some of the like, albeit very fun sort of like

social critique aspects of particularly Fight Club, but also Seven.

But among all of those, those three stories and a lot of what Nolan likes to tell after this

is this idea of, can we ever know ourselves?

Are we always the most unreliable narrator to ourselves?

Right.

And that's, you know, I love, you know, thinking about that when it comes to the prestige,

the aim of that when it comes to this movie, Leonard is, is an unreliable narrator for us.

But like more importantly, an unreliable narrator for himself.

Yes. And it's one of the really indelible-ass spoilers for the rest of the way.

You know, one of the most indelible aspects of the movie, and I think there are honestly

any point and stretch of the film, you can say, like, this is the most memorable visual or

this is the line I did.

And it's part of, I'm excited about the categories today because I think it's the hardest exercise yet.

And isolating a specific moment or scene because inherently the nature of the way the movie is told

is that the black and white sequences are moving chronologically in one direction.

The color sequences are moving backwards and they always overlap a little bit to give you that

connective tissue to understand how they're being stitched together.

But that bleed, it's, you know, like, any time we get something wrong or forget something

on the pod today, we just have the meta cover of like, well, it's just really we're just like

channeling Leonard's spirit here.

But, you know, the fact that the choice, I agree with you, I think that the

the movie, because the movie invites you to be such a sleuth as you're watching it,

there's like a little bit of comfort that that grants you understand right away that you're not

supposed to understand right away, right?

And so trying to figure it out and piece it together is part of the fun.

There's like a really kind of engaging, immersive, like almost experiential quality to watching

memento, certainly for the first time.

But I agree with you, I think it, I will say that was an interesting part of prepping for this pod,

was like revisiting some of the commentary around it when it first came out.

And, you know, if this were re-watchables, Bill would be pulling e-burts and stuff.

And like, there's definitely a little bit of a, when I came back to it a second time,

like, it wasn't as fun.

That's not my experience or your experience with it.

And I don't think it will be my listeners experience with it.

I think it is such an interesting thing to like, identify those strands and look for those clues

on a re-watch.

I agree. I can understand that.

That like, if the, if the biggest pleasure you derive was sort of the twists or something like that.

And then you're like, well, I know the twists, but that's not how you and I watch things.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And I think like the way that structure serves as, I mean, this is a movie featuring mirrors

in a number of respects, right?

Mirror so that you can see backwards tattoos, etc.

Photographs?

Photographs, that's boy.

What really makes you want to have a polaroid and take pictures?

I mean, the compressed polaroid that like you can kind of wear as a, a little, a little purse.

Great stuff.

I love that. There's, you know, there's a number of times where he's like sort of adjusting

and it reminds me of like a gun hole.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And I actually like, I had, it had been a few years since I had seen me.

I meant to answer the first time I was re-watching this a couple weeks ago.

Like, I had to pause.

I was like, did, is that a, because there are many guns in the film as well.

And you're like, oh no, right.

That's how it carries.

Well, all right, really fun.

But, you know, the structure is putting us intentionally, deliberately, in that mirror position

for Leonard.

Leonard can't remember more than the few moments he is inhabiting and his life before

the injury, right?

That is his, to use his word, condition.

And so the fact that we are watching those events backwards puts us in that exact spot

that he's inhabiting, we only know what he knows in that moment.

We can't, we can't know what came before because we haven't seen it yet.

Right.

He can't know what came before because he can't remember it.

Right.

And that's just a really, really brilliant and interesting choice

that unlocks a degree of empathy for you as a viewer that then makes you either really

destabilized by what happens at the end or complicit in it.

And obviously, I think one of the things we'll talk about today is like where we stand on,

you know, do you believe what Teddy says?

One of the things that's interesting about the movie is kind of doesn't matter because Leonard

makes the choice that he makes.

Anyway, to say you're going to be my John G, right?

But it's just like, boy, it's fun.

It's thematically rich.

It's really well performed.

And it's like very tidy and contained for a film with such big ideas and intention.

Like, it's so compact compared to so many of Nolan's like sweeping grand epics that

follow. It's really interesting to consider.

And I think that to your point about the, you know, the, the She-String budget and the

Capac nature, again, like Christopher Nolan, such a new filmmaker, getting this movie made with,

yeah, it's made on She-String, but Guy Pierce is coming off of Ellie Confidential.

Carrie Moss is coming off the Matrix.

Joe Pantalliano is coming off the Matrix.

You know, like these are three actors who are coming off some of the busiest films that

ever were in the late, in the late 90s.

And so there was a lot of shine and excitement to it.

I remember, so this is like really early days of me reading movie blogs.

This is like the beginning of, okay.

Yeah.

Being like someone who reads entertainment websites.

And there was the one that I got sucked into because they had a robust

Bathamian Pairslayer message board.

But the one I got sucked into was

Canadian website called Corona.

It was like corona.bc.ca, I believe, as the, was the,

you are, does not exist anymore.

I didn't even like go on on the way back machine I should have to just poke around.

But I like, I was on there every day.

That was like my entertainment website and I was on the message boards.

And I wasn't like, I wasn't like a, anyway, you know, like,

I'm just reading.

No, I would post a little bit.

But like, they're, you know, in the early days of message boards,

maybe this is still the case, probably still the case in like certain subreddits, whatever.

There are people who are like, you're like, oh, I remember that person.

I was not like a memorable person on this on these message boards.

I was very, I was very young and very like new to the internet.

But what I remember is the first news write up.

I saw this movie coming out.

The guy who ran the website would just call it Autnamem.

He would just write it backwards all the time because of the structure of the story.

I love it.

And it was just like a bit that he did.

And I just like, that's how I say it in my head.

I just say Autnamemem in my head.

Oh my god.

It imprinted on you.

Yeah.

I love knowing this about you.

So that's a beautiful memory.

But I just think that like, so,

Christmas and early in his career, getting this movie made

with the help of an idea, Jerm from his brother,

who was still in school.

And his girlfriend, who is now his wife and is enduring a producing partner, Emma.

Emma got this in front of, you know, the right people so that it could get made.

So it's like a, it's a family affair in every way.

Emma gets a tattoo parlor named after herself in this movie.

That's right.

But, um, yeah.

But I love that.

That it's just sort of like made with, with the family structure around him

that he's still very much, you know, interacts with and relies upon.

You mentioned the Brad Pitt of it all.

Yes.

Initially cast had to pass on it due to scheduling conflict.

The Brad Pitt, what if of, was cast and almost famous and dropped out.

So Billy Cretop says, thank you very much and was cast in this and couldn't do it.

And so Guy Pear says, thank you so much for this, uh, you know,

building block of my career.

Interesting.

What if for Brad Pitt here in, in 2000, I do, I mean, Brad Pitt's, you know, just,

obviously always great.

I do think that we agree that almost famous just shouldn't be touched.

So any kind of alternate history there is, you know, I think about Sarah Polly all the time.

I love to.

Yeah.

And as Penny Lane, but Sarah, Sarah Polly is Penny Lane is, as a different movie.

And it's really true to me.

Yeah.

I think, I do think, and I think Guy Pear says, wonderful.

As Leonard Brad Pitt would have killed this.

Brad Pitt would have killed this, but I think he would have just overshadowed it.

It would have been a Brad Pitt movie.

It would have been a Chris, I don't think it would have been as much of a calling card for

Christopher Nolan.

It would have burnish Brad Pitt's, you know, career.

Yeah.

Would even more people right away have discovered it because it was Brad Pitt.

And even more people right away have said like, oh my god, what are these Nolan brothers up to?

Some other options here.

Charlie Sheen, horrible.

That's a no.

Allie Baldwin, possible.

2000, I can see it.

Interesting.

Aaron Eckhart.

Nolan will come back to him.

He sure will.

Tom Jane.

Honestly, I love Tom.

Like if you would have been good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If you think about, you know, the expands, like what Tom Jane does in the beginning of the

expands, this is like essentially the same role.

So I'm a big Tom Jane fan personally.

But Guy Pearce is fantastic.

Coming off of Ellie Confidential, so people are like very used to him in this

war setting his voice overwork in this.

I was a huge persiliquity in the desert fan.

So Guy, I don't know if you've ever, have you seen persiliquity in the desert?

I don't think so.

Oh my god.

Guy Pearce Hugo weaving a Terence stamp.

It is like one of the best movies that is ever.

But Guy Pearce is doing something so entirely different in that movie.

So like seeing persiliquity in the desert and then Ellie Confidential and then this,

I was like, Guy Pearce is going to be the biggest star in the whole world.

That didn't happen for him and and I'm curious, I'm curious if he's in enough.

But you know, despite it just being on the rewatchables, how rewatchable for younger generations

is Ellie Confidential.

Memento certainly is part of Nolan's filmography has to be like sort of essential

viewing for certain people and then like, Killian, MCU.

Right.

Iron Man.

But there, I was thinking about this like there wasn't like there isn't a frant, you know,

he's not in a matrix or he wasn't in Lord of the Rings or you know, like there isn't,

there isn't a thing that I know that everyone watches all the time.

And even if he's a pointless boy or he are just eating with their thriving, you know,

he kills a brutalist.

Really fucking good in the world.

For me, his fans are like, what are you talking about?

I'm a Guy Pearce.

But I don't know, I'm curious like what his,

Hobbit The Dragons of GMO.com, if you're a young listener of this podcast,

do you know who Guy Pearce is?

Oh man, this is a sad question.

He really doesn't have to ask.

I think he should be, but I don't know.

This bums me out.

I love Guy Pearce.

I've always loved him and I'll save this for one of the categories that we have today.

But I did find myself really, especially because you get a few movies into Nolan's

filmography and as we have tracked across the pods, he uses so many of the same performers

across this film and I was like, boy, you never showed up again.

Turns out there's an answer for that, which we'll get to later in the pod.

But he's just wonderful and I think he has such a presence.

I find his Leonard to be like a really wonderful combination of

heartwarming and you feel so keenly and deeply for him so quickly.

And there are these moments of just like grave despair and then you watch him do these things.

And obviously he's navigating this life circumstances.

Even when he does these things, you have this level of empathy and understanding and

forgiveness and then you get to the end and you're like, holy fuck.

And he could just command all of that.

I find the quality of the, especially in the black and white sequences, the phone calls.

There is a, and so much of the movie is just his voice.

There is a like lullaby like hypnotic quality to the way that he is speaking in those scenes

that really kind of heightens that effect of, I'm sucked in and full.

This has my complete attention.

But I'm also like Leonard, while I just like snap to and right you try.

You know, there's just something that kind of like wolves you into this hypnotic state.

So that's just, that's really interesting.

I think he's great.

LA Confidential is one of my dad's favorite movies like Ever.

So, you know, that is one of my main associations.

But I do think for me, with love and respect to Iron Man 3,

I think Memento is like my first association with Guy Pierce all these years later.

It's not a bad one.

Yeah.

I honestly think the movie of his that I've seen the most is percilicating the desert.

But I think that any answer is a good answer for Guy Pierce.

And I do think that he should have been even bigger than he was.

I think there's something about, yeah, the timbre of his voice,

the, you know, the slight what's going on there of his, like sort of Australian English accent,

that's part of it.

You know, like his American accent is very good.

But there is just slightly off in a way, you know,

he's speaking to this part of that is very interesting.

This played Venice Film Festival, then TIFF, then Sundance, which is in the model of Memento,

a very unusual order for a movie to play.

Like Venice and TIFF is normal, but to go from TIFF to Sundance is like,

that's usually the previous year would have played Sundance or something like that.

But that is how we got it.

And another fun fact that I think is just really interesting to think about at the time is that

Jonathan Nolan designed the website for Memento and they were going for a real like Blair Witch project

viral moment, which they will revisit again when they do the Dark Knight,

you know, the Joker stuff was, was very inspired by this.

But I just like, it's just such of a moment of just like, we're making a mystery box movie.

We built a weird little website, you know, like come, come enjoy, come welcome into our world,

you know.

There are a lot of great little aspects of this film's like kind of early stretch of time, you know, the,

the DVD menu, like the letters tattoos, like things that just feel so

you can unlock the chronological order if you play exactly right answers to some questions.

Yeah, which is like a great and smart way to include like a bonus feature on a DVD,

if you wanted to watch this like an order.

And yeah, it's interesting too to like hear Nolan talk over the years about like, and this makes

complete sense crafting the story that way initially.

And then of course, breaking it up and reordering it to actually make the movie like, yeah,

you would need to understand all the story was in sequence.

It's a fascinating thing, but watching it that way, which I've never done, but what would be

interested to do on it?

I'd just be like such a radically different experience.

I think it's an interesting experiment, but it's not like a more rewarding experience.

Yeah, and I imagine it's like quite a bit like less rewarding actually as an experience,

which then you start to get into like how much of what makes the movie so effective is the story

itself versus the structure.

And that's like an interesting thing to consider.

And then you know, I thought it because this was a Jonathan Nolan idea and story and he did

publish, Momentumori, Momentumori, which like, and just this recent stretch of time,

makes me of course think right away of right fine.

Yes.

28 years later, wonderful, wonderful association to have with that incredible scene.

The fact that that was public, even though the story existed and was the germ of this film,

that that was then published after.

So it was nominated for best original, right?

Screenplay at the Academy Awards.

It's just like a fascinating kind of meadow, like a fascinating little bit of sequencing there that

it's just like an interesting little nugget in the history of the film.

Something I've mentioned a couple times when going through this Nolan Filmography,

especially for the Jonah Nolan movies that we've covered is that

when I was trying to unlock the mystery of season one of Westworld,

I spent a lot of time studying Jonathan Nolan's other stories to really help me understand

like what he was most interested in these these these and I think inception prestige and

this movie were incredibly instructive to me in understanding I don't need to spoil Westworld

season one for anyone even though you cannot find Westworld anymore.

It like has kind of yeah, it's not on HBO anymore.

It's just true.

Yeah, it's like, finished.

What?

That's true.

Oh no.

Kai Grady and I were looking for it the other day because we were both like we're the only ones

we know who like watched all of Westworld.

But, um,

geez.

The mystery of season one of Westworld is so twisty and fun and I will not spoil it for people,

but in order to figure it out before it was revealed on the show, which was something,

uh, you know, I was only able to do because I would like study and the so like when

when you watch Leonard talk about memory and memory and healing and the way in which, uh,

his his memory prevents him from processing his grief or feeling understanding love in the

passage of time, where you think about in um, in interstellar, I think I said inceptionally,

I meant interstellar when you think about interstellar and you think about and half ways

character talking about love as this force said like, you know, stretches across galaxies and stuff

like that. Um, and then you watch Westworld without spoiling with the twist is like you watch someone

struggle with their memory and flashes of memory and and, uh, sort of dissociating into different

parts of their own timeline. Um, that I like, it's just fascinating to me that these ideas were

here from the very beginning for these for these brothers and for for Jonathan Nolan especially,

you know, so when I think about like, what is the piece of art that was most influenced by

memento, I think it might be Westworld actually, which again, like, I don't know how enduring that is,

but it was a huge like the first season of Westworld. The first season was incredible.

Massive and like incredibly good. And, uh, I'm really grateful that it exists and I don't think

it exists without this movie existing. So, and that idea is still kicking around inside of his head,

you know, I love that. And I like having the Jonathan Nolan version of that given how much time

we've emphasized that idea for Christopher Nolan, you know, the what are the through lines even in

a different form. And like, you know, memory, this is such a specific way to explore a specific

challenge with memory like Leonard has gone through a trauma and an emotional and an

physical one and cannot form new memories. Right. But can create lies for himself. But came and

and everything about the way the film exports conditioning and the habit. That's what I mean.

Like, the remember Sammy Jenkins, like, sort of like lie that he yes for himself that he can

upon repetition, you know, only every time I see it, like, do you tell me that story? Exactly.

He is conditioned himself into this thing. I think that's the most fascinating thing is like,

you can't form new memories. Yeah. But you can form a new lie. And falls, you can plant a false memory.

Yeah. And you can form the parameters for how you navigate your circumstance, right? And the

things that you tell other people in yourself. And so, like, you know, memory as a a concept to

explore and a thing to play with in a specifically a lens to that examine questions of like, well, who are

you based on what your connection to your own memory is? And I love the way like, well, this will come

up in some of the categories, but like, when Leonard kind of tears down memory and props up fact,

it's like a, you know, champions fact as the thing that you can really put your trust in. And then

you come to understand like, what it means to think that way. But like, you know, there are so many

different reasons that a person's memory can be affected. Right? Illness, trauma, injury, technology,

like the way that you explore what's happening. And it's debilitating steam. So,

they're just like, huffing creatine to try to preserve our crumbling brain.

Yes. Exactly. So, like, this is such a specific rendering of it, but it does tap into larger

questions. And I love, I love that more broadly as we've talked about this many times over the

years, a number of podcasts like, you know, and black mirror pods talking about like an episode,

like play test or something, which is not my favorite black mirror episode. But is one I really

admire? Because, you know, this question of like, can you trust your own mind? Is always a

fascinating one because like, what does it mean if you can't? And how do you navigate that? And

there are obviously really devastating things that people can go through as they are grappling

with that. And it can happen slowly. And you can be really aware of it or it can happen just

instantly. And you have no ability to like even understand what has happened until it has.

You know, it's like one of the more, uh, uh, unmooring aspects of your humanity that you could have

to like learn to relate to and assess in a new way. And so the fact that Leonard is such a

active interrogator of his own memory is like one of the things that makes this such a unique

way to to explore what memory means. He is consciously aware of it is he could possibly be.

Nobody is. And he isn't because like you, you, you watched him set up these parameters for

himself. Yeah. And then you watch some of the phone just be like, he's actually a drug dealer.

And he just like scratches out his own note. Just takes the, you know, never answer the phone.

But just like takes the word of someone like we watch him be led by Natalie, by all these people,

you know what I mean? For sure. I mean, just he is aware that he can't form new memories.

Like he is aware of his core circumstances or his condition. And that awareness guides every

choice he makes, however passively or act. I hear, I hear how we're like agreeing and disagreeing.

But I do think there is just like such a, his certainty of like poor Sammy couldn't do these

things. But I figured out a sister. So I find. So there's like a, there's an awareness,

but there's just this self delusion. Oh, of course. All the ways in which he is just like completely

unself aware. Yes. And that, and like again, how can any of us actually be aware of ourselves?

And I think that that is like something that Christopher Nolan, especially really believes,

is that we are all delusional and we all cannot see ourselves clearly. And all these great men,

you know, we, when we talk about Oppenheimer, we talk about all these other things, just sort of like,

there are things that Oppenheimer, let's say as a person, is aware of the things that he,

the damage that he has done to the world that he is aware of that weighs heavy on him.

Yeah. And then there are personal actions that he has enacted that he is just sort of

completely blind to. That's the dissonance that I think is so rich. Leonard is aware on an almost like

intellectual like theoretical level of the context of a circumstance. Yeah. But he is not aware

of his own ability to navigate that because how could he based on the specifics of this condition?

But also because how can any person be? Right. And so like, you get to something like Teddy saying at the end,

uh, Sammy,

going to throw this out there, like it was your wife who needed the insulin, right? It was your wife

who was a diabetic and the way that you flash to this pinch of the thigh that we'd seen previously.

And then we see it with the insulin surrender. And then we flash back again to the pinch and

Leonard's like, no, but the seed of doubt, a seed of doubt he won't retain in a couple minutes

still has the ability to like completely destabilize him in that moment. It's fascinating.

Honestly, my favorite line delivery of the whole movie is Joey Pance. When he's like, my wife

wasn't a diabetic and he goes, you sure? Yeah. I mean, Joey Pance is so fucking good at this movie.

You sure? I get his smiles at him in a way that's just like so diabolical. He's so good. He's amazing.

Um, yeah. Anything else do you want to say sort of broadly before we get into? You know,

there's a lot we can sort of, yeah, no, I don't think so. Let's get to our categories.

Let's get to our categories. All right.

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I should have a few categories off because this doesn't, you know,

not all of the broader Nolan sort of big, grand set piece ideas fit here in this movie.

Though I will say he said that he intentionally shot the motel. There's a couple motels in this

movie, but the main motel in this movie to look like an MC Escher drawing where you just like

are constantly confronted by like stairs and railings and all this sort of stuff like that in doors

and you know, letters in two different rooms inside of the same motel if only two.

Perhaps more, etc. And so, you know, he's trying to make a pen-roasted aircase out of just an ordinary

motel that he has, you know, only a couple mill to shoot at it, so like that.

Whereas Arthur to come in and say paradox bitch.

paradox a bitch.

All right. First category. Why? So serious. Funniest line or moment of the movie.

So it's not the funniest film, but it does. There are funnium moments.

I have a couple answers. Yeah. There are funny moments. So I have one Natalie nominee and I have two

Teddy contenders here. So I will go as my main pick before I hit the two runners up with when

Leonard finds Teddy like waiting or climbed in the jag and says you're still here because of Natalie.

Leonard says who's Natalie and the way the Joey Pants says,

Schmuck who's house do you think you just walked out of?

Like, so think about that. Schmuck just kills me and then Leonard pulls out the polaroids

and Teddy says, oh, that's right. Take a look at your pictures. I bet you got one of her and then

looks at it. Oh, nice shot. Leave it. It's just incredible. It's really hysterical. It's like

vintage Joey Pants. So that is my pick. What is your, what is your winner here?

I mean, I think the most obvious one for me is I don't think they'd let someone like me carry a gun.

That's my runner up. Yeah. Yeah. And then I fucking hope not from Teddy. That's my runner up.

It's so good. On the gun front though, nothing except the Gideon Bible where he pulls a door open

and there's just a gun there. Great moment. Genuinely great moment. And then I also, I think it's

really funny even though it's like very like sad and scary when Natalie just hides all the pens.

She just takes all the pens with her and you don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Like for the first time,

you don't really know sort of like why she's doing it or what she's done or whatever. But when

you rewatch, I just think it's like like very smart and really good. She's grabbed both of us.

She grabbed them with a quickness. Yeah. Um, my Natalie nominee is when they're at the cafe and

it's like, so you have information for me is that what your little note says, yeah. And then she says,

must be tough living your life according to a couple scraps of paper. You mix your laundry

list with your grocery list and you'll end up eating your underwear for breakfast. Very good.

Tough feedback. I think I was well delivered. Not those were my. That was my top three.

Karen Moss is really good at this. Okay. She is. You either die or hear or you live long enough

to see yourself become the villain. Who is the real villain of this movie? What's your pick?

Um, our healthcare system. Mm-hmm. Yeah. The insurance. Yeah. The health care. The health insurance.

That's a good one. Yeah. I might be living out with a pen too much, but I'm just sort of like,

I was like, oh, this is a, this is an indictment of health insurance. Yeah. It's the flashes to

Leonard and the Jankus family are quite distressing. Whatever level of reliability or unreliability is

actually at play there. The scene in particular where like she visits him at the office.

And he's like, we shouldn't even be talking to this and that. That was just, it's all quite upsetting. Yeah.

Mine is just sort of like the thing we've talked about a lot already, which is just memory,

but more specifically the way that memory is not presented is just like this, um,

haloed thing. You know, the fact that it, that we get to see from all angles. Well, okay, you see

somebody who is struggling to grapple with the absence of the ability to form new memories, but then

that person Leonard is saying like, we basically lectures Teddy about memories not even like,

not perfect, not even good. And then of course, I think if something like the affair, you know,

and how we get like to see how unreliable memories and questions for you is the affair. The

Earth Techs who always come back to exactly and Leonard's like, facts, not memories. That's how

you investigate. I know it's what I used to do. Look, memory can change the shape of a room. It can

change the color of a car and memories can be distorted. They're just an interpretation. They're

not a record and they're irrelevant if you have the facts. And you have moments where like Natalie,

Teddy across different parts of the film say to Leonardi version of like, you're not even going

to remember this if you do it. Like if you get the vengeance you seek, will you even feel it and

you know, very rewarding on a rewatch to see those seeds planted really early knowing where we're

going. And the choice Leonard will make it the at the very end to hunt Teddy to hunt John G.

But this idea that memory is this missing thing that has radically altered his life and also

something that he is saying, not only do I not need it, it is less helpful and less reliable and

less sure than the fact that I can write on a paper and learn to trust my own handwriting. And

like that is a warped idea that leads him to a very dark place. And so the way that we look at

memory from all angles, depending on whose vantage point we're in in a given moment and who is

like the spousing a certain idea, but then even went inside of one perspective like Leonardi,

we see a different relationship to that at the end is really fascinating. The something of fact

that I learned that I didn't know before preparing for this pot is the license plate that Teddy's

license plate throughout this movie is two different license plates that Christopher Nolan

swapped out on the car. And in one, it's the letter I you at the end and the other, it's the number

one and you because Leonard writes down the license plate and he just draws a straight line.

And the tattoo artist interprets that as a one right on the license plate on the DMV thing. It's

an I right. But physically the license plate in the color timeline is both. So it's great,

which is just like a fun little detail of just like, hey guys, what's reality? What's real anyway?

I love it. The other, oh, the motel industrial complex.

Bart! All right. Are you watching closely the most exquisitely gorgeous shot?

Wally Fester, you know, longtime collaborator of Christopher Nolan is on this movie here.

It's beginning of a beautiful friendship. What do you want to call out here?

Okay. So I am going with a bookend, but it's it's it's a joint pick. It's the both of my picks

are Polaroid moments. The Polaroid early and a Polaroid late. Yeah. So the opening, just the opening

visual of the film that starts over the opening credits, the visual of the Polaroid, you know,

the hand is shaking it. It's the peak of just the the the Janke's. Yeah. You don't really know,

you don't know yet, but you're starting to see things. And the way that the Polaroid is

rewinding out of clarity, out of focus, out of development, it's a visual primer for us of like the

way the movie is going to work, right? What the logic of the movie is going to be. It's obviously

very like, whoa, what am I watching right away? There's the mystery of like what you're actually

seeing in the Polaroid. That's a lot of blood. You know, whose body is that? Like all of the questions

right away. And again, the peak of the tattoo, because the Polaroids, the tattoo, the notes,

they're all of these different aspects of the visual language, the tapestry of the film. And so

you're getting a lot of that right away. And it's also just fucking cool and really memorable.

And then at the end, the Polaroid is what melts the timelines with Jimmy G when the

the we're looking in at the Jimmy G black and white Polaroid. And as it is developing, it

morphs into color and the timelines have connected at last. And that's, you know, there's like maybe like

the first one is just the beginning of the movie. That's like maybe like 10

ish minutes left at the movie, but it's basically the end of the film. Yeah. And so the way that

the Polaroids are visually deployed at the beginning and end to tell us how the time of the movie

is going to function and also just looks so like distinct and specific to this film. It's just great.

Does the bullet casing going into the gun give you tenet flashbacks? Now it does.

Now it gives me tenet hype and excitement to revisit that film that I have very little

attachment to currently. I mean, I think the Polaroid is the right answer. It is just so iconic and

the way it's used differently at the beginning of the end. But for me, I think it's the flash of

Lenny and Sammy's seat. Like when you see Steven Tbilowski, Sammy in the chair and the institution

and someone walks past him and like from just a few frames, it's guy pierces Lenny in the seat.

And it's just sort of like it's so quick. Blinken, you might miss it.

Gotta wash his back at home, you know, to sort of make sure. But like what that tells us about

the story and also that idea of like even before you understand that perhaps according to Tadyat

least Lenny's the one who killed his wife via insulin overdose. That idea of like

pretending to recognize, you know, like Steven Tbilowski is so good as Sammy, like really good

casting, I think. But just sort of that like sort of like puppy dog look on his face as people

walk by walk by because you can't remember everything. But he's just like is pretending to like to get

that pad on the head as the you know, voiceover tells us. But then you have Lenny like sitting in

that chair and you think about the way in which even before again, even before he better understands

the way in which he's blurred these stories in his mind, this is something that I've learned to do

to cope in the world. To be less embarrassed by the way my memory works, you pretend. Yeah.

That was sitting. Okay, I can't remember to forget you, the scene you think about the most.

This is a good example of a category that's like just really hard for this movie, I think. But

again, I went with something early in the film that I think is not only just excellent

in and of itself, but is such an effective primer for what the movie is going to be in also such a

lasting aspect of how we think about what it was. So I'm going with the first full glimpse of Leonard's

tattoo torso and arms and legs as he is studying. He's studying. He gets the open

example of Lopey studying John G's license and then he's looking at all of his tattoos and

you know, we're counting the information and the facts to himself and then this is the stretch where

on the heels, he has just explained to us his system and looked at this information and then he

goes to change. He sees everything and then he will right kill him. This is the like in this stretch,

the pastor ring. Yeah, it's it's it's you. I found you. You felt right and he is the one and then

kill him and we get to see, you know, as he is refreshing on this and we are seeing for the first

time, John G. Rape and murdered my wife find him and kill him. She has gone time still passes.

Consider the source. Memory is treachery. Don't trust your weakness. Eat. But she has placed

strategically right above his own dick. I guess the idea is that that's where he's like definitely

going to look every day, you know. If he is Tommy is rumbling and he's like, oh, I should eat.

Maybe would you get eat tattooed on your pubic bone? Then a very different.

For very different reasons and a very different context, you know, it's it's multifunctional,

which is I guess good for Leonard. Something to think about. I love the feel like that you need

to clarify that. That's not exactly what I was talking about. What font would you get the word eat

tattooed on your pubic bone? I got some notes on Leonard's font. Obviously, he's doing some of

these himself. Yeah, he's going to the parlor for some. That's another like dick and poke for.

Yeah. For us, yeah, the snapping of the pan is good. The ink and the sterilized oil for us.

For people who have any familiarity with tattoos and the healing process, you can see the very raw

red and certain areas. That's fresh, right? So many of these are healed, right? You know, they're

like your tattoo artist is posting this on Instagram, like caught a healed one. You know, so you know,

like time has passed right away. But then we see the facts, right? Mail, white, first name,

John or James, last name, G drug dealer. That's one of the very fresh ones. Car license number,

etc. So he thinks he's pieced this together. And it's just so harrowing because not only are we like,

okay, wow, this is how the movie is going to function. This is what the visual language of the film

and like the journey of discovery repeat on repeat, right? Inside of these scenes is going to be.

But there's something that's just so indelible about that, like kind of glimpse of the landscape

using your own body is like your notepad for these facts that you're amassing. And you wonder,

it's such an effective way really quickly in the film to like make you think, what would this person

have had to go through to get to this point? Right? What is his reality that he's like, on his

like collarbone, you know, one off your shirt. It's like the first thing anyone sees, right? Like,

it's like, it's what Natalie is confronted with when she wakes up like that word. Yeah. What

does that tell you so quickly about his life? What is what is written forwards and what is written

backwards and what is written like upside down or you know, write set up and all that sort of stuff

that the one that really kills me is the first name John or James because it feels really clear

because the or James is in a different, you know, handwriting. So it just seems really clear to me that

like Teddy wanting to expand his options for like drug dealers that they can go after is like

call them one day was just like, or it's James, you know, let's just add other J names to your arm

and perpetuity. What's going to happen to Lenny now that Teddy's no longer there to like lead him

around by the nose? Like what's that's a great question. And what I'll, I guess he'll keep, he'll keep

finding weight because his his purpose is completely entwined with being able to go on this like

perpetual hunt, right? To seek this vengeance endlessly. So I guess he is at the point. Well,

he will find a way to generate that for himself. I thought you were going to ask what happens when Teddy

when Leonard runs out of skin. Like does he have to start getting tattoos removed so that he has

fresh patches to then tattoo again? He's his whole back is clear. He's got a lot of real estate.

I mean, at a certain point though, he's going to run out. He's going to run out.

The maybe he'll die before that maybe Dottal just come back to town to get like really sketchy

plan and just be like, yeah, I'm out of town. Diamond back that part makes no sense. My guy Leo

has been though, always great to see him, always great to see him. All right. My answer for this is

so Harriet Tansom Harris who plays Mrs. Jenkins who is like a perhaps complete construction

of Lenny's own mind. I love this actress. She, I met her, she's, she was a long-running

guest star and phrasier, but she's also like an incredible Phantom Thread. She's just a great

like wherever she shows up. I think she's so good in this movie. Like I think she, she like runs

away with a lot of the movie for me. And but it's just the scene where, you know, she dies. Like

even even if it's like a fake memory, just like again, and I also think Stephen Tabalowski is

really good. So just sort of like his, you know, cheerful and her despair, you know,

winding the clock hand out. Yeah. And then just sort of like his, his absolute desolation once

she's dead, you know, and his bewilderment. Or even earlier, like when she's sort of like

frustratedly yelling at him and he's just like confused and upset and all this sort of like that.

Or you know, this is, this is a classic smuggle. But like honestly, any of her scenes, when she

goes to talk to Lenny in his office, you know, I mean, he's asking about her, her husband. But,

but I think for me, it's, it's, you know, time for my shot, time for my shot, time for my shot.

You know, it's just like that, I think about that a lot. Yeah. That's, it's really upsetting. I love,

I love those scenes because they like, I mean, I don't know that the much bathroom

is subtle, but like, you know, meme bracket complimentary, right? Like I, I love the way that

her character in particular, um, ask the question of like, well, what would you be able to tolerate?

Really? Like if you were being honest with yourself, because the fact that the relationship that

is presented to us is rooted in love, right? That it's like the framing is the reason it is so hard

is because I look at him and I recognize the person who I love. And he is able to do these things for

me that stem from care and preservation and a nurturing spirit inside of this partnership. But we

can't break through beyond that. So the idea that the thing that keeps you together, your affection and

your desire to help each other would be the thing that made it impossible for you, even though you

still love that person to actually accept. And like it would, that it would be really hard. Yeah.

Is a, even inside of the fiction and unreliability of the film feels like a just a true note about

interrogating like what people are, what people want to believe that they're capable of and then

what it looks like to actually try to navigate something that is, is, um, really challenging. So I

love that aspect of it too. Um, swear to me. Uh, this movie is rated R, but still if you can add an

end, so like unlike a lot of the other ones, it's not at a loss for swear words, but we've been

enjoying adding swear words to other cultural movies. So I just thought we would do it here as well.

So if you can add an extra F bomb or any other swear, where would you put it? Yeah, this was hard

because there are so many, um, there are so many fuck utterances in this film until like any scene

that I thought it was supposed to be a good candidate. Someone said, yeah, inside of that very scene,

but even so I will go with Bert in the like, oh, I've been found out with my multiple hotel rooms.

I, he does actually say I fucked up in that scene, but later a few lines later when they're

leaving the room Leonard always get a fucking receipt. Yeah. That would have been my nominee. Oh,

yeah, I'm gonna write that down. Yeah, always get a fucking receipt. And then he doesn't, um,

yeah, I think Mark Mark, uh, Boone, Jr. is really good as Bert. Um, I think

you talk about book and lines or book and polaroids. I think

where the fuck was I? Yeah, uh, as like a final line of this movie. I don't know, I'm actually

have two minds about it because like, it's a line that I wouldn't mind a little pepperon, but also like,

mm-hmm. Now where, where was I is so, um, innocent and just sort of like, now we're like so casual.

Now where was I? Yes. Because like all the agitation of the previous minutes are gone. Right.

So I kind of, yeah, there's like a return to a kind of like,

nasal state, nagging my own answer, but that was my best answer that I came up with. I like it.

Amateur seek the sun, get eaten, power stays in the shadows, stealth MVP of this movie that

not enough people talk about. I thought this was hard because I think so many aspects of this film

are widely celebrated. It's so, it's like what, you know, what haven't we explored? Yeah,

and this is the type of category where we'd normally be like the editing, but it's like, you know,

we're talking Oscar now. I'm here, right? And you can't talk about the film without talking about

the editing, things like that. Um, I don't think it would be a good faith argument to pretend that

people don't talk about the polaroids as an iconic aspect of this film, but I will, my pick will be

inside of that specifically just the image choice in each photo, like the actual facial expression

or positioning, you know, the big, broad smile on Lenny's face and the blood on his body. And we're

like, what's what has been captured here exactly? Or the fact that the Natalie Polaroid is opaque and

obscured and like kind of like dappled and sun to the point where it's almost in shadow, you know,

the mugging that Teddy is doing. So just like the specific, because in the flow of the film,

you know, Leonard is just like, hey, you know, and sometimes he's like, like, Teddy's like,

well, let me move over here. And there's more of a kind of active pose. And sometimes he just takes

a picture of Natalie before she even realizes what's happening, but then what the film is communicating

through the actual image that has been captured of each of those people. I really like. And then

especially because you know, you get the like, oh, you got to burn it, you get the kind of crumpled,

but you see like, oh, there's like a part of a body that you can still identify. And what are we,

what mystery are we going to unravel? Next. So like, I wanted to just say like Joey Pants because I

think he's the best, but I don't think that would be stealth necessarily. No, no, no. My answer

is twofold. The bleached job on Guy Pierce is doing a lot of work. I have a lot of questions about

it though, because it's not even like trying to be realistically blonde. It just looks like a bleached

job. So how often does he have a tattoo somewhere that's like, remember to bleach your roots? Like

but he has that blonde hair in the flashbacks as well. So he was always bleaching his hair.

Yeah, neatly, neatly gilded over. But like, again, that felt very like

Brad Pitt, Jason or something like that. But yeah, the bleached job on on Lenny is doing a lot of

good work. Just to put us in this sort of like dirt bag late 90s early,

hot sort of noir era. But also my honest answer is whatever pen he's using to write on the polaroid,

that is inky enough that it like looks nice, but does not smudge. It never smudges. It's not a ballpoint.

It's a felt tip, but it doesn't smudge on the polaroid. It's important. What is what miracle pen is

this? That's a great question. And where's the note that reminds him exactly which pen type that

he likes best? I'm sure he's got one somewhere. Yeah, no question. That's great. I love all of the

penmanship aspects. Like the fact that we learned he's got to learn to trust your own hand writing,

right? And then the way that like he writes, he uses cursofy uses, you know, the

tricer. Yeah. So it's a convert when he sees it later, he'll know it across it out that it's not

legit. Yeah, that stuff is all. That's great. All right. You're waiting on a train, a train that

will take you far away. Best dead wife moment. Crout and field. Oh my god. Okay, I have a pick

and then a couple runners up after you give your pick. It's completely wild. This is astonishing stuff.

I will put a pen in it and come back to it when we finish the whole rewatch. But I think there's

a chance that this stands the test of time as the ultimate winner of this category at the very end.

Because it is just a quote about how cool it is to have a dead wife. And I would love to read it to you now.

Teddy laying into Lenny. Man, you could just say, oh, he's like, you're, you're

whiny. You gotta always keep seeking. And here's what he says. Oh, you do his moon. I'm the one

that has to live with what you've done. I'm the one that put it all together. You, you wander around,

you're playing detective. Your live in a dream, kid, a dead wife to find for a sense of purpose

to your life, a romantic quest that you wouldn't end even if I wasn't in the picture. It character

in this movie. Joey pants his daddy says out loud in a Christopher Nolan film. You live in the

dream and you got a dead wife. So sick to have a dead wife. Well, look at all that purpose.

Such pining. Your wife's dining. You get to pine such quest.

For your dead wife. Goals. Why? I mean, oh, my God.

Oh, extraordinary. So just incredible.

So I'm going to bleed this into my next category because actually, okay, I think Georgia Fox,

who plays the aforementioned dead wife, is the person I would recast in this movie.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a good pick. I think it's a tough, you know, unlike

Marion Cotier in Inception. She doesn't even like, she has like one scene where she gets lines.

You know what I mean? It's just like, so it's just a lot of like, you know, and Georgia Fox was

in CSI at this moment, you know, like she was, she was an identifiable TV faced a West Wing CSI

face that you could put in this movie. I just don't think she conveys dead wife to pine for

in her performance here. She's just in back. She's beautiful. But like, I don't feel like

in the sort of romantic, I've seen many a dead wife,

oh, yeah, paraded through the Nolan filmography. And this is, I think maybe one of the most

lackluster for you, the dead wife doesn't rate. She just doesn't do it for me. I, you know,

maybe he should have said when Joey, when Joey Pants is like a dead wife to pine for, he's like,

yeah, but I mean, the less of dead wife, honestly, and the less of dead wives. Georgia Fox is a great

live woman in certain things, but I don't think she's, she's crushing it in the dead wife.

Dead wife and exists in flashbacks only. Honestly, incredible take. Also, I don't understand

why a woman with her hair texture would brush her hair with a, with a bore bristle round brush.

That's just her hair brush, a bore bristle round brush. Nobody was on set to tell the Nolan's.

This is not the, the brush that she would use. Really, like, when that sex worker was like,

you know, and he's like, don't use it. She's like, she's like, listen, I don't want to.

You know what this would do to my crudchy blonde curls? Bad things. Yeah.

More enthusiastic asking if she should wear the bra, then ultimately, like,

really pushing to keep using the brush.

Just put it around the room. So, you know, they were like, your things.

I'm gonna, I guess, so, you know, late, late breaking, I think I am going to give it to asking a

prostitute to stir your dead wife's items around the room. It's a choice. She just

placed the clock and the book and the brush somewhere, not to mention, flung the bra.

Somewhere. Yeah. Teddy bear. Yeah.

Not only if I ever die, and you need to collect like a few of my positions to remember me by,

please let it not be a teddy bear. What should it be?

There's so many options. Farahmead. Yeah. Well, no, the means gone. But like, definitely some books,

for sure. Yeah. For sure. There's like plenty of items in my house.

The God and his wife. But I would, yeah, not that book necessarily. But I would say not, I mean,

I do have a teddy bear that I've owned since I was a child, but like exists in like a chest that I

have with like blankets that I had as a child, but it's not like a thing that I cradle and own

and, and cherish. It's just like a relic of my childhood. I don't think this woman, you know,

despite her questionable hair brushing technique, I don't think she was like

cradling that teddy bear around. I'm very confused. Well, it is, you know, he does kind of say

when he's burning things. How much are you? Yeah. How many times have I done this?

He's breaking the bottle of the bear around. So he might be like, we're deep into the possessions.

Though the fact that the book, this prized and sacred thing is there. It's so interesting reread,

honestly. But also how many cars is he just abandoned with more of her stuff in it? You know what I mean?

Like question. Was there other stuff in the truck? These tracks are fresh.

Like bullets on the seat. I don't know. How many of my dead ones? Does he still have that house?

You know, I wondered about that as well. Does he go back and pilfer more items? Some nice natural

light in there. I thought lovely, you know, the book scene is, you know, we already talked about it,

but that was one of my runners up just because it is like the parallel to Leonard's own experience

when you're like, well, what how much of this experience reading this book is about what you remember

right, teen versus what it feels like to navigate it. It's again, not subtle, but it's good.

I like as another runner up when Natalie tells Leonard to just like close your eyes and really remember

like really remember and we're flashing and everything we see and he's saying these like beautiful

things you can just feel the details the bits and pieces you never bothered to put into words.

You put these together and you get the feel of a person enough to know how much you miss them.

That's a very moving moment of the film, but I love that everything we see.

Now you could turn this the other way and say interesting that that dead wife never left

the house. We never really got to see any other experience. She loved that kitchen. She loved it

until Gays out the window of her kitchen that she was in prison and then stayed at the table.

Maybe she had one book because she never got to go to the bookstore.

Floral dress is possible. But I do like that every moment we see is like routine that that's the

kind of thing he's remembering, not like a honeymoon or a grand experience, just like what it was

like to be in a home that you shared with this person. I do think it's interesting I've seen many

side by side on the old internet of like there are pretty much near identical shots of Mal in

Inception and Georgia Fox's character in this in this movie. Also true to form. Is this right?

Oh no Catherine she has a name Catherine. That's true. Mrs. Jakes does not have a name.

She's fictional. But she's just Sammy's wife. Listen, Gwen was named in the Seven Kingdoms.

Don't be greedy. But don't be greedy. Catherine Shelby just watered around this kitchen where she is

and her little loop of the kitchen in the bedroom and the kitchen in the bedroom and the bathroom

in the middle of the night. That's her. But yeah, there are shots like her lying sideways in the bed,

her sitting at the kitchen table. There are identical shots of Mary and Coteyard in Inception.

And I hope that was intentional. But it's also possible that when Christopher Nolan's like,

what does a wife do? And he's like laying a bed, sitting at a table or if it's his own wife,

ants are all my emails and my phone calls for me. I don't know. What does a wife do?

I love Nolan movies. They're the best. Oh man. He's the hair goth and deserves one. It needs

right now. I already answered this one. But who was we're going to believe in his cast in this movie?

I'm going to go with your pick. I think that's your case is strong and I think that's the right answer.

Let me toss out a kind of hot take contender here though. Okay. I don't even think I agree with this.

I don't agree with that as I suggested, but I want to float it for a reason. Okay, we both love big

Steve. Just had a when we were doing basic instinct, there was a fascinating like that guy for

Tobalowski and it's like, then somebody's going to say he's like the ultimate. I think he is.

That guy, like he's the ultimate. I tried to argue that on the sneakers we were watchful. That's right.

That's I mentioned. We're not going to show you Pantilly on that. Yeah. And then this keeps us

with none of us can break through. But I'm with you Steven. I love it. I love it. Every time he shows up,

I'm thrilled. He's great. So I do not want to recast him because I think he's always wonderful.

And I really agree with what you said earlier that that like expression when he is conveying with his

eyes and the wideness and the face is so effective at communicating what the tsunami character

supposed to communicate to us. So I asked this for one reason and one reason only and we can just

discard it right away if we don't play. Is there any logic to recasting him with an actor who

looks who's a different actor, but looks more like Guy Pierce to make the like wait are are Lenny

and Sammy the same character thing. Brad Pitt. Thomas Jane. Tommy Jane. Yeah. If I were to put Thomas

Jane in this movie, I would put him in the column Keith Renny. Okay. Oh yeah. He'd be a good

dog. I don't think I I think Calon Keith Renny is really good and battle star obviously as you

already shouted him out. I don't think he's great in this movie. No. I also like two and a half minutes.

I think Larry Holden who plays Jimmy is also not that great. I think there are some people down the

cast list and by down the cast list, I mean number six and seven because it's a very short

cast list, but like we're saving money. We're doing our best, but I feel like, you know,

we're we to make this now that would be Killian Murphy. It would be yeah. And you know that to be true.

It's definitely true. Jimmy, he wore that suit well. I will say he wore that suit well.

I just think that he should have been filthy by the way. He was like dragged across the

flourishing. He probably being choked at death. He probably should have shot his hand.

This is what our does. Why does he take off his clothing and put on Jimmy's clothing?

I don't I don't know. This is like how many times has he done so much? Yeah. Is this the like was

the plaid shirt the previous Jimmy, you know, like the previous John G's plaid shirt? You know,

like is this a part of his ritualist detailing? I think that is a really reasonable deduction

because again, who knows how any how accurate if at all any of the flashbacks that we've seen are,

but like you're not getting that like I'm wearing like plaid and the best. He's a man man kind of

exactly. But again, is any of it. So this is trophy is like he's like taking their suit in the

car. He's not taking their literal skin, but like the skin of the life that they lead. I mean,

it's great for the movie because he shows up to the bar in Jimmy's suit in his car. It's

it's great. You know, you can't come in here like looking like that. Like all of that stuff is

really good. Yeah. But like why does he do that? I mean, bizarre thing to do. Perhaps he never

wrote himself a note saying like do your laundry and buy new clothes. He's like this is so you know,

so this thing that I've done shower. Yeah. So this thing that I have like dragged through the dirt

and it's possibly got some blood stains on it. I remember this is what I mean, it looks great on him.

It does. It looks really good. Yeah. Okay. Tobo, you're gonna re-cast Tobo. No, I can't

break myself to say it with with with as shea Serrano would say with my chest. Yeah. Yeah.

Say it with my chest. You don't you don't really want to work it out. You want to be fooled. Most

satisfying twist. I mean, it's the ending. Yeah. Same as it can get. Right. So let's use this as a

quiz. Since it's so obvious and we agree and there are fun little twists and reveals along the

way. I almost like when I took several categories that I was like, should I take the twist category

out of the meadow the movie? There are a lot of great. There are many twists. Yeah. Like everything

with Natalie, like his really satisfying. Yeah. Teddy. Multiple motelers. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So

but let's just since we agree it's the ending and it's specifically like Leonard's choice about

what he is going to tell himself. Right. You think I just want another puzzle to solve another

John G to look for. You're a John G. So you can be my John G. Do I lie to myself to be happy in your

case? Teddy. Yes. I will. Chills. Where are you on how much of what Teddy tells Lenny is true?

What was the good moment to talk about that for a second? Yeah. That's a great great prompt.

So Nolan has said yeah that definitely something happened in the bathroom. Like that's not

invented. So definitely something happened in the bathroom. Whether or not the insulin thing

happened is not something that he has confirmed one way or another. Right. I think it's a better story

if it is true. I agree. I agree. If Leonard killed his wife because I think the core of his quest

to avenge the person who killed his wife and he is the person who killed his wife. And you never

reach the end. Or yeah. And like you're so consumed with because in theory, well of course because

not in theory she survives the attack. So it's not like immediate like as soon as he lost his

ability to make memories, he wasn't immediately on this vengeance quest. There was a moment in his

life when he was just like pigeon or thigh and giving your injections or whatever. So like he was

living a more sedate post accident life. Yeah. And then he is so traumatized not just by what

happened in the bathroom, but by his... I mean did he kill her? Could you say that directly? But like

in his complicit complicity in that that he's then driven on this unsolvable quest to find the person

when he's the person who did it, you know. Harrowing to confront. Henro Stairs. That's right.

Yes. Exactly. I am in the same place. So my feeling on it is like similar to Cobb being like

I did this to her, you know. Joey Pants. Like you couldn't have a more perfect person in that scene

because he is... And I'm blanking on where Nolan said this, but I know he I'm paraphrasing, but he has

said like, oh it's really fascinating to the Nolan's that like many people who see this movie

don't want to believe. Tell me because they've seen... Classic. Honestly that's classic fight club

like behavior. And also like having a post of a scar face on your wall. Honestly. Yes. And also like

breaking loving breaking bad. This I'd like walled what a guy. Redemption is possible. Is there an

apple log? Is there a stinger? Haven't given up yet. I'm not sure. But the idea that you've basically

been conditioned all movie through Leonard, don't believe his lies. And then you get maybe the truth

that you're like primed to believe it is a lie and you're rooted in Leonard's experience and point

of view such that there is a point of view that you can be rooted in. But like, Lenny what a guy.

I you know, Joey Pants is a smart ass and he's a this is part of his his undying charm like

he's like a little bit of a demon and all of these scenes and he's so funny and witty and sharp and

like, you know, the acid that is like drenched over every word he says. But he's played a lot of bad

guys over the years. And so you're not always like Joey Pants is definitely playing a good guy. And so

especially because you have this crooked. Exactly. You have all of these reasons even in this scene,

this moment of reveal to say, well, you have your own agenda. You have a reason that was just

presented clearly to deceive Leonard to lead him to a place that suits you. You also know he won't

remember this. So there's all of that in the brew. And yet, despite that, my feeling on it. And I

love that and this is like, you know, we've had so many Nolan movies that have a version of this.

Like you can just keep debating it forever. And that's part of what's fun and interesting about it

that there's like an invitation to the viewer to say, well, what do you think about this? I'm not

going to tell you definitively. Maybe it'll be pretty clear, but it's not definitive. And

I feel that what he that what Teddy says about like you killed the sky a year ago. And I thought

it would pull you out of this. I love that line delivery when he's like, I thought so too. You

know what I mean? There's just like something kind of there's emotion there. Yeah. Like to me,

that feels definitively true. I agree. The Sammy Lenny one is a little bit more.

How do I feel about this? But I also land where you land because I think it's a more interesting story.

If that's the case and the fact that like ultimately the the key in that moment is that Leonard

does not know. And I think it's because he refuses to accept it. That makes it feel all the more true.

I agree. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. All right. It's not who I it's not who I am underneath.

But what I do that defines me. No, it is not known for a sexual content. But let's go ahead and try

to excavate the horniest moment of this film. I think there's a clear answer here. Tell me.

And maybe this is reveal something about me. I believe it is Natalie Spitting in the Bear.

The way that Carrie and Moss does that. What? I think it's extremely horny. Oh my god. I love this

incredible. Yeah. There's just something. The way that she spits spitting on something else. She's known.

She knows her way around a spit. It's what I think.

I don't know. No, no. It's on this. Do they?

They fuck is that your interpretation? So I don't think so. I don't think so either.

But there are horny moments around. This is obviously like kind of a fraught aspect.

What is this where like Leonard could not? What sex lay for like because the timing is inconsistent

for when his memory resets in that stretch in particular. And so could his memory reset

mid-act? Yeah. And I said he's like, why he's probably not engaging, right? Because he wouldn't

remember like how he started. Yeah. So that's tough. The spitting is just an iconic choice. I have

really no, no, it's on that. That's incredible. I think she's incredible. I think she's

for my sort of like late 90s and early, it's sort of aesthetic moment or whatever. I think she's

hotter in this even than she is in the matrix. I think she's so hot in this. One A and one B. I

think she's so hot. This would be like the smudge eyeliner just like. It looks great. I think she

and like how like her disdain the way that she manipulates him. But then the way that she is

actually like has some tenderness for him as well. It's just like femme fatalities.

She is great. Really. She says freaky tattoos. Yeah. Lovely. I will throw out another

Natalie nominee when they wake up together and then he's getting dressed and leaving.

The way she kisses him as they part and says I think he will like remember me like I'm

going to give me a reason. And then he doesn't. Oh, just pretty sad. But for like point five seconds,

I was pretty hot. There's also a shot of her. You know, after he's told the story about, you know,

the warmth, the warmth of the bed, they just got up. And she's sort of doing the same. Yeah.

Probably, you know, thinking about Jimmy. Yes. Yes. Her eyes. I mean, like her eyes are so beautiful.

They both have beautiful, beautiful, like blue, green eyes. And like when they're sitting across

from each other at the diner, it's just sort of like flash on flash, like gorgeousness. But there's

a shot of her in the bed in the dark and her eyes are just kind of like flashing in the darkness.

And I just think that she is wonderful in this movie. And similar to Guy Pierce, I think Karen

Moss is forever turnity in the matrix. So that is like something that has cemented her career forever.

Yes. But I think she should have been so much bigger than she was. If only the acolyte had taken off.

Yeah, that wouldn't have helped her. So nobody picked the dive and Lenny naked,

showrified, interesting. Well, you could pick that if you want to. There's my runner up. Okay,

that's pretty good. Yeah. And ideas like a virus resilient, highly contagious. The line that

hits the hardest 25 years later is can't remember to forget you disqualify because it's one of the

names of our category or isn't allowed. You can use it. I think that's pretty good for a reason.

It's it's memorable for a reason. Probably tried this before. I think mine is the truckloads

of your stuff. Can't remember to forget you. Yeah, that one's really good. If we can't make

memories, we can't heal his mind. So it's like they're very similar of the same pain. I think I

can't remember to forget you. I think whoever wrote that line, whether it was Christopher himself,

whether Jonah was involved, whether Emma tossed it out from the other room when she was stuck in the

kitchen or whatever. I don't know. But like Emma Nolan is very of accomplished, obviously. That was

just a joke about poor Catherine Shelby being stuck in the kitchen. Emma Nolan's not stuck in the

kitchen, but for that line, let's give it to Chris. I love him. He's great. I hope that he

bought himself something shiny that day. It's a great line. I hope he felt great writing it.

Really great. I have a few runners up that are a little less maybe like, oh, people are still

quoting it years later, but that I find very impactful. Early in the film, Teddy gun to his face,

Lenny poised to shoot him. You don't know who you are. I'm Leonard Shelby. I'm from San Francisco.

That's who you were. That's not what you've become. I just love that exchange. Especially because we

see it in the process of the film that earlier, he has said versions of that, but the way he says it

there, where is that house in San Francisco? I don't. Great question. I don't think so. Great question.

Leonard and Natalie at the cafe. I knew what he says. He's from San Francisco, what he really means,

he's from Marin or possibly some like Peabmont. But I'll think he's from San Francisco. So I'm

Northern California geography from you here. They're in a little like a dillic, little cottage

suburbia home that doesn't exist in San Francisco proper from just outside of San Francisco.

Leonard and Natalie at the cafe, this is when she says, you're not even going to remember your

revenge if you get it. This is when he says, the world doesn't just disappear when you close

your eyes. Does it like which obviously comes back into play at the end. So that's a great line

and a great idea and a very interesting and rich idea. Boy, on the like beautiful, you know,

Joey Pants is bringing a lot of levity and a lot of menace, but then he has these like

quiet, gentle little moments that just will in the middle of a scene like knock you over.

And one of my favorite examples of that in this film with his performances portrayals,

Teddy is when Lenny and Teddy are having lunch and Teddy's just like trying to remind Lenny like you,

you actually are alive. Like you're not gone. And Lenny says he destroyed my ability to live and

then Teddy reaches over and he just like puts his hand on the to feel the pulse like you're

living. It's just it's perfect. And the way he says it is just so memorable to me.

What is it for revenge? Yes, only for revenge. Only for revenge. And then Lenny,

I mean, lastly, Teddy, when I do the two next time you come in here, like I'm so tired and I feel

like I'm dying and I'll just gently put my hand on your throat and say you're living and you're

living and I'll say only for this podcast. And then we'll see what happens one hour and 53

minutes later. Teddy, when he's cornered by Lenny at the Jimmy G hit, so you lie to yourself to be

happy. There's nothing wrong with that. We all do it, which is just so, so, so true. So Teddy,

just like bringing the, bringing the gospel there. That takes me to the next category. You think

darkness is your ally, but you merely adopted the dog. I was born and in molded by it. All right,

so most devastating moment. I think it's Lenny lying to himself. Yeah. You know, like the revelation

that he perhaps had a hand in killing his wife, all these other things for sure, but like that he

knowingly, yeah, creates a puzzle for himself to solve. I'll do it. You know, you'll be my dongy,

right? Very tough. We're just like thinking about him like redacting the police files.

Yeah, just like pulling out the 12 pages and yeah, just to create a narrative that

can work for his broken brain is really tough. That's a great pick. I am, I'm going with,

let's bring the dead wife back for another minute here. When Teddy is in bed with Natalie and

they're talking about her, which was seen I've already mentioned, but I just find this is like

the performance from both of them and the scene is so good. I don't even know how long she's been

gone. This is what he says. And like, it just really bulls you over like to think about what would

that be like to not even know the period of loss that has come to define every aspect of your

existence. We've already talked about the scene a number of times because this is what builds toward.

I lie here not knowing how long I've been alone. So how can I heal? How am I supposed to heal if I

can't feel time? So it's like, it's a good kind of mission statement for so many of the things

that this movie, but also just like Nolan more broadly is interested in exploring, you know,

loss and grief and pain and memory and time and healing and wounds and how these things are all

entwined. And this like examination of how, you know, if you're not able to feel that time and to

heal because you understand the time is passing. And like emotionally and intellectually,

when you lose someone, you're like, I will never this will never stop hurting as much as it does

right now. But like, you know, the nature of just moving through the world is that one day you

realize, like, it's been a little longer than it was yesterday since I thought about this, right?

And that like Lenny can't have that. And you form new attachments and new connections,

which he can't do. Yes, exactly. Yes. Because there's the like the really intense, like, you know,

can you even get like, can you even get it free? Like, can you feel fear? You know, can you get scared?

But then right, what are the other things that he's not able to feel? You know, and how does that

all then form the kind of like smoothie of his experience every day? It's just,

oh man, how can I, how am I supposed to heal if I can't feel time? I just again, if you can find

season one of Westworld, I really recommend you watch it. It's just that is like a thesis of that show.

Okay. Um, for me, I think this is the end of a beautiful friendship actor who never returned to

the Nolanverse, but should have you guys peers here? Yeah. I was like, hey, you know, it's pretty weird

that Guy Pierce has never been in another Nolan movie. What's up with that? And there's a vanity

fair article from very recently from 2024, the brutalist Ron. I would like to read you this

passage. Hit me. And who knows, right? This is this is Guy Pierce account his accounting of it. But

I was like, what? Have you been in touch with Christopher Nolan over the years? Not really,

but he spoke to me about roles a few times over the years, the first Batman and the prestige.

But there was an executive at Warner Brothers who quite openly said to my agent, I don't get Guy

Pierce. I'm never going to get by Guy Pierce. I'm never going to employ Guy Pierce. So in a way,

that's good to know. I mean, fair enough, there's some actors I don't get, but it meant I could never

work with Chris. Bracket, Warner Brothers had not responded to a request for comment. And then

the follow question, we wait, hold on. So an executive Warner Brothers just had a no-guy Pierce

policy. Did you do something to offend him? I think he just didn't believe in me as an actor.

So there were times when Nolan was like, hey, my old buddy Guy would be great. And the exec said,

no guy? Yes, they flew me to London to discuss the Liam Neeson role for Batman.

And I think it was decided on my flight that I wasn't going to be in the movie. So I got there.

And Chris is like, hey, you want to see the bad boom building? You're dinner.

Decent consolation prize, honestly. Listen, Nolan's done with Warner Brothers now. So now my time has come.

I've either had to be some explanation for why he was never in another Nolan movie,

but like, that's a fucking bummer. That's a hot bummer. Interesting.

But he's not in the Odyssey that we know of.

I'm going to be great if Guy Pierce just shows up somewhere in the Odyssey.

Rowan and Boat. Yeah, we're on to it.

Get him in there. That's really like we're not at Warner Brothers anymore. So it's time to work

together. Okay. Interesting. Interesting. Maybe we need to maybe this needs to be like

the Killian Murphy story where it's just like, Guy is the lead of his next movie and Guy wins his

Oscar for it. He would have been mad if he had won for the brutalist. He's very, very good

of the brutalist and he was nominated. I wouldn't have been mad about that. But yeah, okay.

Yeah. Guy Pierce is probably my answer, but I mean, Joey Pants also. Yeah.

Or Carrie and Moss. Why not? Mark Boon, Jr. and Tom Lennon who are in this movie are both

also in other or Harriet Sandsome Harris. Like, honestly, like, yeah, there's a lot of options

in this movie. Is it too late to get Joey Pants in the Odyssey? Oh, he's in the Odyssey.

You didn't know this. He plays the head siren. You can do it. There's nothing he can't do.

There's nothing Joey Pants can't do. It's the Teddy mustache. It's the Teddy mustache,

but like, you know, he's just warbling like a dream. It's great. Wouldn't you throw yourself

over board for Joey Pants without hesitation? I know. I agree. Okay. So I'm then just want to watch

the world burn the most Nolan thing about this movie. Tell me just all of it. Memory,

time. Memory. Yeah. The non-linear structure. I think like we talked about at the top of the pod.

But it's eligibility inside of that. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. All of it. A category that I snipped out that

we often do is this idea of like the great man. Yes. And I just don't think that concept really

exists in this movie. Too much dead wife. Yeah. To make room for the great man. Yeah. We had to

turn down a little bit of the dead wife to make room for the great man. The recalibration is coming.

Like 30 seconds for dead wife and then all great man.

I had to balance it across time. I don't know. Oppenheimer is a lot of room for dead girlfriend.

That's true. That's true. That's true. All right. So does in session.

All right. Our greatest accomplishments cannot be behind us. What aspect of Nolan's upcoming

the Odyssey? Are you thinking about slash most hype for this month? Trials? I think you know

the idea of like Trials on the road to a goal. I love it. You and I have different interpretations.

This category every time, which is like you're like, how does this movie end? You're like,

I'm out of the box.

Here's my answer. Tom Holland is seeing the Odyssey. He says this is a masterpiece.

I mean, he says that there are sequences that he he was insisted had to BCGI and Nolan's like,

nope. Great stuff. That's a practical effects buddy. That's a lot of planning and a lot of money

in the Adriatic Sea. So you know what? Here we go. We're going to do it. Anything else you want to say?

Okay. So Trials, you were saying. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Great. I can't believe I've had a season

three months. I'm hyped. Okay. Which Nolan movies should we do, Dex? Let's see. So we have

we have the Dark Front Knight. Dark Knight? Yeah. I'm just classic Austin. I've not done this yet.

Following Insomnia, tenant Oppenheimer.

Hobbes and Dragons at gmail.com. I've used some thoughts and feelings.

Actually, I have an idea, but I don't want to say it yet. I think we're thinking the same thing.

Okay. Yeah. Great. If the scheduling works. Yes. I think that should be next.

Okay. Great. All right.

I'm like, what the fuck are we talking about? But we know. We know. We're locked in.

All right. Anything else you want to say? I'm literally going to text you that yesterday

when you mentioned. Yes. Exactly. It was on my mind, honestly, when I said it to you.

Okay. It's fine. Don't worry. This all stays in.

Who should we think today? Oh, man. Let's see.

Carlisier Bogha. Scott Lee.

Scott Lee. Jacob is here with us again.

The whole crew. Everyone here at the Pesahar.

Our Junah, Jemmian Denneron. Yeah, we saw Jack Wilson earlier.

Yeah. I said hi to Jack. Thank you to the whole crew.

What a wonderful time here at Sikamore. We'll be back with the Daredevil check-in.

What percentage of that podcast am I allowed to dedicate to Dex?

As much as you want. Great. We're back for Dex check-in.

But you do have to make a sunny side up egg for a cat at some point on the regular.

Great. My cat, I don't know that I want to give my cat an egg. I feel like she was just

vomit. No. That's, that she would like it.

Okay. I will make an egg for my cat and I will film it. Great.

For you. Content. And the Instagram perhaps.

I will not, however, be having a banana milk shake.

It's funny. Adam and I had a pretty long discussion.

It's, I think that's just delicious. One flaw. I would say.

I would say. I would say. I would say.

I like a banana pudding. I like a banana ice cream. Banana cream pie.

No. No. Banana and cream pairs wonderful together.

No, no, no, no. Banana and a smoothie. You can fix them.

Well, sure. That's a whole different thing.

But like, where's banana? Okay, maybe I'm,

maybe I'm stepping in the Daredevil pod, but where's banana rank on like,

if you had all the flavors to choose from in your milkshake. Sure.

It wouldn't be my first choice. Is it above strawberry?

It's probably delicious. No, certainly not. I love the strawberry milkshake.

So like the Neapolitan flavor is chocolate vanilla strawberry are going above.

Is it above an Oreo milkshake?

Depends on the mood. And it depends on the establishment. Are they known for their banana milkshakes?

I think bananas just, like, I would take a coffee milkshake over it.

I love coffee's like my, no one favorite. I do like coffee ice cream.

Like, yeah, that's my number one favorite.

Oh, I would take, I would take like a mint ship milkshake over banana.

Like banana is just like, so actually, I think if they said we only have banana,

I would say I will not be having a milkshake.

Yeah.

Well, I would say, give me plain vanilla. They would say we don't have it.

I said that's impossible because you have to start with vanilla and add the banana to it.

So there's no way you don't have vanilla milkshake and they would just be like,

sorry, and I would go, what if they were using a banana ice cream?

Disgusting. Delicious. Absolutely.

Well, there's a banana ice cream that I love.

You have to order it from Kentucky, but I will be doing that so that you can taste it.

From cranking the boom.

The gong-belly.

Stay in the state of Kentucky.

Delicious.

What is that?

I would rather we go to Kentucky than you fly a milkshake from Kentucky.

It arrives. It's not a milkshake. It's a pint of ice cream to prove to you that you can make

the banana ice cream from the Pithers chocolate and I'd say it's wonderful.

Well, we'll be back.

Carlos, you can just clip all of that and put it in the tarot and I'll put it in the tarot.

Thank you to everyone. Thank you to you, Mallory.

We will be continuing with Nolan, Hobbits, and Dragons at jima.com.

If you have strong thoughts about Wich Nolan movie about milkshakes banana or otherwise,

or about Daredevil feeding eggs to cats, anything else, we will look forward to that.

We'll see you soon. Bye.