The Godfather Part II Review [Archive]

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What kind of a show are you guys putting on here today?

We're not interested in art. No. Well look we're going to do this thing. We're going to have a conversation.

Hey FilmSpotters, Friday we have our top five Robert Dubal scenes coming a bit of overlap.

They're Josh in terms of some of the characters one scene in common but only one scene in common.

Very good I think thorough list and with Dubal on our minds we thought why not dip into the archive and pick out a review of one of his most famous roles.

Certainly one of his most famous and most critically acclaimed movies and this is one that we haven't actually shared with the film spotting public ever before just with family members.

Yeah a bonus bonus is what this is. I mean we thought of doing this after our sacred Kyle 50th anniversary review of the Godfather.

We just thought how can we talk about the Godfather and then just you know move on and not reckon with the Godfather part two as well.

So we did review part two as a bonus show for FilmSpotting family members not long after that.

And yeah now we're going to share it with everyone. So from February 2022 here is that review of the Godfather part two.

If anything in this life is certain the pistol he's taught us anything.

Is there any killing anyone? Is it worth it?

FilmSpotting bonus content as we discuss the Godfather part two following our recent sacred cow review of the first Godfather from 1972.

And I'm inclined Josh of course because it's the lowest hanging fruit to start with something along the lines of is this movie actually better than Godfather one.

And that inclination stems from a few things one it's just inevitable when you've got two movies of this stature and reputation coming out within two years of each other you got to compare them.

The fact that they have spoiler alert both stood the test of time and are both masterpieces kind of begs the question we also did just watch these movies almost back to back.

So have them very clear in our minds we also have FilmSpotting madness the best of the 1970s coming up where this decision may actually be forced upon us before the final round.

If they advance as we think they very well could it could come down to the Godfather versus the Godfather part two to compete in the madness final and there are also things like the once a decade sight and sound list that come out we did our own kind of riff on it back in 2012 obviously in a few months will get the 2022 version and you can't cheat.

It's not a film spotting top five list where I want to just combine two movies you got to pick the Godfather or the Godfather part two or you know you can put them both in your top 10 I made the decision back in 2012 to go with the Godfather part one after saying all of that I'm going to resist and maybe we'll come around to it I was actually texting with a long time listener friend of the show Brett Maryman over the weekend after rewatching the Godfather part two.

And we were dancing around this question and we have initially different answers to the question but I like where we ended up better or where I should say Brett ended up he said maybe the question is after two movies not which film was better but is Michael Corleone the greatest character in cinema history.

Are you rolling oh my god willing to go that far.

No, I mean throwing that at me immediately no I mean he shakes very and he's grand he has as many layers as you would hope for a cinematic character to have but I'm going to have to do a little more research on that Adam before I give him.

Give him give him that status and yeah as those who following on letterbox know I'm definitely not going to choose a Godfather film in this conversation I pretty much set that aside as soon as this second film started I don't I think doing that doesn't disservice

to both films. And I know there's hypocrisy there. We're going to talk about hypocrisy in this

conversation. I think. And there's hypocrisy in me who is part of a show that is built on lists

and ranking and all that sort of nonsense to refuse to participate here. But I'm just not going

to do it. I just want to talk about other things. So I'm glad you're suggesting a different avenue

to do that. Yeah. Maybe we'll create another Patreon tier. And that tier I will reveal which film I

really think is about. But for now, let's see. Let's go back to your Michael Corleone question.

And wow, what a great character who is given much more depth, much more conflicting.

The audience has many more conflicting responses to him. I would say in part two,

than they do in part one. And so is Michael a more compelling character in part two? Yes, I will

concede that. That is without a doubt in our guible. And how great is Pacino in pulling that off.

I mean, the narrative does it. Of course, this is his story fully his story now. It's not we talked

about how that opening wedding sequence in part one set up. I don't know, 10 potential narratives

for a movie. And Michael's was one of those we know from the opening moments. He's in that seat.

He's in that chair. The blackness is now behind him. And this is going to be his story. And Pacino

to his credit steps up to the plate and just knocks it out of the park. There's a there's a further

stillness here. There's a further control element. There's a dangerousness to Michael Corleone in

this movie that despite all the havoc and murder and death. He instigated in the first film.

He was dangerous there, but there's a further sense of danger to him here that Pacino gives us

in how he holds himself. That connects, I should say, we'll get to the Nero to Denero, but that connects

to the dangerousness that I have always associated more with Denero in his performances. But somehow he

and Pacino despite not sharing a scene together are reverberating on that same sort of electricity.

They capture that same sort of electricity. How about the fact that Michael Corleone smiles,

if I'm correct, just once in this movie. And it's not so much that he smiles, but it's how

quickly it's withdrawn and what replaces it. This is in Havana with Frado. And Frado turns to him,

you know, ridiculous out of place. Doesn't know what he's doing. Frado and asks, how do you say

banana, Dacquery in Spanish, making a fool of himself? Michael chuckles. He can't help but kind of

laugh at his brother a little bit, right? It's instinctive. And he says, you say banana Dacquery,

right? Half an instant later, Frado turns around and that smile, that genuine smile,

just it's like he realizes he made a mistake. He let emotion in. He let emotion into someone he

knows he's going to have to cut out. And immediately we get the killer shark eyes back. So I think

Pacino is, you know, just doing all time work here. I think we also see the birthing of maybe big

Pacino. How about the delivery of not in my home? Like you can see where he's going to go in later

years. But this is, this is just a supreme performance. Yeah, it really is. And I knew that that

question or Brett's question was probably a bit much to start the conversation off certainly without

any warning whatsoever. It's a big thing to tackle as you think about the entire history of cinema

and all of your favorite characters. But I like the question for many reasons. One is that I think

it's a conversation that you can actually have about this character and about this performance.

But also because it gets at what for me was, I suppose I'll say the surprise of the Godfather too.

When we talked about the Godfather, we got into some of the things that maybe we weren't expecting

or we had a certain image in our mind based on previous viewings. And this time we keyed in on

something else. Last time it was just the structure and how sound and how tight it was. Here,

it was the arc of Michael's character and what it builds on from the Godfather part one. And my

sense of the Michael we get in part two based on my past viewings was that it really did pick up

exactly where it left off in the Godfather one. And what I mean is we mostly see,

despite how touching some of those scenes are between him and his father and even early on how

warm and gentle he is with K. Once he joins his father, once he says, I'm with you and those

wheels get set in motion of him becoming the dawn. We see that humanity just sort of vacate Michael

and he is that shark by the end of it. And where this movie starts, that's definitely still the

Michael we see, right? And all of the conversations with the Senator, he's even colder and more ruthless

than anything we saw in the Godfather part one. But over the course of this film, what makes

it again so tragic, I talked about how effective the arc was in part one as well. He says to K,

it's not me, it's my family. And then of course, by the end, not only is he in, he's all the way in

the Godfather part two really does build off of that. But it doesn't just keep Michael as this kind of

villainous character or someone who may have good intentions, but can't stop himself from

taking out all of his enemies and killing people, even if it means it's his brother, we see

the humanity fighting through. And you joked about Big Pichino. But those moments where he actually

lets out his emotion when he says in my house, you know, and he says to one of his heads of security,

I want him alive. We see how angry he is. You know, this is a Michael who we've seen be completely

still and be unaffected no matter how intense a situation is. And in that moment, when his wife and

kids were almost killed along with him, we actually see the emotion that stirs in him. And then when

you get to some of those scenes with his family, with Frado, even though he knows it, that moment

where Frado finally confirms that he did betray him and we see Michael sink, there is a level of

emotion to this performance that is constantly reminding us that despite all the terrible things

he is doing, all of the ways that he is distancing himself from the family, he seems to care so

much about K and his kids, he nevertheless is still a figure who's trying to do the right thing.

He is trying to keep both of his families together and the costs of doing both of those things

make it so that he's going to compromise at least one of them. But he senses that. You see that

in Fichino's performance. You see that in his Michael. The toll it takes on him over the course

of this film. And if it was just him being the, I knew it was you, Frado, and I'm going to whack

my own brother guy, there would be some fun in that. But it wouldn't take on the tragic proportions

that this movie does. And this character wouldn't be in the running for greatest character in

cinema history if it wasn't for the full scope of that arc. Can I offer a less sympathetic viewpoint

on that, which is not to take away from anything regarding the performance and what you've said about

the performance, because I think it all still works for this as well. But I see this less as a man whose

humanity is still trying to claw its way back. Then a man who realizes slowly he's lost his humanity.

And maybe that's semantics. But it's a little different. It's coming at it from a little different

direction. And this connects with that idea of hypocrisy that I was kind of touching on because I

do think that both of these movies, they are not only critical favorites and end up on sight

and soundless. But these are huge popular hits. These are movies people watch together as families

on Thanksgiving, right? And have traditions. And I think that's because we like to think that the

Godfather films are about family above all. That this is really a family story. And even Michael is a

guy who has found himself in this situation. But because he values his family so much, he has to go

to these lengths. I think part two, what stood out to me about it is that it very purposefully

exposes the hypocrisy of that. And it does it very sneakily because we're set up at the beginning

that party that he throws for his son Anthony, I think, right? Anthony's first communion. The

senator comes up and says to him in that tough meeting, I despise your masquerade, you know? And

what does Pacino say? Say, back, we're both part of the same hypocrisy. He's right. But never think

it applies to my family. And that's where I think Michael Corleone and the film diverge. Is that

understanding? Because this whole family thing to me in watching this movie and this relates to

why I see it's Michael coming to the slow awareness of this. The whole family thing is a hypocrisy.

It's a way for Michael to justify his own greed and his own power and retaining that power.

Think about the fact that he puts Tom in charge of buying his son a Christmas present, right?

Think about the fact, let's stick with Anthony here a minute. Consider this exchange with Anthony,

when they're talking about this party, Michael says, did you like your party? Anthony says,

I got lots of presents. Michael says, did you like them? And Anthony says, I don't know the people

who gave them to me. That's not family. That's that party had nothing to do with family. It's about

greed, status, and power. It's about what he thought he was turning away from at the beginning of

the first film, but has completely succumbed to. And I think this is why Fredo is so key.

Fredo is the proof of this. Why would you kill your brother if it's really about family? Sure,

he's the goofball. But that is the ultimate sentence in like, that's the choice. You make the choice.

Do you want your status? Do you want your wealth? Do you want your power? Or do you want your family?

Stop telling me it's about family. When you're going to knock off Fredo. Yeah. And again, I make

you, I want to be clear, I would just want to be clear. I'm not saying the film is hypocritical.

I'm saying the film is exposing Michael's hypocrisy. And also the trajectory of the character to me

is the slow, tragic awareness he comes to that he always claimed to like his family.

And he doesn't not K, not Fredo, not his kids.

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Registered, Trademarks of XCAUS LLC. Yeah, I mean, what you're describing is the reason why we talk

about these films as Shakespearean and as Greek tragedies because that is the tragic irony of

the character that that very contradiction that you're describing and no matter what your best

intentions are or what you claim your best intentions to be your actions actually suggest something

else that said. And I don't think we're really diverging from each other. I am reading it a little

bit more charitably in terms of Michael because I think there is a difference in to user words

succumbing to the greed and power. And there's even a difference in succumbing to something that

you are ostensibly actually the cause of and actually wanting that. In other words, you not being

part of some larger trajectory that you are somewhat powerless to totally avoid. I think that's

that's what we see to some extent in the Godfather part one, right, where he makes a choice

the choices are his to do what he does. But at the same time, what choice does he have? That's how

he sees it. That's how his family even ultimately sees it. He's got to protect his father. He doesn't

have a choice. If that means taking out some bad guys, a cop and a drug dealer, he's going to take

him out because protecting his father is all he really cares about. If it means basically coming

over to the dark side in that moment at the hospital, well, he's going to do it because he's going

to do whatever he has to do to protect his father. I really do think that the hypocrisy you're

describing and everything that makes that amazing like Tahoe sequence at the beginning so incredible

is what supports what I'm arguing, which is that yes, he ultimately is in some ways of

victim to the very thing he is propelling forward. And that is this goal of legitimacy,

this goal at the end of the Godfather one, he says to Kay in five years will be totally legitimate.

I do believe that Michael actually still wants that. I think the Michael we see in the Godfather

too. But why does he want it? Well, I think I think he wants it because I give Michael the credit

as a human being. Maybe this is where we diverge, Josh. I think that Michael Corleone still deep down

wants to be happy with his family that family is the thing he values most, but juggling

the responsibilities of both families as he sees the responsibilities as he sees the burden on him.

That's not something he can actually navigate. But I do believe that he thinks it. I do believe he

cares about, you know, yeah, of course, he's gone doing business. This is the point. And that means

that Tom Hagen is going to buy his son a gift. But that is a media doesn't care about his son.

I mean, that doesn't mean that it's what you do. I think not what you say. I mean, that's that's

the proof is on the screen. And I just but is the burden of all those other things. The weight on

him to take care of the family business such we can have a little bit of a little bit of sympathy

for someone who I'm not saying necessarily you need to feel sympathetically about. He does things

that make him a monster. But that contradiction that hypocrisy are what really define this character

and make him such a fascinating one. And I just want to go back and clarify where I was going with

the Lake Tahoe sequence. He says we're going to be legitimate. And with that legitimacy comes this

complete sort of refutation of your family heritage. We go from the Italian wedding at the beginning

of the Godfather one to this completely impersonal nobody knows each other senators all these people

they're just completely for appearances. The food being served the food being served they can't

play Italian news music. They play pop goes the weasel. They defy all that you've got that senator

actually saying. And I love that it's deliberate. I love that the movie makes it clear that his

mispronunciation is deliberate. He says Vito. He says Vito Corleon. And later we hear him say

Corleone perfectly fine. It is a reflection of his distaste for the family that even when he's

putting on heirs and he's acting like he's happy to be there. He's still going to get a little

dig in on them. But it goes back to what I was saying during the Godfather one discussion and

kind of tapping into sort of the 70s sensibility and sense of alienation if you will in this

Vietnam era where Michael says decay. You know who's who's naive who's being naive the the US

government really politicians are no different than the Corleone family. Well we really see how true

that is when we see the cost of that attempt at legitimacy. It actually is even more corrupt. The

family only goes into a darker place and a more sinister place in this world where now they're

actually closer to accomplishing the thing they always wanted the thing immigrants long for which

is actually being assimilated into culture the more they get assimilated into this culture the

worst against. Well and along those lines how about the recurring use of the Statue of Liberty in

the imagery we talked about that with the first film here that great image of a very young

veto on the ship approaching I think he's on the ship at this point but he's looking out a window

sees the statue of Liberty which is beautifully reflected in that window so we get can I just add

to this real quick Josh I'm sorry because I think the moment you're talking about what's even

better about it he's not on the ship yet. The moment you're referring to is the reflection

he's actually in that he's in that isolation cell. Yeah that could be Ellis Island. So it's

that yeah that isolation cell and that dichotomy of the land of freedom and opportunity. There it is

and it's right there you can almost touch it yeah he's stuck behind the barrier. Yeah it's a great

image and we see the Statue of Liberty again in a much more throwaway subtle image which is this

where Vito older now has established himself as much as he can a young man in New York City and he

goes to a musical performance and they're the backdrop of the production going on is this curtain

and you see the Statue of Liberty painted on there so I just like how you know they're using this

recurring motif to express that continual yearning of becoming legit finding your place in this

new place and what the sacrifices that takes and the you know the moral and personal sacrifice it

takes. So while we're talking imagery you know we kind of tagged on Gordon Willis cinematographer

at the end of our conversation last time let's foreground him here I'm wondering if there is

a shot a use of the camera a use of lighting that is perhaps a favorite or one of your favorites

from the film the one you know you could maybe choose back to Alice Island that tracking shot along

all of those faces the waiting faces until we arrive at the young Vito and you just think because

of the expansiveness of both of these movies how each of those faces holds a story as rich and layered

of a family story as the one we're getting right I love the time the camera takes to to let us

actually look at each of those faces but for me the Gordon Willis shot is when Vito D'Niro's Vito

now is waiting line and wait to kill Fenucci played by guess what I was going what he steps out of the

darkness there in the whole way the use of that hallway lamp you know and how Fenucci

Vito turns takes out the lamp the light bulb so that it's it's dark in the hall

Fenucci notices it flicks it a little bit to get it to flash and then flashes on and off cut to

D'Niro hiding in the corner of the hallway and he's exposed with each fat flash and just how the

the use of lighting amps up the tension is he going to be seen what's going to happen and it's just

you know I think I think we can glamorize the violence and the killings in a lot of these movies in

a way that maybe we should take a step back and consider when is it being you know yeah when

is it being glamorized and is that such a good thing but there is also artistry at work in making

each of these moments feel tense suspenseful dangerous and morally conflicted I think when it's

presented with this much care and craft and technique it gives you the time and space to think

about what you're watching rather than a quick kill shot and that's what the lighting in particular

in this sequence does so for me that's the Gordon Willis shot yeah I think it probably is for me too

and I think that it portends so much and the other shot I'd mentioned is the the one I interrupted you

about it's it's seeing Vito looking at the statue of liberty through the glass but when you think

about that scene in the hallway you're right it could have been handled so many different ways and

it suggests that as stealthy as smooth as seemingly sort of uncaring if you will that Vito seems

to be in terms of at least being able or being willing to carry out some of these tasks in that

moment there's just enough hesitation and there's just enough kind of fear in Daenergo's face that I

think it it suggests that he's willing to do it obviously he's planned to do it and he is going

to do it but it's something that he is not done before and he knows that he's crossing a certain

threshold when he doesn't right and it's it's all it's all captured there just in that cinematography

and in Daenergo's performance I'm thinking about all the supporting performances here but especially

John Cazale as Frado and another touch I loved and I'd love to know whether or not this was a

Coppola staging thing the production designer whether it was a Cazale idea or just the

alchemy of all of these different talents coming together the scene that we get out at the house

that leads to Frado's death where Michael confronts him and Frado explains how angry he is at Michael

and how he's mad about being passed over I've always taken care of you Frado

taking care of me you're my kid brother and you take care of me

you ever think about that you ever want to think about that same Frado off to do this same Frado

off to do that let's Frado take care of some Mickey Mouse nightclub somewhere same Frado to

pick somebody up at the airport I'm your older brother Mike and I will step over

that's the way to wake up one and eight the way I want it I can handle things up smart

not like everybody says like dumb I'm smart and I want to expect the fact that we see Cazale that

entire time the more agitated he gets the angrier he gets the more force he tries to exert

that is all completely hampered by the chair that he is sitting in he's sitting in that kind of

reclining chair where his entire body is sunk into it and it just seems such a perfect encapsulation

of who Frado is that in this moment when he's trying to assert himself on the world and assert

himself above his brother he's still physically struggling he's going against gravity just trying to

almost get up out of the chair that that moment is one I had never really paid attention to Josh

I don't know if it caught you as well where he almost looks silly in a way Frado usually kind of

looks silly but he's trying so hard to be so serious and to be so powerful and all we can do is

kind of shake our heads because he comes off as so ineffectual just by the way that he's sitting in

that chair yeah I mean that's that's the wonder of Cazale's performance right is that he somehow

is pathetic is completely out of place completely incapable yet somehow manages to capture our sympathy

as well and Frado is really like the second most important character in this story you could argue I

think in terms of tracing some of these themes we've actually been talking about other supporting

performances I mean Lee Strasberg famed acting teacher is Hyman Roth somehow the Miami mobster who

is seems more in control and merciless than Michael with but somehow at the same time being

friendlier that's the magic of that performance right like you you kind of know where you stand

with Michael even if you say in a polite thing with Hyman Roth you're just never quite sure so slippery

and come on we talked about Richard Castelano as Clemenza in the first film how much we love that's

relatively small supporting part okay if you're going to cast a young Clemenza get someone to do

justice to Castelano's Clemenza you got to get that right and I I don't know about you but Bruno

Kirby who I had completely forgot have seen this film you know a couple of times spent a long time

completely forgot the Kirby was the younger Clemenza and he's great he's great he's great he's great

he's always got food in his mouth and I'm pretty sure you actually watch him grow as the movie goes on

I really think you do because he's he's a lot he's a smaller guy here than Clemenza grew up to be yeah

yeah you completely buy them as as one and the same and you know we talked a little bit different

a little bit on Diane Keaton and the use of K in the first film I think I got a thought here yeah

I'd love to hear it I think you know well go ahead tell me what you got I think that you will

appreciate this though it would be ironic if you disagreed with me you said that you felt in the

Godfather one the one thing maybe it was missing is just a little bit more K we need to one more

scene maybe even one more scene where she wasn't with Michael just to a little bit more deeply

understand that character you were and I don't mean this in a flip way essentially applying the

Bechtel test to it you know sort of like give us a little bit more with that character and I

am not suggesting that another scene with K would have ruined the whole movie or wouldn't have

made her character more interesting but I also feel that movie is so perfectly constructed that I

just don't know what an extra scene would do I don't want to know what that scene is and what

its function is before I'd be like yeah let's definitely give K more scenes but in the Godfather

part two Josh I really did feel the absence of one more K scene interesting and the reason is

because we go so long between scenes with K it's kind of like the Godfather one and there's a

long absence when Michael is dealing with business basically right or when he's off because of the

family business he's hiding out in Italy and I think even just like the Godfather one we get one

scene with her where she interacts with Tom Hagen in Godfather one she comes to try to see Michael he

says he's not here I don't know anything about him and this one she tries to leave the compound

with the kids and he says no for your safety you got to stay here you can't but otherwise it goes

basically from the scene at the beginning where they're almost killed and maybe something after that

him leaving and more or less the whole movie transpiring until we get near the end and we get that

big dramatic emotional reveal of her saying what happened to the baby that she lost and even though

I'm sure someone's gonna argue this and I get it even though we see enough kind of icy tension

between them at the beginning and then everything we see Michael doing in between

shows us just how distance T is from his family and how much humanity he seems to be losing

there still was an absence to me or a gap between where K and Michael are at the beginning of this film

to then where she is when she is not only throwing in the towel on their marriage but she's doing the

most hurtful thing she could possibly do to him I felt like I needed maybe just one more scene

and again maybe even not another scene with Michael but I needed to just a little bit better understand

just how distanced and isolated she felt for him and not only that how how angry yeah she really was

towards him I don't I don't know that we get quite enough yeah well I think that's maybe because

in this film she's actually more instrumental to how we feel about Michael than she was in the first

film you know she was kind of for lack of a better phrase along for the ride in this family saga

and in this film she is now officially really officially part of the family so that might be it

I will say I did not you know go into this viewing with that at the top of my mind at all like

counting scenes of K or anything like that I came out of it really feeling like Keaton made more

of an impression on me but still thinking like yeah she didn't get a ton of scenes did she in

in this in part two either but all that being said she nails the scene she gets even more so

and that line reading of at this moment I feel no love for you at all is just not only

delivered perfectly in the context of those two people being together in that particular

ten seconds but instructive of the entire arc for him and the film and you know so Keaton is like

so crucial to this I also thought you know just talking about how her character is used in terms

of some of the more formal elements there is so much in size of editing going on in both of these

films and how about the cut from the sequence where the senator has been set up with the prostitute

who is dead and at this point the senator is just standing they're sitting distraught in the

bedroom with the dead prostitute and we cut to K pulling up at the estate both women absolutely

used as props by these men the senator and the prostitute Michael and using K the same way

obviously more personally at some point had more personal attachment emotional attachment

but still she has become essentially a prop a symbol for what he wants the family to look like

that scene with Tom and the senator also of course informs in hindsight the dialogue that the

senator has with Michael where he couldn't be more forceful with Michael and act like he has the

upper hand and yet Michael seems completely unfazed by it yeah and throws it back at him and says

that he's expecting him to put up the gaming license money himself it's totally absurd and of course

only then later do you understand why Michael has that confidence because he knows something that

the senator doesn't yeah which is that his brother runs that brothel that he frequents and he's

going to have a way to expose his hypocrisy he is going to be able to take advantage of his

frailties and his vices so as terrible as that scene is thinking about how willing they are to

use that sex worker in that way basically as a prop as a means to their end it is one that

makes us understand what Michael is is willing to do and again why he is so confident early in that

conversation with him I even love and this is a movie that just is full of these types of moments

the godfather is to the moment where the senator rejects what Michael says that line we were talking

about where he says don't think it ever extends to my family and it feels like such a major pronouncement

Michael's being so serious and thoughtful and the senator basically just says yeah yeah whatever

you know and the way that actor we got to look it up so I make sure we give him credit he's so good

here the way he dismisses that is such fun and it reminds you of what might be my other favorite

gesture in this film I can't even fully explain it when movie moments like this just just do something

to you and kind of make you make you giggle but the sequence near the end where the landlord figures out

who Vito is and he comes in to the olive oil shop and he's talking to him and he says she can stay

and and I think Vito kind of smiles near a kind of smiles and then he says and I'm going to lower the

rent five dollars and Vito just kind of leans back in his chair and looks at the other guy he just

looks at him he doesn't do anything but just look at him it's such a deniro movement oh it's such a

deniro move and and that's enough for the landlord to go ten dollars like he just needs to see him

react like that not even to him directly and he's like okay I'll give you more this movie has so

many of those just wonderful acting touches in it that's the dangerousness of deniro that's just

right there you know under the the skin that I was talking about so yeah I looked it up where you're

talking a senator Pat Geary played by GD Spratlin and he is indeed so good another throwaway

gesture like that not funny but touching actually I found involving deniro's Vito is after he

has been working at this point at a grocers and deniro gets fired because finucci comes in and

lays the pressure on the grocer and says I think it's like higher my naff you or something like that

you know and fire this guy and deniro takes it you know calm walks out the door and the

grocer chases him down the street with a box of food to give to his family and just kind of it

just kind of counters the sense of I don't know you know I know these films at the time got some

pushback from Italian Americans about the depiction of what that meant to be someone from Italy in

the U.S. and are we kind of relying on stereotypes here and I think a little gesture like that speaks

to the goodness of an ethnic community that could still be independent of all this crime and

and killing and that sort of stuff so that was kind of like a throwaway moment that I really

did appreciate can I throw one thing at you before we kind of wrap up here that did strike me kind

of a kind of like a new not revelation but just a new thought in revisiting this go going

back to how we started a conversation about the godfather but it was really interesting to watch

the godfather part two now that we are more than ever a wash in a landscape cinematic landscape of

sequels and reheats and rehashes and legacy quills and whatever you want to call them

because that's what the godfather part two was right and it made me think about how does the godfather

part two fit within fanboy culture and I do not mean at all to put this on the same level of something

like the MCU or Star Wars but it did occur to me that this movie is kind of functioning for fans

somewhat in the same way that fans of those franchises watch them it's a sequel that knows exactly

what its audience wants and it gives them that I already alluded to this in the when I talked about

how it does feed us that it's all about the family at the beginning before to my mind subverting

this is a movie full of Easter eggs and callbacks I noticed for the first time Nina rotas theme

being played on the church organ during michael's son's first communion in 58 there's no like there's

no reason that would happen in that church ceremony but that's what you get and of course that's

for the fans to geek out on that how about deniro's veto in one of the flashback sequences buying

oranges on the street right yeah 10 real quick there's a bunch of oranges in this film just like

the oranges mean death a couple times in the godfather part one Johnny Ola comes in with oranges at

the beginning of the film Johnny Ola there you go is hymen roth's representative and they're of

course going to try to kill michael don fanucci buys oranges yes before he is killed there's at

least one more orange reference in the godfather part two and then you get callbacks of course like

you know michael saying i'll make him an offer he can't refuse right this is this is what was

made me kind of laugh a little bit is this is all the sort of stuff that fans would eat up

but some critics would kind of point to nowadays and say and would they call a fan service right

so it's it's a sequel full of fan service again don't mean to put these two yeah these two things

on the same level but it was just interesting to watch the movies function in somewhat similar ways

sure i mean copole uses some of the same techniques and they are callbacks you're absolutely right

there's a bunch of them and i did note all of the ones that i saw i'll mention a few even just the

cross cutting of the gunshots when veto kills don fanucci of course corresponding with this parade

festival it's going on in the streets which mirrors the baptism sequence at the end of the godfather

part one and the cross cutting there the baptism being equal to that in terms of the family

really starting in some ways the the reign of veto corleon starting in that moment when he kills

don fanucci and the reign of michael corleon starting his part of the family business starting in that

moment during the baptism how about the fact and we've already touched on this the movie opens with

this big family sequence the first communion mirroring the wedding at the beginning though very

different assassinations ending both of the films and the use of doors that shot and i think i

alluded in our godfather one discussion to the moment in the godfather two where it's an even more

famous door closing but that final shot of the godfather one k outside the office and the door

closing and the new michael forming in that moment him officially taking over as the dawn and

that distance between them in the godfather part two that door close on her when she comes back

when she's visiting the kids we not only get that but there's a moment earlier in the movie

where veto gets exposed to kind of his first moment of crime i think and it's when

clemenza knocks on his window isn't it clemenza who said yeah the guns he gives them the guns he's

guns he gives them the sack i'm pretty sure it's the moment where deniro either in that exact scene or

later with clemenza i think it's there though he takes it and he goes into the bathroom and he closes

the door while his wife is in the kitchen yeah he leaves her out while he closes the door so he can

do business he can see what's in that bag you're right there are a ton of touches and kind of

throwbacks or callbacks to the first film i kind of love how this movie ends too where it actually

almost in like a memento type fashion the last scene of this movie feels like it could have been

in some ways not literally but chronologically yes it's the beginning of the godfather one that

family sit down where they're about to honor pop on his birthday and michael's about to reveal

that he's going off to fight in the war that he that he enlisted think back to the godfather one

starting just after he's come back from the war and it ending the godfather part two ending exactly

where the godfather one eventually would pick up two other just quick things that i've gotten my notes

that i appreciated this time or that stood out to me hymen roth like king lear talking about

dividing up his kingdom as he's carving up pieces of the cake carving up cuba also michael talking

with tom earlier in the film and saying that the loyalty of all the men that work for the family

extends as far as business they're just businessmen like anybody else and how that actually informs

his understanding of the rebels in cuba right the rebels aren't businessmen the rebels they they're

in it because they actually care they mean it right so it's not about being bought they can't be

bought they're willing to die for their cause yeah and going back quickly to the final scene you know

with with michael announces going to endless that's why i do still feel sympathy for him we we

made diverge a little bit in in a reading of how the movie presents him overall but i would agree

you never lose that sympathy and i don't think the movie wants you to and that's proof of it that

that's where we end where we see who michael was before this whole incredible tragic journey began and

we could spend an entire podcast and do another 50 minutes probably on the frank pentangely character

and some of the questions that still exist to this day around some motivations and whether or not

all the plotting is completely sound in this movie i'll just say for now that i think michael v. gotzo

is brilliant as frankie pentangely i think every every supporting performer in this film is pretty

amazing and three of them did get oscar nominations deniro won it deniro gotzo and strasberg for hymen roth

frado jankasale somehow left off of that and of course infamously alpichino despite

this performance is michael corleone losing to art carney in the best actor race in 75

yeah i mean can't speak to our carney but that does seem pretty ridiculous and just to put this

in the context of you know deniro's career which most people already know but you're looking at just

before this a year before this mean streets and before that you know pretty minor stuff i mean

bang the drum slowly also in 73 with mean streets the gang that couldn't shoot straight in 71 but i

mean talk about a presence talking about an energy fully formed if not an actor but an energy

fully formed to come on and take a role like this and just hold it so fully absolutely incredible

it is the godfather part two a movie i want to go rewatch right now it's not too late is it josh

it's only three hours of 20 minutes i mean feels like an hour and 20 minutes depends hey that goes

back to what we talked about with the first film you know the patience and how it's a different

way of using your running time than the two and a half plus hour movies mostly we seem to be

getting these days well that's where we're going to end it we would love to hear from you on the

godfather part two including maybe your answer for us definitively do you have a favorite do you

have a preference is the godfather part two the movie that a lot of people think it is i heard a

little bit of the rewatchables podcast they did on the godfather part two now it was in fairness

for people talking but josh their discussion of the godfather part two and no i did not listen to

most of it is two and a half hours so our 55 minute review of the godfather kind of pales in

comparison to that two and a half hour conversation but all four of the commentators start off by

saying that the godfather part two is not only the better godfather film and they love the first godfather

film it's the best film ever made they all four i believe feel that way and they basically say

that it's just riskier it's more complex and the shorthand is kind of you know the godfather is

a perfectly constructed pop song and the godfather part two is the jazz odyssey or the opera it's

just deeper and and maybe a little bit more confusing but also more emotionally complex or resonant

that's the the conventional wisdom on the godfather too and i think i always held it

until i watch the movies back to back but we don't want to go there no i mean as i said i'm not

going to but i i will say didn't listen to that episode respect that show but if you've got four

people and they all pick godfather part two is the best film of all time you got to shake up your panel

a little bit their boys you know what sometimes when you're right you're right you know it's it's

it is that good it needs to be thought of in those terms josh but we don't disagree about the godfather

part two maybe i'm just a little more emphatic in my love i mean i i don't know how you're measuring

that but sure i'm measuring it too that you didn't put either in your sight and sound top 10

and i put the godfather part one in my sight that's true that's fair yeah if i'm remembering

do i have either in my top 20 i don't know well after research we'll save that for another time

i mean you've won you want to wipe everybody out i don't feel like i have to wipe everybody out

just my enemies i will confess i didn't relisten to this review i feel like i might have come out

somewhere saying that i ultimately feel like you have to go with the godfather one because it's

the original if you're forced to choose between the two but historically i've always said josh that

i think the godfather part two is maybe the better film i i don't know how you choose between the

two of them they're both so good it's you can't bring it up now we're on the record we just have to

let that be okay i'll let it be hope you enjoyed that conversation and we'll remind you that

access to the film spotting archive is just one of the benefits of joining the film spotting

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