’The Boys’ Season 5, Episode 3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Welcome into the ringer verse.

This is of course the ringer's Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom.

We are Steve the architect almond the build during tinker of things.

Jomi explain our dinner on you've got questions.

He's got answers.

Oh man, Van he of the receding resurgent headline coke baby Chuck the 24

carry clothes are together.

We are known as I'm in night boys.

We'll be right back after this.

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All right pause on socials that's at the midnight boys pod on instant tiktok at ringerverse on instant Twitter Facebook and tiktok.

How would you explain the relationship between the ringerverse feed and the individual midnight boys feed like give people like explain it.

Yeah it's my job it's my job to explain stuff.

So ringerverse is holds many podcasts under the umbrella midnight boys yeah house of our yeah button mash button mash all exists within the ringerverse up got you that's where you can find all the content relating to all the stuff that we cover video games movies TV everything that we love we hold sacred a fandom is under the ringerverse umbrella now house of our in the midnight boys that's us that's where you find van Steve.

Charles me just having time like you guys saw on the last clip we did with the China mind mail yeah people love that by the way yeah that's the kind of stuff you want to admit because you

Falcon was a more like you're doing this for the last lot yeah so here's the and here's why so obvious that so so so here's the light that's like not it correct because you not only can you not put a four minute clip on YouTube as a short you can't if you don't

if the clips are under three minutes their clips are over three minutes on Instagram they can get recommended to people's feeds so that does not work for my

judge all right so now that we know this I'm not doing it because I am not here to be manipulated by

Joe me the algorithm new name Joe me the algorithm of dinner on which is a better name yeah

Joe me the algorithm is Joe the algorithm of dinner on the end of the matrix he now worshiping the algorithm it's under

it was over three more for in the midterms.

Who do you call it?

on YouTube like I was about to use cloud in a second like I'm gonna write share you can watch every midnight boys in every house of our episode on YouTube.com

backslash at ring of hers programming.

Okay I'm Friday but Nash discusses pragmata and mouse PI mouse PI for higher we've already didn't now look now.

I thought that was last week that was last week maybe we were wrong that's what was in the it was in the same thing so

yeah that's coming up this week now now mouse PI for higher so like that game once again we talked about it

yeah the versatility of mice so it's like a mouse detective yeah do whatever that's what the fuck I'm talking about okay

um on Thursday house of our does it mid season check in with Daredevil what are we doing in mid season check in with Daredevil

we are coming back I believe next week we get to be good at yeah good exciting you know what

shows been good uh we're I want to have a guest on the show I want to ask you guys oh okay you know the young

lady that does the web series we've talked about this before we need to comment books or web series I've been

uh talking to her she wants to come on the show and talk about her web series do I have is that good

thing for the midnight boys you want to have her on yeah let's do it like have her talk about the web

is a really great web series takes place think on a comic book shop it's very funny it's very cool all right

and we want to have her on the show talk about it and get you guys all excited about what's the

call for the people that don't know I don't know the name of the web series is the comic shop um her name

is jomi why don't you shine her name is shyin well because you bailed it in the last name is she's not

you she's not you she's not you okay I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure you say the last name shine

and

and wulu it's not hard it's shyin it will look first of all let me take that something um oh hold on for a second

wait a second hold on for a second but now I didn't know about this web series but one of my friends

from teams is in this now I don't know if it's one of my friends from TMZ or if it's her sister

because it's twins they got two twins okay now I can't tell twins apart but we're like it's

like by the name twins shane called like one of them one of the cold sisters worked at TMZ for

a little while okay they're really cool bubbly smart talented ladies but it's called the comic shop

I want to have her on um so she can talk about her web series because I think I think it's cool

that's cool things awesome um I think she has like a ridiculously bright future so we'll have her

on the talk on okay that's great all right um and jomi there's nothing wrong with it now

there's nothing wrong with you are Nigerian so to help the pronunciation of the name there's

nothing wrong with it was it's five letters my man you could have done it now I believe in you

now if you send the name of not getting your role it would have been like a yo yeah it's in the name of

not getting it wrong yeah it's the name of actually think van did the respectful thing right like

that's what we mean we tell white people like hey yo don't be like butcher in the fucking name like

exactly Sabrina Carpenter is that your culture well that wasn't even wrong she did nothing

she did nothing wrong how's that what does it really cover me now that coach challenge she was just like

like time to get into it we gotta get to the boys we gotta get to the boys right we gotta get to the

boys um on today's show the minna boys are doing the last episode of the boys so three um we're

also giving some thoughts on the drama this is a chuck clear out we're gonna do no no no no no no

once what's a month we're gonna let chuck cook chuck's time of the month man last episode you were like

yo we got don't do that don't do that that's the name of the fucking that's the name of it

Steve chuck's time of the month do you i love you so much that's chuck's time of the month it's like

give me a round really chuck's time of the month turn from you being like a yo next week we all

got a round round round to a yo Charles we're clearing now so you can talk because this is because

this is the deal like we talked about how much you loved conclave you were talking about how much

you love conclave i could tell that conclave was a release for you because you're watching like

fuck agatha but then like you have to you won't when watch conclave and it was it was great by the way

conclave was great i was fantastic now some the boys is kind of like it's a really crowd pleasing movie

it almost felt like a fandom movie when you were watching we'll talk about that a little bit later

yeah sure but uh there's a lot of stuff to cover chuck's time of the month you will talk about

but this is going to be a spoiler filled episode of the boys and the john it's begin our reactions we

must have once again bring you the midnight manifests talking about all the need to know stuff in

this episode chuck take it away all right there's your midnight manifests for episode three of the

final season of the boys every one of you sons of bitches directed by Karen gavilla written by

Ellie monahan at a press conference home lander announces to the world that soldier boys this

father setting off the media storm thanks to the compound v1 in his vein soldier boys immune to

the virus and immortal realizing this is way to gain immortality and save himself from the virus

home lander sends his minions on a quest to find the surviving vials of the compound at the same time

home lander has a vision where madeline assures him that he's a he's the messiah the boys team up

withstand edgard to find the final whereabouts of v1 but are intercepted by the deep black mouar and

the rest of home landers goons meanwhile butcher reunites with ryan and convinces his pseudo son that

the only way to kill home lander is for ryan to lure his father out into the open and ambush and

with the virus when ryan realizes this would be a suicide mission butcher assures him that he'll

also sacrifice himself ryan confronts home lander after learning from butcher that the leader of

the seven raped his mother home lander beats his son near to death with with butcher arriving too late

to stop it that has been your midnight manifests for the boys all right then let's walk walk us

through the third episode of the final season okay so let's start off two things i want to start with

kind of get you guys's take on them number one the first thing we see is ryan

yes we knew that we would see ryan it's a huge story thread kind of the one thing that really

over the last couple of seasons of the show tether butcher and home lander teach other more than

ever but we see that ryan is full on killing he's full on murdering people in order to protect

himself and hide where he is now interesting to me that we always felt like once ryan started down

that road that there would be no way to kind of pull him back from that that once he became home lander

in terms of like not valuing human life that there would be no way he would just careeing down

the road of of like taking as far as place but it seems like the show plays with that tension

that that's not what's happening to him when you first saw him killing did you expect to get

ryan fully mutated into home lander or were you looking for kind of the the fastest in the show

that will pull him back to his humanity i think based off everything from last season to your point

in the couple seasons i think they were always going down evil super boy lane but then i kind of

just realized i was like oh there's not there's not a lot of narrative potential there in terms of

like first season long tv which is like the only thing that is still i think what was interesting

about this episode is the only thing that is connecting butchered to his humanity still is ryan

because ryan reminds him of his deceives wife and similarly the only thing that's really tethering

home lander to his humanity is ryan and i think the crux of this episode and the the most interesting

thing about this episode but i think the season is is that both butchered home lander

kind of cross the final line where butchered is essentially asking a child to kill himself

for the cause and home lander is beating the beating his son to death and i was like oh okay

is this crepky and co basically being like there's no coming back for these two monsters because

that was a point in the episode where i'm like oh yeah it's kind of once you beat your your own

kid on screen you're just like did that's seen surprise you stave like when he goes when he

actually asked ryan to like kill himself i didn't know because you know that the virus has to kill

him but i was still surprised that butchered was willing to go to that point it's an interesting setup

for butchered to seemingly ask this of him and i i wasn't necessarily surprised because i know that

butchered goes low and every chance that he gets but what i'm interested in seeing him like

fight that every once in a while and you don't see it until the end when he kind of realizes what

he's done i doubt he's gonna regret it because i'm interested in the idea that other shows where like

one like linchpin character that ties these two forces together home lander and butchered

usually they they would like try to be pulling him to each other's side like they would in previous

seasons now they're just using they're just being used as a cudgel to like get at one another

i'm curious how long ryan lasts if that just gets like ice i foresee ryan kind of like

flaming out in some way that makes both home lander and butchered go at each other in a more extreme

way and so i wasn't exactly surprised that butchered got that low because in my opinion i think home lander

actually stepped a bit farther beyond the pale and that jesus thing like regardless of current events

how in the world how do they do this every time how in the world how many they got to do this right

in there no i mean listen when you when you don't think the real world could go any farther

it don't like the boys thinks like oh we could go here and real world goes actually we can also

get this crazy i really don't think it's anything more than that it's just like we live in the

worst time but like if you're crimp you go and you see the jesus thing literally days i gotta do something

guys i gotta see if lasalons old picked the phone up they don't pick up the phone i don't know if

mother's milk will pick the phone up for us right now but when you saw the jesus stuff in this

episode and if you guys have been paying attention you're the reason you're the fucking problem

Donald Trump posted an AI image depicting himself as jesus the same week the same week that on the

boys home lander is contending with this jesus and god complex that he now not the first time

that's happened by the way uh what was that episode it was supposed to be called a sassimation run

right and it wasn't get isn't called that because of uh because of certain events certain events

that happened around the same like i feel like somebody out there has scripts think air cryptic

came from the future and was like i don't know what to do god man let's see let's see if

let's see if mother's milk will pick the phone up because i just want to ask him about this

you know i have other questions too let's see if you'll pick the phone up

when i'm sure second ring that's the homie you want to pop hands right now bro listen

i already knew it we have a question oh like the van don't just call me

we want you on for the finale but i have a question how does the show

continue to predict stuff the home lander god stuff in episode three comes out the exact same week

the down trunk post an a i image of him as god it's it's creaky talking to trump it's creaky uh psychic

like what's going on in the room where they get this stuff to write bro i felt the exact same way

when uh we dropped a home lander meme working at vott burger and that was the same week

yep that home lander that trump i mean same person basically that trump worked at make donals remember that

it was the same exact week whatever they're smoking in our right is room i have no idea

it's a good shit bro because we've been literally on point even season four we almost weren't able to

air an episode because it was talking about assassinating the president

and it was during the time when trump had that assassination attempt right so they've just been

some really eerie coincidence is not just in the material but also in the timing that have just

aligned like ridiculous this is ridiculous all right before we let you go i just need you to tell

beat by beat what happens in the finale okay yeah here we go

oh man uh listen you guys have been awesome i love watching your fan theories i love watching

your predict stuff sometimes y'all are so on point that i can't even comment like i just got

pretend like hit the like i don't even like the post um you got to on point but yeah man i mean uh

i appreciate the love and yeah man when the finale comes we definitely got to run it back

oh for sure i totally we we we've been covering it all the entire time yeah we want to have

in studio if you you know if you if you in town like having a studio talk to you get the whole

deal we appreciate you though brother absolutely let me know two man because uh if we got some of

the guys in town and we can just all just mob up there together that would be awesome that would be

awesome all right man i'm gonna hit you up like i appreciate you talk to y'all i think peace

uh lasalanza lasalanza a little quick deal i want to ask you something real quick yeah

the soldier boy thing remember we talked about it on the last episode soldier boy comes back to life

at the end of episode two but we thought it was dead it doesn't really come back to life it turns out

that he's not dead now we know that at first i don't think that you you you wanted him to maybe die

or you you felt like no no i'm more so felt like you don't uh bring an actor like that into a

series where i don't have someone where you're having a whole spinoff show about him and also

soldier boy is such an interesting character it's almost like outside of butcher to me the most

fascinating character on the show just because like man out of time who is homelanders father i honestly

think they walked into a really interesting story about like now this is a generational story

about like whiteness and power and breaking like not to use an overused phrase but generational

curses and that's why i was like no yeah you can't kill off soldier boy that early and that's what in

the in the premiere of those first two episodes that's what i was bumping up against where i was just

like if you can predict anything with the boys i'm just like they're really not going to kill anybody

if there's more meat on the narrative right and it turns out that that was a device to introduce us

to compact the compact v1 to compound v1 now we know that soldier boys immortality and he was

able to resist the virus because of compound v1 so they used him kind of as a little mcguffin or

device necessarily mcguffin now the compact view right the compact compact compound v1 is a

mcguffin like do does that did they like narratively pay that choice off to bring them back and then

have them you know the whole yeah i have a question like i have a question kind of for that because

like that felt like a little rushed in my opinion about like oh we have a brand new virus and we

have a brand new thing to adapt to that seemingly could be seen as like okay we got a narratively

kick this mcguffin or like plot point down the road a little bit what do i mean to solve this

now we have another problem to solve it's classic boys where it's like i think there's two ways to

make kind of like a final season of tv which is just like we are barreling towards a conclusion

and we are not like saving any gas for like we are like everything is happening versus like this is

a more traditional network tv which is like the boys is very good at like giving them a new mission

yeah every single episode giving a new mcguffin so it's like it's not necessarily that the v1 thing

didn't work for me it was just more so i'm just like okay this is just another thing that you

need the boys that can give you two episodes of story and save the big stuff for the penultimate

episode of the episode will only that it's like they have a solution to the virus like the whole

thing was like the virus it kills all the soups and all this and you see even the characters like

chemical and antigo like maybe that could work for us if we take the v1 could we survive the thing

because like ultimately that's where it goes is you put the virus out there you kill home lander

you kill all the bad soups and hopefully if you take in the v1 you survive right i think that's

like the big idea it's not less it's not much of a mcguffin is can we save the lives of the super

heroes we care about okay now let me ask you guys this so this entire time we realized that

both stormfront and soldier boy were really well preserved soldier boy a little bit different

because he was in the ice for a little while right so you could use that as an explanation as to why

he's not aging however i do think that it was interesting and i would love to to like talk to

Eric about this Eric because you know me and jomi hung out with him that's our guy

jomi was talking to everybody that day that was cool we talked a bunch of the jim v1

jim v1 situation y'all don't want to fuck with us you don't ever want to fuck with us you don't

ever want to fuck with us anymore we have to talk about this we have to talk about the fact that

you are two in love and you are two of a man about town i've been hearing about you

from who i've been hearing about you swinging your shaleil around lost

answer you guys don't want to hang out with me and jomi anymore all right now jomi is getting to

this point now too nobody comes to the crib anymore both men here's you guys's voices

and both men's like both men's like whatever like you went you went out with the love of your

life you guys went on a vacation normally that would have been time spent at my house

you know okay your man that i took that i took my girlfriend out on a

i'm not mad at all my man like i'm not mad at all i'm not mad at all it's a lot of fun that's all

you guys having a lot of fun you guys are having fun all that i said

don't put it in the newspaper i was mad i wasn't that i'm saying that i'm saying is i'm saying is

things have changed and this summer we got to get shit back right reassemble

i feel like i'm through like you i've seen you right and you should be ashamed of yourself

you have to be ashamed of yourself you have to be ashamed of yourself you have to be ashamed of yourself

so i thought it was interesting and i like i said i would be interested to ask Eric whether or

not they went okay this is the explanation for why i store in front and uh so you don't get any

older because i have a different version of the compound v or if they had this in mind the entire

time if they had this this in mind the entire time because this also when you think about it

he's based on uh captain america right and in marvel the super soldier serum has had diminishing

returns ever since urskins original super soldier serum work on Steve Rogers but we left

on my question these why don't they ever bring up the immortality before like it did i miss that

like i don't know they they didn't directly bring it up but they brought it up and so far as when we

when we realized stormfront was so old that she used to be liberty yeah they didn't say necessarily

that she had a different version of the serum and that's what made her so old but they did bring up

the fact that she was around in like the 50s i just i just thought that like maybe she had slowed aging

like even immortality i'm like stormfront can still get can still be killed

why i didn't know the world of comics you can kind of yada yada that and she's like oh she's so

powerful she can't age that that that that quickly or something like that like we're used to those

things yeah i mean it's so that it was gonna apply to all of them sure that they all were gonna

live for a very very long time all the soups with i mean not we're not really because remember uh

a train like his heart was messed up right like the v like that's why he was transporting the v1

in in season one right so i think like it's something that they've seated throughout the first

couple first couple seasons but this is the first time where i actually like addressing it full on

so do you guys moving on to kind of like the boys part of this dan edger we were kind of talking

about the connection of the boys and um generation v or gen v and like this was the episode where i was

like oh maybe not having these characters in it is starting to become distracting because people

are pointing to like well marie is with you when you're doing this or she's off there she's like

yeah i talked to her yesterday but a little blah blah and i'm like oh it's this was the first

where i was like i could see kind of the stitching of like you're trying to kind of connect gen v

but it maybe they'll show up in the finale but you keep reference and characters that are not

showing up well it's already there that's already connected so i actually like when when when

kind of looks and shows do that so it's already connected because you're in the bunker so that

bunker was established in gen v so the the connection is in the fact that they don't have to

explain to you why stand egg or is there so like mitch but they do have to explain to you either

with a line or with a mention why marie is that's fair because that because at the end of that season

they had basically said like she's a superhero that can go toe to toe with homelander so there is a

level i'm like oh is this something that's going to come back in the finale or is this because we're

not getting enough we probably aren't getting another set season of gen v is just kind of a dangling

plot the right at this point there's a lot of game left for that though yeah it's like what there's

still like five episodes left and i think that like you said marie maro like her big thing is with

like kishin no one on one homelander like if we're gonna see her for the first time i wouldn't

like to be the some little bit part where she's like coming around to stand in her thing like if we

want to see here like but there's also no water to be like the final thing that shows up as like

the hail marie to defeat homelander with like little to no context right little to no context to who

i mean unless unless you're not watching gen v right that's the thing and now and then you have

the required reading conversation again you know what i'm saying like no it was just more so i was

like there's a lot of gen v there was a lot of gen v dna in this episode and i was wondering i'm

just like is that where Annie's flying off to at the end of the episode because she has a

relationship with them right and they can't get hurt like he we can and so like i mean her whole

thing was like oh he almost died i can't put you in danger i'm a leave maybe she's gonna go see

the gen v kids i don't pop it's easy also so we we have to see we have to catch back up with Zoe

because what happened to victoria you know victoria newman getting pulled apart by homelander

it's such a big deal the bunker a lot of times in this show what ends up happening is the stuff that's

going on with the boys just takes a gigantic backseat to what's going on with homelander and what's

going on at vaught and the seven because it's such a crazy world and the boys all almost seems like

that's the real world and the homelander vaught world that seems like the more fantastical

yeah sometimes more interesting world in this episode didn't really feel that way to me the bunker

was incredibly interesting number one because of the relationship that we didn't realize was happening

between ryan and zoe how would zoe like relate to them being that butchered killed her dad and then

the introduction of maverick who is translucent son which gave he was his own guilt because like he

gets a pass a lot of times in the show for being like the moral god a guy would know redness ledger

and all of that stuff but he actually has some and we what the first kill right yeah yeah first season

when they're doing the previously on the boys and I saw the chances of seeing I was like

I wonder what that's about like like we like this is like the first thing that happens

and then once the pet over a maverick's over there I'm like ah he's gonna have to he's gonna have

to own up for this one well I think the interesting thing is and I'm I think it's going to be a season

long project is obviously they're introducing for all of the members of the boys like okay what is

our role in this what is and it's like obviously he who is the person who even starlight sees it is

like I think it's actually he we and mother smoker like how can we stop this cycle of violence like

we've killed all these soups we've done all this stuff and how far have we actually gotten

and it seems like he we and it even sees like Kimiko like there's a really good scene with

Kimiko and Franchi where Franchi is just like we could travel the world for the rest of our lives

and never staying in one spot and she's kind of like what about settling down what about kids

and Franchi doesn't want to bring kids to this world so I think that's also emotionally to me the

most interesting part of this episode is like all of the characters are either like if you're butcher

if you're starlight they're just like hey we've done so much mission is getting rid of home lander

fuck whatever happens after that and you got people like Huey and Kimiko and mother's milk being like

actually what like what world are we actually saving that right there to me is the through line

at least so far of the entire season yeah the entire season is who is resigned to their fate

and who is approaching and wanting more like home lander wants to ascend to godhood

something that we hadn't even considered for him before right when other members of even the

vat like they just want to rule this world and maintain corporate power like Stan Edgar and

homeland are into different places Stan Edgar is talking about the durability and sort of eternal

I guess it's internality of how you describe something that's like durable for eternity I don't know

I'm looking for more flowery work but what he's talking about is that corporation and corporate power

is intractable that it'll never move yeah it is the only thing it's all it always looks fat right so

he's resigned to that yeah whereas homelander seems like he's trying to bring about a new world order

that is greater than that yes like like a Jesus Christ millennia I mean he's like a super premises

right so so like even those two guys within that faction of people have two different views of

what should happen and that's the same thing that's happening inside the boys half of them want the

battle to be about killing home lander the other half of them want to rid the world of this type of

evil and then live in a new world I think like as as a show goes through like a final season

it does the thing where like it brings back characters and then like kind of it wants to wrap it

up in a nice little pretty bro they talk about an episode one how that's hard but I think through

three episodes the show's doing a really good job of presenting itself as a as a final season

everybody's got to deal with the reckoning of their actions Huey with Zoe and with Maverick

they get back to the to the little lab and some mirrors like you guys lied to me like you guys

came and came here actually my help but you didn't tell me not only my daughter was alive

but that Victoria was killed by butcher and you all just just roll with it yeah think just especially

for the characters we care about think the shows doing a really good job of like wrapping like not

like finishing the storylines to start a lot of game left but pivoting to where like all the stuff

that they've done over the last five four and plus seasons they have to deal with it and they have

to like like you said like like self-sameering be like how do we move past us how do we move forward

I think it's doing a great job of us I mean if we go back to the home lender I think the most

death writing for home lender is honestly the most simple where it's like home lender reminds us

of Trump who wants to oppress people but he wants their adoration who wants their respect he wants

them like God other where it is just like he wants two things at the same time he's just like I want

you guys to love me but I don't want you to have free will and it is like at every point in this

episode of the route this season I'm just like Anthony stars just doing an amazing job of like

he's right up at the precipice of getting what he wants and feeling happy and it's still not

enough yeah it's never enough and there's always something that will like push that carrot a little

bit farther away from him that will make him go farther like it's like even at the press conference

it's so funny where it's like okay home lender for as long as we've known him has wanted to know about

where he comes from and his lineage and he has his father there and his father is finally getting

this moment where they've re-run history and he's the hero and the minute that the spotlight is

taking off home lender he has to reorient himself where it's like he wants the love of his father

but he also wants his father to be under him maybe maybe I'm too TV-pilled but in that moment I need

you guys to stay with me here and follow me as a brother I felt real succession vibes in the sense that

he reminded me of Jeremy Strong's character and succession where there are times you see like

he's got you got some juice you know what's his name

Shiv Roman what's the candle yeah yeah candle yeah candle like you you can see he's got some juice

like he when he operates you be like okay cool but as soon as his dad's in the room the

cold yeah completely cold and in that moment you see like that's his Logan Roy yeah and when his

when his dad looked at him it was like you're gonna die you're gonna weather I'm gonna still be here

I'm being charged you could just completely see him just like shrivel up yeah in his in his in his body

it was it was incredible so I think fathers and sons is that's really what this episode of the show

is about but that's so real like when my past was still living he would always do this thing right

and I don't know if he was doing it on purpose or if he was just that nigga like this

he'd always do this thing to where he would just like slightly one up me

but and it wouldn't be like even on purpose just like to remind you he was slightly one up me

like when I one time I had a baseball game I was not a really good pitcher

and stop pitching after the ninth grade but I had one game where I struck out like seven guys

right seven guys and like three anything what were you throwing huh what were you throwing

a four-seamer and a cutter I was on my Greg Maddox shit four-seamer not a lot of V-Lo right

okay located a four-seamer and a cutter I had a like a like a a dainty little cutter

just move off a little bit that's one of my dad and I'm good on lefties you strike out lefties

it was not all lefties that you throwing against like you you wouldn't have to throw a lot of lefties

like in high because that's the advantageous for them like a ton of left you're not really throwing

a cutter but you could but you could throw it against righties and have it move into the

plate and then the throw it against lefties a little bit if you wanted to paint right and throw it

off the plate a little bit my cutter had like had some little movement with it I was just obsessed

with it because of Greg Maddox anyway so I have this great game I'm then I strike out a bunch of

guys or whatever and and dad goes hmm well you look good out there then boy look good

say I want to daddy want to show you something when we get back to the house that

anyone show you some of my dad pitching college right pitch it's like he's like daddy want

show you something we get back to huh he's like don't don't don't take stuff off you have to get

you back or show you something when we get to the house we going to back yard and he was like just

he goes just hit the ball no man no nothing no nothing we going to back yard we're in a back yard

and in the suburbs so if he throw me some shit and rocking it man I'm gonna be right I'm gonna be

hitting shit he's gonna be neighbors yards yeah all like he's gonna be going into the neighbor

and he's like don't worry about that because you're not going to hit the ball okay he was like

don't worry about that he's like I want to show you how to throw this 12 6 and it wasn't even call

the 12 6 right there but he was but he threw a big looping curve my father we were not a Velo family

Velo family we were not a Velo family he was just a junk baller he was just like a guy who

could move the ball around crazy stuff and like got the secret in this mouth and he is the ball is

just dying like it's just but I can't even go so bro the ball is just fucking dying it's getting

there I'm like I got this nigga beep and he like ha ha shit and like and he's like and he's like

standing there he's like don't take it off your shoulder he ain't gonna be able to do nothing

with this you ain't seen nothing like this they'll throw this normal okay let me show you this

boom he throws it screw ball bam bam bam I can't frustrated my mom is laughing like I come back

in the house and I'm like yo why he had to do that to me you got a great day it was like the best

thing in your baseball career he's like he don't know what's the best thing in my pitching career

actually made me stop pitch but like and so and so and so but what I'm saying is he just he he

he got it was under the guise of trying to teach me like more pictures which he didn't teach me how

to throw not one of them motherfuckers but you just want to let me know wasn't quite there yet

but they did that way isn't that what you know athletes always like yo

sometimes my dad or mentor had to show me like oh feel hot there's another level to go yeah

right so that that's the kind of thing that way to the next day you know you could have

you could have let me live in the fact that I was up there killing the nigga from saying I'm

you should you should have bunted you should have you should have had to bun out there

bro one trying to one nigga I was trying to send some across the idea I was trying to make

I was I'm the man but also one thing when you're talking that I was thinking about with soldier

boy that I think connects back to Stan is Stan telling mother's milk essentially that like the

real immortality is corporations and capitalism and what I think it mirrors the conversation that

soldier boy has with homelander because what he's saying is like I represent an American ideal

at a time where things they weren't less complicated but it's just like hey we could pitch

all in narrative about what masculinity is American might good versus evil and what I think is so

funny about the the conferences that Stan is having it soldier boys having it's like soldier

boy is just like hey I'm what you're trying to be inevitably yeah I've literally been preserved in

ice like metaphorically where it's like you want an uncomplicated life you want to think like me

where I'm just like soldier boy is not thinking of what he said like he's like I don't care about

racism I don't care about sexism I don't care about any of this shit y'all talking about I will

be here for fucking ever to that point soldier boy also there's some things that surprise him remember

soldier boy is surprised that the president bence to the will of homeland yeah because in

soldier boys day that's not how it was uh soldier boys day as powerful as what he was he still had to

be subservient to the American political machine that deployed him right not like that anymore what

rules America now corporations very delicate little criticisms that are baked into the show back

to the farthest fathers and sons thing though think about the father and son messages that you

have here in this show thought about this while I was watching number one you have the revenge of

Maverick for the death of his father translucent you have soldier boy and homeland soldier boy now

kind of trying to figure out how he exists as both the father to this grotesque thing but also like

secondarily to him he eventually fucks somebody who was in sort of a not a sexual relationship

but some sort of symbiotic relationship to hellmlander he takes something from him right um you have

butcher talking to Ryan about the fact that butcher killed his father yeah right and then you have

soldier boy and Ryan you have fathers killing sons you we also make you father he we make sure

how he killed his dad how he killed his dad you have like legitimately a theme of this show

this particular show episode three is whether or not sons have to kill their fathers or whether

now fathers have to kill their sons I mean and even like it's not a father and son but even if you

think about mothers smokes journey this season it is about a father removing himself from his family

because he thinks all I bring to them is pain right so it is like when we're like it the show is

asking the seasons like okay which I think is the most interesting question you can ask for the boys

which is just like all right they're pitched as the heroes of this series but at the end of the day

after five seasons like what have they accomplished it's just they killed a lot of people and now the

the sons are coming to seek revenge and it's like I think it did a very good job of showing like

yo Huey's full of shit like Huey in that moment is full of shit where he wants to be he has a

vision of himself as a good person but the minute he has to own up to the fact that like hey I

killed your dad he can which I'm just like and I think the other thing is actually be a good person

that actually has to be like in that moment and I guess it answers my question of just like wait

why did you forgive a train because Huey's now asking for the same thing that he wanted from a

train and I was just like oh and that's where I'm like can the show stick that landing of

is Huey actually a good person like the show says he's a good person or like the people right

it's like you're the best of us but I like look I'm like hey you guys just killed two soups last

like last that's the true yeah he's really just the least worse yeah really relatively speaking

yeah Huey is the best one but you you the scale yeah Steve you're the Huey of this show yeah I'm

the least worse okay so you're the butcher you're the he's the Huey what is what's Charles

home lander what the fuck you're French home lander is crazy you're French you're a French

you pill it as well like you're a French you're a mixer of you're a mixture of you you have one

aspect of home lander in you that you can't get off the milk can't get off the milk like by the

way I heard about you you can't I heard about you I heard about me I heard about you everybody is

heard about everybody knows oh yeah you're definitely home lander you're you're probably

French but you could be like a bunch of different I want to be on this moon you can be in man

you in man the heart and soul of the team yeah the t-shirt game yeah great t-shirt game like

you got the fucking coats on right now still ripping them that's amazing I'm at his grades you

got to fight back but he's definitely home lander you can't I mean you could have been Kimiko

look at me definitely you could have been the starlight you bring the light oh I would not be

sorry no we don't we don't have a starlight a layer starlight yes there you go that's all layers are

starlight all right you're towards the end of the episode I legitimately thought the home lander

Ryan stuff was to me one of the most thrilling and compelling scenes in the history of the show

because it's one of the oh now I will say this about the boys the boys does at times

glamour you with scenes they give you these big sure crazy amazing scenes killing a well hero

gasm whatever the fuck it is they give you these things that are actually attention grabbers

rather than like these really deep thematic moments the show has those as well that's

reason why the show's lasted but this was just emotionally gut wrenching to watch like it just

maybe personally hit a nerve for me or just watching home lander try to trick Ryan watch Ryan

try to usurp his father and what happens to him in the end I don't know why it worked so sensational

when we saw that shot in the trailer people were like speculator it's probably see this Ryan

most likely it could be social boy and to see like see him punch his son that he supposedly loves

and like we've seen home lander not like really five but we see them throw hands and he's not really

the one to be sentimental about killing people we see it all the time and for him to like even like

take a second while punching Ryan was like oh man like this guy is like beyond cooked it's never been

more over for this dude well also I think it's like I think that you could probably say I would love

to ask Eric Krypkin co was that also just kind of like you know a slight metaphor for if you think

about like the boomer generation and thinking of home lander as being like you know what not only

am I the Messiah but why would I give anything to my child yeah no I don't want you to become me

I want to live forever and I do think it's very interesting that it's like for all of these seasons

home lander thought I want to pass down something to my son I want to like build this empire and give

it to you one day and then get into the point where it's like you know you know what actually the

thing that would make me happy is that if I live forever and you get the fuck out of here and that

to me is about it and then we and we've seen that with like Omni Man and Mark from invincible in the

in the early days of the in the first season of that because he just he doesn't think about his son

he thinks about the bigger picture and that's the only thing that blinds him for that do you know

the stop but I'm sorry see what you say we've seen this in invincible when Omni Man nearly beats

Mark to death he stops because of seemingly his love for his son you could maybe see that as

the reason that home lander might have stopped from killing Ryan in the end of this episode but

he doesn't really try to indoctrinate him with the vision as he is it's more based on like around

a further lie that he tells Ryan yeah that he doubles down on the face like no like your mom

came under me like it breaks down and Ryan gets more and more upset as the truth happens exactly

right because as you get older the thing that you get upset with your parents about yeah all the

things they didn't tell you yeah the truth starts to be the thing now this is in the relationships

that I've had with my parents and authority figures not everybody has this some parents have less

secrets for another sure obviously mine had a lot of secrets all right but for parents have less

secrets than others but you start to get mad about the things about the world that they didn't tell

you you start to get mad about the things about themselves that they didn't tell you particularly

as you start to compare yourself to them yeah as you start to say all these things that you said

are not true because look at the things that you do one thing that he said to him was interesting

and I and I pegged this as something that I guess the exers or the boomers say to the younger

people they say our stewardship is up resulting in your freedom he goes you don't have to worry about

going out there and achieving my legacy don't worry about it you can do whatever you want

like you can do he says you know I thought that you would be the one that would carry this thing on

yeah the one that would elevate this thing because I can do that because I'm going to live forever

I'm a corporation I'm an entity that's going to live forever so that means that you are free

yeah to go do whatever you want you can go be a painter start a band you can just go fuck around

you can do whatever you want I think that a lot of times is the way people who want to be in power

and perpetuity that's the way they launder it they launder it by saying hey you know what as long

as we're taking care of things you can go out on the boat with your friends chill you never have to

be serious about anything because we are the serious ones a lot of people buy into that but it's

always bullshit so that you never have to actually continue with somebody else's view of the world

but as a masterful manipulation like parenting move quote unquote because like you think like the

kid thinks they're getting agency but really it's no at no point do they mention about being your

parent right or being any sort of authority figure because they think that they're like they're

absolving you of that agency it sucks I mean it's I think the other funny thing is like

when you think of what butcher tells Ryan he's just like hey kid you wouldn't be the first

soldier young man to go out there yeah yeah and die for the cause like which is a crazy that's a

good terrible so but also it's like in that moment and I think what was so funny about like Ryan

having a conversation with butcher that having it with homelander is like there is that thing as a

kid where you're talking to your parents and you realize that like for them to survive in the

atrocity of the world and everything that happens they almost have to capitulate where you're like when

you're young you still have the fire in the brimstone you still have the fight left in you

and like Ryan in that moment having to realize with butcher and home letter is like oh

all you have left is the cause all you have left is just like your singular belief that you are

right and the only thing that the only way for the for me to exist in the world is to help bolster

your world view and I was like oh I thought it was like the very I think those two scenes were very

good and like what happens when that kid is super boy what happens when he's finally like I don't

have to listen to you and what happens is he gets fucked up which is like a very that is what happens

to young children they're just like I'm not listening to you and then yeah the older generation

puts their boot heel on your neck and be like hey we didn't ask like do it yeah imagine your

your parents being a home letter butcher man it's a it's a shock Ryan as well adjusted as he is

right it's it's surprising he didn't pull his end day in the drama yeah drama guy to the drama

before we get off this real quick um oh daddy um it's why didn't homeland if you're right

I really would have liked to see why he didn't or at least connect with why he I feel like we will

right yeah yeah um but in that moment that felt really important to know that he was alive

when butcher found him I don't know if he kills Ryan man Ryan is the last thing tethering him to

this earthly plane right right without Ryan he can go full loco and like like really like

do the god of thing like unabated unabashed like as much as he wants to Ryan is still a piece of

him that like that keeps him keeps him in touch with his humanity whatever small little bit is left

that's gone it's over like we've lost yeah we lose if homeland if Ryan is so indiscriminately though

yeah but that's not his son like that's not his flesh and blood is a part of the reason why he didn't

kill Ryan just straight up narcissism right he views Ryan is different because Ryan is a piece of

well that but that's the thing that like I can't get fully into homelanders psyche as to why

because you could sell it as narcissism because he doesn't have like the emotional language to know

like no no it wasn't love it or like he says it was love but really it could be twisted as like oh

no no this is still part of my legacy this is still part of a thing that can carry on well I think

you just like you got to think about it anybody else goes in there with the virus and it's like we

we gonna I'm a go-kill home lander they probably die immediately right but your goes he like anybody

like gets off immediately Ryan's the only person in the world he probably outside for soldier boy

and he'd be like oh hello son let's let's talk for a second let me like that's it and so I think

him not killing Ryan is like I don't want to give you don't have to give them credit you don't

know saying you don't have to get nobody props but like that's just him being like I this is the

one thing I can't do but also one person I can't kill the thing home lander wants most in the world

is he wants to feel something he wants to be surrounded by people who can stand up to him who can

hurt him and Ryan can hurt him but you can hurt him soldier boy can hurt him like there was the

moment when soldier boy is like basically like homelander could kill soldier boy when he's like

dressing him down when he's bathed in breast milk the reason he does it is because I'm like

homelander wants to feel something even if it's driving him crazy he's like there is like I can count

on one hand the people on this world that can hurt me it stand up to me and I think in that moment

he was upset with Ryan but it was like oh someone's beams can actually get to me yeah like it's and it's

the fact that like he gets visibly excited when he's around the boys yes and it's the same for

him yeah yeah and it's not in that moment is not afraid of him and I think there is a thing for

homelander where it's like it's like a toy it's just like oh someone finally fought back

and I think that motivates him yeah right I think the underlying thing is just if someone is afraid of

you they can't truly love you there's like it if someone has a genuine fear of you it's they

can't truly love you because there's a vulnerability that he knows that people don't actually adore him

yeah he knows that people don't actually like him yeah because they're scared so everything that they

do just comes from that it just comes from the fact that they are scared and it makes all of those

interactions and that relationship it makes it all synthetic so to your point when he's around

people who aren't afraid of him those feel like genuine feelings when his father is like disappointed

in them that's something completely different I think the show well now I'll finish talking here

about I think this show did something really interesting in trying to illustrate homelanders trauma

in the fact that no one has ever truly been okay with him he's disappointed everybody who's

ever been an authority figured him everyone such a disappointment such a disappointment so legitimately

the only way for him to not be a disappointment is to become a god that's like the only reason the

only way he can do it right because the one thing that no one can like here's like here is see being

disappointed in God that is the like number one sin the number one sin is like going God's not good

enough like the like the number one sin is going like it God's will is wrong God's thing God God doesn't

love enough he doesn't forgive enough God betrayed me that's the number one sin so the only way soldier

boy can like excuse me the only way homeland to get to get to that point is to become a god then

it's it's legitimately blasphemous to be disappointed in him it's blasphemous to hold him in that

regard like he just wants to cut out the human parts of himself but I also think it's like the

thing that homelanders always been in search of is like and it goes back to what Stan was saying is I'm

like homelanders since he since he was a child was a product he was a product of a corporation

so people around him were disappointed in him in the same way that Tim Cook would be disappointed

in iPhone sales yeah so it's like and I think they made a very important choice in the beginning

where it's like we've never seen homelander in close we've always seen him in the costume that

the company had provided for him like even as he's trying to ascend to Godhood he is still made

in the image of the corporation and I think it is very interesting where it's like his arc is

trying to find some type of humanity and he can't because like everyone around him is just like

you never had a family you don't have regular emotions we're all in fear of you and I just

do think it's fascinating to be like I think Joby you brought this up I'm like is the worst

thing that could happen to homeland or not dying but actually being human actually I have to take

off the costume yeah actually having to sit with the fact that like what happens when I don't have

the one thing that gives me purpose in this world which is just like I have I'm the most powerful

person you guys have to listen to me so no matter if you love me hate me or whatever

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essentially Charlie and Emma a week out from their wedding both of them play a game with their

couple friends what's the worst thing that you've ever done they're getting drinks they're having

a good time blada blada blada everything's great Zendaya reveals that as a teenager she had

thought of and planned a mass shooting at her school and backed out at the last minute

this revelation sends everybody spiraling primarily Robert Pattinson's character Charlie who

feels like he does not know his partner he it's destabilizing and

shit fucking falls apart from the day.

My drop that happens.

Now before I go vent you like you were the one who was just like dog you love this movie you've

been talking about it.

Really quick what was it about this movie that just like got you absolutely sublime you know

why you know what it got you know what got me the attention to narrative detail.

Yes so there's a version of the movie where

everyone learns that and then that's enough that's not what they do they don't do that

they do two things number one they then make they put you in the mind of one of the scariest things

in America right now which is the mass shooter the mass school shooter the mass shooter but

specifically the school shooter they put you in the mind of the school shooter they put you in the

mind of someone who there's this combination of events that lead them to convince themselves

that they have to do this horrible thing.

Now look I'll be honest with you guys obviously that's a very serious thing to discuss

and the movie deals with it but the movie adds of course a black comedy so a lot of the times

that you're going back and looking at some day's character it's through a comedical lens right

through some of this stuff is funny like there's one point where she goes

but shout out Sally you die first and it's like it's it's it's it's that's not something I mean

like it's like that's when that happens that's for it.

I mean I would say if you don't if you don't buy into this and this is like

God I think some of my problems with the criticism is I'm like

you have to buy into the fact that this is a comedy right yeah you are buying into this movie as

this is going to be a grand sweeping perfect statement about gun violence and violence in America

it's just like you're not it's like it really isn't the message of the movie at all.

Well that'll be the movie has no it's no the message is there it's not no I want you to I want you

to consider some things that are in the film right okay and I just all of the criticisms anytime

something's dealing with something this series all the criticisms are valid and you have to you

have to continue yes consider some things that are in the film number one when we're flashing back

to her as a young person her parents are never there yeah right but what is there the computer

no the gun the gun the gun is there yeah the gun is there the internet is there yeah she's completely

legitimately there is a scene where it's like here's $20 go get dinner yeah we see her father

later on he's never there she's doing all kinds of she's taking the gun out she injures herself

with the gun yes she's taking a gun out she's shooting it no one realizes the gun is going

whatever her parents are preoccupied with there's been a destabilizing event in her life she's

moved she's in a new place in Baton Rouge right she's moved she's in a new place she's being bullied

there's absolutely zero guidance there's zero community for her there's nothing for her other than

the ideas that she's making up in his head in her head I think the movie doesn't handle that

responsibly I'm not gonna say they're responsible about it in that they have a lot to say about it

but they do handle it seriously and that's that's where this movie to me is like kind of a work

of genius in that regard because it's the fact that this isn't from the perspective of Zendaya this

entire movie is from Robert Pattinson's perspective he is the guiding narrator like narrator and like

usher of this story his perception of his soon to be wife is completely dismantled by the fact that

this has been revealed to him and every time that he is speaking to her every time that he's

thinking about it it is brilliantly edited and brilliantly shot that all he sees is that troubled

teenager all he sees is this thing that he can't nail down and this thing that is constantly

shifting in his mind that to me when we see these things that are ultimately played for laughs

I think that's the balance of both the direction of what she is saying and the perspective that is

distorted from her husband and we never really get a full on like explanation from her because like

it's shot in like this little like staccato types of conversations like well I thought about doing

this it was because of that there's this one anecdote and he's like well was that the only reason

that you want to do this no there was more it's so many great things of nuance and I think the ultimate

message about the movie isn't the fact that like we are like stigmatizing the school shooter because

that's like a much bigger thing for it to do it's more about what are you entitled to know about

your partner and what do you think is growth enough for you to make you think that somebody has

changed and that really to me is like a brilliant balance that this movie achieves I think it's

even deeper than that I think the genius of the movie like I like if you just take it from a narrative

lens like the script it is very purposeful that the first time we see Robert Pattinson in Zendaya

Robert Pattinson lies to her lies about reading a book to get her on a date and when he the only

time he is going to admit that he's wrong is when he gets caught in the lie yeah so then when they play

the what's the worst thing you ever done game three of the examples are about violence that was

actually committed against another person a lot of Himes character locks a disabled like a

mentally challenged kid in a closet and leave them there and leave some there her boyfriend

she'll use his girlfriend as a human shield because he's afraid of getting attacked by a dog

Robert Pattinson admits that he was cyber bullying someone yeah the person that they're the most

mad at at the table is based on something that they actually didn't do and what I think is

interesting about that choice is like throughout the movie there are points where it's not about

just about Clayson right race they meet their they they see a D their DJ further wedding

child that DJ was so good smoking heroin allegedly allegedly allegedly and this like and from there

there's this sense of judgment of just like well what type of person is she now yeah and I think

like what I loved about the movie is I'm like it's a comedy of errors where it's like they're all

trying to punish Zendaya for something that she actually didn't do and something that she has said

actually I did the opposite I devoted my life to fight and gun violence I found people like I

start once I found these people that and my voice felt hurt I was like actually not only what I did

was wrong let me go the opposite way and still that's not enough and I was just like oh that is

like a thorny subject to get into but he I do think it is a very modern thing where it's like the

thought of violence is more punitive than actual violence happening well or is it quaint that there's

a false equivalence to that now I think like I thought the movie is fantastic I do have a question

and I was talking to somebody literally yesterday about this

today is black yes right but they don't it's not like the movie doesn't play with race that much

in like the thought process of the gun violence and all that stuff right they're going back

to watching her as a teenager right like it's got the beautiful irony of like her finding community

through like being like uh do the gun violence like which is which is I thought a genius with

what I was like really funny really well I skewed it but it never deals with the fact that she's

black and she's like she's had this experience did you guys like think that like when you think

about the movie is that something like that's weighing on your head because I know people who didn't

enjoy the movie because they were like why like why did the movie like a dress or like it was

irresponsibly handled so I responsibly handled but like if you're gonna cast sandea in this role

you don't just cast sandea in this cast sandea if you cast a black person

sure right you got to deal with the repercussions of there's a black person going to commit violence

against the good people how does the movie handle that or the movie should handle that well so

there are a couple of things that you can buy number one when we talked about one battle after another

I got deep into both on the big picture here and on higher learning and on my subset about

black woman revolutionaries black female revolutionaries and the tradition of black female

revolutionaries black women revolutionaries throughout history and the care we take of them

this is fantastical because that's something that black women don't do so black women are not your

school shooters they're not right okay black women are not your sources of mass violence they're not

they don't do that okay so this world whenever black women are portrayed on screen um we have to

continue with that portrayal particularly like I talked about with pta in the movie when a white

man wrote them when a white man wrote them a white man wrote them we have to ask questions about whether

or not the representation is being done with care because it's a black woman or a group that I am

I hope I mean I say this make myself say I'm like a fucking knight I hope to be able to protect

I hope to be able to at least endeavor into conversations around protecting them I want to see like

I'm the best thing in the world because I'm not uh in this situation I can tell that this movie was

written uh in uh in a raceless faction and then they cast a black lady to be in the lead now the

question is because like you cast a black woman in a situation a black woman do not do that black

women do not it there's nothing I when I was critiquing one battle after another I was saying hey

there's a tradition of black female revolutionaries that this movie to me not only subverts but belittles

and minimizes a little bit now if that's what you have to do with your character I've talked to a lot

of people some people involved in the movie I've talked to a lot of people and they're like hey we've

had the conversation Jamie Lawson came on I learned and spoke very eloquently about the fact that

sometimes we hold black creatives to too high of a standard when we're talking about this stuff

and we all let actors act writers right right and directors direct because we want positive

representation on all times I think there's a tension there that we have to deal with and talk

about as a community right um but I can understand her point of view and other people's point of

view that agree with her a lot of black creatives in the town agree with her a lot of them it's like we

said the other side overdue this I can see where they're coming from in this I just it just never

even occurred to me the people that it did occur to I think it is a phenomenal I've read great stuff

yeah I think it's it's something that we always have to discuss in this situation though

this movie doesn't seem like it exists in earth one this seems like like a European

uh a Europeans view on American culture right or Europeans take on American culture a movie that's

told in a style outside of American cinema yeah with this awkward weird off-kiltern narrative where

every single character is sort of a caricature and an archetype of something that somebody is

watching on television they're hovering just like slightly above realism right so so so to

me below you mean or below or above whatever um but not quite on the same line but so so for me

the only time that it ever occurred to me that the movie would make any critique or criticism at all

on critique or conversation at all on race is that perhaps the reason why she's getting bullied

is because she's black right and she's in the south and if that's something then that's a completely

different so I actually think the genius of the movie and I don't know if it's intentional

is the fact that you cast someone like Zen Dea because there's been a large conversation about

I think Zen Dea might have said this in the past that she chooses parts or goes out for parts that

might have been written for white women right she always kisses them on white men so what I think

is actually genius is like it I mean look at our passes track I'm just saying so like it's

what that to me is actually the genius of the movie if you think about it where it's like okay there's

written by a European it's based in Boston about a British man dating a half black half white woman

and this woman is now in a society in a bubble in Boston where and this happens a lot in white

spaces where you're one of the good ones you're so beautiful your light skin oh you have the right

job in the right husband and the minute that she does something that this liberal bubble does not

like she's like okay we can't but she forberates that too when she sees their homegirls and that to

me is the genius similarly when a lot of I'm is like do I always like you grew up with guns right

you were a grouper on gun violence is like no I did not and I'm like here's the thing I'm not saying

that this movie is great with race I'm actually saying that because it is written from Robert

Pattinson's point of view yes part of the comedy is the fact that it's like this is a man that's

about to date a black woman that has never actually interrogated her as a black woman he was

she was a fantasy to him yeah and it's like earlier in the film when he's like I haven't seen

that photo of you and she looked she doesn't look like Zendaya she she's a kid she looks different

and I'm like oh no that is saying a lot that there's a version of even herself is a young black

woman that she didn't want to share with her husband she didn't want her husband yeah to see that

version of her well you know what's interesting it's like for for a lot of people right there's a

version of yourself that sort of dies when you become the older version of you sure right the question

is like and this is a question that's really for black people like to me it's asked more of black

youth than it is if anyone else the question is whether or not other people will let it die

because like you staying out late smoking weed doing all that stuff doing stuff that kids do making

mistakes that kids make like one of my things that I always looked at when I was a kid and even as a

man was like yo the mistakes that my homies made when they were 15 16 17 years old they became

eternal mistakes yeah they became mistakes that plunged them into systems that they didn't

could not escape that put them in as they say in heat gladiators academies like Jetson and places

like that where they go and just learn how to be worse for survival what I knew doves I'm like I was

in the get the program with the white boys I knew white boys doing coke at 13 like you know I'm

saying I knew I knew people going fucking crazy stealing their parents cars crashing the fucking

cars beating people up weird sex stuff all of that very young and then by the time you meet them

when they're 21 or 22 yeah I just finish my second year studying abroad I'm like I'm happy you're

alive doc yeah you that you came through it meanwhile the guys that I know that got caught with a

little bit of shit on them that fucked them forever so I think the the movie when you took when you

look at a line of hams character uh hams hams hams hams hams hams hams hams hams hams hams

Shout to Daniel who I had the Tommy Alter. We all had drinks together. Me, her and Dylan O'Brien in New York.

A Tommy Alter night.

Lovely.

It's like, um, when you look at her character, she is the only character in the movie and her and my beloved Misha.

She is the own, uh, Misha.

I love me a Misha.

Mm hmm.

What do you think about that?

No, I'm not.

What'd that be?

I love me a Misha.

I love me a Misha.

It's just us right now.

What's the, as soon as Misha was explaining what was going on that antennas was going up,

I'm like, that's what it was right there.

Yeah, yeah.

Misha turned around. She flipped that skirt.

She folded so quick.

That's what the fuck I'm talking about.

That's the best thing.

Man, I'm talking about what ever is wrongly.

I went check Mr. Scan immediately.

Oh my goodness.

Like, that's the best scene in years.

Misha folded immediately.

Misha was like, she was doing this.

When she was doing this,

right.

Go see the drama just for that scene.

Misha was like, okay, this is going down.

Let's have, let's fucking party.

Oh my god.

I don't think that was how we were supposed to know.

That's how I was.

And how are we supposed to read the scene?

I don't know.

I'm not a client.

He tries to kiss her.

She was bossed by the way.

It's her boss by the way.

Hold on, hold on guys.

Uh, we got to do the goddamn Misha,

the whole purpose of the scene before where he's talking to her.

Yeah.

The whole purpose of that scene to me,

the whole, see, I had my brain just like,

the whole purpose of the scene before, in my opinion,

was to show that a lot of times she makes decisions

like on a whim, right, that she doesn't quite think

of the consequences of the decision.

And she'll make that type of decision.

Okay.

That gets stuck in his brain

then they go to do what they do.

And she's down because she sometimes

doesn't think about what happens after,

which to me is something that the movie deals with as well.

A lot of people who don't think about the entirety

of the larger picture,

because they're stuck and focused on what just happened to them.

Like what just or what is happening to them?

Right.

Like, or what, like, think about the thing that he was,

what's the thing that Robert Pattinson's character

was thinking about the most in the movie

before he gets caught up in being reacted?

What's the thing that he was the most dealing with?

Just the speech.

The speech. Yeah, speech.

The speech, the speech was him trying to have intention

behind his relay. It was something that he was,

he didn't know how to say what he was saying,

but he knew that he wanted to say the movie then flips that.

He doesn't know how to get rid of something.

Yeah.

He doesn't know how to deal with something.

There's something that he wanted to do before.

And he was desperately trying to figure out

how to do it in the most loving way.

Now there's something that he doesn't want

and he doesn't know how to deal with it.

Like every other character is hovering around that.

Like a lot of time is one note

because she just is super mad, super triggered.

Misha is one note just because it just seems like things

happen to her and she reacts to those things

when I'm thinking of them.

Even when she tells the guy, the guy,

she knows the guy's fucking crazy.

The guy's gonna go beat him up.

None of this stuff seems like she walks to the room

right away, doesn't allow the room to happen

to her, she happens to the room.

She walks into the room right away and goes,

he kissed me.

Doesn't even know if the fuck is going on.

Yeah, that was funnest, right?

And like that's a consistent character,

even though the character doesn't have a ton of dimension.

This and their character is insanely complex.

Like ridiculously complex.

Like she played it, and she played it incredible too.

I want to go back to the Misha and Raya Pansen scene

because I think actually,

I want to go back to it too.

Let me see this for some of you.

All right.

I think actually what that scene to me is about

is like it is showing the cowardice,

not only of Robert Pattinson and Misha,

but like their couple of friends or whatever,

where it's like, Zendaya is not a,

like her character, Emma is not a perfect character,

but she's actually the only one who was telling her truth.

People just don't like it.

It's not enough.

They keep punishing her.

And the thing that she's trying to get Robert Pattinson

or a lot of hype or Misha,

all these people to be like,

hey, all of you guys are unwilling

to have an actual conversation.

When she's having that conversation with Robert Pattinson,

she's so unhappy with her boyfriend at that time

who's the nice guy,

that instead of just being like,

I want to break up, something's not right.

She goes and cheats with someone who treats her like shit

because then it's the impetus.

And then what I think the genius of the scene is,

is that Robert Pattinson internalizes that

and it's like, instead of having a real conversation

with my soon to be wife,

if I cheat, that will give me a reason

where I don't have to actually talk about the real issue,

I cheated, I don't have to tell you anymore.

But at the same time,

the conflict is he catches himself.

And when he catches himself,

what's the first thing that she says to him?

That's the day I says to him?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Misha says to him.

What does Misha say to him after?

Oh, it's fine.

No, she goes, you ripped my shirt.

Oh yeah, I can't buy her a shirt.

She's like, she ripped my shirt like, God damn,

that was intense.

There's no, she doesn't contend with the weight

of what just happened at all.

Right.

There's no, oh my God, how could you?

It's just very matter of fact.

And the movie is kind of dealing with,

I mean, outside of that scene,

what should be matter of fact?

Do you treat someone saying something,

like Zendaya said, matter of factfully,

do you go just God damn and have a couple of drinks about it?

Or is that something that's so profound?

Like what is profound?

Is love profound?

Is the amount of harm that you can do profound?

Because also in the scene where they're all talking,

if you notice, until it gets to Robert Pattinson,

everything is an escalation.

He says something and you go, that's pretty fucked up.

But then she does something that if we didn't talk about

if there was no school shooting,

would have been the worst thing for the first.

And you can see like, and this is why I think like,

you know, you argue all the days of the week,

but I think Zendaya is one of our best young actresses.

But not all of them.

She is freaking out once this narrative that Zendaya

cannot fucking act like,

I don't understand.

You can fucking say that.

I don't get it.

It's like, that's why I need to get on my fucking nerves.

Because it's like, it's like, or that she is,

she's to me.

Like she plays the same thing every time.

Or she's like, one of those.

No, that's not true, though.

No, that is true.

Like she plays a brooding and then cutesy young teenager

and spider-man, then she comes back and legitimately plays

with dazzling accuracy.

An indigenous warrior woman in Dune,

did she plays this role, then there's Rue and Euphoria?

I don't know that I've ever seen Zendaya bad

and something.

And I think the range is actually phenomenal.

I don't think her.

Right.

What I think people are actually talking about is like,

to me a lot of her performances aren't actually that showy.

Where it's like people like, she's always in there.

I'm like, no, no, no, she's different characters.

But it's like, it's a less showy performance.

Robert Pattinson, for a lot of this movie,

is the character that's like, he's sweating through it.

He's over there.

He's over there.

He's flailing around.

And I'm like, I'll be honest, this is my hot take.

I was just like, oh, this movie actually does not work.

If you do not have Robert Pattinson and Zendaya

as the A-listers, because I'm like, oh,

they paper over a lot of just like,

the wilder kind of just like, what the fuck is happening

in this movie because you're just like, oh,

their starw

there's a way.

We have to talk about it.

But here's the thing, we are going to have to talk about it.

I'm not letting your maid of honor come up here.

No no no zeggen

Out of the question it's put too much stock in our maiden's of honor like this is a fuckin

We need a man we need to ban speech is it weddings first of all no no no no

You can't get rid of that shit. It's always too long. It's never that great. I don't know what I'm murder mine

I did one too. It was okay at best.

But the bonders are sometimes the biggest ops.

No joke for real.

I bet you everybody knows one made of honor

that fucked up parts of the wedding.

I'm just telling you something right now.

Y'all speaking on women's issues.

Okay, all right.

I'm just saying y'all gotta meal with me.

You want me to be real?

You want me to be real?

So a lot of guests up.

This is how she's been feeling the whole time.

She's like, hey, yo, she asked me to be in made of her.

I was kinda like, hey, yo, you don't got any friends.

Now what I think is I'm just like, hey, yo,

you was the Queen's and Dan walks through.

She looking good.

Yo, she's like, damn, you know what?

I always hated you.

And I'm like, hey, in my opinion,

I'm like, a lot of you a coward, Mike you a coward.

Yeah.

And what it like to be all a coward.

You been hating on a black woman,

like in the back, here's the thing.

I think Alana is her fault.

She escalated the whole shit.

Zendaya did do it.

Did I do it?

Wait, did you?

Did you?

She was a mentally challenged kid in a closet.

So I'm freaking out.

Light about it.

A city wide search happened for him.

And he was like, huh?

You're actually a sociable.

So we should say something here.

Well, everything that you guys are saying is true.

Everything.

However, the reason why she didn't do it

is because somebody already did.

She didn't, Zendaya did not.

So and the movie, Zendaya's character,

did not absolve her.

Decide to not do it because of whatever.

She decided it already happens

and then she seized the ramifications.

Yeah.

Right.

So she could have not responded to those ramifications

and still done it.

What is luck that it didn't happen?

Yeah, but it's also actual development

that she chose to do it.

It's actual not to it.

It's actual not to it.

She was empathetic enough.

Yeah.

Because a lot of people would have not done that.

A lot of people would have been like,

and fuck it, somebody beat me too.

And we just gonna have to come back in a couple of days.

That's fair.

It's, there was empathy inside of her

that was able to see what people were going through

and she responded to that.

And that actually, because that's actually

also how she made friends.

Yeah.

She made friends because everybody was grieving

at the same time.

But let me, like if we go back to the script though

and we go back to the initial,

what's the worst thing you've ever done?

It is very interesting that the three people

who are not Zendaya, right?

They tell a version of a story where Mike is like,

instead of me getting her,

I threw a woman in front of me to take the front of it.

We go to a Lana's character and she is like,

I saw a boy that was different from me

and I locked him in a closet and I lied on him

and I never faced consequences.

And then Robert Pattinson is like,

I cyberbullied a guy so bad he might have had to move.

All three of those things,

are issues that when we talk about like school shootings,

why do they happen in this country?

Not just because we are a country

that is addicted to gun culture and violence.

A lot of times I'm just like,

we do not know how to talk with children,

protect them from bullying,

make marginalized people feel seen, all of these things.

And I'm like, I do think it's interesting that

all three of them cannot see their own role

in perpetuating a violent culture.

They just look at,

Zendai, be like, your psychopath,

you're one of the bad ones, your other,

we don't want to associate with you anymore.

Well, the Mike and Rachel stories are actually interesting

because Rachel does something,

doesn't take responsibility and stands like,

like yeah, I did it whatever,

but nothing matters like it's cool.

When she's at the wedding, she's acting like it's like,

it's all gravy, right?

I'm gonna say, take the high road,

despite the fact that you've been acting terrible

this whole time.

Mike literally went behind his then girlfriend

while she was getting attacked by a dog and stood behind her

and didn't take any of that of any of the attacks on the dog.

That's what he does in the movie.

Mike just stands behind Rachel.

Let's do all this stuff and he's just like,

yup, that's you.

Like those like, again, to the juice of the rotting,

those stories like infer how these characters

throughout the movie go about their business

in dealing with what Zendaya has told them.

I think it's just like a really like real struggling genius

from the writer to movie.

So the end of the movie, first of all,

just before I get to that,

the filmmaking here to me is top notch.

It's incredible.

It's great.

Like, totally the movie does not let you breathe.

It doesn't let you breathe.

Every single scene is an exploration

of the deepening rift between these two characters

and the trauma that everybody is going through.

Every single scene.

There's a shot that it's like,

I think it was like when they actually have the conversation

the morning after and he asks,

he asks Zendaya something and she's like sat alone

on the couch and he's across from her.

And it like, it's the shot of Zendaya

cut back to Robert Pattinson.

He asks the question,

the cut back to Zendaya is her as a teenager in her home

and Zendaya's voice is answering as that teenage self.

I'm like, this is some God-level filmmaking.

Because he's showing you.

Yeah.

He's not, he's doing it,

but he's showing how he's perceiving his world.

Exactly.

And everything that he's looking at,

but he's also showing you just how much is on his mind.

Then he gets to a point to where he's just in defense mode

of her.

And because he can't really reconcile how to both defend

who she is and come to terms with what she actually didn't do,

that's what sends him down the deep end.

And then at the end of the movie,

after he's beaten up,

we get a physical manifestation of how he's been feeling emotionally.

Him just battered Bruce at the end of his rope.

Her completely by herself,

legitimately in a North Face,

also in her wedding dress,

like both of them and then they start over.

But they start over in brutal, ugly, complete, illuminating truth.

Yeah.

I love this.

They start, when they start over,

they start over now,

because remember, the beginning of their relationship is a lie.

Yeah.

Because he legitimately,

and when you talk about developing like a little sociopathy right there,

he legitimately doesn't just lie.

He goes and takes a picture of a book,

the whole deal, a little bit off there.

That beginning of their relationship,

as genuine as it was,

wasn't really grounded in who they actually were.

It was conniving on this part.

And so the end of it,

they get through all of this stuff,

now they're married,

now they actually have a chance.

Now they have a shot,

because they've dealt with the ugliness of one another.

So I, I'll read it so I don't get anything wrong,

because I want to ask about this.

This is Hollywood reporter,

the drama director,

Christopher Boerzlies,

2012 essay on his age gap romance resurfaces,

sparking controversy,

essentially a bunch of people on Reddit,

resurfaced in essay,

where he wrote about an age gap romance that he had in his 20s

with a woman that was a teen.

Hello.

Let's see.

The piece were in by Boerzly himself,

then 27 reflects on a recent relationship he had with a teenage girl,

the scans which are not widely available online

have begun to circulate

and have been translated by users.

So I haven't read the scans,

but this has been popping up,

where people are like,

I think rightfully so,

being like a movie that is,

I think the subtext of it is about cancel culture,

being written by potentially someone who has done something

that people should frown upon.

And I think it's like an interesting,

I found the whole conversation around this interesting

because we are getting to a point

where it's like the PTA shit popped up

when we were talking about one battle after another,

where it's like,

what responsibility do these directors have,

male directors,

when they're getting into these topics,

whether it's cancel culture,

whether it's mass violence,

whether it is putting women in especially black women,

in positions where it's like,

hey, yo, to your point,

I might not agree with all the criticism of this movie,

but I can understand where the iron comes from.

Right.

Obviously I can understand where the iron comes from.

If anyone thinks that you are writing a movie,

or producing a movie to explain or gloss over something

that you did that they are in disagreement with,

right, they're gonna examine the movie in a different way.

Far as what the fuck he was on in 2012

or what the fuck he had going on in,

I think all of that type of stuff,

in my opinion, is up for conversation, debate,

and exploration is to like,

what kind of society we wanna be.

Cancer culture, being whatever,

however whatever term people wanna use,

we have to be brutally in conversation

with each other about our expectations

because we live in a society and we share.

Right.

And we share this society,

and it's not just the way you look at it,

it's not just the way I look at it, it's the way we look at it.

So there's never gonna be a time

where we're not gonna have conversations

on what we feel safety, consent,

or appropriate actions by growing men are.

So there's no canceling in that.

What that is is responsibility of adults

of protecting children, and also,

in setting terms and expectations

for how it is that we're going to act.

That's always gonna happen.

I know that this movie to me is as much about cancel culture.

I think this movie, in my opinion,

is not about whether or not this person was canceled.

I mean, if somebody told me that,

if one of you guys told me that,

I would be concerned.

It's not, and we can just spread it all out.

And then like, no, but you have to understand,

I'm also not going to bet with any of you.

So like, so like, I would,

it's something that you want to explore.

I think the movie to me is what responsible exploration

of somebody else's past looks like.

Like, how do you do that in a way that maintains

love, respect, empathy, and concern

for other people's experiences?

And we have to do that.

We have to, we have to do that when people

have even made mistakes, which is a difficult conversation.

I swear that that's hard.

I don't want to boil down like,

the drama is about cancel culture.

I think when you think about who these characters are,

how much money they make, the type of apartment they live in.

They are in a, they are very,

what we would call liberal people.

And they are having conversations about to your point,

how much grace do you give someone?

How much understanding do you give someone?

Are you listening to them?

Are you empathetic?

If some, if you realize that what Zendaya was about to do

was a detrocious act, even being in that frame of mind.

Dangerous.

Is something that we don't like to think about.

Right.

But none of the characters can provide her with any space

to be like, hey, I want to understand how you got there

and what's made you different.

Maybe I obviously don't fuck with it.

But I'm trying to literally do what we all want,

which is like treat you like a nuanced human

that can all fall for you.

But that doesn't grow.

Because if we're being real,

when she tells that story, no harm has actually happened

to anyone, all of the harm is in the fact that like,

hey, you got to a dark place where you were going to do something

truly important in evil.

That makes me look at you different.

Yeah.

They weren't having that conversation.

They were like, you're an evil person,

you're a psychopath, we need to get our friend away from you.

And that's how I think a lot of disagreements happened

in the 21st century, which is like, there's no understanding.

It's your, right?

But that's why the council court is thinking,

that's why people have logged on to that conversation so much,

to especially with Rachel, like she's also done a bad,

she actually did a bad thing,

but is like holding herself as superior to her.

Right?

That's where I've used on for it.

Why can't you?

Exactly.

It's a level of, well, you almost did this thing.

You like canceled the wedding this,

I'm not gonna be your maid of water,

this and this switch in which,

but like you also did a bad thing.

Like is there no empathy?

Is there no like, hey, like there's no understanding here.

It's like, you've done, you thought about doing something bad.

I'm better than you.

That's the thing that people are,

when people see that,

the first thing they think of online council culture.

And there's also something else about the distinction

between those two characters.

And we do gotta go, but there's something else,

distinction between those two characters.

One person,

one person actioned themselves out of their thoughts.

Not only did one person help,

in a way help themselves accountable.

Not only did Zendaya's character

not go through with what she went through with.

She actually became the opposite of that.

She actually became someone who,

whether it was because it was convenient for her

with her schoolmates,

or whether it was because she really did some

like deep investigation into who she was,

or whether it's because she saw the results

of what a community goes through

with something like that happens.

She saw the pain.

She actually came out on the other side of it,

like a better person.

She found community.

Like she became a better person.

A lot of a haemes character,

haimed, a lot of haimes character, never did.

No, she actually skirted any type of consequence

for what happened,

which is why she was unevolved,

which is why throughout the movie,

she just continuously gets worse.

Exactly.

Because in the situation that we are discussing

that we are talking about,

she actually escapes doing something pretty fucked up

with nothing ever happening to her.

Whereas for Zendaya's character,

she doesn't directly suffer consequences,

but she shares in the pain of everyone around

having watching this happen.

So she has to get out of it through doing stuff.

She has to become the other side of what she was.

And that's the person that they know.

But do you think,

and I think it's the question that we have.

I've been constantly asking since the beginning of time,

do you actually want to provide a person

with the opportunity to give back?

Like if you change the characters,

like let's say this was about race,

if you have a friend that has done something racist,

do you want them to have the chance to be like,

how do I give back to the community?

How do I learn?

How do I change?

Or do you want to do the easier thing,

which is like, your racist, I never want to talk to you.

Get the fuck up out of my face.

The answer to that question is very simple, is we used to.

And the only reason why we used to,

it's not that people were better than,

the only reason why we used to is because

there wasn't a constant reminder of it.

Right.

So that's the, it's like,

it's an indication of information,

like the internet, etc.

And then you should just not happen after that.

Like they used to, something happened, it was terrible.

It was bad.

And that's good and bad, right?

Because there are also people who have done really heinous things

who have just been able to skate on the fact

that the next record they put out,

the next box and match that they won,

the next election that they won,

kind of washed over that terrible thing that they did.

Right.

Now, those things exist in perpetuity.

You have the video, you have the account of the accuser,

it has a place that it can live.

You can go watch it every single time.

You have the terrible thing that the person that they did,

it's a tweet, it's right there, it's static.

It becomes its own little Bible.

So you can read any time you want.

And it re-informed you on who the person is

and it makes you re-investigate everything that they've ever said.

Like, which version of them is the real them?

So the quick, it's just harder now,

but it takes effort.

And they don't want to give Zendaya,

like Zendaya has actually put in the effort.

I'm not saying she was perfect,

but I do think that's what I thought the genius of the movie was,

was like showing that I'm like,

it's never going to be enough,

maybe for anyone who is not her husband.

Her husband is giving her the chance to be like, actually,

I realize how terrible the person I am,

and I want understanding,

and I want someone to deliver some empathy to me.

And sometimes that might be all you get,

where it's like you only might have one or two people in your life

who is like, actually, I want to see if you can change and grow.

And I want to support you versus like the a lot or a might character

who are just like, hey, you're not one of,

you're not one of the good people anymore.

You're dead to me.

And it's also the perfect like lesson for a student to be married person

is like, hey, if you need,

if you're going to be my husband,

if you're going to be my wife, you've got to know

that the bad things about me are things that you have to deal with.

Midnight meter.

What do you got?

Or actually, you do.

Midnight meter, y'all know what it is.

One to 12, one being the worst, 11 to 12,

reserve for game changers.

Right now we might go up.

I'm going to give this one the most solid of eights that I can give it.

Fantastic.

It's a nine for me.

Oh, God.

Almost a 10.

Nine for me too.

Nine for me too.

Almost a 10.

Almost a 10.

Yeah.

Almost a 10.

And we got midnight Mulligan's.

We got midnight Mulligan's.

We'll see.

Almost a 10.

Also, this movie makes us money.

Like, it's a money.

It's doing good.

What do you think Michael Jackson movie higher or lower than Michael Jackson?

I'll make a console.

Yeah.

All right, that's a wrap.

I program my hundreds on Friday,

but match discusses Prach Mata and mouse PI for hire.

I'm Thursday the house of art.

Does it mid season check in with Derek devil?

I produce today are Jamie Eukich, Devin Buroldi.

Jamie dinner on our socials and additional production from Arjuno Ram Gopal.

Check, take a look.

The boys is heating up.

We're sorry, y'all, that we ran out of time.

And after seeing the drama, I'm sorry, but it's a lot of hype.