The Mosquito Coast with Sean Fennessey
2026-04-19 04:00:00 • 3:06:21
One I had believed in father and the podcast had seemed small and old.
I was afraid to love him anymore.
I was not like a Griffin better do this.
No, last line of the film.
Now, I will say the tagline for this film is extraordinary.
I think it's actually one of the best haggling ever.
It's a good tagline.
It's a good poster.
It's a very interesting, very intriguing.
Tell me the tagline.
The tagline is this kosher be biting.
As I said, one of the best haggleines ever.
Itchy.
Ready to hear us in Ford.
This summer is getting itchy.
Grats, Grats.
No, he's this.
The tagline is how far should a man go to find his dream?
Ali Fox went to the mosquito coast.
Line break.
He went too far.
That fucking rules.
Just to see this poster where you're like, here's Harrison Ford.
Arguably the biggest movie star of that moment.
There's an article I read when this film came out and people were pushing back against it,
where they called out that Harrison Ford starred in more of the highest grossing films than any other star in a history.
Not just at that moment.
He had a greater percentage of the all time top 10, but no one had ever dominated an all time top 10 to that degree.
And this poster is just Harrison Ford looking not great.
I mean, he looks how it's held.
He looks all right.
But the point is, yeah, wearing glasses.
It looks concerned.
This is the guy who's unflappable.
And the poster is, he looks a little out of sorts.
And he looks rugged.
And then the tagline's telling you, this guy fucked up.
This movie should have made $8 trillion off the pitch of Harrison Ford fucks up.
There's no world where this movie makes it truly interesting.
No, this movie is designed to make people angry.
I had never seen before.
I love this movie so much.
Yes.
Well, this is a real great movie.
This is Sean.
I think you and I are going to bond on a lot of things.
I think this movie is great to be clear.
I don't, it's not like I'm contrairian.
Are you both?
Have you met this guy?
Yeah, this is, this is the way you like I caught it.
The way that Sean and I, the answer is yes.
The way you've linked that Sean and I share.
Ben text us this morning and said this movie.
Let me find the exact one.
I believe it was this movie is anti-smile.
Anti-smile.
It's true.
It's true.
I mean, I thought of this when you were describing the tagline.
If the poster featured Harrison Ford smiling rather than that being used kind of half-grim
of the non-swears.
The movie have been ahead.
No, there was no more.
No, there was no more.
There was a more like the rye sarcastic charm.
It would have, if we're just talking poster in the movie, it's changed.
Maybe it makes a little bit more.
It would have opened better and people would have been angry.
There were exes over his eyes.
So we know from the start that this motherfucker dies.
Oh, it's what we're what three minutes in.
We spoiled the film.
Goddamn.
Ben's quote, our finance film critic Ben Hossley.
Goddamn this movie, unnasty bastard.
That's true.
And David said it's not a feel good film.
Maybe don't move to the mosquito coast
and Ben texted its anti-smile.
I truly would never, not even for Harrison Ford.
Now my opinion is,
that doesn't make it any less true a film, Ben.
There are so many articles from the release of this film
that are fascinating, where there are like notoriously
press shy, Harrison Ford has pounded the pavement for the movie.
He knows this one needs salad.
Like, yeah, this isn't exactly a like,
we go to the coast and you'll have to find out
what happens next.
And Leo, do it one better.
And he didn't want to like,
what?
Why is Leo doing TikTok videos?
He's Leo on the big picture, swabbing it.
He didn't want to miss salad.
He didn't want to trick people.
But he was like, this is a tougher film.
I'm hoping I built up the credibility with my audiences.
And then when the movie comes out
and he's like, critics savaged it.
And he felt betrayed by the critic.
Yeah, he was mad that it didn't get a fair shake from them.
He was like, I thought you guys might at least get it.
And then he felt like they were saying,
like, I'm not by and on solo doing this.
And he was like, this is a movie that needed you.
And it's a challenging movie.
And you're all going like, how dare he try this?
But the interesting fact when they're talking about,
at the time they said it was the only movie he made
that didn't make back its money.
He says that, yes.
He says that.
Which means it must have, like, right,
not even succeeded on home video or whatever.
Even by the mid-90s, he still says
it is the only movie I started that didn't make back.
It's not like frantic was, you know, cleaning up.
No, like it did pretty good business.
Yeah.
It was just much more conventional.
It's more of a thrill.
Like straight forward thriller.
And he's going out there and he's defending it.
And in this article from the Hollywood reporter,
they say that it got a B minus cinema score.
So you're like, it's not like the people who saw it
hated it as much as no one wanted to see it.
If they put B minus cinema scores really bad.
That's bad.
That's not.
I'm not saying it's good.
But I'm saying, if you put a smiling Harrison Ford face
on the poster, this movie gets F.
Should we do the 1986 episode of the big picture
where the mosquito coast has just come out
and it's got made $1.8 million.
And it's got a B minus score.
We're like, okay, I'm like, God dammit.
This is why we can't have nice things.
No original storytelling, no literate adaptations
of thoughtful men exploring the world.
I think it's not even that, Sean.
I think it's you and your quiet focused mode going,
I just need to accept that VHS has arrived
and so much not what he used to be.
So I just want to shout out.
Well, what's our podcast?
Who's our guest?
And I want to say something.
This is blank check with Garfin and David.
I'm Garfin.
I did.
It's a podcast about homographies, directors
who have massive success early on in their careers.
And our given a series of blank checks
to make whatever crazy passion projects they want.
And sometimes those checks clear.
And sometimes they use the checks to buy a town
and rebuild civilization from scratch.
And try to make a ice machine.
Good.
The size of a house.
Ideas.
Oh, I hate that.
Jungle good ideas.
This is a many series on the films of Peter Worm.
And when a malicious shows up, they're like,
it's okay, I'll trick that.
I think that's big.
I bet these guys are afraid of ants.
Allie Fox did nothing.
Oh, wait a second.
Wait a second.
What I love about this movie is not that much.
Yeah, what I love about this movie is that Allie Fox
is one of the most fundamentally broken
for time and again.
You like it because it's a peer into the soul
not because you're like taking note.
No, although I want to explore.
If there is any goodness in his ideas, it's a
well, it's more like what's the temptation, I guess, right?
Like, yeah, like the temptation of the goodness.
Yeah, I obviously like what is there?
Eomaniac, narcissist, but I think getting older,
a couple of things, a couple of things are sparking.
I kind of feel like his analysis is correct
and all of his actions were wrong.
If that makes sense.
Yeah, well, maybe I'm painting too broad a brain.
Yeah, it's too soon to go to this place.
It's too soon to go to this place.
We're gonna get there.
I promise you we're gonna get there.
David, what did you want to say?
It's the mesure on the film's thing.
A Peter Rear, it's called Podnik at Hinging Cat.
As I didn't know that.
Today we were talking about what is this first proper
blank check movie?
Certainly his first Hollywood blank check.
Sure.
The success of witness is immediately rolled into.
I'm tying myself to Harrison Ford.
It's the passion project I couldn't get made right before
a whiznit witness.
I can now get made.
Successive witness movie star plus the, you know,
building credibility of his Australian films,
which had almost gotten the movie made before.
I'll put together to make a very tough movie about
an unlikable person doing something largely negative
and unsuccessful, I guess.
And the movie ends with like, yeah, that didn't work out.
You know, like, which is, yeah, not something
you can easily pitch in a boardroom.
What did you want to say?
Sean Fantasis, our guest.
The great Sean Fantasis from the big picture.
And our friend, excuse me.
I know, but I'm so happy to be here for a podnic podnic.
That's good.
Now I wanted podster and cast man
or the pod side of the cast.
How many times are you gonna bring this up?
Every episode basically.
And David said, podnic is the funniest word I've ever heard.
Which I think is funny.
Well, that explains it.
It is, however, I do think there was a case for podless.
Yeah, but you see, this is, there's a,
there's a, to me, a fine balance between two short,
which what you're doing and kind of like the joke
is just the link.
I said, let's go as hard as we can.
We're rarely gonna get an opportunity
to put in two pods and two casts.
I don't like it.
I think it doesn't roll off any tongues.
I also don't like that Mastering Commander has a subtitle.
I think that's a huge mistake.
What about that movie?
Well, they're building a pod.
The pods have become battlefields.
Yeah, but then, okay, well,
that's why he's pulling rules out the window.
Right, you know, that's right.
We can say that.
That's what it was at the live show.
It was, it was blank check in the big picture.
And we were on the pod battle.
We were in the best, so okay.
So that's what I wanted to talk about.
Okay.
We did a live show with you guys,
where we did it's my soul.
By the time this comes right.
Right.
You can watch it.
Sure.
And we did a draft and we wisely did New York movies
and played to the crowd, all that.
But if the initial plan before it was gonna be a live show.
Yes.
had been that we were gonna do 1986 films.
In which this is, oh, interesting.
That's what I'm saying.
Okay.
And that's my birth year, but it was also basically
like one of the, one of the, like,
the available years.
One of the last ones.
Exactly.
One of the last big ones that we haven't done yet.
And so I was like, hell yeah, 1986.
I think I watched 30 movies from 1986.
Sure.
Like to prepare for this draft that did not happen.
No, no, we may do it eventually.
We had the New York idea and you got upset
because you said I've already been grinding.
Oh, deep.
Well, in 1986.
We planned to do, I would love to do a draft.
Yeah.
Every year for as long as we possibly can.
I love the year drafts because I like the scarcity.
Like I find that the best format
because like in terms of the game'smanship,
it's the most interesting.
New York drafts is the opposite sort of game's issue
where it's like pick of the letter.
There's a million movies.
What root do you take, right?
Like I'd say, you know,
but 86 was going to be recorded in New York
was always going to be live.
So I said, you guys don't come to the live show.
Exactly.
But you're right.
86 is a really fun year.
And when does mosquito go?
When does mosquito go?
When does mosquito go?
I would get my go, but it would be a later.
Would you draft it in drama?
Well, it ain't a con.
I haven't prepared for 86.
I guess no spoilers for future drafts.
No comedy, no Oscar wins.
Not a blockbuster.
So yeah, it's only a couple spots it goes.
I mean, you could sort of call it a thriller.
It's a kind of a life card
or if you did an attempted rebuilding civilization
from scratch category,
I think it would definitely go there.
I might draft it.
It's very possible.
I have a lot of affection for some of you.
This is a Sean movie.
Not that it's not at anyone else's movie,
but it's definitely a Sean movie.
Yeah, it's not.
It is deeply imperfect.
And then I understand.
I understand exactly what you mean.
It is an anti-smile movie.
I love an anti-smile movie.
I love a movie that is essentially a confrontation
with something that is under the surface of human existence,
which is we are fucked.
We are so fucked.
So with you here.
And this movie makes me want to punch it in the face.
I think it kind of wants that, right?
That's the point.
I think it does want that.
And what the author of this book,
how he feels about Allie Fox 2,
I think is an interesting part of this
and why the filmmaker is interested,
why Ford famously took a curmudgeon
with a bit of a down look on society,
the world, his own success,
is all really fat.
All these smart, thoughtful guys arriving at this project
is interesting.
It's very interesting.
Ben, you often say when we cover movies,
in which someone finds a bag full of money
and their life spirals out of control,
like many of the co-in films we've covered recently,
that if you were in that movie,
everything would turn out great
and it would end with you owning an island.
Now, how do you think you would have handled
the circumstances of mosquito coasters?
I know they're different
because you're not given the money in the first place,
but the design is almost the same.
It would burn down a medium.
Okay.
The town would be burnt in the city.
You're not.
You're not municipal.
It's like that's not your direction.
You were in mosquito coasters,
would have gone worse.
Yes, I would smoke one cigarette
and then it would just go up and flake.
Yeah.
And then it'd be like,
all right, let's get out of here.
But you're also, you're not an ideologue.
Like if you meet Spolding Grey,
I mean, not Spolding Grey, not Spolding Grey.
Spolding Grey is the number of you
I watched recently for Sean's podcast.
Challenge fields.
Or no, different ones.
Well, he isn't the killing field.
No, no Star Wars bars.
No Star Wars bars.
The Forgotten Day, No Day Lewis.
Oh, wild.
Is only pure comedy.
Yeah, giving a performance,
I might describe as a touch broad.
Just a fair to say.
Yeah.
He's a horny Southern judge.
Classic Spolding Grey type casting.
Yeah.
Well, Daniel DeLos is like,
Oh, look at this whole performance.
Yeah.
Yeah, it is Daniel DeLos trying to be Hugh Grant in,
what, I don't even know what the,
in my cousin Vinnie,
but that's essentially the framework.
Yeah.
You said Doc Holley,
well, my logger.
And he'd make he blue eyes and so on.
It does feel like,
but Daniel DeLos does Star some bars.
There's probably a hat didn't work.
And then sees Hugh Grant's early.
And it's like, right, that's not that's not
spring to my bow.
Right.
He's got it.
Anyway, yeah, you would meet Andre Gregory, the priest.
And you'd be like, yeah, you seem like,
you can run things like, yeah,
I don't want to be in charge here.
Like, right, like, yeah,
you got some ideas.
I feel like you,
this is a thing that's been replicated before
in other places.
Where's Ali is going to go off?
But then you are a false god.
But Ali just sees,
he's like a stop sign.
He's like, I won't stop.
That's just his vibe.
This country used to go.
It's fine.
Can't run my life.
Then would you kneel before God though?
No, I mean,
God used to kneel before America.
I am not religious at all.
Because that's what Andre Gregory wants, right?
He wants you to bend the knee to him and to
just like, I just feel like Ben just wouldn't have the
wear like the sort of energy to be like,
you know, fuck you, man.
You wouldn't get as wild up.
I feel like, you know, I guess,
I mean, you're making a great point.
I find the missionary practice problematic.
You get a point of mystery there.
Yes, yes,
of problem.
More of a reverse cowgirl.
But Ben, I feel like you get very,
I really like that actually.
We need to call that out.
That's very good.
Hey, that's 100 comedy.
Social breakout.
Yeah.
You get riled up.
Ben, when people disrespect you, sure.
And you get riled up when you come up against like injustice.
Yeah.
But I feel like if someone is arguing ideological points
with you in this way,
you're just like, I don't have fucking time for this.
If I'm in the jungle and I'm sweating and getting bit
by mosquitoes,
I think I'm also just going to be like,
I can't do it this way.
Right.
That's the thing with this movie is this,
I'm not going to the jungle.
I will never go to the jungle.
Ever, ever.
No way.
You can't climb that appeals.
No mosquito coast.
I'm not the penguin coast.
Maybe I mean, I should put it right there in the title.
You're identifying my least favorite kind of insect.
I don't like living creature on the planet.
Quite possible.
I hate mosquitoes.
I do.
Yeah.
Love me too.
It's the worst thing.
And you know why, Sean?
Because you're so sweet.
Thank you.
But so, yes, I was so gross when gross would say that.
When you like complain about being bit
and I'd be like, that's because you're so sweet.
You honestly made me feel gross.
It's the worst thing.
Or they're like, yeah, you taste good.
Like shut up.
1996, I just have considered 1986 in more depth
than like other years recently because of this.
And you're talking about Harrison Ford major movie star.
I do think he might be inarguably the biggest movie star
at the year this comes out because the sort of,
you know, Stallone's moment is waning.
Uh-huh.
Schwarzenegger's moment has not like totally solidified.
Willis is in a.
Will, yeah, we have got to list yet.
Cruise Eddie Murphy is curdling slightly.
Cruise is just beginning with Top Gun this this year.
Yeah.
Like so like cruise is on.
I think it this one.
I would argue it's not close.
It's not.
It's not.
It's an argument.
And this is a movie where the what were the top three movies
of 1986 Top Gun.
So cruise is again beginning platoon,
which wins this picture and crocodile done D crocodile
and D doing this well is kind of a like we don't have any stars
right now.
This guy one of our.
Yeah.
Yes.
Well, maybe we throw in with crock.
Yeah.
Two things happen in the 80s for him.
One, obviously you've got two Star Wars movies,
two Indiana Jones films.
Yeah.
He has locked down that specific thing.
But I think witness is the clincher.
I was going to say that's the movie.
That's the thing.
And we talked about firms this.
That's the thing.
It's him having two franchises under his belt and then
being taken seriously as an actor and his serious adult drama
playing if not like a blockbuster, surely being a hit.
It's kind of like it's that moment that happened with like
Jennifer Lawrence, where you're like she has silver
leggings playbook and the first hunger games in the same year.
You're telling me she's unstoppable.
It's a really good comparison.
And he I think is doing something in this next stretch of movies
that is pretty admirable that great stars do.
They get passion projects, interesting filmmakers,
they bounce they bounce between genres.
You know, his next few movies,
mosquito coast, frantic working girl goes back for last crusade
and then presumed innocent regarding Henry.
That's a really interesting run of movies, not all them work.
No, but only one of them to me does not work regarding Henry.
Yeah, but I love that movie.
It's bad, but I do love it.
Written, of course, by Jeffrey Abrams.
JJ, a little JJ.
He I saw some interview with him where he said that he really
likes working with directors two times.
That he feels like to a certain degree making a movie with someone
he's never worked with before is to test out whether they can do
a second one, not that the first one's a wash,
but that he likes being able to hit the ground running
and have that built in language.
And a lot of what you're talking about there,
it's like two weirs, two nickels, one polanski, you know,
he obviously does three spielbers, two Pollocks.
Yeah, like he would double up on people.
And all of these are, you know, once you get past Spielberg
and Lucas, they're like grown up directors.
They are serious.
It's grown up directors.
It's still a nice noise too.
His 90s, it's not like his start-em-wains and he makes hits.
Yeah, but the movies get worse.
And he has a lot of bad movies.
He has a couple of bad movies.
A couple of the second half of the 90s is a bit of it's a steep fall.
Yeah.
Also, the second half of the 90s,
the Star Wars movies get re-released
and like Han Solo is renewed.
Like even as the movies are falling off,
his start-em is almost more solidified
at least in terms of like Hall of Fame iconography.
I also, there's an interview.
Maybe it's for Return of the Jedi
or Empire Strikes Back, I think,
where they're interviewing the three stars
and they ask them what your first feeling was
when Star Wars hit, right?
Hamill has some G-Wiz.
Like, I can't believe it.
I grew up watching these.
I'm a star now.
They're people around the block.
And they ask forward and he just rubs his hands together
and goes, let's get to work.
And they were like, what do you mean?
And he was like, I was like 37.
It hadn't happened.
It happened overnight.
I said, this is my moment.
You know, and he's got Star Wars movies lined up.
He's gonna get Indiana Jones lined up.
But this run we're talking about,
the start of it feels like him cashing in.
What he saw in his eye, the moment Star Wars hits,
is like, so you're telling me I can get movies made now?
I know exactly what kind of movies I want to make.
I know who I want to work with.
I know which characters I want to play.
It got delayed a little bit
in having to fulfill sequel obligations.
But like, this 80s run is, let's get to work.
One of the things that I like about this movie
from this kind of metatextual perspective
that we're talking about it from is
that it reveals that when you are a movie star,
you are still on a cage.
In all of his films, he is either desirable, heroic
or wrongfully imperiled, except for this movie.
This is the one movie where he's just kind of a heel.
He's just, he's wrong.
Everyone knows he's wrong.
He's wrong from the start.
Yes, it's not.
Yes, it's about a descent into madness,
but he's basically no good from the beginning.
Yes.
And we are meant to follow him closely
and being gauged with his journey.
Like Helen Mirren, you know, well, I'm sure we'll talk about it.
It's not a fun to do.
It does nothing to do in the movie.
No, it's him and it's Phoenix,
or the two perspective characters.
We covered Robert Zemakas' What Lies Beneath
many years ago now.
And that movie, the juice of that movie was,
you're going to go into this so confident
that there's no way Harrison Ford could be the bad guy.
And when he turns out to be like,
typically, you know, absurdly villainous,
that movie like electrified people.
And it was a massive, massive,
and it was a last five minutes reveal.
Totally.
And that was like, you can't get away with this,
but that's like a fun house movie
that can have that construction be entertaining to people.
This feels like a movie where the public's response to it was,
I'm confused.
Am I supposed to be rooting for this guy?
Because it's Harrison Ford that rather than saying,
like, oh, it's interesting that he's playing a guy
I don't like, people were confused
where they were supposed to line up.
And I think part of that tricking is,
what makes him so good in this role?
But what must have just absolutely befuddled everyone
is so much of Harrison Ford's thing at this time is,
I seem like an asshole, but I actually care.
See, that's, okay, so that's the thing
that I also think is really interesting about the movie.
I don't know Harrison Ford personally.
I've certainly seen him on talk shows and in interviews.
I don't think he has the same ideas as Ali Fox.
I do think he's not that far temperamentally from Ali Fox.
He has a slightly anti-social vibe.
He likes to fly plane and live in ranch.
And crash plane.
And crash plane and smoke mountains of Gonja,
which I don't think Ali is doing that, but like,
he could use it.
There's a world where Ali should be doing it exactly.
That should be the reason.
Yeah.
He's an inventor for Foxy.
He's the most weed dead ever.
Man, I heard a story from a film production driver.
I forget what movie it was on,
but who had to pick up Harrison Ford every day
and said one day he was like,
come in at the house and he was like, I can't find my bong.
Give me five minutes.
And then he came out five minutes later with a sauce pan.
And he was like, what are you doing?
He was like, hold on.
And he lit off the sauce pan.
He sucked up the smoke.
That's awesome.
But he was just like, you don't understand how much weed
that guy is taking into this.
Well, you certainly hear.
Then there's these moments with him now.
Like there's the famous David Blaine video
where you see kind of like,
because he's always, he's a good crank on,
like he's a good crank on a publicity tour and all that.
He's crazy to it now.
And he enjoys it and he's very funny.
The thing where Josh Harowitz, right?
Is it Josh?
Yeah, he's asking about Red Hulk, our president.
Our president?
Nothing much better.
Yep.
You know about like, do you feel silly?
He's like, the money, you know,
it's gone.
Like, I watch the flansky bits.
Yes, I watched it.
Have you ever seen, I assume you've seen the video
of Alison Hammond interviewing him for Blade Runner 2049,
where he's with Gossling and you can tell it's like
early morning in London.
He's doing fucking junket shit.
He's not interested.
And she's so delightful and funny and silly.
And you watch him wake up and be like,
wow, I like this woman.
You know, the moment where she, she says,
so you know, when you want to,
when you're off this movie, what do you think?
How much?
And he goes like, show me the money.
And you're just like, he, there he is.
He's a silly guy.
It is, I think now he plays into it as a bit.
And I, you look back at all this press
I was doing for Mosquito Kus talks about how
press shy he is, how private he is.
And then you watch the actual interviews
and he is measured, he's open.
He is so fucking articulate.
He's not like doing some deniro like mumble thing,
but he's not doing like movie star razzle dazzle.
He's speaking as if he's like,
Gorg Vidal, like he's speaking in this very
measure thoughtful way.
And I think that confused people.
And it was received as he's cold,
because he's not smiling and telling stories about pranks.
And now he realized, I can just lean into being a crank
and people find it funny.
My favorite forward interview moment ever.
It's after Disney acquires Lucasfilm.
And you know, part of the announcement is,
Disney buys Lucasfilm episode seven.
And he goes on Conan to promote whatever movie he had
coming out like a month or two after that.
Yeah.
And he says so there's now boys and aliens.
Big news recently, Disney purchased Star Wars
and Harrison Ford like looks over his shoulder,
like plays like, am I allowed to say anything, you know,
KG and he's like, now I'm sure you're being told
not to say anything, but just to incentivize you.
And then Conan takes out like a thousand dollars in cash.
Hands him like $100 bills.
And he's like, does this make you want to say anything?
And Harrison Ford like grabs the money quickly, counts it,
shoves it in the inside of his jacket pocket,
and then like casually leans into his chair and goes,
I hear they're thinking about making another one.
And it just destroyed.
The audience laughs for a minute straight.
And the fact that he can now lean into,
I'm a grump, I hate everything and I love making money.
And that no one thinks he's an asshole,
that it's like, it scorches him brownie points.
It's great.
He earned it.
I mean, he's freaking Harrison Ford.
He's in 20 movies.
He said, God, I love this movie.
But that's a great way to be.
But this has always been the thing of people saying,
like, oh, he's no nonsense.
He's this and that.
And then everyone who works with him is like,
he cares about acting so much.
He cares about the movie so much.
It's all this cover.
It's what makes him a star with fucking Han Solo
is the moment he comes back.
I think he's also just a gifted actor,
probably an underrated actor,
didn't really get a lot of opportunity.
It wasn't challenged a lot because of the work
that he was best known for,
but a very shrewd movie star,
a good picker of projects.
I am large.
Until that late 90s, it dips.
It dips for everybody.
And it's the classic movie star thing of like,
Harrison, you're getting older.
You don't automatically match up with your female leads anymore.
Like, you know, it's like, where do you go with this?
And then stuff like random hearts is him being like,
well, Pollock and this is serious.
So I just saw that for the first time last year.
Right, you're for a movie of time.
And I had a nice time with it.
Sure.
And because it is largely representative of the canard
that all of us say all the time about they don't make anything
used to.
But they really don't make them like that movie.
That movie is a very strange,
morose drama about two sad people.
The cost like $60 million in the hearts of random.
I was saying.
They're so random.
It's random as hell.
Yeah.
And it's not a very good film.
The movie is pretty random.
It's actually a big inspiration for family going.
Yeah.
People forget the giant chicken is like third-billed
in random hearts.
Actually third-billed is Charles S. Dutton.
This movie sounds pretty good.
Carry on.
You haven't seen it?
No.
I know the twist is fine or whatever.
That's the least interesting part of it.
He's just a sad cop for two hours wandering around New York,
trying to figure out what he should do with his life.
And it's like a real test of his late period,
start him.
And he couldn't really hold on to it.
Six days and seven nights.
Like these movies where he's trying to touch all the different strains.
He's trying to like, oh, maybe can I work in girl it again?
You know, can I Indiana Jones it again?
Can I Jack Ryan it again?
And he can't.
That moment has passed.
There's a run that because fugitive is obviously like the best movie ever made.
And then after that, it's like he did clear and present danger does well.
Yeah.
Not a bad movie.
But then it's like Sabrina mistake.
Devil's own mistake.
Yeah.
Air Force one.
Not a mistake.
Great idea.
Sure.
Everyone loved it.
It is so funny that this movie he has a moment where he says, get off my life mosquito
coat.
He says get on.
I know.
I know.
Six days seven nights mistake random hearts mistake.
What lies beneath?
Good pick.
But he's, you know, Ness, he's sort of a secretly supporting.
They hit though.
They hit.
You hit.
You hit.
K19 the Widowmaker mistake.
Hollywood homicide mistake.
That's when he finally clocks.
It's like what I'm I'm two for 10 here.
Yeah.
I think I'm going to stop being a leading man.
Beyond that.
Hollywood homicide is the first time I think he looks in bearer.
Right.
He's like the fuck it's not just that the movie flops.
It's that it's like this looks silly.
Why did you do this?
What's with the earring?
You're dating Alie McBeal.
Like everything about it suddenly it was like is Harrison Ford like lame dad having
midlife crisis?
Yes.
He lost his cool.
Firewall is forgotten, but it's this transit moment to like he's more playing dad, older
generation.
And then like it's like from then on he is grandpa.
Crystal skull, you know, morning glory cowboys.
Right.
It's like now he's the old guy.
It's grandpa, but the other part of it is I'm going to do Blade Runner again.
I'm going to do two more stars.
I'm going to do two more Indiana Joneses, but Crystal skull starts there.
I think.
Like extraordinary measures morning glory cowboys and aliens 42 enders game.
You know, like it's like it takes him a while.
Also, I think force awakens this one.
He's like fine.
A lot of him being number two on the poster behind a newer day.
A little Craig fucking of course, Brendan Frazier and his.
Yeah.
So powerful.
Just like weird choices.
Yeah.
I mean, I remember I didn't vote this so many times, but it's just such a distinct memory.
My broken brain.
Ase Butterfield and me the big two.
I think he's the future.
My dad and I walking by a billboard for random hearts and my dad just going that's going
to be a big hit.
And I was like, why?
And he went because Harrison Ford's in it.
And I was like, that's how it works.
Like certain stars, no matter what they do.
And yet that was a moment where it was like it's proven wrong here.
I have invoked this before and one of the previous times we've talked about Harrison
Ford, but his inside the actor studio is amazing.
I'm sure I've seen it.
I can't remember.
They get into mosquito coast and Lipton asks him the thing that people love to ask him
of like, do you feel like you're stuck in a gilded cage that your level of stardom and
iconography and the blockbusters have become so big that there's certain things the audience
won't let you do as an actor.
And he like is very measured about it.
And he basically says like, I was very proud of that movie and it was something I wanted
to do.
And it was very clear that the audience is weren't going to go with me there.
And I adjusted and I'm never going to complain about the fact that people like me doing
other things in movies.
Right.
Like he hasn't answered that's basically like, I have no sour grapes over this.
I tried.
I'm not going to be an asshole about like, oh, they want me to be a different kind of
a list movie star.
But it is clear that I think and this is maybe where things start to fall apart a bit
in the 90s is post mosquito coast.
He's like, got it.
Notes taken.
I want to challenge myself.
I want to push boundaries, but I've identified a thing you don't want me to do.
And like working girl is an interesting swing, but it's safer, right?
Like other things like that.
I think by the time he gets to the mid 90s, he's like, I don't know what I'm trying to
prove anymore.
And it's too early for him to do the grandpa swing where he can really shake off the shackles
of his persona.
We don't need to spend like three hours on his last his 90s movies.
But I do think that Sabrina, the devil's own 67 nights random hearts are really instructive.
Because they all do okay.
Sabrina made an 88.
Yeah.
Devils on made 140.
But it stays in seven nights made 165 random hearts made 75 who directed 16 seven nights.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
So two picks, I was with the two pullers in the two Pollocks.
It's kind of like this kind of right.
You're going back to the guys who were 80s, you know, big shots and are now getting a
little long in the two.
But he is not able to one of the materials not as good, right?
So witness probably makes us somewhat similar amount of money as those movies, relatively
speaking, but it's not a forever movie the way the witness is.
No, and you compare the interviews for those films, the interviews for witness, mosquito
coast, working girl, what have you where there does not seem to be the same animating
passion of this is what really spoke to me in the script and I really wanted to play
this character.
Right.
They feel like, yeah, that's like a feels like good material.
Yes.
Movie.
Good lineup of people.
The audience will respond to this.
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Here is a quote I found in that same piece where he is pleading audiences to consider
the movie mosquito coast after being ransacked by critics.
He says the job of acting is the same in every film regardless of the material.
It's storytelling and logical steps in a good script.
It is fairly easy because you have ideas to chain yourself to.
Otherwise, it's party tricks.
There are a few complications to the characters of Hanseul or Indiana Jones, but the demands
of playing either of them are no less difficult than playing Fox.
In many ways, a character with as much experience as Fox is allowed is easier to play.
You need only to note the variety of his emotions.
That is one of the best descriptions of acting in an unpretentious way I have ever read.
That is so like just fucking cut through the bullshit brass tax.
This is what it is.
And explaining the two sides of what he can do well without putting greater importance
on either.
He is clearly very smart.
He is smart.
He knows who he is.
So, and what he can do.
I'm going to open the dossier.
But to me, I do think the big question with mosquito coast is, is Harrison Ford two
sort of inherently Harrison 40 to play this guy?
Like when you look upon William Hurt Park.
That's kind of like, I'm not sure I believe that Harrison Ford would.
Be so kind of like, you know, a moral or sort of, you know, unfeeling towards his family.
It's just like, he's Harrison Ford.
That can he pull that off?
I buy it.
And I think that innate tension with his persona gives this movie an extra electricity for
me.
But obviously audiences.
And I guess critics like we're kind of like, I don't buy it.
I get it.
I think he's just a really good angry actor.
That's, and he gets so many great moments of being angry.
And this is a very angry character.
And I get off my plane as an angry moment.
I think it's playing with, you're watching him and going, this guy can't actually believe
everything he's saying in that Han Solo way, right?
It's surely at some point if his children and his wife plead with him, he will break
with this act.
And I think that gives the movie a really interesting dramatic tension.
I agree.
Do you know who we're originally wanted to do this?
Let's open this up.
Let's let David tell us.
I guess these are the conventions of your podcast.
Thank you.
Paul Thoreau, Uncle Justin.
Yes.
Indeed.
Who later played Allie in Apple TV pluses the mosquito co-op.
I tried to watch this.
I didn't.
I did.
I did.
There are two seasons and 17 episodes.
This is my question.
I'm like, this movie I think is good, but it's a tough hang at two hours long.
Why on earth would I want this stretched to TV?
David, I have a piece of news that's going to make you slam your own head against the
Bible.
Go ahead.
There's a quote.
Let me see if I can find it here from I thought you're going to say season three coming
soon.
Yeah, right.
It was Neil Cross, the creator of the TV show, The Guy Who Did Loofah.
Yes.
And Tom Bessel was the co-writer of this series.
He was a wonderful writer, right?
In a 2023 interview with deadline, Hollywood, the original novels author Paul Thoreau hoping
for a third season that would segue into the events of his novel, praise the series.
The two seasons that exist.
It's all set up, baby.
It's all laying runway for what happens in the book and this movie, but the classic
prestige TV thing of we all know mosquito coast, right?
What if it takes 50 hours to get to the starting point from my kind of glance at what the
episodes were?
Yes.
I think like season one ends with them kind of getting to the mosquito.
Yeah, but there's so much stuff in it.
I mean, I was reading it last night.
It's like, there's a hitman who's after Ali and the CIA is involved.
It's just so very exemplary of what went wrong on that side of the story.
But give me a hundred random hearts instead of one three.
Three.
He's a rock and a team.
He just couldn't not agree more.
But Paul Thoreau starts working on this man.
He's got the book, the novel was published in 1981.
It is a time of course existential crisis in Malays for America, Jimmy Carter, you know,
interest rates going crazy, oil embargo.
And you know, he's not in America.
That's what you mean.
Well, no, it wouldn't be warning in America.
So this movie came out and of course Ronald Reagan has noted on the Wikipedia page did
watch this movie.
I wonder what he thought of it.
It's dusk in America.
It's dusk in America.
And Thoreau says that like the sort of encroachment of Japanese business, I guess was a big
thing.
Obviously, that's a thing in this movie.
I remember that as a child.
That feels so quaint now.
But like that he's like, yeah, you would look at your coffee company.
It would say made in Japan or was all like automakers as a young kid in the 80s.
I very vividly remember my parents at the dinner table talking about the incursion of Toyota
and he believed in what does this mean?
So he creates this character, Ali Fox.
He sees him as a quintessentially American character.
That's basically like, I hate the government.
I hate what's happened.
I want to buy my own town and figure it out.
Jones town, Jim Jones.
Oh, good guy.
Yeah, great.
A lot of ideas.
Big, big idea guy.
Yeah.
What have been a great podcaster?
Can you imagine?
He had some strong ideas.
If he had just gotten that out of his system and the pod can't see it.
It would have been the gymosphere.
Oh, obviously the Jones experience.
The Jones town massacre is 78.
I think like it.
So it's like, you know, the idea of like trying to create your utopia in the jungle and
it all going wrong is is fresh on his mind.
I do like this.
I think it's a little bit of a riff to on like Brook Farm and utopian societies from the
1800s, which is a quite a rabbit hole if you were injured.
And I will be starting utopian society in 2026.
Haven't whittled all the details down, but you know, let me know any ideas.
Sims City.
That's my pivot.
Yes.
Sims City is on route.
Yeah.
What did I have there?
What are they?
What do we do there?
Is it a, is it a commune style?
Or we all have, we do all do the same thing.
I'm just thinking like, I want to run like napping.
Yeah.
Who's in charge of tweeting?
Who's in charge of tweeting?
You can do that.
Sandwich place.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sobs.
Superintendent Nino.
Just like, what do I want to do?
Nothing.
I'm just imagining David being thrilled with friends.
I can't respond to that yet.
I can promise you there will be fries.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
Running water.
We love that.
So he goes to Theragos to Honduras and China also.
I guess just trying to sort of take stock of things.
An American author called Marit Thompson.
He meets him in Ecuador.
I don't know.
You know, a lot of stuff.
I'm not going to get into all this.
But he is right.
He is like focused on like the book will be from the perspective of Ali's son, not Ali.
Like this needs to be, you know, not a completely, you know, just like you're in the brain
of this man thing.
Like you're sympathetic to him.
No, you're watching this man go down this path.
The rights get picked up immediately pretty much by Salznets company.
It's a hugely celebrated novel.
Exactly.
And Salznets company had done a kugus nest in Amadeus.
So they're, you know, riding high.
He's won two of his eventual three best picture Oscars.
Right.
What was the third English person?
Right.
I think it's dance.
Yeah.
Sorry.
Yeah.
Salznets.
You're right.
Like a ants.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it was a great honor of quality prestige material.
At that time.
Yes.
Absolutely.
And was Milos formed.
Right.
It was like this guy knows how to pick him.
Yeah.
Paul.
So he knew how to pick the habit which he owned the rights to for a very long time.
That was an easy check to cash for a while.
His name's on every one of those fucking things.
Yep.
Paul started the contract and he sat on it for 25 years.
Paul Schrader heard of him.
Yes.
Another normal fella.
I guess I must have known that he wrote this at some deep recess recess of my brain and
yet when the open credits hit last night.
I was rubbing my hands like Harrison Ford.
Let's get to work.
Obviously.
He course he wrote this.
Exactly.
It appeals.
Obviously he has fully transitioned at this point to mostly direct day writing.
Directly.
Oh, okay.
You meant at this point, not present day.
He takes this on.
However, only to write.
He wants to make Mishima that's his sort of big.
He has just done cat people.
And so he does like it though.
In 2021, he says Fox's All American Hustler, the con man, the Donald Trump character, the
sawdust preacher.
Say that in 2021 though.
He didn't say that needed to.
Oh, okay.
He could've said it in a few.
Peter Weir, who has made picnic and hanging rock in the last wave and is looking to pivot
out of that.
We talk about this a lot of witness that he maybe was going to direct the Thornbirds, which
eventually turns into a television miniseries.
Has your living day interestly already happened or is it?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
But, but, um, well, no, it hasn't happened when he's circling the Thorn.
That's my question.
Right.
That's a post last wave.
Yeah.
That's his first dip into should I do a Hollywood thing?
Instead of no, he goes and makes Gallipoli.
Your living dangerously is a co-production with MGM.
So Hollywood's entering.
He reads mosquito book.
He just loves how bizarre it is.
He loves how this is like a Shakespearean protagonist, right?
Like you're just watching him like crack, right?
It's an incredible setup for him.
And it's like to him, it is like he's like, it's like an American Macbeth or whatever.
Yeah.
Right.
Like it's just like the unraveling of a man, but this very American kind of man.
I, yeah, yeah.
And so he's into that and he likes the idea of a Harrison Ford or someone else.
He mentions like John Wayne, Steve McQueen, like taking some American guy playing
with someone's hero iconography.
Yeah.
Um, super cool.
It brings you know, a Palsch Raider obviously done the screenplay.
They all chat.
Um, we're basically sticks to Schrader's script.
Like he had some ideas of Futs with it.
But I think he ended up like, you know, basically using what he was given.
He printed a pamphlet of Ali Fox's rants from the book that he titled the thoughts of Ali
Fox.
I guess just to sort of get into that vibe.
Ali Fox, another guy who could have gotten a lot out of his system with a podcast.
And to get to what Griffin was, uh, queuing up Jack Nicholson is the early and very logical
choice, uh, to start in this film.
Now Jack Nicholson audiences like watching him spiral.
Jack.
And it is appealing to watch Nicholson do anything, uh, especially when the behavior is bad
and the psychosis is high.
And so I think, uh, this movie doesn't work with him as much as it makes sense because
he's almost like two charismatic, two compelling and to watch his life spiral just becomes like
jungle shining.
Here's a weird thing about this movie though.
I would argue Harrison Ford's character is more or less consistent through the entire
movie at the very beginning of the film, the piss and vinegar and all the speechifying.
He's basically the same guy at the end of the movie.
He never really moves off of any position.
He doesn't do that thing that you're talking about.
The Nicholson does work over the course of 100 minutes.
You watch a guy go from normal to completely insane.
You know, the witches of Eastwick style melt down.
Ali like all the way through his death is a true believer in himself.
It's worth it.
Right.
And so he's a little bit more than 100 and he refuses to give up a single percentage
point even as he is faced with evidence that he is wrong.
You know, that's the common slam that I disagree with on Nicholson's casting and shining
is that that guy is too baseline crazy for a movie that needs to be built around him
dissolving.
And I think the magic of Nicholson is he can start a movie and you go, that's the most
guy I've ever seen.
And then he finds a way to add more.
That's why shining is so good.
But I also think, right, it's he would eyebrow work going on in the first 30 minutes
of shining.
Nicholson, tone down the inherent malevolence of whatever you are doing.
If Nicholson was playing Ali Fox, he would be ratcheting.
Yes.
He wouldn't stay at the same level where the point is this guy is unbendable.
He would be going crazy.
I think he'd be good.
He's good.
I'm not saying he'd be bad.
I think he makes a little more sense in the early 80s than he doesn't in the mid 80s
as well.
In case for why I think Ford is the perfect guy because you've already set out this
question of, right, they considered him perfect.
But Saul Zance, Zance, I thought it was Zance.
Is it Zance?
I know who knows.
Okay.
Zance like I'm trying to remember the pronunciation.
Basically, for some reason thinks himself, like as like a kingmaker for Nicholson, he's
like I made your career with kukus now.
Kukusness at this point is like 10 years old.
I want him, want him his first Oscar.
I know, but like Jack Nicholson has gone on to, you know, continue to succeed.
And so he low balls him and Nicholson's like, fuck you.
Like you don't get to low ball me just because like you made a good movie with me a while
ago, right?
Like, and so it turns into an ego thing.
And of course, what does Harrison forget paid the salary Jack wanted?
So it's like, it's all silliness.
Shrater calls it a pissing contest.
Shrater also says it obviously would have been a much better film with Jack.
So I guess we know where Shrater lands on this one.
Well, that's because Ford has been publicly critical of the script that they ended up
making, right, which is not the script he thought they ultimately should.
Paul Shrater doesn't strike me.
It's the kind of guy who grinds axes.
I don't know what you're talking about.
But while this is all happening, the film calls it part obviously and we're goes over
to witness, which is this like go picture that has Ford attached, that has producers,
that has studio, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah.
They hit it all.
Witness gets made.
Right.
But like halfway through filming witness, we're starts like we're just like, I got this
thing I want to do.
Yeah.
And Ford's immediately in goes to his reps.
His reps are like, you shouldn't do this.
And Ford is undeterred.
He's like, I like this guy.
I like this character.
I like where I want to go.
Well, the stuff I'm quoting is from an article that was on the ringer in 2021 by the
way, Sean.
Oh, great.
And Ford, you know, and we are agree, they don't want to be completely sliver.
Should the book, they think in the book, Fox is crazy from the beginning, they think
they should build up to it.
Now I am not sure they succeeded at that from go, I agree with what you guys are saying
where I'm like, he's pretty crazy from the start.
He's just very ranty.
He's got all these.
He's got all these office philosophies.
He's like, Sandra is like, get me out of here.
I don't want to deal with you anymore.
That sounds under very effective.
Yeah, he's good.
Yeah.
Ford says found him more right than wrong.
And what he was saying, there's the complexity of the family story, the relationship between
a father and son and husband and wife.
There's humor and paythos.
I mean, like you say, Ford's very good at talking like in an emotional and complex way about
the work he does.
He loves Peter Weir.
He says he's got vision.
You know, like, that's great.
And he calls himself an assistant storyteller.
He's like, I'm the person who calls for logic and applauding kind of determination to have
all the cards on the table.
This is what I was about to say.
And we talked about this a lot in witness that he really thinks of himself as a storyteller
first and foremost.
And that's his main function as an actor, especially since he usually plays the steady
guy at the center to help carry the audience through the story.
I would argue this is the first time he's playing a character where that is not his primary
responsibility, where his primary responsibility is get this guy right.
As in a certain way, Phoenix is carrying the story more.
Weir is really carrying the story.
Phoenix is carrying the emotion.
The audience is not being carried by Ali Fox in watching this film.
So it's a movie where the villain is the hero.
It's very uncommon.
It's very uncommon, especially obviously for Hollywood movie starring fucking Han Solo
and Indiana Jones.
The crew is mostly Australian and this is something I think is worth noting.
Both Weir and John Seal agree if Harrison Ford was an American with, he would be Australian.
They're like, he's just got a very Australian vibe.
He wants to sit in a deck chair.
He wants to like, you know, drink beers with the mates, you know what I mean?
Like it's just kind of like an Australian without actually being from Australia.
Harrison Ford suggested River Phoenix thought that he looked like him as a young man and
had liked him and like stand by me and shit.
Helen Mirin had only done one Hollywood movie, which is 2010.
No, no movie.
I guess Excalibur was released by Warner Brothers, but it was yeah, yeah.
And that was all shot and yeah, written and all that.
So she's kind of like a little overwhelmed in Star Struck and like Harrison Ford, this
is intense.
And you know, she wants to, she envisions herself as like beautiful and floating through
the jungle and Peter wears like, no, she's not going to wear any makeup, bro.
Like this is, yeah, this is a dirty movie.
They shoot it in Belize in Central America and especially back then.
I think Belize was pretty off grid.
And so it was like a long sort of humid, kind of tough shoot, but Ford looks back on it
really fondly.
He's like, I had a wooden yacht.
I mean, I don't know.
That's the Harrison Ford thing is just like, I had a vehicle, right?
You know what's notable about the time I'm at him.
He's not yet a father.
That hasn't had any kids.
So who did he have kids with?
Let's wrap this up.
Let's wrap this up.
The next year.
He has five kids.
Yeah.
Total.
Is that right?
Am I getting that right?
And then if you think about shrinking seasons is his children, it's even more children.
But is he, how old is he when this movie comes out?
43?
44?
Let's think.
Yeah, about, yeah, about that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
44.
I think I'm wrong.
I'm wrong.
He's got, he has an older son at this point.
Okay.
I miss Bill.
Because he has kids in the, he has two kids in the 80s and then he has one kid with
Melissa Flockhart as well.
Right?
He had, all right, I'm going to give it all to you.
He had two kids.
Okay, two kids.
With Mary Margart.
This is sort of like way pre-fam.
Okay.
In the 60s.
It's with Melissa Matheson.
He had two sons in the 60s.
Then he has two kids with Melissa Matheson, a son and a daughter in the 87 and 90.
And then he did have a son with a, a Melissa Flockhart in 2001.
So he does.
So he is.
He's a daddy.
He's in alley mode.
Yeah.
And he is, not alley.
We feel alley.
He is daddy.
We talked a lot.
We talked a lot in our witness episode with your co-host Amanda Dobbs.
Wait, what?
We'll delete it.
We'll delete it.
We'll delete it.
I'm sorry.
I'm so sorry.
You?
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
Is that the hottest he's ever been in a movie?
And we basically landed on that or working girl.
I'm shocked to hear that that was Amanda's.
He's not obviously appealing in the same way in this film.
He does look fucking good.
He does.
He looks like him.
Yeah.
His hair looks good.
The glasses work.
Yeah.
He's just a very strong man.
Yes.
He's not, he's not, he's not diesel.
He's just a strong man.
You know when you met a man in 1987 and you're like, this guy, he's got some strength
on him.
A broad shoulder.
He's got some, there's some, there's some significant arms.
He's just a sturdy guy.
His man's held lumber.
Yes.
You know, he knows what a power saw feels like.
He knows how to crash a plane.
That's very, he really knows.
Weirdly, weirdly, weirdly close to that one.
You know, they shoot the film as Sean was looting to.
There's a lot of push and pullover like to what extent did they just shoot the script.
Wears always very like, oh, you know, I like to discover stuff on sad and you know,
like, I guess that's sort of the debate of authorship here.
But you know, I mean, the shrater.
Maybe the shrater movie, like the Paul Thurus writing, he's one of the great travel
writers of all time.
He wrote this great book.
If you have not read it, called the great railway bazaar.
It's considered one of the foremost travel log nonfiction journey movies ever.
He makes his name by being a white man from Massachusetts who goes to Africa, goes to
Singapore, goes to all over Europe, travels the world, writes about his experiences in
this very fourth right, but emotional way.
A lot of his novels are like this.
They are emotional pragmatist novels.
And Paul Schrader is not an emotional pragmatist.
He's the opposite.
He is a person of extraordinary, outsized, biblical intensity.
And so there is this clash in what the story is meant to be and how people felt about the
novel and where the movie ends up, which is, you know, it's one of Schrader's underground
men.
That's what that's ultimately what this movie is.
So if you like the spectrum of Thoreau, it feels like it's creating this alley fox character
as like a shadow version of himself, right, interrogating his worst fears of who he is
and what he's doing, entering these other cultures and then reporting back to other people.
And that the most curtailed version of that is going, I know how I could do this better.
I could just do this and I'd have it all figured out.
And even that scene where they go to the home of the workers and he's showing the kids
around and he's like, look at this.
They love like kings.
We can do this, right?
This weird kind of like exoticism and like putting them on a pedestal in a way that is
condescending in his own sense.
It feels like Thoreau is like litigating his own concerns about where do I stand on
this?
Yes.
Right.
That's why it's written through the eyes of the child.
Right.
Within this specific world, but as you said, traitor is a mole man.
He's an underground man and he is someone who digs in and spirals into things like this.
This is not his world, but he more closely represents the psychology of someone like an
alley fox.
And then we're is all the way on the other end of Thoreau being like, I actually have objectivity
and distance from both of you.
And we're is really good at looking at different cultures, budding up against each other with
a sense of distance.
And Ford says that one of the things he loved about we're is that he finds that a lot
of times the best filmmakers at making films about America are the ones who are on the outside.
Well, the other weird thing that you guys, I'm sure, will be getting to in this series
is that most of his best movies are about the relentless power of the natural world.
That like getting stuck somewhere or stuck inside of something, you cannot beat Mother
Nature.
And this is a movie that ultimately becomes most interested in that and in the third act.
I haven't read this novel, this Thoreau novel.
So I can't say how much field he there is, but to me that's what we are brings, which
is there's a there's a fucking typhoon happening and there's no one better suited to putting
that on screen than this director at this time.
But you take those those three interests, right?
You take the mole man, you take Harrison, Harrison Ford's trying to subvert some kind of
himself, yeah, make a new persona for himself and you take this great naturalist using
this text that is like meant to be, I think a movie about how when you're a kid, you
think your parents are heroic and perfect and then you turn a certain age and you realize
there is full a shit as anybody.
That's the core emotional turn of this book, which is a great idea that I think most people
can relate to.
It just so happens that rather than like your parents getting a divorce or moving to a
new city or changing jobs or losing their job, he moves them to a different country.
This guy is about as full of shit as you possibly could be and the world calls his bluff
so fucking hard.
Yes.
So a plan and an exploded version of what you're saying.
I just have to bring this up because the quote is really funny, but Ford talking about
his opinion that like foreign directors often comment on America better than American
directors.
And he said, you know, the problem you get into is you work with foreign directors and
if they don't have a handle on the language, then what they gain in perspective, they're
losing the ability to communicate with the cast and crew.
And he said, but Peter doesn't have that problem.
He's Australian and they speak something close to English.
It's a great Ford joke.
Good Ford joke.
Griffin David.
Yes.
Yes.
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Now Ben, I know you were talking about this because you did this.
I recently ordered you got a tree tree.
I know.
I grew to grow to grow.
What's that?
Just throwing in some quotes.
I grew to live in his reactions.
Got it.
Now, initially, of course, I was going to let Griffin have his pick because it just ended
up being that you had too many trees in your yard.
It's a problem.
I mean, I'm all thumbs.
Green thumbs.
Yeah.
I got 10 green thumbs.
It's hard for me to do any other task because I'm so busy planting trees and watching them
grow so fast.
So graciously, graciously, he allowed me to select some trees.
Yeah.
So I actually picked some stuff out for my dad.
Oh, very nice.
I'm alright.
He got himself a couple of sky pencil holly trees.
Oh, cool.
I'm going to look these up.
Oh, very nice.
Oh, yeah.
It's sort of like tall thin boys.
Yeah.
Yep.
And then he also got a lilac shrub.
A lilac shrub?
Is that a spherical?
And this economy?
Yeah.
Yeah.
A lilac is for the roof.
And I love the smell of a lilac.
Sure.
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So the whole process was so easy.
The thing I really love as far as the features that are available on this site is you enter
in your zip code and it gives you a growing zone so you're able to pick out the right
kinds of plants that are going to thrive in your climate.
He's planted this stuff.
Yeah.
It all came healthy like they said.
And they look great.
And I bet it planted a big old smile on his face to watch these trees.
Absolutely.
And now here's the best part.
I went and I helped him out.
And I got to dig a hole.
Dad.
What is the best part?
Three.
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And I have one last thing to say.
Please.
Life is like a box of chocolates.
Force come.
Very good.
Thank you.
David?
Yes.
Hmm.
Great.
See what I'm doing?
You're stroking your chin.
Yeah, you know why?
Why?
It's just this time of year.
Force us meet a rethink what's in my closet.
Oh my goodness.
We're thinking the closet for the spring.
Do you want fewer things, better ones like pieces that are well made but easy to wear
all the time?
Hmm.
That implies that I'm good at getting rid of stuff which is not accurate.
But yes, I do want better things.
Quince?
Quince.
They make high quality everyday essentials.
You know, usually I go to Pamela Adlam when I want better things but you're right.
I should check in with the fine folks at Quince.
Premium materials, like 100% European linen, insanely soft, flow knit, active wear, fabric.
Men's, linen pants and shirts are lightweight, breathable and comfortable.
Shravel.
Linen shirts here?
Hot linen summer.
Yeah.
I'm also, you know, I live in mortal terror of something that's even 1% American linen
touching this flesh and I'm so relieved to hear.
100% European.
Sure.
Um, their flow knit, active wear is moisture winking.
It's anti odor.
It's soft enough that you actually want to wear it all day and their prices are 50 to 60%
less than similar brand.
How's that possible?
They work directly with ethical factories.
They cut off the middle man, your paying for quality, not brand markups and everything's
designed to last and make getting dressed easy.
We're in Quince socks right now.
Tell me about the socks.
They're just nice.
Yeah.
What can I tell you?
They're nice and soft.
What else do you get, lightweight?
Actually, maybe I need to restock it.
Oh, I really need some of this flow knit.
Might be time to stroke your own chain, baby.
Well, because it is starting to get warm.
It is.
Right?
Yep.
So don't you think?
Yeah.
I should like, we're both men who sweat.
This is true.
Got it.
I think it's a linen.
I think it's a hot linen summer.
I'm really loving this idea.
I think it's the right moosems.
All linen, head to toe linen.
You know, you know, you know, you've got to iron it.
But linen shoes.
Oh my gosh.
Linen shoes.
Linen shoes doesn't sound too good for these New York City streets.
I can't live.
But in the top case, I have news for you.
Rumpled, wrinkled linen is in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
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Andre Gregory.
Pretty brilliant casting choice in my opinion.
Yeah.
He's really good.
My dinner with Andre the first movie he's in period.
Sure.
He's obviously not someone who would, I think, designs on having a movie.
He's an avant-garde theater guy.
Right.
He has this like weird art house break out.
And by the time he gets to the 90s, it's like, can we plug Andre Gregory into demolition
man and shit.
But this is a really smart place to put him.
It's a different character than he is, but it's using his same ability to talk with authority.
Yeah.
He had been in author author.
The forgotten Al Pacino Arthur Hiller movie.
Outer author.
He's in the Goldie Han cocktail waitress congressional scandal film protocol.
Also someone forgotten.
Yes.
Red and my buck Henry.
Right.
And then this after this, he does street smart, which he's good.
That's a decent movie.
He's John the Baptist and less than patient of Christ, normal performance.
I really love that movie.
I'll straight up also took a pass at that one.
Well, you wrote it.
Yeah.
I mean, well, I guess the Bible first.
He took a pass on the Bible.
Quick dialogue polish on the Bible.
He's a good counter to Ford.
He is charismatic in his own weird way, but in a very different way.
Yeah.
Then Harris.
It's not movie star energy.
No.
He's an ED narrow.
Yeah.
Hectoring.
It's intellectual tight energy.
Yeah.
Which he was able to translate well to movies.
But yeah, the film starts before we even get to Andre Gregory with he's an inventor.
That's Ali Fox's deal.
What's the math?
He's got six patents and three more pending or River Phoenix is laying it all out for us
and six.
I think that's right.
Yeah.
He's trying to build an ice machine that he has dubbed fat boy.
And he is just kind of a tough hang.
He goes to the hardware store and starts yelling about how things are made in Japan where
it's like, okay, buddy.
Like, it's not fucking anyone's fault.
Like in the past, some human compassion of Blank Trek.
Incredibly normal guy.
He's very angry about the phrase have a nice day, which I enjoy.
This is what's so that's a great thing to get mad about.
What's so funny?
That's where you get it.
How are you going to just draw breath?
Are people?
This is what I think is fascinating about watching for the first time last night is the
targets are different.
But in so many ways, it feels like this movie must have been presenting a character of
like, look at our creation.
We've imagined the least normal, most wound up man in the world.
Even when he's right, it's annoying, right?
And you're just like, I can't imagine someone being this fucking on their high horse all
the time.
And then you're like, the targets are different, but he has so much of a similarity to today's
like Fox News poison person getting upset about like, they don't even say Merry Christmas
at Starbucks.
Sure.
Like all of his weird grace so deep in a whole bed.
What do you want to say?
What triggering for me because it does remind me of my dad in a very particular way, which
is that he always would just spout off about people who drove luxury cars, but in a tense
way where he'd be like, fuck this BMW driver.
I hope he crashes because like the guy who cut him off.
Right.
He goes, he goes a little, he just was like jumps up on the rage stage.
Get a log about how like anyone who drives these cars is a piece of shit.
And I remember being a kid being like, dude, you're not to generalize.
Like God.
I do feel like everyone's dad has at least one thing like that where you're like, why
are you so wound up about this thing?
Can I tell you what my dad says?
Yeah.
My parents split.
My dad got remarried, married a lovely woman named Colleen.
Colleen loves Bruce Springsteen.
My dad will not accept that Bruce Springsteen's nickname is the boss.
My dad is like, he's not the boss.
I'm the boss.
I swear to God, the father has said that out loud.
That's like great.
At least a dozen times.
Yeah.
So he's just like, no one but I can be the boss.
I think he's like what makes him the boss, the boss of what?
He's, I think he's genuinely rageful about this idea.
It's a very, I mean, it's a, it's daddish.
I feel about the wrestler, boss man, the big boss man from Marietta County.
Yeah.
Um, I think he's a problematic figure.
Yeah.
Didn't he like wear a cap?
Yeah.
I think he probably wouldn't work now.
Isn't the heel?
Isn't the reason I only know this because I've been remembering about the movie that the
very good Scott Cooper movie would.
That's so I said the big boss man.
Yeah, I'm writing about that.
I'm writing a big boss man.
Scott Cooper's doing big boss.
Yeah.
No, it's just they calling him the boss because he did their taxes and shit and finances.
And so the East Street band guys would be like, all right, boss.
Yeah.
And then eventually that just became the shorthand of like, are you okay, boss?
Like, you know, it just, it's funny.
Yeah.
They weren't like, you're the boss of America's sincerity and integrity.
Like, it's like, you know, it's just trying to see a boss man over here.
But my dad is like this with tattoos.
Oh, he doesn't like tattoos.
He makes a person when tattoos he can't get over it.
He's like, why did they do that?
Or what does it mean?
Like what, what, what, what does he focus on?
It's like a ding on character.
He'll describe someone's like, they look so funky.
It's all the tattoos and the thing through the nose.
And he describes him like, if they are like mutant like Mad Max wasteland freeze.
But I think Ali Fox is what if your dad was like this about every single thing?
That's the thing.
That's the thing.
He can't, he can't, but it's overload.
It's just like, gas like peddled to the metal constantly.
Because he's already complaining about one thing when Jason Alexander hands him the Japanese
pipe and he's like, we're shifting.
I'm taking the off ramp.
Now I'm angry about this.
Like he's interrupting his own rants with other rants that present themselves.
But he's like, there's a moment where he's like, I can shop somewhere else.
You're not the only game in town.
I'm like, if you're like this, how are you letting to any store?
Like at a certain point, surely, don't people go out of here, buddy?
Like no, there's a very subtle cut to Jason Alexander when he enters the store.
And he underplays it beautifully, but he has that era of, yes, just a little bit.
But for every person that reacts that way, and we've already invoked Jim Jones and Joe
Rogan in this discussion.
But there is a massive appeal of a philosopher king.
Somebody who comes in and says, I have a really defined worldview and I am charismatic and
propulsive in delivering the way that I see the world.
And join me or don't, but if you don't, it may be at your peril.
That's a very effective leadership philosophy, not one that I practice, but one that is like
is very appealing and actually makes sense as a lead character in a big story.
Now Ali Fox is not charismatic, but Harrison Ford is charismatic.
So even him leaning into the worst of this character is charismatic enough for the audience
to pay attention.
You throw out William Hurt, who's probably a better literal interpreter of this character
at this time.
And that's right, right at the peak of his.
Yeah, this is in his wheelhouse of the type of character he plays.
But I think if it's William Hurt at the center of this movie, five minutes and you're like,
well, fuck this guy.
He's a bad hang.
I know he's wrong.
There's just enough Harrison Ford magic for an audience to go like, can he pull it off
even when the guy's annoying?
And I think it's what I've already said that like, you're like, what is he going to kind
of come to his senses?
William Hurt, you're like, the guy's never going to learn.
Yeah, and the movie was DOA because the word of mouth is so bad because he doesn't.
I mean, I do think fundamentally guys as much as where you know, like, it's like, there's
no version of this movie that is much more successful.
There's a version where it like is better claimed by critics and it makes a little bit
more money.
But like, you still see this is this is like a sort of a $30 million ceiling movie.
There is a way to make it a more successful movie, which is at the moment post typhoon
and mother says we could walk up the beach to Cape Cod.
If he says yes, right, and builds a boat that gets them back home and the movie ends
with them saying yes.
And if that move the movie ends in that way, it makes twice as much of your movie.
Yeah, I said, Andre Gregory has to murk him.
Just absolutely lay away in the net.
Yeah.
Like, you don't want to go out at the hands of Andre Gregory.
No, that's not good.
Pretty lame.
Although in the book, his death is very different.
Oh, how does he die in the book?
He doesn't just die on the boat.
He is picked to death by vultures.
Oh, that sounds awesome.
Which is a recurring theme apparently in the book that he keeps saying I hate vultures
and he kind of.
He can't.
He can't.
Vultures too, by the way.
Fucking vultures.
Can't hold.
He can't hear the vultures.
Oh, my God.
Who likes vultures, but I can't say like the vultures of society and you know, drawing
all these illusions.
And then he has literally picked it.
It's a little on the nose.
A little bit.
Yeah.
I like that within the movie itself.
Gregory is charismatic in a way that he is not.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
You're saying inside the movie, yeah.
Sure, sure, sure.
This sort of like a philosopher king, like he's able to fulfill that in a way where even
though he's actually has, you could argue less on his mind and less to represent.
He is able to sell it more convincingly to people.
His idea is just don't need to be sold to the audience because it's just true a.o.
Christian values.
And so he's not going to be sold to the audience.
I mean, I think that's what he represents and the idea of the missionary as a theory benevolent
figure, but in practice, maybe a little bit more insidious like Ben was saying.
You can auto complete.
You can fill in the blanks and knowing, yeah, both silos of that.
Martha Clinton.
Okay.
Quite good in this film.
When she bad.
Never.
This is the starts of her river Phoenix relationship.
I believe so.
She's been in the goonies which are the year before, right?
That's kind of her breakout, right?
Yes.
Was there a TV thing?
No, there wasn't like that was her breakout.
No, I just feel like there was another film.
I'm freaking there is.
There is.
There's like this movie, The River Rat with Tommy Lee Jones, but like, you know, I don't
think that was a very big movie.
Her breakthroughs.
What if there was a river rat?
Exactly.
A provocative.
I believe it's her.
Yeah.
I think I'm not sure.
And then she popped up on family ties at some point, but that's all.
This is basically the immediate follow up to goonies.
She's also in Sean.
Ronning on empty.
Well, that's true, which she's very good at.
But no, she's also in stars and bars.
Our favorite movie that we keep invoking.
The best of this movie is Griffin.
Griffin, I look, you'll, you'll kiss that Keith David.
Griffin, you will listen to the big picture episode I did about this months ago from I run
through the list just being like, how could this move?
Rockets red glare.
Rockets red glare, the possible murderer of, of Nancy Spudgeon is in it.
Yes.
Among other things.
I think it's insane collection of people who are great in the movie sucks.
I feel like I invoked it.
It's completely sucks.
Our president draft episode on Big Pick.
But have any of you seen first family?
That is, I know what it is.
I want to say it's the only movie that Buck Henry drew.
Buck Henry does.
I was going to say Buck Henry.
Yes, I haven't seen it.
I think it's only directorial work.
But that is a movie I put off watching for so long, unless like he has the director credit
on having.
Of course, the thing is only so long.
Yes.
I put off watching it for so long because I had only heard horrible things and it's the
ultimate.
It is a White House comedy where the first family is Bob Newhart as president Madeline
Connist first lady, Gilda Radner as their daughter, Harvey Korman, Rip Torren, Austin
Pendleton, Fred Willard, Richard Benjamin, supporting cast, written director by Buck Henry.
You put it on within 10 minutes.
You're like, this is the most reinsited shit I have ever seen.
It is deathly unfunny and racist.
It is all about them negotiating with a fictional African nation.
And the second it's represented on screen, you're like, holy shit, all of this is wrong.
And all the funniest actors you've ever seen are like, merciless, anti-smile in it.
So it is not a hidden jammer, it does suck.
It starts a burst like that.
Yeah, kind of.
Stars and burst is.
It's not like deep.
It's broad in its caricature in the south, but it's not offensive.
It starts and bursts is just DOA.
It's just one of these things where you're like, I don't get it.
Yeah, they'll go.
There's only mecca.
Yep.
She's not doing much either.
But Martha Plimpton's character in both of those movies is somewhat similar.
Where it's like, this is an underage teenage girl.
Yes, still a precocious girl.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which is obviously, Martha Plimpton is Keith Caradine's daughter.
She's get a related to George Plimpton in some way.
You know, like she's got this or a precocious vibe anyway.
But in this movie, she's got the tomboy thing.
She's got the just collove joy thing going on.
She is the reverence daughter.
And she's like a little bit of a rap scallion.
For sure.
I love Martha Plimpton.
I think if you can go to the bathroom.
What a line that is.
Yeah, that's something she says.
Yeah.
But I see later.
Ben, think of us when you're in there.
Just to set up a little bit more of those, you know, alley fox.
Right, not only does he hate everything he sees, but he also thinks like the world's
about to end maybe he keeps talking about nuclear war.
He tries to build the ice machine for a farmer that ends up with that one screaming
at each other.
Like, feels like anytime he gets a job and sort of descends into recrimination.
It is such a good scene where the guy is like, you know, and he's getting all high in
mighty about what he did well and how he's not respected.
And the guy just stops him in his like, I agree that you're a genius.
That's why I hired you.
You're unbelievably good at what you do.
So this right here, it ain't worth your fucking problem.
You make everything over complicated.
This is 10 times more than I asked for.
And now it's like misfiring.
And you're being a dick about it.
So you, I mean, this is extremely obvious, but the modern day equivalent of alley foxes
Elon Musk, yeah, sure that this is an inventor.
This is a brilliant person.
This is a person whose social and moral ideas are pretty nuts.
Yeah, all that.
He's very cruel and bizarre.
It does not matter how smart you are.
That doesn't make you good.
Yeah, that's a, that's an interesting idea.
But that the driving force is I have identified problems in our society.
And I think I am the only one who knows how to fix them.
And I swear to you, I'm doing this for your good.
Right.
And he, he is smart, but he has no other applicable or sort of demonstrable skills.
Invented reason to be doing what he's doing.
He basically, he dropped out of school.
Right.
And then he basically like, Hey, some of our greatest minds, but no offense to anybody who
dropped out.
It's more that like indicates a lack of follow through for someone who imagines himself
as, oh, he doesn't want to play by rules.
I was going to say that I was more as can you imagine the fights he was getting into
his professors with mid class every day.
And you're like, and how did he get a lady?
Oh, he's Harrison Ford, right?
So that's how he did that.
But he decides to just, he tells his family like, hey, great news.
We're leaving the United States.
We're getting on a barge.
Andre Gregg, Grein Martha, Plumpton are going to be there and we are going to fucking mosquito
coast baby.
I've identified where to be.
We're going to make ice there.
People are really going to want ice there.
It's the immigrant employees that this construction site who he starts like coveting.
And he buys a village.
And he's like, this rocks.
Everyone else is like, we're doomed.
There's an immediate, immediate escalation of get off the boat.
Look, it's great.
Everyone's like, and then a day later, he's like better news.
I have no money now, but I own a town.
And the town looks even worse than the place they landed the boat.
Do you guys watch Survivor?
No.
I watch the first like five years religiously and I've not two decades now.
This scene has big survivor energy.
I can do this.
Yeah.
What happens is all the contestants arrive on a boat to an island.
It's now been Fiji for whatever 10 consecutive years.
But prior to that, they would travel all around the world and go to different islands.
And they get off the boat and it's obviously this diverse collection of people,
men and women from all walks of life, different ages.
And they arrive at, they get broken up into teams and they arrive at their individual camps.
And their camps that are entirely undeveloped.
And they have to build.
They have to build their camp and it's start pulling branches down and trees and palm fronds.
And they always come in really bullish with so much energy.
Yes.
This is actually easy.
This is better.
Good.
We know distractions.
Here we are.
And inevitably by the end of episode one, there's one team at least that's in over their
skis and they're kind of fucked and then over the course of the next six episodes, that
tribe gets radically dismantled by the other teams.
And they're screaming at each other.
Yes.
And this is that.
This is that.
Yeah.
The arrival at the town and it just sucking so hard made me think of the National Lampoon
Vacation movies kind of.
You're right.
Very much that vibe of look at the hotel where my god us reveal bad hotel.
Look how great this is.
You're right.
And like everyone else is like, oh my god.
The journey to Wally world is like a very, very mild mosquito coast kind of thing.
Right.
But talking about like recognizable relatable dad energy, right?
The game with Clark Rizwald is he knows this isn't good.
And he's in such deep denial.
He cannot surrender the idea that he's fucked up this vacation.
And so he's lying to all of them to try to make it true.
When Ali sees shows them the city for the first time, the town for the first time, what's
so compelling is that you're like, this guy 1000% believes everything he's saying.
Look at it.
It's incredible.
There's nothing here.
We get to start from scratch.
Yeah.
It's a good dream to him.
It's very convincing.
Which I, you know, I spend too much time thinking about this, but I have a belief.
It's not unique to me, but it's one I've been holding on to very strongly that a lot of
these people who like are absolute devotees of, of musk of Trump, of many of these kind
of like, I don't know, demagoguers.
Fascist assholes.
Yes.
That part of it is there, and it's connected to this fucking like paleo diet shit and
let's roll back restrictions on everything that these people do to some degree want to
like reset the clock.
Okay.
So this is something that I did want to speak to you guys about because I'm not going with
you to the mosquito.
No, I'm not.
Well, just a trip, just a little trip.
One live show.
One live show.
Here's your jungle draft.
We do have ice.
Ice is available.
I think at least there's ice.
Big ice.
Although how flammable is your ice building?
No.
The thing that I medium.
There's the ice to put out the flames created by the ice.
There's a kernel of alley that I relate to, which is a thing that is hitting me very
hard now at the stage of my life, which is I do fantasize a little bit about leaving
it behind.
That big time.
I am a little bit like I have signed up for a lot.
I've been doing a lot for a long time.
And how much of this do I actually like at all?
I'm detecting a lot of too many projects from you.
It's my own making.
Yeah, my own problem.
I blame no one but myself.
But when you are like that, when you live like that for a long time, and I've been living
like that for about 10 years, there is a part of me that it's just like, it doesn't have
to be Honduras.
It could be a small town north of Seattle.
Right.
That sounds lovely.
Is there a way to shrink my life by control?
Yes.
I think it's like, yes, that is the relatable part of this, which is, and when you're in
that kind of state, you get so hypersensitive to all these other indignities of civilization.
That's exactly it.
And everything else gets more annoying.
And torture, which admittedly, those things aren't working well right now.
Right.
And you're like, okay, so I've opted into too many things that I'm now having regrets
about.
And then there's all this other shit that I never have the choice to opt in or out of
that drives me fucking crazy.
The impulse makes sense.
And I do think a lot of the anger that causes people to follow these kinds of like insane
motherfuckers is that they are speaking to some level of, can we burn it all down, right?
And even like, make America great again isn't about like, can we go back to 1965?
But I have no urge to change.
But I have no urge to change society or even compel anyone to join me.
It's more about my own person.
Same.
I just want to disappear.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then I have a home theater system.
Yes.
With all of my blue rays.
Grey, why thought I would like to go with Helen Mirren?
I do.
Great choice.
Sure.
Why not?
River Phoenix.
He's a fun hang.
Yeah.
Now the cave.
Like, you know, there's not going to be air conditioning.
Well, okay.
Let me finish.
And this planet ain't getting colder.
No, the cave has the cave has central air.
Oh, I've got to finish my thoughts.
Sure.
There is neither sand nor grass.
Oh, you are the least outdoorsy guy.
Yeah.
So living off the grid is really just not for you, I feel like.
Are you going to make a fire or how are we cooking?
Sean or you outdoors?
I like to listen to it.
If I had to be, I could be.
But it's not.
I would like a mid-century modern home.
That's what I actually did is, but I can fuck with that.
Yeah.
That sounds nice.
With central air sounds useful.
Yeah.
Sure.
I'd like to, can I get a playroom for my child?
Well, this is the main thing.
It's also right.
You have a kid who might be like, hey, a River Phoenix situation of like, I might not
be completely interested in what we're doing right now.
Like I might have other feelings and needs.
No.
So how quickly do you go like, well, you can't go back there.
There's not been a nuclear war.
Yeah.
Which is the card that Ali plays.
He does.
Another thing that's upsetting about this movie is we're seeing the story from the perspective
of River Phoenix.
This guy has too many kids.
And the more time you're spending in his son's head with the narration, seeing things
through his son's eyes, you're remembering like, he's got other kids.
He's neglecting who are younger, who are less capable of processing this, whose heads
we're not even tuned into.
Yeah.
And the book and the movie are like a pretty gentle social commentary on gender roles and
families.
And the fact that mother is this like quieted person who has to go along with everything,
all of his hair brain schemes.
And just make the dresses for everybody.
It's why this movie is very upsetting.
You're watching a family get abused by this parent who is lying to them after forcing
them into a situation they don't seem that interested in.
And yeah, it's like he hates Reverend Spellgood or whatever.
What's this?
Yeah, Reverend Spellgood.
He's like a deferred being a zealot and for, you know, leading a mindless flock or whatever
it is, you know, he thinks Spellgood's up to him.
But that's what he really hates is that he has followers.
Well, right, but I'm like, you're doing the exact same thing, buddy.
You're just, right, you're just doing it only to your family because someone else wants
staying out with you.
Right.
This guy's got a drive in.
Yeah.
He's got people driving in to hear his words.
See, my thing re-living off the grid is I don't want to lift the off the grid.
I want to live on the grid.
Because it has electricity.
Well, I was going to say you want to live in the literal grid at the world of Tron.
Oh, that would be nice.
Biodegraded.
I'm going to see Tron tonight.
Are you or I was going to go Monday, but then I went to go see Marty Super.
Right.
I, of course, stuck to my principles and I entered the grid.
But mostly for your Oscar watching.
Yeah, of course.
I just hear so much lead opus.
Yeah.
You know, it's, you liked it.
Well, it's a fucking dumb movie, but it does look cool.
It's visually well executed.
It's got all the Tron stuff.
We'll be six months old by this time.
This comes out right.
I mean, to hear that it is watchable.
Can I spoil a plot pointer?
Do you want to go and call?
I mean, I'd rather go and call, but yeah, let's just pod.
A thing it does that legacy didn't do.
And I love legacy.
I think legacy is kind of an awesome movie.
Jokou.
Jokou.
And I also think legacy predicted the future of all corporate art.
Like it just, it's showing you what will happen.
If Jokou does fugitive, are we excited?
He's doing Miami Vice-Dab right?
I know, I'm saying down the line.
Kind of.
Yeah, that's interesting.
I mean, it's like great.
It's like a vehicle for a thing you can do.
And it has to be a kind of a techno-cracked version.
Right.
Like where are the vehicles?
Yeah.
What if it's Tron-Colin fugitive?
What?
Sounds good.
A thing that it does that is pure nostalgia bait, you know, is that it goes into 1982
Tron.
It's a little bit of this in the trailer.
And it's the first thing in a year of marketing that has gotten me a little excited for
this.
There is that.
There is.
Everything in that, you know, sequence is, again, like I said, it's just nostalgia stuff,
but it is so visually well executed that I kind of had to tip my hat to it.
And of course, that is where you also get Jeff Bridges just burping.
You know what I mean?
Like Jeff Bridges just being like, yeah, I am your one legacy character at this point.
So I will participate.
Is he going to get now Bridges?
Is he carrying a big barrel of three X's on it?
No, but like it's truly me like, I'm like, this is so far from.
Is it in the same universe as legacy?
It is.
It's a direct, equal to legacy in ways.
Is it part of it?
They like point to a picture and say like he's off doing his own thing.
This is my favorite.
He went to the mosquito cove.
Yeah.
It's truly that.
It's like Aaron had no business.
We know vanished into the ether with Olivia Wilde.
They are not really a part of this movie at all.
They have a podcast.
And now his company is in the hands of Greta Lee.
Yeah.
And who's the villain from the first movie?
You know, the British guy.
I know, but what's the character guy?
David Warner's grandson is Evan.
So is Evan Peters playing Killian Murphy's son?
Because remember, Killian Murphy is set up as Stark's.
Killian Murphy is not acknowledged.
Evan Peters is playing Julian Anderson's son.
Okay.
The Dillinger much like one.
Yes, he is in that.
He's from the red guy.
Right.
Stark in the trees, but Dillinger is the one.
But you know how like Tron, it still boils down to it.
Blue guys are good.
The red guys are bad.
And like just so you can be sure of that.
Evan Peters is in a very red room when he's doing his villainy and so on.
Should our bit for 2026?
I'm not saying we're retiring Red Hulk.
But listeners being like, well, I know they record these episodes months in advance.
It's very funny to listen to June episodes that still have Red Hulk talk because they've
just seen it or whatever.
And then I've seen our listeners get excited as like it's October.
Red Hulk still in the convoy.
Right.
They're not giving up on his past relevancy.
It wasn't just that it was topical.
Should Tron Aries be our new added, we continue talking about Tron Aries for two years.
Yeah, please.
Let's talk about Tron Aries.
Okay.
I mean, I gotta get a bucket.
We got it.
I'm sure there will be a lot of elaborate bucket.
There are many.
They are Kate machine, the cabinet.
There's a bucket that's fucking Aries on the cycle and each wheel has its own popcorn.
You're getting a bucket.
You're getting a bucket.
Yeah, of course, put that in my suitcase.
Absolutely.
One of the big, the arcade one, which one are you looking at?
Let's just look at the bucket.
Come on.
David, let's look at the bucket.
I was just going to say one of the big plot points in Aries is of course Jared Leto and
actor.
We all adored normal guy.
Right.
And a guy we adore and Ali Fox.
Right.
A place a an AI called Aries that's sort of like a, you know, kind of military.
AI.
Yeah.
What's that?
He's a program.
Awesome.
And some intellectual.
And the big plot arc of the movie is that he starts to become self aware and more human
and disobeys orders, right?
Right.
Can you believe it?
There's the popcorn bucket.
I'm well, I looked at it.
I was getting it.
But then did you see the cycle one?
Yeah.
Popcorn, it goes in the two spaces.
Yeah.
I'm going to see this movie and then my, my wife and daughter landed nine p.m. tonight.
So a man, oh, yeah, they're coming in.
The motorcycle and the arcade cabinet being there waiting for her.
She was going to ride that thing.
Oh my God.
She ever.
Uh-huh.
Really more of a mother board situation right now.
Mother board.
Mother board has big tronvibes though.
Mother board is detecting man.
Yeah.
She does.
Do you know that I've been sending Sean's daughter, he man toys?
I did.
I know we've touched on it.
Kind of right on the way.
She moved kind of a men's shape move.
Great stuff.
But just to finish my point, Jared Ledo and his current level of acting effort, if you guys
can reflect on this recent, right?
He's totally fine playing a robot essentially.
Uh-huh.
It's not so good at the human emotion is beginning to enter, right?
Like my feelings are emerging.
That's, that's an issue with the film, I would say.
Another issue is that Gradle Lee looks like she wants to just like drink poison the whole
movie.
You know, everyone's just kind of, you know, the little thing is bewildering though.
Like that.
But it's we've known because I know we've known this project's been in the works for like
nine years, $200 million and Ledo's been attached the whole time and I feel like they've
just been like, can we get you?
And he's like, no, I saw a recent interview with him.
Recent October 2025, not recent next summer when you're listening to this where he said
and the tone lines crazier than I thought, they write a more direct, John legacy sequel.
It was initially, I think, right, like more tied to John legacy.
There was a part they offered him in that.
He said, no, I'm not interested in this, but this side character you have of Aries, I
think is interesting.
And then that project fell apart and then they rebooted it, went to him and said, what if
we start the script from scratch and that's the main character and it's you.
So it's not just that like they wanted him and he'd been attached for so long and they
figured out what to do for him.
He wanted to play Aries.
And passing on it, reset the entire project and they redeveloped it around his taste.
That's fucking nuts per guy.
No one likes a man living in a perpetual mosquito coast.
It is truly I will say and look, this is a somewhat of a spoiler, but not really.
Don't worry guys because you again, you're not shocked to learn that Aries becomes more
human by the end of the movie.
He's gone from robot, like your program, red guy to more of a Jared Lido in real life
vibes.
And I said that he looked like a sentient feather earring that is really the vibe.
It's just like it's like, ah, right.
What emerged was Jared Lido, like the guy for this right now.
Can't wait tonight.
Jared Lido, I mean, bucket isn't by myself.
Multiple of the New York City is this because the film looks like it's going to kind of
do okay.
It's going to do the classic tron of like, yeah, it opens like 40 million and like, that's
all right.
Tron just always makes a little less than it is.
Right.
It's a little less than we hoped, but it's on a flop between 17 and 27 years.
We'll get one more.
But like I was, I was about to say and to bring it full circle, then are we done with Lido,
but I forgot that he's playing Skeletor.
He's fucking the human movie.
Yeah.
So we're never quite rid of this guy.
I'm fucking pumped for masters of the.
I am sure.
Travis Knight.
I'm not that funny.
Funniest moment of cinema con by far with Amanda in April, which will now be one year
hence you and Matt Bellani crying and Amanda just being but fluttle, but just as soon as
they they show the logo, I was like, God damn it.
The sword.
Yeah.
And she was just so embarrassed.
Also, all the other cast again, that is great.
I sure.
I'm happy and interesting.
All right.
Like, I'm fucking spawn.
I'm a big guy.
Um, Veronica from Riverdale fan.
She's in.
I love.
Yes.
A very important character.
Hella huge in my home.
A little rules.
Uh, Idris Elba's going to play like kind of a dad guy.
I don't know anything about him.
Don't say kind of a dad guy.
He man is the originating character for my interest for you in my genre storytelling.
It is the first thing that I have fell in love with.
I mean, you know what it is for me, right?
What?
I don't know.
I'm just wondering if you know.
Oh, oh, oh, not what he man means to you.
What was that for you?
What does he mean to me?
Exactly.
Sort of, but no, X-Men.
It's very much like, yeah, like, like, that was the first thing for me where like my six
or seven year old brain was like, I'm engaging with a property with a world with a bunch
of characters, not just with like what a simple narrative.
I like X-Men.
I can't wait for them to kind of ruin it.
Yeah, but I'm to do like, I'm pretty good.
That was okay.
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
Sort of the ceiling there.
I don't have much faith in their ability to do anything anymore.
I think that I have no, I see I have total faith in their ability to produce something
that is pushing my like kid buttons and you know, illicit like a six out of 10 response.
I think the big right like they'll be in the costumes.
They'll they'll obey the comics a little more and so like, I think we're living in
the wreckage of this issue, which is the more they do that, the more they create a cul-de-sac
where there's no actual space to move forward.
Possibly.
I mean, but this is a depot and Wolverine problem.
This is them hitting hard like, who can we bring back?
How do we make them look more like the cartoons?
This is where X-Men 97 kind of fucked them.
Arpen, I talk about this a lot, but they clearly thought X-Men 97 was like a throwoff for
the nerds.
Yes.
And then that's the best received thing they've done like five years and now they're like,
fuck, this is what people want.
This is not forward thinking.
All the old people back and putting them in Jim Lee costumes is going to be really exciting
for Doomsday.
That would be a good fuck them in terms of resetting X-Men.
I mean, I agree that it's yeah, it's risky because they're doing a double pop of, hey,
remember those actors from 20 years ago and remember the comics and comics from 20 years
from the Jim Lee Cyclops costume or whatever.
So then when they put Patrick Schwartz and Iger and I knew it sounds good.
Yeah, it sounds good.
I'm going to mind those guys are old.
I'm like, I need the latex to be tighter and brighter.
Right.
I don't think my whole thing with these movies.
I'm not going to see Marston as like what have 90 Cyclops and be like great 10 more
of these.
I'm probably going to see it be like, I'm glad Marston put the costume on and I'm getting
a fuck farewell.
He's going to take away the next Cyclops though.
In the same way that like Jackman re-upping, you're like at some point someone else is going
to play Wolverine.
If it had been, he was off the court for 10 years and then a guy gets to come to it fresh.
It's fine.
But bringing all these people back for one last hurrah just reminds you and then they're
bringing them back in the way that's like, and this is what Fox wouldn't let them do
20 years ago.
And now all the new people are going to have to exist in the shadow.
It's the same thing as all the theories that like is, is Downey Jr.
Doom a multiversal thing and at the end of it there will be a new neutral doom who is
the actual doom in the Fantastic Four universe.
And I'm like, well, then that doom sucks.
I don't care about your doing hypotheticals.
All these things, though, who knows?
Right.
I don't know what they're going to do.
It's going to seem very quaint when exactly out of this episode because keeping it
is that movie coming out next year?
Do you say no two years from two years?
Two years?
Like a year from like Christmas 27.
Right.
It's still a long time.
So is no, it's Christmas 26.
The Edo Coast to Thanksgiving 27 and then Alex Fox.
I need you to distract Thanos.
Didn't they push to him, say they do?
Doomsday is Christmas of this year, 2026, when this episode is coming out.
And Spider-Man is next summer.
Is summer 26?
Is this summer, Griffin?
It's 2026.
My birthday movie of 2026.
And those are the only two things they have next year.
I believe so.
My next year I mean this year.
This year.
Right.
But those are two big things.
Spider-Man movie and Avengers Doomsday.
Yeah.
Those are as big as they got, right?
I mean, yeah.
So I think I'm going to see him.
I think I'm going to see him.
I think I'll see him.
I'll be there because he'll see them.
When's the last Marvel movie?
Well, I just did him.
Oh Ben just did him off.
I'm going to peep for this.
A couple of weeks ago.
Do you have COVID?
No, a couple of weeks ago.
I just had COVID though.
So what recently, when you go to the bathroom, think of me.
And so normally I'll just binge and catch up on the Marvel franchise.
Every time you get COVID, that's what you do.
It's just any time I'm sick.
Oh, I'm sorry.
You just got to work it through.
Yeah.
You're like, that would create some odd associations with the Marvel franchise.
I think those are already the kind of associations Ben has.
Okay.
Yeah.
I mean, I just, I'm someone who phases invariants.
I just find it to be junk food and it's just like something where I could shut my brain
off and just spend the next three days.
Just, you know, half a day watching all these movies.
Who's your favorite Marvel superhero?
Whoa.
That's in the movies for anywhere.
Can I pitch it a possibility?
The Punisher?
Where are you at on the Punisher?
Ben Looper.
See, the Punisher though is too like Republican.
Now he's been claimed by the wrong people.
I feel like you can go up love with the Punisher.
I've read some Punisher comments.
You invoke the Punisher of some van a lot that you like that he has a van.
Oh yeah.
I'm a bit frugal.
Just full of guns though.
Yeah, I know.
But it's still cool.
It's cool.
Yeah, it's got a skull, the skull.
Yeah.
One of the great logos, the Punisher Frank Castle.
And he's got a frickin' trench coat.
But you know who Ben's number one guy is.
Spawn.
Oh yeah.
But his number one skull to the next.
Oh, go strider.
Ghost Rider, which is sort of like a fucking Marvel Spawn.
Very ugly.
He's so hazy.
Yeah.
And are they circling like a new ghost rider or something?
Like I feel like that.
They should.
And once a year they're like, Ryan Gosling is definitely playing Ghost Rider and then
nothing comes of it.
Can I say who my favorite villain is?
Please, Juggernaut.
Yeah.
And I don't think they've really captured Juggernaut.
You didn't find Fini Jones getting like the gestalt of Juggernaut.
He's got to be huge.
I mean, I remember him being large in the film.
No.
I need his ass to be fucking giant.
He didn't to be like nine feet tall.
Deadpool 2 is the house of giant.
Is that how he's portrayed in the animated series?
Yeah, he's very large.
I'm not too has a giant CGI juggernaut that I would say kind of sucks, but does get the
size.
I forgot about it.
I really forgot.
I still more be fear.
Well, I don't think Ben saw Deadpool too.
No, I did.
I did.
And you forgot already.
No, I just it's I did it didn't live up to it was my expectation.
Are you fully up to good Deadpool?
Good.
Really?
Yeah, you forget that Sean.
I genuinely am in pro Deadpool.
Yeah.
I feel like it's one of the only comic book movies that actually got the comic right.
It doesn't have anything for me.
Although I will say and Ben, you're going to have to cut this out.
I have him.
Yes, I've heard like a crazy industry rumor and maybe this has come out by the time this
episode comes out.
I know.
You should say this kind of stuff on air, Gris.
If it hasn't come out or it's proven false by the time the episode's released, we can
cut it out.
I really stressed out.
I've heard the Deadpool knows that he's in home.
No.
That's crazy.
That he knows that he's read the script.
He knows there's an audience watching him.
He knows what studio is releasing the movie in which studios they have a choir.
He knows who runs the studio.
He knows who runs the studio.
I think the better way to put it in those photos.
He knows the notes they're going to have.
He knows that he's played by an actor in one of the movies that actor has been.
Does Ryan Reynolds exist in the same universe as Deadpool?
Sean.
I know you're sitting down, but sit down twice as hard.
Sit into the ground somehow.
Ryan Reynolds not only exists, but Deadpool has some thoughts on some of Ryan Reynolds' previous
career choices.
I swear to you.
Deadpool won.
He knows he's in a movie.
Deadpool 2, he knows he's in a cinematic universe.
Deadpool 3, he knows he's been added to a new cinema.
Like those are the evolutions of the Deadpool myth.
Right.
He knows he's in a multiple.
And in Deadpool 4, he will have a podcast.
He will.
And he'll take us all down.
Good.
But yeah, I just met with Deadpool.
I think you're full.
He up to date now.
Yeah.
You saw Thunderbolts.
Yeah, which was fine.
Has there been something since Thunderbolts?
Fantastic 4 is over.
There's no plus yet.
Right.
You haven't met the Fantastic 4.
You've been taking your first theaters to that one.
No, I haven't.
That is, I do have to say one of the worst subtitles of all time.
I know we had to have that movie on a couple of Patreon episodes.
Did it relate to the film very much?
It does.
Yeah.
It's a Galactus's first steps on Earth.
I was just thinking that was a great idea.
I thought the dumb thing at the end of the movie was going to be Franklin taking his first
steps and that's why they called it that.
They don't even do that.
That would have been good.
But like, we've learned about that movie.
You want to be something.
It feels like maybe that wasn't it.
They cut it out.
They cut it out.
They cut it out.
They cut it out.
Oh, or was steps.
Right.
David, yes.
You like to cook.
You have to cook.
You make food for your family.
Yep.
How much time does that take?
It's been a tough, okay, an hour.
Too long.
I don't have it.
I don't have it.
David, I'm too busy.
You don't understand how busy I am.
I need a complete meal that I can take.
David, you like to cook.
You have to cook.
You make food for your family.
Yep.
How much time does that take?
It's been a tough, okay, an hour.
A complete meal that I can digest in 30 seconds.
That's the prep time I can allot.
Yep.
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Oh, I knew you love those.
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I love a green drink.
It's a big tall can.
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I'm not good at remembering my vegetables.
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The mosquito coast is a movie about a man who hates the type of conversation we're having
in this room right now.
Oh, you don't think Alie would like the MCU?
Stop talking about when I roll it out.
It's an absolute sin to accept the decadence of our own.
Accept the decadence of obsolescence.
Why do things get worse and worse?
They don't have to.
They could get better and better.
We accept things that fall apart.
That could be Ali Fox on America in the 1980s or me on the MCU.
It is very similar.
The tone's a little different, but the words are the same.
I'm just like, make me a girl.
She sandwiched.
I'm hungry.
I don't want to deal with it.
I think Ford is like so goodness and it is tied to what you're saying that he's one of
the best on screen.
He's not a killer.
And even when he's not happily raising his voice, he's so good at saying the thing within
intensity and the pointing.
You definitely believe as much as this guy's tough hanging to begin with him.
He is not bullshittingly.
He believes what he thinks.
Right.
He's deep in it to the end of the line.
He's not just some con artist who's like, yay, I actually just wanted to live on the
mosquito coast.
And this is how it justifies it.
He thinks this is what he has to do.
It's what makes the movie completely.
And he thinks he has to lie to his family eventually about like the world.
It's what makes the performance work.
I think you see in Ford that he plays the calculation in his mind.
It's a three second decision of, I'm going to tell them the world has been nuked.
And it's not, you know, John love its liar panicking.
It is like.
Now love it's in this role is an interesting concept.
Yeah, see.
Yeah.
That came about from a couple of years.
Yeah.
Nuclear war.
Yeah.
It's a hundred.
Made in Japan.
Yeah.
A missionary.
You see.
That's what I think.
Oh my god.
It's in those three seconds.
I think Ford plays.
This is actually the only move.
And this is the best thing I can do as a father and as a husband.
He's deranged, but he fully believes is to the benefit of his family to tell them that
the outside world is no longer an option.
So I rewatch the Cisco and Ebert episode where they reviewed this movie.
And so they had a fairly, Ebert was very negative on this.
He was very negative on this film.
They may come to surprise you to learn that they had a catchy exchange.
Wait a second.
What?
And they lived on the mosquito coasters.
Ebert out, right?
Ebert out because he finds this to be a very unlikable character.
He found the whole movie just like a sloth.
He said Ali Fox is a bore.
Yeah.
Like he praised Harrison Ford for doing his job well, but was like, I don't want to
hang with this character.
Thomas is the looks good, but not a good hang.
Cisco likes it more.
He doesn't love it.
But he is compelled by the idea of noble wishes, gone astray that there is something him
looking for.
And he, as he often did, directly connects it to the optimism and hope in the movement
of the 60s.
Sure.
Of course.
And saying like it's a curdling.
Yes.
You could see as a man who's probably educated at that time as someone who's participating
in various social movements.
And there being a lot of hope about what could happen in the world.
And I kind of liked that reading.
I hadn't thought about the movie in that way.
And I think also Cisco is just doing a little bit of performative jousting for the sake
of the cameras, which is something that happens sometimes.
Wouldn't know.
But I, that does help me accept him a little bit more.
You know that he's been a bit broken by, he actually does believe that this commercial
hellscape that America is transforming into before his eyes is completely corroding his soul
and driving him to the brink of a kind of madness.
I don't know if it makes him a fun movie character, but it makes him a more acceptable person.
But it's, it's that's Ebert's thing probably of like Ebert did at the end of the day have
that Hollywood brain of like, but you know, how do you, you're not keeping me involved
in the story.
This isn't entertaining.
I think this is more of a mall cop that I could fuck up my own channel.
Just go right ahead, just take as long as he want.
Roger Ebert's four star Paul Blart mall cop review where he's just like, am I crazy?
This movie's good.
Why do none of you get this?
And he talked about the cinematic, the visual language of Paul Blart.
And he's like, this is made by a real filmmaker who made it.
I can root for this guy.
I think it's, who is that David?
Maybe.
Okay.
I wanted to defend Ebert.
He gave it three stars, not four, but he did call it.
He did this a great lead by him.
Paul Blart mall cop is a slapstick comedy with a hero who's a nice guy.
I thought that wasn't allowed anymore.
And I sort of know what he means in terms of like it's like the very dirt baggy brat
pack guys, her sort of kings of comedy then the Rogan, you know, Seth Rogan, uh, John
up a towel for, you know, that, and Paul Blart is like, yeah, this guy's working.
He's a mall cop.
He just wants to protect them all.
Yeah.
He's alright.
He's a John Candy movie, right?
James's thing.
The headline of this review is lone rider of the purple, I like it.
I like it.
I like it.
Ebert popping off.
Should Daniel Craig someday retire?
I'm supporting Kevin James for the next James Bond is his kicker.
I don't know where I am with him on that.
But excuse me, the paragraph leading into that is Paul Blart emerges as a hero and something
else, Colin.
Kevin James illustrates how lighting and camera angles can affect our perception of an
actor in the early scenes.
He's a fat club.
But after he goes into action, the camera lowers subtly, the lighting changes and suddenly
he's a good looking action hero ready for business.
This is a little bit like Roger Ebert seeing the train come into the station and being like,
wow, I think it's coming into the movie theaters like Roger.
Yes.
We know you can shoot guys more heroically or less or.
Well, why does he feel this way?
The next sense might illustrate it.
He demonstrates what fat men have secretly believed for a long time.
Maybe.
Maybe just giving away the game a little bit too much.
A little bit.
Yeah.
Much like as I love to cite every review that he ever had of a Jennifer Lopez movie.
Yeah.
There's something about this lady.
I can't put my finger on it.
She's got something.
But I want to put my finger on it.
I can't put my finger.
It would take two handfuls full bear claws.
You know, that is interesting that you say that too because Roger historically a boob man,
you know, just that's if you read his work closely as I have certainly he not just the female
form, of course, an admirer of the female form, but he he like the man likes breasts.
That's what I'm saying.
But I think to continue sims analogy, the first time he saw Jennifer Lopez on screen,
it was like the caboose backing into the station and suddenly his world view was rewritten.
Sean, the threat of fantasy is him.
I think what you've identified is part of what I really connect to in this movie.
One of my go to I'm locked in thematic strains of stories is what you're saying, the kind
of idealism gone a mock, right?
And especially if it's coming from a place of like a semi-ernd jaded frustration with
what is wrong.
And I think a lot of other movies that attempt this kind of story, the stakes are lower,
right?
It's something like a movie I love is a Tucker a man in his dreams, which is like,
great movie, I think similar movie.
Absolutely.
In much jantler form, but you're watching someone just get a not get out of his own
one.
But I think there are a lot of movies like that where they pick a very small earthbound
prism of why do cars have to suck?
What if a guy tried to make a better car and this is how the world knocks him down?
And that's really easy to get your head around, right?
And then there are things that abstract it like megalopolis and senecta keen New York,
where it goes into the fantastic and you get to become more allegorical.
And what I like about mosquito coast is it feels like something that would be a true
story, while the stakes are about as high as they could be.
The fact that it is not a true story and is a pure fictional invention makes me not
feel as uncomfortable as I would probably feel if I were watching this movie knowing that
real people died or whatever, you know?
But yet it's like the scale of his ambition is so grand that I just immediately get sucked
into that even if I'm never on his side.
I like that kind of idea.
I do think that there's something about a movie like this coming out at this time that
it also felt very unacceptable because if you look at the writing about the novel, it
situates it in this long arc of kind of historical American wayward men.
You know, it's like Robinson, Kursow, and so is family Robinson, but then it's also
hard of darkness, Walden, Moby Dick, like there are illusions to all of these figures and
all of these worlds.
And you know, those are complex at times unlikable protagonist figures in those stories.
And that's not really what Eddie Murphy and Mel Gibson were up to by 1986.
That's not what the American movie star was expected to pursue.
And so I think that there's like, there's a lot being held against it because it refuses
even with the biggest star on the planet to give you one ounce of a fun of the fun that
Roger Hebert wants from the movie.
I also think the anti heroes of this era were also rooted in fun.
It was a sort of like, wouldn't it be fun to just be able to like, fucking take a machine
gun to the baddies for for conflicts to be this clean cut for you to be able to be the
guy with the snarky one liner.
You know, even as there's a rise of these guys who are not playing conventional clean cut
hero, it is more the raging id of like a throttled masculinity.
Yeah, Travis Bickle, right?
Travis Bickle is crazy.
So we can just we can assign his insanity to his action.
And Travis Bickle is a cautionary tale that within 10 years turns into like the sequel
Rambo.
Right.
But now it's just pure power fantasy.
Right.
And this is not that.
This is this guy's an asshole.
And he's wrong.
But he's still somebody's dad, you know, he's still just like kind of a dude.
You know, he's not he's not a he does ultimately do very destructive things and pace for it.
But two thirds through the movie are like, it's a little pretty nuts, but like he is still
he is human.
Someone's family remains earthbound.
And he does not ever become like a avenging anti hero.
He's fucking handy too.
It's impressive.
Early on it's working.
He's handy, right?
But so so he builds the ice machine to get us, you know, you know, through the pop
a little bit.
It's the cornerstone of his new society.
We're going to have ice.
We could supply ice.
He's got a lot of.
He's got a lot of.
It's working.
But when a bunch of, you know, essentially armed men from a near village show up, he's
not great at the whole interpersonal stuff.
No, never have them.
Exactly.
So he goes for, hey guys, you got to leave.
There's a lot of ants everywhere.
That doesn't work.
So then he pivots right to aisle, freeze them to death in my ice building.
Yeah.
He considers going full on Mr. Freeze mode, which is.
He's really worked out for anyone.
Least of all Mr. Freeze.
True.
Often a sad ending for that man.
So true.
Mr. Freeze is pretty tragic.
Pretty bad scheme.
Yeah.
It's a bad fucking scheme.
It doesn't really work out very well.
And he doesn't consider that the destruction of the centerpiece of his new civilization
could be problematic.
It is the, it is the other part of this movie that I find pretty, uh, topically, uh,
differently powerful is the notion of these guys who are like, if you just let me in
there, I know how to fix this.
I have the right ideas and they start out with three ideas and then the first conflict
happens.
The first thing they have to adjust from their original plan and they short circuit.
Yeah.
It's also the thing too of like the ultimate freedom idea, right?
And then what ends up happening is there's some kind of violent conflict and it immediately
kind of all falls apart because it's just inherent to human nature.
He's also gone to a place where everyone kind of wants to do their own thing.
And that's hard.
It's hard to coexist with other people trying to do maybe a very different thing.
Also his, you know, the thing that is revealed clearly in two different ways is that this
is ultimately a very pampered middle class American.
You know that this is a guy who has no idea what he's getting himself into.
And that includes encountering a militia force in a land that he doesn't understand and
also nature and those two things combining and he thinks that those things will work in
his favor that there will be space to move in a land where he's not encumbered by the
modes of society that America has built.
But also that he's like, I'm a smart guy and I know how to make ice.
So I'll be able to handle it when we have mosquitoes.
But he doesn't know, he doesn't know shit.
The whole thing is that everybody who thinks they know what they're doing and that they
should take over are full of shit.
A great.
Also much like survivor people get off the boat.
They look great.
They're all shiny.
They're TV ready.
Then like day three, they unlock a new kind of rugged hot.
And they're like, oh, I don't have to give in all these conventions of Western beauty.
I'm going on natural.
They've dropped the baby fat.
Right.
By day 10, everyone looks fucking horrible.
And it's not just that like their skin's bitten up and they have a weird and consistent
burn and they're like, body weight is getting distributed in weird ways.
And also they're like behind the eyes.
Everyone's losing it.
And I've had six scoops of rice in 90s.
This is one of the most handsome movie stars in history at the peak of his hotness.
And you have the same thing where he starts out and you're like, man, this dick is kind
of hot.
This asshole is kind of compelling to look at.
And like day three or like the dirt kind of looks good on him, getting a little rugged.
By the end of the movie, you're like, this guy's uncomfortable.
Yeah, everyone's ass is stinkin'.
Oh, it's a real stinky butt movie.
This is a stinky.
I bet it's melmassy in there movie.
I do no matter where I go.
I need plumbing.
I need hot water.
Again, guys, I am with the least off-grid folks around me.
What about just the same thing?
Yeah, just a small cave.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, situation.
Oh, it like Japanese toys.
Right, exactly.
You need a toy like sings to you and he eats you.
Sean, well, you're talking to me.
It's the world.
It's the world.
It's the world.
It's the world.
The mass New Yorker going to Hudson Valley, Adirondix where he's like, they farther
away though.
I want to make it impossible to go back to from when I came.
But still in the contiguous, how impossible.
How impossible.
You know what I mean?
Well, then it's not going to be possible.
I can drive, hop in the car and drive to a screening room in Beverly Hills where I
spend way too much time in my life.
This is my exact same fantasy except I know I could never actually do it.
I'm not going to either.
Right.
But that's why we're talking about our podcast.
You guys have fun.
I would say I'm more, I'll go to the countryside, the woods, the rural places.
And I'll.
Could you outdoors it?
What are we talking about outdoors again?
Well, you asked me.
I asked you.
So like, you know, and I rent like a cabin like a, you know, so we got heat.
We got running water.
How do you camp?
I don't like camping.
I haven't really camped since I was a teenager.
The bro campings fun.
No.
I don't mind people who camp.
I just saw really my phone.
So it is my wife's favorite thing.
It's like it is the did she grow up doing it?
Like is it an stout thing?
She's much more outdoorsy than I am.
It is them.
One of them, you and I are so similar in many ways, but the beach and camping are two things
where I'm just like they should be exploded from the plant.
Get it?
I have no idea how these things are so popular.
You do this.
No, no, no.
I'm telling you why it's making you do.
My wife, thankfully, not a huge beach person.
I live in California.
I imagine you go to the sun.
It was so funny about shot.
I love the beach.
I spend as much time on the beaches I can.
But the shot you live in California, you know, I lost Angela.
I live very far away from the beach.
I know there's far people who are like, do you get to the beach?
And they're like, what?
What?
It's like an hour from where I live.
I had friends trying to convince me to go to Burning Man.
I think people attempt every couple of years.
And I was talking about it to my girlfriend.
You would actually die.
I would be.
I was saying to her, I was like, you know this as well as anybody who spends a lot of time
with me.
The three things I care about the most in the world are sleeping in a proper bed, having
a shower with no limits and a real functional toilet.
And if you take those three things out of my ecosystem, I collapse.
I basically can't exist with two out of three.
If one of those things is in peril, I'm fucked.
I would never go to, here's my quick Burning Man story.
Okay.
I was in editor of Grantland in the 2010s.
And my friend Rember Brown did a series called Rembert Explains America.
And he drove around America and he went to just different places.
So he would go to a giant thimble.
And he would be like, why is this thimble in Iowa?
But then he would also go to more well known landmarks.
And one of the stops on his trip was to go to Burning Man.
And he went to Burning Man for a few days.
And he had been filing these pieces, these kind of long, digressive blog posts about his
journeys.
And I was, I was an editor of frankly too many writers at that time.
But I was writing, I was editing a lot of raw copy every day.
So I was looking at thousands and thousands of works every day trying to get them on
the internet.
And Rem filed his piece via text message with no punctuation.
Yeah.
Only Rembert because he was at Burning Man.
Sure.
There's no internet.
There's no laptops.
Nothing works.
You got to get the sentiments out there as quickly as you can.
He wrote it in a note on his phone and copy and pasted it and sent it to me.
And I spent three hours formatting this God for sake in peace.
And just because of that, I would never even consider going to Burning Man.
Perfect sense to me.
I track that logic so clearly.
I mean, I have a friend who, you know, go to Burning Man in evangelized for it.
I also am like, no thanks.
But that's really pretty.
I think tripping kind of would be fun.
And when they do the effigy burning, that feels like very like, isn't Burning Man.
Such a wick.
He's been like, so really long.
Yeah.
Yeah, he spent three hours formatting it.
Dude.
I mean, they're all that long.
God bless, Rem.
I love him.
I love working on that project with him.
But that one in particular, I was like, Rem, can you please, can we just delete this?
Like, do we really have to do this?
And he was like, I drew it out of here.
He's a Burning Man kind of coming out of the same instinct that drives Ali Fox.
But how do we build this in a way that is actually communal and with like the world's strongest
bowling alley bumpers?
I was about to leave.
And then we fucking leave.
Well, but the thing with Burning Man that at least as I'm saying is all about community
because it's all about, you know, doing it all together.
Ali doesn't have a community vibe to me.
He doesn't really want to be with other people.
Let me refine this.
I'm not saying this in a way that is critical of Burning Man.
I think that I get it for other people.
But it's more that I feel like when the people I know who love it, wax about it, right?
What they're speaking about is the same kind of fantasy that Ali Fox has in a certain way
of like, what if we just stripped all of this back?
And we got back to how we're supposed to behave, right?
And Burning Man is much more animated by like fun and love and drugs and all this shit.
But it is the idea of like, can we just have our alternate version of society for like
10 concentrated days in that leave?
It's also become a playground for incredibly rich people.
But it's the same kind of thing and the part of why it's been able to survive is that
it only has the ambition of existing for a week and change a year.
Rather than being like, what if we actually found a new country?
My fundamental thing that I was going to say, by the way, is right, you know, I go up
and say I rent a cabin, I'm drinking coffee, I'm sitting on the porch.
I'm like, this rocks.
I love it.
I like one part of what you said.
Exactly one part.
Yeah.
You know, I should just move up here, the simpler, just a little slower.
It'd be great.
I still am like, I mostly would watch movies and cook food.
Like it's not like I'm like, I would work the land.
Like I still want to mostly do the things I like to do.
But I think I'm just like, no, this is, I'm being dumb.
Like I think I would get bored.
I need friends.
I need a lot of social interaction.
You know, like what I get from the cities, what I need or whatever, but I have the fantasy.
I have zero mosquito coast fantasies.
I never want to go to the jungle.
I have spoken to enough filmmakers who filmed in the jungle to know that the jungle is never
your friend and you cannot conquer it.
Every guy who goes there is like, I think I know how to deal with the jungle and then
they leave being like the jungle like my ass.
But David, yes.
And this is relevant to our podcast.
I'm with the Dossian front of you.
Jungle to jungle.
Tell me if I'm wrong about this.
Please.
This in many ways seems like one of the least dramatic jungle shoots of all time.
It does not seem like to Peter Wears credit.
I mean, they call it long, hot and humid.
Like I don't know that it was like pleasant, but it definitely knocked disastrous.
Every other jungle shoot I have ever read about was disastrous.
As you said, everyone comes out of it and classic.
Like we went 80 days over, budge, over schedule and like, you know, I think things like that.
But most of them are like fine.
Right.
We tried to kill each other.
James Gray is like that was a disaster.
I ruined my life.
Peter Wears is used to filming in the outback in harsh conditions or whatever.
Like Peter Wears strikes me as someone who can handle an outdoorsy rugged shoot.
I just think this film has an incredible sense of place.
I think especially the sound in this film is so effective.
The kind of like atmospheric soundscape of the land and the quiet.
And then when that is interrupted and the photography is so lush, they're using their location so well
that about halfway through I like stop myself and I was like, wait, these things are always impossible to film.
And they are always accompanied with stories of four people had heart attacks.
We were kidnapped.
My dad drowned to death.
You know, gunfire, a town over or whatever.
Every version of this, we've covered but also like some of the most famously terrible production stories in history.
You know, it's predator and it's sorcerer and it's apocalypse now and it's lost city of Z in all of these.
The best case scenario is we lost our minds.
Nothing horrible in a demonstrable way happened to us from the outside, but we all went insane and it was impossible.
And this movie is like very steady in what it's doing.
Yeah.
To wrap the plot, like to get back to the third act of the movie, we talked about the, you know, ice machine blows up the, right, the
dronema, right, the true pivot point into like sort of irredeemable madness is they get to the coast like you say and the family is like,
thank God we can go home.
And he's like, ah, there is no home because there's a nuclear war.
I just heard you guys aren't allowed to hear about it.
You know, like, and then we're just in full cult of personality madness.
We're in the final stages of Jim Jones, like passing out performance is great in that sequence.
Yes, it is really, really, really scary.
It is scary.
We got a little Mr. Haddie too.
Mr. Haddie, the great Conrad Roberts, who's in like, you know, one of, you know, in a million things, right?
And yeah, he's, he's sort of a force of sanity to some extent.
He really empathizes with the family.
Yes, the kids, but it's trying to also not go against father, right?
Right, right.
And there's a, you know, all of that is a picture of the paternalistic approach that America had to Central America at this time in history.
I mean, this is like at the tail end of Iran Contra.
It's a long history of trying to navigate and invade and manage the, you know, governmental role of all these countries that are near our borders.
Like all of that is a very purposeful intentional stuff that all comes from Thoreau, you know, writing through the way that he sees societies operating outside of the United States of America.
And Ali, you know, we're drawing all these illusions of these present day figures.
Like that's not a mistake.
That's, that's obviously a huge part of this is that Reagan 80 is a thing that Ali thinks he wants to get away from.
He entirely represents.
I think we're worldview as a filmmaker is like more than anything defined by how hard he interrogates.
The relationship between the indigenous and the settlers in his homeland, you know, that it feels like especially of the Australian new wave.
He is someone who really drilled down into that.
Oh, yeah.
And even when he, that's all over the last way, even when he moves away from it being the explicit subject matter, it feels like all of his homes are animated by that clash of two different communities, ideologies, people forced to share the same space.
That whole kind of thing.
You also have butterfly McQueen in this.
Yes.
Yeah.
It's her final film.
She would have been, she was quite old, right?
Yes.
1911, she's in her sort of late seventies.
Yeah.
She lives about there 10 years.
Yeah.
She lives 84.
Yeah.
This is her first Hollywood production.
I think that played theatrically since Duel in the Sun.
That seems correct.
She's been to a lot of tea.
Yeah.
And she's incredibly important historical actor, who's in Kevin in the sky and milled her peers and all these movies.
But she's, she's, she's an icon.
Yeah.
And it's not a big role.
A vowed atheist.
A butterfly McQueen is.
I thought it was funny to play this role.
Right.
Not Miss Kate Wick.
No, no, it's a devotee.
Right.
Because they end up back with Spellgood.
Spellgood is the, you know, back to me.
Which is right.
The ultimate insult to the movie.
The greatness of this movie.
Yes.
I'll do it myself.
And he has built a compound and his thing is working.
Right.
This is the ultimate insult to Ali's sort of intellectual vanity or whatever.
He didn't.
He, you know, wants to destroy it.
It goes from just like, no, I want to do my own thing or I want to live a certain kind
of life to like, no, fuck this guy.
I hate Christianity.
I hate what he's doing.
We wouldn't even do next, buddy.
Just start like blowing up every church you see.
Like, it doesn't make any sense.
I mean, whatever.
He's crazy.
Yeah, but it's also, it's some cause fallacy at this point.
There's no, this guy can't dig himself out.
Like, how many times does Harrison Ford died on screen?
Great question.
Adam Driver, Merck, Simon Forza, Wakin, spoiler.
Just absolute saber through the chest.
Sean, we went to see that movie.
The last night that the Zigg Feld was in operation.
So true.
With my parents and a bunch of friends.
And my mom went to the bathroom during Han Solo's death scene.
And I like tried to stop her and she went and she came back after it was over and the
movie ends and she goes, it's weird that Harrison Ford's just like, not in the last half
hour at all.
She really just kind of forget about him.
Why Chubaka gives Leah a big hug or whatever?
Oh, no, he doesn't.
It's a brave.
They say that.
I know this is like coming into another team's clubhouse or something, but I still think
that death works so well.
I think that's the first.
I just really watched that movie because I'm doing my thing.
Right now.
And there's parts of it now that do, I mean, the episode nine hurts so much of that
whole enterprise.
Yes.
But all the Ford stuff in Force Awakens is so.
I think it's so good.
I think it totally works.
I think he's so good in it.
I think that death works.
Yeah, works great.
The stuff that doesn't work in that movie is not the stuff that people tend to point
at.
Oh, really?
What do people point at?
Or what?
Yeah.
Like, they point at that.
The legacy characters, the Mary Sue shit.
Like, there's the four obvious complaints where I'm like, guys, those aren't the
problems.
The problems are the like JJ Abrams, he built a bad infrastructure thing.
Yeah.
I mean, foundations of the house 100% the big all to me because Cazden wrote all the solo
stuff.
Like, and it's he just knows that character like fucking inside and out.
And it just, it just feels like the other films and not everything and even in Force Awakens
feels like the other films, even though it kind of looks and sounds like it.
But that stuff to me just, it's the same emotional intensity colliding with fantasy
stuff that I think is so good about those movies.
I like when Maz Kanana calls, Julie, her boyfriend.
I like her.
She's good.
On the witness 4K that I put out, there is a daytime morning talk show interview that
I referenced a bunch of that episode because it's funny watching Harrison Ford having
to like, not be actively uncomfortable.
And he's talking about expanding and trying to do other things.
And then she goes, what about Star Wars 4?
So first of all, I like that she calls it Star Wars 4.
Makes sense.
Right.
And he's like, no, I think we're dumb with those.
And she's like, but he's only a year or two removed from Jedi.
This is why he didn't like making and right, you know, had nothing to do.
He goes, I think we told that story three is a good number.
We completed the arcs of those characters.
I'm very proud of them.
I owe George Lucas my career.
But he's respectfully like he's, and he frames it as, but the story is done.
We said what we needed to say.
And the last I've talked to George, I don't think making another Star Wars movie is really
in his personal.
You see that movie, I'm taking a lot of orders from Teddy bears for most of it.
Yeah.
I'm looking at Teddy bear.
But it's Teddy bears going like, you know, get over that hill.
Okay.
Please kill me.
Whatever this guy says.
I can't wait to show Alice Jedi.
So then the reporter goes, you say that now, of course, 15, 20 years from now, time
has passed.
It's the price is right.
And he just goes, no.
And she goes, no, and he goes, nothing's going to change my mind 30 years later.
And I'm like, oh, things like this are why he built the reputation of he hates on solo.
He hates Star Wars.
He never wants to do it again.
But then it took 30 years and $20 million in Cazden and everything.
It's just also just a smart way to keep your quote up.
If you say you'll never do it, you know, it's going to cost more to do it.
That's just good business.
I watched him give this reaction where he just says no plainly.
And you're like, he's not an alley fox spiral.
He's just like, no, I actually just know there's nothing they could do to convince me
and make another Star Wars movie.
And then he says, by the way, I'm just going to keep doing Indiana Jones.
We're scripting new Wumble.
Do one of those in two years.
This is one of my favorite things, especially about big time movie stars.
It's true of some actors, maybe many actors, but particularly big time stars.
They're on screen and they perform and they show you the most, the deepest, most vulnerable
parts of themselves whilst performing.
But they, the ones who are really good have no desire to truly be understood.
And I feel like we live in a time and I certainly feel this way about myself where everyone
is desperate to be understood, to be heard and to be told, I get it, man.
Makes sense.
It's going to be okay.
We're in it together.
And movie stars are like, you don't know shit.
Yeah.
And I'll lie right to your face.
The real true movie stars?
Yeah.
That all the time, but it was the 824 podcast when Souvenir was coming out.
Sure.
Marty enjoying a honk.
Correct.
Big two.
And he asked her like, how are you dealing with this kind of press cycle?
You've never had to do this much for a movie before, right?
And she's like, God, I hate it.
He's like, it's the worst, right?
And she goes, how do you put up with it?
They ask me these questions.
They want me to explain the movie and explain myself.
And I don't want to do that.
And he goes, here's what you do.
They ask you, you don't shut them down.
You give them something else.
Yes.
Which I have received that many a time in my career.
How do you not feel like you're being cagey and breed like you're holding back?
Right.
Don't just say nothing.
But if you don't want to answer the question, what's some other piece of information?
I have never been more excited.
And I guess wrong footed by a director in an interview that I was with Joanne Hogg when
I did my whole What's the Last Great Thing?
You've seen thing.
She was like, I'm not answering your fucking questions.
She's like, I ate a good sandwich yesterday.
I gave you something else.
You know what I fired up last night?
Heat.
I love heat.
Yeah, I remember directed by Michael Matt.
I was like, was it pumping my fist, baby?
Really Joanne Hogg?
And she was like, yeah, and you know, it's talked about it, you know, it's smartly for
five minutes.
But that just goes to show you.
I had a great time interviewing the Hogster.
She's cool.
Yeah, she was cool.
I did.
And I referred to the Hogverse with her because it was eternal daughter.
So I'm like, yeah, at this point, it's a hogverse.
We're getting versi.
Yeah.
We're entering a verse.
That's true.
Yeah.
Dad.
No, I bring all this up to say, still told us what to do.
Yeah.
He's holding with a mustache.
I bring all this up to say that I think Ford had this reputation of he's not giving us
anything, right?
He's holding back and he's not offering up an alternative.
I think once he realized he could lean into the crank pit, it became a very successful
version of give them something else.
There's a game I can play now that feeds into an idea of what public persona Harrison
Ford is that's still actually guards myself.
But you hear modern stars always cite Harrison Ford as the person they wish they could be,
not just as an actor, but as like a public persona.
Movie stars all the time while they're on press tours revealing way too much of themselves
are like, I just admired the old school of like Harrison Ford.
You keep to yourself.
You're not doing a thousand reviews.
You're not letting people know.
And no one can do that anymore.
And I also think it's fascinating that you're like, he is really the prototype for our
modern movie star.
The modern movie star model is based off of having a Han Solo.
And if you're lucky, a Han Solo and an Indiana Jones in your back pocket, right?
And it's just like your set your set.
You can always go back to them and then you do the other stuff.
The problem is now the guys don't do with the other stuff or if they do the other stuff,
it's like, I'll take a tiny 10 day supporting role in a small indie thing to flex myself
a little bit, but they're not caching the movie star value on building an entire vehicle
that's difficult outside of like the caprio, who's also the last guy who still kind of
does this for as much as we like to talk about whatever 26 year old he's dating.
We don't really fucking know anything about him.
And he's elusive.
No, there are a couple of guys who I think operate in a similar way.
Like, obviously, Adam Driver is like this.
I think for the most part, Ryan Gosling is like this.
You know, whether it's whether you like him or not, Chris Pratt is kind of like this.
He doesn't really give you any of his interior life.
And then you'll get a glimpse and you'll be like, oh, yeah, less of that please.
Again, like if you if you remove the subjectivity of the movies that they make, like he is a kind
of restrained star.
No, I agree.
And I feel like Ford has like complimented Pratt a lot.
Pratt will make the mistake of doing the like, I need to comment on people getting upset
about an idea of me that's wrong.
And I want to tell them that they don't know me, but I won't put forward anything else.
Right.
Right.
Which is like, I'm not mad.
I'm not putting the newspaper that I am mad.
You can't do that.
I agree that he's a little bit unknowable, but he keeps making it feel like he's hiding
something, which is where you fuck that up.
Of course.
And yeah, let me ask you guys about one Harrison Ford movie.
Please.
I've either seen Hanover Street.
No, what is that?
Okay.
Oh, is that the one with Amy Irving?
This is early.
This is less and down.
Okay.
Post Star Wars.
Post Star Wars.
It's a post Star Wars Empire.
It's Peter Heimspill.
A Peter Heimspill from 1979, set during World War II, a pilot falls in love with a British
woman.
And it's like a classical 1947 style post-World War II movie.
And it's a beautiful film.
Very underrated.
It's a big discovery when we did a big Harrison Ford episode around Dile Destiny.
I forgot to call it out in the witness episode, but my favorite moment maybe in the history
of Big Pick is when Amanda is just like, you know, playing grown up through the whole Hall
of Fame.
And then you say witness and she goes, great.
She's just been waiting to yell that this movie, actually the energy that he's bringing
to witness, I think, starts here.
It's like it is his best pure romance film.
And it is one of the only films that is like mosquito coast that is sort of like, I didn't
see that one.
You know, like I skipped that one, I missed that one.
And it's post Star Wars.
It's not, you know, and it's not a tiny movie by any means.
It's a big old period piece war film.
And it's really, really good.
And I never see anybody talking about it ever.
And so I'm always looking for someone to say, like, have you checked that one out?
I mean, you know, in 1979, he does Hanover Street Apocalypse Now in the Frisco Kid.
Like he is drafting off of the Star Wars success in big way.
And nobody's fucking seen that movie.
Is there a steal?
There's, I don't even think there's a blue ray.
Is there a blue ray?
There's time in Twilight time.
Out of print.
There's merely a DVD.
Wow.
Yeah.
I would, I probably would have acquired that if I could have.
You can get a DVD to pack, wait, Hanover Street and random hearts.
Hey, there it is.
I'll say it again.
Beginning in the end.
My four Lauren Harrison Ford.
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Just to conclude the film, uh,
Andrick A. Gray shoots his fucking ass and they go upstream and, uh, he's like,
All right, are we, you know, is he's dying?
Helen Mirren kind of lies to him.
And it's like, yeah, yeah, I think we're going to we're getting to where you want to go.
And then a thousand vultures descend upon his body.
To your point, is there a version of this movie in which he goes?
My family is right.
Here's a boat.
Let's sail back to mainland to civilization.
Instead, this movie is his family sails off with his dying body.
And you're like, where are they going?
How are they going to get there?
And also in five minutes, they're going to be with a corpse of a man who fucked them off.
And they're kind of happy.
Yeah, they're kind of happy.
The dad died kind of kind of.
Yeah, he's a tough hang.
Like, there's a sense of relief.
Yeah, but that she, they was lies to him.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's, and that they're heading back.
They're going to America.
Yeah, they're in the fuck out.
I know, but that's a tough journey.
They have ahead of them.
Yeah, but they're going to be okay.
Helen Miran will be a waitress or something.
They'll use his dead body as a habit.
Yeah, fucking chop him up, chop him up, make a stew.
No, pack him in.
Nice.
He's going into this.
Send him home.
We covered all the Indian Jones movies.
Covered all the Star Wars movies.
We haven't, excuse me, we have not turned the dial of destiny yet.
You're right.
I'm sorry.
That's the one we haven't done.
Will it be about time?
Hmm.
Why not?
Why haven't you done that yet?
I mean, we haven't done main gold.
I guess we could.
Yeah, right, of course.
We can't go up and cut.
To like Spielberg.
Do you know?
Yeah.
You can tell if that Spielberg is not very good.
Yeah.
No, I like James Mangold.
I like James Mangold.
I just think that film is not very good.
Yeah, my great.
I honestly like it.
It's kind of a couple of things.
I like it.
I don't, I don't regret liking it.
I think I like it more than Crystal Skull.
I'm putting that out there.
I like Crystal Skull.
I know you guys like Crystal Skull.
I don't really like it very much.
I think both of them have stuff
and fatal fundamental errors in their conception.
And for me, I like slightly more of Skull than Dial.
Oh, and Skull to me is just so much better.
Skull has a point of view.
And Dial, that's the thing.
I felt like.
Very similarly to the, if they had done this conversation,
I think I said this already, but if Indy stays
with Archimedes in the past, I couldn't agree.
It's a conversation.
I'm like, this movie is amazing.
That's the end.
This is an amazing way to end this franchise.
I'm so with you.
I'm like, the cowardice of that movie is that.
Indy, for me is the only reason to go back and make a fifth one.
I just, I thought that would have been clever.
I got excited.
Perfect.
When they were that man-
Nice.
Again, look, you, I will argue for this one more time,
which I hate to him because I don't like the movie very much.
The whole point of the movie is Indiana realizing
he does have something to go home to.
If he, he's saying, I have nothing to go home to.
I want to stay in the past.
The movie ends that way.
It is a bizarre ending to Indiana Jones's story.
And it's brave.
It's not brave.
It's brave.
The whole point is to care now and is like, I know life sucks
and I know you're getting old
and I know Williams died in Vietnam, rip.
Like it would be saluted service.
But you cannot simply just like turn into a Grecian earned bitch,
come home with human beings that you love.
This is why maybe we like the mosquito.
I guess that don't.
But I do like the mosquito.
I think it's a very good movie.
I think it's a very successful movie.
I just don't think it was a commercially appropriate.
It wasn't a good play.
Yeah.
I think it's always great.
I mean, in a way,
I saw movie I like to rewatch.
I have talked with people a lot in the last couple weeks
about Eddington.
I think something about one battle after another,
like knocked Eddington back into people's minds.
As you said, when you guys covered a lot of a lot of on my channel.
Right.
Like that.
Like weird.
Their conversation, their time, like how do we process the last five years movie.
And like I, Eddington hits harder for me
because it is a better reflection of my worldview.
And I don't find the ending of one battle after another,
false or pushed.
I buy it completely.
And I in fact think it's kind of a miracle
that they landed on a Titanic-esque ending
that makes you leave the theater feeling good
for a movie that should just end in Bumerville
in terms of everything it's built for itself.
One battle?
Why would it end in Bumerville?
A lot of bad things are happening in that movie
and continue escalating over and over again.
Right.
Theoretically, you're like,
the resolution of the central emotional conflict of the film
should not be able to solve the external realities of the world
in a way where wherever they've landed, things are still bad.
And they came up with an ending that makes the resolution
of the characters in their lives feel like a triumph for us, the audience.
This is very interesting to be content that this...
Okay, go ahead.
Like old Rose going back to the fucking Titanic and you're like,
Gosh, there's so much I can't say about this.
I'm trying to think of what I can say.
What can't you say?
Just because I know like with the original ending in one battle
was I know a lot of other things.
But I, here's what I can say.
One battle is being called like a movie of the moment
and being described as like a perfect representation
because it's got these migrant detention centers
and it's got this society in the, in the, in the, in the,
in the, in the, in the, the fascism.
Right.
But it was like the levers of fascism are easy to pull it in.
Right.
It's not like it works perfectly for Mr. Lockjaw.
No, but, but Mr. Lockjaw is just a functionary inside of a bigger structure.
Exactly. Like he's able to use certain things.
Exactly.
There are things in a,
really resonate with the world right now.
For the record, you could probably hear this on the,
all the episodes I've done about the movie.
But that is not what makes the movie to me at all.
Like I actually don't, I think that stuff is, is, is very well executed
and very smart and beautifully rendered.
But like I don't care about that stuff as much as I care about the,
the characters, the sense of humor and then the kind of meeting points
of those two things.
Eddington was made specifically to do what you just said,
which is supposed to be literally,
here's how it felt in 2020.
Yep. That is not what Paul was doing.
I am so low to revisit 2020 in any way.
Ben and I saw that together and I'm just like,
this is going so far past poking a bruise.
It has like pushed its finger past the layers of skin.
It is like scratching nerves.
If we're going to go this deep and this throw and really interrogate it,
I'm all here for it.
It's the ultimate feel bad movie.
It ends on a conclusion of probably just beyond fucked,
everything's bad for everyone.
And I watch it and I'm like, I think this was pretty honest.
You know, this makes sense to me.
This all rings true, but it has a sense of humor.
It does.
Eddington's very fun.
The humor is rooted in like solving out things that we all try to.
Eddington is very much like the data center will win.
Right?
Yeah.
Like, you know, and that's great.
And I love Eddington.
I think it's awesome.
I think it's a great movie about 2020.
What metal is, isn't really about 2020 though,
because this movie could have been made 20 years ago.
It's about how like, no, no, we don't give up.
Right.
Like we have children.
We have new generations.
They have new perspectives.
We don't understand this will continue to probably over time.
The magic at the ending is that he's using a cell phone that he's like,
I guess I should engage with the world.
I guess I should belong to whatever's happening here.
And I should let my daughter go figure it out.
That's her time to be in charge of this.
And it's not like she's going to go save the world.
She might go get in trouble.
She might die.
But like, it's like, there's an optimism of like, I need to wake up again.
Right?
Like that's the magic.
Can I say one bad thing?
Where is Eddington?
Of course, Wucky is like, you know, which I love as well.
It's very funny.
What one battle spoiler warning for people who have not seen this movie is spring of
my house.
Right.
Give out a.
I hit someone text me like, Hey, can you explain me?
I don't know if I'm just dumb or and I didn't get this or the movie isn't doing this.
Right.
And we're like the Christmas adventure.
No, what are good and right?
They just want to get rid of street trash and punks.
Note that, you know, you have the emotional reunion of decaprio
on Chase Infinity, your father and daughter, right?
Will Bob and Will cuts to terminate or lock jaw.
Then he's Christmas adventure off the face of the board.
And then you go back to the resolution of everything you're saying.
But truly the first time I saw that movie when Penn gets blast in the face, I was like,
love that.
And then when he's alive, I had this momentary twinge of like, are you sure?
PTA that was a great ending for the character that he gives me the real ending.
And I was like, sorry for saying anything.
I love that trust you, Bob.
I won't talk again.
I agree with your read on the ending scene, right?
Yeah.
But this is more what I want to identify that the text was explained to me how they're
just able to return to normal society.
Everything lock jaw put into motion wouldn't that not be solved by just taking lock jaw off the board.
And I said, there are a couple interpretations I have, right?
You're like, the machinery is already.
He has created this false flag operation to find them to track them down to make up the story of what they've
done.
He's sicked all of the power of the military against them, even if he's off the board, how are they okay?
How do they just go back to the same home and resets of the same life?
And I said, you can either accept it as that is just a device of the sort of level of
farce that the movie has reached at that point of like, it can be represented in a battle
between two people or, you know, my inner plot justification of that is basically at some
point they identified the mess that lock jaw created that it was driven by his own personal
vendetta that was not the use of power.
The Christmas adventures save that and that they cover up everything for everything.
Absolutely.
They are saying in that meeting where they're going to take him out.
They're like, and now he's like, there's the line that one of them repeats was like, they
hit the school where you can tell that they're like, this is too much exposure for us.
This is all this mess for no reason except obviously he wants to be a Christmas adventure.
The question then, we understand.
You walk through dark tunnels to get to this meeting.
Right.
This is a very secret conversation.
With right?
With you on that.
The question on that just becomes, why don't they wipe the two of them out as well?
Because they don't care.
I mean, I think they feel like their work is done.
That's my work.
Yeah.
I mean, I think that the French 75 doesn't interest the Christmas adventures at all.
Not one bit.
They don't have you them as powerful enough to fuck with them.
Of course not.
The French 75 is like defunct at this point.
Right.
It's a lot first and it's a loser.
These are not going to make any change against what they're up to.
And that is a huge part.
I mean, that to me was also a huge part of the point of the movie.
And that I think actually makes it somewhat more philosophically in connection to Eddington.
And I think PTA is definitely like the forces are still more powerful than you.
Damn it.
You can have hope.
Right.
But they're way bigger than what we can do.
They're Christmas adventures.
Didn't waste.
Right.
You don't even see.
And all that.
AI Big Tech.
Occupied the same roles in those two movies.
And the difference is that Eddington ends with a guy who you've watched mosquito
coast himself in the chaos being like a vegetable in a bed having to watch his mother and
log get fuck.
He's right.
It's like even the bad guy lives in hell.
We're all fucked.
And one battle after another is like these two characters have each other.
And they've learned something from this and they have a good perspective.
They live to fight another day and you can't give up hope.
The needle drop at the end of Eddington is so good.
Like there's a lot of talk about the needle drop at the end of one battle, which is
great, very recognizable.
But the Bobby Gentry song courtyard, which is so haunting as you look out onto the AI center.
And you're like, Ari is really good at a final song.
Great.
He's a fireworks in that.
And Maya Keri's song in Bo.
Do we think one battle has one best picture at the time this episode comes out?
Oh, good question.
This episode will come out.
April 19th.
I think so, Sean.
You've seen Marty Supreme, which we have.
There are no crazy release date changes for new releases.
We'll be able to vet this very cleanly in six months.
But I did have having just seen Marty, which is the last big player.
Yes.
Which I don't I don't think is the best.
I think we'll be nominated for best picture, but it's not a contender to win.
That's, but that's, you know,
Kimmy seems to be what everyone says.
I think Shalma is a very good chance to win.
We're recording this two days after the first screening of Marty's party.
I didn't go and went to Tron.
Well, because I think that Marty and sinners will siphon votes from one battle.
They will not siphon from Hamnet.
Well, I haven't seen Hamnet yet.
I shouldn't be so dismissive.
And you know, and I've seen Hamnet.
It just kind of feels like one of the things to the Oscars are like,
we have our finger on the pulse and it's saying Hamnet.
Yes.
I do.
I am already preparing for that nightmare scenario.
Hamnet.
Well, the nightmare scenario was last year Amelia Perez.
That would have been the fully mystery.
Like Hamnet appears to be a well-regarded film.
See, that actually would have been better, at least for my emotional state,
because it would have been so absurd.
Yeah, this doesn't matter.
Like, this is complete nonsense.
Conan comes out and he's like, well, there are no more Oscars.
When I was recording book one, best picture, I was tackling.
I was like, they had an opportunity, the funniest thing.
Yes.
You're in the hellscape and it's just like, let's dance together.
Right, and Amelia Perez would have been that time's 10.
It would have been this.
This is more like, oh yeah, there's like 30 of these in Oscar history.
I was about to say.
It feels like a very obvious Oscar choice.
Right.
It does.
And I have been saying that there is a little bit of saving private Ryan Shakespeare in love
in reverse.
But Shakespeare in love is funny and charming and has kissing.
And it sounds like Hamnet is one battle after another.
I know.
Is that one battle?
Is the Shakespeare in terms of type of movie?
Right.
Hamnet is the Spielberg in terms of her, but it has Shakespeare.
He's over private Ryan was the boomer masterpiece big scale and saving.
They're like the fun house mirror image.
Yeah, because Hamnet, I haven't seen it.
It's not that big scale movie, right?
Right.
And I don't, again, I don't hate it.
And it's not the villain of the year.
Like I do think that that's going to happen pretty quickly where like the bros are going
to be like, Hamnet, what the fuck dude?
And there's there are some beautiful things about Hamnet.
But it winning over the three movies I named that I would be very, I would be unhappy.
I also need a second best picture in five years.
I also think that the people I've spoken to have seen Hamnet.
I've not seen yet.
Hamnet.
Who are the most resistant and the most cynical about it?
No, Ham hat.
The birthday burst boy sketch.
That's best picture worthy.
Absolutely.
Put it up.
You never got a theatrical release.
Could you do a limelight and have it qualified this year?
No, carry out carry out.
The people you've never seen.
The people I know who have seen Hamnet and are the most allergic and resistant to it
are like, and yet I cannot deny the fucking last five minutes.
Last 20 minutes is powerful.
But I'm sorry.
Okay, okay.
There's to be a last 20, last 10 minutes.
Doesn't cheer off the fucking Max Richter track again though.
Dude, that does happen.
Dude, dude, dude, dude.
To me that is, I mean, obviously that as the wallpaper music that hits hard, but it's
just, there's some staging that really works well.
I hadn't read the novel.
I also didn't know it was coming.
I'm pumped for it because I like Shakespeare.
Yes.
And if you do, this is a good movie about liking Shakespeare.
No, I don't like children in peril though.
Well, that's what I'm a little worried about.
Have some bad news.
You might have a tough go.
Thanks.
Mosquito Ghost does also as children in peril though they all pull through.
That is the happy ending of the movie is the children are the right guy out of peril.
And you have Phoenix gets to be indie because of this movie.
Exactly.
Wouldn't it be even say that?
Yeah, for sure.
That's the connection.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
And then it leads to them both being in running an empty.
That's right.
A movie.
A door.
Great movie back in the conversation because it went bad very similar.
Yeah.
Um, this film and we're going to do the OOO one piece of news breaking on deadline.
I want you guys to hear a Susha running her to her.
Will he playing the horse in her husband and wants to get dinner with me?
No, he appears to be happily married and newly has a baby.
And they've got a great new Nostroler that I've seen them operating around the operatic
new.
And Nina Rafa.
I think it looks like a Robert of me.
Now, I personally, I have a baby's and I'm a city guy.
I needed a lightweight stroller.
But we have a baby's end as well.
They're great.
A double?
Well, though, our double stroller is a, I forget what it's called.
I mean, that thing.
There's no, there's no lightweight double stroller.
Unfortunately, we got about as lightweight as you get, but it's a, um, the Susha running
will be playing Linda McCartney in Sam Mendes's The Beatles of four film cinematic
event.
That feels like something she doesn't need to do.
I was going to say the casting seems appropriate, but, uh, does she really need to do that?
The big four, I get it.
Those are plum rolls.
No disrespect to the lake, right?
Linda McCartney.
Little overqualified.
That must tell us specifically what era were in men in the film.
Yeah.
But although I think maybe we'll each film be in a different era or something.
I thought that was the idea.
Maybe it's not.
Maybe it's over a long period of time.
I thought it was, I thought they were going to, or is it like Zerika?
You have to play them all together and they all sync up as with four film.
Yeah, Mike Myers is playing all four.
I hope each movie is one unbroken two hour close-up shot of the same conversation.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
A continuous conversation.
You got to see the next three to make sense of this.
Yeah.
It's just the meeting where they try to name the band.
And so you watch the book and then he only says something once every 25 minutes like eating
a sandwich.
Oh, this is good.
Okay.
You guys don't do, don't do the box office game.
I need to pee.
Okay.
Should we talk while you pee?
Yeah.
And Sean, lighter than the bathroom thing coming.
Griff, have you seen any other sort of fall films yet?
I don't think so.
You know, I'm a, yeah, your blankies, your blankies ballot remains, you know, it's just
going to start to gather steam.
But I'm saying I'm a plea by go see films with the working people of America.
Or occasionally you got to bite it to a fancy screening.
Yeah.
I'm not that many.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I feel like what's the worst film you've seen this year?
That's a good question.
Mr. P nut sitting very happily at the bottom of my list.
I still have not visited the electric state.
Believe me, man, you're going to fire that movie up and be like, yes, I know it will be
bad.
But like, it's an action movie.
Like it'll be watchable.
Like, right?
Yeah.
And it's like, it will be really hard to focus on it.
My bottom list, I feel like I did some reorganizing recently.
My bottom film I have right now, I got, I got a pretty tight bottom five.
And I'd say the order of these five is a little interchangeable.
Can I guess the Jurassic World rebirth is down there?
Absolutely down there.
Uh, no, no, no, no, just rickshaw president right now I have Brave New World in the dead
last five.
That's one to defend where I was even like thinking between Jurassic World and
Brave New World and I'm like, Jurassic World is well shot.
Yeah, it looks alright.
Like Brave New World looks bad.
This is true.
It has nothing I can recommend.
I'm not even like, you know,
you know who's good in a supporting role.
Like no one scores it.
Forts better in it than anyone else.
And yet I wouldn't be like, he punches through.
And then the rest of my bottom five is sneaks.
The CGI animated film.
Oh, with talking sneakers.
The crab and see that one.
Martin Lawrence plays an old-time or sneaker
in a performance I would describe as awake.
Good.
I'm glad they got them all.
Snow White isn't my bottom five.
That's in my bottom five.
Two notes.
No disrespect for our queen Rachel.
And then all to nights.
Right.
I haven't checked in with those nights.
That's my real like terror bottom five.
That was my and sneaks.
I will admit I had perverse fun watching,
but I cannot pretend it is good in anyway.
The other four I was like those.
The other four are like major corporate art that failed, you know?
Yes.
For sure.
Because you're in bottom five's of 2025.
Yeah, I just asked him when he had somewhere in the bathroom.
What best actor field of this year in the 19th?
I know Ford never had a shop, but I wouldn't.
Certainly not put him in the desk.
But he got a he got him.
I think he got like a Golden Globe not maybe Denise.
They wanted him to show up.
Yeah, I mean, that was through gridded.
I can't believe you would say that the Golden Gloves
behave in such a brave and manner in the 1980s.
It looks like it got Golden Globe nominations for best actor
and best score, Maurice Jarrer,
who also did a wonderful score for witness,
which I feel like we didn't shout out.
A very sentient witness score.
The Oscar nominees that year to good year.
This is the POTUNIA.
But Charlie Sheen does not get nomination.
As Charlie Sheen would put it,
I won best picture at 20 and I wasn't even warm yet.
It is a phrasing I think about all the time.
I won best picture.
Well, you know what phrasing I think about.
Flip the menu. Flip the menu.
Did you hear that?
Charlie Sheen talking about experimenting
with the sexuality sexuality.
He flew away.
He said like, I flipped the menu.
I flipped the menu.
Which I just thought was perfect.
He's been hours looking at the front of the menu
and you go, what else is on the back?
You haven't watched the doc, right?
No, I haven't.
Flip the menu is a 10 minute conversation.
That sounds good.
And he is hot committed to that one metaphor.
I'm glad he could be.
He could be.
It's good.
And they're like, so what kind of things did you do with men?
And he's like, well, you know, on the back of the menu,
there's a desserts.
Like, he just, everything is filtered through the menu.
We saw the poll quote of the menu thing
and we were obsessed with it.
And then it's so much better the way it plays out.
I gotta watch that.
I gotta flip the menu.
The Oscar nominees that year were
Paul Newman for the Color of Money.
He wins.
He wins.
Bob Hoskins for Mona Lisa,
who is sort of the critics pick of the year.
A wonderful performance.
And he was always arguing that in any other year,
he would have won.
Oh, one might.
Yeah.
I'm super Mario.
I thought it wasn't for the career slip of one.
I'm gonna get King Cooper.
Yeah.
It's good to talk.
Mushroom makes me a little taller.
Just a little bit.
Yeah.
Like, we're almost related to me.
Does that make sense?
Oh, thanks.
Neither one of us is Italian.
You got Dexter Gordon for Round Midnight.
It was a really cool combination.
Like, and that's kind of a cool movie.
You know, right.
I like that movie a lot,
but it is wild that's so little bit.
He sacked it up, baby.
He's got fun.
That's the same.
William Runs,
Harvignon, great director.
Yeah.
Like, it's cool that that movie got acknowledged.
William Hurt for Children of Alessar Gods.
I think this is his third nomination in like,
three years or a second Spider Woman.
I think it's maybe Spider Woman,
then Children, then broadcast.
I can't remember.
He's in his hot pier.
He's just one best actor the year before.
Yes, correct.
And then James Woods for Salvador.
Really good performance by a normal guy.
A Z channel nomination.
That's part of the big narrative of that doc
is that that movie came out and flopped
and then found such a second life within six months
on Z channel that it was the big surprise
that that got in there.
He's excellent.
And that rocks in that movie.
He's an amazing actor.
Do you not feel like there's something?
But I would, I would sub out.
You know, I heard get, you know, whatever.
Get him out of here.
Do you not feel like to some degree we talked about,
despite him being totally deserving of that nomination,
there was something a little condescending
in the Academy being like,
congratulations, Harrison Ford.
We take you seriously now
that you're not doing little boy shit, right?
With witness.
With witness, right?
They're like, we're giving you an Oscar
not just for the performance,
but for thank you for growing up
and being like an adult serious actor.
And this is like, no, no, two adults.
Truly.
And then they never nominated him again.
They never nominated again.
I, my question to that is when would they have?
The fugitives, the most obvious one.
Obviously, you know, that's the one where it's like,
well, I movie got a best-piction nomination.
Like, you know my argument.
What is it?
That's supporting actor Martin Glory.
I need eggs from a chicken.
I, you know, his, his clearest Oscar bait
is regarding Henry.
That's the film.
And that would even go over.
It didn't go.
Like all my Ford gnomes are like,
end with mosquito coasters.
I think, and my spreadsheet.
No, I just gave him the credit for Han Solo
and Indiana Jones and all the shit
just are fed up for Blabberna.
Up until that point.
And then it feels like witness.
They're like, congratulations.
You've entered the room.
And I'm a mosquito coast.
They're like, no, you're place.
My not to just being a matinee idol.
My nominees are your Hoskins and Newman
plus Kurt Russell, big trouble in the little China.
Cool.
Jeff Goldblum in the fly and Ford.
Yeah.
Oh, you do put Ford in there.
Yeah.
Great.
I respect you.
I like, I like Gene Hackman and Hoosiers that year.
But that's another kind of like.
Never been a Hoosiers guy.
White.
I really love the first half hour of Hoosiers.
Yeah, I know.
The rest of it, I'm like, it's good.
But like just the whole like guys in a barn,
it's five in the morning.
All that shit's good.
Despite working for Bill Simmons for like 15 years,
I've just never been a Hoosiers guy.
And Bill likes Hoosiers.
But I feel like he respects me.
He respects me at a time.
He loved it.
He has pointed out its many flaws.
It has.
I think he has a big relationship to it.
I like that.
And you know, that's a weird one too,
because Hopper was nominated that year,
but not for Frank Booth.
He was nominated for Hoosiers.
But he's got a new, he's got to be provided them
with a safer nomination option.
Yes.
But Frank Booth would have been an absolutely sick
to make an omniscient.
Very true.
The box office.
Yeah.
No, it's because I need the box office.
This movie did not perform well.
No, it did not.
It opens on Thanksgiving, which I'm not sure how I,
I'm not sure about that decision.
Yeah.
Do you like that decision?
I think Thanksgiving released
didn't mean the same thing it meant back then
that it does today.
I suppose so.
I think that's more of an Oscar confidence.
Right.
And also of course it's, you know, limited release.
Yeah.
But so it's not in the top five, of course.
I'm just saying it's not like in 86,
they were like, we're hoping mosquito coasters
clear 60 million for the five day.
No, they were not.
It's number one at the box office.
It's not a movie that our family's gonna want to see together.
And I think we might have done this box office
because number one is a movie we covered on Patreon.
It's the fourth film in a beloved franchise.
It's sort of the biggest hit.
This franchise is a bad.
It's Star Trek, where the voyage home?
Wales.
Wales, San Francisco.
It's Star Trek for Plummer or is that three?
That's six.
Six.
Yeah.
Lloyd is three.
Okay.
Okay.
And four is the one where they go back in time to San Francisco
and there's Wales.
Yes, of course.
Right.
Four, four, it was sort of pleasant.
Our wicked ways.
Like, you know, four is a movie that anyone can see without really any knowledge of Star
Trek or fire.
It's a lot of comedy.
It's a lot of comedy.
It's good.
Okay.
It's not my favorite because it's the least sci-fi.
It's six.
I love.
Sean, do you know the story of how they landed on the premise for four?
Eddie Murphy, under contract at Paramount, talks about how much he loves Star Trek and
that he'd like to be in a Star Trek movie and they're like, fuck, what's a premise
where we could have Eddie Murphy with the Star Trek Bridge crew doing his modern day.
He can't be five.
He can't be five.
Right.
So they were like, oh, they go through a wormhole and come back to 80s San Francisco and
Eddie Murphy's there with them.
And then Eddie Murphy was like, I don't want to be a fucking fifth leading a Star Trek
movie.
And so they rewrite his part to be the mom from seventh heaven.
Oh, wow.
Who is there like present day San Francisco ally and becomes a love interest, but that
was meant to be Eddie Murphy.
And Eddie said, I'll make Pluto Nash.
Well, Eddie said I'll make the Golden Child, which is this 86 movie.
Not a good film.
Not a bad one.
Not a bad one.
Watch her for the first time.
It's recently.
Yeah, more like the Michael Ridge, what happened, bro?
Ron's child.
He needs to be beautiful.
It's a weird move from Richie.
Number two is an animated film that is not produced by those cowards at Disney.
Is it a blue?
Yeah.
Is it the rats of now?
It's not.
It's the second film, I believe.
It's not land before time.
I think that's third.
I can't remember the order.
It must be an American tale.
It's an American tale.
So it's so funny.
Bring this up because my, as we are recording my wife and daughter flying to New York City
from Los Angeles.
They're going to see that.
That's big green legacy out there window.
They sure will.
And my wife said, can you send me all the letterbox lists you made regarding Alice?
So there is a public list of all the things that she has seen.
And then there are a couple of private lists that are things that she could see at some
point.
That is possible, Alice.
I think this will work for her.
My wife loves Anastasia.
Done Anastasia.
And wants to show it to her.
We have not yet done it.
And we haven't done any of the blue.
I was about to say Anastasia, like all blues, it's just a little scarier than those Disney
lists.
It is.
It is.
It's just a little more intense.
But we, so I went, I made a, I made a, I made a blue letterbox list and I was like, where
do we go first?
Is it, is it American tale?
Is it land before time?
I think it's one of those two.
You start with height now.
Of course.
No.
No.
She's a huge demon head though.
So that'll, you know, it really fell out her demon head.
I mean, he drivers.
She loves the job.
He didn't pass on anything.
An Edland.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We, uh, and then I did realize she has seen Thumbelina.
Oh, that's right.
Which kind of things.
That's a blue.
Yeah.
Sort of theaters.
American tale is kind of scary though.
Much like killing him before time.
It's just a little scary.
It's also emotionally intense.
Yeah.
It is.
Yeah.
But I saw it when I was a kid and I fucking loved it.
I loved it in America.
Yeah.
You maybe, do you start with Fible going west?
Do you go west first?
That's so confusing.
We're like, we're surgially owning in reverse, right?
It's like, you gotta go once upon a time in America first.
She hasn't met, then you gotta go west.
She hasn't met Fible.
She hasn't had the reference base.
I definitely saw West first.
I did too, because I think it was in theaters.
You guys actually.
You guys actually.
You guys actually.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Number three of the box office, the film we've covered as well.
And I already mentioned it.
It was one of the biggest hits of the year.
We already covered it.
Yep.
On Patreon.
Normal app.
Normal app.
Something went awry.
No, we've just been insane in COVID.
Okay.
So it's a COVID commentary.
Yeah.
It's not aliens.
No, 1986.
I mean, aliens is, is 1986.
I guess.
Yeah.
It's 1986.
COVID and Sandy.
It's Crocodile Dundee.
Maybe the best single day of podcasting we've ever done.
Absolutely.
It was like, we are riding high and then we are not.
It is like, what was the other episode that day?
Crocodile Dundee.
We were in two and then Crocodile Dundee in Los Angeles.
We did the whole trilogy all in one day.
I think we used to do a little bit more.
Yeah.
Basically, first of the first child, my memory is that was one of our last records A before your
child was born and B before the COVID vaccine was announced.
That's right.
So it was right at that kind of threshold of like, is it another year of this?
The woke vaccine to be clear.
Right.
And we were like, let's just knock out all three of these in a row over Zoom and we lose our
fucking minds.
First one's good.
Have you seen it?
Crocodile Dundee.
Yeah.
The first one is good.
I mean, have you seen it lately, I guess.
Not since I was 14, but I remember enjoying it quite a bit.
Very enjoying.
First one's so I've seen and thought was okay.
Two.
Two opens as well as any movie is ever opened.
This is your win dynamite.
It's incredible.
And the husband river.
That's right.
And then it becomes his bad.
It's a Rambo rip.
It's a people rip.
And it barely has jokes.
That's the origin of that's not a knife.
That's a knife.
That's the first one.
That's the first one.
That's the first one.
They run the subway.
They run it back.
They run everything back.
Yeah.
But everything I kind of happens in the first movie.
Nothing I kind of happens in the second movie except fishing with dynamite and the Hudson
River.
Did you know that famed fantasy football expert Matthew Berry wrote crocodile, the undying
Los Angeles?
But we definitely covered that.
Yeah, we did.
Like to the point that I was like, is Wikipedia misleading?
Nope.
It's accurate.
Like is this a broken link?
Those episodes also led to one of Ben's greatest ideas.
A key Ben should be running Hollywood.
Why is he not never development meeting?
Oh, right.
Moment.
We're during crocodile.
And the Los Angeles was just based around him having a young son.
Ben said, why isn't his son a knife?
Just a giant knife.
A knife with legs and arms.
That sounds like something that Sora can make for you right now.
Exactly.
Easy.
No, we want that handmade quality.
I assume Sora is like the new head of Ampest by this point.
Number fourth box office.
It's a re-release of a Disney film.
I assume it's Sean's favorite film.
Oh, I know this as well.
You assume it's Sean's favorite.
So that's a backhanded joke.
It's a backhanded joke.
Yeah.
Song of the South.
1986 Disney decided we need to hear the song again.
We know jokes now, Griffin.
No, this is what I was going to say.
I've never seen this.
I've only seen Sipredi Duda, which was included on a VHS.
I've seen that I had that was like a compilation of songs.
How Chepatito video had a great time.
And I would say my parents like this movie.
And there would be like stop-ass.
Same question.
Almost dirt.
I don't know when the Disney channel started,
but I can, I feel pretty confident that we taped this off the Disney channel.
It's probably, you know, was, and had a VHS.
Still being re-release.
In the 80s.
Right.
It just never got an American home video race.
It did in other countries I saw.
But like, it is straight up available to rent a video tech on the East Side of Los Angeles right now.
Yeah.
I feel like, and doing that doesn't put you on any kind of list.
I haven't done it, so I wouldn't know.
I feel like I'm just telling people that if they would like to, they can.
And we need shared a story recently on Doe Boys about Michael Jackson stealing the laser desk copy,
the video store he worked at had.
No, I was just going to say when I went into my memory palace,
I was trying to think of a good example, but the, the fantasy joke setup of putting, forcing the opinion on the other person on Mike.
Right.
Right.
You do, you do to Chris.
This sort of like CR congrats on Jimmy Kimmel getting kicked off the pair.
Finally, you're trying to prove.
Please don't demystify all of my moves.
I only have three.
I need you to just keep those tight.
And if you can just carve that out, I'd really appreciate it.
I've got very little to go on these days.
Good.
Good.
Number five of the box office we've also mentioned in one best actor this year.
It's like a sequel.
Color mine.
Yep.
Which is really good.
Yes.
That is a movie that I spent my whole childhood thinking was bad or kind of whatever because its rap was like.
Yeah, they gave, you know, Paul Newman an apology Oscar.
Yeah, to make a sequel to the hustler.
Marty was suddenly watching.
You're like better than basically any movie that is.
It's a box.
It's the most fun to start movies.
I've seen.
Yeah.
I know we've been going for a while, but I now need to ask this question.
Okay.
What would Harrison's color of money be?
Obviously, it's not a literal legacy because he's done those and those are.
Don't every legacy.
No, not like a sequel.
I'm saying, what is the movie that would make them go fuck?
We have to give Harrison for the.
John book.
It's a good point.
It's John book.
Like bring book back.
I'm like, what is the type of role?
Who would he work with?
Is there an existing figure?
A fucking like, drinking material, but drinking the movie.
But doesn't it have to be witnessed because he already played this character?
Yeah.
I'm moving the legacy.
I mean, I mean, I guess you're talking about him working with a real director on a non-legacy
sequel thing.
Right.
He's become the king of the legacy.
So I'm putting that aside.
I'm more saying the feeling of color money coming out and people being like, what are we
supposed to do?
Not give him the Oscar.
I do think that 42 is probably as close as he gets.
Yeah.
And he's like a 20 layer ham sandwich in that movie.
And that movie is like just okay.
I'm the president of baseball.
President of the Dodgers.
I expect you to not.
I just feel like everyone that locked into the movie.
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like to reclaim right now on the podcast.
You before we recorded you sounded.
I haven't said now.
I've been thinking about 1986 and the landscape of films
and what made me laugh when I first saw it
as I was rediscovering.
I won't let you have a soul man.
We all know that Paul Newman stole C. Thomas Howe's Oscar.
Number nine, stand by me.
A film I will admit is sort of similar to the Goonies
for me.
I have never been able to really get into it.
So funny.
You say that.
One of the other podcasts that I did this week
The New York Times book podcast and the subject was
non-horror Stephen King film adaptations.
Was it with Gilbert?
It was with Gilbert.
I was super fan.
Of course Gilbert, one of the world renowned Stephen King
experts and a mutual friend of ours.
And Gilbert kind of set up the episode by saying the exact same thing
because for me, I don't really care about Stephen.
I mean, that's not a big movie for me.
It's just, yeah, it's just one of those things where I'm like,
well, I wasn't there.
I wasn't there for this movie.
And I wasn't there for the nostalgic era.
It evokes.
I don't think I think the kids are good in it.
Right.
And I think it like strikes the correct tone.
But it's definitely generational past those things.
I think many people our age and younger have claimed it as their own
after discovering it for the first time in a 10-room or whatever.
Yeah, never for me.
Never for me.
But talk about a fucking River Phoenix.
You know, 100% River Phoenix just happened.
Totally happening.
He's really good in that movie.
And then number 10 is Top Gun.
The biggest movie of the year.
Yep, absolutely.
And when this was released, Top Gun was number 10 at the box office.
Top Gun was released in May.
Yeah, yeah.
It's a different time.
Top Gun has made 166 mil domestic at this point.
So yeah, but of course, mosquito coast, you would think made nothing,
but actually, you know, it ends up well.
No, $10 million.
Yeah, it's not very good.
No, 14, 14 domestic total.
Yeah.
So yeah, pretty fast.
And it cost 40?
It costs like 20 something, but still like, I think they could not recoup money.
Right.
So which is fine.
It's okay.
Harrison Ford tended to make really successful films.
And we're goes on from this to dead poets.
Or is there something in between?
No, it's dead poets.
Yeah, he was doing dead poets.
Do you guys know?
Need a cost?
It's hard to be in record.
I told that because it's in the can.
That's a spoiler.
Is that a big movie for her?
Yeah, it's a big movie for her and she went to a boarding school like that.
I wanted to be a poet.
Really?
Yeah, we get into all of it.
It's a good episode.
Okay.
No, that was a good episode.
We had fun.
We've been potting so long.
And I'm sorry, Sean, you've really been subjected to a lot of us this week.
No, I enjoy it and I've been delighting in it.
I know you enjoy it, but it's the final of four recordings that I have done with you
are, man, the first, yes.
No, I'm very, I hope that your listeners are okay with a divorced and double-exposed
big picture situation.
Well, I was like, think this actually is timing out well in that the live episode we did
has published and then my episode that I did on Big Picture will come out soon.
And then these will come out six months later.
So it's like, you know, it's not overlaid.
And then it's Big Picture Week on Blank Check.
And then we got to, what are you doing next, Solo?
That's a good question.
I mean, let me get back to you on that.
Okay, think about it.
I might, I might just do one.
I don't know, release calendar.
But yes, no, there will be a back-to-back Big Picture run on this podcast six months
from now.
Like, um, I wanted to do a deep dive in the Harmony Curin.
I'm down.
Deep dive into it.
How so?
How do you feel?
The whole of the choreography, we could just like go through the new stuff.
Were you out on kids?
I'm obsessed.
Okay.
I bought into the umbrella.
I bought into the umbrella.
The hard back.
For listeners at home, they can't see me, but I'm gyrating.
Okay.
Where are you at on Beachbomb?
Beachbomb is like fun.
I think it stuck with me that one.
Like, it feels very like I've been spoken weed all day and let's like, let's just hang
out.
Okay, here's the big question.
Where are you at on Baby Invasion?
Okay.
So one recently, because I was talking shit on it, I like haven't really watched any of
his like weird VR AI, whatever edge word.
Yeah, exactly.
I haven't watched any of it, but someone was like, listen, he's always been a cutting-edge
filmmaker.
Give it a chance.
I'm just like, just don't regurgitate what everyone else is saying.
But there definitely comes a point where when if that's your thing and you're getting older,
you might not be able to do it anymore.
Like, be on the cutting edge.
Like, yeah.
Yeah, I just might not hit in the same way it would maybe for someone who's, you know,
Gen Z.
I do think that any edge-lord production commentary from you guys would be amazing.
Amazing.
The light.
My hat hurts.
I grow drift.
I'm leaving.
Like, I am the world's greatest assassin.
Have you seen that?
As you guys see now, I'm a rich.
I have not.
If edge-lord runs its court soon enough, we could just do edge-lord as a patriarch.
Yeah, they get like, assuming it doesn't.
I haven't seen baby invasion yet, but I saw aggro drift in theaters.
And it was an experience.
It was an experience.
Very good.
Okay.
So Harmony, Curtain, that's what you want to do.
I'd love.
Okay.
Those films are like not available.
I do.
I really don't want to touch a lot of them.
If gummo is in the criterion collection now, but, you know, Julian Donkey Boy, where do
you get that?
YouTube, baby.
YouTube.
I bet.
That has to be coming from someone at some point.
Right.
Yeah, where's my dogma box?
My dogma steal.
I swear to you.
My dogma 95.
You like the criterion issue?
Oh, well, dogma I was going to say.
We know where to call it.
We know where to call it.
Dogma, but dogma.
Umbrella.
Dogma.
Beaming included.
Thank you for being here.
So, so fun.
Everyone should listen to Big Picture and Harmony Corinne Month coming to main feed soon.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
A true deep dive, but Ben Solo episodes.
You weren't going to be on it.
You and I met both on the kitchen.
I saw Julian around for the mini series this year.
You let Ben go off about Harmony Corinne twice a week for a month.
I'm just doing popper.
We're just way bullying.
Yeah.
I'll talk to Bill Simmons about that.
I'll say this.
This is far off.
Can I do the fucking masters of the universe episode with you guys?
I would love nothing.
I think we got to do that.
Right?
That's what it is.
That sounds so good.
Okay.
So, let's say that.
Booked.
Thank you all for listening.
Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe.
Tune in next week for Dead Poets Society.
No.
With you to Costa.
Yeah.
Queen of the Bone Temple herself.
You'll have seen it.
You'll have seen it.
You'll have moved in.
Bones.
And as always.
I'm completely blanking.
What are the best bits we've done in this episode?
Everyone's just on their laptop now.
Yeah, I want to do some spin three hours.
Come on.
It's our presence.
I hope that listeners think of me when they're going to the bathroom.
There you go.
I mean, look, honestly, they do.
Because it's a podcast and people listen to podcasts while they're peeing.
It's turd music.
Lankcheck with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims.
Our executive producer is me, Ben Hossley.
Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas.
And our associate producer is AJ McKeein.
This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeein and Alan Smithy.
Research by JJ Birch.
Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel, with additional music
by Alex Mitchell.
Artwork by Joe Bowen, Oli Moss and Pat Reynolds.
Our production assistant is Minick.
Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help.
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