AOC, Francesca Hong, and the Battle for the Democratic Party. Plus: Stephen A. Smith, Journalist?

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Dead!

A back in Los Angeles.

New York month is over.

Not for me.

You're now in the New York office.

Yeah, it's true.

This is very exciting.

I wrapped up my East Coast residency.

So we're looking for...

With a family trip to Boston.

Amazing.

Have you done the Boston trip recently?

Okay.

Let me give you the absolutely on the nose family things to do in Boston.

Okay.

Regina Pizza in Boston's North End.

It's kind of just the the Boston Pizza spot.

I'm sure they're better ones.

Save your emails.

I don't care.

The Freedom Trail Tour,

where someone in colonial dress takes you to Samuel Adams grave

and the side of the Boston massacre.

Freedom Trail evokes something else for me.

What am I thinking of?

That doesn't...

It looks like Freedom Trail is like the founding of our country.

But go ahead.

It was one of those famous American landmarks

that I didn't know much about.

Uh-huh.

Till arriving in Boston.

And I was like, yeah, of course you do the Freedom Trail.

Yeah, of course you do.

The Freedom Trail.

I learned all about it while it was going on.

I'm an idiot, all right.

Boston Common, we went there.

But most importantly, I went to the legendary Brattle Bookshop.

Yes.

Which was just a couple of blocks from my hotel.

Now there is a gentleman who works at Brattle Bookshop.

Zach Marconi, who's a great friend of this podcast

and a friend of mine as well.

So my son was in there with me and he took us to the basement.

And I'll put this picture up on Instagram so people can see it.

But all the books they're going to go out to the Crells next to Brattle Bookshop.

Oh yeah.

Brattle, you have an empty lot with Crells full of books.

It costs $5 or $3.

There were thousands.

And I mean thousands of books stacked up at the basement

and I need to go out to the Crells that had not been looked over by human eyes other than Zach's.

Right.

We saw those.

There was a stack, and this is me telling you how great this bookstore is.

There was a stack of 6,000 copies, yes, 6,000 copies of Life Magazine in the basement of the Brattle Bookshop.

That's what you're going to say, catch her in the ride.

Go ahead.

All waiting to be picked over.

I bought a number of copies of 80s and 90s time magazine, which is more

than a year and a half.

You're a nice thing rather than old issues of life with no Roseville.

Yeah, it's funny how the more disposable media has,

the medium has become is just like a more fun thing to carry around and page through,

you know, just like the novelty of it.

Yes.

And why do you think that is?

Is it because of the moment in time?

Yeah, books are great books are timeless.

And also we've just been around long.

The idea of being shocked by a certain printing of a book.

You know me, like I'll see if I back in the day if I saw a cover of a book that I've made,

the British paperback edition, and be like 100% on buying that, you know.

But I've kind of seen most of the stuff now, you know, and there's not a,

there's certainly, there's not, I mean, there's nothing that's going to like shock me too much.

But an old magazine, you're just like, oh my god, like this happened.

These two things happened on the same day.

It's a great thing about a magazine when they have like the multiple headlines, you know, on the front,

or you're just like, those two things connect somehow, but it's only this issue of Esquire that connects,

you know, that connects them.

It's, it's pretty cool.

So most men when they get into their middle age, start getting into jazz.

You and I got in the old magazines.

Yes.

Is that what happened?

Totally.

I lost you and I just did a whole podcast about this.

And speaking of amazing moments in time, he gave me the issue of entertainment weekly that was published right after 9-11.

Oh my god.

Just imagining Ryan Raftry and the whole cast of entertainment weekly being like, okay, what's our, what's our bite at the sapo?

Do you have a book by the way, doing that so that you would buy, even if you already have it, no matter where you are.

Is there like you have that catcher in the right, like, you know,

crazy person has a million copies of Christian, the right thing.

Paul Thru's travel hugs.

Yeah.

I have bought so many copies.

Yeah.

And I've forgotten how many copies I bought.

So now I'm buying triples when I thought I was buying doubles.

Mm-hmm.

If that makes any sense, what's yours?

Well, along those lines, you know, as a designer, I love like the series design.

But because of the series design, I have bought duplicate and triplicate of

McFee James Harrison, Jim Harrison.

Sorry.

I'm trying to think if there's any other ones.

Oh, certainly Jim Thompson.

You know, where it's just like you see, you're like, I don't know if I've read that one.

You know, and it's like, you get home.

It's like, oh, I have four copies and here's the one with its highlight it.

You know, like, but it's, I clearly have.

For me,

what true grid is the one?

I, I, I published.

I was fortunate to work at a small press that had republished a lot of Charles Portis back in the day.

And so part of that is that you constantly, like you're, we ordered old copies, you know,

just to have them in the office for reference.

Old paperbacks, old hard covers.

And then some of them ended up in my possession.

And then for some reason, it's true grid has so many cool old additions that I would just pick them up all the time.

The mass market, whatever.

And now it's just reflex.

If I see true grid, you know, pre-modern addition of true grid, I buy it.

And dog of the South too.

Do you buy that as a gift for someone or are you just stacking them all up on your shelf?

No, I just want to keep them.

I want to keep them away from everybody else by owning the buy cornering the market.

You're trying to drive up the price of gold.

Exactly.

No, I mean true grid is that.

I mean, I love true grid is Robbie Portis's best book.

But it's so different than all this other stuff.

Like dog of the South is the real secret handshake.

You know, dog of the South is the one that like I would give as a gift.

And people would be.

Would be, you know, so I mean also all of the one that I give as a gift a lot is James crumbly.

James crumbly is trilogy.

If you ever find that as one unit, I will get that in hand that the people because that's an incredible one.

But yeah, but no, I usually just buy it to award.

One of my friends pressed a James crumbly book into it.

My hands a couple years ago and I have I've loved him even more than I already did before that.

All right.

So if you see a scarcity of Charles Portis novels at Brattle Bookshop or elsewhere,

Blaze, blame David and sent him your emails.

And also the second and third best pizza restaurants in Boston.

Please direct those to David as well.

Coming up on the press box, David and I are going to dive into the battle between these centrist and the lefties that's

Royaling only in journalism, the Democratic party.

Plus a monster Washington post scoop is Steven A Smith, a journalist.

And is it finally Greg Olson's time to get a big job?

All that much more on the press box, a part of the ringer podcast network.

Hello media consumers.

It's Brian Curtis from LA.

It's David Chumaker from New York.

It's producers.

Isaiah Blakely and John not bones Jones with you.

David, let me give you a couple of discrete news events.

Abdul El Sayed one in Michigan last week.

He did by the time people hear this podcast for Ancestka Hong, maybe the Democratic nominee for governor in Wisconsin.

Correct.

A democratic socialist of America, Cochair is still pondering a question from David Remnik.

Even more people, David are angry at James Carville.

And Thanksgiving may have been canceled.

All of those are scenes from the battle for the Democratic party.

The soul of the Democratic party.

Oh, that's a good one.

You know, I first heard that when Jesse Jackson was running against, was it Jesse Jackson versus Bill Clinton?

Was that posed as the battle for the soul of the Democratic party?

So, phrase, I'm.

If Jackson was a last man standing, I like that could very well be true.

Hearing, hearing just about my entire life.

I thought we'd go into some further scenes from this battle, which is playing out right now in front of America.

Let's start with AOC.

She was on ABC's this week with Jonathan Carl.

Good job winning the Sunday booking wars Johnny Carl.

And of course, Carl asked the question, are you thinking about running for president in 2028?

Or maybe running for Senate since Chuck Schumer is 75 and will be up for your election in two years?

Yeah.

And AOC responded, I think that anything is possible at this juncture.

She was also asked about Francesca Hong, the likely Democratic nominee for governor in Wisconsin.

Here's what she said about Hong.

My understanding is that is that Francesca Hong has made clear her present stances to her.

Yeah, she's moved away from.

Right.

And I have a local city councilman that has this saying, woke one was crazy.

The one was crazy.

Woke one was crazy.

That phrase got a whole bunch of attention on Twitter.

By the way, as an interviewer of politicians, myself, if an amateur one,

when a politician takes you to a place like that, you're just absolutely grateful.

Oh, yeah.

Because you don't even have to attempt the transition.

That's what I was going to say, because you have further to go or because you just already know you already got there.

You already got there.

Yeah.

I mean, could Jonathan Carl have said, hey, you know, by the way, you once mused about defunding the police.

Yeah.

Now you're in a different place politically.

Yeah, he could have asked her that.

I'm not sure he gets there or gets there as gracefully.

But when she says the words woke one, it's like, oh, speaking of which, I'd love to ask you to.

Mm-hmm.

About some of your past statements.

Yeah.

Just like we talked about, friend Jessica Hong.

So here was the follow up and here is how AOC talked about the so-called woke one period American life.

I mean, didn't move it too far with some of those positions.

I mean, you briefly supported the idea of defunding the police.

Well, you know, I think that during this time and during, especially during COVID, there was a huge opening of the over-term window.

We were shut down.

There was some of the highest unemployment rates that we have seen because of those shutdowns.

Yeah.

And I think that the doors were really open in trying to entertain any and every policy that was going to get us to a better place.

And I actually think that the discussions that had that were had in that time were quite fruitful.

I think that when we talk about crime today, it's fundamentally different than the way that we talked about crime and bringing crime down, right?

And I think that we all share in the goals of having as low a crime rate as possible.

I think that, you know, during lockdown, of course, rhetoric in that time is not rhetoric that we would use today.

It's hopeful that these candidates have the opportunity to present who they are to their electorate and what they're campaigning on in this moment.

So that's the fuller answer that a lot of people commenting on AOC's answer did not either hear or at least refer to.

What did you make of her talking about her past positions and past positions of allies?

I think that when she said the words, woke one was crazy not to oversimplify it because obviously the opposite of what you just said, but there was something in her face that was really telling.

I don't think I can really parse it out.

We haven't seen enough of the AOC.

And I think we're going to see an increasing amount of, I don't know if it's going to be, you know, hunter Biden levels, but the but the carl interviews kind of felt like the campaign kickoff or we'll look back on it that way.

It'll be what it will always be the best get for so many of these comfort for all these media outlets, but I think it'll be a lot less scarce on national platform is moving forward my own guess.

So you think she's going to do a lot of interviews, but it'll be like the majority report rather than your conventional Sunday morning Jake Tapper type of interview.

Yeah, I just think that she will that now this is my guess is that this will be the beginning of her willingness to say yes to interviews where they will be asking her about whether she's running for higher office.

So all interviews.

Yeah, I mean, no, but I think that I think there will be a lot of majority report type stuff. I think that she'll just be that she's just open to it.

We'll see. That's just conjecture.

I don't know. I mean, I think that that in a lot of ways that.

Which she her explanation, I think was really smart and was really correct. And I, but I think just like being willing to have the conversation being willing to say woke one was crazy and and performatively laugh about it on the air was sort of like a necessary lift for Democrats in general moving forward.

And the fact that she kind of took it on herself.

You know, it's a sort of thing that a lot of politicians are not always willing to do you just sort of like insist that people forget about the past instead of actually addressing it even in the sort of vague joky way.

So I'm not saying it was like impressive, but it was interesting.

I hope the rest of you know, the answer was right. I mean, it was right on, but just watching a C in a serious interview in general is always such a meta experience because you're already trying you're already imagining how the right and how the center left or going to respond to it in real time as you're listening to her talk.

You know what I mean? Yeah, that it's hard for me to even like answer a question about the content. You know, it's like it's all like I see as terrible as it is.

Like you got to listen to her because you because I myself and sitting here saying I'm fond of this trap or like I feel like I know a O C more by the by like the quote tweets about her than I do about the for what she actually says and usually from a live stream rather than an interview like this.

Yeah.

I thought the same thing. I thought the interview was almost giddy, which just had a very funny tone to it. Maybe I just haven't watched enough Jonathan Carl lately.

He almost seemed to be just utterly pleased to have a O C there on his set.

He's also just incredibly charismatic, which is not which can get lost in the discourse about her. You know, I think that you would see that sort of getting this and Carl is I can imagine him laughing along with whoever's interviewing.

But it's a sort of reaction that like and I'm not I'm not equating them, but it's a sort of reaction that like Obama would get right like you get him in the room.

And suddenly it's just like you're just like knee slapping and having a great time because he's just like so charismatic.

He's a good politician. She's a good politician.

But also like there's a humanity to it. And maybe that's part of being a good politician. Maybe it's all put on, but you feel like you're actually engaging with somebody in the room and not just with a character.

It's funny. When I watched this interview, I thought this about a O C she's very good on a live stream.

I'm sorry this week talking about freezing her eggs. She's very good at a conventional political speech.

Yeah. For two years ago at the DNC in Chicago, she was fantastic. One of the best speakers I thought in that entire week for the Democrats.

She just has not done a lot of conventional news interviews by choice.

Nor all that many podcasts. Yeah. She also since she beat Joe Crowley in the Democratic primary now that feels like a million years ago, she just has not campaigned very much.

So we are now going to see her if she is indeed running for president or even for Senate in New York in very different places.

She's just imagine her on a stage with a bunch of other Democrats that will be happy to bring up a thing she said six years ago.

In their attempts to try to be her in a primary. I mean, that's just again, she's been part of the war. She's been out there campaigning for a duel else I had another candidates, but she has not been in that particular.

That's really canning. I think that's probably I mean entirely deliberate because you got to know as soon as you get selected that you could never achieve not just the presidency, but like the Senate, if people see you as part of the establishment.

You know, if people see you as as a familiar face even, you know, and so you got to kind of play scarce a little bit and figure out their exact lane to maintain some of that that outside arena.

And, and you know, like you said, I mean, I think it's I think that opening herself up to it now is is is is intriguing. And I think you were, you know, you're going to get to know her a lot better, which is as far as we can tell.

Probably a good thing.

I'm very interested to see how much follows from this. Does she start doing pods like every other potential 28 candidate who's out there getting reps.

Does she put herself in that position or is she kind of in a tier like Kamala Harris, where she feels like people know what they need to know about me.

I don't I certainly don't need visibility. I don't need name ID like another candidate would.

So if we weren't talking about the split in the Democratic Party, I'm just talking about you and me. If the world wasn't so obsessed with the dual, say,

uh, we the entire news cycle would be about her freezing her eggs. And that's not because of what the newsworthiness of it is because the entire right wing media machine is like cranking out posts about it.

Right. I mean, like people that I like and respect are like, is she, is she, I mean, ideologically separate from you. But are like, is she, what was it?

Was it the bull or who had the piece of that with that like, was she doing it to like hide campaign money?

Or she knows she was refraining from getting married so that she could hide money or something through her through her fiance.

It's like people are obsessed with her on the right.

And and she doesn't need to be doing more media to get the kind of exposure that most politicians would like dive for, you know.

And frankly, because of where she comes from politically right now, it's like negative pieces aren't bad for her.

You know, like they don't reach the middle people in the middle and they probably make the people on the left like applaud that she's getting dragged.

And you know, the people that their stories actually reaching would never be getable anyway.

Yeah, they convinced people she's not the establishment to go back to what you said a few minutes ago.

Yeah, I do think to something we've seen, we saw this with Elsaid Michigan and we'll see it even more in 28 is to what extent will the democratic primary run through people like Jonathan Carl.

Chris Wilker to not just a single him out, but does it matter if you're really good on a live stream.

Maybe that's all you need. Maybe that gets you 75% of the way there.

I think the necessity. Oh, go ahead.

So being able to, you know, banter and, you know, joust in an interview like this just doesn't matter that much.

I'm not sure if you start with that kind of name ID that kind of following online and that kind of movement within the democratic party.

So I think that the answer is you have to be good at both.

And and experience in both. And I think part of the whole Hassan Piker thing that we're going to talk about is just like a generation of politicians and media members who aren't familiar with what streaming is.

You know, like don't just don't would not be good. Remember last cycle it was like the idea of a politician being able to like just sit across from Joe Rogan for two hours was mind boggling like where two hours with them.

You know, like I'll give him 15 minutes or so, you know what I was just seeing.

Yeah, exactly.

So I think being able to do both is really important and being able to change gears to do both, which you saw you see do, right.

By the way, AOC is that you know the acronym, whatever the initials that we're also used to I still can't wrap my head around AES for I'll say it right like it's like every time I see AES it takes me a minute to remember who we're talking about.

I completely agree.

But yeah, I mean, I think that I think that the just to put it very broadly, I think that she needs to continue.

You do mainstream, Jonathan Carl Christian, welcome interviews when they are about something, you know, when it's like when you are the person they want to talk to when you can be the whatever I mean it's mostly bad examples right if you can be the Lindsey Graham on on international intervention that they meet the press calls every time something like that happens.

That's when you go do those shows you avoid doing the strictly like like I am running for president.

I'm probably running for president type spots in national media until the last minute.

But you know, save that for the streams, you know, save that that sort of personality, but but but yeah, you go on the you start doing the big interviews when you can be the voice for your point of view for particular issue.

But it's as she may just be so big that that's just impossible at this point. I mean everybody's going to ask.

Yeah, we would ask if she were on the show she's not she's going to have to be super deliberate about it.

And also signal I mean, you talked about majority report type stuff. Yeah, she's going to be signaling a lot to her fans into potential voters about herself by what she chooses to do.

You know, which shows she chooses to go on it's all. I'm sure it's like three quarters of a strategy now is just saying no, you know, and deciding when to say yes.

Talk about Francesca, hung 37 years old. She's a chef. She's a democratic socialist. She's a member of the Wisconsin State Assembly representing parts of Madison.

She's leading every poll for governor by double digits.

Primary is tonight Tuesday night. She is not endorsed by Bernie Sanders and AOC.

She holds positions that are from the so called woke one. She wanted to talk about defunding the police in the past.

Now she said she doesn't want to defund or abolish the police. Since she's been running.

We've seen a lot of old comments or posts about holidays.

This is from Julie Bosman at the times Valentine's Day.

Hong wrote in 2022 brings out quote the worst of humanity on a day quote capitalism tells you how to show love.

Halloween, Hong said in 2025 is quote not my thing.

I do not enjoy fireworks. Hong wrote several days before the 4th of July in 2019.

Wasn't this a Brian Curtis bit like what's the deal with fireworks fireworks are overrated. Yeah, okay.

And weirdly and in a related note Andrew Kaczynski K file over at CNN has a piece today where he found a video where Abdul L. Syed is also bagging on fireworks.

I'm not getting. I'm much more interested in who's the profile. Who's actually going to put their name on a pro fireworks column.

Well, that's what I love. I mean, this honestly sounds like a really bad podcast bit. Yeah. Okay, guys. I have a take here. I kind of don't like fireworks.

I mean, did the goleks roll that out a couple of weeks ago for the 4th of July? It just doesn't sound like.

Oh, yeah. No, I remember the Brian Curtis take was who were we applauding for exactly? We were applauding. Yeah, everybody.

Yeah, everybody. I understand everybody. Yeah, America. I've indulged in what is kind of a bad podcast bit, but this does not feel terribly controversial.

No, it's more like it's more like you a little bit I roll because it's like yes, it's like the overworked Twitter jokes, right?

Like these are these are opinions that everybody's had at a given moment and probably should resist tweeting out, but whatever. It's you're being yourself.

The Valentine's Day thing capitalism. I guess I co-signed the worst Halloween. I Halloween. I like. I've kind of I always watch those old episodes of home improvement when we were kids.

Where Tim Allen would be wearing like really elaborate Halloween costumes. I don't you can never live up to that. That's the thing. I don't find the show funny, but I want to be that dad someday.

Yeah, being a dad, being a dad changes Halloween immensely, right? It does. I don't want to be one of those people that's at like other big parties with adults wearing costumes, but I want to be like the dad who's kind of way too.

100% yes, but prior to that, I don't care about Halloween. Remember, I mean, God, in our twenties, Halloween was just like.

Well, it's what your uncle called, called amateur hour, right? You just you go to your like my local bar is now filled with people in taco costumes. I don't understand what's happening. That's true.

The one opinion that drew Francesca Hugg a lot of attention were it was her take on Thanksgiving.

Thanksgiving, a holiday known as a time when all of America gathered to watch the Dallas Cowboys lose on national television.

Here is Hongs take the lines off the hook there. Go ahead. Here's Hongs take to Caitlin Collins on CNN.

They brought up as well was a post from you in 2021 where you said Americans should cancel Thanksgiving should have done this in 1621.

The post has been deleted. Republicans have been highlighting it. Do you still believe that Thanksgiving should be canceled?

I'm a chef and one of the first meals that I made that was for the community when I was 16 was a Thanksgiving meal.

I always think my hospitality background and owning a restaurant for seven eight years that bringing folks around the table to share conversation and build community is always a good thing.

But Thanksgiving is also a time that's incredibly painful for many people in our communities. And so I think there I wanted to make sure that people understood that there are multiple views, but views can evolve.

And the position that I'm running for right now and I think my background as a chef will actually help me become a better governor that's able to bring more people to the table again that full answer has a lot more context and a lot more nuance than she wants to cancel Thanksgiving.

I did laugh at the should have canceled it in 1621. I don't know why that's funny.

It's just hilarious. This just makes me laugh. I actually think the rest of the rest of the holiday tweets defend. I mean, make me feel maybe feel better about the Thanksgiving tweet, which is she's just sort of a curmudgeon.

And that's and that and actually it's like maybe that's the sort of personality that should be running your state. You know, it's opposed to just someone who's just a bully just over the topic, excited about every freaking holiday, which is the people we normally elect.

Yeah, I mean, whatever. I should have mentioned this weird segment. I was see but one of the one of the interesting things about I think of the real advantage she has in being a national figure for so long when that's nominally a negative is that all of her old takes all of her cold takes bad takes whatever.

Just sort of get put aside because you're like, well, she's been in my life for a decade. So we must have worked through that right like she doesn't gotten canceled or fired or removed from office yet. So everything old is just sort of thrown out.

But when someone's new, then you have this gold mine of old tweets of old posts or whatever. You can just ask them about each one. It doesn't matter if immediately after that. There's a response where you said, haha, I'm just joking. You're still going to get questioned about it on TV.

So to some extent, I think that younger voters just roll the rise at these lines of questioning in 10 years ago, you tweeted like nobody cares, right? Like nobody takes that stuff seriously. Is it part of your current platform or not?

But to the extent that like you're going to be asked about it, I mean part of that sort of inevitable. And I think part of that is going to be pointed as people saying, look at legacy media dying right in front of our eyes.

It's as much about posting it as it is a battle for the Democratic Party. Yeah. I mean, I just, yeah, I think so. And I think we're still we meeting the media, the big media is still just figuring out how to talk about this stuff.

It really is related note from Will Stake and in political playbook today is that Francesca Hong, if she wins on Tuesday night is looking to shake up her com's team and rapid response team, which may be related to some of the stuff.

I also want to second this week from our old friend, Jay Kang, he wrote this, the thing that happened in sports where people started thinking like general managers is happening on here with regard to politics where everyone is trying to be like a comms manager.

Yes.

If you're really trying to give advice or trying to control the narrative, please stop and just post, I absolutely agree. I cannot tell you how many people I saw be like, here's what Francesca Hong should have said.

Dude, I didn't see that. How is that our job?

I didn't see that tweet, but I have been I have like notes in the margins right here about the exact same thing. It's like somehow the horse race, a method of looking of, you know, looking at elections, which we, which we hate, has morphed into the campaign manager method.

We're all just like trying to correct and trying to decide who should be run, which candidates are better in the general election from the primary is like, why?

Like, how, why does this conversation matter at all? It has absolutely no bearing on the reality, which is who wins?

It's not whether or we are we just trying to make predictions so that we can say we were right if the person loses, like it's all it's just all pretty incredible.

Yeah, knowing being a comms manager, it comes director, it's just it doesn't matter. Like these, those tweets don't matter at all. They don't sway anybody. They just, the same people are having the same conversations with each other, you know, and it's like circular, well, not firing squad, but you know what I mean.

Yeah, it's just and it just fundamentally is journalists. It's not our job to help politicians ace the test.

No, the pod save guys job and it actually was their job once upon a time, but it's not my job. I want to know what they actually think.

If AOC's views have evolved since 2020, I want to know how and why in the most honest way possible, but she's thinking differently now, like that's interesting to me genuinely interesting to me.

Yeah, not give me the perfect answer. So we'll stop asking you about it. Like, exactly. Yeah, just stupid. That just doesn't it doesn't help us learn about these people at all.

It just should be the idea right we are trying to learn about these people and and readers who aren't engaged in that sort of discourse are like are

grading the candidates based on how whether or not they do the thing that their favorite podcaster or tweeter said, right? You're just like, well, Francesca hangs a bad candidate because she didn't say do with the Midas touch guys said she should do it.

You know, it's just like it doesn't like it that has no bearing on reality.

What else I got for you at the battle for the Democratic Party? Michael Larosa, disaffected former Biden world guy.

It was Jill Biden's spokesman, picking of comms people came out and said he won't support a tool else I get.

Now, he's also mad at pod save America for removing. And I think in fact they just changed a clip of Chris Hayes talking about Hassan Piker.

Oh, yeah, that's the thing that happened. This guy had to exist, right? Like Fox News needed this person who's like, I'm a Democrat.

And I cannot in good conscience endorse. Ab duel else I had. Please do all of our shows.

It's what it's always going to say if the devil didn't exist, we have to create him, but it's God, right? That's the Voltaire line. There's a Dostovsky line. That's kind of similar.

That maybe about the devil. But you know what I mean? He would he would exist whether or not it was this guy. This guy is.

I mean, I don't know if is this a situation is this a wrestling thing where it's like if I'm if I'm mad at him, I'm getting worked because he's just doing he's doing stick you are getting worked.

Absolutely. Yeah, maybe it's real. Maybe it's real for all I know, but he just this person had to there had to be no, I think it is real.

And I think you would have to exist. Yeah, absolutely true. And by the way, former spokesman for Jill Biden is just like the funniest truth is.

Like if you had to guess whether or not you would agree politically with the former spokesman for Jill Biden, you would say absolutely not like there's no there is no world in which that person is not a Republican. Basically, you know, and you're just like, yes, okay, it turns out they are not not a long saying you know the former spokesman for Jill Biden is making a lot of sense.

Exactly. It was the finger on the pulse of the electric.

Joe Scarborough was mad at his son, Piker. You brought this to my attention here is the host of morning Joe.

You had Donald Trump obviously and rightfully catching a lot of grief when Nick Fuentes came to the White House and had dinner with him.

I would guess if you had a Republican campaigning with Nick Fuentes across America, yeah, there would be questions asked the same thing with with with Piker here.

I don't want you to have morning Joe. So when I was watching this clip, I was just absolutely amazed at the range of guests that were on the screen.

We're Joe and Mika sitting together with Jonathan Lamir. We had Pablo Torre.

Probably has been doing some MSNBC reps. MS now sir, don't you dare.

Scott, what are we doing that?

This is news and opinion about our world. Pablo made something interesting in this segment where he said, you're talking like Nick Fuentes is the comp.

I think Charlie Kirk is actually the better comp to son Piker. Yeah, which I thought was really, really interesting. Also when I hear the son Piker stuff, I'm like, I totally understand.

If you when you when you have circuits come out, it's totally fair game to say, hey, if this person is your circuit, do you believe what they said in the past even if everyone has distance themselves from that particular remark about 9-11.

But mic Rogers has been endorsed and very insupported by Donald Trump.

Yeah. Donald Trump has a lot of things that he has said over the years.

Are we going to go up to mic Rogers and be like, hey, do you agree with Donald Trump's not just Donald Trump every other Republican who's endorsed half of them have said things that are so far beyond the pale that they make us on Piker.

Just look like whatever the most boring word I could say right now is.

That's what I mean. It's like, do you agree that Rob Reiner should rest in piss like Donald Trump thinks like.

Yes, I'm sorry. What she didn't apologize for which he didn't, you know, what she didn't attract.

Oh, what you just we felt he clearly feels that way.

First of all, most of the people who are mad, most of the moderate liberals, whatever the moderate dims that are mad at a son Piker, I've never listened to his son Piker. It's the same thing.

They're also the same people by the way that four years ago we're saying we need to have our own Joe Rogan.

By the way, no one's ever been no Republican has ever been asked to defend Joe Rogan's previous statements.

I feel like the things that he said randomly on a podcast seven years ago.

Also, and we can we might edit this out of the podcast, but like I think as on Piker, I think it's crazy to say that America deserves 9-11.

But if you've met the level of vitriol that comment gets from people like Joe Scarborough shows me people that have never wondered why.

And that to me is the most damning thing. There's two kinds of people. If you get randomly punched in the face, you know,

there's people that either punch back, which are the kind of people we traditionally celebrate and traditionally get ahead in life.

And the people that say, why did that happen? Did I do something to make him punch me? Right? And the answer is probably, no, I didn't do anything.

He's a crazy person, whatever. But if you don't ask the question, then you're not the sort of person I want in politics.

You know, like you have to like actually be thoughtful, be like, be wonder about such things.

And I'm not saying that was what Piker said. I'm saying that like the way that people respond to that quote, if they do it honestly,

there's a lot about who they are. But yeah, it's just, I mean, it's the imbalance is crazy. And the way that the way that the moderate dims are,

have our dog piling Piker. And by the way, not succeeding at running him out of endorsing anybody or saying on the stage with anybody.

It's just frankly embarrassing, you know, it's just like it.

I mean, comparing him to Donald Trump is one thing. But dude, if Donald Trump was on was live streaming for three hours a day,

would that you know how many more problematic things would be said if Tucker Carlson was live streaming for hours a day, not like performing, not like podcasts performing, you know, how many problematic, how many so much worse things would be said or vice president.

But he's with Tucker Carlson goes on his show where the things that he said are things that he says.

We did the other day where he's making fat jokes on Twitter. It's like, okay, sure, you know, it's absolutely crazy. And the only thing you can do is drag up like one irreverent comment from seven years ago that he's retracted and apologized for.

It's like, absolutely mind boggling. These are people who are just afraid of change. They're afraid the James Carvell. Is he on the rundown James Carvell is worried that he's going to get run out of town. There's no use for him anymore.

He used to be Hassan Piker, mostly based on his accent more so than his politics. But still he was just like the he was the loudmouth liberal. You know, he was the guy that you could be trusted to say the the appropriately lefty thing on any broadcast. That's why he and by correlation.

By correlation by by corollary is wife. We're constantly on TV all the time. But you know, if in the modern world, there's no use for dinosaurs like him.

Before we move on, I want to talk to you about this Washington Post scoop.

Which is not about the Democrats, but it is about Donald Trump. This is from the embattled Washington Post, David, the beleaguered Washington Post, the troubled Washington Post.

Still coming up punching scoop by Dan Lamath, John Hudson, Andrew Bahtran and Joyce, show who Lee.

The headline is contradicting public statements Trump took secret flight from Turkey amid Iranian threat.

This is a real zinger of a headline there. I love the headline, but I also love that they were able to use this phrase in the sub headline elaborate ruse.

Just a wonderful, wonderful only in journalism phrase. I'll read the top of the story here and Iranian assassination threat against President Donald Trump prompted an extraordinary operation last month, extraordinary as another favorite only in journalism word, by the way.

In which he flew secretly from Turkey on alternate military aircraft while the White House said he was aboard Air Force One, the Washington Post has learned.

The article continues in anchor a Trump boarded the old Air Force one jumbo jet in view of television cameras.

He was secretly shuttled minutes later to a smaller plane. An Air Force C32A via an airport catering truck.

Typically used to load meals and other supplies, brief flight.

This truck was that was the catering card. You do see that right when you're at the airport. They have the big ones.

You're like 10 minutes away from boarding and you're sitting at the gate and you're starting to get a little antsy and then you see the truck come up on the lift to the door and you're like, is it like actually big enough for over six foot tall rotund fellow to climb inside.

And his staff according to this piece, like people got other people got into the catering the times I wish I'd taken a picture of it because it's gone now, but on the front page had something like Trump hit in catering card to change planes, which is just wonderfully funny image.

Especially if you think of like typical airplane food that Trump was in there where they have the foil tops over the hot meals so that they stay hot until the flight attendant rips it off and you do you've chosen the pasta or the chicken.

This is just an unbelievable story.

And what's unbelievable to is remember the first version of the story, which was reported in the New York Times, which was that the new Air Force one that came from cutter lacked some of the defense systems of the old Air Force one.

So therefore Donald Trump was taking the old Air Force one out of turkey due to security concerns. Well, it turns out he wasn't even on the old Air Force one. He was on a completely different plane.

And I'd also like to know why or just the thought process behind the Donald Trump's DOJ issuing subpoenas to New York Times journalist after that first story came out.

Because they were saying, wait a second, we want to know how that where the leak was in the government that got you the scoop usually you don't go to court when something is being concealed.

In this case that Donald Trump was not even on Air Force one original recipe. He was on a completely different plane.

It's just unbelievable.

You think this is probably why he was so pissy when the time story came out because you knew the second part was coming. And I think just like intrinsically it's embarrassing to hide in a food truck.

And be forced to switch to another plane because you're, you know, when you're a man like Trump.

It feels like if you're if that is the case and that feels definitely like something Donald Trump would feel, why would you just start issuing subpoenas at that point?

I don't know, it's free and crazy.

Does that help?

I mean, let's say Trump and his everyone related to him don't have a very good grasp of the legal system.

So it's not maybe not too shocking.

But yeah, it is very bizarre and it's really bizarre how this store, I mean, just since this is a journal media podcast to the journalist who didn't make it onto Air Force 3 or whatever we're calling it,

have a right to be upset that they were sitting ducks flying in Air Force 1 thinking that Trump was there when he wasn't there for a national security threat.

Absolutely.

I mean, beyond the idea of we should just know where our president is.

That's that's part of that's part of transparency.

Right.

We should know where you are.

We should know things about you, which sometimes the all presidents, but especially this one don't want to tell us.

Yeah, like I wait, I was on the plane that you didn't feel was secure enough to fly on from Turkey.

Yeah, but I still got to ride on it.

Interesting.

It is.

Good job.

Well, I guess it also flies in the face of all the lies that he can the Trump can a to tell about Iran, right?

Like if that was if there's actually that credible threat that he could not fly in literally Air Force 1 or Air Force 2.

That makes him look kind of weak.

But yeah, yeah, it's it's what a what a bizarre bizarre story.

Congrats on the scoop to Lamath and associates over at the Washington Post, which is still kicking some ass, particularly on military affairs and national security.

All right, David coming up at 30 seconds thoughts on the journalistic career of one Stephen A Smith.

But first, let's do the overworked Twitter joke of the week where we celebrated gag that was so obvious that all of media Twitter made it at exactly the same time.

Senior nominees at the press box pod where they're always always greatfully received today's nominee comes from Mike Shaw.

You saw the story about Jeanine Pirro withdrawing the charges against the Olympic can newest, which is another phrase that makes me smile every time it crosses my lips.

About the damage done to the reflecting pool.

Yeah, there's an overworked Twitter joke to write.

Are you saying the DOJ would drew the pool vandalism indictment?

Upon reflection.

Trump has asked him to refile by the way, I think that just came out before we started recording.

Yeah, that was that whole wonderful again.

I was speaking of great stories, the the White House confrontation between Pirro and Trump and Doug Bergham.

You also smile at the words Olympic canoes, congrats you made the overworked Twitter joke of the week.

This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods who has your back to school eats sorted.

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All right, just some quick ones before we get out of here.

Stephen A Smith and journalism.

Have you been following this story?

No, what is this?

So Mike Wilbon went on the awful announcing podcast and said that Stephen A Smith is no longer a journalist.

The he's a show.

Yeah.

And of course, this brought a response from Stephen A Smith himself from everybody.

You know, it's one of those things where people are yes, yes, finally, somebody said it will bond, of course, is saying it in the context of any of us who host shows are no longer journals.

Jamel Hill's old phrase for this was former journalist.

Yeah.

Because she was trying to make a distinction between somebody hosting a show and somebody's actually working a locker room.

The problem with calling it out and has Wilbon must have known and calculated is that you know you're going to get the response.

Like you're not you're not you're never saying anything like that into a vacuum.

You know Stephen A Smith is going to respond.

Maybe that was multiple podcasts multiple videos made about this.

I don't seek to be a contrarian about this, but this all reminds me this discussion about who is a journalist who's not a journalist of the rise of bloggers 25 years ago.

When people in print media were like see, I'm a reporter.

I'm a journalist.

You are taking my work and just adding a comment to it and posting it online.

You sir or madam or not a journalist.

Yeah.

I mean, they're even there are even more traditional disputes back then like at my paper, we wouldn't be able to publish that blog post with it with only two sources or one source or whatever.

And yet they are so they're not real journalists.

There you go.

And I just remember my boss at the time, Jake Wisebrook at slate was like, you know anybody who wants to be a journalist is basically a journalist.

This is not like a medical doctor.

We have to go to school for somebody here's in past various exams.

Right.

This just I just and I understand the distinction that's being made here.

But Stephen A is commenting on the news on television in his own in an inevitable way.

There's the word I'm groping for.

He's a journalist.

I'm sorry.

You may not like it.

You may not be your cup of tea.

He may be fundamentally different from Don Van Natta.

I don't.

He's a TV journalist.

Is broadcast journalist is Bobby.

Well, he used to say I don't really I don't see this as like a particularly interesting distinction.

Nor do I think that he gets gets thrown out of the club.

I don't get it.

I think there's two things.

One is that like you said will bond that probably doesn't consider himself a journalist as at least when he's playing presenter or whatever when he's when he's talking head.

I like you use that British word.

Yeah.

Yes.

Thank you.

And and I think that it's more of a introspective comment.

You know, whatever.

But then separately there is a case to be made that Stephen A Smith is so far like such a polar example that know even by a loose definition.

He's no longer a journalist.

He doesn't report news.

He just he's just there to be an entertainer in the guise of a journalist like a like a loony Fox News reporter or something.

You know talking at or something.

Sure.

But or like maybe John Stewart as host of the Daily Show is a better example is John Stewart is the host of the Daily Show a journalist or they can be

You know, like, but the point is I think to be one but yes, I would if he were a lot I would say he is one sure.

And so if you so if you seek to be one then you are one that's fine.

I'm like I'm again I agree with you.

I don't have any problem with that with that.

Do a definition or whatever either people want to be mad at Stephen A.

So this is a handy way to see.

Yeah, see he's not a journalist anymore.

Maybe he once was back in Philly or in New York, but he's not anymore.

Yeah.

I don't think journalists is a term that we should subject to very high criteria.

I think the whole point is that anybody can be a journalist.

If they want to be now there's a difference between journalism and propaganda and probably there's a difference between journalism and comedy and all those kind of things and even journalism and just television performance.

But I don't think there should be a very high bar to be in journalism.

That's not the idea.

No.

How many journalism classes did you take in college?

Zero.

How many journalism classes I take in college?

Zero.

Like that it's just fine, right?

Like it doesn't it doesn't matter.

And it's and if you want to be mad at Stephen A.

Just be mad on other grounds.

No, and there's even philosophical issues with it too, right?

Where it's just like did did Jackie McMullen or did any of the original cast of the sports reporters to mean themselves to go on the show and sort of be a slightly meta about their careers?

Like no, the opposite.

It's made it or like it's made it a richer field for like those sorts of that sort of exposure, right?

So I mean, it's just it's anyway, it's silly.

Greg Olson might be getting his moment in the sun.

Again.

So the thinking here is definitely going to get his moment in the sun, right?

Yeah, I think there's going to be a spot right because between CBS and Amazon.

There probably will be an opening there.

So he will get to be a number one announcer again, which he was once upon a time Fox.

Even called a Super Bowl.

The whole Olson thing is funny to me because he is really good.

He certainly proved he's good enough to be a number one announcer.

On the other hand, I feel like people have been his fans in the media have been trying to get him a job.

And been trying hard to get him a job that anyone in network television has been trying.

Yeah, like I go back to Amazon when they first started Thursday at football.

They went through four guys and never called about.

Greg Olson.

Yeah, they want a trojkman.

They want to Sean McVey who came fairly close to taking the job.

They want to John Lynch who was working for the 49ers.

And they wanted Kirk Herbstreet.

Yeah, they could have called about Greg Olson.

They didn't call right.

They had four choices and you didn't get to Greg Olson.

There was a whole thing about him and NBC.

Oh, you know, Chris Collins were though.

And what are Chris Collins were leaves like NBC's like actually Chris Collins worth is really good at broadcasting.

We will keep him.

We've got multiple cons were somewhere on the roster.

We don't need Greg Olson.

And you know, could CBS go get him? Yeah, but to me, given how conservative and.

Given the way CBS thinks it's so much more likely if a Roma was gone and that is not a.

That is not a foregone conclusion at this point, but if a Roma was gone, it's so much more likely they're just going to promote JJ watt from within and go try to hire somebody else.

From Fox.

But any question though, the fun.

Interesting.

When interesting thing to look at.

I mean, obviously Greg Olson has been calling games consistently not as the number one guy on his channel.

Number two.

Yep, I'm Fox, which is still a good game.

No, no, it is.

But we always talk about how how.

With with a lot of color commentators, their success is sort of dependent on their proximity to the league, right?

I mean, it's just like Tony Romo was good when he was like fresh out.

And then he dipped and he had to like really work to get back to the peak.

Obviously.

Is it possible that Greg Olson gets a number one job somewhere and then everybody just suddenly realizes he wasn't as good as he was once upon a time.

I don't know. He seems like a workhorse.

He seems like I'm a tight end.

So the only way I'm going to prove myself is just to work my ass off.

Yes, I'm not like famous like Tony are as famous as Tony Romo is.

By the way, the guy the folks at Fox and you know this better than me love him and have loved him since the day that since before they signed up.

Games when he was a player at Fox.

That's something that happened.

Like it is it is a wild in fatuation.

They really love him there.

They love him and they were again, they were much more interested in him than the rest of the world was way back when.

And I think I still remember when Olson and Burkhart got promoted when Buck and Eggman went to NBC or went to what ESPN.

Excuse me.

And everybody was like, man, this is going to feel smaller and then by the end of the season we're like actually.

Nope guys are really good.

I think Olson probably if there's if he's going to get a number one job winds up but.

What's up on Amazon like I and Eagle and Greg Olson makes a ton of sense it does whenever that would happen.

Also just one other note, Buck and Eggman's contract is up this year, which has been getting a lot of attention in sports media reporter world.

So they signed a five year deal with ESPN.

They're going to call the Super Bowl this year and then their contract expires.

There's a very thin line between reporting stories that are interesting for the folks at home.

They're just doing a hype train for.

Oh my God.

I'm going to have to pay the piper to get these guys back and just doing.

It's like being the comms director for the politician.

Exactly.

Being the agent for the for the for the broadcast.

I just you know who should be the agent is Charles Barkley.

They should people should just bring Charles Barkley in to negotiate for them.

Just right.

I'm going to retire.

Anyway, just a cautionary note there.

Like are we are we are we talking about a real story.

It is interesting to think that they can see really be calling the Super Bowl that a long term contract in place.

But it's more a matter of like.

It feels like even though the money is going to be the most money anybody in that job has ever made.

It's totally secondary.

It is just all parties want to continue.

I don't know about that.

Tom Brady makes a lot of money.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Any team, I should say, but like.

But if hey, but if you're Troy Ackman and again, maybe now I'm doing what I'm telling people.

Yes, you are.

Go ahead.

I'm going to be straight man's agent.

If I'm straight man's agent, I'm like, well, he's making 30 plus million dollars a year.

Troy makes well like 18 I think.

Like we're going to close the gap, right?

Yeah.

Because choice.

Probably the best announcer one of the best announcers out there.

And Joe Bucks agents like, how could he sit next to Troy Ackman making 35 million dollars a year unless he's also making 35 million.

And Joe's in Joe's the face of the franchise.

I mean, come on now.

I also had this for you know Phil Steele who is one of the probably the biggest of the college football guide producers.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

This is the old analog college football preview that appears at your local croaker or Safeway.

We still have Safeway.

Yes.

Phil Steele tweeted this out yesterday warning.

There are four different magazines on Amazon right now that are titled Phil Steele College football that have nothing to do with my magazine.

They're 587045 and 93 pages and have nothing to do with me.

They are scams.

My magazine is 376 pages with two full pages on all 138 teams.

I did not expect Phil Steele to be on the front lines of the war against AI Slop.

No.

Like there's really a really makes sense at AI Slop Phil Steele College football 26.

Maybe it's my algorithm.

How many times have you seen those tweets about like how to create passive income and it turns out that it's all about just writing AI Slop books and putting on Amazon, you know.

Have you been reading these things?

It's just stunning.

Well short this month.

It's stunning that you could just like say, oh, here's an idea that nobody's thought of do something that's like morally reprehensible and potentially illegal.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, it's not Amazon.

Yeah, no, that's funny, but it makes total sense.

Like, dude, if I were, if that were my job, I would be all over that Phil Steele stuff.

All right.

It's time for a feature that is never run through the AI content generator.

It's time for David Schumacher guesses the strained pun headline.

Yeah.

Our last headline about the new Senate nominee in Maine was after an Odyssey of a primary Democrats get to Troy.

Today's headline comes to us from Alert Listener, The Laundry.

It's from the Guardian, David.

It's a trend piece about actors who are playing the cello in movies.

We have enough examples, the latest of which is Pedro Pascal playing that particular instrument in Tony Gilroy's new movie Behemoth.

Uh-huh.

Which comes out in December.

I just saw a trailer for that.

I think that's enough to get you home.

What was the Guardian strain pun headline?

I mean, I immediately go to like take a bow, but that's not it.

But that's a visual pun, not a spoken pun.

That's very funny, but not it.

Uh- but cello strings.

I mean, listen, I played the cello.

My dad's a cellist.

Did?

I can go into and make elementary school before you knew me.

School orchestra only.

I wasn't like a great cellist.

Um, and uh-

It's not like I was a great cellist or anything.

I wasn't taking like private lessons.

Um, actors playing cellists.

Uh, uh, is it a cello pun?

Is it a-

Yeah, what if you think of great Al Pacino movies or memorable Al Pacino movies?

Say cello to my little friend?

Say cello to my little friend.

I don't know that that makes any sense, but no, it's funny though.

It made me smile.

He's David Shoemaker.

I'm Brian Curtis.

producer, Patrick from Isaiah Blakely and John Jones.

Thank you, gentlemen.

Some plugs, David.

I was out uh, buying books in Boston last week, so Joel hosted the podcast with one Jason Concepts-Yone.

Yeah, Hell yeah.

It's a very conspiracy-tinged episode of the press box.

Please listen to that.

David and I reacted to the Abdul El Sayed victory in Michigan last week.

Check that out and then the aforementioned Hwasho of the New Yorker.

Our old Grant Lynn teammate and I did a whole podcast about magazines that I hope you will check out.

Magazines, what were they?

What do we lose when we lose magazines?

That's up right now for your enjoyment.

Follow us on Instagram at press box ringer.

If you were following us, I know you're following us, David, but if this listener I'm addressing right now,

if you were following us, you would know, for instance, that Lawrence Wright has a new book coming out, not to, because I posted it on our Instagram.

Check that out.

If you want to write us press box ringer at gmail.com, David, I will see you next Tuesday with more Lukewarm takes.

About to meet.

See you on David.

See you on David.