'Marvel's Wolverine' and 'Star Wars Zero Company' Hands-On Previews | Button Mash

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Hello and welcome into the Ringerverse, your Nexus feed for all things fandom.

I am Ben Lemberg, senior editor for the Ringer and button mashers supreme.

Join not as always, but as often by Ringer deputy art lead Matt Adamantium James.

Well, we're on our circle rage.

Yeah, it's like I'm talking to Liam McIntyre right now, not actually,

but you will be later on this episode because it's a preview pod or a previews pod.

Multiple previews.

We split up to cover more ground we divided and conquered.

And we bring you what we played and what we learned about two upcoming games, Marvel's Wolverine,

which will be in your hands if you have a PS5, whether or not you have Adamantium claws in those hands

on September 15th.

And Star Wars Zero Company, which is coming even sooner, August 27th for PC, PS5 and Xbox Series.

They're making a Marvel Star Wars crossover comic.

So why not a Marvel Star Wars crossover episode of button mash?

We don't do a ton of previewing on button mash because usually we have our hands full with

reviewing. I mean, who can keep up? Who can catch up long enough to look ahead?

Maybe you can. Matt somehow.

Okay, actually, there are windows.

Yeah, not often.

Usually we're just trying to keep our heads above water here.

We're just trying not to drown in the day loose of big video games.

But it's kind of the the calm before the storm a little bit.

I mean, relative calm.

It's never exactly calm in the video game world.

But comparatively speaking, because we are about to enter the gauntlet of late August to GTA,

which will just be big name game after big name game.

And so before we get there, we'll take a breather and we will look ahead

at a couple of upcoming games that people are excited about.

That's another reason why we're doing this previews pod.

Because we are excited for these games.

B, we think that a lot of our listeners will be as well.

And plus, we're not usually in the business of providing PR for people.

So unless we're getting a really substantial experience with the game where we think that

we could actually relay something of interest to people, pass on our knowledge, then it's not worth it

to us, even if it's worth it to the company that might be asking us to preview something.

But in this case, all the boxes are checked.

And I'm excited to talk about these two games.

Because you got a lot of hands on time with Marvel's Wolverine last month.

Tell us a little bit about the preview of NTW attended.

I did. I got invited to the studios of Insomniac games,

where I got hands on with Wolverine for a few hours.

Got to talk to some interesting people from the team who you'll hear from later.

And I got a little studio tour on top of that.

Some young games. I've heard of that studio.

Where have I heard that?

Near the IKEA in Burbank.

Yeah, that's how I know them.

Yeah, we know in Somniac well from just churning out huge hits.

And these days more often than not, Marvel hits.

So this is the company that brought you Marvel Spider-Man, Marvel Spider-Man 2,

Marvel Spider-Man, Miles Morales, really branching out, going far afield here

to a different Marvel's character, Wolverine.

So in a storied history before the Marvel games entered there.

Yes. And there is a part of me that laments the loss of non-Marvel Insomniac games,

even though they've all been great.

So I can't get that upset about it.

But I do kind of want, you know, give me my ratchet and click.

I mean, I know that they will at some point.

And we know that because they got hacked.

And part of their roadmap was released, which will come up later on this episode.

We don't approve of hacking people to be clear.

But it's nice to know that at least it's not Marvel forever.

It's a lot of Marvel, though.

And you know what? Marvel's kind of cooking right now,

which is not something that we've been able to say with any confidence for some time.

But sort of exciting times.

I mean, Spider-Man, the movie is making all the money.

X-Men 97, season two wrapping up this week, Marvel token fighting souls,

which we just recently discussed in the high 80s in Metacritic.

They have patched it.

So the PC version is actually functional now, seemingly.

And people are liking the game that they're now able to play.

And Marvel wants to keep the good times rolling,

leading into Avengers Doomsday, with another blockbuster,

potentially Marvel's Wolverine.

So you're going to tell us about what you saw, what you experienced.

And you're going to bring us a couple of conversations,

because you spoke to Liam McIntyre himself.

He will be playing Wolverine in this game.

And you also talked to two long-time insomniacs, insomniac games, veterans,

Grant Hollis, art director, and Brian Weiser, senior animation director.

So talk a bit.

That's right.

We will hear from each of those parties.

We will discuss briefly what we heard.

And then I will tell you a little bit about Star Wars Zero Company.

Sound good?

Sounds great.

OK.

Well, how does Marvel's Wolverine sound?

Or at least, how did it look?

How did it feel to you?

Because you were not totally in the tank for this game, right?

I mean, your hype level was what?

Moderate, not moderate.

The charts?

Yeah, you were looking forward to this game.

To high.

Somewhere between moderate and high.

I mean, I'm a big fan of insomniac games.

I've been a big fan of Wolverine my whole life.

Loved those Spider-Man games.

And I think it's always been kind of a dream.

The idea of a really competent Wolverine game that really feels like Wolverine.

There have been a couple near hits in the Wolverine video game sphere in the past.

But obviously, the excitement around this game was pretty big for in the moment.

It was announced.

So I showed up at the studio.

And they had a lot of their office decked out to receive some of us journalists.

They had transformed it into several different, there were several different rooms

that we could, that we were saddened to play the game.

And each of them was kind of decorated to match the locales in the video game, which is

very nice.

But more importantly, we got to sit down and play the game with headphones on on some

nice TVs, totally uninterrupted.

How much blood was there at the venue?

There was a lot.

And it's not just because I'm a clumsy person.

There was no blood.

But there were snacks and there was coffee.

So it's better than blood.

It's misleading maybe.

I mean, if they really wanted to simulate the experience by having the settings from

the game, then probably you should have suffered some grievous wounds while you were playing.

But that probably would have led to a lower opinion of the game.

And that would have been counterproductive.

Perhaps.

Yeah.

But, yeah, the gameplay that I got to experience was sort of two sections of the game early on,

the beginning of the game as it's kind of teaching you how it's played.

And then after that, it jumped forward a bit to a later part of the game, not too late,

but later enough that there were some more skills unlocked and got to see different elements

of the game.

They kind of highlighted a calmer narrative section at one point and then more action with

more of the skills unlocked.

So I can talk about the start of my experience.

It's good that they did start you off somewhere near the beginning because sometimes at a preview

event, they just sort of drop you into somewhere mid game and you just have no idea what you're

doing and what is happening in the story.

Just imagine if you skip the tutorial, you haven't actually explored the skill tree, you

have not learned along with this character, you feel completely out of your depth and

sometimes that can be disorienting.

So, in dealing with that, that was not the case this time.

Just from the jump, I just want to mention at the top, one of my biggest concerns for Wolverine

the game is sort of not fair, but it is a comparison to the Spider-Man games which are so

beloved.

And I think one of the best things about those Spider-Man games is that sense of freedom

you have with Spider-Man to kind of navigate around the city and sling webs and just kind

of feel the wind in your hair, so to speak, as you navigate the city.

And I think one of my biggest concerns was knowing that Wolverine was not going to be

a big open world game because that wouldn't really make all that much sense.

I was a little bit concerned that sense of freedom from the Spider-Man games wouldn't

be here and that the game would feel lesser for that.

The structure of this Wolverine game is a bit on rails.

It is progressing you through one level and then the next.

There are some very large open zones for you to feel free to roam in and there are

some tighter sections.

That itself is very different from those Spider-Man games for sure.

But I will say that the other thing about the Spider-Man games that I love so much

is the feel of them, how it feels like you're Spider-Man.

From the controls to the sound to the visuals, it all combines and really gives you that

feel of Spider-Man.

And I think that from what I played, this Wolverine game succeeds in the same way of making

you feel like Wolverine.

We started off at the beginning and they're teaching you the controls and everything while

starting.

I'm not going to spoil the plot for anyone.

I don't want to do that.

Yes.

But what I will say about either of these games plot-wise, what I will say is that you're

kind of learning what's going on with Wolverine as he's kind of reconnecting with some familiar

characters and why they're working together.

And throughout that process, they're showing you how the combat works.

The combat is at first very simple.

And then as you progress in the game and you get new skills, it becomes much more complex.

And all of that, though, that feel is there.

That kind of savage claw ripping feel is absolutely there and feels great.

And so we got to play a bunch of the beginning, I'd say, the first hour, hour and a half.

You learn those controls.

You learn how to do this like berserker moves when he fills up a certain meter enough.

Because absolutely insane as you would hope happens and it does and it feels awesome.

And it got to do a boss fight around that section, I believe.

And yeah, it feels great.

And more importantly, the presentation and the voice acting are fantastic.

Just really, really great.

Yeah.

The Insomniac production value is a must.

That is pretty unsurprising, but nonetheless, they are towards the top of the game and

that.

And this is obviously no change there.

It feels like a AAA game.

It feels incredibly like a AAA game.

Yeah, this is the most type of AAA game.

This is in the dictionary next to AAA game.

I mean, other than, I don't know, GTA 6 or something.

This is the definitive AAA type game.

And speaking on that, one thing that I want to highlight is that we were playing on

dev kits that are essentially PS5 pros.

As I'm sure you're very familiar with the PS5 pro experience, I think, as a long time PS5

pro owner.

Yeah.

So I will just lead with the caveat of like, I did not play this on a base PS5, but I

was pretty stunned at the visuals in this game, the hair, the everything, the lighting,

just very impressive.

Did it give you PS5 pro envy?

Are you going to come to the derogatory?

Yes.

Honestly, no.

I have not regretted it for a single moment until I got to this game preview to be honest

with you.

Well, for all you know, it could look amazing on the base PS5.

I hope it does.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm sure it will.

Really good.

Yeah, just judging by past games, but, but that's good because that was kind of my concern

the lack of freedom in open world.

And that can be good.

It's obviously.

It's still, yeah, it's still a bit of a concern for me.

Mm-hmm.

Like I said, there are open zones, but I think that what this game might lack in that, in

that freedom, it is, it is trying to make up for in its story.

And I think one of the criticisms you could have of the Spider-Man game is that they are

so open-formed that they can perhaps not be as heavy on the narrative or the narrative

maybe isn't as powerful in such a game that has more of a free form.

And I think that they, in all of my talks with everybody who's been working on this, everyone

seems really attached to this story.

So I'm hoping that that's not just like a PR spin and that it really backs that up because

that seems to be like if there's something missing in that freedom that the story is

hopefully delivering.

And from the bits that I saw, I think the characters are, you know, written well and

voiced well.

And I'm hoping that all of that comes together in the end.

Yeah.

It puts a lot of emphasis not just on the story, but also on the combat and the gameplay.

And in some of the X excelled in that area too, whether it's Ratchet and Clank is fairly

linear and it's just fun to move around that world and get lots of guns and shoot them.

Or, you know, even if you're not bringing that sort of open world Spider-Man sunset overdrive

joy of traversal to a game, you really need to nail that core gameplay loop.

So you talked about the combat getting more complex as you advance.

What form does that complexity take to the extent that you were able to see?

I mean, are we talking complex combos?

Are we talking Arkham style combat?

What are we working with here?

Well, we're talking about a skill tree that unlocks new moves as you level up.

You can unlock new moves to add to, you know, the viciousness and the arsenal of your

attacks.

I got to see a decent amount of it.

There's definitely a lot more that I didn't get to experience obviously because even the

time jump ahead was only sort of later within the first act.

But I will say that, you know, it seems like at the top, it doesn't want to overwhelm

you with things.

But you will be able to kind of unlock things at a steady clip.

One other thing to mention regarding, you know, the flow and the structure and everything

is that, you know, he does have obviously these big combat sections, but there are also

sections that are kind of stealth like, you know, you do, there is a stealth element

in this game.

Yeah.

It's sort of 007 first lightish in a few ways in that, you know,

you can stealth until you're obviously seen, right?

And then once everyone is alerted, it's licensed to kill essentially, you know.

But you can play this very stealthily if you'd like.

Yeah, I was wondering about that.

Yeah, because we talked about that when the trailer came out and I was curious because

it was complete carnage and blood spatter everywhere.

But then also sneaking up on goons who just happened to be standing somewhere.

And if you're just a total powerhouse like Logan, you have to somehow make the stealth

rewarding, right?

Or else why bother sneaking up behind someone and stabbing them if you can just impale

them from the front?

In first light, you're a regular old human being.

I mean, you're an actor.

Sure.

You're a secret agent, but you're, you're just starting out in your secret agent career.

And your ammo is really limited.

And so it behooves you to sneak around sometimes.

So in what you played, did they balance it to the point where even though you can just

lay waste to everyone, you don't always want to?

Well, first of all, I don't feel like you, it doesn't feel like you can just lay waste

to everyone in this game.

I will say that I think the combat makes, you know, aside from the real low level goons

at the start, like you, you, you, you can kind of feel like anyone.

Bad guy in this game can rough you up if you're not paying attention.

If you're not, you know, approaching it the right way.

He's super powerful Logan, but there's still, you know, there's still room for him to

get really roughed up by like four guys, you know?

Like if you get surrounded, you're in trouble.

Or if you're just not paying attention, you're in trouble.

It's not until he gets into that berserker mode when he really feels unstoppable.

And I think that's really great because I think the obvious thing to do would be to make

a game revolver and just tear through everyone effortlessly.

And that's cool, but it isn't really super fun to play that, right?

And you know, there's, there's parrying in this.

You know, it, it, it feels like an action game that that borrow is like a few small elements

from a soul's like in terms of the combat.

And so that ended up being a little bit of a surprise to me.

And, and there is, you know, more skill in this than, than some might imagine walking into it.

Okay, so not complete killing machine.

There's a little strategy or a way to vary your play style.

Yeah, and the enemy types also sort of require different strategies around them too.

Without spoiling too much of that.

And then there are just like very interesting takes, you know, overings healing factor is

obviously a big part of the character.

And, you know, you can get impaled by something and it will temporarily lower your max health

until you can kind of shake that off.

Like they keep finding and introducing like new small wrinkles to the combat.

They're at what I played at well-paced intervals to allow you to kind of digest everything as it's going.

I think in a lot of games when you have a detailed, deep combat system,

you can often feel overwhelmed at the start and not really comprehend everything all at once.

And I think at least the onboarding at the beginning of this is very good at teaching you everything

and not overwhelming you.

And what was the genre of the boss fight you played?

Are we talking glowing weak point that you have to hit three times?

Are we talking tank and you just have to whittle away at the health bar?

Are we talking souls like precise timing and avoidance and memorizing and mastering?

So I played a boss fight in this that I would describe close to the tank that you describe

without revealing anything of what it was.

And I think that that particular boss battle, and this is not to say all that,

boss battles will be like this.

But that boss battle I found to be okay.

I actually wasn't blown away by that sort of boss battle.

It was a very tanky experience.

The boss obviously has telegraphs moves and you dodge and wait for an opening.

And it felt a little bit static and it set up.

And yeah, I wasn't blown away by that one boss fight.

But I could see that just being a one off because the specifics of that fight.

I imagine with a more mobile humanoid boss fight, it would not be the same experience.

So I will turn himself feel nimble to control agile or is it more brute forcing it?

I think he feels pretty nimble.

I feel like for some reason I'm a bad sense of mobility in these games because

I play a lot of video games and I'll play a game and be like, that felt great.

And people will be like, feels like he's walking through mud.

And I'm just like, how nimble do we want every character to be really?

Yeah.

You know, I will say there is definitely a mechanic while you're fighting with Wolverine.

If you hold like the triangle button, he can leap to another enemy.

Most of your attacks are on the square button at the start and you can hit triangle to kind of close

distance. And that felt really good. That was a good solve for like how can you close distance

with a character that like shouldn't on his own move at a thousand miles per hour?

Yeah.

But we also don't want the combat.

Doesn't swing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You don't want to have to spend half of your battle like running between enemies, right?

So that was a good solve of making it pretty zippy.

So he's agile, I guess, when he needs to be, but he still maintains like a feel of somewhat beefiness,

I would say.

That's important.

Speaking of beefy boys, shall we talk to one?

Shall we talk to the person who played Wolverine?

Or at least listen to you, talk to him because you sat down with Liam McIntyre from

Spartacus and the Flash and Gears of War and Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order and other things that

you have heard of or played and now Wolverine. So you have a ten or so minute chat.

We can take that in and then we will reconvene to debrief.

Sounds good.

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Liam McIntyre.

Hello.

Listen to that voice.

Was that Wolverine or is that Wolverine?

All right. So you are playing Logan, one of the most celebrated short kings in all of

super hero, Dom.

I haven't stood up next to you, but you look like you're at least six feet or so is that?

I can neither confirm nor deny that.

This is a wicked rumor.

No, I might be slightly tall in Canon Logan,

but it's a miracle what they can do with technology these days.

So when you're in the motion cab suit, are they having you look higher up to me,

I love?

I'm really glad you asked that because there was obviously they've, you know,

we've announced saber tooth.

So he's gigantic and even though Brett is gigantic

and and

except my favorite story about Brett is he came in and he was jyke, he was jacked.

And I was like, have you done MoCat before?

He's like, no, as my first time I'm like, oh, you look fantastic.

Let me start by that.

You look as big as saber tooth, but they can do that in the computer now,

which is so great.

He's like, no, but at least I look fantastic.

You know, so we started off,

we would be doing scenes together and because not only am I like meant to be looking here if it's you,

I would meant to be looking here if it's him.

So I was like, what are you doing?

And he'd be having to look at my crotch and I was like, this is just uncomfortable.

And I was like, do we think like, do we think we're getting the best performance with me,

like me guessing what he's doing down there?

But it was really so I was like, I remember talking to the animation team and Brian

Wizer and a lot of so and being like, how hard is it later on to like, you know,

we're talking the old head up and down.

He's like, we can probably do it.

I'm like, because it would be awesome if I could act at him.

And not in a giant skylight.

Yeah, so we ended up doing that and happily the miracle workers behind the scenes that were

probably like, why did they do that? Solved all those problems for us.

It was good.

Fantastic.

Logan's a pretty loud, yelling character at times.

There are actually a lot of, you know, quieter, dramatic scenes in this game.

But a certain percentage of your work must have just been a whole lot of yelling.

Did they kind of pace that out for you?

Were you at any point worried about like losing your voice for their days?

Were you just yelling for hours?

I was cocky for a while.

I was like, no, I wouldn't have a man to throw it at me.

And I was like, okay, no, it was part of workload management.

I felt like I was like a soccer guy in the team.

We were like, we will pace you out over the season.

But it was like, there were some days where like the first mocap session day was like,

all right, he's screaming about this.

Like, he's going to a federal rage.

I'm like, I don't know.

We want to do that first up.

I think that's probably a wrap only of if we do that first up.

And because, you know, I wanted to go all out.

So there's a few really dramatic scenes where he really loses it.

Yeah.

So those days, I think going home, I was like,

I don't know, like chicken, no something for dinner is there, right?

And she's like, you okay?

I'm like, that's probably his book, talk, I'll text you.

And so there was a few days that I found out what there's like a,

there's like a, some sort of like special Chinese syrup thing that all voice actors know about.

And I was like, I don't know about that.

I was like, okay, what is that?

And I've got very, I got very acquainted with low-quot syrup or something like that.

I don't, I still don't really know what it is, but it's very, it helps.

So we would try to like, it got hard towards the end of the project where they're like,

you know, all those things we've been pushing back where he's like in full-fair

like rage mode. I'm like, yeah, like we need those like immediately.

I was like, okay.

Yeah, it got spicy.

Do you think that was that was a little bit more difficult in your roles and say,

Gears of War or Jedi, Fallen Order, I think?

Yeah, yeah, look, I don't think in in any of the jobs I've done before, like, you know,

like I could scream in coming with the best of them in Gears of War.

They're coming out of the ground, you know, but like certainly in some scenes in low,

because you're like, tearing his rage was fun, you know, you're like, he's like,

morose and sad, and on his own, Lone O'Logan, and then there's like absolute kill spray

O'Logan, who's like had some massive traumatic event happen to him and he just snaps.

And so you'd sort of grade them on the sort of on a curve how

absolutely earshatteringly blood-curdling excremeat is.

But there was some that were just, you know, I was like, I'm going to have to really crank it

up to 11 on this one. And so that was fun, but I was like, you might get two of these tops.

So, you know, it's time to make them work.

So Marvel fans have obviously been watching fellow Aussie Hugh Jackman.

You might have heard of him play Wolverine on the big screen for over a quarter of a century now.

Or a legend like that.

This young man who was born into the role.

I assume you want to bring your own craft, your own spin to this character, make it your own.

Is there some impulse that you have in some way to, through your performance, to maybe

the tip of the cap to him in some ways? And if so, is it hard to kind of balance those two things?

Do you put it out of your mind?

Yeah, great question. Yeah, I mean, look, I would say it's not unfair to say that Hugh Jackman

is pretty much defined Wolverine for a generation of people. So, like, it would be foolish to just go,

whatever. But also, like, I grew up with Caldod doing it in the animated series. And obviously Steve

Bloom's done amazing work as well. And there are others as well. But, yeah, I look, I have this weird

thing where like my first big job was spoticus. And I replaced the amazing Andy Woodfield. And so,

I had the same similar kind of problem of like, I gotta stop taking on jobs where like, I'm replacing

the best there is to ever do it. I was like, cool, good stuff Liam. But yeah, like Hugh's

performance is second to none. And a wonderful guide to what Wolverine can be as many of the

performances are. They're great lessons in the character. And in how he, you know, you apply

that emotion in that place that a really complex character that Logan is. And so, I don't think

tip of the hat cap is probably the right term. I learned from spoticus. I didn't want to copy

Andy because then you'd feel like you're just doing an impression that probably doesn't feel like

you're like, skimmy the original. And like, same with Hugh, I'm like, everything he's his

phenomenal performer. And it's funny actually when I was younger, when I'd done spoticus,

the people were like, what acted do you look up to the most? And you can go back and find

interviews where I was like, Hugh Jackman, he is the guy I could be anyone I wish I was him. And

it's really, really weird to now be a Wolverine. But yeah, it was, it's more like, you know, watch

these things, listen to these things, read the comics, absorb as much of like the spirit of like,

you know, I think I think Hugh's triumph is that he, he and Bue's Logan with such like,

paythos, such rage, such, you know, the things that you attribute to Logan. And I'm not him.

I could never be him, but I can be me as well as I can be. So I try to find those things that

make Logan Logan and see how I can bring them out through what I have available to me is

the challenge of a lifetime and a huge responsibility because I love the character so much. So I'm like,

cool. I remember like after Logan, after, you know, the old man Logan Logan thing came and I was

like, show me his, I guess that he's really finished. Oh, geez, I had to follow that guy. And I

was like, oh, cool. So, but I look, like, I've got a huge team of incredibly talented people behind me

helping guide me in what I do. And I've got the joy of having someone as good as Hugh or as good as

Cal, inform, you know, like show show me so well, what a great Wolverine can be. So I hope I can

create my own Wolverine that people can really get behind. And what's cool about this is they can

they can be Wolverine in a way that maybe you haven't been able to before. And I hope that people

can really get into that, you know, and speaking of previous Wolverine games, do you have a history

with X-Men or Wolverine video games? Do you remember your first time and what game that might have

been? Yeah, it's a Camarrage. I mean, I played the hell out of X-Com Capcom. I was always like, I was

Ken and Wolverine all the time forever. And I would never try anyone else. So yeah, my history is

mostly in the fighting game version of Wolverine. Obviously, there's the ton of origins and all that.

So, and they're fantastic games, especially the origins great. But yeah, no, I'd mind, mine was like,

I played the hell out of cat like Marvel Capcom and stuff like that. So that's my most,

that's the most Wolverine I've ever been in other games. That was surprisingly my team as well

Wolverine and Ken. So, right, I was like, I'd be review, but I can't, I don't know why you just get

the the the the the the show repeal is just I hear you. I don't think a lot of people would choose

Ken over you, but here we are. I hear we are. Look at us two of us. It's a little isolated in our

little world. Is there one thing this game's about to be released. Everyone's finally going to get

their hands on it. So, is there one thing that you're you're most proud of that that that people

can take away from your your performance? Oh, wow. Um, we get to tell, I think, a very unique story

that I'm so excited for people to play. It's it's I think very unique. I've got to really test

myself as an actor from everything from like doing animal work that I did back when I was a kid and

I was like, I don't know if we'll use this and then something like fell rage as a feral animal.

You're like, no, it's like there's some there's a couple of really, really emotionally powerful scenes,

I think that asked as much as I've ever had to ask of me as an actor. I'm really proud of them. I

haven't even got to see him yet, but I hope I hope that people enjoy them because we put a lot of work

into it, but there's a really cool story in there. And as much as the the action and the excitement,

the, you know, the spectacle is phenomenal. Um, they're so good at making that in insomniac, but

I really am really proud of the story that we've made and I hope people can sort of put that

control in there and be like, well, I want to talk to someone about that. That would make me

proud of them anything. All right. Thank you so much, Liam. It's been really great talking to you

and good luck with the release. Thank you. Thank you. I want it. I want all that luck. Give it to me.

Appreciate it, man. Yeah. Thanks. Well, my first reaction to this is that voice actors

voices are unfair. This is, it's a tough act to follow. I mean, there's a, there's a difference

between podcaster vocal quality and voice actor vocal quality. It's almost like there's a reason

why he became an accomplished voice actor because he sounds like that. This just does. Anyway, back to us.

Now, sorry, everyone that we can't just get Liam McIntyre to dub the rest of this episode and play

both parts. But he certainly has an energy. He has a charisma. He's clearly enthused about

this role. What else did you take away from that conversation? Yeah. He just seems

truly grateful to be able to be a part of this and he's a real fan, it seems. And, uh, hey,

yeah, I mean, nice guy. Great job from what I've seen in the game. I think he, I think

he's, you know, from what I saw, he's doing a great job. And again, you know, all of the hype for

this game has been Wolverine and the action and everything. But in that second half of the preview,

we got to see more of the narrative section. There was a section where Wolverine is just kind of

roaming around a bar, walking up to characters and talking to them. And you really got to see the

performance of the actors doing a more kind of nuanced thing and telling a story here outside

of the vicious combat. And I was really into this section of the game. And I'm glad they kind of

went out of the way to show us like a calmer story driven section. The motion, I mean, this is

insomniac. So of course, it's going to be like this. But the facial expressions on these characters

are just unreal. And as an actor, you know, you got to be thrilled that they can capture your

performance like this, you know. And when the preview event was over and I got to tour their studio,

I got to see why they're able to, you know, have such incredible like facial animations and

character models and everything. And I got to see these two different rooms where they

scan your whole body basically with like 204 cameras. You like T-Pose and takes a million photos

on like polarized lenses to get color accurate. And then they have an entire other dome of cameras

just for your face. Yeah. Where they sit actors in there for like seven hours in a day and have

them try and make all of the all of the movements that a face can make in order to capture their

face. And that sends exhausting and tiring. Does my face hurts just thinking about that? Yeah.

But you know, again, the benefit here is like I was really blown away by

by how much of the actors performance comes through in those narrative sections. And it helps

if you have a lovely velvety voice. I wonder if if you got mocapped and you were playing as Matt,

whether you would think you were nimble or not or whether you would finally say yeah.

That would be the exception to the rule. I know there's some buzz. There's been some

fan casting about should the Mekentire play live action Logan because they're looking for one.

Right. There's a bit of a vacancy there. I guess the problem is that he is too tall.

Yeah. Potentially. Right. So that might be might be a little tough in live action. I mean,

there's always movie magic. You can do it. You can make shorter people look tall. Maybe it's a

little harder to go the other way, but potentially could be done. I guess the fact that he's 44

maybe if you're just kind of casting and hoping that someone's going to have a Jackman-esque run,

then maybe you'd want to go a little younger depending on the character and the story. But

yeah, I don't know. Maybe they'll go in a different direction and he can just own the video game

version of Wolverine for however many sequels this. Yeah, I mean, this is the same sort of happen

with Peter Parker, right? Right. So what's what's your favorite Wolverine games since you asked him?

Man. Yeah. You know what? I asked him that question. I don't even know the answer to that for me.

Good thing you can't answer it. What is my favorite? Yeah.

I've all I've for some reason I really like those X-Men Legends games back in the day.

What's that on Xbox? Yeah, it's you know, there have been a bunch, but it does feel like this is

not I'm charted territory, but it does feel like there hasn't been the definitive Wolverine game,

which I guess that's what Insamina can Sony or aiming for here, but it feels like there's a little

room to put their stamp on the character and kind of claim that corner because Spider-Man a while

since like X-Men Legends has also been a while. It has also been a while. Yes, that too. So we're ready

for another go. And we're also ready for another shortish interview. Also about 10 minutes or so.

You sat down with Grant Hollis, Art Director for Insomniac, Brian Weiser,

Senior Animation Director at Insomniac, and these guys go back. They have been within Insomniac

for decades. And the first insurer you hear will be Grant, the Art Director. So let's T that up.

I am joined by Grant Hollis and Brian Weiser. Grant, you are the Art Director. I'm a little

brain. Brian, you are the Senior Animation Director. I'm over and thanks so much for sitting with me

today. So Spider-Man, Spider-Man 2, Spider-Man Miles Morellis, all of these games that you've created

for Spider-Man feel incredible to play. I can hand the controller to someone who doesn't play video

games. And I can show them how to web sling, how to traverse the area, and it's a wow moment

every time. So in preparing to make Wolverine, what was your approach to nailing that feel of

Wolverine? I know you both are more of the visual side of things. That feel is a combination,

obviously, of sound and visuals and controller input. What from your perspective was the approach

to making sure that you could create a new Marvel game with the feel appropriate to Wolverine?

So I think for us with the feel, the big thing visually was getting the blood, the destruction,

the reaction from Logan's claws on the world and the environment. In addition to the enemies reaction

when they attack Logan. So that was really for us the big thing with the visuals for getting that

feeling. And with respect to animation, when we were approaching Wolverine, we were trying to

identify what is the thing? What is it that's important to this character in the way that

swinging is for Spider-Man? And we all very quickly arrived at combat. So we spent a lot of time

working on the weight of combat and the speed of Logan's combat versus other games we've made

before to make sure that that is where we invest most of our effort. That is the thing that we hope

people are excited about and what you spend most of your time doing in our game. And we hope it

feels like Wolverine. So if I'm not mistaken, it's been about a decade since Ensamiak has released a

mature rated game. I think Edge of NoWare in 2016. So I understand that you have decided to make

this a more visceral violin game because that's just the nature of the character. But in doing so,

were there any sort of hard rules that you as a team had for that violence going in?

Is there a line that you established that was then kind of shifted one way or another throughout

process? So when it came to the violence, it's very, Ensamiak is a very irritative company. So we

tried different amounts. So when we first started doing Warlock, we knew we wanted blood. And therefore

blood I basically meant mature. And so it was a matter of figuring out how much blood, what felt good?

If you do too little blood, it didn't feel satisfying. But if you did too much, it felt

grotesque and over the top and just like not appropriate for what we wanted to do.

So for us, there wasn't like a hard line so much as it was as we play tested and got feedback and

played with, you know, had players play the game as well as we watched the playment play time.

Did it feel good? Was there enough blood? Was there too little? Did it feel satisfying to attack

enemies or not? That was really what the line was, but is it feel good? Yeah. And on the animation team,

I would say similar grant mentioned we were trying to find the sweet spot for most of production.

You know, some of the early previs scenes that the animation team would put together to try to

put a stake in the ground, take feedback from design and art and we kind of try and visualize what

everybody is thinking. You know, we had some head severing or limb severing early on and we tried

to identify what is Wolverine would do. How would that feel over, you know, X amount of hours playing

a video game? Is it sugar to it is? Or is it in character out of character? And we, as Grant said

with the blood, similarly with combat, we have plenty of moves that just hit the cutting room floor

because they were too violent for our character. And we have others that we found that sweet spot if

we want or others that were too tame even. We had some that weren't mature enough, I guess, in that

sort of combat. So I would say there's not really one answer. There wasn't really one moment and

it's something that we've been working on throughout most of the production. Great. And in working with Marvel,

does that process change between making a T for team rated game and an M for mature rated game?

Is there is sense that maybe there's a little bit more looking over your shoulder from Marvel

in creating a game that has so much violence in it? From our perspective, no. I feel like our

relationship with Marvel is really great. And it's been the same on Spider-Man as it is on Wolverine.

Their partner, they come up with awesome ideas that then we sometimes implement in the game as well.

So, yes, I would echo that. Yeah. I would echo that. I mean, we, it seemed very similar to our

relationship on Spider-Man. We definitely get great feedback from them and they help guide our

product in some ways, but it didn't feel any different in any way. I think they were on board with

what is true to the character. It needs to be a mature title as well. Great. And so around the blood,

the blood is inescapable unless you go to the settings and turn it off, which you can do, by the way.

Did you take something from the symbiote in Spider-Man 2? This looked incredible and

moved and behaved in amazing ways. Was that some of that technology adapted for the blood in this

game or? Surprisingly, it wasn't. And your thought is exactly what we initially had thought. We

would try to repurpose the symbiote stuff, the goo, for the blood. But it ended up that didn't work.

So we ended up doing another technique of basically particles being used to simulate liquid.

So that's why it has that thickness and that viscosity. So we ended up with a different technique

in what we initially had your thought exactly. In Wolverine, blood is everywhere. Suits are

getting ripped to shreds. You made the choice that the blood coating the character will eventually

sort of dissipate after a while. Obviously, if you're Wolverine and you get your skin injured,

that's going to heal over time. That's his power. What was that decision making process like for

you guys to choose for the suits and the blood to kind of return to a normal state after a while?

And was there a lot of sort of fudging with that speed? Yeah, so with the suits.

And so obviously Logan has a healing factor. So we always knew his skin was going to heal.

And that was going to be based on a time where that corresponded with the health bar. So we're

trying to get those to line up. The suits healing came about because as we were play testing and

playing the game, we noticed very early on. Logan would end up being nearly naked at the very

beginning because maybe you didn't do a good job fighting or something. And so we really were like,

kind of want to see the suits more. So that's why the suits ended up regenerating. And then we wrote

in some more about what is happening there because we just didn't want to have naked Logan

for almost the entire game. Yeah, I'm just out of it to that. And I think it's with the player

experience in mind. Like we, we, like I said, we played around with this in a number of different

ways. And we felt that more players want to see their pristine superhero when beginning combat.

They do want to see the damage during combat. But after a setup, it's more likely that they're

going to want to see something that feels more appealing. And as Grant said, sometimes in

a cinematic that would follow combat. If he was in that nearly nude state, it would undermine

the emotional value of that moment. And remember, really, you weren't really focusing on what they're

saying. You're looking at Wolverine. Yeah.

Barely clothed. Now, given that destructible nature of these suits, you know, people won crazy

over the various suits and Spider-Man, Spider-Man 2, Miles Morales. I assume they're going to

similarly go crazy about the suits in Wolverine. Was it a lot harder to deal with making these

suits knowing that they're going to have to be destructible or as they're sort of one

sort of way of destructiveness that you could apply across all the suits or it was where the suits

more of a headache to deal with in this game. The suits, because of the amount of

ripping and destruction, was more complicated. But we ended up using a program called Houdi to help

us iterate and allow us to transfer that damage to all different suits. So it wasn't uniquely

authored for every suit because how it'd been, then it would have been a nightmare to deal with.

So you pretty much, you get this figured out on one, it gets applied to the other ones. And you

modify it, you know, because sometimes things don't quite work out or maybe there's metal pieces

or something that it didn't quite make sense. But for the vast majority, we have this Houdini sim

figured out of how it would be destroyed, and it gets applied to all the suits.

I wanted to ask you guys, this game's been in development for quite a while.

When people finally get their hands on this game, what are you most proud for them to encounter

that you touched on in your work? So I guess from the art perspective for me, I'm most proud of

the amount of destruction and the blood and all of that. The interactivity of feeling like

logon destroying stuff. So one of the things late in the game that we added was when you're fighting

the protocetinal, which you played earlier today, the ground breaks. And that was added afterwards

because we felt like when you were fighting him, he didn't feel powerful enough. This big giant robot

should be hitting the ground that should be getting destroyed and then be persistent and stay

during that battle. So that was probably one of the biggest things that I'm left excited about.

And for me, for the animation team, I have two answers to this one is some gameplay and the other

is cinematic. So in gameplay, I'm really most impressed with our ability to achieve our version

of Wolverine. We were able to sell his weight and his animalistic traits in the way that he moves

and traversal and combat. That was something we, again, like everything we iterate on forever.

We take a lot, we put a stick in the ground early and we try and figure out what is the right

sweet spot for when we ship the product. And on the other side, I'm incredibly proud of

the emotional story that we've built. As an animator, I really take a lot of pride in trying to

make people feel when they see the things that me and my team move. And I believe with this product,

there will be an emotional ride for the player, I say, follow along the story.

I'm looking forward to that. Lastly, in December of 2023,

in Somniac was hacked by a ransomware group and various production assets from Wolverine were leaked.

As creative, leading teams of creatives, how do you bounce back from such a

dispiriting event? Is it something that you encourage people to take one day at a time? Is there

someone standing up on desks giving speeches to rally people? What was your path back?

To finding the fun and the creative spark if that was even derailed for any amount of time?

It was obviously disappointing, it was hardening to have that. But for us, we were just in the middle

of creating the game and we were in production and iterating stuff. So for us, it was just

part of the, it didn't negatively affect where we were at with the design. We didn't change

anything per se. Where we were at at that moment and time got released.

We knew that things would change because that's how things work here. We're trying to find

the fun and it just takes time. The team was very, and Somni was very on board with being supportive

and making sure everyone felt okay and gave us next steps of how to protect ourselves and stuff like that.

Yeah, I would echo what Grant said. For development, well, it was a disappointment and

well, it was honestly didn't really see what was out there. I just stayed focused on our game.

I think the fact that I was able to do that credit goes to our IT team,

Somni's IT team and the support group that we have at this company and getting us through that

experience. So for me and my team, most of us were sad to see our work out in public and people

judging what is an incomplete product, but it didn't change our focus and it didn't change our

drive to deliver on the same title that we had intentions to deliver on. All right, that's all I've

got for you guys today. Thank you so much for joining us. You really appreciate it. Can't wait for

the game to come out. All right. Thank you so much. Thanks, guys. Well, I don't know about you, but

I personally would prefer the option to play as nearly naked Wolverine and I resent that they

took that decision out of my hands. Well, the weapon X skin is always there for you Ben. That's

not particularly close. Yes, I can't understand. The skins are a real fun element of this and

all the claws and everything. Yeah, it might be distracting. It might disrupt the gravitas

of the story and the scenes and the performances to be staring at Harry Wolverine S the entire time

just hanging out, but nonetheless, yeah, evidently. Yeah, I mean, some subset of the audience will

surely be disappointed by that. And if this game is not coming to PC because of the change in

PlayStation publishing policy, then people can't mod it so that you can have really naked Wolverine.

So all right, little heavy-handed and some not that's all I'm saying, but I guess we'll have to

content ourselves with closed, Logan most of the time. So they talked about the blood viscosity

and we talked about this one we reacted to the trailer too. And there was something that looked

slightly off about it. I mean, I've never been bathed in blood, fortunately, the way that

Wolverine is on the regular in this game. But I don't know, just watching it from afar, not having

my hands on it. It seems, I don't know if it was too viscous or it seemed somewhat inconsistent

with my experience of blood. How did it feel to you? Was it too sticky? Was it too thick?

Was it not sticky or thick enough? Did it feel like perfectly calibrated blood when you were playing?

I think between the scale of water and mortal combat blood, it was probably in the middle.

I guess. Okay. Maybe a little bit globby, you know? Maybe a little bit on the globby side, I guess.

Yeah. I don't know. We talked, there's been a lot of talk about the blood in this game. And I

got to be honest, while I was playing this game, I'm looking at so many other things than the blood

to be honest. Were you able to try the no blood mode? I could have, but I didn't. You had no

interest in doing that. I don't play me. I mean, it would look weird. I don't know if there's no blood

or if there's just a little less blood. I mean, it would be weird if you were impaling people.

And there were no blood visible whatsoever, but everything in moderation. Maybe there's a middle

ground. But no, I'll be turning the blood on and getting the full soaking experience. And

I mean, those, you know, in the interview, we talked about sort of the ethos of that violence,

right? And I think that once people, once this game comes out, I think the focus is going to

shift from that instant reaction of like, oh, wow, it's a Wolverine game. And it's, and it's

like mature and bloody. Yeah. I think the focus is going to shift to like, how the game plays and

what the story is. But we shall see with the trailer. All you have is the visuals. You don't know how

it feels to play. That's why we're talking to you. And that was a deep pull by you to come up with

edge of nowhere. The virtual reality emrated game. I had forgotten about that one. I was thinking

that maybe they hadn't had an emrated game since the resistance games, right? Which would have been

given before that. But, but no, you were right. Sorry, I had to do some research, Ben.

Yeah, you did your homework. So did the healing factor for the uniform specifically? And they

mentioned that there's some lower explanation for how the uniform regenerates. I don't know for

we're talking nanotechnology or what, but how did that look to you?

I think it's, I think it honestly, it is at least at first, it is a bit distracting.

Like, there's a reason why people noticed it in the trailers, right? It's because

it's a little distracting. Yeah. That it kind of heals up and patches over, right? And like,

but I don't, I don't think there's like a solve for that. I can't, I certainly can't think of one

they didn't. So yeah, I suspect that it's something that we'll kind of get used to while we're

playing the game. But yeah, I can't lie. It's it's, it's, it is a little weird. It's

to close, heal themselves. It's up for some reason where like we'll see skin heal itself and be like,

nice, that makes sense. But a shirt, yeah, that's just can inaccurate, Matt. So I don't see what

you're suggesting here. But yeah, it is interesting that they talked about the tool that they use,

which is a tool that goes back away is that is used by other Sony first party publishers and

everything. And they can do just great wizardry with that sort of stuff with procedural generation.

And I know you might be hearing that and you're thinking, wait, procedural generation, is that like

generative AI? And I guess the lines can be a bit blurry between these technologies at times. But

no, this is meaningfully different and pre-existing. So don't have any posts. But Mesh says Marvel's

Wolverine is using generative AI. That's definitely not the case as far as you're aware. But, but that is

a nifty little trick that they're able to deform and slash and tear the outfits, the costumes

without having to personalize and animate that for each one, which would be just such a pain.

Probably pretty prohibitive. Yeah. So well, that sounds pretty exciting. And it sounds like your

expectations were raised by what you saw in what you heard here. Would that be accurate to say

that you came away from this a bit more hyped than you had been going in? That's definitely fair to

say. You know, I think the thing with this game is going to be, it's inescapable that people are

going to compare this to the Spider-Man games. It's just, you know, it's the same studio. It's Marvel.

It's a different superhero. The comparisons are going to be non-stop. And honestly, there's

just not that much to compare in terms of how the game plays and the structure of the game

are completely different. And I think it's Ames. As a video game are a bit different as well.

So is it going to be better than those Spider-Man games? I don't know.

Really don't. Is it going to be worse? I can't tell you. But if it is better or worse than

than those Spider-Man games by a large margin, I would be surprised in either direction.

I appreciate the honesty in previewing where your verdict is. I don't know.

I can't tell you. But you did your best. So much hinges on this story to me.

Because at worst case scenario, what we have here is a very solid action game that uses a lot

of beloved characters, great voice acting, and it's fun to play as Wolverine. That's like the

worst case scenario I'm seeing here. And if the story really hits and later in the game, the

skill tree makes the gameplay even more dynamic and it gets even more interesting, then

there's a lot of room for it to be really great too. So we'll see which direction it ends up going in.

Yeah. And why not both? We have no shortage of open world options out there, including

Marvel themed Insomniac games. So I don't mind having a little linear curated experience in the

mix too, because that has its virtues and also its drawbacks and done well both can be great. So

so far so good. And of course we will bring you much more once we're able to see and play the whole

Shabang, which will be on September 15th for PlayStation 5 pro or otherwise. So let me tell you a

little bit about the game that I got to play. Yes, please do. Sticking within the Disney

orbit and umbrella here, but pivoting to Star Wars, which I can't say is cooking at this particular time.

Simmering? Even that might be a stretch. I mean, no offense to the ninth Jedi, but you know,

Star Wars releases are a little thin on the ground these days and haven't always been the best,

but that's why I am excited for video games to bail out Star Wars because the two biggest

releases, two of the really only high profile releases coming the rest of this year in the Star

Wars universe are video games and zero company is coming as I mentioned on August 27th for PC and

PlayStation and Xbox Series and then of course, racer is coming in October. And so we're getting

lots of different kinds of Star Wars experiences, which I always appreciate galactic racer that is.

So I did not get to go anywhere for my preview. I didn't get to go to any fancy event, but

I did get to take in an hour or so presentation about how this game came together with a little

Q&A with the developers and then got a preview build, which was a pretty meaty substantial

preview build. And when you're limited to a few hours and it's all selectively put out for you,

you don't exactly know what you're seeing or not seeing, but this was a lot. I mean, there are

other previewers who put 50 hours into the preview build, which is there were a lot to do 50 hours.

Yeah, because you could keep playing it. There was a sort of an extended sequence that you could cycle

through and play multiple times before you you ran up against the wall essentially. So we were

gated. You couldn't go beyond a certain point, but you could play and replay this really meaty

portion of the game to your heart's content. And I feel like I got a good sense of what this

thing is. And we might be in trouble. And because I think this game might be good. Just based on what

I'm seeing. So for anyone who hasn't seen anything about Zero Company, this is a turn-based

tactics game. This is essentially XCOM Meat Star Wars or Marvel's Midnight Suns, Meat Star Wars,

or for that matter, Mario Rabbids Meat Star Wars. It's very much in that lineage. And this game

is developed by a new studio, you know, a few years old called BitReactor. And it's not entirely

a new studio because it was formed from fire access. A lot of fire access veterans, the company that

has made XCOM for years. So clearly that lineage is here and that influences here. And that's the

obvious spiritual inspiration here. So if you just said it's XCOM Butt for Star Wars, you wouldn't

be way off. I guess it's ZCOM in this case. But there are some significant differences and improvements.

Now, is this a genre you love? Because this is not a genre that I have had a huge amount of

experience in. I've dabbled, but I would not say this is my wheelhouse. This is a genre that I love.

I love the XCOM games. I love the Mario Rabbids games. Yeah. You put me on a grid and give me turns.

And I'm right where I want to be. Yeah. Well, I've got good news for you then because this is that.

And I've had good experiences with that. I was a little underwhelmed by Marvel's Midnight Suns,

which a lot of people liked it was warmly received by critics at least. It did a book club.

That's great. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing with Marvel's Midnight Suns.

Boy, I mean, it's it's card-based. And you know how I feel about cards. This is not purely a game,

but but the combat is card-based. And then also, there's just a lot of downtime and between

mission time and you're wondering around the mansion and you're playing mini games and you're

getting to know people. And that's how the story is conveyed. And it was a little too much for me.

I know a lot of people liked it, but it was just sort of these static locations and not really the

best animation. And so it felt a little slow to me. I didn't love the pacing personally,

though people's mileage varied. But this, I think, might possibly hit the sweet spot. And by the way,

even if it were XCOM meat Star Wars, it's not like we're swimming in XCOM these days. It's been

a decade since XCOM 2, the last number of XCOM game. Yeah. And what, six years since any non-mobile

XCOM game. So if it were just that, spiritual successor to XCOM but Star Wars, that might be

exciting for a lot of folks. And that's kind of how it came together because BitReactor was working

on this, was trying to come up with a tactics style game. And then the late legend Vince

Ampella of respawn reached out to the creators and said, hey, what if we made the Star Wars with

that work? And they were receptive to it. And they did it. And I think based on what I saw, at least

the fusion fits well. And they recruited some people with experience with this universe. So the

the narrative director of this game is Aaron Contreras, who started out on Black Flag, the original

Assassin's Creed. But then also was the narrative lead on the Jedi games, the Star Wars Jedi games.

So there's clearly a lot of that kind of DNA from a storytelling perspective. And I really liked

those games in terms of writing and setting and storytelling. And so all of that is here with that

tactical combat gameplay. And we haven't really had that, right? I mean, I'm casting my mind back to

the many Star Wars games that I have played. And you'd think that anything under the sun, anything

under the many sons of the Star Wars universe, the twin sons, would have happened. Obviously,

we've had RTSs real-time strategy games. But XCOM like Star Wars games, not exactly, right? I mean,

RPG elements, RTSs, but this feels like a pretty new synthesis to me.

Well, that's good to hear. Yeah, I've been seeing some clips from some previews online. And

it seems like there is a bigger focus on the narrative in this from what I can tell. And it

seems like there's a bigger focus on the writing of the characters. Can you tell me more about

what exactly is happening between the times where you're on a grid? Yeah, it's pretty impressive,

actually. So the setting, this is prequel era, late Clone Wars, kind of episode three-ish.

But its own isolated slice of that conflict, which maybe intersects with it in some ways,

influences it in some ways. But it feels like its own distinct thing, even though it's in this

very familiar era. And unfortunately, with Star Wars, you're sort of stuck with a couple

eras for the most part. I mean, for all that I'd like to go back to Old Republic era, we haven't

seen much in the sequel era for maybe obvious reasons. So you're kind of getting new Republic era,

which is what Galactic Racer will be, or prequel era, or original trilogy era. But this feels

distinctive, and you are playing as the titular Zero Company, which is a Ragtag group, kind of a

classic Star Wars paramilitary outfit that is working with the Republic against this similarly

paramilitary cult that is aligned with the Separatists, called the Infinite Coil. And a lot of this

lore is new. So you will certainly see familiar characters and settings, and Anakin Skywalker will

make a cameo, et cetera. And, you know, De Bradley Baker is here playing the clones voicing the

clones. So there's a lot of that lineage and an influence from the Clone Wars series and

Endor, and you know, some other highlights of Star Wars have been cited by the devs here. But

there's a lot of story. It feels really central to this experience. Great graphics and animation,

just totally polished production values. It looks fantastic. I mean, in some the quality kind of

facial animations, voice acting seems uniformly pretty excellent, which is nice. And the writing

is sharp too, even though you have a large cast of characters here. And a big part of the game

is not just the tactics combat, though that's the heart of it, but also constructing your squad

and getting attached to these characters. And you know from XCOM, that's part of it, obviously.

There was a story and you would get attached to certain characters, but it wasn't really front

and center, right? I mean, it didn't feel necessarily like the emphasis of that experience,

depending on the XCOM game. Would you say that's fair? Yeah, I'd say that's fair.

It's kind of a tough thing to balance, because there is permadeath in XCOM games, and there is

permadeath in zero company for what I understand. There is. Some of your main characters that you're

with can be killed in battles. Well, you know, and they have apparently from what I understand

constructed the narrative in a way that you can lose one of those main characters. They're not

sticking around just because they're a main character and they wrote the game to be a certain way.

There is, they've kind of written this so that your best bud can die off and just not be there,

the rest of the game, right? Yep, which is what makes it impressive that they're able to tell this

cohesive story and that they've devoted this much effort to flashing out the script. Yeah, because

you know in a typical playthrough, probably people in a single playthrough at least, and I think

there's a lot of replayability for this reason and others that you're probably going to be seeing

a fraction of what you could be seeing. And so they have to create a ton that many players just

will miss entirely. And that is part of it. So permadeath is toggleable on and off. You can

disable permadeath if you don't want to lose anyone you're attached to, but they do recommend

that you play with it on. And I would also just because it adds some stakes. I mean, you do get

attached to these characters, particularly I think the breakout star might be this character

called cab uppercut, who is as the name suggests sort of a melee brawler type. But you're going

to get attached to these people going through missions with them and not just the missions, but then

also between the missions, you retire to the den, which is sort of your base, your hub, which is at

the ring of cafrin from Rogue One. So you're going to be seeing some familiar locations and also

some unfamiliar ones here. And in the den, you can do a lot of stuff. So you can upgrade, you can

purchase stuff, and you can talk, you can just walk around and talk and see what's new with your squad.

And so the more you talk to them and go through all the dialogue options, the more you will get

attached to them, they're also training missions you can engage in that will unlock these effects,

this sort of multipliers with particular pairings. There's a bond system basically, which makes it

more advantageous to use certain character combos. And so when that happens and you start to build

your playstyle around particular characters, then it's even more of a loss. It's pretty devastating

when you lose someone like that. So they introduce you to the permadeath early on with some canon

fodder, essentially a character that you just met and don't particularly care about. And then you

know what's at stake. But the more you play, and because it's so well written and well acted and well

animated, you really don't want to lose these characters at a certain point. And so maybe that

causes you to play conservatively, maybe it causes you to switch out characters and try new ones,

just because you don't want to risk certain mains. But then again, you don't want to miss out on

the experience of playing them because you're afraid to lose them, right? Better to have loved

and lost than never to have loved at all. So yeah, you have to navigate that. But I think it's

it's pretty impressive based on what I saw. And there's a lot. I didn't how they're able to make

the story work, even though they can't guarantee which characters will actually be on the board.

And there's just a lot of stuff there that you may miss out on depending on your playstyle.

And also there are characters, you know, there's some sort of mean scripted characters, more

designed characters. And then there are once you can recruit and sort of design yourself.

And even those pretty impressively have voice dialogue and a lot of lore. And so if they're

in the den with some of the other main characters, they still participate in conversations.

They're still integrated into the squad in a way where I was sort of expecting, oh, this is just

going to be kind of a silent generic character. And that's often the case with the player

character as well in this sort of game. That's the one thing that you, well, you can customize,

but you can't completely alter. Your character is, is Hawks. And Hawks can be one of several species.

You can customize everything about his or her or their appearance, you know, in a cosmetic sense.

You can really make Hawks your own in a sense, but Hawks is going to be Hawks. That's not

negotiable, but beyond that, you can really put your stamp on this. And you know, I'm usually not

someone who gets so invested in cosmetic tinkering in games. But if you can, and if you are that type

of person, then you can really tinker to your heart's content. And you might actually want to,

because at a certain point, zero company actually starts to seem real to you. And so you might find

yourself in a menu saying, what color do I want my blaster barrel to be so be warned. The rabbit

hole goes deep here. That's very impressive. Yeah. I'm never going to get close to a melee character

in the next game. I don't let your heart fall for what's his name, uppercut guy. Yes,

cab uppercut. Yeah. But it is sort of mass effect. Yes, I would say that might be the best comp

when it comes to this Dan and how fully fleshed out your characters are. I mean, I'm not saying that

there are, you know, romance options to the extent of mass effect, but just in the sense that these

do feel like fully fleshed out characters and that there's some care that went into this even though

they are ultimately expendable and vulnerable. That is pretty cool. And so yeah, you'll be going to,

you know, you might see a best spin or a loathol or dantween. I mean, all corners of the canon.

And you're playing with four person squads. And if you've played XCOM, I think the basic bones

of the combat will be pretty familiar to you. You know, you start out with three action points.

And then you kind of have to dispense those, however you will. And you can move and position

your character and overwatch, you know, so that you can set up in a certain place. And then if someone

comes into your line of fire, then you can take them out. It's all about positioning.

There's some destructible environments. And by the way, it was heartening for me to hear that

there's at least some destructibility in Wolverine because I'm a sucker for destructible environments.

I can't get enough of them. It's just such a cool thing about video game interactivity.

There's some of that here too. And there's a kind of like a tag team sort of system where you can

call for backup. And then another character will attack after you attack that sort of thing.

And I would say even as a non-expert in the genre, it's pretty accessible. But also there's a good

deal of depth here. And there are a lot of scenarios where you'll feel like I just got through

this with the skin of my teeth. There are four difficulty settings. So it's not too intimidating.

If you haven't played this, it definitely does do a good job of tutorializing everything. And you

can customize the difficulty. But there's a lot of skill that up or down in a game.

While you're, yeah, you don't have to admit too. I don't know if it's in mission. But like between

missions, you can adapt that. And stuck on one playthrough at one. No, it's it's

perma-death, but I don't think it's perma-difficulty. And there are several classes, of course. You've

got your assault and heavy and medic if you're a healer or gunslinger or scoundrel or scoward or

sharp shooter soldier. You can also just be a droid. You can be an astrumac. You know, you can

have kind of an all-droid unit. You can have an all-clone unit. You can, that's why I'm saying,

you know, if you have the time to play through this thing multiple times, you're probably going to

see a different story. And also you could approach your playthrough entirely differently. And

you know, it's generally fairly contained small skirmishes. You're not going to be in huge

open-world battles here or either. But it does feel dynamic. It's nice that between turns,

it's not just frozen and everyone's sort of standing there. Like people are still shooting and

blocking or ducking or whatever in a way that isn't reflected in actual outcomes, but it's

purely cosmetic. But it helps. Yeah. In live and the battlefield a little bit so that it's not

just sort of, you know, until I press something, everyone is standing still. For those time.

For those who are in the car when I, yeah. Exactly. And when I started, just because of my normal

inclination with Star Wars games and action games, I really just, I wanted to blast away without

taking turns. You know, I just, on shot first, that's what I wanted to do. Especially because

there are third-person sections, which you were alluding to, which I think really helps kind of

in a Mario Rabbids style where, yes, when you are actually in combat, you're sort of restricted

in what you can do. But then you basically have to walk to the combat. Or when you finish part of

a mission or a battle, then it will open up again and then you can walk to the next combat section.

And it's not like there's so much to do necessarily. You're not really like unlocking stuff for

opening boxes or anything, but it is nice even though the movement does feel slightly sluggish to me,

at least in the third-person sections, it just helps connect the combat sequences and kind of

makes it more immersive in a way that I appreciated. But at first, just the muscle memory kicked in,

where it's like, oh, I can run around in third person. That means I can just play however I want

and no, you can't quite do that. You are still restricted to taking turns. But another thing is,

you know, if you've played XCOM, there are all the memes about the probabilities, the hit probabilities.

And sometimes you're like at point-like range and it, you know, the memes like 65% hit probability or

something. That didn't happen to me. I didn't see much of that. You will still miss shots sometimes,

just I mean, you know, it's a good, it's a teaching moment, a lesson about probability. Sometimes 90%

probability means you're going to miss 10% of the time. So that is always frustrating when you just

get the unfavorable role of the random number generator. And it's like, I did everything right.

Right. Yeah. You just, you got to, you know, never tell me the odds except it constantly tells you

the odds. And so it's frustrating when the results go against you. But I mean, you know, that's part

of the territory. But that does make you wish like, I wish I could take control myself and just

blast away more accurately in a foolproof sense. But the story's cool, you know, the infinite coil,

they're like self-infected with this shadow plague on purpose in a what doesn't kill you makes

you stronger way. And maybe this could spread. So there are bigger stakes, but also it is sort of

self-contained and you come to care about the characters and the company. And you can just, you

know, recruit everything, customize everything, upgrade everything in the Dan between missions. There

are like different mission types. So it's not just, hey, kill everybody on the battlefield. Sometimes

there's a certain objective. You have to escape or rescue someone or or do something. And then

sometimes there's special enemies, you know, like a adjoit or something. And you have to figure

out, okay, how am I going to take down its shields or work around the shields. And there are a lot

of other little wrinkles, you know, there's like a shared resource called advantage that you can

build up as you go through a fight. And then you can trigger a more powerful move to do that.

By the way, you asked about changing difficulty levels. You can also change Hawks' appearance and

species on the fly, which is interesting. I mean, jarring. It's like, you know, I can go from being

a human to a devaroni and all of a sudden or something, which, all right, but I mean, you do you,

Hawks. So it's so tough, you know, you get attached to a certain appearance and it's telling this

cohesive story. And then suddenly, Hawks looks completely different from before. But that is your

choice. And I'm pretty impressed on the whole, I must say, and a lot of choice. It sounds a lot

of choice. A lot of replayability, really impressive production values. The soundtrack is by Gordihab

whom I have interviewed for the Ringger.com. What a great website. I don't want to limit him to

saying that his job is to sound sort of like John Williams. He does other stuff too. But he is the

best in the world at coming up with original soundtracks that have that classic old school

Star Wars flayer. So that's great. And it just, it looks fantastic. So, you know, you have to watch

your crew carefully because you can revive your characters a couple of times. It's like three times

in your out, basically, you know, that's the time is the opposite of the charm, I guess. And so

once they've been down, you can heal between missions eventually. And, you know, but those do

carry over. So you are white knuckling it at a certain point because it's like Luke in the last

Jedi, no one's ever really gone in this game. They are at times. And so that's somehow.

Helped the team has returned twice. Exactly. Yeah. But not your characters because of the permadeath. So

it's extremely Star Wars-y. I mean, Jedi, Joy, it's Mandalorians, Troopers, scoundrels,

the gangs all here really. So I'm in a year for Star Wars because Galactic Racer,

yeah, the footage that's come out recently from some previews has, has looked really impressive.

And that's another one where you don't think of that genre as being so story forward. But it

seems like they're really making an effort to integrate that there as well, which I'm all for.

And also the mission's advanced time, which is kind of cool because when you're in the den,

you can do these operations. They're called that are text only. You're just sort of, it's like a

text adventure old school. You're sort of assigning certain characters to squads and sending them

on these missions. And then you see whether it worked out and what you got. And you can miss out on

some operation opportunities if you just don't get to them at the right time, which is another

reason why maybe it makes sense to play this multiple times and see how the team make up differs.

So man, I also came into this being pretty optimistic, somewhat optimistic, even though this isn't

necessarily my niche. But I have to say that this also raised my expectations somewhat. So you

don't want to get over hyped based on not playing the full experience. But again, so far so good.

Great. Well, it's going to be more excited. And we don't have very long to wait for this one,

because this game will be out in a couple of weeks and everyone will be able to play it on August

27th. PC PlayStation Xbox Series. Obviously, we will be back to discuss it again in even greater

depth than I don't have any show and tell unlike you. But but maybe next time, perhaps we will have

someone on to talk about this. The only real caveat that I have, even though it looks great, sounds

great, great sound design, there were occasional glitchy, janky things, which I was playing a

pre-release build. So it's possible that all of that will be ironed out by the time it's out. But

there are some wonky camera angles, sometimes where the camera would shift around and you

kind of couldn't see part of the battlefield because it would be blocked or were some glitches with

collision detection, that sort of thing. And some frame rate issues, which were hard for me to assess

because I was playing this on a work laptop. A surprisingly powerful work laptop, but nonetheless,

couldn't harness my PS5 pro power for this preview build. So I know I just had to go back to

slum in it, just see how the other half lives, but before I get back to to pro. But yeah, I've seen

some other previewers note that they had some occasional stutters and hang ups too. So hard to say,

whether it will be perfectly polished by the time it comes out, but nothing really that

impeded my enjoyment of the game. I should say for Wolverine, I

the entire time I was playing it ran super smoothly and I saw one glitch where a guy kind of like

glitched through a wall, but aside from that specific one instance, yeah, I didn't, that game seems

really polished. So yep. All right, well, we came, we saw, we previewed, we're going to take a

break and a quick breath to get our bearings before really zero company sort of starts the onslaught

when it comes out in late August from there through GTA, there is hardly a week without some hugely

hyped game coming out. So there will be a lot of button mashing work through whatever sliver of your

pile of shame you can now. Don't be ashamed. It's okay not to play games sometimes too, but

yeah, I mean, based on your experience, perhaps not, but for many people at least don't be

plagued by guilt if you don't. But yeah, we're going to be busy, busy, busy button measures here

for the next few months. And but mesh will be back next week as well. And then we will cover

zero company and then we'll cover a whole lot of games coming in early September. Oh boy.

And then we will also have a Wolverine episode in mid September. So thank you, Matt. And we will

be talking a lot sometime soon. Yeah, can't wait. It's going to be a fun, fun time. And you can

contact us at ring of earth gaming at gmail.com if you have questions or comments or want to tell us

which games you are hyped to hear about in play. Thanks to Steve Vanity Fair Almond

for producing this podcast. And as always to our junior ring of pal for green lighting

and senior managing our whole venture here. But mesh will be back next week. Hold on to your butts

and your button mesh.

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