Air Faux One

Hello and welcome to the Slate Political Gab Fest.

August 13th, 2026 at the Air Fo1 edition.

I'm David Plott of CityCast in Washington, DC.

Joining me from New Haven, Connecticut by the Yale University Law School and the New York

Times Magazine is of course Dr. Emily Baszlon.

Hello Dr. Baszlon.

Dr. of what?

Dr. of laws?

No, I don't think so.

I mean, that's a serious thing.

Anyway, hi, great to be with you in my non-doctor self.

And John is on vacation.

And when John is on vacation, that means it is an amazing opportunity to call our favorite

or my favorite.

I have Fest guest host, Juliet Kayam, from somewhere.

Rhode Island.

Okay, in Rhode Island, yes.

Also, also there on the Long Island Sound, I guess.

Is Rhode Island on the Long Island Sound?

Or is it further east of the Long Island Sound?

Well, where I am now, when we're in the Narragansett Sound, but there's like this, the way

Rhode Island is designed is that through block Island, you could get to Long Island very

quickly and faster than driving.

But that's the extent to my knowledge.

That's what we're going to do, New England Geography today.

Juliet is, of course, a professor at Harvard's Kennedy School.

She is a CNN national security analyst.

She has a sub-stack, early warning, early warning.

Maybe she'll give us some early warnings today.

Yeah.

I entered the sub-stack world this week or a couple weeks ago.

Oh, it's a new sub-stack.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't know why.

It's actually kind of fun.

I'm sort of, you know, I'm owned by CNN in the Atlanta.

I say I get to, like, own my own self for a little bit.

I'm still with the other ones, but yes.

You have more affiliations.

It's almost anyone.

I know, but they're all, like, yeah.

I don't know.

They seem pretty good, but they're all good.

It's just like they don't really own me, but like, you know what I mean?

So, like, you know, you get to the age where, you know, we want to be like David Plott.

It's we like, you know, build an empire.

Huh.

I'm building an empire on sub-stack with like 2500 subscribers.

So we'll see how big it is.

That seems like a lot.

That seems like a lot.

Really?

That's good.

Okay.

Good.

So, should we be outraged by the presidential plane, switcheroo, then Trump's sneaky new

efforts to circumvent the Supreme Court's rulings against the Mont-Berthrait citizenship

and tariffs and more, then the Great Barrito War that is tearing Maga apart, else we'll

have cocktail chatter.

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The Scooby-Doo-like plane switchup that has been thrulled Washington media this week has

taken various new turns.

There's a report today in the Washington Post that the CIA thought the warning that caused

the planes switch route to happen, which came from Israeli intelligence was not much of

a, there was really not much of a threat.

This of course was kicked off, well it was kicked off a while ago by the Times reporting

on the fact that the president did not take his new cattari air force one but took another

plane but it was kicked off more recently of course by the post reporting that President

Trump did not actually take classic air force one when leaving the summit in Turkey but

actually snuck onto a different plane by the catering truck then snuck back on to classic

air force one when the flight landed in England.

So according to reporting from the post and from others this was a precautionary diversion

because of a credible possible threat from Iran to the plane.

So classic air force one flew to England with Marco Rubio and Scott Basant and the press

core, the expendables, all the expendables were on board and they were non the wiser while

the president was on this other plane.

So Emily how should we feel about this switch route and the kind of the closed mouth that

the tight liftedness about it as citizens and as journalists?

I mean first of all it's hard not to find the whole thing a little bit funny right the

idea of Trump's scrolled away in this container and hustling into a back entrance.

And I think there's I suppose a more serious question about the decoy and the ruse aspect

of this and whether it was necessary right.

I mean the president's safety is super important.

Let's just like separate them from however one feels about the occupant of the presidency

like obviously making sure that a foreign government does not assassinate or kidnap the

president like very high national security priority.

However fooling people and leaving lots of other people on classic air force one to be

a kind of decoy those are not things that should be undertaken lightly by the government

I think both because of the lie and the fact that you force the journalists to report

things that were not true which journalists don't like to do and also because you maybe

made a lot of other people vulnerable to a certain degree.

I guess one question I have for Juliet is if the threat turns out to be not that serious

how does that change how we think about the story.

No I think that is the question this morning I've been thinking about this a lot.

So how I thought about it yesterday before this new intel came out about the credibility

of the threat which I kind of always wondered like because this just seemed really odd was

someone made a calculation in the military it's called an acceptable loss as calculation

that's you for missing for it.

Which is the mission you know think about D day and Normandy so I you know general Eisen

Howard understands there's going to be incredible casualty loss it is worth it for the benefit

of getting the allies onto France.

So you're making an acceptable loss calculation if the loss is too great even if the victory

succeeds and you don't go for it.

So it's like a it's perverse but it's also we understand that in military someone assuming

that the threat was credible someone made sort of the equivalent and acceptable losses

calculation here and that's where I mean first of all the soldiers in Normandy knew what

they were getting into but also it was unnecessary people keep asking me like well what you know

the president's safety is the most important when things like that happen what you're trying

to do is sort of by time to deescalate the potential threat to the president.

So in my mind they had assuming that the threat was real they had a variety of alternatives

including you don't move either of the Air Force ones the the Qatar gifted one which was

a joke in terms of its safety or the or the legacy one you get Trump out of Ankara which

was clearly a vulnerable area and you get him to Germany one of the military bases a couple

hour flight he can go missing Trump goes missing for a lot of hours he can go missing and

then you regroup in Germany.

You just needed a couple hours this ruse it seemed performative and it seems particularly

performative now that we learned shock of all shocks that the Israeli intelligence to

suggest an imminent threat is not was not strong so someone in the chain of command never

sort of you know acted the adult.

Juliet I mean you it's very hard to debate with you about these topics because of course

you are literally a world expert on them and you know how the decisions are being made

in a way that I certainly don't.

But the CIA said the threat was not credible according to a one report in the Washington

Post so that's all we know like so we don't actually know that the CIA said that we just

know the Washington Post reported that and you know there were other people including

the secret service who felt that even a threat that might be a tenuous threat was something

not to take a risk with with a president who's been the victim of three assassination attempts

already.

You I mean doesn't sound like you're taking any issue with them doing something.

No I until today until I'm with you all right if this was a even if it wasn't a credible

threat he's in Ankara he's he's you know near you know near the center of it he is in danger.

But why is that I don't even understand what you're saying like why is the ruse so bad

I don't I have literally no problem with this ruse what is the problem with the ruse because

if it were real then you are putting civilians staff media as the member decoy has a meaning

you want the enemy to look here while you're going there.

So if the enemy is looking I'm doing hand gestures everyone if the enemy is looking at the

at the legacy Air Force one assuming that the threat is real that now is a vulnerability

it the it's the it's the airplane that was a vulnerability that's what the intelligence

was telling them that it was a land you know a land to air or surface to air missile.

So it's the airplane it wasn't whether Trump is in it or not they wanted to bring down

the airplane assuming Trump was in it if you knew that why are you putting the airplane

in the air that's what I didn't understand like what you have time Ankara is not like

Mars you're your couple hours from European cities including our bases just by some time

then you get everyone off the airplane you get them out of Ankara that's the thing

that I just don't understand from an operational perspective the decoy put people at risk

assuming that the intelligence was right unnecessarily that's the point.

So I just want to make sure I understand so what they could have done was spirit Trump

off but leave the plane that was the target on the ground and not board it with all the

people.

Exactly I'm team both planes and I my guess is they don't want to do it because they've

been getting so much crap about the first plane that they didn't they didn't they didn't

want to put into suspicion the second plane they should have done that.

Also the senior you're involving also involves the entire press corps being aware of the

ruse which is a risk that they perhaps didn't want to take that many more people become

aware of the ruse.

Well do you have to or you just don't board the plane.

No no no no it requires it requires.

The entire press corps to know there was a threat but not the ruse right.

I mean in other words your Trump is just they don't know where to.

You risk Trump off but they don't board the plane with all the other people.

You risk Trump off you get him to Germany now you've got yourself a lot of time he's

safe but why are you if the what we all understand is that the threat was against the airplane

because Trump was in it.

That threat still exists because it was a service to air missile whether the terrorist or

the horrible people knew that Trump was on it or not.

That's the thing that gets me sort of you know I don't think that this is normal.

I mean I don't think because the decoy was in fact putting people up on a plane.

Why did they need to move the second Air Force one?

This is what I don't understand.

You can get Trump they got Trump out of out.

I mean it's not even like you could they got him out without anyone knowing.

You protect the president everyone else you you wait a little bit.

And are you also saying that given all of the criticism of the lack of security features

on the Katari plane that it's understandable to then take another step which is they were

worried about the backlash against that.

So they didn't want they were making decisions that were basically optic PR decisions.

That is exactly right.

In the end that's the only explanation I have.

But all the decisions all the criticism about this Katari plane not having the security

measures is post facto.

That had not happened yet.

That only happened to happen.

No it didn't.

No it didn't.

The second it was bought you had a hundred people like me on CNN and that plane was that

we weren't first of all we're never going to see that plane again.

Mark my word to that that plane is is never it is not adequate for safety and security.

So.

Wow.

That's going to be a big disappointment to our president.

And he's very fond of that plane.

I know but that there's no way he's going back in that plane.

You're crying it away from his hands.

I know.

I know not not happy with this prediction.

I just want to say.

So one lives like me in the world of contingency planning and someone was willing to risk.

That's what decoy means is we want the terrorists to look there and potentially attack there.

That seems to me like you didn't have to have that option.

That's what no one's talking about.

I mean, the reason they didn't do what you described is also they didn't want necessarily

the world to know that there was a threat that they were reacting to.

They didn't want that to be out in the world.

And their deceptions were designed to prevent that from ever happening because they bring

Trump on off the plane as though I flew on the plane.

So that was their principle.

But that principle is way against another principle which is acceptable loss.

Because that's what I'm saying is that is that someone said, well, the benefit of not

being embarrassed of protecting the president, which as I've argued, I think there were ways

to protect him that were better alternatives versus we're going to put this thing in the

air.

The intel, as I understand it, was a surface to air missile.

They're looking at the airplane airplane.

That to me is the piece I can't literally think like who's who made that calculation,

given that there were alternatives.

But isn't the calculation, again, I recognize I'm arguing from a tremendous weakness here,

isn't the calculation?

If we reveal that we know there's a threat, if we act as though we don't know there's

a threat.

But yet we protect against the threat by having the president fly in this secret airplane.

But the world doesn't know that we know there's a threat.

Doesn't that give us intelligence optionality that we now, the people who have these malintent

don't know that we know that they have this malintent.

And that's an advantage that we have against them.

And that's the benefit we get by having the whole ruse take place.

Whereas if we reveal we know there's a threat, the people who have the threat now are like,

oh, they know they're on to us, we better stop.

In a world in which that's an empty plane, I'd agree with you.

But now you're sort of not balancing against at least my understanding and all of our

understanding is that the threat was against the airplane and you've now filled it and you're

now having it take off, whether the terrorist new Trump was on it or not.

And so that to me is yes, and none of this stuff is ideal.

An ideal world, all of this would have never been public.

But you have the president in two vulnerable airplanes.

And all I'm saying is there was there are alternative scenarios in which you're protecting

the president of the United States.

Again, this is a two or three hour flight to a military base.

Then you buy some time, right?

And so if it gets exposed, it gets exposed.

I mean, to me, like that, that seems like a minimal cost compared to putting lots of

people's lives at risk if it was real.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

One question I have for you, Juliet, which is you have presented this as a very credible

alternative scenario.

Yeah.

And I'm totally persu- I'm arguing with you just for the sake of argument.

What I want to know is be honest with yourself.

Like had you been presented with this set of facts and you're making the decision, would

you have immediately jumped to, okay, let's get him on a plane out of here.

That piece, that piece I'm with you.

Or do you only think of that X after the fact now that you know what they did?

No, no, no, that piece I'm with you.

Okay, let's all assume the threat was credible.

We now know Israel tends to, you know, create threats that don't exist.

So let's assume that the threat was credible.

The number one thing is you get him out of Ankara.

And that, but that's easy.

Once again, he's not on Mars.

This is, we've got contingency airplanes.

We've got military bases.

We've got all sorts of things to protect the body, the person of the president of the United

States.

Once you do that, you've got all the time in the world to worry about everyone else.

You think you would have immediately been like, oh yeah, we have a, this other plane.

We have a C32 over here.

Let's get him on that.

If I knew that the threat was a surface to air missile, neither of those air force ones

are, are, are leaving until that, until that threat is dissipated, you're getting everyone

off those planes.

Again, the threat was not the, the, the target was Trump.

The tactics were to get the plane.

And so in that instance, you can't, you really, you, you then have to think about sort

of, okay, we're going to protect Trump.

But if the plane is the target, why is it taking off?

Okay.

I'm persuaded.

Emily's already, Emily was persuaded to be on with.

Moments ago.

Yeah.

It's just like, you know, in these heated situations in which everyone's like, think is

like, just take a step back and think, okay, I'm going to accept everything the White

House says in terms of credible threat, in terms of getting Trump off, in terms of getting

him safely to an airplane.

And it's like, so then why did all this other stuff happen?

Right?

Why would they have air force to, you know, the second, the, the convention.

Or whatever, original air force one still take off.

Remember, he snuck back into it.

That to me was a calculation that the, that the benefits of not having to talk about

the vulnerabilities of the, of, of either the tar air force one or the increased threat

against Trump because of a war we, he started.

I mean, that's clearly why this is happening outweighed the risk to having lots of people

dead.

And change the subject to something that we didn't talk about talking about, but, but

I was talking with my girlfriend about this and it seems like a related kind of issue.

She is outraged that the New York Times and others are reporting the exact number of

Patriot Interceptors, the United States has and has used.

And she's, considers it sort of like, abetting our enemies to reveal that level of operational

detail.

I'm curious how you guys feel about that.

Well, it's just the kind of thing where it's like, I, I guess I have no issue with it

in particular because at some stage, the Pentagon is going to have to address this to Congress.

They have oversight bodies about what their, their preparedness for China for Congress.

But Congress is a, they can do that in a skiff.

I mean, they can, they don't have to give the specific, they don't have to give the specific

number.

Well, I mean, the budget, the budget, the budget, yeah, the budget wouldn't be, I, in

this case, I have, I mean, it's, it's a good question.

I, actually, I'm not really had any issue with it because it seemed to me that this is a,

this is not about operational tactics on the field in real time.

This is about our capacity to protect ourselves in the future, which the American public should

know, the consequences of a war that they, that they went into.

I mean, I, I guess I, I understand it.

But it's like, to me, it's like, okay, so you're going to get to zero and we're not going

to know like, yeah.

The political ramifications are too important.

It's too important to the democracy to have a sense of how the military is being managed

for future risks.

Right.

I think I agree with you.

You're, neither of you is saying, Julia, you're not saying like, if the New York Times

reported the battery of patriots and I'm on Jordan, it's fully out.

They have none left.

Yeah.

I think when you're putting troops at risk on the ground because you're dealing, you know,

movements or vulnerabilities, like you just said, in real time, that goes too far.

And I think news organizations actually try not to do that.

And then they check in with the government.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

But the, but the, I guess the question is, if you're, if the answer is like, over down

to, you know, it now looks like, you know, 20% of the capacity that we had a few months

ago, you could say that that is putting, that is an operational risk or you could say,

like, no, that is just alerting the, the public.

I think it's a part of a strategy assessment about how, for how much further we can fight

this war, how much it should be funded.

I think it's, which the American people needs to be able to participate in that to be.

It sounds like, okay, you know, maybe it's right not to do that.

But then think about what that would mean.

For example, our strategic oil reserve is at its lowest ever because Trump is pulling

from it because of the price of gas.

That arguably could be about our ability to sustain not just this war, but other wars.

But no one doubts that that is part of a public calculation or public discourse and congressional

discourse about the consequences of this war.

And I think, I think the impact that it has in the same way that we should be pretty

transparent about the number of injuries and the number of deaths.

Like I think, you know, there are consequences for military action that the American public

should should be cognizant of.

I mean, you're always balancing interests between the public and keeping the public

informed and the government being able to protect, you know, its sense of what the vulnerabilities

are.

And, you know, I think we're arguing for having a very narrow sphere of censorship

because the other way lies like a total lack of transparency and there goes lots of.

And also, I think that the one of the assumptions, I think embedded in what my girlfriend

was saying is that Congress is an effective watchdog also.

And if you have a Congress that is so feckless and is so compliant with the president,

we'd have transparency on what?

Yeah, right.

I can't assume that in a properly functioning government, there would be congressional

oversight.

They would be absolutely all over Pete Higgseth for the patriots and they would be, you

know, they would have been raising us and there'd be like having secret hearings about

it all the time and holding the Pentagon to account.

But even if they were, I mean, that would help, I would be happier in that timeline,

but it still wouldn't make me think that we should put a thumb in the scale for secrecy

and censorship in this scenario because I still think you want the American public to be

able to evaluate these things in real time before the next election.

Yeah, I mean, some of the numbers now, I mean, just, I mean, the equivalent would be,

let's say 2000 or 3000 soldiers have been taken off the field because of either temporary

or longer term impact from a variety of reasons, the American public should know that as well,

even though it's about readiness, right?

Because we should know about the consequences of a war who, you know, from the beginning

where no one's quite clear why we're in it anyway.

Yeah, I think I guess we're just talking about what the boundary of operational, securing

the safety of individual soldiers and protecting the success of the operation is with the public's

right to know and like where that boundary exists.

We should have an inject from your girlfriend like for every segment like and what does she think?

I like it.

She's smart.

Yeah.

I like it.

She's smart.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

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President Trump was rebuffed in a few small ways at the Supreme Court this term.

A term where he got lots of big wins but he did reject his effort to limit birthright

citizenship.

They also declared his use of an obscure law to impose basically universal tariffs illegal

and they blocked his effort, at least initial effort to fire a Fed governor without a process.

But President Trump is of course a man who has never taken no for an answer and what is

he doing now, Emily, pick your favorite circumvention?

Well the tariffs are a big one.

I mean he has other statutory authority for those tariffs and so until there's a court

challenge that blocks him he can go ahead and do that and this was always a possible tool

in his toolbox and I wonder if these statutory authorities are really going to hold up.

I also think in the end this is about a political referendum not so much a legal one.

It was important that the Supreme Court given I think the clarity of the first statute

that he used and the lack of obvious legal authority that the Supreme Court issued its

ruling blocking him but there are these other laws at issue and ultimately the question

is whether the public thinks these tariffs are a good idea and then specifically what

he did was he used, he did an investigation to make a claim that child labor countries

in the European Union were not taking sufficient safeguards against child labor and that was

an unfair trade practice and under Section 301 of some particular law he could then impose

a bunch of tariffs.

So they went through a process found an unfair trade practice what a surprise they found

it everywhere they wanted to look and impose the tariffs.

So that's what they're doing now.

And they're very concerned about child labor in this Trump White House.

Yes I'm sorry thank you for those specifics you're right.

So yes we'll see if the specifics of the statute allow that justification to hold up.

Ultimately I think as I was saying that this is a political question about whether the American

people wants tariffs and then beyond that whether Congress needs to pull back on some

of these emergency powers and broad, purportedly broad sweeping powers that the president

appears to have to impose these tariffs merely through his signing of the document right

the stroke of the pen as opposed to going for Congress.

Like those are deep questions and we should have that debate vociferously and you know

we'll see like how that all lands but that is ultimately my answer to the tariffs question.

I think on birthright citizenship you know there are these different categories pretty

small as I understand it slices of people who are going to be affected by them.

It has a kind of shaking of the fist quality about it and I think the part of it that bugs

me is the only part of it that's sticking at least in my head is this idea of trying

to end you know what's called birthright tourism right this idea that people get visas

and they come and they have their babies and then they leave again and then they leave

with an American passport for this baby who's been born.

If this is a real problem as I understand it the State Department already has regulations

that allows it to deny visas to very pregnant women who seem to be showing up to have a

baby and leave and that has always been my beef with the birth tourism fury is that like

it just seems like we can just deny these visas if it's really a big problem.

There seems to be no consensus on how many people actually do this and I think a lot

of like it just seems like yeah sure that's not great.

We don't need to be authorizing people to come into the country and have a baby and leave

like what do we get out of that birth tourism but the idea that like this is a fundamental

problem for you know American democracy and a huge threat etc.

It reminds me of voter fraud like this very small thing that sure should be against the

law but then is used to justify all of these larger pieces of a political agenda that

is like pretty disturbing.

So that was my main thing it seemed to feel like it's a performance to me more than anything

else.

I mean I think the numbers that have been floated around birth tourism are not nothing.

They're like thousands like maybe 20 to 25 thousand.

Yeah.

And then you see it's actually one third of one percent of all US births is another number

of people.

Which is not again that is not nothing.

Okay fine then let's crack down on it.

Let's not issue visas to women who are more than six months pregnant like I don't whatever

I don't that seems fine.

Seven months pregnant eight months pregnant pick your number.

I mean I just like we could do that and they can just like waste a lot of time on that

if that's a thing that people are exercised about.

They're also going after sort of non diplomatic embassy staff who have children.

I mean these are I cannot tell I mean in the immigration world like these are like they're

like not even like grains of salt in the issues that one needs to deal with with immigration

both lawful and unlawful.

I mean and that's like you know that's just on Emily's point like the doubling down like

you know it's the president yeah I don't know if I believe polls anymore after less

couple of primaries but the president at least consistently is at 34 32% of popularity.

So there's a rational person who is in leadership would look at that and say something's you

know whatever I'm doing is not popular it's not getting the results I want so maybe

I'll rethink this war maybe I'll rethink immigration maybe I'll but you know the president

isn't that way I mean he he basically thinks through sort of you know if he just if he

just you know like Sisyphus if he just keeps trying to roll that rock up the hill he will

be popular and loved and on Mount Rutchmore and and this doubling down on these cases where

they're trying to find you know this sort of you know another way to circumvent the supreme

court which is also not very popular is going to be the tactic I mean I think for the next

two years especially if he does not succeed or is it's very unpopular in November because

he doesn't really have a pathway to grow he just has a pathway to make life very miserable

or very acoustic for a lot of people I see this in immigration space it's not just birthright

citizenship so you remember everyone remembers secretary gnome and her performative immigration

and blah blah blah you know then like to Americans dead and she lies all the time in whatever

so this guy Mullins Senator Mullin becomes secretary of Homeland Security I was looking at the

numbers for July because someone like me does and it was the highest deportation month

and all of Trump 2.0 34,000 I think it's just being done in a way that like you know is more quiet

they they're not learning lessons because God knows who these people are whether they're just

to fight deport deportees is just that they just keep doing what they're doing regardless of

what the politics or the law are telling them they're just doing it on the immigration front

they're just doing it more quietly there was a terrible story I can't remember was in the times

of the post about the man who was deported to a swatini to a maximum security prison just a guy

who he had you know he had committed a crime as a young person in the States a long time ago

and then they use this as a pretext to deport him to a place where he has literally no

recourse to do anything he can't leave he can't there's no appeal he's not being there's no charges

against him he's just being held in a maximum security prison in a country about which he knows

nothing and it's just there's no mean it's it's like some incredible version of hell I mean Emily

he Trump has not maybe this is a small relief he has not literally violated any of the Supreme Court

orders yet right yeah that's right and that is a relief from where we started I mean I think

it is important to remember that there are lots of district court orders and immigration cases

and some other cases that the administration has steamrolled over but yes it is true that they

have respected the Supreme Court's rulings and found ways to you know go around them or challenge

them on the edges go around them I suppose in the tariff case challenge on the edges in birthright

citizenship and sure I mean that's better than to find the court absolutely on the birthright

citizenship stuff can he do any of this operationally as a matter of process could he in fact

deny citizenship to people or is that not not even his in his oh he can do it wheelhouse is that

not even something he is able to do because it is a state authority and therefore even if he declares

you know not embassy staffers can't get birth certificates that's not for him to set he can do it

he can do it yeah there's there's litigation already against these because people are impacted he

he's done it in other words I mean this is it's the executive order mandates that the state department

and DHS do the x y or z so it's done so the litigation that people are going to see coming up

through the district courts are are potentially impacted plaintiffs what is citizenship what do you

mean literally what is it so you get a birth certificate your birth certificates as you're born in the

United States yes what is citizenship how do I know that I'm a US citizen I mean your papers once

they say that you're a birth certificate that you're a US citizen but where does it say that on

my paper what papers like that have to have a passport to be a citizen no in your birth certificate on

your birth certificate not less people don't have passports right yeah no country but country

of birth is not but what we just said is country of birth like people there are in fact people are

ready who country of birth these United States who are not US citizens if they're the children

of an ambassador yeah like a very tiny number of them are in a special category and they get a

different piece of paper I'm not trolling here I'm literally trying to ask a question which is like

what is it when you say the Trump is denying citizenship like what is actually if you think

philosophically or not even philosophically literally what is citizenship so there be rights and

benefits there there be rights and benefits that accrue to citizens only in the United States

whether the first is or whatever which which may not accrue until you're 18 if you want to vote if

you want to do military like there are categories so if you want to draw for example if you if you

you get a different mark on your piece of paper that does not say that being born in the United

States it makes you a citizen right and who puts the mark like what is that mark and it isn't that

a doesn't a state put that mark on your you mean at 50 state no no the states don't all have

their own separate marks that go a lot no that's not how it works but I when your children my

children were born the only entity I dealt with was the DC was a hospital which was octane

or the ambit of DC there was no federal official the back room of that system is the federal law

that is telling states right the federal law which the states have to buy to is telling states

x y and z right this this would be the you know the here's what the birth certificate whatever

driver's license for example there are federal way each state provides drivers license right but

federal law says no one under the age of I don't know for it is at 14 or 15 and then states can go

15 to 18 or whatever like there so there is are there back rooms in which the the federal government

is guiding or mandating from the state what that would be but you're it is very true that the first

time you would draw upon the need to to have the federal government assert your citizenship would be

when you want to passport you could live in your house for a long period of time before someone said

where are you from but but it's you know it the first interaction for many would be a federal U.S.

passport okay you happy with that you drag you not happy with it I'm not happy with it I'm not happy

with it I think I feel like there's some moment in which people become a citizen yeah when they're

almost everyone that moment is when you are born on U.S. soil and then there is a tiny universe of

people who are the children of foreign diplomats or like the children of people who invaded the country

we don't have the hostile invade our children and it doesn't count in their instances and so at some

point in their lives when they try to declare a U.S. citizenship somebody says like no you can have

this document and maybe that person is a state official because the state officials are standing in

for the federal officials I mean there's terrible stuff happening with transgender people losing

their driver's license in Kansas right now and that is happening from the state law right so like

there's an example of getting caught up in exactly this kind of terrible red tape we thought you

were being much more profound when you said what is citizenship no like we thought you were like

a doing a birchian you know like is it the vote is it the you literally meant like what yeah

you literally meant like I'm well I do get it we've gone on too long we've both

we've brow be you are just a man of fest on Emily's face through this whole thing julie had

his like very tolerant yeah she is tolerating you because she doesn't have to talk to you every week

but you you Emily god 21 years of this shit are like oh no no no no I'm sorry okay moving on

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today with car gurus at car gurus dot com go to car gurus dot com to make sure your big deal is the

best deal that's c ar g ur us dot com car gurus dot com there is a bizarre and confusing fight over

burritos that is coursing through mago or what is a burrito david no that is actually that is a

fucking profound question that is i think there is it is it is it is it a sandwich is it a sandwich

i think that is a bird you order a takeout from japan or do you make it in your own house in

which case it is much cheaper so the fight about burritos is a fight about inflation that's also

a fight about the ron war that's also a fight about to the general in civility and meanness that

defines a bag of political culture so very briefly yeah very very briefly a right when commentator

matt wallesh talked about high grocery prices being a problem for president trump a turning point

USA person named andric culvert then had a comment that a one of his turning point USA college

students had said given his given his taken affordability of redo shouldn't cost $20 this in turn

led to a whole series of responses about burritos including a pro or on war conservative mark

teeson mocking college students for buying burritos when they get free ones at a college cafeteria

which led jd vans in turn to fat shame teeson by tweeting about how he had never missed a burrito

that vans teeson side show actually being really being about teeson having attack vans for a

softness on a ron or something and then there's this sort of then the book so there's the burrito

discourse going on over here the ron discourse over here they're connected so juliet what is this

fight about fundement oh my god i okay i have to when i when when when we were all emailing about

various topics and i consider myself like pretty plugged in and i think i had seen some of the

tweets about this but thought it like truly was about burritos like i was like you know and then

when i read i read into it it is it is quite something i mean i think that there's first of all

let's just make clear the the $20 burrito and complaints about it like came out of nowhere like

there's not like there's like a receipt or anything i mean yes we all know that we could you could

probably go someplace and get a $20 burrito but the the the idea of the $20 burrito i think is a

is a proxy for the war i mean i think it is you know you hear lots of discourse about well it's just

because we pay people too much to serve us and that's where the prices are or kids are lazy and they

don't shop which is just not true in my experience i mean but grocery prices are quite expensive too

because you can't buy one flower burrito generally you've got to buy like everything all at once

but i think in the end and why you got why jadey vance just you know he loses it it's really weird

i mean you just sort of see him sort of spiral in terms of these ad homin at homin attacks that

behind it is that the war is going poorly we've lost although i mean there's just no question now

that we've we've lost trump cannot figure out a way to extricate from it the Iranians have more time

in the world to make this hurt for us there's just no question about it now in terms of the

straight of of hormones we've lost allies we've lost the golf gas prices are going up supply chain

prices are going up and this might have all happened but for the war but the war also because it's

inconsistent with what trump promised about not getting into new wars is what this magnified is

really about it's not about burritos it's about baklava i just made that up that was really bad

but i'm just trying to i think i think it's a proxy for the war i mean it's very bad terrain for

there are publicants to be fighting on right the idea that like oh it's just a bunch of whiny

college kids complaining about these prices and it's only because they don't want to cook at home

like this is not where you want to be politically right you're like telling people they're being

whiny over price increases and you're also interfering with their lifestyle choices like none of

that seems good and you know jd vance seems to be willing to be rude and think that that's like

part of his mega persona in a way that is like hmm i'm going to stay away from the word deplorable

because it has turned into a problem but it just seems unfortunate that our vice president wants to

be making like fat insults at conservative commentator who's real sin it seems in vance's eyes

was that he had criticized trump's war effort like that's just who want that why like why are we at

this place in this discourse it's interesting july that you say i mean this is reveal something

about each of our worldviews that you say it's about the iran war and i say it's just about

affordability yeah i mean i guess maybe these are i would say it's fundamentally about affordability

they're connected it's not really about the iran war but yeah i mean your inflation is the issue

that kills politicians politicians it just can't do it and while it is absolutely the case i mean

when you get when you kind of dig into the numbers and many people have dug into the numbers the

food prices have gone up food prices however have gone up more or less at the pace that wages have

gone up it's other things that are going up like used cars yeah and and health care and how housing

have gone up at and much faster rates but but still the burrito is a the burrito is a wonderful

metaphor it's a wonderful way of thinking about it were you guys and i say this to you as as women

as amused and sort of shocked by the various men one particularly talking about how his wife had

made burritos for for maybe eight people for less than twenty dollars and what was funny about that

was that it values the labor of their spouse at zero yeah yeah so it's just the ingredients as if

that's the way we should think about food yeah and the ingredients are clearly pre-bought so i mean

that's the there is no way you can get i cook a lot you get flour burritos you no less than four

dollars you get salsa ground beef for that many people even chicken is going to be for you know

you're you're not doing this for under twenty dollars and but i do think a lot of it is the sort of

the behind it the sort of trad wife trad spouse if my wife can do it these kids can do it i think the

story of feeding your 18 kids or however many kids that is just it's just a lie that said can we or at

least can i complain a little bit about the lack of cooking i mean right this does relate to an

earlier internet debate about door dash and how much money people are spending on door dash and

whether it's actually like people who don't make a lot of money who are spending the most on door

dash i mean i do know a lot of young people who yeah don't cook very much and do spend extra money

by constantly ordering takeout and yeah i kind of do just like disapprove of that i

we just because it just seems like you're missing a life skill and it's not great now it is also

true that the food that you can order in that someone can deliver your house you know that fast

casual food is like healthier and better than fast food was in the past and so maybe i'm just

being like judge mental and super annoying mom to complain about this but there is a loss that

in all of this but when you cook in wait Emily just pause i mean maybe you were cooking i did not

cook in that the original commentator was a college student college students don't cook i mean

the choices like well no i don't think that's true a lot of college students live off campus and i

happened to be one of them the second half of college and that is actually when i learned to cook

and it's also happens to be the time when i was like the most frugal because we were living in a

half shared house and we all put in a certain amount of money every week and then we stuck to that

amount so maybe that's weird but i don't think it's that weird and i think that that's a time of

life in which it's actually really good idea to learn how to make a bunch of basic things

that then you can feed yourself but really i'm just complaining about a certain child who i know well

no that's a that's a that's a purpose do you know what your child who lives two and a half blocks from

Chipotle and does door dash do you know someone like that huh perhaps i do juliet yeah yeah i may

know someone like that it that's that that that's the thing that like you know get off your it's

laziness but i do think life skills what's interesting is on the burrito thing is that this week

Robert Kennedy junior secretary Robert Kennedy junior started his own youtube show on cooking

healthy cooking that teaches people how to cook at home for cheap and healthy cooking i will say

something he's you know whatever i will say something there are some serious cooks on it in a good

way that are trying to teach people which i do think is good life skills about how do you make it

you can make an omelet for five dollars that is for sure you can make a really good omelet for

for very cheap so i do think these life skills are important and uh but you know some of it is

you know if both parents are working and you've got 17 minutes to make dinner before everyone

starts yelling you just don't have time to teach people oh believe me i remember that what is the

two of you like you're i don't know i work i work from home and so i the highlight of my day is

i make myself lunch yeah do you guys make yourself lunch often i'm like more of a grayser for lunch i

make dinner but i'm like yeah but if you're if you have to make a solo meal for yourself

do you do you make a meal it's very rare that i make a meal just for myself i just don't bother like

i don't care enough but i will do something like oh i'm home alone and there's like extra broccoli

in the refrigerator and so i'll just like roast it and then eat that with something else right like i

usually do something that involves some preparation but mostly now in my empty nest life i mean i

certainly make meals just for me and paul but usually i make extra you know all the things that

just like save time and i really reserve like cooking with like forethought and care for when

there are more people around yeah i i we have had the totally opposite or totally like you know

i would read instagrams or sees instagrams of like empty nesters and we're taking cooking classes

and making ty food whatever like you know if i'm alone my favorite meal is like cereal in a red

beer cup in front of the tv like this is just you know i've waited 20 years for this moment and i'm

getting to take it but we have not our marketing expenses are quite low because you know if there's

cheese and salami we're fine but that's because we go out more and same with Emily when the kids

are there i'll cook everyone will cook but david you love cooking so i feel like you have a different

relationship to this i do love cooking but i also have been effectively an empty nester because

of divorce for longer and now i live with my my girlfriend i don't know i cook dinner almost

every night wow and for two of us wow well and you're really good at it and it like has all kinds

of good spillover effects for that reason plus your you know you're still you're still young and love so

now i'm joking Emily and i are cereal in a red cup

cereal monogamy in a red i know exactly i just monogamy in a red cup wait your girlfriend made two

of the three segments i'm really happy about this i'm not sure she will be i know she may be a little

irritated oh well let's go to cocktail chatter when when you do that kiam we're filling that red solo

cup oh it's not with cereal but with straight vodka what are you going to be chattering to mr kiam

about i would like to make a confession that i have changed teams and this summer i became what's

called a dnf which is do not finish books i used to be i know it's a big debate i just i was you know

whatever i thought about the book i would finish it and then i just maybe it's aging maybe it's

just i enjoy reading so i don't want it to be i enjoy fiction i enjoy thrillers i don't i don't

want it to be burdensome so i would be talking about joining club dnf which is life is short

drop the book even if you know because i'm like a pop i am like you know what's popular like

especially in fiction like what you know some of the most popular books right now i started and

i was like i'm not feeling it bad yeah yeah the one about the tradwife i'm just now for you know

and that's you know obviously she's amazing i was a hundred pages into it it just didn't speak to me

that everyone in the world i know is reading it like would have bothered me and i would have finished

you got a taste you know what it is yeah i mean dnf i've come that way about tv shows which i also

used to be like a completist about i'm now willing to be like yeah liberating liberating okay

we should just do shatter books i did not finish yeah you've already given one

yes your year is really yes Emily Baz what about you my family has had a very crazy summer in which

yes my older son Eli Sabin was running for state representative in new haven and he won his

democratic primary on Tuesday it was a three-way race it was tough he worked his ass off

and in addition to congratulating Eli i just want old door knocking man i mean he knocked on

door dash yeah different from door dash he knocked on he has counted six thousand doors

talked i think like 1400 people in his district and it's a small enough race state rep in

Connecticut that you really can like meet a lot a lot of people and that was how he won and it

was really interesting i mean there's political science research to back up this way of going

about campaigning and watching it unfold in real time was pretty moving i mean i think

Eli just learned a lot about what was on people's minds i mean obviously lots of people did not

want to talk to him did not answer the door all the things that people do but i guess i would say

that if a politician knocks on your door it is like a chance for it's it's it's it's when they come to

you right it's not you having to like show up for something and package what you want to say um and

so it's an opportunity to like change and shape their thinking in some way i mean i think it really

taught Eli a tremendous amount to listen to people and try to understand their concerns so

door knocking to win a local election can i say several things number one congratulations Emily

yay yes the wonderful man i had him on your city could be better as i mentioned last week so smart

so public minded you should be so proud um number two i was telling him when he was on the podcast

with me that the first story i remember reading about Anthony weiner was when Anthony weiner was

running for his first office which maybe with state rep maybe it was state house i can't remember

uh maybe his house for as a representative he no matter what happened if someone went when someone

was shutting the door in his face he would always yell weiner and how'd that go for him and he was

he said to the reporter who was following he's like i like that to be the last thing they hear oh my god

i don't know and three i don't know if you want to mention this like there was this amazing moment

that you had with Jamie raskin i was just thinking about that yes so we had Jamie raskin

the congressman for Maryland on the gap that's for a live show several months ago and i was telling him

about Eli running for office and very animatedly he told us the story of his first congressional race in

which he challenged a long time incumbent which was what Eli was also doing and he was given like a tiny

chance of winning in the beginning and so he also rolled out the door knocking strategy you know as

a young energetic person went everywhere talked as many people as possible but he also told us that

after every conversation he would jot down some kind of note something personal and then that night

go back and send that person a postcard thank you for talking to me so glad to meet you and that

just seems like a really um good way to go about connecting with people so thank you congressman

raskin for that idea did he like take that up you like did do a lot of that yes well i was watching

you talk to Jamie you raskin about it and i was just like wow that is that was great i was like

oh something's happening here yeah yes you're reminding me that i should circle back beyond just

the gap fest um about that anyway you i learned a lot amazing my chatter just a book i finished

in a tv show i finished i'm sure you guys have read London falling the Patrick Keif book yeah wow

and i finished it so what a great book anyway if you haven't read it it's Patrick's book about a

young boy young man i guess 19 year old in London from a just a upper middle class

Jewish family who ends up involved with incredibly dark cd dangerous world and dies and it's just

Patrick trying to explain how it happened and in the course of it paints this amazing portrait of

London and the the way in which London has been taken over by or parts of London have been taken over

by class of crooks and mobsters many of them of russian origin it's a great great book really

vivid and then also a documentary that my girlfriend who i'm gonna breath i'm gonna drop

reference and everything and i watched this past week which was on hbo which we ended up watch i

don't know why we started we just started watching it because we weren't watching anything else and

it popped up the man will burn which is about burning man which i've never been to

know nothing new nothing about really never a little about oh that did look good i'm glad you're

reminding me about that it's really really really good and it made me i mean it made me

incredibly sympathetic to the burning man ethos and to the kind of what it represents

and to the the kind of idea of burning things as a way of having some form of transition and

peace but also the people depicted in it are like they're acting from ideals that are profound and

they believe in deeply and there's you know there's a ridiculousness to it and a performance to it

that is definitely there but the the spirit of it is is kind of glorious and i was really persuaded

and it's just beautifully shot it's just beautifully shot and it's burning man itself is beautiful

awesome great thank you listeners you've got uh chatters you've emailed them to us at gaffes.

it's like.com please keep them coming to keep us diverted and entertained and our listener

chatter this week comes from peter in Pennsylvania hi gaffest this is peta from westchester

for my chatter i would like to recommend the book material world by ed comway and his related

podcast stuff matters ed looks at the complexities of the intricate supply chains that make up our

modern world from silicon chips to advanced metal alloys explains why today's silicon chips

rely on technologies from many countries including a unique form of high purity quartz from north

carolina that forms the crucibles for melting high papyr silicon he also describes there are the

comical perseverance of suji nakamura against his employer's wishes to make a blue led and why that

development was important enough to lead to a Nobel Prize as alliances and trade partnerships

begin to break down in this new era this stuff really will matter and we are likely to continue

to be surprised by shortages and increasing costs gaffest is not the only slate podcast this week

you should also listen to slate money the unwanted art boom feel examin is so good on art and the

art market and art collection and he talks he's the host of slate money he talks with Elizabeth

Spires and laypeck about boomers collecting things and how the boomer collections are going to get

passed down but how younger generations don't seem to collect things and don't want things so

I can't wait to listen to this Felix talking about unwanted art unwanted collections that is all

for our episode this week we also have bonus episode in your feed we're going to talk about flock

cameras those cameras that are watching you they're watching you right now that's only for slate

plus members though so become a slate plus member and find out who's watching you you can subscribe

to slate plus directly from the political gaffest show page on apple podcast and Spotify we're

going to slate dot com slash gaffest plus to get access wherever you listen do it come on you never

hit the paywall on the slate slate you get bonus episodes from us another podcast discounts to our

live shows come on join that's our show for today the political gaffest was produced today by

Jay coburn back did such a good job the first time he's back again our researcher is this week

noramosis also did such a good job last time the cheese back again Emily and you know our

vacation will be back soon our theme music is by they might be giants Ben Richmond is senior director

for podcast operations me low bell executive producer slate podcasts and Hillary fries at

during chief of slate Emily Baselon and the incomparable Julia Kayam and David plots thanks for

listening we'll talk to you next week.

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