Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma and The Brink of War | #1076
2026-08-14 05:00:00 • 1:17:49
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What kind of a show are you guys putting on here today?
You're not interested in art?
No.
Well, look, we're going to do this thing.
We're going to have a conversation.
From Chicago, this is FilmSpotting.
I'm Adam Kempanar, and I'm Josh Larson.
Out of here, there are certain knots when you just get this feeling.
There's some sacco killer,
a set-up chopp you up at 20 other little bases.
Oh, I like that feeling.
Director Jane Shownbrun may be flying under some people's radires,
but they're quickly becoming one of the most exciting filmmakers
of their generation.
The new Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Measma
is the director's follow-up to 2024's I Saw the TV Below.
We've got a review plus the new The Brink of War starring Jeff Daniels.
Baton Moore ahead on FilmSpotting.
Welcome to FilmSpotting.
Josh, we're talking about Jane Shownbrun this week.
They made, we're all going to the world's fair in 2022.
That was a golden brick nominee for us.
Then in 2024, I saw the TV glow.
That made your top 10 list.
It was a movie I recommended as well.
Now, they've made Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Measma.
If my math is correct, and I'm not great at math,
that means it's their third film.
That's prompted our pure question.
That's prompted.
They're full.
Thank you.
The new deeply flawed film spotting poll
is asking about other third features
that have come out this decade.
I think it's a fun one.
Yeah, we'll get into those options.
I was just looking at the list, Sam put together.
I realized, man, we've got some great filmmakers of,
and not even up and coming anymore,
but a younger generation putting things out.
And kind of made me excited about where we're at,
where cinema is at.
So before to talking about where we would vote in that poll.
Yes.
And giving those options to listeners.
I think I know where people are going to vote,
but film spotting listeners always surprise us.
Also later in the show, I caught up with the new
Brink of War, starring Jeff Daniels as Ronald Reagan.
In that cold war era, drama.
A reminder, film spotting is now available as a video podcast.
You can watch us over at youtube.com slash film spotting.
Up now, Teenage Sex and Death.
I can't be asthma.
Hi.
I'm Billy Presley.
He must be the writer director.
Yeah, hi.
You came out of nowhere.
I didn't know you were in here.
I was sorry.
I saw you when I wanted to scare you.
Not too long into Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Me Asma,
former screen queen, Billy Presley,
played by Jillian Anderson,
patiently listens to a treatise from Chris.
A young film director played by Hannah Einbinder.
Chris talks at length about the real meaning of the original
Camp Me Asma slasher that Billy starred in,
and how Chris plans to deconstruct that 1983 film
with her planned reboot.
Chris explains, quote,
My work explores the intersection of queerness
and cultural depictions of monstrosity.
Billy, matter of fact,
responds that the first Camp Me Asma movie was about
little more than, quote, flesh and fluids.
What does our pop culture mean to us, Adam?
This is a question that appears to mesmerize Jane Shonbrum,
the writer and director of Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Me Asma.
And with this third feature, now one of the defining voices
in American cinema working today, to my mind.
In Shonbrum's debut, we're all going to the world's fair,
the teen protagonist gives herself over to an online horror game.
Something comparable happens in I Saw the TV Glow,
where a pair of unlikely friends bond over a cheapo sci-fi TV series
until it swallows them whole.
In Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Me Asma, Chris, the young director,
thinks she has a handle on the handle
that the Me Asma Slasher series has on her.
But while staying with the reclusive Billy Presley
over a few days on her remote Pacific Northwest estate,
Chris begins to realize that her relationship
to Slasher's cinema and sex is much more complicated
than the intellectualization she has confidently offered.
Not to sound too much like Chris
and make this academic atom,
because Camp Me Asma is a ton of fun, which I'm sure we'll get into.
I do want to start with a larger question about Shonbrum's work thus far,
from online horror to sci-fi TV, now to Slasher's.
What do Shonbrum's films suggest about contemporary popular culture
and our relationship to it?
And how do you see Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Me Asma fitting into that?
Oh man, you are starting off difficult, going into professor mode right off the bat.
You're limited to 500 words.
Okay.
I'm going to tell you that.
Great. What does it say?
We like to watch.
We like to watch ourselves.
We like to be naughty.
But we can't admit it,
because flesh and fluids make us uncomfortable.
You could go with,
you could go with our lives are completely mediated through screens.
That's fairly pedestrian, but that's there as well.
I don't know if any of that's what you had in mind or particularly insightful.
But I am fascinated that you posed that question,
because well, I think it's fertile, my processing of this film,
in the moment and in the aftermath.
I guess I'm going to dodge here a little bit.
But truly, it has little to do with culture.
I think I'm going to get into it deep enough for your liking, Josh,
here over the course of this conversation.
So bear with me.
Okay.
It does have little to do with culture.
Looking back at my notes,
that also isn't really how I processed,
I saw the TV glow either.
Whereas the main characters online immersion
and the blurring of fantasy and reality
and we're all going to the world's fair,
that did seem more ripe for extrapolation and interpretation.
And maybe part of that was simply that we didn't have any relationship
to show and bronze work at the time.
And now over three films,
we feel like we do.
But I saw,
can't be asthma through a personal lens.
And I'll go inside out.
I saw it through the lens of
an Inbinder's queer filmmaker, Chris,
coming to terms with her sexuality.
I saw it through the lens of
Shownbrun as a trans filmmaker
and a trans filmmaker in Hollywood.
Sure.
And I saw it through my lens as an individual viewer.
Whatever resonance Chris's journey
and potentially Shownbruns has for me.
I think the depiction of Chris's journey
is so specific that it will resonate
with a lot of viewers,
whether they're, of course, in Hollywood or filmmakers
or their queer.
It doesn't matter.
You don't have to have anything directly in common with her or not.
That's how specific this film is.
And I do want to say this too.
Generally,
Metacritic lists this movie,
the genres as drama, horror, romance, and thriller.
I might take issue with thriller a little bit,
but otherwise it's accurate.
On IMDB, they have the same four,
but they also have first,
Slasher Horror.
And here and there on the internet,
others just refer to this movie as Slasher Horror
or a Slasher Film.
Yeah.
Nobody lists it as a comedy.
Even though this is, I think, a deeply funny movie.
And that's absolutely it.
Yeah.
And the first movie I watched this year,
that I immediately wanted to sit down and watch again,
because there's enough mystery in it to reward another viewing.
But also, I'm going to agree with you,
but also because it's just so damn much fun.
Any movie that combines sunset boulevard,
well, first, Texas Chainsaw Massacre
with Friday the 13th and the Shining and Sunsets boulevard.
And it fuses all of that with a lynchy insensibility,
has to be, and it does all of that.
But what's the key is that it does all of that
and has shown bronze distinct point of view.
When we talk about, I was thinking,
I was thinking about this.
This is where all my notes led me,
and I wonder if you agree.
When we talk about, and we do, all critics do this.
When we talk about an emerging filmmaker,
someone with just a few films under their belt,
and their maturing is a filmmaker,
or if they're a director or a writer director,
aren't we almost invariably talking about that development
only in terms of craft, higher production value,
even more intentionality in their camera work and editing,
maybe being even more innovative, more experimental,
better control of tone,
drawing out more refined performances.
All of that is true for me here,
but what makes teenage sex and death so exciting
is that Shining and Sunsets' evolution as a filmmaker
seems to be unfolding in tandem
with a deeper realization of self.
That's what I see in the progression
from World's Fair to Camp Niasma,
and that's what I'll try to unpack a little bit here
as we get through the conversation.
But that's my reaction to this film,
where you with this movie,
and do you have a grand take in terms of culture with Camp Niasma?
I think that's fair.
I think we see that in terms of a sense of self
with other filmmakers,
but Shonrun's material is so directly tied
to their own experience that it's at the forefront,
and two, it's credit.
This is the opposite of naval gazing,
because it is speaking from a personal place
in a way that resonates beyond anyone
who's coming from a trans experience.
Honestly, we talked about this with I Saw The TV Glow,
which was a more clear, parable allegory,
whatever tone you want to use,
yet the two of us found it deeply moving and affecting.
So I think that's true in terms of an emerging filmmaker.
This is why it's so exciting,
is because there is that control of the exploration
of personal interests and themes.
It's so funny what you say about how to what genre to place this in.
Now I'm in knots because I stupidly,
when I designed my website,
put a genre tag that I have to give,
and it's only bedevil to me since,
and I have no idea what I'm going to do with this one.
Maybe I'll just agree with you and go with comedy.
I also had a note early on Adam
that I abandoned while watching this movie.
I think it was when Chris goes to check in at the hotel,
and we get her conversation with the clerk
who mentions how he had a part in an earlier Camp Me Asma movie,
and it starts to feel a little unnerving,
and I just wrote down,
will this work as a horror movie?
I threw out that question 20 minutes later,
because it no longer mattered to me.
It's writing its own rules every 10 minutes.
It's their different rules.
That's so pertinent and applicable to the film
as a whole once you've seen it, isn't it?
Absolutely.
It didn't even matter to me whether it was working
as a horror movie after a certain point.
Even though there are some scary moments, sure.
Far more funny moments.
I won't belabor what does pop culture mean to us point?
If it's not quite as interesting to you,
I think for me, it does relate, however,
to what you're saying about this being a personal movie.
I think one of the things Shone Braun is working through,
who seems to have experienced much of life via pop culture.
This may be the only way I would compare them to Quentin Tarantino,
because I think it's a very important thing
that I would compare them to Quentin Tarantino,
because I think they're worlds apart in so many crucial ways.
But you do get the sense from most of Tarantino's movies
that this is someone who's only lived movies, really.
I would not say that you get the sense Shone Braun
has only lived pop culture,
but these three movies do suggest to me
that trying to figure out who you are,
I should say, has been mediated for Shone Braun.
As it is for many people through online horror games,
through a crappy TV series.
That's right.
Beloved.
Beloved.
And now cinema here.
Right.
And now, and specifically, slasher.
And so I would say what does our pop culture mean to us
for Shone Braun, the filmmaker, at least,
it means everything.
It is not how we pass the time.
It is not what we do for entertainment.
It is not just part of modern life.
Pop culture is life.
And I think what's interesting and has,
and I think there's a distinction with Camp Measma
from their previous two films.
How do we feel about that?
How do we feel about, you know,
where does that lead us?
As I suggested in my setup,
maybe not to the greatest places for the characters
in the previous two films.
I think we're seeing something different here.
There's a little bit of,
there's a bit more confidence in having mediated
your existence through pop culture,
which for many people may not be a choice.
And this may be just how you've grown up.
And so what do you do with that reality?
What I'll say with this movie?
Is Shone Braun has made of it at this point,
mid-August, the best film of 2026.
I'm a little bit dismayed to say that I agree with you.
Even though we haven't had a case
where we've had the same number one film
since the year you joined the show.
And you hadn't even officially joined the show
at that point, I think, 2011,
when we both put the tree alive there.
We'll see if this holds.
We haven't had one other one?
No, nobody.
We had a number two.
We've definitely shared a number two, I think.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm with you at this point.
It's my favorite film of the year by far.
And I am going to try to dig into this a little bit further.
But what you're saying about media
and the way Shone Braun through these films,
what they seem to be expressing,
how their lives are mediated through this imagery
and through pop culture.
Here's what I'm taking from it.
Is that it's seeing yourself reflected.
But the thing is, it's not that simple.
Self is very complicated.
Self, seeing yourself reflected, does it mean
the type of characteristics that you might immediately think of?
It doesn't mean demographic information.
It doesn't mean things you would fill out on a form
or even necessarily behavioral information.
During our I saw the TV glow conversation,
I talked about this liminal space that's created
when you have a character who is seeing themselves caught
in this in-between between the person they are
on this side of the TV
and the person they see themselves as,
they see themselves as on this side of the TV
and there's this space in between,
which you can equate to that transitioning experience
if you want to read it that way.
So that's the seeing yourself.
And I think you can look at,
we're all going to the world's fair similarly.
So, self is complicated,
but it's seeing yourself reflected
and it's through these three films
that you've seen yourself reflected in different forms of media
but also seeing yourself at different points in your life
and at different points in your journey
in terms of your identity.
So of course you're going to have different experiences
with that media, regardless of the media
and how it's different,
you're coming at it very differently
because you're a different person at this point.
So, I've mentioned Lynch,
I always mention Lynch when I talk about Shown Brun's work,
Shown Brun, I'm pretty sure his has been on record saying
Lynch was an influence.
There's often a dream logic to these movies
and I watch them and feel that as well constructed as they are,
the way you put it earlier was great.
I have something similar in my notes.
It's like someone's unconscious thoughts are being created before our eyes.
When I was setting up for you, I saw the TV glow,
I referenced a const notion of free play.
This idea that I think applies even more here, Josh.
He says beautiful art, music, and ideas
offer a kind of cognitive tease.
They dangle the promise of comprehension
but never provide the full satisfaction of getting it.
That's the best description of that that I've ever come across
and I don't think that there's getting camp me asthma.
But I'd argue it's also very straightforward.
And Shown Brun isn't shy about expressing themes
and key ideas directly in the text.
I didn't take French in high school
so I didn't immediately understand
why the slasher was called, what the slasher's called.
It took this scene in the van from the movie within the movie
for me to start to piece together
where I thought the movie was going
before then Chris verbalizes it later.
And then I retrofitted, I'll give myself a little credit,
I retrofitted the slasher's name
without knowing the French aphorism
because it's such an odd name.
And frankly, it just made sense to me this idea of little death,
La Patee Moore, the little death.
This is a movie about a woman coming to terms with her mind and body
and sex and how repressed she has been.
So I'll go back to the cultural connection I suppose, Josh,
and give you a little bit more.
It is about how through this individual lens
it is about how we treat sex
and how distancing or how we like to distance ourselves
from thinking about flesh and fluids,
how we're not prepared to reveal our true selves to others,
especially our desires, especially if our desires are remotely taboo.
I think that's what Shownbrun is exploring here.
That's how it resonated with me.
I'm just thinking about what's going to feel like.
Do you think it's a virginity?
No.
Die.
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I mean, this is a slasher flick that doubles as sex therapy.
That's what's going on here.
I don't know if there's a genre category for that, but that's absolutely what's going on.
And you're right.
It's, you know, little death, the killer in this slasher series is an early signal of that.
I don't think Shonbrun is being coy about this at all.
We have repeated returns to the central sequence from the very first Camp Me Asma film, which is familiar to anyone who's seen a Friday the 13th movie, which is where the young character played by by Billy is having sex with an older boy and the killer comes into the room.
And we see in her eye the reflection of the killer about to strike.
And so this is the key to the whole movie, but we see it multiple times.
And it's, I would say also pretty clear the first time we see it, even though it's cut before the scene ends.
The correlation that Shonbrun is making here between sex and death, right?
I mean, this movie, what we did our preview, I said it was catnip for me because in my horror book, I have a chapter sex and death.
This is a subgenre of horror.
And one of the exciting things about Camp Me Asma for me is how it's moving that conversation forward from, you know, Friday the 13th, even a much better movie like Halloween, even my beloved Nightmare on Owens.
Street, they deal in this puritanical motion of titillate the audience, but then also punish the characters so the audience can be conscience free, right?
At the end. So it's this bizarre messed up.
These are the sort of things that mess people up when they see them too young, which is something Chris actually says in the movie.
What is a movie like Friday the 13th communicating is that sex sex is exciting and bad, right? And you're going to die for it. That's messed up.
And so this is a movie that's moving the conversation forward. I've argued as we did recently for film spotting family members in a bonus episode that something like it follows from about 10 years ago.
Similarly, move that conversation forward in interesting way. Here we have it much more personal though to go to your point about shown runs filmmaking style. This is processing the sort of whether it's repression, whether it's personal hang ups, whether it's societal pressure, whether it's moralizing.
That sex is supposed to be a gift and is a really messed up thing for human beings because of our frailties and all sorts of reasons, right?
And so this is an entirely specific working through of a hang up that you might describe as on perverse in some ways.
How Chris gets to where she gets to at the end of the film, but that's because it's so personally specific at the same time going back to TV glow.
It can be opened up to interpretation for everyone's trying to wrap their mind around what sex means for them, which is also an incredible accomplishment for this movie to be able to open itself up that wide as well.
So yeah, I think I was I was hoping this is where this movie was going to go. And it delivered on that in in so many ways, I think to get into more specifics would reveal spoilers that we probably don't want to do.
So I don't know maybe now can we start talking about how fun the movie is.
Well, I don't know that we need need to necessarily dig into this part any further, but I suppose I at least want to make my case a little more substantially and say that I only have minimal knowledge of shown bronze bio, but having now reviewed three films you pick up on a few things over the years.
And when you look at the progression of these three films, Josh, we're all going to the world's fair. You have a character who is is overwhelmed by a feeling of alienation of confusion of unease.
I believe shown run at that point had not transitioned with I saw the TV glow, which we mentioned I said a movie I read is attempting to reckon with having just transitioned or making that decision shown run had at that point just just gone through that.
Here we are now a few years later. For the first time, perhaps you feel like you you know exactly who you are, but that doesn't mean you're fully equipped for all the experiences that now you're going to have or that you're you're free enough to try things that you haven't tried before or try things that perhaps you were you were deeply uncomfortable with previously.
And are you willing to go to those scary places? How do you how do you get to that? How do you how do you now progress to that? So I'm already thinking about what what shown runs fourth film might be like right as shown runs starts to continue this evolution and it brings me back to I saw the TV glow in the intertextuality here the way these movies connect because in my notes.
I mentioned how the character Owen. This is what I was looting to earlier the different self at different points Owen rewatches the pink opaque.
On streaming the pilot for the first time in years and and it's different than he remembered right because that that character is now different. It's not just that five years have gone by that character has undergone a transformation. And.
Here in this film to remember what what Chris says when she rewatches the camp me as my film for the first time she says I saw it like I had never seen it before and there may be lots of reasons why she sees that way, but.
Part of that is I think you can suggest that she maybe hadn't actually watched that first film since she was a little girl those flashback shots that we see of her watching when she's a little kid right.
She obviously is a little girl who is not out and she is now out as a queer woman watching it through completely different.
So of course she's seeing it a different way so I think you can you can make potentially those parallels to to show runs.
Life as well that's that is at least how I'm how I'm seeing the film.
Now we can transition.
No pun intended into whatever fun stuff you like to talk about because there is so much here.
I mean you mentioned the horror references we've just got a list at least the ones we caught right we've already we've already name checked Halloween for either
13th night Maranel Street. I think you mentioned the shining yes video drone.
A couple of visual video drone touches sure Texas chainsaw mask even dead with all the blood spurting.
Oh my gosh evil dead to that's part of the comedy right it's horror comedy actually in a lot of ways in the in the actual like.
Kill scenes shown run is pushing it towards that direction the comedy direction M night Shyamalan's the visit and yeah sunset all of our shirt let's call it a horror film why not here's the point about all those references though Adam none of them are lazy.
None of them are intrusive they're just living in this movies blood it's almost like they have to be there not that.
Shown run wanted them there or worse the audience expected them there they're they're just embedded in what this movie is obsessing over and trying to wrap its own mind around.
And so while as you know a horror fishing at oh I love them I think the reason I don't roll my eyes at any of them is because they're so intricately interwoven into what the movie is trying to do.
And yeah beyond the references it's it's just.
The moment I don't even know if I want to talk about this because.
It's probably going to be and it sounds like if you're this high in the movie to maybe a joint music moment of the year music moment of the year I don't know how it gets me.
Should we save it well we save it I and I don't know let's just plant a flag and say counting crows counting crows I mean look shown run had me at counting crows once the piano started I didn't even need to see that it's that it's a one that it's one take that everything about that scene how how
meticulously crafted that sequences how how glorious that that is it's it's not only a music moment of the year it's a scene of the year candidate it's it is and it's it's playing on so many levels Josh and maybe you can help me this this gets back to what I was saying about how.
Can't me as much a film that I think is immediately easy to get and at the same time you can watch it ten times and never fully get it because it is a work of of subconscious it is it is a work where you feel like the filmmaker within the film.
Chris and the filmmaker without the film the filmmaker outside the movie is willing to put whatever is is emanating from their mind from their subconscious onto the screen and not overthink that including those some of those references which they don't have to be there not over later they interrogate it and understand exactly where it came from but like so many of us who do view the world through cinema.
People like me who when I hear certain words and phrases I said before I say them in the in the vernacular or in the exact same the exact same way I pronounce it the same way of certain characters that makes exact exact sense to me but here's a sequence tell me if I'm wrong here's a sequence that uses a song.
From 1996 yeah non-diagetically in a movie around your right movie that that by my guess would have been made at least twenty years earlier 15 to 20 years earlier I tried to find this out I think it's supposed to be released in 83
okay so I have the same thought it's 13 to 15 years earlier it's completely an agronistic it is clear to us as audience members that it's non-diogenic meaning Jane shown brun has decided to put place that song over the soundtrack it is not coming from the party that is happening on screen however nor could it nor could it be coming from the original can't be asked my movie that's what I'm saying there's no way because it's an agronistic and it could not be the same thing.
It's actually happening in that party however did you notice what happens at the end of that party scene the last shot I believe is a shot of a radio and I'm waiting for it and sure enough as soon as the radio tips and hits the floor the song stops which is a little tease that perhaps it is diagetic even though we know it's not and it couldn't be playing because it doesn't exist yet so exactly that's those the types of enigmas that you have the myriad of niggas you have in this film.
And it it doesn't matter because it's just such a delight or it might correct but it also might matter to your point on a second viewing in a way you have we have to like dig into yet I don't know if we can tease a show coming up in five months but
our party with these categories seem the year music moment of the year will get back into this because I think we have different feelings about counting grows late December the song along December Josh how dare you put some respect on Adam Dirt's name this that speaks to my point the fact that I get the name I look this up and just just to be totally sure I wanted to know this coming in because I had a feeling you were not an appreciator.
Janshone runs not being ironic.
Janshone runs a fan which makes me like Janshone burns a filmmaker even more.
Yeah we're gonna have a good we're gonna have a good conversation about this in January anyway the fun thing I want to highlight beyond that amazing sequence is the opening credits.
Because incredible to to out to lay out over the credits the entire life cycle of a legacy horror property that is camp me asthma yes with.
All the trinkets and the lore and you know me asthma 3d we see came out so the many of the first few years the drags of those desperate down years when nobody cares about the franchise and then bringing us all the way up to you know Chris the main character coming back to try to revive the franchise just so brilliantly done in terms of setting the context and a ton of fun and I have been listening today to.
Okay and it knew to me so I'm hoping for this right okay kaya who sings a cover of our eums night swimming over this yeah here's a point I want to raise which we've not talked about yet.
We've touched on it yeah in the comments you've made it's it's sort of you know intrinsic to it there is such a deep vulnerability being shared in this movie mm hmm and.
The choice of that song to me sets the stage for this is a song that you know.
Had you know meant a ton to me over the years isn't that fundamentally what that song's about.
I just like to be vulnerable absolutely and so to choose it but you know to choose this okay kaya cover which is one of those covers that is um.
Complets the song for a song that I revere and would never have thought I needed another version of um that just adds to it rather than just using the song itself um and juxtapose it with these fun entertaining elements of camp me as my lore I think it tells us like there's something deeply um personal that's going to be shared in this movie while we're.
Gonna have a ton of fun mm hmm I just that'll that credit sequence is just out of this world I was sure this was going to be one of my favorite films of the year at the end of the credit sequence and then I
The long the long December sequence just cemented it for me so I was it's kind of like one of those instances where you're like oh man.
Just don't screw it up from here no you're right because it is it is just such good storytelling it is here again so specific so clearly made by someone who understands and loves these films and understands
what's problematic about these films and understands why they feel the way they do about these movies or is still trying to investigate why they feel the way they do about these movies
and it's done it's rendered in such an artistic way and to get I didn't count the minutes how long that song is but to get in that three or four minutes fan
the entire arc of the camp me as my series to cover three decades at least and have it all make perfect sense yeah is is really a feat now I don't know if this would get you into trouble Josh but the song I've been listening to nonstop I already have a long
December on shuffle but the song I've been listening to nonstop is is the tune by Andy Schof Satan I've been listening to Satan nonstop what a great song what a great song that is so I want to give you a few
quick hits did you notice who the performer is playing the DJ oh yeah the scene the Eva Vicar so so great so this one might be a bit of a stretch
it's either a stretch or it's completely obvious I don't know but little deaths mask I think in that opening credit sequence the media even refers to him as air vent man
air vent man yeah that's effectively what what he is he's wearing an air vent on his yes on his head so this and and it it makes total sense going back to how you were describing the scene
that we've seen in all these horror films if if a woman it's always a woman a young woman is having sex and usually as is the case here is disassociated and staring off at the ceiling
they're seeing they could be seeing an air vent right so this is the the sex and death connection here so the air vent is what little death is wearing but there are times there at least two times in the movie I also thought shown
run was making and this would make sense if they were was making an explicit connection between the way the air vent looks I don't know how to describe what makes an air vent look like an air
vent but everyone can picture one as I'm talking about it and the lenses of a projector yes how they have right that same
sure you see that a couple times in the film like a very old almost like very old
original yes exactly like original cameras yeah you see that a couple times in the film I loved that connection or at least what I what I thought was was a connection
going back to the personal journey and potentially the personal journey of a filmmaker in Hollywood I of a of a trans filmmaker in Hollywood
whether it's exactly true or not the the touch here because it just seems so true it seems like it has to be true Josh the touch that and I think I think both we have a mention
it but Jillian Anderson and and Hannah I'm bitter here are both fantastic I think I'm there is I don't know if we'll have time in this review we might have to save that to go into how good she is and why yes she as a filmmaker describes
I think she's describing to Billy that the reason she understands that the reason she got picked to do this series is just because it's all about IP and they picked her only because she's queer and so that basically gives the studio
some padding with the media and fans because they're reviving a misogynistic and problematic transphobic series but all they care about is the IP and so if they have if they have a queer filmmaker they can
trot that out there and say well they're they're doing it for us so they're gonna they're gonna set everything right see we know what we're doing and we're being
sensitive to all of that right but after they do that after they bring it back after they revive it they can do whatever they want with it
the money of course is the objective you have to imagine that shown run has been approached offered has been offered something like that and so I I found that very intriguing
Chris is Chris is zoom meeting with the studio is another is something in this film and that's a great performance scene for
I'm going to do it is just like diving right into our artistic delusion and her pitch it's so good did you notice too that that air vent imagery is something that pops up in other places like it billy's house in the background of the
painting all of her paintings all of her paintings it's it's there the last thing I'll mention and I'm not going to say it because it's gonna be a nominee for me for
the funniest moment of the year there is there is a scene where they're watching the original camp me asthma and Hannah being the ultimate film geek
when a shot occurs on screen oh I know where you're going yeah it's funny it's good it's good to to billy exactly what kind of shot it was and I was watching it with Sophie
Oh no I didn't say it out loud which one of you did it which one of you did it so Sophie wasn't familiar with that shot after after she said it and I died laughing because I was thinking it
I I paused it and and Sophie said so what's that and I explained it to her I said so see how this is occurring there on screen
so I was I was imagining the two of you turn to each other and like in a sitcom set it at the same time no no it ended up being a nice teachable
teachable film moment but but I'm thinking it I'm sure lots of film geeks are thinking it and film
geeks could be annoying as hell watching movies and she's annoying as hell watching that movie in that
moment she just cannot help herself and and even better though Josh is it's not just that she says it
it's shown run capturing billy's reaction to her saying it yeah billy's just like you know just
this this face that couldn't be less interested in in her saying that and and knew it was coming too
at this point right so nice nice visual callback to that later in the film too yeah
is there anything else at this point we need to come in this movie there's a tonne there's a tonne
but it sounds like we're both so enthusiastic that it's it's it's gonna come up again and again
I'll just say this about i'm vendor because I I don't want to you know entirely
leave the performances to the wayside it is a performance that grows in complication and
revelation in a lot of ways I guess what I would say is I had no idea and part of this is the script
but it's also in the performance that the character I thought I knew in the first half hour
is who I would come to know by the end and I think i'm vendor is you know absolutely
you know do praise for the way she's able to negotiate that while also while also being quite
funny and a lot of scenes as as we've detailed yeah she doesn't of course it's in the writing too
but I'm with you that there isn't ever a sense of resorting to cliche or going to
caricature of even though I just described a scene that film geeks do the totality of that performance
she's never a character yeah it's totally a character and she's never relying on cliche and it is
it is quite a complex performance teenage sex and death at camp me asthma currently playing in
limited release tell me this judge why would they go why would kids go to a camp called camp me
asthma didn't they look up what me asthma means I looked it up it's not good what I what a great word
for just sort of the filmmaking that Shone Brand does honestly yeah and yeah you wouldn't you
would not catch me at camp me asthma no it's currently playing in limited release if you see it
and agree or disagree with our thoughts you can email us feedback at film spotting.
We may highlight these at the end of the show Josh but a few films worth catching on the big screen
this weekend if you have a chance and if you're a regal unlimited member you just might
get to see them for free including the big release the end of oak street from David Robert Mitchell
we'll talk about that next week on the show seems to be a bit of spectacle to that one that might
lend itself to the big screen but how about wet hot american summer sure we caught that on the theater
recently but being released for its 25th anniversary I wouldn't mind seeing that again with an
audience and this one may be a bit of a surprising choice Josh I shared something about it in the film
spotting slack over the weekend we have pretty much ignored the movie one night only but it's
caused quite a stir it's it's very divisive and divisive means maybe we should be talking about it
so I'm going to consider seeing it this weekend and maybe we should talk about it on a future
episode again regal unlimited gives me the chance to see one night only for free regal unlimited
is the all you could watch movie subscription pass the pays for itself in just two visits if you
sign up using code film spot 26 you get 15% off it's the only truly limitless movie subscription
pass because you can see any standard 2d movie anytime with no blackout dates or restrictions
and you don't just save money on tickets you also save on snacks you get 10% off all non alcoholic
concessions sign up now in the regal app or at the link in our description and don't forget to
use the code film spot 26 to receive your discount let's take a minute to thank the film spotting
family which honestly all of you listening should join right now because you could do so for 20%
off this month we're having a 20% off sale on membership through august 31st you just have to
use the promo code summer and you will get that deal and you can join the film spotting family
which means you can be part of the biggest source of support for the show membership is the
single largest source of support that we have it keeps us doing what we've been doing for over
20 years and this week we want to thank a couple of family members they would be Stephen oh man
tell me Adam this one right that's where I was going all right Stephen Basatia in Millford
Connecticut thank you Stephen and we also want to we also want to thank Stephen sands in coral
springs Florida thank you both well why does Sam pick two guys with the same name I mean
messing with us listeners listeners can't tell that they spell Stephen differently that's not on
the page in front of true Stephen B rights funnily enough the first episode I listened to was Adam
and Josh diverging on the Joker I found the discourse around the film fascinating and appreciated
the way you both navigated the disagreement with humor and openness to differing perspectives it's
good we finally figured out how to do that I live we do that okay I don't know I think we did yeah
I live for the year end reviews it's a great way to get exposed to movies that might have flown
under the radar under my radar same goes for the golden brick award winners and nominees as
an indie filmmaker I love you guys take time to highlight smaller films let's hear from Stephen S
have been listening since the beginning Adam's love of all that jazz one of my all time favorites
kept me coming back at first but the banter in the deep dives always remind me of my days in the
theater department at point park university and the Pittsburgh playhouse discussing film and
performance I enjoy seeing how often I guess what Adams and Josh's top five picks will be
and how they compared it my choices but the one that sticks in my craw is from your top five movie
meals episode eight seventeen how the end grilled cheese sandwich scene between John Favreau and Roy
Choi in chuff in chef was not included is a travesty hmm you see I haven't seen chef have you seen
chef that's that's the thing it's it's tough for that to make our list when neither of us have
seen it yeah I have only caught moments of chef on HBO here and there but I've never I've never
been moved to watch the whole film can I offer a tip as an apology to Stephen S and she seems to be
a connoisseur of of grilled cheese sandwiches as am I what's your tip you do it in the pan right like
everybody does and then when you get the bread just golden crisp sometimes depending on how much
cheese you put in a cheese isn't all all melted through this is why you need a toaster oven
pop that thing in the toaster oven after grilling it for you know 30 seconds a minute
it's going to be nice and gooey inside you still have the crisp on the outside there you go
Stephen us do they do that and chef tell me if they do that probably not Julie a child here I love it
we'll see what tips we get next week movies they credit with becoming cinephiles Stephen B strangely
enough the Stanford prison experiment it just played at the right time when I was in college
and was the right encouragement for me to want to switch my major to film Stephen S says
Cisco and Ebert's recommendation of diva in 1981 the first foreign film I ever saw made me realize
there were more than just genre films to be seen well thank you very much Stephen B and Stephen S
for your support and for listening if you'd like to follow them both on letterboxed you could
follow Stephen B at BISACC Stephen S is at take one the number one sands more information about
joining the film spotting family is available at film spotting family dot com you get access to our
ad free feed you can listen to that on apple or Spotify wherever you get your podcasts you get our
weekly newsletter the family only discord you get exclusive opportunities like being part of our
twenties and thirties madness we're trying to figure out which eight films are going to be in our
super madness next year we do know that at this point but we don't know which film is going to be
crowned champion yet of this tournament we are down to the final four the selection committee
continues to be very good at seeding because the one two three and five seeds have advanced and
in all fairness it was really a toss up between the four and five seeds which one should be four it
was stage coach or city lights and stage coach got beat in this tournament city lights did advance so
we've got we've got four incredible films and a sand pointed out in our newsletter today Josh
that went to film spotting family members to silence to all time silence from the twenties in
Sherlock junior and city lights chaplain and Keaton it makes perfect sense and then from the third
of them still at this point I mean come on and then from the thirties we've got the wizard of
Oz and m it's a great final four can't wait to see how it turns out and we also have August blind
spotting ahead three films that all three of us including producer Sam haven't seen one from
Scorsese one from Vin vendors one from Kiyoshi Kurosawa these are the things you get to decide
as part of the film spotting family you pick the movie we have to watch and talk about
and that will come to you later this month again the promo code is summer and you can sign up at film
spotting family dot com president Reagan you've got us here sir you got the Russians to the table
garbage off came to play but if we fail here there will be war
in wide release this weekend the brink of war this is set during the 1986
recuvic summit between us president Ronald Reagan and Russian president mcale Gorbachev
Jeff Daniels plays Reagan and Jared Harris plays Gorbachev jake j case Simmons and hope Davis are
also in the cast now Adam we weren't quite teens when this took place but that phrase recuvic
summit sounds vaguely familiar certainly we remember Reagan obviously Gorbachev as well
what does the movie have to offer on this 40 year old event and any sense of why now why this story now
there's definitely a sense of why now there's a fair kind of time awareness I don't remember
anything about this event as it was happening in the the present day back in the mid eighties we
were both fairly young at the time I do or I did have a fair bit of backstory and knowledge going
into this movie though because I had watched just like a year ago a documentary about a documentary
just about this summit and I swear to you I tried to find information about this I watched it
as a screener I think or I thought it was a Sundance movie but I can't find it I cannot find the name
of this film I talked about it on the show briefly I thought it was uneven but it was fascinating because
it got in just to the minutia of this film like taking all of the papers everything that have been
transcribed how this whole thing came together so I I had some of the the backstory here going into
watching this movie it's an on the nose peon to good ol boy diplomacy that's nevertheless enjoyable
and worth heating that's the the time awareness that's part of the time awareness at one point
George Schultz who's played by JK Simmons he's the secretary of state to Reagan he and Reagan are
having a conversation I think at this point they've just made what they think is really significant
progress towards arms reduction and Reagan quote something that Margaret Thatcher told him
everything in the world is settled by two lads at a pint and the movie does want to I think put
forth this notion the the writer director Michael Russell gun wants us wants us to consider that
despite our differences and Reagan and Gorbachev as depicted in the movie couldn't have more
divergent world views the writer director wants to suggest that everything could be solved or
certainly the first domino could fall if we could just engage with the dialogue with each other
can't we just get in a room with each other and and have a have a beer and have a conversation
and that that sentiment isn't lost on me as as evident as it may be and as cynical as as I am
there there is some other resonance to Josh I don't know if you've noticed that all of a sudden
the terms communist and socialist are being thrown around again as a threat for the American way
yeah a threat to liberty and I hope actually that everyone who's using those terms and who feels
that way I hope they see this movie and they might because Republicans worship Reagan as you know
and I think this movie does too because here's here's the most antiquated thing about it
one of the or what feels antiquated one of the sticking points in the negotiations and this is true
because I I know this from the documentary is that Reagan kept insisting on bringing up to Gorbachev
Russia's human rights violations and his justification at least here according to this screenplay
and a lot of it was supposedly based off of George Schultz's actual records was he says to Gorbachev
at one point actually two points he says the same thing we are a nation of immigrants
he's emphasizing how America is made up of immigrants and one eighth I think is the number he
uses one eighth of our country has ties to Russia so this is this is important to him that that
Russia doesn't treat its people better that doesn't that the people don't enjoy the freedoms that
Americans enjoy under under a democracy I wonder how that that sentiment would would sit with with
some viewers watching right watching it today it's it's effectively a two-hander it's it's mostly
comprised of conversations between Daniels and and Jared Harris as Gorbachev on on opposite
sides of a table in this cramped room in Reykjavik and of course they're both very capable actors
Daniels he doesn't really go for a Reagan impression I'd say he only slips into the Reagan
accent or the affect that we all know when he says well which is the word we all think of when we
think of doing a Reagan impression he'll say well and it sounds just like that impression otherwise
he just plays Reagan as someone who's extremely calm seems like the definition of a leader he's
always on the offensive he's exceptionally strategically minded Harris is fundamentally decent but
but has this Russian bluster to him and he gets he gets more emotional it it breaks the monotony
with with calls gets us out of that room when they take breaks with calls to Nancy Reagan who's
played by hope Davis she she stayed back in Washington and scenes with Riza Gorbachev who came
with Gorbachev and she's doing some sightseeing and that quickly becomes its own battle between the two
women despite the fact that that Nancy is as I said back at the White House and it it actually does
have a clever payoff the CIA and KGB are down in the basement and that their little fights their
squabbles are meant to be amusing they they aren't really the film as I said I think it it does
really worship Reagan and why I say that is because not only in minutes portrayal but there's a
point early on where he's talking about why they're even there and what the goal of the conversations
are and he's talking about threats of fascism and communism and the music starts to
starts to build behind him Josh and and then he's saying he's he's talking to his his small team
that's there and he says if I wrote this down if we fail if I fail I will be just a war monger
that's the absolute opposite of our goal now that sentiment or that idea may be completely accurate
that's not what I'm taking issue with a lot of the dialogue feels like it was written with the
benefit of hindsight it doesn't it feels like movie dialogue it does not feel like does not feel
like anybody in the room in that room like I would imagine them actually speaking to each other
they're making pronouncements they're making these these declarations to each other it tries to
humanize Reagan by showing him having these nightmares because he he got shot you know the attempted
assassination by Hinkley even though that happened that happened five years earlier yes I can
understand there may be some trauma still of course because of that at one point two
shults is with him in his room and Reagan is changing his shirt
and the camera keeps like it's from shults's point of view focusing on Reagan's
stomach it feels completely random and Josh I think the point is is that shults is noticing
his wounds or something uh but it it happens so quickly they're their flashes it
it's bizarre it's bizarre more than anything else you don't really understand why
why shults is looking at the president's bare bare body or why we as audience members are are being
drawn to look there come to look there either but look if you if you like watching intense situations
where people are trying to use whatever leverage they have against each other and I I do generally
then then this movie will work especially when the entire fate of the world is at stake and
it it does remind us I suppose of a time when diplomacy actually seemed possible and having a leader
who could think strategically seemed possible and having a leader who actually read the binders
seemed possible and someone who acted out of out of thought of legacy and safety for the American people
so that's that's partly why I'm I'm I'm positive enough on the brink of war which is out now
in limited I can understand that actually wide release the brink of war I think I said limited
release if you do get a chance to see that movie I would love to hear your thoughts
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sick edition supply it was my dream sometimes to do what's right we have to be steady
and give up the thing we want the most even our dreams it's time for some pull results a couple of
weeks ago we asked you to choose one and only one spider man movie your options in chronological order
were spider man from 2002 spider man to spider man homecoming spider man into the spider verse
spider man across the spider verse or if you thought we left one of the spider man movies out that
you prefer you could write in other Josh how did it come out i think sam did okay here other
was in last place with four percent then came spider man homecoming the 2017 film with five percent
of the vote a jump up to 11 percent of the vote that went to spider man from 2002 15 percent of the
vote went to spider man across the spider verse and then it came down pretty much to these two in
second place was spider man into the spider verse 32.60 percent how do you say this six zero six
six yeah 32.6 all right i don't get into math this one once the decimals are involved i'm out
first place went to spider man to from 2004 33.3 what's called that percent when we're getting into
decimal points that's that's an indication yes of just how close it was and validation here we
thought that into the spider verse and spider man to would compete for the top spot that's why we
picked them for our movie death match episode couple of Mondays ago and here they are
so close together and Josh the thing is sam just picks that as he's putting these pages together
for us earlier here the day we're recording but the poll hadn't closed so while you were going
to your results i decided to go and see where it stood this minute if any other votes had come in
usually of course nothing has changed because there's enough distance between the candidates here
i am not kidding you i just closed it officially it flipped flopped it did not flip flop
but it is now 33.09% to 33.09% we have a total what are we going to do i don't know has this happened
they both get to be saved they both get to be free of the incinerator yeah i like that yeah it's
it's perfect here's here's Aaron spider man 2 is not only the best spider man movie it is still
the greatest comic book movie ever made there have been a few that came close to topping it but none
quite bested it all right here's Jason i've played by the rules through every film spotting madness
and respect to the rules of the incinerator my vote is for spider man 2 but you will not take
into the spider verse away from me a copy will be hidden away where the film spotting enforcers will
never find it jayce you're lucky here's Henry i would have automatically gone with spider man 2
but hearing josh and adam's conversation actually swayed me back to the first spider man
a movie i must have seen a hundred times since i was five years old so many iconic images and
moments without which we never would have gotten any of these other great films there you go hungry
yeah everyone who voted in that poll and who left a comment the new deeply flawed film spotting
poll is inspired by Jane shone brun and their latest teenage sex and death at camp miasma as we
said it is shone brun's third feature on a really good run so far that got us thinking what other
third features have we gotten this decade how do they compare to shone brun's and i'm going to say
right off the bat that it's it's a really flawed poll because sam just just can't help himself with
options with other we have what eight choices here he never wants to leave people out i get it he's
such a nice guy so that's true let's let's get into him josh what are the choices in sam's defense
i think i know there was some last minute conversation about one of these options i think we kind
of needed all of the ones yeah they all the piece as they all feel pretty good they feel like
there they came about in roughly the same time built their careers the same way and we feel equally
here's what i'd say we felt equally excited about their third feature when it was coming out so
Greta Gerwig's barbie previous to that obviously lady bird and little women are he
esters bow is afraid previous to that hereditary and midsummer bradie corbits the brutalist this is
the one that was added last minute i don't know were we that excited about bradie corbits dex film maybe
some people were maybe they weren't previous to that you may need to be reminded the childhood
of a leader and vox locks Olivia wilds the invite book smart don't worry darling i was probably the
only one very excited about her third feature based on the general reception to don't worry
darling collie jowls no madland before that collie jowl had made songs my brother taught me and the
writer jordan peels note nope obviously proceeded that with get out nuss and robert aggers the northman
before that came the witch and the lighthouse so your choices basically are barbie bow is afraid
the brutalist the invite no madland nope or the northmen indeed those are the choices it is about
the third film it isn't about the promise of the filmmakers it's not about the filmmakers
at all so are you now waiting are you awaiting me to choose Josh out of those films yeah
yeah i have a winner okay i do have i do have a win i don't yet so go ahead you you you share yours first
well my favorite my favorite filmmaker there not my choice obviously is Greta Gerwig because
Greta Gerwig made my two favorite films that are on the list and they are lady bird and little women
but they're not barbie so that's not going to be my choice
Brady i think it's i think it's corbei i'm trying to remember yeah i was trying to remember
what i said it's correct pronunciation Brady corbei is the one that doesn't feel like he completely
belongs because i haven't seen those two previous films i'm going to be totally honest and admit
i haven't even heard of the film the childhood of a leader i i don't think anyone or i'm not
to say anyone that's absurd i wasn't anticipating the brutalist when it when it came out and it
played at the Chicago Film Festival that was the first time i had heard of it so i was definitely not
anticipating it however it is my favorite film on this list before Brady corbei and the brutalist
got added nope was my choice but the brutalist is my favorite film and it's it's not really close so
that's an easy one that's an easy one for me now if you dipped into other territory
i could consider todfield's tar give me movies about temperamental artists apparently and i also
do love in the bedroom and little children but i i'm going i'm going on the list i'm sticking to
the list i'm going the brutalist so for me from the list it comes down to barbie the invite or
nope and i feel like nope i need one more viewing to really get a sense of how it would compete
about those others and i somewhat feel the same with the invite i'm writing very high on that right
now but haven't had a chance to see it again so i think i'm going to go with the movie i know best
and that is barbie barbie's my vote a vote for barbie a vote for the brutalist we would love your vote
we would love to hear an explanation for your vote we might even feature your comments on an
upcoming show and of course there are options for other if you'd like to write them in you could
make the case for todfield's tar instead didn't didn't feel to sam and i supposed all three of us
like they quite fit in with the rest of the gang charlie koffmans i'm thinking of ending things
aliza hitman never rarely sometimes always cajillionaire the third film from maran did july are
their defenders out there for Alex garland's men i don't know wouldn't be i liked my unmindful
did you yeah i just discussed that film i didn't remember us having a strong disagreement about it
i was definitely very mixed on that film maybe i didn't review it with you it's possible i feel like
all of those they just they feel of a different group of filmmakers like is it is todfield's going to
make is his next movie ten years from now per maybe i don't know maybe has something coming out
this fall but it just i feel like the group sam landed on for the most part our filmmakers
who came up around the same time and we're going to be following for a long time as a group so
that feels right to me eight seventy four was the episode that was the episode you debuted the
garland scale so we did discuss men yes together who could ever forget who could forget you can
vote once again and leave a comment at film spotting dot net the link and the poll are right
there on the main page we will share the results in a couple of weeks josh that is our show
if you want to connect with us on social media you can find adam in the show on instagram
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completely off our radar i feel like we're saying this more and more the rivals of amzy
a king this is director andrew paterson is follow up to twenty twenty golden brick nominee the vast
of night such right interesting film and it's got Matthew McConaughey and it's got Kurt Russell
what yeah McConaughey is the title character a beekeeper who reunites with his former foster
daughter it premiered back at the twenty twenty five south by south west our friend Mitchell
boprey says it's a shape shifting soul stirring sonically sumptuous delight that's a lot of s's
well done Mitchell boprey also out is wet hot americ and summer played film spotting fast now it's
being sorry re released on the occasion of its twenty fifth anniversary go enjoy that with an
audience in wide release Nimrod's three friends journey from Kansas City to LA mistakenly believing
their band is opening for green day on new year's eve the one year right yeah something just like
that the wrong girls is also about christian steward and alia shock at our stoner best friends who get caught
up in a case of mistaken identity i think we were all waiting for a stoner comedy from christian steward
i mean alia shock at that's that's a pretty good duo actually this sounds kind of good
the brink of war is out and david robert michael's the end of oak street big week in the film spotting
feed we will close out on sunday our dissident cinema marathon with our awards on monday another
episode of the movie racket with michael phillips a lot of talk of adaptations in the news lately of
course with the odyssey so this show will be all about that the movie laws of book to film adaptations
with david kajanik who adapted he's a screenwriter who adapted three films for luke guadanino
including so spirit on twos day film spotting sv you has the latest from lewis literier the last house
and i'm very eager to see this one now just just based on the cast greddely wagnormora not bad
pretty good pairing on thursday part two of the next picture shows pairing which is
pixars rat a toe and antony bourdain's toney and finally on friday the film spotting mother ship
you'll have a review of toney i can't see it for another couple of weeks yet unfortunately very
very excited to and you plan to share a few thoughts on toney because you have already had the
pleasure of seeing that i've seen it interesting film i'll share more later film spotting is produced by
golden joe toso and sam van hogren without sam and golden joe this show wouldn't go our production
assistant is sofie campanar special thanks to everyone at wbe z shukago more information is
available at wbez dot org for film spotting i'm josh larson and i met him campanar thanks for listening
this conversation conserve no purpose anymore goodbye
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