Candace Owens, Part 1: Charlie Kirk and the Cosmic Conspiracy

Hello and welcome to the Cody DeGrooze podcast for anthropologists and psychologists

listen to the greatest minds of the world has to offer and we try to understand what they're talking about

a meti-brown renowned hand-sikers and with me is Chris Kavanaugh shorter than the average man by

some accounts and he's he's the anthropologist from Japan slash Ireland and

undersized coges from Australia. Welcome Chris. Good day. I'm the platonic

average of male-hidedness. I think five. That's what's on the street. That's what

people are saying on the street. When I go fast to say that's the platonic average. Look

out look how average that man's hide is that's remarkable. Well it's holy being. It's

just like it's pretty average. He's not that great. He's not that bad. I think just average.

It's the general. I just like a tiny bit like it's like just like half a centimeter. A

centimeter less. In Japan. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we're not counting

Japanese. In Vietnam, in Vietnam, I'm actually for these all. It's in these families.

That intro occurred to me because I was browsing Reddit and the discussion. People were talking

about my height. Who am I? They're relaxed. They're talking about me and my pan-psychism.

They're asking where did this come from? Where did this mean come from? I told them. It's

Chris. Chris did this because he's a vindictive and bitter man. Still upset trying to get me

back. For spreading rumors that he was shorter than the average man. It's the actions of

a small, small man. They are psychrists. I believe, well, you've just given away your whole

game and that's why you will feel. But also the reason that you're known as a pan-psychist.

I believe this country have a habit of saying things like, well, but pan-psychism isn't

bad. It's got a lot of merit to things like that. It's my favorite of the crazy philosophics

and stuff like that. That's why. That's why. That's why. That's why. That's why.

I expected better from a color-hosted to color-hosted to color-hosted to gurus, but you know,

I went dispute it. Well, let's see. Chris, in the future, could you insert the relevant

clip right away tonight? Pan-psychism. Something which ends up appealing to a lot of

philosophers, type people. Well, I'm not a pan-psychist. Chris, but my god.

Oh my god. I hear a bit about coming. But you have to admit there is a...

Carry on, carry on. You have to admit there is a logical flow there, right? If you accept

that people are conscious, right? Or whatever that means. We just like it into that. But

you also accept that dogs are to some degree conscious, have some sort of subjective experience,

etc. Then by sort of a process of extension, then where is the natural threshold to draw the

distinction between conscious and non-conscious things if you go from person to dog to goldfish,

to fly, to bacteria, to fixing stones? Where would you draw the boundary?

Well, at least pan-psychism is kind of coherent. It has a simple kind of elegance to it on the face.

I want to get your heart scientifically tested. Then you can play the clips.

I get the... So you know what? We're here today. We're doing the coding. This is the coding episode.

It's not a sub-magical material. It's too last the coding to be recorded in my manga cafe

cubicle. I'm going back to my office after this. So farewell manga cafe cubicle. We barely knew

so if there's any audio discrepancies or whatever that you detect, that's likely because of the

environment I'm in now. Yeah, you won't miss it. I will not miss it. And kind of fitting

much for this somewhat depressing locale, the guru that we're decoding this time is count the

soons. Fair to say, not someone that either you or I were looking forward to cover. I kind of felt

about her the same way I did about covering the ruben. Like I know the general reputation. I've

seen so many clips of them saying stupid things. I know or thought I knew the kind of things that

they like to argue and say. I'm not destroyed. The original surprise in lots of the things that

she's argued for the positions that she holds. But I will say it was more interesting than I

anticipated. That's something I'll say. I'll say more. Let's be going to the coding. But yeah.

I think there's something down the bones here. That's right. That's right. To paraphrase

Sherlock Holmes, it seems like an elementary case, but there was some interesting facets to it,

I think. That I certainly wasn't aware of either. Like you, I don't really really seen clips

and quotes from Candace Owen saying something mad. I will say that having spent some time with her.

Four hours. Four hours. Four hours. What time would choose voluntarily? Some things did come to

like that I was not previously aware of. It should be all right. It should be all right.

Yes. Now she's a conservative comment reader from America. I think many people know her. She

previously worked at Prager U, Tony Point USA, and the Dele Wier and now he has an independent show.

She's kind of done the full gamut almost of right wing media. She was pro Trump. Now she's a

little bit critical of Trump in the Tucker Carlson way. We'll get into that. But I do want to

just start mad. Just to give people, you know, sometimes people look at us mad and they say,

oh, they've got it easy. They just hear having fun, relax, and listening to the chat nonsense.

I just wanted to play a clip from towards the end. I think it's about three and a half hours in.

This illustrates facets of Candace that are not often emphasized. But I just want to point out

that this segment lasted probably about 10 minutes. Okay. So listen to this.

I can't even explain the poll that pulled me to the UK. When I saw him, I don't know if I dreamed it.

I mean, some things are just so metaphysical. We don't understand the world and the way it works.

But I know I knew it was my husband and I was right. So everyone was wrong. I was like, no,

that's obviously my husband. I know like, and the way that I describe how I felt,

and I will be such a hypocrite by the way in the future where my daughter pulls this,

she'll be about to marry. I feel like my daughter someday is going to watch this episode.

I'm like, you and dad fell in love. When you're watching and you're 20, however old you are,

Louise, you're not allowed to me any guy like this. You're not allowed to get married after 18 days.

This only applies for me. I'm going to be a total hypocrite. The only way that I can describe the way

I felt is it felt like a sigh of relief. Like, there he is. Like everything's going to be okay now.

He's there. What's the secret to a successful marriage?

Gosh, the secret to a successful marriage.

I feel in some ways I have been just so blessed by God to have a really easy marriage.

Because I hear everyone watching out the secret is and I think the secret is loving the person

you married. Genuinely enjoying them. Genuinely being fascinated by them.

Wanting to aspire to them. Wanting to know them. Every layer of them and wanting to learn from them.

Having just a deep reverence for the person that you're marrying, like aside from just being

giddy and in love with them. I'm totally obsessed with my husband. I just genuinely am.

And that's the best feeling in the world. I feel like I cheated in life somehow. Like that.

I just got to marry the person of my dreams who wears a suit like James Bond.

Yeah, that probably felt like it went on for quite a while. But I promised the listeners

equals on for much longer. And I don't begrudge somebody enjoying their partner or having

nice married. And not sure I needed to vote that amount of time to hearing someone

works, liberal white, how gold wanted them to meet their partner. But this is something that

Sean Ryan, who is the guy interviewing that really looked at, spent a significant portion of time

talking about. So yeah, just think what you were doing with your time while I,

a me and my were listening to that.

Think of all the productive things you were doing. Yeah, yeah. So it's not all Alex Jones

desk conspiracy theorizing and really quite unpleasant allegations and insinuations against various

characters and personalities. There's a lot of schmaltz in there too. And yeah, as we'll see,

despite being incredibly boring at times, it's fair to say Candace Owens has a fair bit of charisma.

Yes, somewhat shockingly to me, she's endearing as a person the whole of the

in a way. Like if you are not really paying that much attention to the theories and claims that

she's making, she often signs, you know, like kind of very upbeat and unhappy and just investigating

things and so on. She has an infectious way of talking about things. Oh, and related to that.

So we are going to talk about this interview with Sean Ryan, who's one of these ex, you know,

military-turned-podcaster conservative-podcaster-person. He's incredibly annoying throughout this and

will hear that in the interview. But speaking to the things that Candace is good at, there was a very

recent example where she did a like feast of theus confrontational debate with another conservative

chud, a current favorite of Joe Rogan called Andrew Wilson. He's one of these like paleo Christian

people, right? Altair conservative. You've probably seen him in some viral clips, the BADing,

only fans, girls. That's one of his pastimes. But he sat down and had this debate with Candace

Owens about Charlie Kirk's murder. And this is one of Candace Owens specialist subjects. And there

was this exchange that went pretty viral at the end, which I think highlights the difference in their

approaches and also some of Candace's unique abilities. So I've got two clips from the exchange.

They follow on from each other. So here's the first part. There's nothing going on. I just

explained people the difference of why that really matters and shows that he doesn't actually care

about this at all is because aggravated murder. It's narrowly defined. And because he carries a death

sentence, I'm not going to answer the question. I'm just going to recognize that your strategy of

thinking that people are intimidated when you try to put a time constraint doesn't work. And you'll

be better the next time you do this. I got it. I got it. You need the other ones. The more you cut

me off a longer, I'll take. Do you want to just wait for me to finish of why that's a big difference?

So the people don't want to list the charges. I'm going to do that. You just don't get to

pretend there's a time constraint for me to do that. Well, how long does it take you to list seven

charges? I'm speaking. You just got to sound like you're just delaying it because you don't know.

I know all seven of them. I'm going to say again, because like you're going to get embarrassed. You

don't have to rush this. I'm also showing an example of a very flawed debate strategy. I actually

want to know time constraint. I got one. Great. The second charge is the felony discharge of a weapon.

The next two charges are for obstruction of justice. Okay. The next two charges are for

witness tampering and the final specific charges though. That is them obstruction of justice,

obstruction of justice, witness tampering, witness tampering. Okay. There's no other specifics to

them. Well, I can tell you why he's being charged just the charges and then seven. See if the bad

thing is when you try to be an A hole and it doesn't work. What's the seventh? The last charge is

violence in front of a minor. Okay. Got it. So then he's being charged with murder. You just say

aggravated. That's the distinction. You just want to. It's a massive. You can't even you cannot say

murder versus aggravated. This gets to the entire crux of why him being up for the death sentence.

And I actually find the defense is filing about why this is not aggravated to be very compelling

of why it's not aggravated. I actually think that the state was going to even try to pull this off.

They should have charged him with just murder. And then I do also again want to stress to audiences

that debate strategy of thinking that you have to speak faster or somebody puts your hand up and

they try to pretend I get some sport. I think it thinks it's a blood sport. It's not. It's about

being right and being principled when you're engaging. And you can make mistakes. I make mistakes

all the time. But at least be genuine in pretending that you care about this case enough to know

one of the seven charges that are up against Tyler Robinson when you say the evidence is overwhelming

that he's guilty. If you would like to move to final statements, I'm fine.

Yes. So this is Andrew Wilson. One of the things he does, right, like tries to catch people

and gotchers around definitions or you don't know this specific fact, right? And he ill-advisedly

assumed that she wouldn't be able to list the seven charges because he wasn't

he able to list one of them. And then she did know the charges and she knew details about the case.

So I think that is an illustration of one of her abilities is that she she can whip-iped

these details quite readily. Yeah, yeah. And so she's very self-possessed. It doesn't get flustered,

speaks very well, very eloquently and projects a good vibe, right? Like if you just forget about,

forget everything you know about her. Which people believe like that. In situations like that,

she does well. And I think you'll find deeps of other material and what we'll cover where,

yeah, I was quite impressed. I didn't expect to see that. It's impressive in the way like a

creationist who has memorized a huge amount of details about, you know, evolutionary studies and

fossil records and stuff and can throw them all right. Is he able to regurgitate it on the bar?

That's right. Like it may well all be, as we'll see with her conspiracy theories.

Much of it is found that on lies and delusions, but she's got it all at hand. She can speak about

it very eloquently. She won't get confused or whatever and it comes across. The delivery is what

I'm referring to. She's very good at it. Exactly. Exactly. And Matt just, you know, like Andrew Wilson

got kind of owned there, but because he's an arrogant prick, he actually attempted to dig

himself out in the force possible way. And I just want to play it to you because it gives her such a

win like the world, but you know, in the interview where she didn't come across as well and so on.

You know, when you're promoting conspiracies, that's going to happen. But just listen to what he

gifted to her and that exchange. Now, I did notice something. I just was curious about

if I'm just wondering when you pulled out your phone just before you asked that question.

Did somebody write a chance to actually that question? You can check my phone.

I'm just curious. No, you can absolutely not. I have not had one communication.

Okay. The single person, not even my producers who are in there this whole time we were here.

You want to check my phone? I'm happy to do it because you're just going to get double embarrassed.

Where's my phone? You want to see it? I'm just curious. You can literally do that. Here you go.

PVD. You're the moderator. Take it. Let's see if anyone was texted at all during this debate.

All right. The about the violent charges or anything.

I'm looking through this. You give me permission. You have full permission to go through my phone.

I don't need to cheat. So the last one has nothing to do with it. It's just a compliment.

I haven't even read my text. That's a compliment. He's reading them.

You're okay. You'll give me permission. I'm just going to read through you. You'll see 1132

because after that, I don't need to read it. Any other text could have been telegram.

I have a signal. You can check that too. I only have signal. Telegram. I used in Russia.

That was a doubt. I'll take your word for it. I don't need to like, I deeply care about this case.

I don't need to pretend to know. I know. I know you're experiencing conflicting emotions while

you're enjoying that because on one hand, deeply satisfying to see this arrogant prick being owned.

Yeah. Also, I guess someone's been the one to do it. Yeah.

I know. This is also the kind of debating and the infighting. I mean, you could probably bring

up the names better than I can, but even her main conspiracy theory at the moment,

which is about Charlie Kirk and Tony Point and Charlie Kirk's wife. But also other stuff that she's

on. It does reflect a lot of the internal divisions and fractures within this ultra conservative

movement on the United States. They're their affections and they sort of hate each other to

a large degree. So the left is also famously fractures. So it's kind of satisfying to know that

they've got that too. And actually, she's being sued by previous guests of the podcast that she's on

for comments that you made after his appearance on the podcast. Never said one word about him.

Or the security apparatus because I knew them. And my mind just wasn't there at all until

he did your interview. And it was so disastrous in my view. And I think also the view of all the

people who watched it according to the comments, there was just something off about it. And I went,

whoa, he's answering questions weird. The stuff that he's saying doesn't really make sense.

But that's their argument they're trying to make because they're trying to get the court to see

him as a private figure who only had to come out and do the Sean Ryan show.

One of the biggest podcasts in the world defend himself against me. And I'm like, well,

that's going to be a tricky argument considering I never spoke about you ever on my show until you

did the shot. What is what is exactly he's what it's crazy. What is he sewing you for?

Defamation, which is difficult for me to comprehend because it's so in the category of opinion.

Like the first three pages of a lawsuit, he's just kind of calling me an anti-Semite. And I

don't know what that has to do with the lawsuit at all. He's not Jewish. Last I checked. Neither

was Charlie Kirk. So that's an example of like how these things are very fructious, right? And

a lot of it, a lot of it as we've seen runs on interpersonal relationships. So this is from the

very start of the podcast, for example. Candace Owens, welcome to the show. I'm so excited

to do this. You and me both. You've done everybody but me. Well, that doesn't sound good.

Right. I've been just like being completely left out. Well,

dude, I've been nervous to meet you. Really? Fuck yeah, I'm nervous to meet you. I feel like I'm

not going to get on your bad side. Me? Me? Little old me? Sounds like there's some rumors out there

about me. I got to clear up. I'm so nice. I'm so friendly. You know, well, being our mutual

friend, Dana, got a lot of conversations. I was like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't want to

wind up on a bad side. The show is spoke fairly highly of you. So it's interesting to think about

that. Like what people think about you before they meet you because obviously as you know,

there's always going to be like the the caricature. You know what I mean? And so we obviously have

to rely on, I don't know, articles, what you hear, what's happening. And I guess there's always

that moment where you're like, I wonder if it meets what I think I know about her. It didn't.

It didn't. Way better. Obviously. So yeah, I was, uh, I don't believe we had dinner that night.

Yeah, it was such a great dinner. I mean, your wife's amazing and your story's amazing and I was

always keen to your show. Yeah, very familiar dynamic. And later on, there are more discussions too

about, um, well, just an emphasis on, you know, I'm a nice person. Yes, I'm involved in all of these,

you know, bitter, vicious, online things. But actually when you meet me, I'm really nice and,

you know, the other person will agree, yes, I we had dinner and you're, you're incredibly nice.

Isn't it crazy that some, there should be such vitriol floating around out there.

Yeah, and the interpersonal always comes for as the most important, right? It can almost like,

in this case, this guy shown Ryan, who I really, it's like, I, I find him and his like very

predictable right wing clustering will hear his conspiracy, Maul Green as, as well. To me, in

the certain sense, it's more deportable than Candace always because at least she is, you know,

full, frothedly, an open conspiracy theorist where Sean Ryan, you know, he is completely on board

with a whole bunch of stuff, but he, he presents it as, you know, he's just asking questions and,

you know, talking to the guests and one of the things is that he had on Charlie Kirk's security guard

previously. And like I said, Candace always covered it and made a bunch of accusations of the

security guard is, is serving her, but they talk about him not pushing the guy enough and not

that they're like, fierce, the fierce. You can hear her give him a pass for that. So listen to this.

So it seemed like even when he was on the show, he was focused on PR, but he just wasn't very

convincing. And that's literally in the lawsuit that I described him as not very convincing. And

that's the family. That's the family. And I stand by it. He wasn't very convincing. Yeah,

I probably should have pressed him more. I just, I fucking felt bad though. I mean, it was still

really fresh and the guys tearing, I just, I wouldn't, I've been around a lot of loss. You know,

in my previous career, so I didn't want to, I wanted to be respectful. You know what I mean, but

yeah, I think you did the right thing actually because even though the viewers might feel frustration,

the reality is is that if you had put him under the light, so to speak, he would have clammed up.

And we benefited a lot from him just speaking. So there you go. You know, it's fine.

You didn't grill him. No, you've got me here, right? So we can, we can look over that. I feel like

if she wasn't here, but she might have harsher comments on it. But yeah, so the interpersonal

friendliness, it can cover a lot. Yes, but it's not all friendly. So that was telecurcs out of

security, right? Yes. So she's got it in for him. As we'll get it to, she's certainly got it in

for Charlie Kirk. Ericka Kirk. Ericka is her name, Ericka Kirk. But you know, also many other

futes, right? So turning point generally Ben Shapiro and the Daily Wipe, that's right. So she also,

people might remember Bridget McCron, wife of Daniel McCron, that's a pretty intense kind of

thing. And also with Laura Luma, another wingnut, not case. So these are all these far right

personalities, including Nick Fuentes and Tucker Carlson and so on, that are sort of orbiting

around the, the star that is Donald J Trump. And I don't know, it's like a feudal court, right?

They're all intriguing against each other and stabbing each other in the back. That's the dynamic

of she was going on. Yes. And like one of the things she goes through all these various controversies

she's been involved in, some of them, perhaps not her fault, like receiving racist abuse when she

was at high school, I think, and but it becoming a big and new story that was covered. And then

developing a website that was basically an attempt to dox or at least to make people online,

find difficult these gathering employment if they were critical of people because she received

criticism online and so on. And she got all these complaints from the left and right, she ended

up involved with Zoe Quinn from Gamer, get a few things with her. And when she got criticized by her

and also targeted by some people online, which may or may not she believes were like organized by

Zoe Quinn, but this is part of what turns her to the right. That was my real and the situation.

And so she was being protected and I never really, I mean, I'm just not a gamer. I just didn't know

what the only people that actually gave me a fair shake in the media who I spoke to was Braveheart,

which was crazy because I thought they were like the white supremacist, you know, my Connecticut

democratic surroundings, blue liberal-ish mind. I was really ready to speak to them and then they

wrote the truth about what I had said. So I was kind of like, what the heck is going on? Why is up

down and down up and at this time, at the same time, Trump was running. And so I was kind of

questioning my allegiance to leftist media, so to speak, because of how I was treated and I

didn't really comprehend when I just told them the truth about this random check.

But in those cases, it's very much that she's constantly, you know, the center of drama or

there's something going on. She has various issues. Actually, I've got a clip that like,

highlights it. Just before you play, Chris, just confirm something. Because it's something you

told me I didn't know about. So when she started her career as some kind of public figure, she was

kind of left-aligned. She was progressive coded for one of the better phrases, is that correct?

Yes. So she had a degree 180 website, which was anti-conservative in nature. And then the website

that she proposed, social autopsy, was kind of like a council culture. We have said it was like

that you would galler up material that people have posted online, attach their, you know, real name

and I then defined the information to them and make it searchable by employers or other people

online. She regarded it as like a kind of accountability thing, but it was framed as like a plan

doxing site, right? And she received criticism from left wing activists who said, you know, you

can't do that because people need anonymity. And she received some criticism from right wing

sources as well, but it was stronger from the left. And this like her Kickstarter campaign was

suspended. And she regarded it as likely to be primarily progressives that did that. Then she had

a YouTube channel that was called Red Pill Black and went into the Tony Point USA and all the

different things that we talked about. So but she started off as yeah, left-aligned. Though in

this interview, she describes it as like not being very deep, just being the kind of general

position that people would take without looking strongly at the things, but that's kind of

self-sovereign because no, she wants to identify as like, you know, really in her heart. She was a

lifelong conservative. And I was liberal like in the way that you don't know anything and it just

kind of sounds better even. Are you liberal? I'm a liberal. I'm a liberal. What do you mean?

And I think at eight times. What do you mean? What do you mean? Before you have bills,

life is so it's so easy to be like idealistic when you don't have to pay bills and you don't

really comprehend the issues. Then you lean into the emotional issues and like live and let live.

You love these like stupid bumper sticker expressions. You see it all so nice. It fits your like

AIM profile, you know, let me find a quotation to put on my going away message on AIM,

you know, like the youth you're liberal when you're young. There's that expression,

I gosh, who says the expression that if you're not a liberal when you're young, you don't have a

heart. If you're not a conservative when you die, you don't have a brain. Then you suddenly

you're paying taxes and you're like, Hey, where's this money going? Why am I working so hard?

Where's and then you, you know, your your philosophy changes a bit as you get older, but I never

was politically inclined. So I never voted Democrat. I was just I would have very much described

myself as a liberal. And if you had asked me any topic, I would have been I would have been

across the Democratic party line if I was actually voting, but I wasn't.

Yeah. Yeah. So just noting the striking libelity there, you know, how much she's moved around.

It's all this kind of thing we sometimes see in Algorithms. And I got to mention Ann Aperborn

who notices the same kind of thing amongst the upper atchicks, you'd call them this kind of new wave

of upper atchicks in Eastern Europe that are attaching themselves to like authoritarian right wing

movements there, but who previously when when the zeitgeist was, you know, communist, they're

like either the same people or the same kind of people who would be aligning themselves with that

essentially self-interested careerists. And I think that's a dynamic that dovetails pretty

nicely with our with our podcast and gurus right who yes, they have they have their stances,

they have their labels at the time they believe them wholeheartedly, but underneath that somehow

is this you know, very deep on the current of pure self interest, self promotion.

Yes. And I think it can also be linked to like there is the opportunistic political aspect of it

of like trying to appeal to whoever they think can you know leverage additional power or attention

to them, but I think in all our aspect of it is very very much individual focused, right? That like

they see the world for their grievances and issues that have been fallen them and it's a bit like

the wine stands, you know, we have it in the grievance wandering for a reason that you view

all of the things as related to you and it the world is you know, you know, conspiring against you

or conspiring to meet events happen to you like you know, she even described me in her husband

as the universe wanted that happen and I think that is the way a lot of our gurus think about things.

So this is our math, acknowledging at least a part of the pattern from bit later in the

interior, which you got to college after I went to the University of Rhode Island. That incident

in high school happened when it was in my senior year, so it kind of threw my entire senior year

into chaos and I'm lucky I even applied to college. I almost didn't even apply because it was so

crazy and the URI was like close enough. I just applied to URI, got in, went there.

Would you want to study? English and journalism. I have a double major in English and journalism,

so I think it's quite fitting. Yeah. Where do we go from there? Where do I go from there?

So actually the story is I had I finished my degree later because Sally may had a huge collapse

and didn't give me my loan from my senior year of college. I have senior year issues. I've realized

she's got some senior year issues. So you know, there were issues, right? And part of this interview,

significant portions of our just going through her life story, right? But we will see,

there's a massive dose of it that goes into conspiratorial stuff, but there were some, I think,

interesting aspects around gurus stuff. So one is, I think it's just notable. So many of our gurus,

whenever they're telling their stories about their lives, it's always like I had these difficulties

with my PhD, right? Like people weren't allowing me to attend courses or you know, I had this

feud with my professor and so on. And of course, like this happens, right? You know, people have events

in their life, but it's just notable that the gurus seem to be particularly unfortunate. They just

meet with a lot of things where the world is conspiring against them or you know, they're

unfortunately on the receiving end of unfair treatment. So can this one notes that? And the other

flip side of it is every time that she describes how she performed in a given role. It is always

extremely self-aggrandizing, right? So after she finishes college, what does she go to do?

Or she doesn't graduate from college, I mean, she takes a break and then does something goes back,

but in any case, what happens? And you need to make some money and get out of debt. And so I was like,

if I get my foot in the door anywhere, I can sell myself. I can like, I can learn anything. I'm a

really hard worker. And my second interview at a private equity firm, I saw that like they pay

their assistance really well. These private equity guys. And so my second interview at a private

equity firm, I got hired to be a second assistant and hired on a spot, which was fantastic. And then I

stayed with that company for four years. And when I left, I was like the vice president of the

administration. Wow. They were fantastic to me. I was treated really well. And I got to travel the

world because it was one of those jobs where I had to do everything. Everything. I mean, is wife.

Did you just say you went from second assistant to VP of the entire company in four years?

VP of the administration. It was a small company. So I don't want to make it. It wasn't like, there

was like a thousand employees. It was like a almost like a family style trade desk, a true private

equity structure. I mean, maybe eighteen employees, which was nice. It's actually as part of the reason

why I like the idea of a small team because I saw it work. Yeah. So it's curious, isn't it? So, yeah,

vice president of administration. And I didn't know, like I know the companies have presidents,

vice presidents like big corporations. But you know, small companies with like 18, 20 people,

do they have presidents and vice presidents? But then she clarifies, she's, what is the deputy

vice president or something of administration? So there's 18 person company has an administration

department, which has a president and a vice president. So yeah, me. So that all look, that all

may be perfectly true. Or she is someone that chooses labels for the purpose of being self-aggrandizing

and is puffing up that little story of going from second assistant to vice president of administration

in a small family investment phone. Yeah. And similarly, Justin Allorin, it's her format. So she

mentioned, you know, she got the travel award with us and she talks about the various adventures she

had. Is she also mentions this? They also even put me through, I went down to learn Spanish.

I moved to Costa Rica before was it a eight week program? And you live with a family that doesn't

speak any English because he had a wife that was Spanish speaking. And so she hired a lot of

Spanish staff. And I was like, well, I got to learn the language. I can't manage the staff. I don't

know the language. And so because they traveled, you know, everyone goes to Montauk or the Hamptons

for the summer. I was like, I just, I found a program. Can you pay for me to go down there? I'll

learn Spanish. And so I did that. You speak Spanish. Yeah. Well, I'm now really, really rusty. But I

did. I was fluent in Spanish. And I can understand Spanish though. So, you know, again, there's always

like this double thing because they're she didn't say specifically she mastered Spanish. She needed

like she said, you know, I was fluent in Spanish. But the implication is always like, I went here.

I'm faster than so. You did a eight week course and you became fluent in the language. And I'm

sure of your eyes. You would say, well, you know, I practiced it after that and whatever. But it's

it's kind of always the implication is something very special about her, right? Yeah, the implication

is that she's amazing. And yeah, this is something that we've seen in so many of our other

gurus, even with respect to languages, it seems to be a thing. Not only taught you, IQ, but also

this this ability to just pick up lots of languages very quickly. We've heard that before.

Yeah, that's right. Eric does a lot of Indonesian and a couple of other languages and Gary.

Yeah, I agree. Just for two completely different figures, right? And she went to work for a

vogue, by the way, for a little bit as an intern. And that's another example that you know, she was

kind of in these left-coded species, right? And listen to how she describes her role there.

You're really surprised to learn about that. She did pretty well. This is you well.

That was my glamorous idea with that I was going to go move to New York City. And I don't know,

be Carrie Bradshaw from Sex and the City. I don't know what my idea was. It was good.

When Red just specked a little bit cartoonish. And then when I got there, I just

culturally was like, yeah, I don't even do this. You know, this is not where I want to work. The girls

were so vicious, so hungry, so you know. And but I learned a lot. I mean, they would have fond memories

at me. It works my butt off. And that was why I kind of graduated up to the magazines and

was the head of the intern closet, so to speak, at Vogue and made great friends. So I've kind of,

I've been a lot of places really when I think about it. See that.

And so again, she rockered it to be a sort of a slightly nebulous and vague title.

Head of the intern closet was nothing but- Head of the intern closet.

And then that's what it could be reaching there a little bit. And they're all vicious.

They're all caddy vicious. But they would love her. They're also

curious. And I don't have great memories of her. She made some great friends. So yeah, it's

this is the shade you get from Somorly anecdotes, which is what a pure spirit.

And what a talented woman can't have someone's is. And if you don't, actually, you know,

if you're not skeptical, cynical, sons of bitches like you and me Chris, and you just listen to

her talk, she is charming, like absolutely charming, like the way she talks about these things,

it sort of has the impression of being good, humid and self-effacing and light. And like she

gives- Reasonable. Yeah, reasonable. And she gives really good vibes as long as you

don't think about anything. Yeah, I'm speaking of which, my- listen to the way she introduces herself

along those lines. Candace Owens, your political commentator, author and independent journalist

known for challenging mainstream narratives and tackling controversial issues.

Over the past decade, you've become one of the most influential voices in all of media,

building a massive audience through your commentary and investigative reporting.

Today, through your independent platform, you continue to cover politics, culture,

and current events while questioning official narratives and sparking national debate.

And most importantly, you're a Catholic. Most importantly, I'm a Catholic, a mother, a wife.

That's right. Yeah, yeah. So I forgot your minds at

the introduction also, just, you know, your controversial trend setter.

Yeah, the usual puffery. And if you look, you know, like so that kind of thing,

you know, but first of all, I'm a mother, I'm a real wife, I'm a Christian.

You remember Rail Robbins, classic one of that, which is like-

No, just a simple home spam, you know, self-help, multi-guineering.

That's right. That's right.

Now, and if you look at the comments underneath this particular YouTube video,

and I'm sure it's the same or not the rest of hers, oh my god, does this shit work?

They love her, like basically the impression that I've been talking about there,

that is eaten up with the spoon by the audience who are definitely responding to that thing

that is being projected, especially to obviously a conservative audience.

All that stuff is conservative. I mean, it works across the board, especially in America,

but particularly for conservative audiences.

Yes, and the host that she's talking to does a good job, you know,

you're hard to out the way that he freams things, but he also freams the criticism

that she receives, you know, like a bunch of things, you know, for example,

she suggested that Hitler wouldn't be a problem.

If he just kept himself concerned with life, you know, internal,

jury treatment in Germany.

If Hitler just wanted to make Germany great and have things run well, okay, fine.

The problem is, is that he wanted, he had dreams outside of Germany.

He wanted to globalize, he wanted everybody to be German, everybody to be speaking German,

everybody to look at different way. That's not to me, that's not nationalism.

Right? You see it over there. I mean, just restrain themselves to, you know,

Holocausting the Jewish population in Germany. It wouldn't have been a real

a major issue. But no, no Chris, she brings issues,

sparks national debate on important issues, such as whether or not,

and whether or not, Bridget McRodne is in fact a man. This is a debate that America needs to have.

Yes, that's quite right. That's quite right. But then, so this is another familiar

or response to receiving criticism. Just say context.

And so a point arrived where, and then Rachel Speck, it's interesting,

somebody had pulled an old tape of me and presented it out of context of me and Charlie and London,

where we were asked a question about nationalism. They stripped the question and they made it,

well, like I was on stage preaching about Hitler, like, and saying, if Hitler just wanted to be in

Germany, that'd be great. But what I was saying was, I don't, they said, doesn't nationalism feel

like a dirty word? Like how can you say you're a nationalist? And I was like, Hitler wasn't a

nationalist. You know, Hitler was like, Hey, I'm just want to be in Germany and make America great.

Like that wouldn't be problematic. He was a globalist. He had global aspirations, long story short,

they made this video, go viral out of nowhere. And I always now go back to that and I wonder who did

that. And suddenly, like a Jewish group issued a thing saying that I was like anti-Semitic. It was

so crazy. And donors were calling him, telling him that like he needed to pull back away from me.

So funny to think that this was another Zionist scandal. And at the same, and I was so shocked at

this time because I had, I mean, I just grew up in a very Jewish, I had never been accused of being

in anti-Semi. And I you were, this was ways before. Oh my gosh, before I mean, like, and I was like

genuinely hurt. And the way that the Sikafanthe interviewers frame criticism. Candace, you faced

intense public criticism, particularly, particularly accusations of disloyalty to the Black community

and the Christian community for holding independent views. How do you maintain your composure and stay

grounded in who you are when those attacks get personal? You know, I don't know, but I pay too

much attention to the criticism that's lobbed at me anymore, only because it's constant. And if you,

if I spent every day worried about what people, other people were thinking about me or allowing

them to define who I am, I wouldn't get a bed. And I've got four toddlers at home. So I just shut

that entire part of my life off. And people are very surprised by that, but it truly doesn't impact

me. I know who I am. So I don't have to go to the internet to learn about who I am.

You legit, it doesn't bother you at all. No, it genuinely doesn't bother me at all.

I believe that. Yeah, I believe that too. I believe that too. So because she is incredibly

confident, everything she says is with complete confidence. And I can't imagine her getting rattled

and stuff because there is that special power in being so incredibly bullheaded or something.

Oh yeah. Yeah. And it doesn't mean she doesn't react to criticism. Like she

definitely does react to criticism right by it's just that she's absolutely certain. Whatever

position she's taken is correct. And whatever criticism she's receiving is unfair. That's like her,

her north star, right, is that she's always right, which is a common thing. So you know, like Brett

Weinstein and Joe Rogan and Barry Seller also picked this pose where like, how do you respond to

criticism? Oh, I don't look at it or it's, you know, it's all nonsense. Anyway, I know it's not,

none of it is true. So I can just ignore it because I know none of it applies. And that's one

of the superpowers of Gurdam is that you have no doubt that you're absolutely correct. And she

recently, you know, had been shooting with Trump. And here's how she frames that.

Yeah. Yeah. It was that was definitely a moment where I was going, this is, this is a,

some strange enemies to have. Did you find humor in it?

A genuinely at the time, I was, there was just so much going on. I was in Italy and my phone started

blowing up. And I was so excited about the eve of my confirmation that I and I had just had

this wonderful dinner with them, my priest. And I had a meeting with the Cardinal about the

confirmation that I just turned my phone off because I didn't want to even let in whatever energy

that was. As nope, you're not ruining my day. And I was like, I felt like I was like on the eve of

my wedding or something. And there was, there was too much spiritual goodness that was surrounding me,

I guess, as a best way to put it. We had planned that trip for a very long time for me to go to

Leigh and get confirmed. And I just wasn't going to allow that to be a memory. And so I just was

like, I'll deal with that when I get back. And such a strange thing to be in a place where you're

putting the present I'd say it's on hold. Everyone's, I guess, was waiting for a response. And I was like,

I don't have time for this, Jen. That was it. It was, I don't have time for this.

Yeah, so I think it was about this part in the interview where I started to develop a certain kind

of wary respect for Candace Owens. Like I realized that she's not, she's very good at what she's

doing, right? Because this is a potentially problematic thing, right? As I said, Donald Trump

is the center around which all of these guardflies orbit. And, you know, he said his usual

horrible things about someone that gets on the wrong side of him as she did. But the way she frames

the story in the tone of voice in which she describes her reaction. Like if you just read it on

the surface, it comes across absolutely great, right? She's focusing on what's important, right?

She's going to get confirmed, religion, the priest to family. And, you know, the internet's crazy,

isn't it? And all of this political stuff, it's all, it's all nuts. You know, there's going to be

horrible people out there saying, hold, just turn your phone off. And think about your toddlers

grand yourself. And like if you just present incredibly well, no matter what the topic is. And

that's game. It's very clever. Yeah, I will say that that kind of she drops a little bit,

as her conspiracies come more to the fore. But certainly when she's presenting herself

as the victim, facing, you know, unfair attacks and smears from powerful people, it's, it is a very

effective pose that she strikes. And so many of them are so many of them joining the Catholic

brethren or the, you know, whatever, particular branch of Christianity that they've decided to come

to. So she is getting confirmed. And it's just the religious shield. It's a very useful thing to

invoke in conservative circles. It sure is. No, as you say, that pose of just being sweetness

and light and wholesomeness, it does conflict with her main job, which is, which is

scourulous accusations and conspiracy. There is a character assassinations of people and just

inciting feuds. So as you say, that pose does get a little bit thin when she actually gets into

the sorts of claims that she's making. Yes, yes. And we will move to those very shortly. But I

did notice, Matt, an old enemy that haunts the curses. It's, it's like their kryptonite. It travels

around their ecosystems, causing them harm and counter soons was afflicted by that villain.

Taxic world, Matt. Taxic world. It's okay. If you're a progressive, if you're a progressive in

America, your greatest hope at the moment is that toxic mole is going to take out the entire

political opposition in that country because they've all got it. She's a toxic mole hipster. She's

claiming she suffered from toxic mole like before was, you know, a popular thing. So anyway,

listen, listen to this. That photo was real. I shared it early on in politics to talk about, I

went through a really tough time when, what was it, 2015? I got sick from old illness. And I never

thought I was going to be the same person. It was a leak and HVAC leak that happened in my building.

And it destroyed my insides. I mean, it started what's known as candidiosis growth. In my body,

I had, I mean, overnight, my whole, I felt like my whole life was taken for me. I couldn't think.

And if you don't know what toxic mold illness is, it's almost impossible to describe. But I had head

to toe overnight, eczema. I had never had eczema. Athletes foot. My eyes were red and just kept

pussing. And I didn't know what it was. I didn't know what was happening. Why it was happening.

My hair fell out. And in the scheme of everything that was going on, I, the worst part of it,

forgetting the physical and not recognizing yourself in the mirror. Because I mean, I could share

worst photos. And he shared, I was like, if you want them all, this is actually, look, I look

pretty good relative to what was going on. I had to toe. But the worst part was my brain. The only

way to describe it is you can't think. You can't, it's almost like being in a permanent, if you

ever have like brain fog, imagine like the most intense brain fog you could ever have. And it just

physically exhausted me. So I was just in bed all day, every day. And the only way to beat back

that sort of mold illness, I mean, they can give you temporary pills, whatever. It's through diet,

like the most regimented diet because sugar is what feeds it. And so I, it took me a year to,

and I never thought I was going to be able to be myself again. And that was the hardest part

is not being able to think. Does, does, does, just sugar really feed a toxic

bald infection? Well, my, yes, the regimented diets. Who would have thought that a conservative

would promote that they were afflicted by toxic world? And they resolved it by going on a restrictive

diet? That is, I mean, it's a high cheeking off with that. I've no idea. So they go,

my toxic world, the, like you said, the last hope of liberalism. I mean, I assume that at

least some of this is grounded in some kind of actual events that happen. Come on, she had an illness

probably. It's unlikely that it's specifically due to mold. Apparently the thing with that Chris is

that, you know, there's some grants to it. She got into a legal case with her landlord, didn't pay rent

for a time being and sued the landlord. And there was a counterclaim about the air conditioning

being broken or whatever. So she did lose all of those proceedings. And in the end, she had to pay

about $21,000 in background plus plus legal fees for the legal case. So it did it. The claims

didn't work out that bad. Alicia has said she was a hebastura in the mold concert. So there you go.

You know, yeah, I mean, it's not clear to what degree the claims of the mold illness might have

played a role in attempting to win the court case, but whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's that's

the kind of thing they do. Well, any can go risk talk about their health. You cannot trust their

account. Like it. No. And she's talking there about Trump sharing a photo where she's like, bad.

Just to complete the picture. Yeah. I think that I think this is all part of that

self-neuration about one's own story, you know, overcoming the adversities. And, you know, like

everyone's had about to build this. Sometimes quite serious. I think that either them or their

family, I could regale the audience of the code of the curries with various little scares and things

that have happened that at the time, I wouldn't have said that we're little, right? But that propensity to

take those incidents and weave them into this self-serving kind of narrative, which they tend to do.

Yeah. I think that's another interesting aspect of it. A lot of it is about crafting

a persona, self-presentation to your audience about the kind of person you're without actually

coming on saying, hey, by the way, I'm an absolutely fantastic person that is so good. I mean,

they may say that, but it works better if you talk in a more natural way about the ways in which

you've been wronged and also the trials and tribulations that you've overcome.

Well, let's play a clip of Kanda since she does that. So here we go. You seem fearless.

I, we're all here for a blip. And I think it's not about not having any fears about what scares me more.

Right. What scares me more is considering the world that our children will inherit if we stay quiet

because we feel it right now. We feel the squeeze. We feel the evil. We feel the cloud. It's there.

And you have a bunch of people who, whether it's for money or for fear, are allowing it to happen.

And there are so many historical lessons about what can happen to a country when good men do nothing.

And so what scares me is thinking about what's going to be like in America when my children are my

age because I was too scared to say something when Charlie Kirk was publicly assassinated and the

most powerful people in the country colluded to lie about it. If Charlie Kirk was not safe in the

United States of America, nobody is nobody is. Do you feel this is your responsibility to figure out

what happened and to keep the investigation going? I don't know if it's like my

I don't know if responsibility would be the word that I would use. I just I just know that it's a part of my journey.

More grandstanding, Matt. It's on the grometer for a reason. You know, like they're always

presenting it that they're just concerned about their kids and their grandkids and the future.

It's not about them. They just have to do this to protect people.

Yeah, yeah. It's a bread and Eric Weinstein, of course, I'll go to you for the perfect example of

this. They have the absolute best motivations. Why do they have this YouTube channel? Why do they

have this podcast? Why do they have sponsors? Why do they do it on the talking circuit? Why are

they doing any of these things? It's for the children. It's for the country. It's for the heart and

soul of our great nation. It's for all the best things. And yeah, it's a Christ-like post and

people eat that shit up. I agree with that shit up. Well, we've thanked Clep as well. We've moved

towards the Charlie Kirk conspiracy. You heard her mention there for anybody that lives under a rock.

Charlie Kirk was a turning point USA figure. I believe the creator of that conservative movement.

And he was assassinated. He was killed while at an event on camera very gruesomely,

horrible assassination. And can the soons like all great conspiracy theorists?

Has a lot of questions, man. She's got a lot of a lot of unanswered questions. What exactly

happened there? Now, it looked like to most people that he was shot on camera and his neck

exploded. He lost a lot of blood. They died very quickly from blood loss or whatever the case might

be. But that's what they wanted you to think. So let's hear some of her reasoning around the

Charlie Kirk conspiracy. Because I think this is a great illustration of a whole

litany of conspiratorial ideation and the kind of tropes that you find in conspiracy communities.

The varying stories that they've all told about what took place, why they were all then wearing

scrubs, Frank Turek saying that he was on the phone the whole time with and didn't realize with his

who's Frank Turek. Frank Turek was another one of the people that was in the car.

Okay. And he's former military. He was there and jumped in the car with them. By the way,

that's even weird. I don't know why he jumped in the car with him to be honest with you.

And he was at the hospital and he tells conflicting stories and says that they did perform CPR.

It's all just very strange. It just seems like something why why are all of your stories running

into each other? Well, how are those running into each other? What do they say? Well, some people

say they did give them CPR or some are saying they didn't. Good question, Sean. Good question.

One of the few I'm very theory. So you got to hear the kind of anomaly hunting, just asking

questions. There's a lot of things. A lot of people saying things. Sometimes I witnesses don't say

the exact same thing. How do we slay in that? What's going on? That's all that's strange, isn't it?

Yeah. Things don't quite add up Chris. Things don't add up. She's a great company, of course,

because Brett Weinstein has got incredible theories about childry cook that he has talked about

with Jimmy Dole. Another amazing thinker. Yeah, but he's... He's was at it's strong.

It's strong. Yeah, it kills him with the drone. Yeah, yeah.

The common denominator, it's not what it looked like. It was. And the one thing that is funny here

is she's questioning around the CPR. And now if you saw the video, might you would see that there

was a stream of blood loss quite quickly. It looks like the shooter seems to have hit the target

like right in his neck. It's almost like a video game with the... But she wants to make a thing

about like, what are they doing the right thing? Like, where they perform in CPR enough? And

the military guy, even though he's ready to go along in general, he reuses a point here that I think

is a reasonable pushback. So the discrepancy between the people that are in the car doesn't really

make sense. I mean, I don't know. Do you give CPR to somebody that's been shot in the fucking neck?

Well, if you don't keep someone's heart going, it doesn't matter, right? Like, nothing else matters

if your heart stops pumping. So yeah, you would give CPR. I would imagine you keep CPR going

at all times. I'm certainly not a medical professional, but I do know that like, if your heart stops

your dead, so you've got to keep the heart going. And them not having the ambulance on standby.

I'm not standing up for them. I don't know if you would do CPR. What would be the point of,

you know, if your heart's not going, your heart's not going. And I'm not even saying... And by the

way, I'm not even saying that what was right or what was wrong to do. I'm saying this to

research, not consistent. And that's what has been so troublesome for people that are investigating

this. It's why do you guys all have different stories? Why are there so many lies that have since been

unpacked that... Initially, they said a lot in the beginning and they've since pivoted

on their stories quite a bit. Yeah, yeah. So this is probably the... Like this interviewer is

fundamentally unqualified. It's to do anything except that his background in the military,

I think gives him some understanding of how to deal with gunshot wounds.

That's why I was pushing back over.

And then if you've lost a huge amount of blood,

there's probably not much that, you know, if you can't patch up the big hole in the neck.

So she's right.

You want to keep the heart beating, right?

But I think his response is like, but what are they?

What are they doing?

That's right.

Like, we keep the heart beating to move the blood into the brain.

But it does all in the neck anyway.

So he raises the question.

But you heard her like, it's illustrative there that she's willing to kind of like move on.

Well, you know, whatever, you know, it's just isn't it suspicious.

The comments, my point isn't the specific about this.

If you are, right?

It's just why is there so many different stories?

And like, this is the thing with conspiracy,

various stuff.

Why are there different accounts and different recollections of a highly traumatic event

that would have been huge,

chronicing commotion and lots of chaotic elements with somebody dying?

Why would people have not just a single account?

And then when they do offer a single account or they offer an explanation that's repeated across

sources, they're like, isn't that strange?

That they're all like singing from the same sheet.

Wouldn't you expect like some of them to say something different?

So, uh, okay.

So Chris, so, um, so Brent Weinstein's theory is that he was killed by a drone presumably

carrying a little expose of charge that a life that onto his life.

I thought it was just a bullet.

No, I thought he said it was all like,

the drone had like a mini cannon.

Yeah, attached to it that fired a mini bullet.

Yeah, okay, that's it.

He actually dismissed the exploding mic theory.

Oh, I see.

Yeah, that's the exploding mic theory.

That's the vanilla conspiracy theory.

His is a drone with a little gun,

but, but Candice, because I sort of lose the thread which he's talking about conspiracies.

There's a count track what she's saying.

Does she claim, yeah, it's essentially with an explosive charge.

He don't know.

Well, let's see.

Let's hear experiment.

The soil removed.

Why the fuck would they have the soil?

Well, their excuse is we were putting down pavers.

So it is normal to remove soil to put down pavers.

But why were you putting down pavers?

Why were you paving over the crime scene?

And in that scenario, I think you normally do

from somebody that is in that space said that about eight inches,

you would remove so that you can install the pavers.

They removed 10 inches of soil and they had two separate people do it.

So they had people working for the governments that removed the 10 inches of soil.

And in the next day,

the pavers came in and put in the pavers.

That's not normal.

You have a scene where people that do both.

So they wanted, they had to dirt removed first.

And so we have to imagine that that happened Saturday at the latest, right?

And because then by Sunday morning, the guy who had to put together a rag tag team

to do the paving, he didn't interview and spoke about it and said

he was told that the instructions were coming down from the governor of Utah

and cash per towels office.

The plug thickens, cash per towel.

Probably that would have been in the soil.

I've taken a long time to get to a place where I wanted to put forth a theory on what happened

that day. I think there is a lot of evidence that they would have found explosives,

which if I guess the way PETN is said is like, when do you guys say pen,

PETN? I'm trying to learn all the inside terms and sound like I know what I'm talking about

on all the military guy stuff. But if PETN was the explosive that was used,

and I think there is a strong theory that should be explored,

that a shape charge was used to kill him and that what killed him was on him.

So she is going, not necessarily, she does find like some inconsistencies in the way that

the mic appeared, but it was an explosive on him.

They had to remove the soil to remove the evidence of that.

So I see.

And normally they remove it in Chisma, but they removed tanin' things.

That's suspicious.

And the plug thickens right, because the command to do that came down from on high from cash

per towels office. That's right.

Yes. And so actually she talks about the mic issue. So listen to this.

See, we almost, we, I can't remember what this guy named, his name is, but my editor,

you were just chatting with him. He brought it to my attention. He was chatting with this guy.

Right after it happened, so I guess almost a year ago. And once I just never know what,

so many fucking people are trying to get clicks and shit, you know, either I'm like,

I don't think it adds up. And he would describe, you know, how it was going to work or how

it supposedly worked. And yeah, it was shape charge inside the microphone, right?

Yeah. And they had all these videos that show the blast and everything, but I don't know what say

I am what is. And I don't fucking believe anything. And it's less, it's literally right in front of my

face. But I still don't believe most of it. But, but to have a, the thing that really got me was

to have a microphone on a loose shirt when he's up at a chair like moving around. It just,

Mike on the inside, by the way, Mike on the inside. Yeah, the mic is on the microphone,

which is totally senseless. Wait, was it taped to his chest? What you see on the outside is the

the magnet that's holding the mic that's on the inside. Which like any person who mics you know,

as you don't put the mic on the inside because you get the sound and they were putting it on the

inside. You're mad. So the, it was going to mic on the shirt, right? And that's going to,

that's going to make the bristling sounds. And it was, maybe it was facing the wrong way. And

yeah, it's all starting to stack up. And this guy, this guy, you know, he's not sure, right? He's

he's a really skeptical guy. He doesn't believe any bullshit. Yeah, like he,

he's looking at these videos on Instagram and people are telling him ideas, but he's not, you know,

yeah, he thinks for himself, he's a skeptical guy. He doesn't believe that it can,

well, it's right in front of his own eyes. And even then, probably not. So that's the

safest to do. Just not believe anything. So, but look, I mean, this conspiracy nonsense with all

the little, yeah, no, they're, they're little factoids and stuff. It's, it's, it's part of the

course. All conspiracy theories look like this. Can I just check the grand, the grand schema of it,

the grand shape of the conspiracy theory is that the purported purportive shooter,

Tyler Robinson, was a patsy. He wasn't a real shooter. There were other people at the scene

who were playing these coordinated roles. And the motive was that Charlie Kirk was resisting Netanyahu

and pro-Israel donor campaign, so donor pressure and turn a, turniport USA is already being captured

by outside money, maybe Israeli money. But then getting him out of the way will clear the,

clear the space for Eric and Kirk to take over. Spoiler, mate. Spoiler. What are you doing? You're,

you're like, you're going, you're going for the slow reveal, were you? I mean, but you're basically,

yes, this is right. Okay, so let me fill in a couple of parts for there. So you mentioned that

the Tyler person was a patsy. That's correct, Matt. Yes. I don't think it was behind this.

I don't think Tyler Robinson was there. You don't think he was there?

I think he's a total patsy. I think they get, look alike, some, they get everybody where I'm

going to say I'm out, but I think he played a role. And I believe that what he did was he picked up

clothes and he dumped them behind the, the dairy queen. I think he had a role. But I do not believe

that Tyler Robinson is the person who was walking in that staircase. Okay, so you're right.

Tyler Robinson, not the person that did the shooting. However, he did, he did dress up and put

on the disguise. So he isn't involved. He wasn't there, but he kind of went quite a long way

to give the impression that he was there. That's how clever these conspiracy zakras. This is what they

do. This is right. And his flatmate, Matt, there's also conspiracy about him.

And I feel confident stating that Tyler Robinson did not kill murder Charlie Kirk, whether or not he

was an accessory to the crime. Do I believe he was that dairy queen dropping off clothes? Yeah.

How did he get mixed up in that? I don't know. Maybe he was blackmailed.

Maybe he got into involvement in some weird stuff online. That's the easiest way for the feds

to blackmail someone. I think his roommate is a federal asset, Lance Twigs.

That person, because the police didn't even question him, which is bonkers. Yeah, Lance Twigs.

I spoke to Lance Twigs his family. And they think he's involved. And they don't understand why

the police just sat him down for a few hours and then let him go. Right. So apparently,

Twigs gave a recorded interview to prosecutors. But only one, not only one or two.

Is that is that enough?

There should have been, there should have been at least four. Otherwise, it's just as vicious that

you think. And you mentioned Netanyahu and Israel. And yes, of course, they're involved,

because they're involved in literally everything that she talks about. And this, but then, yes,

it connects Israel and her. Do you think he was killed because he was going against Israel?

1000%. Why have lots of you go against Israel? Why not you? Why are you still here?

Thank you. If Andrew Colbert is to believe, he told me it was supposed to be me, which was an

interesting thing to say. What? Andrew Colbert said to me a few days after the assassination.

And at the moment, I just took it as poorly expressed grief, I know, because I didn't find Andrew

to be suspicious because I just didn't. My mind wasn't there, but he said to me on the phone,

it was supposed to be you verbatim. Are you serious? But I thought that was just,

he was crying. I was crying. I thought he was going to say something. He would generally say it

was supposed to be you. It was supposed to be you. So I have questions about that now.

Given everything that happened to Malita up to that, I think Charlie, I think Charlie knew something.

Well, no, we heard this, you know, the hard bit in skepticism of Sean Ryan, you know, he doesn't

accept things, but just when he comes across them, right? He's kind of like he's this guy that

doesn't believe anything unless he sees it with his own eyes, except kind of this is him, but she

was the actual, she was told she's the actual character and he's like, you're what? What the hell?

So just yeah, so it is very Eric Weinstein, it just wanted to invagal, you know,

insert himself into the thing later on you're here. So many people had the most amazing

relationships, spiritual relationships with Charlie Kirk after his death and Kandace Owens is

certainly one of them. But yeah, the scenario here is that Mossad, perhaps, really keen to rub out

Kandace Owens. Do you think Israel's in on the act? Yes. Me too. I think you should take them aside

at their word when they say we are the directors, the actors, we can infiltrate any organization,

any company, we're the script writers, I believe that. That's a 60 minutes review, right?

I don't know. The stars didn't align, couldn't get to a, the bomb didn't go off as well.

So then we went, oh, stuff it, I guess we'll take out Charlie Kirk instead then.

Is that what's the idea? I mean, we need to, you know, when you look at some of the stuff

around Erica, that needs to come up. But there's a couple of things that you might have missed.

So you're right, you know, in what you described. This is a thing Mastermind did by Israel.

But it kind of goes a little bit more deep than that. It was easy for evil to control the world

when we were dumb and stupid and thought it was impossible, right? Things, some of these conspiracies.

I mean, the fact that we are having real discussions about free masonry, about the occult,

about true demons, about what demonic possession is that you can sit here across from Father

Ripperger. And I read the comments and that was a transformative episode, by the way.

But to see all the comments of like, I need to go to church now. This episode maybe want to go to church.

Not this guy's crazy. What's he on? The exercise is just a movie, just a Hollywood movie.

That's uplifting. I think that's uplifting. And it had to happen.

You know, there, I think we as a society needed shock treatment. And Charlie's death was

shocking in so many ways, not just the death, the administration's reaction to it,

the his wife, there were so many shock points, it shocked the senses in so many ways.

It made us consider things that were so beyond the realm of what we, I think,

could have ever thought feasible. I think his assassination had to be live streamed.

And people who are evil. Some ritualistic thing.

Yeah. So for two men, so people who orchestrated assassination, it was ritualistic.

I think that they wanted to be publicized in that way, because they thought they were then

going to harness our emotion from having seen it to their benefit. And what it did was,

it certainly did harness emotion, but it was not to their benefit.

So my, did you know it's st.

Dominic Demons.

Yeah. I thought it was just Mossad, you know, but it's deeper than that, isn't it?

Yeah. Well, you know, every cloud has a silver lining. And yes, the assassination of Charlie

Kirk was bad. But the silver lining is that it's, it's working a lot of us up to the forces of

evil and demonic things at play. And we're, where our eyes are open now, we see what's going on.

I think this could be related to this conversion to Catholicism, Chris, because I have read,

Hey, leave us.

No, no, don't worry. You guys are the good guys. The bad guys.

I mean, I feel that the bad guys were mainly the Jews, but actually it's the Freemasons.

Well, they, yeah, are a dual enemy.

They're always trying to get you to do.

We're being involved. I'm glad that they mentioned that Jonathan Pajol must have been happy

at that point. Like, yay.

That's right. I mean, so, so here we go now. This is that so everything can be both.

So there's both this, like actually this reminds us of the Chinese clandings. What's

jam? Professor Zhang.

Yeah. So yeah, so you have the mundane conspiracy theories, just the ones involving,

you know, world spanning.

Just the usual on this, the medical ones.

The usual anti-Semitic world spanning, kind of networks of secret power.

And then there's the spiritual realm over the top of this.

And this is where Freemasonry and maybe the Jews, we can't say for sure.

But, you know, for them, they don't just want Charlie Cook dead because he's obviously a beacon

of light and truth and love. But it has to be done as like a satanic ritual.

Has to be performed in public, so as to have the maximum spiritual effect.

It goes a little bit deeper than this. It goes a bit more. There's more things connected in.

So, okay, yes, you've got, you know, you've got the contours, right? But so let's think a bit more

about where they want the channelless energy.

The emotional reaction that happened if they could have controlled it and built a conduit for it

would have been amazing if they could have just channeled it as they wanted to,

literally channeling energy, a form of witchcraft, right? And they wanted to channel that energy

toward Erica, who I am I honest to God perspective, I believe she is a tried and true psychopath,

truly. And I'm not saying that to be theatrical, I'm, you know, not trying to be hyperbolic,

I mean, like clinical psychopath. I, um, and I think that is what has shocked them is that they couldn't

do it. And so Charlie's death contributed to an awakening and I have to keep that perspective,

that, um, you know, keep going. Yeah. But they didn't even look into his own assassination attempt.

Trump, yeah, Butler, they fucking walked the investigation. Yeah.

So Sean Ryan, injecting a point here, you know, Trump's assassination, they didn't even look into

that. And you know, they wanted to channel the energy. So Candace Owens thing,

no, is that it is, you know, Israel and Mossad and stuff. But like they are channeling the dark

energies via, you know, demon witchcraft power and we're going to eat them in that Erica,

who she doesn't like, and presumably power her up. But it, but it kind of feels because the

energy got reoriented by Candace and others, right, into their, their movement. But you heard

the hammer that, you know, they didn't look into Trump's assassination and that's odd to

it. And you might think, well, Candace Owens, you know, she just heard that. So that will be

news to her. And actually, she already knows about the connection there. I covered that recently

on my show and there is a, it should be reopened. And I think it was a successful assassination

of Corey comparatory. I think that the firefighter, I met his daughter. Did you?

The inauguration that I never should have fucking went to. Yeah. Well, they don't believe the story.

They are not satisfied his family is not satisfied with the investigation. And there was a

strange set of circumstances of his best friend from high school having died a couple of years earlier

from a plausibly PET and explosive. And I covered that recently. The strain from that explosive.

Mm hmm. He worked with them. And I covered it recently on my show. The firefighter that was killed

worked with the PET and plant. His best friend died a couple of years earlier and worked at,

basically worked. He was a supervisor at a company that dealt with PET and explosives because

they perforated the wells for oil and gas companies, which requires the PET and explosive.

He died in a mysterious set of circumstances in his backyard where he was burning stuff in

a barrel and something exploded. And ironically hit his neck. And he died instantly.

The conspiracy goes deeper. Wow. What do you think? I think it's pretty amazing. So, does that

is he implying that the assassination attempt on Trump was not actually, he wasn't aiming for Trump.

He hit his target. He hit the firefighter. His friend also died a few years previously. And his

his work involves PET and this explosive, which also could be involved in Charlie Kirk's thing.

It's so very, wow. So, but this is used to me. This is all huge of chirp.

Like, do you ever watch Spiris Balls where they were doing the Star Wars party,

where they were doing the thing where the dark-founded guy says, before we fight, I want you to know,

he says, I am your father's brother's second cousin twice. What does that mean?

Because absolutely nothing for him. Here, it's not even that the guy quarried, that he worked at a

patent plan or whatever. Right. It's his best friend from high school, died a few years previously.

And the guy says, so he worked at a patent partner. He said, he was a supervisor at a company

dealt with PET. Because they perforated the wells for all the gas companies. So the actual connection is

the guy that was shot, his friend died and conceivably worked at a company that had some

connection with PET and for some of their projects. And that meant he had to retake an art,

right? Because that guy died. He blew himself up with pet and explosives or whatever. And then

Corey has to be taken out in advance. Well, I don't think it's clear that he died

from a patent explosive. He died in mysterious circumstances, burning things in his backyard.

But it could have been patent-math. Yeah, I see. And patent is connected because even though there's no

evidence, am I right? Am I right in thinking that the only thing, it's only her saying,

that PET and it was a new answer to Blop, Charlie Cook. Like, it's like, okay, right. All right.

So it's, yeah, that is, and the thing is each step, the way as they're doing this, you know,

you can hear him saying, interesting. So he was like working at a patent factory.

And again, just a reminder, this guy, he doesn't swallow anything. Right? He's the kind of critical,

you know, people bring him down and he's like, he's a good guy. He calls bullshit. Yeah.

Yeah, he doesn't buy things on the first pass. And yeah, so okay, that's a lot of questions. Let's see

where they go with this. There's a lot of questions about, you know, shortly after Corey died,

Israel did their beeper, patent explosive attack within like two months, it was very quickly.

That's weird. All of the stuff could be considered conspiracy, but I think what adds weight to

it conspiracies are a lack of answers. When there's a lack of answers, conspiracies become weighted.

And you can't tell me that it's normal for a man to survive an assassination attempt and shut down

the investigation into his own assassination attempt. That doesn't make sense. Trump can't make

that make sense. Do you think he knows? That's why he's blocking the investigation. Is it him blocking

it or is it that? Well, if Tucker is to be believed, you can decide whether you believe Tucker or

whether you believe Dan Bungieau, but I'm going to go with Tucker Crossings. Yeah, I'll go with Tucker

on that. I'm going to go with Tucker and Dan's reaction to what Tucker said was very strange.

Yeah, so it's real. Israel came back. Israel got back. I mean, it's kind of funny, isn't it?

High goes like, you know, it's demons and it's a public ritual. And then it, oh, but it connects

to this allure conspiracy. And then it's tied into their little rivalries. And then it's Israel

again. Right? Yeah. Israel. I don't get me wrong. It is all about demonic forces. It is all about

all happening on the spiritual plane. It doesn't involve, you know, these evil devil worshipers,

like Freemasons is on. But it's not anti-Semitism. We're talking Israel here, right? Remember,

this is the country in Mossad and Netanyahu and stuff like that. Don't let the religious

spiritual stuff lead you astray there. Okay. So yeah, I think people are getting a good

sense of how conspiracy theories work. I mean, they're all like this, aren't they?

Like structurally, they all involve this kind of thing. Yes, they do. And I'll go back to it,

clip where it like before we get it, before we got the here, or the R&I, right? The groundwork

needed to be later. At the beginning, it was a much more grounded, you know, here's some

details from them, right? Or that don't that up? No, I were fully in the like,

genre sphere, right? Like pain-ponging around between demons and Israel and wherever. But just to

make your point, crystal clear, Ma, that, oh, this is good old-fashioned anti-Semitism is at the

heart of it. Like, here's just one of many, many clips that I have that illustrate this.

And I think about my, here goes words,

Charlie in his life and how it became an Israeli Truman show, but similar for Trump.

Everyone around him is just working for a higher boss, and it's the Rothschilds in its Israel.

So all of that, all of that is performative. I mean, I couldn't be motivated to vote for midterms.

Yeah, me neither. Especially after what we saw happen with Thomas Massey,

where they're just so in our face about it now, whether like we don't like you,

if you have a queen against Israel, we'll spend. That's the only thing I can't really put

together in my head is we see this act. We see all of a sudden, everybody's a tough guy against

Israel, like, oh, right, okay, right around the corner from midterms. But I also don't really

believe in the election system because of all kinds of shit we've seen, Spencer Pratt's race,

probably the most recent one, Massey's race. So if the elections are phony, then why do they

give a shit about the act? Because the illusion matters. Why does it matter? Because they need,

think about if truly tomorrow, they came out and said, your vote doesn't mean anything,

we've been running the elections since the beginning of time. We kill people in broad daylight,

yeah, we did JFK, we did Charlie and we're going to keep doing whatever the hell we want. So

I feel. Yeah, yeah, I mean, look, this is interesting because I think there's like a subtle thing about

a bad understanding how conspiracy theories work here because you've got these two layers,

right? You've got the the real world layer or the mundane world where you have

exploding microphones and drones and fake doubles and you know, that sort of conspiratorial stuff.

But all of that kind of conspiracy kind of raises all these further questions like about,

okay, well, what's the motive and what's the mechanism and who ordered it and who paid and who

recruited them and what's the chain of events, all of these details. But if you shift it up to,

well, actually, this was an act of a blood sacrifice and to spell where the broadcast was actually

part of a dark ritual, you know, you know, because because maintaining the illusion is all a part

of how these demonic forces control us. Then it kind of shuts down all those other questions.

That's kind of the deep reason why all of these seemingly crazy things are happening because it's

demons. Demons do a lot of every lifting. They do. And it's very inconsistent because they can go

that they don't even need to care about, you know, they don't like they just they control everyone,

they tell everyone they're going to kill and then but they they also have to convince everyone

that it's not them and but they have to do a public ritual to harness them. So like they're

constantly having to reveal their cards and hide them and reveal them and it just depends on what

suits the particular argument that you want to make in that moment. And she talks about,

you know, an eternal evil since the beginning of time. But she's talking about this.

Yeah, yeah. And she's she's called the star of David and a cult symbol. She's described

Israel as an, you know, and the Masonic track and the jurus track that they're two sides of the

same coin, right? These are the anti-god forces in the world. Yeah. So you like you said,

you have the kind of flip between those two levels. You also have the fact that like that's

the political world. She also talks about, you know, the Jews, as you might imagine, they control

the media. You know, the biggest I think the biggest issue that we have right now in America

without question is Israel. Israel. And the satanic people who support what they're doing.

Um, the bloodthirst, the control, they behave like a mafia. And I'm talking specifically about

Zionists. And sometimes people will say, when you say Zionist, you mean Jews. I want to be very

clear, the Judeo Christians can be some of the most toxic gang like people who are part of the same

apparatus. So you actually can't isolate it. Um, but I have found, and which has been the experience,

I think of a lot of people, especially over the last year, this is this is a gang. This is a mafia.

This is not normal. What they did, the pressure they put Charlie under, what they did to me,

what they're currently doing to Megan Kelly. I mean, Megan Kelly, I think it's probably the greatest

example. What did Megan Kelly do? Like, Megan Kelly was like, I'm a Zionist and they were like,

we don't care. You say something about Tucker Carlson right now or we will destroy you.

And that's a mafia. And you, yeah. And me. That's a mafia. That's a, that is, you are with us or

you are against us. And I faced that obviously in my own life and saw that and I called it out for

what it is. And we, it's by the way, we're late to the party. Michael Jackson was trying to say what

it was Kanye West was trying to say what it was. They lived through this mafia. And um, finally,

we have people understanding that I think, I think when you're reaching to Kanye West is a voice

of truth. But blood thirsting for blood, Chris, that was the phrase there that stood out to me.

Yeah. And demons, demons, and I like, it's the tonic people who supported this mafia,

the Zionist mafia. There was also that point that I saw your expression, but

for the same as mine as she, she wanted to do, I think the usual disclaimer of like, I'm talking

to my Zionist, not, you know, people say I'm pretty much in all Jews, but no, but she kind of got

lost at the source. And ended up saying that Judeo Christians can be some of the most toxic gang-like

people and they're part of the same apparatus. You can't isolate it. So she's kind of like,

she didn't at all. The three of them, she's tired of she got to, she actually was like, yeah,

it's actually bigger. It's like Jews and some Judeo-Christian people as well. So like, they're all

in the same place. And it's for her particular sect. So that's not really, yeah.

Yeah, it didn't quite work. It's the Jews on their supervisors. That's richly out.

Yeah. So look, this is obviously layered on it. There's obviously a great deal that you're

going to have a difference of opinion. I should always say, you know, it states about,

how much support should they give to Israel? How much should Israel be blamed for Palestine?

How much do you support Palestinians versus Israel? That kind of thing, right? So that is a definite

wedge issue within democratic party, but also within conservative circles as well. And you have

people like Kandisolans on one side and other people like, I don't know, Ben Shapiro or whatever

on the other side. So there's a real policy, politics difference there. But the difference with

Kandis is that, you know, she'll move around from criticizing the Israeli military

to then talking about a sinister ring of Jews and Hollywood controlling and getting paying

everyone to being like a rabbi, being drunk on Christian blood. And, you know, you know, I think

you have to recognize that like, you know, how all the criticisms you want of, you know,

the foreign policy of the United States and their involvement with Israel and their conflict in Gaza,

right? If you can't recognize this for rank anti-Semitism, God help you, right? Like, then I'm sorry,

but you might actually have at these suffocates because you don't have to do this in order to

criticize Israel or their foreign policy. What she's doing is exactly the kind of protocols of the

elders of Zion style anti-Semitism. And that's why when you see people like Anna Kasparian doing

similar things, cleaning the Jews, new about 9-11, right? Not like that kind of stuff. That is

anti-Semitic regardless of whether they have political positions which have legitimate criticisms

of like the state of Israel or American involvement in Israel's conflicts, right? Yes, you can have

those. You don't have to do what is going on here. And this is exactly, you know, the kind of thing

that I saw for ages in all conspiracy communities, including Alex Jones and the Info Wars,

always lurking in the background. Are these old conspiracies around Jews and the occult and

Satanists and so on? And they're always there, right? Like, and the difference is like,

Satanists are a tiny, tiny group, right? And they're generally not in a real threat. You know,

you have the modern instantiation of Satanists, but they were an imagined population for most of

history. There weren't really these huge grindies of like secret devilish words, but there really were

Jews in history. And they really feast pogroms and stuff because of often being maligned like this.

So it's really clear that that's what this lineage is in. And it isn't just the ribing, you know,

from the foreign policy conspiracy. I know you're not saying that. I'm just sure that people

do this kind of thing because it's not subtle. No, no, it's not subtle. So I think I think it's clear.

Okay. Well, so where are we? Where are we? We've already gotten to. We've gotten demons. We've

got exploding mics. We've got all sorts of things going on. I've lost track.

Well, we do. We do. And you know, okay, I'll bring it back to reality, Ma. Lee,

and about the growing level before we, before we got into that flight of fantasy, when you

tried to summarize her conspiracy, right? That's your fault. But then we went on this flight of fantasy.

Where were we? And that's where we'll have to cut it for today, Ma. We'll leave people

as a state of suspense. They've seen some of the moinked in-pops that we're arriving at.

There's still a little bit of material to dig through in part two, but yeah. So people

understand this too many high-level ideas flying at us to deal with. It's just one show. We

did. We've can't just deserves more. She deserves a second. That's right. We haven't even begun

to outline our theory of cancel. It's like, like Zhang and Candace, you know, in this part two,

we're going to connect that the quantum physics and Brazilian moral people and all sorts of things.

We need to learn about this terrible woman, Erica Kirk. Oh god. Yes, I forgot. We haven't even

played this yet. And don't worry, there's many more clips of I'd like Jews or the Evo

and look at the world that we didn't exhaust those, not even by half, but yeah. So if you've

enjoyed this and times in the Candace Owens, come back and join us for part two.

Let's do it. Yeah.