Candace Owens, Part 2: The Woman Who Noticed Everything

Hello and welcome back to the

Back to coding the gurus where Matthew brought the psychologist in Christopher

Kavanaugh, the cognitive anthropologist slash psychologist look at the greatest

minds the world has to offer and try to understand what they're talking about.

No, I'm doing the introduction because this is part two of our Candace Owens episode,

so we don't need the whole rig moral right it's just the you know a little buffer

and get back the things. I noticed you jumped in there with the introduction we hadn't

discussed this previously. So is that a great deal?

No, yeah. Not a great like you've been encouraging on my territory for a while now first

you know I'll just take care of the introductions for the supplementary materials and the

decoding academia's and look why not Chris why not take this too why not take it all.

Just even time I'm just being a fish and you know that's me that's what people always say

he gets to the point so directly so you know that's that's the way it goes but I just

wanted to keep you fresh now for a keeny-eared listeners they may note that the audio has

probably slightly altered because I'm back in my domain that I'm back in my office I'm

out of the manga cafe cubicle and yeah that was not a solubrious environment for you like

a man like yourself cannot flourish in such an environment I think because you don't

know what goes on in there. I know what that's the problem that is the problem so yes I've

exited the cold and mega cafe it's called a mega cafe but pornography is available as well as

mega so I'm told that is true yeah by default not that you have now do so for it by default

I'm clear Chris did not evaluate yeah by default I don't know it's on the computer you know it's

the internet and that kind of thing but yes you could call it a mine gear cafe could refer to

as a private masturbation box whichever whichever I'm not in that environment now I'm back in my

office with my ability to spread my arms out and what have they done to us what have they

done to us Chris what is the modern world done to you particular you're you're in a masturbation box

in Tokyo the size of a broom closet I said you could call it that let's not talking about a wild

conspiracy theories promoted by Candace Owens this isn't right isn't living anywhere you back home

now those are the sacrifices we meet for the podcast that's right and so people adjust your

pitch on subscriptions accordingly and yes in any case we're back to look at Candace Owens where

we left off map was that we got signed to carry away with you going into her conspiratorial cosmology

right and we saw some of the heights that she reached with the eternal cosmic Jews controlling

all facets of the media and society and so on but demons were lurking although

entities hanging around causing trouble but let's get back you know I said let's take a dime

dine a notch right that's where it goes but before we get there some of her material

provides the raw foundation in conspiratorial reasoning to you know build up to these

heavy heights so it might be worth just looking at some of that so here is an example of how I

Candace reasons how long have I been tracking my microphone I actually so I always try to

approach things with just what do I observe with my own eyes and when I brought myself to being

able to watch the footage of Charlie dying the first thing I thought was that he was shot from below

because I watched his shirt go out and I was I watched the friction of his body and I saw

that his necklace broke before he was hit I thought I was so strange I was like somebody explained

to me why if someone shot him from above his necklace would break first and whip this way

because necklace whips this way and then he gets hit and then he and I was like so I just in my head

and I was assuming that it was a gun was like I think someone was under him like that's the only

thing I'm explaining his shirt doing whatever and then I saw John Bray's who you're referring to

he was online and he was talking about this explosive and I saw that and I was like in my head

with my limited knowledge on what he was speaking about I went oh well it's not going to be

explosive because then if it was a bomb Charlie would have been burned in charge and I knew that his

body was not burned in charge and so I but I kept following him. She's noticed a few things

she's seen the video things the chem apparent the official story did not match what she could see

with her own eyes. And this is a very common thing that would come across right that people

are I mean it's actually sort of the archetype of conspiracy theorists that they're sitting

you know looking at a greenie video drawing lines across it and trying to calculate trajectories

and stuff and you know in the modern era the videos are higher definition but the process is the same

so she noticed does that make sense you know the the jacket moves first or the necklace

weighs this way but that doesn't apply you know just think of a unrelated thing the moon landing

where people are like ah but the shadow right the angle wouldn't be like that and why does the fabric

move on the flag when there's no wind right and there are answers to all of these but this is how

the conspiratorial mindset works you you notice things and you know maybe when you watch something

you do go oh I wonder why that happened that's that's not the way the conspiracy theorists think

they they wonder for a second why that happens and then unless there's like an immediate answer and

even if there is an answer that you come across it's just the catalyst for them heading off in the

conspiracy land right and so yeah she was watching the video noticing things other people missed

yeah like so Candace Owens is not interesting or exceptional in any way in terms of the

conspiratorial reasoning because it's as common as anything so yeah the the general pattern is that

they accrue a list of inconsistencies a list of questions things that don't fit things that seem

odd etc they never do too much work in kind of really considering those explanations like it but

if somebody you know actually confronts them and gives a completely undeniable explanation to one

of these aberrations or exceptions that they've noticed then they'll go well okay but that still

leaves 97 better yes I've got here and they will move on the same process has been seen time

of time again with so many popular conspiracies I was just thinking about Flat Earth this morning

having a chat about that and it's another classic case right something Candace Owens also

believes in so there you go you're kidding you're kidding uh she really I did not know that I can't

well I should be careful it does Candace Owens believe in Flat Earth as she definitely said that

science is a is a pagan thief that's the way she predict and of course he pushed me on this and he

was talking about the earth curvature and science and I said to him listen I'm not a flat

earther I'm not a round earther actually what I am is I am somebody who has left the cult of science

I have left the mega church of science because what I have now realized is that science what it is

actually think about it is a pagan faith and I think at the very least she had talked about that

she was reading about Flat Earth theory and so on so hey Gremot yeah the flat earther conspiracy

you know connects and it certainly does it certainly does so does this continue to have more it does

so we had her relying on her intuition right and anomaly hunting common patterns of conspiracy

fears another common thing that happens but when I saw the carpets first thing I said was oh that's

so weird like well why is there black glass on the floor right away just like a ton of like black

what looked to my eye as glass charge in the floor and John Bray messaged me and he said on x he said

I just watched her episode that's exactly what I was looking for support my theory and then I

said what do you mean he said I've been saying that his road mic was rigged but in order for my

theory to be true the road mic would have had to explode into million pieces and that would have

been on Charlie and they would have had to get that off of him in the car and so I went well I have

I have car photos and there's very clearly now to play devil's advocate as I always try to do could

it could have been somebody sunglasses they stepped on that broke into a million it looks

it's a lot of glass it's in the seat that Charlie was on it's behind it's I mean hard plastic 80 80

things called ABS plastic and if you watch videos people just smashing a road mic that's exactly

what it looks like is littered all over the floor so now we have to say why did his necklace break

first then his road mic break second and we're looking at it now we're looking at a trajectory right

before he gets hit and you do see it move across like if you watch the video again without trying to

mean expert if you just sometimes look at a video and say what do you see slow it down what do you

observe happening and that is what you observe you observe something moving across his chest

and then suddenly you see a wound here so the thing for me the armad was that she's doing her

free and by free analysis of the video and relying on the orientation what looks off what

what does she think then she goes on X after presenting some of the anomalies and somebody also

in X says oh well actually I just watched your episode and not supports my theory here's some other

things right so like the conspiracy networks work by people providing other anomalies or trying to

connect in your conspiracy to their conspiracy right and as we know they can end up disagreeing

about various facets or having mutually conflicting conspiracies but even if we've noticed

in canvases conspiracies of her own making there are details which don't fit together and it doesn't

matter because she just froze so much so you know and also that posture might have like you know I'm

gonna play devil's advocate is there another explanation for this I always like the challenge

my ideas and it feels the same way Sean Ryan is always critically evaluating the information

he received so they but they like that always presented that you know they aren't very careful

they test all their possibilities and stuff before they accept anything oh yeah they're

conspiracy hypothesizing Chris it's responsible conspiratorial reasoning uh yeah it and it is a

little ritualistic roleplay isn't it the land and alternative but it's just to be a set up to be

immediately dismissed yeah and uh the the interesting thing is is that the the burden or explanation

is always shifted to others you know questions erased questions erased yeah there there is never

a pause to ask hang on is the is the concern of God is it legitimate or is it flawed so like for

instance this kind of analyzing the video in terms of the order of events of seeing a bullet or

seeing him get shot versus a necklace breaking versus you know a collar moving or whatever

like the speed at which all of those things happen yeah you know is not going to be captured on

a normal normal video frames another good example of this of course is the UFO stuff another

another a reader of conspiracy land which heavily depends on people inspecting footage and

their reasoning entirely relies on that so I guess I was it a cool to incredulity it's like

oh yeah I don't understand why that would look like that someone explained that to me

oh when mequest does explain that nobody cares

big spotations explanations dismissed as much as possible and if they ever are accepted

then reluctantly they will move on to one of the other objections yes yes so mequest never really

find for debunking never thank you service no no no Eric explain why do I not like the feeling in my

body when I see your near dimensions I wonder why Eric um so you mentioned that like there's never

this pause considering are they the ones making the mistake or you know is there an iteration

not the final arbiter and there was this part this is when she's moved on to the conspiracy and she's

looking at you know stuff that's been released or not released and how it doesn't line up and

this just struck me that she is incredibly narcissistic in the way that she approaches things so

bear in mind this is after Charlie Kirk has been shot and there's mass interest in it there's

there's a whole bunch of chaos there's people responding and she has access to some of the people

involved because she worked for turning points USA she's a hyper-procure figure so just just listen

to what she's up to in the aftermath my eyes when I was watching the event as someone who had gone

on tour with Charlie every single year since 2018 2017 so 17 18 19 20 20 20 up until 2024

which is the first time they started doing this double mic thing on him right the fall of 2024

is I'm going why is Terrell there it's first thing I drew my eye it was like why is the head of audio

visual here he doesn't come on campus events this is new and then I see that he's taking the camera

down and I'm like that's weird and the internet's going crazy about this on Michael Terrell's been

there for 12 years one maybe longer I know I'm just going to call him and ask him what's up like

maybe there's a reason maybe and I assume he was going to say something like you know

the police asked me to I don't know you want to see the footage instead he was the first person

that made me realize something was very wrong because he was very nervous on the phone I asked if

I could see the back footage just to like clarify with people like looking out for you Terrell

I can tell them what's going on and his energy was just completely wrong he came up with a

million excuses why I couldn't see the back footage he told me he didn't know how to send a file

I'm like Terrell you run audio visual company you know how to send a file then he told me oh yeah

I do know how to send a file but I um I really didn't I I'm afraid Google's going to hack me if I

send it and I said Google's going to hack you if you send me the file of the back footage and I didn't

accept that obviously and then he said well I grabbed the camera for Erica so that she wouldn't have

to relive her husband dying over and over again and I said his death was live streamed everyone saw

Charlie die yeah so recounting this personal conversation obviously it's all yeah it's all

here it's all here say second hand yeah yeah yeah can't assist version of it who can know what

grades of truth were in that who could know why someone might be reluctant to say can't

assist in the ear yeah so there's like the thing that strikes me there is she's like the guy's

nervous in talking to me and I'm just trying to get video footage that I'm gonna show to

millions of people of like a high public murder why won't he immediately share it with me and

eat it's coming up with these excuses and so I'm like she doesn't at any point seem the

factor in maybe he doesn't want the shirt with you because you're a conspiracy theorist or

for a huge platform and he's likely you know if he shares this footage he has of a recent murder

it might not be something that would be wise for him to do but she's immediately like he was

acting nervous that's weird why is he nervous you know I'm just saying and she's explicitly even in

her acquaintance she's like I'm going to tell all other people this will be good for you it'll

protect you Carol because others will come out there like why don't you come after me

I kind of I don't know why she's so nice Chris she says a lovely person what would anyone be

nervous about this yeah I had to understand it is hard to understand then there's this

other part Matt were this just speaks to me of the conspiratorial mindset and Sean Ryan helping so

there's a part where there was somebody who described Charlie Kirk as a man of steel or something

like that right they you know they described them like that and there was some question about some

video or where there wasn't a huge amount of blood possibly because he lost a few of it already

but but but in any case that's the context for this this part of the conversation but just look

at the way they've reason here he said I don't know like you know maybe it was a frangible bullet or

something I don't I have no idea and he's going off of them saying it was a 30 on six and at that

point Erica offered an explanation and she said well my baby you know he ate so healthy and I'm

sure it's like he had a man of steel neck because he ate healthy how the so wasn't there a picture of

Robinson standing at a dairy quain right in front of a poster that said man of steel yeah which actually

was in theaters and so that was like weird but Erica is that that quotation and that explanation

came from Erica as she was trying to pull an excuse out of the surgeon which somehow got elevated

to the number one priority on the day of her husband's actual funeral they were stressed out that

the public had learned that the bullet didn't go through why would you be stressed out about that

I would be mourning by wife or who might say another you know I wouldn't be

so what do you think is going on I mean who is Tyler Robinson what the fuck was he doing there

I want point the Sean Ryan guy tries to suggest that like Tyler Robinson there was a picture of him

in front of a poster for the man of steel movie the superman movie that had the man of steel

caption or whatever and they're like and then Erica Kirk described him as a man of steel in some

segment when she was talking about him and isn't that suspicious and you're like what

so to to be clear to be clear this guy Robinson was in front of a man of steel poster a film that

was just had just been released in cinemas yes some shot of him near a poster that says man of steel

and completely separately Erica Kirk given this sort of foxy line about you know how has been

being so great having having a very strong neck or yeah very suspicious so that is such a

perfect example of the conspiratorial you know you've got one pin in the board over here another

pin over here and connecting it with a little piece of red string but remember Tyler Robinson

they'll go on to explain this and like well I guess he's part of the conspiracy because he's

patty pretending to be the shooter as we covered before they go on to say he he was like pretending

to be the shooter he did a costume change and all that so why would like like as an example like

let's accept the premise let's accept the conspiratorial premise okay so Tyler Robinson part of the

conspiracy are you know playing the full guy etc yeah a range of somehow to be photographed in front

of a Superman poster which has a man of steel phrase on it so is to connect to Erica Kirk

just grow you know using the same phrase in a speech you know but why why would the

conspiracy do this Chris why would they I think part of the reason they often go with an Alex

Jones did this as well is that the the demon people are supposed to there supposed to be hiding

things but part of their power comes from them leaving breadcrumbs in plain sight yes exactly

they have to signal what they're doing they're kind of like the devil you know like it's he works

in mysterious ways but he gives signals that he's operating so I think that is the general idea is

like and that's why they analyze like the things in pop culture and so on like why are they putting

things into popular movies well it's because you know they they're sending the signals for those who

have the eyes to see exactly and that's why this is so interesting because you could really write

I think about this and it's a general point that the conspiratorial connections they're all making

which is just you know reading signs and tea leaves what's why they said they they actually don't

form together into like a coherent plot that would actually exist in the real world because there's

no there's no logical reason for any of these things to be connected but this is where that having

that spiritual super normal demonic layer just as you said Chris is incredibly helpful because

it explains why why all of these random coincidences that they have noticed all mapped together

in providing evidence of a conspiracy theory and it has this wonderful connection at least on

a theoretical grounds to what Jordan Peterson and Jonathan Pajot and so many of these other flaky

people for whom this spiritual world the word of the word and signs and portance and symbols and meaning

is actually the true layer of reality that's the thing that is actually important and is actually

driving the epiphenomenal concrete real world stuff that we actually observe so it's it's very much

a style like a black hole of thinking that draws in a lot of different types of very bizarre ways

of interpreting the world yeah and eras speaking up as are we so interpreting the world we're

going to continue along that route but you know you heard there's vitriol directed towards

Eric at Kirk right Charlie Kirk's widow and one of the people who stepped in right after he died

to continue promoting Tony point USA and her and Sean Ryan hold a lot of vitriol directed at

the Eric at Kirk so a large portion of this interview is just talking about her and I'll

I'll play some of the clips about that you know I was in a phase of denial I was really at that phase

where I was hoping and I want to be bargaining I went through anger I went through a very aggressive

stage as Nile and I think my husband was realizing that I needed to get away at that point because

I was trying to say like no maybe he's really alive you know maybe they put him in witness protection

like that's that bargaining and then also the denial that's just in my face and um

when I got out there I was reading the messages and before she came into his life and

Charlie just really really really wanted love right he that was like it and he was almost like

poetic with stuff and he was writing about how how love could kind of make men move mountains

and so for me to have to mourn him and then have to consider that the thing that he wanted most

like he didn't get it it just gutted me it gutted me and so but I couldn't deny it anymore I

couldn't deny it and it was beyond intuition it was beyond her being weird it was beyond her being

at the office and then I got the um the zoom calls my assumption was that she was grieving like I

was and my assumption I didn't know she was in the office the next week as soon as she got back

she just wanted to reach the office and she was in the office the next week as soon as she gave

that speech to the podium that you saw where she addressed the nation not the I've forgiven speech

but like the first one that was like 48 hours after he died she was in the office the whole week

so now we're moving into the I think character assassination is probably a description of

Erica Kirk yeah and you know Erica Kirk she's the subject of a lot of memes because she you know

stairs weirdly at the camera and she took part in that complete farcical remembrance ceremony that

the conservative party put on after in the week of Charlie Kirk's death and she is a weird person

but a weird person is exactly the kind of person that would marry Charlie Kirk right Charlie Kirk

was a weird person and count the solan's is going to make a big deal as we'll see out of the fact

that like you know in her public appearances and whatever you know she promoted turning point USA

and that's weird and she didn't show the appropriate levels of grief that count the solans wants to see

and so on and in that respect math like I really feel like you can be like go fuck yourself

right like because you know one so as I said Erica Kirk married Charlie Kirk a strange person

has to fulfill that role but the second thing is like Charlie Kirk's primary thing was he did this

turning point USA conservative activism thing where he went around campuses and recruited people

you know to be more right wing and be ited people so in the week of him being assassinated

being like his organization will live on they won't deter us support his organization that's actually

not weird that's actually normal you can see it as opportunists they can like a bit Gouliche but

it's exactly like you know if a civil rights person is martyred they wouldn't be like well that's it

I guess we'll park this up now right the the speeches would be like the fight will go on they wanted

to destroy this movement now we will hold on in our efforts right so it's yeah but targeting someone's

widow in the week of them being killed it is very Gouliche right it is Gouliche well that's

very on-brand for Candace Owens very analogous to Alex Jones in his conspiracy obviously that the

target of the parents and families of the school shading victims but the thing that's really

masterful about Candace Owens and like I said there's nothing interesting interesting about

conspiratorial reasoning because it's it's bog standard as we like to say but she's very very good

in how she frames it so she's you know we heard just there she's she's a very reluctant accuser

you know because you know she's kind of aware you know you can come across this is kind of dangerous

territory attacking a grieving widow so she keeps escalating the accusations but they're always

prefaced with this sense of reluctance you know she was she was so reluctant to do it and I

was ignoring it I was I was ignoring it all but I couldn't deny it anymore so she's the person

that's been dragged to a horrible conclusion against her will so in it obviously it sounds good

from the point of view of her credibility also because she's not a conspiracy theorist she's

reluctantly facing the facts and and her own like the way she plays up her relationship with

Charlie Kirk no I mean you've probably got more clips to to show this but for now I'll just say

that all of the weird exception hunting she plays with Erica Kirk she she treats her own sort of

beautiful relationship with Charlie Kirk and in her own tragic bereavement at the loss of such an

angel of light such a good point in person too hard to hurt with the weirdness of his widow

yeah so you know then what she's driving towards as we'll hear more evidence of

is that Erica Kirk is loveless incapable of love fake totally driven by money and possibly a

psychopath can does however is the loyal friend who loved him and understood him more than

his wife did and she's speaking out because she could no longer stay silent well even even there

just in that clip just the note she mentioned like what Charlie Kirk wanted more than anything was

like love he was you know romantic at heart that's what he wanted and the true tragedy is he never

got that from that bitch what she saying and yeah and as she said much she she does contrast her

relationship with Charlie Kirk in the most darkest way so here's a clip making that very clear

I think that's why in retrospect people watched my show and people like Taylor Ren said why do I

feel like she tweeted why do I feel like canasos is the only one that actually cared about him

I didn't even realize that when I was just saying you know sharing all those like little moments

that I had with Charlie that that was unique and that nobody was getting that from anybody who

worked with him they were just trying to encourage you to donate turning point USA this is this is what

he wouldn't want you to do holy shit he wasn't like yes yes he loves building and he loves politics

and all those things but the actual Charlie was he was so funny like I mean it's like the fact

if they didn't tell you who Charlie was and how he was really good at voices and like he could mimic

anybody's voice and he was just he just had the best sense of humor he really did and

everything was just left on the table they didn't care that it was all about

building what Erica was going to step into yeah it's it is it is kind of a master class in

presentation management I suppose as she walks a fine line on one hand she needs to position

herself as central to this new thing because the the motorcycle run die of all of these gurus the

ones new brothers are particularly good examples but as true of many of them including Candace Owens

is that they are attention getters they are professional you know masses of the discourse they want

to put themselves they want to insert themselves into whatever is the biggest most newsworthy most

emotionally laden topic of the day so this accomplishes so many things right it puts her

front and center as the real person who really understood Charlie and he's he was so funny in how

he did voices it it sets her a contrasts her as being somebody who was just a being of love and

authenticity with the fake Erica who did these talks for the turning point where they were

talk where she just focused on politics and stuff she didn't mention you know all the little

special things that made Charlie so wonderful and she manages to deflect the obvious danger point

of being like looking like a well I don't know a bitch that's why it's for attacking a

a bereaved widow and she manages it incredibly well to just look at the YouTube comments

yeah yeah and and you know that way that she presented like you know Charlie was good at impressions

and they didn't even mention that and there's an art stream and and if they had mentioned that

if they'd focused on this personal characteristics it would be like why aren't they talking about

his like achievements as missions why are they talking about you know these it was

almost you're almost belittling belittling the you know the important role you had today yeah so

you can you could do that thing regardless of what happens and this is the power of conspiratorial

rhetoric you can interpret any set of events through a particular lens you just need to

write a good narrative around it and um kind of someone's to a credit is very good at that

yes yes well so a little bit more Erica bashing oh and one thing didn't know as well Sean Ryan's

reactions that's always the role of the interviewer and these guru interaction with a holy shit

you're telling me oh my god that's in I didn't know that right like that's about the thing

I long grip that I'm I'm very skeptical about everything you're all never I'll never tire of

highlighted nothing's just not skeptical about anything but anyway here's here's some more about

Erica I tune when I saw the the funeral so we're following it like post in Instagram stories or

whatever it was of her like Revan is dead body I would that I tune I was like what the fuck is

what is that yeah and then using your dead husband as a fucking social media post

and beyond that and again me ignoring it ignoring all of it and then it was just

actually on the day that your husband gets shot you didn't have a single one of your family members

go with you now one family member or friend went with Erica to Utah wow

yes he does play an important role doesn't he it just being the I mean he is he is on board with

all of this isn't he kind of he speaks quite strategically like he doesn't make such concrete

claims but he he does the kind of baffled in credulity and he he says things like I don't know

what happened I just know what didn't happen I kind of general that kind of very kind of stuff

yeah so a perfect foil for Candace and I think he's also the kind of person that if he was talking

to Erica Kirk if she asked to come on and he did that he'd be like yeah it is ridiculous that

people demonized you and what they said that about you like I I feel that they're not completely

blank canvases these people but they're willing to kind of go along in the moment you know with

whatever is easiest for them and then to present themselves the bit that gets really they present

themselves as these like stalwart guys that will stand up and call it like it is and that is not

what they're like because you heard at the start of this you know so we pointed out that he

conducted what Candace Owens described as a sort of forming name to be without pushback on somebody

that's part of this conspiracy but here he's like yeah that is bullshit why are they

when they're doing all that and it's so nah he's he's on board so actually you know you know what

it'd be good to revisit him sometime in the future I'm sure he'll talk with someone on the other

side of this oh yes all his guests are from the same universe and it'll be interesting to compare

his tone let's see if your thesis there about him oh yeah that's softly softly going along with

the flow yeah yeah why do they demonize you that's not she said some really convincing things

and it made a lot of sense at the time but yeah yeah that's that's probably asking for two more

self-awareness but then so you pointed out Matt you know the the kind of maligning of the relationship

and yes just one more clip to demonstrate that do you think that she had something to do with it

she was complicit or do you I mean we were talking about this earlier I came here from Bokeh

Raton for as the shallowest fucking place in the on the planet you see 19 year old girls with

76 year old men every single day planton sulhaki and more you know and it's just that's just

what that place is do you think it do you think that maybe she when they met she was you know she

just saw paycheck and she's an arse assist and had no feelings no love no nothing for him just

want to do marry into a guy who's making a hundred fifty million dollars a year

even if everything you just said was true she was motivated by money to marry him she didn't

actually love him let's even add that she hated him secretly right when someone dies like that

you still have a human reaction so let's who would you say is arch them assess Nick Fuentes

okay he delivered a more impassioned response to what happened to Charlie than Charlie's wife did

even your words even your worst enemy that's what I'm saying like forget we're move all that even

if it's your worst enemy in life when someone dies like that it stares you because you're like okay I

didn't really like this guy but like man I didn't want him to like that you know that's not that's not how

I wanted I wanted to you know debate him I was having fun hating it whatever it is that we couldn't

get that from his wife yeah yeah so I think the important thing to understand about Candace Owens is

that she's not uncontrolled and all over the shop making wild accusations whatever pops into

her head because throughout this interview Sean directly asks her gives her opportunities asking

her does she think that Erica had something to do with it that she was complicit asking her directly

you know who do you think is behind this and always her answer she evades that does not make a

direct accusation about Erica she does say that they wanted to channel the energy towards Erica

she presents Erica as being a beneficiary of the plot it's quite happy to accuse her of being a

clinical psychopath and a whole bunch you know incapable of love and you know not having any feelings

at all towards a Charlie Kirk just exploiting his death for money all of this stuff but she I think

quite strategically you know defines the boundaries of of where she can go and she she manages to

insinuate the absolute worst things about Erica with that I think overstepping a certain a bound

that would be dangerous for her yeah and I I like the way like Sean Ryan basically says you know

do you think that she's someone she's a narcissist with no feelings she didn't feel very love she

just wanted money and then kind of someone's just like even if what you just said was true

then and let's add in hypothetical where she wanted him to die right let's just imagine that

she ended up like they're both giving like what they've done to the audience is strong things

suggest that right you know when you put in the context of everything else they are saying not

directly but both of them is clever enough to constantly try to push it under the other one to

you know say or people yes people have said that are you know so are you saying that and well what

you just said yeah and they get you know they get the results anyway the audience if you read the

comments they get the the clear you know message that they want to communicate but it's with

that it's just that layer of you know yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and again I know I keep

citing Erdogan's team but you know many of our favorite gurus are very good at this the very

strong incineration without the actual concrete claim itself and you can quite easily paint a picture

like draw a little box with all the arrows pointing to a little empty space in the center there

which the audience reads completely according to your intent without actually saying the thing

you know could get you into hot water well there's a there's one aspect that I didn't well we kind

of mentioned but it didn't highlight it I think when we were talking about the mystical and spiritual

stuff so obviously she is pointing out that she's a very spiritual you know genuine person and all

these kind of things and that she has these intuitions smart right then that you know her life has

played out in a way like there's a special plan for her and she talked about her connection to

Charlie and it's more deep and genuine than that of his wife or possibly anyone else on the planet

but that's not the only special characteristic they they shared I know that it's not a coincidence

that Charlie kept telling me he was gonna die young that he had really really deep visions about

his death um in 2018 very specific visions about the fact that he was gonna die young and that he knew

that I would be the one to fight you know there are things that we don't understand for not meant to

understand them right I but there is something that is moving me that feels bigger than me I know it

matters and when I read back those conversations and think about how I was like you need to get some

sleep you're probably just tired no you're not gonna die young you know my death is gonna be tied

to turning point USA from the moment I signed on the dotted line he said he said he has the dream he

had the dreams repeatedly what were the dreams but he was gonna die young that he was gonna die in a very

tragic way and that his death would be tied to like saving the world waking up the world about something

and at the time I just I didn't I mean what do you say with that right if you were if I was like okay

sure give me a plan what would you like me to do when you die young like what was it gonna say

when I read it back it's haunting it haunts me and it haunts me because now in the way that he was

dreaming in 2018 I have had the most vivid dreams since he's died and I don't just count them

I I know there is just something spiritually pulling me and guiding me in ways I don't really

understand and so I just I just give into that there it's like he went out and I

something awakened in me I swear to god Chris religion has really done a number only not states

I mean honestly if you ever want to get kind of atheist pill they're just looking at the way in

which that magical you know religious thinking it permeates so many things and encourages so many

terrible what that is fallacious intuitions um so yes Chris I just want to point out you know my

favorite garrometer dimension Cassandra complex I submit this to you as as a special case she has

she's not she's not just a support investigator a journalist investigator getting to the bottom of

mundane facts and figures she's not just the best thing best to get her in the world

not just the best thing that I would do I that's right she not only was incredibly close for

Charlie and understanding better than potentially anyone else in the world but they were

spiritually connected psychically connected yeah that's right as she kept getting these you know

visions and Charlie Kirk was getting visions too he saw that he saw the cancer so it's would be the

one so to take up the role and the prophecy was right Chris after his death Kejus is at the

forefront I mean she's just there man you know I'm just asking questions but if it is like the

highlander you know the quickening where when one of them dies the power transfers across to the next

in line you know the fact that Candace was next in line I'm just saying I'm just asking

Carson she she benefited you know they were trying the evil forces were trying to point the power

to Erica but instead it seems that it got channeled to her it's just suspicious she just benefited a lot

psychically spiritually with attention from his death I'm not saying anything man I'm not alleging

anything but it's just you just gotta notice part of it like I mean it's so silly I do want to

I do want to defend the religious here my on behalf yes religious listeners or my mother right

because my mother has been religious my entire life I've went the church with her in the way the

Catholic story and all I can think she's never once told me that God reached into her dreams and told

her he has a vision for her and me and like I think most religious people they don't see themselves

as the central figures in the religious pantheon but people like Candace or or Jonathan Pajot

they very much are interpreting signals around them in a way that like their particular interests

are fitting into this grand cosmic drama and like you know in Candace Owens kiss or Jordan

P. Jones kiss they are central players right in the mannequin play of the universe so yeah yeah

oh no I can fully take your point and I'm actually aware that you know orthodox

Christian sources have actually condemned I think Candace Owens particularly right for this

just just like they've disagreed you know I just liked Jordan Peterson's characterizations

of Christianity but actually you know as you would know as being something good a student of

religion to yourself I'm given time to understand orthodox religions have always had this problem

you know you have the authorities but then you have your Joan of Arc and you're

you're various people having visions and things like that you know so you know maybe

pro-sort of even John the Baptist in the history of history as that yeah well exactly like it's

not a pejorative right it's like one person's crazy you know guru is another person's visionary

prophet depending on how history unfolds afterwards right but look the the other thing with this though

obviously is that we hate obvious but we're saying how incredibly self-serving all of his

businesses are right I mean I think most people have figured it out for themselves but it's

worth it yeah let's just make that observation no it's it's completely legitimate and like there

are points that we're repeating here but we're repeating them because it's in every clip right the

these kind of themes and even with that I think one thing to reiterate is that even though

this is all there she still does come across well right she comes across if you're

positively disposed during you're not poking holes or highlighting what she's doing or this kind of

pain yes she can often come across us like no she's she's actually just talking about her

intuitions and thoughts and she's reluctantly accepting these responsibilities and so on yeah

I really want to emphasize this point because I realize the people listening to this show

will be hearing Candace Owens interspersed with you and me cut of interjecting and cut a pointy

out all of these things right but you have to imagine listening to it in in its full glory four

hours yes with no annoying little critics like us we're sure on vians we're sure on ride

your feedback and Candace Owens in full flow and just you know put aside your prejudices against

right wing conspiracy theorist for a moment I just listen to it and you will agree I think that

she is incredibly charismatic and very convincing unless you check yourself you you do get the impression

look this is a lovely wonderful person here is he's telling the truth as as honestly and clearly

as you possibly can now Matt one thing that people like to do as well is to call out or criticize

others in the scene movement for doing things incorrect by conspiracy theorists often do this where

they'll criticize you know as we talked about they're often willing to overlook the learning

inconsistencies when they're reinforcing each other but sometimes it's useful for them to be like

that guy's conspiracy is really stupid like I don't believe that tick and they use that to bolster

as evidence that they're actually very critical people and Candace Owens here calls like the

religious grift on the right and opportunist religious pandoraes and I don't mean to attack vans

on this but just more broadly speaking the faith grift post-Charlie people have their intent is up

because that's been the entire turning point thing and it's felt it has not right to sure it's

felt an authentic and sure that was like a part of the evangelical world but there have been a lot

of I think missed opportunities for vans to not write about being a Catholic or say he's a Catholic

but to stand up to the stuff that's happening in the administration that's just down right on

godly you know you bomb a school with 150 schoolgirls in it and then they lie about it

and then it's sort of like whatever I don't know if you wanted us to do it it's

I think it's going to be hard for him to get around it so I but anything can happen in a world

where elections are faking gay anything can happen Marco Rubio could be the next president of the United States

someone they can control the whole mass he runs I hope Joe Kent runs he's great

and she she's actually genuinely good at describing those mechanics of of a grift right the emotional

manipulation monetizing a matter you know framing things as miracles because you know game

game understands game right and I think this is the right wing populist version of the left wing

like circular firing squad type thing where actually a crewing in group cache you will actually

get more of it more quickly by condemning others in the in group rather than just being another

person on your side condemning the people in the out group now you do that too so can't just

no one's just like any other partisan operator will be you know attacking gay marriage and the black

African-American you know civil rights groups and things like that as being terrible but they will

also attack other factions within their side and I think because that really does get them ahead I

think and you know this explains also why these populist political operators of all kinds are so

fractious because their incentives are are aligned that way I think yeah yeah and so maybe it's

worth just illustrating for people there's a couple of clips Matt that highlight work can't

this currently is in the right wing ecosystem right because she was a Trump promoter she's now

you know we heard her feuding with Trump right and being capable of showing you know she's she's

independent she's critical Matt right and calling out you know america bombed that school mat with

150 school kids and they lied about it now can this oh ends somebody somebody that would be very

happy to overlook I think bombings of countries where she approved of the outcome so that that kind

of like moral posture and always strikes me as just opportunistic right or very selectively

applied shall we say but another way that they do this just before we move to look at you know

the positioning of candidates always currently so they're criticizing Israel controlling America right

that's the position that you've got now and she's talking to the next military person Matt so you

know on the right there's the thing that you've got to support the military but she wants to demonize

you know what America is currently doing in its foreign policy you might say we've through treason

but here's one way of fretting not needle i believe that i believe that it is you are toy soldiers

and we're slaves yeah we're slaves we're slaves we're all slaves i've had a real awakening about that

we have to be tax fuels sending our money to Israel and our sons and daughters to die for them

yeah and people should not serve i've been strong on that it's like it our countries occupied

you are not signing up to serve from the united states military your streets are not going to become

more paved your streets are not going to become safer your schools are not going to become better

there's well so if that is a draw for you then sign up and serve the united states of Israel

but this is where we can make a difference yeah i find this this dynamic so interesting

because i think operators like canter-sonons are conspiracy theorists and populists first and right wing

and right wing agitators second and so when you have this weird situation where a very populist

conspiratorial administration is actually in power then they are going to become the bad guys too

right because the anti-institutional conspiratorial thing comes first so so Trump and the administration

and the entire government which they cannot deny has been controlled by by mega it has to be

part of the conspiracy because they're still doing normal policy things that american governments

tend to do yes well and and one thing that the right wing and alternative polka you know

alternative in proteation mark ecosystem has done recently is when some things have become

unpopular with the trump administration they've tried to walk back the support that they offered

you know by hosting trump and demonizing joe biden and and so on right i talked about that this

is what roguen will do as well like you know he will want to promote trump and he will buy

in every right wing thing but if they do stuff that's unpopular enough he will present that that's

not what he vote of our he's not really responsible for you know back kind of stuff i'm i'm

short in stocks in lex and and joe as well because i think like you said that joe was in his post

empire period and especially because he went all in on trump and when the trump administration is in

it's not going to be a fun time and it's hard to position yourself as the counter culture to the

you know like the administration and joe is actually a remain more of a trump supporter than

some of the others in in that space but to highlight that shift mat here's some talk about how

trump one point oh you know it's very different from trump two point go you you'd said something

earlier about you know we were talking about do you feel like it's your responsibility to do what

and then you'd said you you really trust your god when you're hiring people

i don't know man i trust my god but maybe i don't fucking trust my god because

the lead up to this last election was just all lies

something happened to trump right but something happened to all of them yeah well

ever single one of them who who else except joe can

i wasn't i mean what did you expect from Marco Rubio i'm like absolutely nothing exactly what we see

exactly i the person that i think i placed stock in was trump and we got played i mean there's no

other way to say it we got it's kind of shocking the ways that he lied and so you have to then go

why this is nothing like trump one point oh trump two point oh it's totally different and the obvious

answer is i think that trump desperately by any means necessary wanted to win again

felt the election like many people do feel was a storm for him in 2020

covid changing the way we vote i totally agree with that by the way

and his entire life's mission then transformed into i will do anything to win again

including making a deal the devil and selling my soul it'd be clear the devil is

israel oh yeah yeah the devil i mean let me just play a short clip not that that's

basically that's that's who the devil is and so trump is not his own man play it in simple

trump is not running the administration it wasn't a gift it wasn't hey i really love what you're

doing here's three hundred million dollars it came with contingencies demands one of it being

that they wanted to annex the west bank which was something that was told to me by charlie and

and your co-read who were present for that meeting between me and meadows in and dollar trump

that she said that i'll cut you this check but i when we want to annex the west bank

that's what he they want an exchange so now i think he probably has a little bit of regret

taking the money i think so i don't think he likes not being his own man i think that's what a lot

of the lashing out is about i think trump at his core wants to be liked and i think he knows he's not

liked right now you think you'll ever be liked again no no they're neither poor trump he's acting

he's acting out now but he's been hoist boy's own petard he shouldn't have taken that Israeli money

yet to let them annex the west bank i mean they haven't done it yet but it's coming up

now and that was the agreement indeed indeed okay so um look i think we've established this that

there is a very strong view there that the uh israelis and daniyahu and the roth's trials and

and the Jews more broadly Zionists let's be fairs be fair um up behind an awful lot of the bad stuff

that's going on at the moment which means that america is essentially an occupied country

and um the united states are very real yeah as they said the Zion Zionist occupied government

is another term for it math so yeah yeah but you know if you're finding that kandas Owens you know

analysis of the american current american administration is it's so astute you might also note

her analysis of the trump kids on what they were interested in because something something to change

they i mean listen to this i mean when avanka swimming to albania i was like what what

how much one money do you guys need what is enough enough never yeah and that's why you feel like

they fully have given themselves in because none of them were like that before you don't think so

no i think i spent a lot of time with dawn jr with dawn trump jr and he was a real person

and he was certainly a very close friend of charlie's he shocked me the most after the assassination

because i knew dawn and i challenged right away i challenged him i said if dawn jr who hunts

that's the guy he knows the wilderness if dawn jr comes out and says he believes that charlie's

neck stopped at 30 yatt six bullet i'll back off i don't think dawn jr has even spoken about

child assassination since i think a lot of people are are going to go to hell for any turn of day

i know a lot of people are going to go to hell for any turn of day but the level of

talked about the morning process of realizing that charlie gave so much of his life to put those

people into power contending with that level of betrayal transformed me

yeah well i mean a broken clock is is right occasionally and she's right in the sense that the

trump administration is incredibly corrupt wrong in the way which she got to that position and

i think the motivation hasn't changed all that much but yeah it's an incredible line of reasoning

so for kentis ohens it seems like this this assassination has now become like ground zero

for a huge realignment and a whole bunch of things or at least a reframing of where she's

positioned herself in the ecosystem yeah and the notion by the way that the trump kids were not

really interested in money or self interest with this current administration like really you know

uh there's so i like the idea that you know don't junior he's a hunter he knows how but what's

good yeah so that's it that's it such complete lies you know if don't junior kymite and said yeah

i think he was killed i just i would have stopped that would be it and you're like oh shh

shut up but but as you said that it's tied into this messianic vision about what things have

happened that you know since this assassination and that's why you know her preaching of this

conspiracy theories it might be seen as some as like a all the obsession but it's actually central

to everything that needs to happen right and um we've seen her Messiah complex in effect but here's

her tainted in for us uh anchorn vayan complaining about how slick the trump administrations

propaganda was so they answer your question no i don't consider myself to be republican yes i

do consider myself to be a conservative yeah i'm saying i don't even know what the fuck this

means i don't even know if i'll ever vote again and so i feel probably not i don't i just you know

going through this and uncovering everything that we've uncovered nothing's changed

i don't know about you but for me it's a fucked on up stress being associated with these people

now they have my number they can reach me i fucking hate that shit and then what was it all for

this shit that we see do you think this needed to happen what did happen this veil to be lifted

yeah i have to believe that i have to believe it i i am at my core an eternal optimist and i

don't want to give into like despair and i have to believe that

that Charlie was right that his death was going to happen because it would be tied to a global awakening

and i've seen that i've seen the seeds of that i've seen the sprouts of that i see

the incredible audience that i have amassed around the world

uh yeah um so one thing i'm sure you noticed too Chris is that um where they the place they

kind of talk themselves towards is an incredibly nihilistic one and this is kind of the end state

of most deep conspiracy theorists where where you know everything's alive everything's the sham

everything you thought was good was compromised um in their case their elected leader is a puppet

Eddie, Eddie think the Trump does or vans to criticize his role or whatever is just pure theatre

there's no point voting because the parties are a false binary the elections are fake

the country's gone it's essentially the United States of Israel now and so the exit

it seems to me for i'm not going to just backhand a someone's now but about this level of conspiracy

system generally the exit is often kind of spiritual rather than anything you could do in the

political kind of realm oh i've got an alternative take because while this is true like you

know Alex Jones will often do the same thing where he'll move into the spiritual realm right

whenever there's some something happening with the administration that he doesn't like or it's

hard for him to justify right but can the soons her and her elk including Tucker Carson they are

right winged Clements and yes they move a right right they they're kind of opportunistically

helping a right between organizations but i think that they're often looking for the next

political figure to attach themselves to right and so so Candice Owens she she was a big

Trump backer right Trump is in his second term now you know i'm sure he'll try to do something

to extend his administration or to decide who the next person is going to be but basically

he's gone in the next administration so what's the next thing so now people are being critical

of Trump more than they had been before right now the Epstein files and so on have like

decreased his popularity and now people are speaking out more and you mentioned JD Vance right

you're harder say i wish JD Vance would talk about more about this about his views and so on

and she talks a little bit more about JD Vance and a couple of other segments and see what you think

Matt i think that she is hedging so that she can come out for the next election cycle and

throw her right behind the next conservative candidate because i think that is what will happen

in most cases with these right they're kind of presented like oh they have principles they're

not just going to support the next candidate i very strongly imagine that most of these figures

that are being presented as renegades will line up close to the elections like old two support

the conservative candidate and if it's JD Vance that's why i think you get stuff like this

what do you think nobody in this administration speaking up what do you think they're all under

the same control or they all under Trump's control we know that charlie represented

almost a solitary voice maybe outside of JD Vance's in terms of trying to

communicate to Trump that getting involved with the problems about idea that administration is

not working for Donald Trump they're working for Israel obviously Trump is powerless everyone can

see that it's just it says i mean

i'd cash betel sitting right across from me at the other studio and we just went on and on

about the abstinence shed on and on and on and then nothing we're i mean where's cash betel from

he's from Vegas if cash betel has ever had any power in his life his power came from that

entire city was built by Israel you know Miriam Adelson has served the IDF

shelled natal since that his biggest regret was not having served the IDF

oh there you go Israel Israel is ultimately responsible right but but the point

they're charlie a solitary voice except maybe JD Vance but possibly JD Vance and cash betel did

get his position by being their conspiracy podcast gorilla he got his position because of

being from Florida was it a very sorry being from Vegas and Vegas is controlled by the Jews

yeah exactly i mean we don't have time to explore every conspiratorial thread that they guys

work but just just for fun the deal with that one is cash betel originally from Vegas Vegas built by

Jewish investors i think Jewish investors loyal to Israel therefore cash betel's power and influence

comes from Israel and therefore the abstinence files are gonna stay buried it's a beautiful

there you go that's that's a look just a little this is one of many many because burrito

but Chris i do take your point and i i'll retain my own which i think that that kind of

like extreme cynicism leads to kind of a nihilistic point where the sort of logical

outpoint is a kind of retreat to the you know religious spiritual fight against demons and so on

which ultimately the world we live in a fallen world and so on um i think that's the logical

but in practicalities as we argued before these people are primarily attention

getters they leap from topic to topic and you know the main discourse is in the political sphere

so they uh may well jump on to jadey vance maybe jadey vance will be restored hell even

Donald Trump could be restored they might switch and decide that he's good again now it doesn't

have to be coherent or anything like that they'll continually eject themselves into the political

conversation with some hope of of there being some good guys there but i just think ultimately

in terms of where they position themselves in the political spectrum i think it is an analogous

to like the you know the super hardcore online tankies for instance for whom Bernie Sanders and

Alexandra or case you Cortez if i've pronounced her man correctly yeah like they're demonized as well

right because because they're not because they're not pure enough they're not extreme enough

it's the same dynamic i would say happening on the right with people like Candace Owens

yeah well they're they're always attempting to outflank um yes always right by presenting

themselves as the other ones and they talk about who's going to be the next presidential candidate

right in america and she mentions you know various figures jadey vance's reference and then it's kind

of said you know i don't know if jadey vance can get out of the shadow of Trump maybe right like it's

a but it's so it's that little window which is always open and i just noticed that most times jadey

vance was referenced there was kind of the implication that maybe he's not responsible or you know

there's a way and it just so happens that he's the most likely republican candidate in the next

election your your prediction may well but may well be true right they may well embrace vance and i

i'm gonna make i'm gonna make an extra prediction that rides on your prediction okay and if that turns

out to be the case then in the fullness of time jadey vance himself will turn out to be an

instrument absolutely optimistic forces because there's a lizard with him that's what we'll have

you know we're putting it making the you know planting the flag right now that's that's our predictions

well we're we're winding on the end with this one map you know we've went down the rabbit hole

up and down at several times with the conspiracies related to Charlie Kirk and I'm what they might

connect to i just want to point out something that we've often highlighted i'm researchers around

world to study conspiratorial ideation i've highlighted this as well that you don't just endorse

one conspiracy because when you apply these heuristics there actually isn't a reason to dismiss

all of the other ones so often if you don't endorse them it's because you just haven't heard the

explanation yet and like worked out oh yes that that also applies here so it's not like you have to

endorse them all but often they come together over time right and 9-11 conspiracies not right we

we saw Brett Weinstein up on stage talking about them you know an example of anti-vax

being related to 9-11 truth-fourism and it was in this as well so here's 9-11 getting the mj

shit who was the guy wasn't our guy that said he did it there was also a 9-11 or something oh

I call him decoy boy number one George Zen what the fuck is that so George Zen instantly gets up

says he did it his pants fall and people are recording him and it creates just a bit of a distraction

what I have on authority from the hospital that he went to after he he went to the hospital to get

treated for some mild injuries is that he told the nurses that he was paid to do it but he didn't

know where the money was coming from and this guy was also in New York when 9-11 happened I don't

know if he was in New York but he has he has some story about 9-11 some weird connection

some very weird connection yeah I know exactly what it is you can't remember good no you're correct

but that's what he told the nurses that day that he was paid to do that we didn't know who exactly

was paying him just that he was going to be paid for that yeah yeah so 9-11 is not the main focus

of this episode but it didn't talk about it a great deal but it's I think it's kind of part of

the shared assumptions the shared background of both of them yeah no these these demonic forces

I'm juice kill people and broad daylight they did JFK they did Charlie a whole history of false

flag attacks and that exchange there about George's in I mean neither of them seemed to know

what the connection might be but it's just very weird you know what was he was in New York on 9-11

thought was like Sean Ryan's girl was like that's weird isn't that like would that be weird

that someone left in New York and look is everybody that lived in New York during 9-11 you know

if anything else happens in their life that is connected it's kind of weird month that they were

in New York when that happened isn't it I'm just saying it's it's weird and you can see Candace

moves on like she's like you know I don't know but there is something weird there like there's

something weird anyway he said he was paid by someone so there's so many characters and figures you

know it's it's like a drama that's just this is just one conspiracy event right where there's

all these figures Tyler Robinson and George and then the doctor who treated Charlie at the hospital

and said something about the neck and the the backstage producer who wouldn't share the footage like

and so this is the kind of thing that if somebody unprepared was to challenge Candace Owens on this

event she would be able to immediately fire off you know as we saw at the start all these facts

that you unless you're really invested in it you won't know the figures that they're mentioning

or hire fun the appetizers for what they clean them yeah I mean if you were to try to argue with

Candace Owens about a conspiracy you would be like arguing with a complete nerd about warhammer

that 40k law on some you know precise question about would such and such happen right you are

coming to a gun fight with a knife because all the facts and you know but this is again speaks to

just you know we can take this as a little um a teachable moment in terms of you know perennial

fast um aspects of conspiracy theories which is that they don't only have like a paranoid and

an emotional appeal to it they also have a cognitive appeal to it because they there is so much

detail and connections and law attached to them the sort of uh yeah joy and satisfaction that

someone can take in endlessly researching a topic like this assassination of Kirk or 911 or

anything the incredible number of personages and factoids and connections and the personal drama

that is involved there it is like uh watching uh you know the old fashioned soap tv where there is

this this incredible melodrama happening with so many interesting little details to it so um yeah

I think he's got like a tiny little taste of it there just how it how it it crews it almost a huge

body of law which just grows almost naturally yes and and speaking of that Matt as you mentioned

there's there's like a massive amount of information that's at hand but as we've seen throughout this

episode it all connects into these these broader conspiratorial myths and lore that exist and

this is an example of her connecting things back to the cult of course the Jews were always there

like they're just pervading obviously and yeah there are obviously there but this is actually

a conspiracy related to Sigmund Freud and so when stars howlywood stars have been screaming and

trying to tell you that something is wrong and that they suddenly wake up to the back of their

in a prison the first thing that happens is another layer of the onion comes out and calls them crazy

that's how that works they say this person's having an emotional breakdown they diagnose the people

and the reason for that is because it was a that strategy of modern psychology was developed by

Sigmund Freud who was a Satanist full stop he was into Jewish mysticism the occult

sebacean frankism and he began gaslighting kids who actually were being raised by their parents in

Vienna that is the true story of Sigmund Freud there's a book on it by the man who controlled his

archives called the assault on truth this is a book written by a Jewish man so there's no anti-semitism

in this book and he worked under anafroyed and was due to become the next director of a Sigmund

Freud archives so he was a fan of psychology he believed in Sigmund Freud's theory which was that

kids are attracted to their parents wacky and then he learned to speak German so that he could read

Sigmund Freud's notes and his letters that the public has never seen and he realized that Sigmund

Freud was a complete fraud and he rang the alarm on it and said he knew he literally saw

and knew that these kids were being abused that these kids were being raped in some cases in

Vienna they were being raped and murdered in such satanic vicious occult you know ceremonies

that they died and he would then go to the morgue he observed their injuries he knew it was real

and he lied because he was protecting his pedophile friends and so they developed Sigmund Freud's

contribution to society is gaslighting he created gaslighting so you can draw a direct line from

Sigmund Freud to Hollywood to modern propaganda yeah another another nice example of a huge fan

of Sigmund Freud myself speaking is so cold it's but I think some of that way to bit far but

well let's do it perhaps we do you want a debunk it perhaps we should just let it go well I'll just

I'll just mention these are the kind of things that I think land her credibility that book that she's

talking about is real and it does make most of the accusations that she's making it doesn't actually

say Sigmund Freud was covering for his friends it says like he refused to accept the level of abuse

that would be implicated if childhood trauma was actually based on abuse the prevalence of abuse

he couldn't accept that so he came up with the notion that it was about like the adipus complex

and so on right and the book has been critiqued right called it the question people have read

notes that suggest that no he wasn't just protecting his one for you he really did not believe

like he thought his explanation was right and so on but but so she is talking about a real book

that caused a real controversy that did a ledge that Freud was done claim the level of her

abuse in children but not like to protect his friends that's a bit that she's out of there but

yes so you know if you went and worked at PD and you look up the book you will see it's there

right and you will be like we so she's talking about like a real thing and this was a you know

controversy it's somebody alleged but it's not tried in you know you heard the satanic panic thing

right that there's a cult there's there's the sedum worship and all those kind of things are like

she knows the deep lore in the way that you talked about the warhammer 40k guy you know they know

all the extended codexes that have been released and and so on so she's picked up these

factoids and and you heard the kind of connecting of the points right you can move from this book

to this accusation that can you Westmead and Michael Jackson said something against like

Jewish people before and then you can move to Nye right with the Epstein so they're they're always

just connecting you know the lines and we heard it for a completely different vibe on that

mat you remember Blind Boy doing this same kind of thing where he reached into history and he starts

picking out these these things that happened in history and then connecting them to his his own

conspiracy left wing leaning conspiracy theories yeah yeah no good good summary there good summary

there I mean like she started off with the just just mentioning that Sigmund Freud was into Jewish

mysticism and also his sadness right it's not any symmetric right just again it just happens to be

that the that's a Jewish stuff was connected to Satanism and you know adds in on like as you said

there is often that there's always perhaps there is nuggets of truth there are some real things that

can be referenced some file some report some book but then so much stuff gets added in and the stuff

that's really exciting the stuff about children being ritually murdered and Freud expecting their

bodies and covering for pedophile friends and they go on and on the whole and then that tie

into the satanic is obviously all that sounds like the satanic panic ritual murder and also the

blood libel stuff that is the perennial stuff about Jews that's all injected and layered on top of

it so the other interesting thing about it is that her angle on it which is that the Freudian

psychoanalysis and psychology in general like any kind of clinical diagnosis is actually a way of

of gaslighting people and making you think that you're the crazy person so any psychological

analysis like for instance like what we're doing at the moment is gaslighting so that becomes part

of the conspiracy so any kind of any kind of critique of what people like her are saying is you know

using the techniques of child raping and murdering pedophiles so it's yeah yeah you know like

this is how conspiracy theorists work it's it's kind of amazing really well it isn't it interesting

you know just when we're talking about parallels that you have like professor Zhang also ultimately

ties things into occult Jewish mysticism right this is one of the final levels in his

conspiracy tower and on the other hand a completely different figure Stefan Mollenieu often brings up

child pedophilia and you know reappe and so on whenever he wants to talk about his opponents some

the kind of things that they're they're interested in and dealing with and all those kind of stuff so

there's like a limited number of techniques and Candace Owens is making use of them all liberally

and and Sean himself really goes along with this didn't he have a story about some IDF guy who was

luring 12-year-olds to be packaged up and sent back to Israel and yeah like like anyway um so if

if Chris and I seem to be going on about anti-Jewish and Israeli conspiracies a lot it's not because

we're massive fans of the state of Israel or I have a particular interest in the area it is just

a pure fact that since the middle ages conspiracy theories have been largely connected to the Jews

it is just that this is a well-known established fact in the field of well in the subset of psychology

that that studies conspiracy theories yeah it's I actually don't fully understand why I mean

I know that all conspiracy theories have that tendency to interconnect and I can see how Jewish people

because of the historical nature of in you know Christian Europe and so on would so easily

fit the conspiratorial mold it is still curious to me that that they are linked to virtually

every conspiracy theory on the planet it's kind of remarkable don't you think yeah yeah it's

it's quite something so you know there you have it that's her and I think that we can

we can leave her conspiratorial melange there right we've went down the various tree

and tracks of her particular conspiracies or the ones that occupy her at the minute they'll be more

and how they connect into the broader freedoms but having done so you know what's what you're you

got any final thoughts big takeaways on on Candace Owens what did she you're gonna subscribe

big takes big thoughts well yeah like as I said I came into this knowing like only having seen

like little short clips of Candace Owens which would be like a little 10 second thing of her

usually saying something outrageous sounding a fair bit like Alex Jones and so I didn't so I

I didn't it wasn't looking forward to this episode I didn't think it would be very interesting

so I'd like to explain some things that tend to be more interesting than I would have guessed

from the point of view of our little show because Candace Owens is or was far more charismatic than

I'd expected and she is incredibly competent and skillful and I guess she's very smart at

at how she does things the conspiracy theory stuff is familiar the sort of purity spiral stuff where

Candace and so it friends are the the purist and the best and the kind of creating a cottage

industry I suppose in attacking fellow travelers on the hard right I guess makes sense and is an

interesting political dynamic at the moment so I think that's probably that's probably what I

gleaned from it she just a very effective operator and I didn't realize how yeah I guess it

makes sense I mean there's a reason why she's so popular because she's she has this brand and she's

she's good at what she does yeah for me the meantick away is just that like you said she she is like

very skilled in a way at her particular genre of conspiracy output right and untying it into

polemical political stuff so there's that she's good at that and and it kind of speaks to her

ascendancy within the like podcasting ecosystem or you know just general media ecosystems that she

went from a youtuber to turning point USA communication director to being pushed by preeger to

working for the daily wire as a star platform they're not growing it and now she's you know on her

own being promoted and and having like one of those popular podcasts and her ascendancy through

that is accompanied by as we've heard in the clips this tendency to overexaggerate her accomplishments

like she actually has you know very significant accomplishments but it's still important to

her to present herself as like the head of the intern closet at Vogue or device president of the

administration at an 18 person company and that to me highlights that this kind of

guru DNA that we often talk about the grievance prone personality narcissistic tendencies the attraction

the conspiracy theories that you see them all in her she has the same kinds of tendencies that you

see in other girls whose delivery is different and you know who lack some of her other particular

features so that was striking to me is just that so many of the features that we note in other

characters who in other ways are quite distinct from her show up and one mat that I just gonna

play a clip I forgot I wanted to mention was that we often have called out that people

that become gurus show this concern with their finalos and their numbers and how many people

listen to this high viral that went and when she was talking about her youtube success she said

something very like that so listen to this I launched my youtube channel in the fall of no in

august of 2000 and 17 right I think is why I launched my youtube channel as red pill black and

just started when BLM stuff was heating up I sort of was making funny videos on youtube and they

started they did pretty well it would get a hundred thousand views here which is great for a new

content creator yeah no kidding and I did this little funny skit mom dad on a conservative which I

wrote my cousin who I was telling you was the person that was with me the most when I was really sick

I was just kind of coming out of that she recorded it I wrote it and we just shot it and it did

pretty well and then I think it was like the third video I did there's an account online at no

if you're familiar with anomaly he lifted the video and it was me discussing um black lives matter

I think it was and he put it on to facebook and it got 26 million views 26 million views

to me it went absolutely viral and that's your third video yeah it's interesting isn't it like

there are these little tells and you know we're sort of like they're quite superficial ones and

you know they're not each one by itself isn't perfectly diagnostic or anything but those little

things like like the needless inflation of aspects of your CV which no normal person would do

is is like a tell for the self-aggrandizement which obviously permeated everything that came

to someone's said in this interview and that example there this this obsession with the metrics

at which obviously measure attention at also yeah income also be an indicator which we've seen in

so many of our of our gurus and just reminded me Chris how it's just it was just it's so rich

that kind of like attacking turning point or attacking these other competitors if you like

for being grifters in using Charlie Kirk's assassination for their own purposes it's just so rich

coming from kids so it's it's obviously it's obviously doing that for four hours at the

is doing that continuously at the moment oh yeah and and they're always positioning themselves

including you know figures like Alex Jones who are in the next breath moving to sell bone growth

that they're like motivated by the most purest you know their motives are all because of their

spiritual journey and all that kind of thing and it's it's so clearly not that or at least that's

not the only thing that's going on yeah well moral grandstanding right it's on the ground the

effort of reason a so I think yeah well we can we can edit here but I'll encourage people to

hey subscribe actually I read this real I still encourage people to subscribe

it'll be interesting to do the crom it at grommet is what I'm saying because I I wouldn't have

expected Candace to have dinged so many of those aspects of the grommet but now I think about it

I think she's going to get a very high score yeah yeah I agreed and and just to mention if you

want to there's like now a little online thing on the website where we host episodes where you can

you can enter the grommet or score the gurus yourself and compare them through our sports so if you

were so interested to do that the link is in the show notes so go forth and do that and the last

point I'll make map before we wrap up is just that there you highlighted earlier that this kind of

tendency to leap onto controversies and there you were talking about you know feuds and that kind of

thing and here you heard her talking about that was during black lives matter and she also was involved

with deemerge it right and she's involved with Charlie Curtis as a nation she had the bridge of my

chrome thing she is like somebody who's just constantly moving you know to the next controversy the

next thing that's getting attention online I'm peddling conspiracy and we've seen this pattern you

know Brett Weinstein did it right he's anti-vaccine then moves on through the next conspiracy after that

and it's it's a never ending cycle where they have to keep creating and focusing on whatever the

popular topic is totally great and I think maybe one day we should do a special episode where we

maybe trace back through the history of selected gurus like through their timeline and show how they've

in fact done that over the course of the great many years and in some cases completely changing

their stance or position in the great scheme because they've attached themselves tactically to the

thing that is hot right now and if they can inject themselves into the drama in some way as canter

someone's obviously was you know it was partly for true it is but injected herself you know like

the black lives matter thing she could she could speak out as someone who was kind of the victim

oh the BLM type activism just like Brett Weinstein managed to inject himself into the you know

the early ever to fight that that's right yeah he that was for his origin story yeah as part of

his origin story Eric Weinstein of course you know it doesn't matter what he's talking about

but could be you if it could be something else but he always darkly hints about how he himself

is actually a part of all all all um it's it's indeed of course his whole life Jeffrey Epstein was there in

michelle it's so funny so um that would be a fun thing to do sometime I think just to trace that

yeah yeah well there we go so Candace Owens um we hardly knew ye and and yet can't wait to get away

from you but i can't just know it's i'm never gonna watch another for it but we knew again

i know enough i know enough but i will say you know she there is that that kind of interesting aspect

that even with all the things we pointed out we're clearly not big fans she is one of the people

that we've covered that comes across into personally just never vibe as like personable right she's

a lot less kneels on the chalkboard than you know like scar items or someone like that so yeah and

obviously we haven't mentioned that much because such things don't matter to us but she's very

attractive right she's very attractive woman and i'm sure that uh helps that yeah that's important

to mention because it plays a part in that overall charismatic effect that she has and as he said

i i kind of expected to suffer through yeah this three four hours of we did suffer

and we did we did on a deep spiritual level we did but but like he said she's actually very easy

to listen to like the comparator say trigonometry listening to the trigger yeah oh my gosh

and and that's she's she's just so slick and that's just so interesting um so yeah

nevertheless i'm not gonna we don't want to do it again um that's enough thank you very much

yeah never say never but yeah yeah not for now anyway well okay Matt so that's that's her done

the co-dinger's done we'll do the grometer leader but we gotta get gotta get shardite smart

i know you're always saying don't shardite the playoffs they don't deserve it uh but i

i i i say no Matt no we don't need to recognize the people that support us um this is me on the

pens i guess to hate our petriots thank you thank you Chris and uh you know i asked the the

listeners who haven't perceived shardites on the patreon to give me their names so i could

shardite the overlooked Matt those who've you know they've contributed they've played their part

and we've never acknowledged them neither once okay they like the fallen soldiers the unlined soldiers

there's a grave specifically for the unnamed fallen heroes that's who we're talking about now

we will name well we will so you know unlike those unnamed soldiers who we didn't get the names

fortunately there's the live so we could go and we could ask them you know tell us tell us

who you are what tier you're on i saw them they didn't fall the instructions they didn't

mention their tier so they'll go into their own little category right we'll we'll laugh

in but i'm just saying um you know you didn't mention your tier and you get assigned to the wrong

one is that my fault okay good this is i think we're undermining our attempts to shout out our

patreon's but um let's let's try again ignore all that and let's do this also there's some of the

my stolen valor that have actually received shardites but they want to hear their neem again so

that's by having i feel like i've kind of a poise to

the names who you're about to hear some of these people made stealing the valor

they know exactly

getting a separate shout out how dare they how very day they know who they are and let's see

their own con if they are in conscience can uh you deal with that well okay so here we go the

conspiracy hypothesizers who you know have fallen through the cracks they include the vertelige

waiting since 2021

but the vertelige um so thank you bear and not a reference to the publisher

no it's double i double i double thank you for your patience i mean they have mostly one of the

first ones are very first patreon's and o g and never never eat it on the ground for

never received a shout out that's how we were good job gris good job yeah by the way this

this is just your episodes over this is Chris's department this is his responsibility

correct yeah so he's he's let you down and i'll give him a good talk you to after we stop recording

thanks sparrow thanks sparrow good name may have received the shout out before and who can say

dean of caffeine dean of caffeine who believes they've never received from they're not sure but they

believe that okay uh per car rouges engrave that's somebody that's a person pyro spider who is

long suffering listener they hit gurus but they like the analysis so that's that's nice

another good handle by the way pyro spider like that one i do like that as well yeah tapio

um loyal listener pride conspiracy hypothesizer we find them

oley d um they they mentioned that they have many theories my and they all lead to the conclusion

that science is feeling so that's that's oley d um reading in the wings and no my science

no you can you can check your school my science is fine the rest of them could be failing i'm doing

fine thank you very much n i c c a f nicaf nicaf um that's another one monica b and they might recognize

from the patreon yeah yeah i recognize monica too thank you monica yeah martin johnson i think you

who mentioned they are low level member since before the tears names changed and they can't

remember what fear they're in night so there you go it's uh yeah another grand pool and a good

strong name to mart johnson that's that's someone i trust to um work at nasa or something like that

i find Benjamin Warner you like that name strong name Benjamin Warner it's uh yeah it's another

good name i mean yeah it sounds like an american name i'm gonna go out of the limb

ban holand uh uh i found low currently in japan they might meet me in person if he's lucky but long

long time conspiracy happens i had some important point to mention here it's another good name i

like ban holand yeah yeah i like that too you better like them all it just goes with what say in

about doesn't say he liked them all okay uh if i don't say i like your name well you could draw

your own inferences well i'm not sure i like the ones that are hard for you to pronounce because

i have to listen to you struggle through it struggle them yeah calamari uh that's not a low

chap i know cala well you know that that could that could be someone that could be someone i know

it could just be coincidence but i uh yes i i've i've i've been very close terms with a certain

calamari well thank you calum regardless of whether you know my or not thank you um from me

because without saying that i like the name obviously yeah that does okay so those are the conspiracy

high-professors okay so here you go i feel like there was a conference that none of us were

invited to that came to some very strong conclusions and they've all circulated this list of correct

answers i wasn't at this conference this kind of shit makes me think man it's almost like someone

is being paid like when when you hear these george sorrows stories well he's trying to destroy the

country from within we are not going to advance conspiracy theories we will advance conspiracy

hypotheses okay we've been here a few of those had a few of those today we did all right that's

right okay so we're at the revolutionary geniuses ma here we go philip pala somebody who deserves

right ignition along with all our important dialogueos drifters as they say

i like it very good eric cogero a good name and interesting one and going by the

username dan lu cogero so there you go oh dan lu cogero so do you think do you think truly

Japanese or it could be stolen valor again could could could is it a matter of cultural appropriation

or just somebody of japanese descent that's also possible to say in your being

to be clear either way i'm fine with it i think i don't mind but i like the name i like cogero

cogero okay we have coldries long time the spotter i recognize that you all know thank you

cogero yeah fraud lords havatom oh

for all the holy holy havatom well oh my god kris has done another crime against the

the lawx you're the only people that you're allowed to be culturally insensitive to and make fun

of their silly names and their silly language but uh you guys are doing fine i'm gonna say

you said all that but he said he was looking forward to the attempt to pronounce his name so

there you go i enjoyed it it was it you did not disappoint kris well done well done

we have volume soup who considers themselves a polemicist iconoclast in training

i think that's pretty good oh i like that polemicist slash iconoclast

selecting an importer slash exporter yeah i'd like to

uh tom march bank who has been a revolutionary genius since the beginning ma but said

it's no big deal that they've been missed that's the kind of a stupidity like

you guys right because you know for the people for him it wasn't big deal they gone now kris

they gone because he didn't shout them out and yeah we've got the khanersharki also somebody from

northern Ireland so oh good on him khanersharki in born in the same place as me that's a that's a

that's a on-brand name khanersharki it is he could be in picky blinders get khanersharki to pick him

out get khanersharki pick him out that's a real hard case khaners on the other kind of person we want

in the patreon like is that the kind of people we want to be a fit of recruiters yeah so

it would be in picky blinders yeah we want them we better they're on our side so khanersharki

keep on joining yeah we need the muscle that's right we do we do and we have rees van der

warden which i think i pronounce fine they just said lol as they're called okay cool so they've

just got an inherently funny name you didn't add any hilarity to it it was just it's just

baseline funny so good job by a bit of that name as well it's great name yeah kitty moron

or kiri moron no it's moron it's probably moron moron yeah i just said some people told me

i pronounced killing moron or moron wrong like i did it in an on-the-hersharki i'm just very scared

probably done it wrong yeah well now you know how i feel every time i try to pronounce

natures natures yeah there's a lot of lot of lot of gatekeeping a lot of purity monitoring a lot of

policing of how people say things but Chris that was that that's another good Irish name and you

know what moron is also the name of one of my favorite books by Samuel Beckett good to mention

i'm glad i know about i'm sure kitty is as well not in the chat box in this same cast

of thing there is a name can you pronounce that name for me uh no account

it sounds like the name of a really obscure Byzantine emperor

and if you were to say that i'd lowered what would you say uh

vasilele vasilele oh very that's pretty good vasilele yeah so um i got mad to do that because

i would have fucked it up but revolutionary genius since 2020 format that and yeah interesting

username um jesse m alloy i feel like m alloy is kind of an Irish name isn't that oh my god

i think that's a that's that's that's actually i got my i got my wise cross actually before so maran

is not a book by Samuel Beckett i still is one of my favorite books which is exaggerating a little bit

m alloy that's actually well i'll be right up there i've been saved i've been saved by a bacheron

so i really love this name because um it helped me recover from putting my foot in it

m alloy that's that's the book by Beckett oh i as it's good it's it's it's good freezing because you've

got like three books in the royal Irish last names there's there's there's what there's but there's

there's what are they now it's killing me i need to know he's got like a trilogy of books and they

all have similar Irish names starting with m oh no maran is the name he's the name he's the

character in m alloy you can see how confusing this is wow you didn't get it wrong that is

this name around the book the book is called m alloy the character is called maran and he's got two

other books which have similar last name called with the title similar last name starting with m

and i realize that this is terrible terrible podcasting but i need to get this straight

before we sign off you can you can find out why i continue to show you night nims um so

i'll mention emes if you know i say Beckett wrote a book called emes you know the perfect trilogy for

it but um yes i eme i appreciate you having a name that i can pronounce will provide any problem

so that's that's good um Murphy Murphy Chris that's the other one Murphy Murphy a lawyer also the

name of a book cup isn't really there you go that's your contribution to that to the culture

you talk about some real back

mention you all that's not the last set of up the book cup the better you forever you watch

the like 20 trippy version and we're like oh they're facts we're really good on you movies

so oh my god yeah that's it well no i'm gonna put the people who didn't say their tear

in here because i don't have a special audio for them right and i don't know where they are

so i'm not gonna put them over the galaxy brains you're gonna put them in here even the fine

know that they are galaxy brains because i'm punishing them for not staying at

and this tear is called miscellaneous just miscellaneous that's what you're gonna get it.

that's what you are yeah so in miscellaneous we have a miscellaneous Irish woman living in

Australia who has already been shot at i but wanted the pet or shardite um oh my god that that

sums up what she's like but i just like to see you prefer right it's just like tiring just like

i referred to your once as a mille which they learned over the Irish people will understand but

that wasn't i wasn't meaning in a bad sense i was just one i was joking around but but then we

looked up and found out that like there is a reading of mille where you can present that does like a

heroic working class person and that's exactly what i meant Kelly and i said that.

oh there you go Kelly that's right Kelly now Kelly Kelly Kelly is a great Australian Irish fan

too by the way connected to a certain famous family. I'm connected to a certain rather famous

uh Australian Irish family by the name of Kelly so i won't say who they are but some Australians

might know of it um so i like Kelly i'm all for it. Kelly we thank you for your services to the

discourse yeah now Elisa someone deserving of a shardite this is Brad Bick or extraordinary or

plus or bouncing queen like that's what she deserves a shardite. She does deserve a shardite and

she knows this but it is just a true fact that i am in awe of her baking and i have um failed so

many times doing things like croissants that um when i see the things that she posts it feels

me with envy and uh you know it makes me a little bit angry frankly one time you know me too

she's so good of it she's angry and actually one time she even put dtg into the Brad like it was our

our initials were there or the podcast initials but so Elisa you deserved a shardite you should have

had one earlier sorry for that but now you get it you kind of like the polar opposite of Kelly

both good both both of these opposites uh yeah mostly yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

the dog went so hard with both of them you know on one hand great baker on the other hand

fills this with she's the orange yeah let's say let's say well Cameron buff i like that name

that's it's it's a name and potentially an object to describe being nobody that's it or it could be

a certain Cameron buff um that's great be and it's just to be clear it's spelled B-U-F-F

that's right AJ AJ pretty good initials yeah yep yep or says the intended name was the letters

OR but it was pronounced OR appears to be the corrected version um great okay the intended name was OR

but it was pronounced OR or oh yeah it's so awesome what was the same

oh gosh i'm trying to get my own notes in order here okay okay all right well thank you to

o dot uh dot but just like a dot j dot you're not giving as much to work with you

yeah maybe maybe AJ was orange like maybe we said it wrong and it was orange

like yeah yeah um god jay swissle that's another person um the that's a fun name anything with swissle

when it got to fun there pretty good yeah they apparently solving endlessly but every read just

reading to hear and then now not again but now you're there you know it's there and you feel

distit your level so you know good job thank you nonetheless um Stephen Cromwell oh

hand me in which strikes fear Chris is Chris is shaking at the moment i'm not sure whether it's

through fear or anger but he will Cromwell now you think about the other Cromwell the other Cromwell

what's your new look Cromwell you see all the Cromwell was there another Cromwell Thomas Cromwell

courtier and um administrator for king Henry VIII fantastic BBC miniseries about it based on the

series of books um and i've forgotten what they're called or the author's name but i've read them

and they're really good i recommend both the books and the BBC series so we it was the Cromwell who

did all the bad stuff in Ireland was he not the royalist Cromwell who defended the king was

at different Cromwell that different Cromwell so yeah i knew that totally different yeah

yeah so so Thomas Cromwell is the is the administrator probably changed sort of the high law

and privy seal whatever whatever they were in that fascinating period of the early modern

essentially um we had bureaucrats like him from of low birth actually kind of running the country

because they'll better at it than the um the vandered aristocrats and he eventually got his head cut

off by well Henry Henry I just because that's how that's how Henry VIII rolled he was a proper bastard

that guy um and the um then of the tv series and the first book in the series is wolf hole

books by Hillary Nantel oh i say well you think probably good one of those Cromwells before they

had their heads chopped off they produced offspring and Stephen Cromwell is the descendant probably

off of that the proud descendant of of the good Cromwell not the bad one that never

said we never won the good one yeah that's right and we have Carlito Carlito that's another

whoa that's not the same but Carlito's way Carlito's way like and what what about this one theory

conspiracist uh clever name theory conspiracist i see i see i think what he's done there

yeah sure he's done there yeah trixi pretty good um brosel brosel they are unsure

now there's a couple of peach on southern russles and there's one that's involved with the

psychedelic research i i feel like we should it them i but maybe not but if it is that brosel

you deserve a shot at if it's not that brosel anyway you deserve a shot at and if you're a different

brosel who you know hasn't contributed yet i'm shoddy do you i tell you all russles and you're all

included that's good include the wall that's right three and one yeah rufus Evans ma rufus

Evans as well rufus i like that three that's a good name is that no fussy very old fashion name

isn't it rufus i guess uh a little bit nagging as well but um anyway revolution of genius and

unspecified here's your audio thank you i'm usually running i don't know 70 or 90 distinct

paradigms simultaneously all the time and it is not to try to collapse them down to a single master

paradigm um someone who's a true polymath i'm all over the place but my main claim to fame if you'd

like an academia is that i founded the field of evolutionary consumption now that's just a gas

and and it could easily be wrong but it it also could not be wrong the fact that it's even plausible

is stunning speaking of um you know feathering ones uh cv founding the field of evolutionary

consumption evolution because of she's not a field it is a topic and most of the papers on that

topic written by gatsy ed itself yeah what's surprising i'm surprising well matnoi they come

don't the galaxy bring gurus the highest here who have never been shredded or

maybe okay or you for that matter but but this is the most this is the most wronged out of all

these the ones the most yeah this is right and uh these include some names you'll recognize

ma alen malcom mcferson a chap you recognize right yeah he he is right did the gala of

which uh it could be you know that they there were there was but there's it could be chrisis

organization one of them the dusk and gala they have they have long tentacles and you do not know

into what um regions they penetrate and could could well have gotten to chris you know they got to

trump they got to trump they could have gotten to chris you think chris you think chris you think

nobody can be gotten to they can get to chris they can get to chris yeah just give me enough sweet coffee

i'll send your tune no i next one a double one okay so one we got us shodide sujit acula who

oh very sujit yeah long-time patreon attendee of the live hangouts and active participant

yeah great helpful guy in general but when i ventrack it so sujit you deserve your shodide you're

fully getting it but this ma is this a light he asked for a shodide directed at someone that

maybe they're not even a patreon i don't think they're a patreon there's just someone that

listen is that alive is that allowed i'd let me consult the um trepid tone

what is the manual where's our press policy your procedure is document

uh we don't have one so i guess you're allowed to do it no lie sujit has earned it he's earned it

and now he but he did describe it as a non non-consensual shodide so this person doesn't know

we should have that but and if they've listened this long the shodide i think they deserve it like

i guess i just feel like we're on we're in tetra's territory here because this is an unauthorized

non-consensual shodide to be clear yeah but it's okay it's okay because the name is kahol

kahol right that's who we're showing not kahol we're not giving a shodide name i don't mind

the shodide name there wasn't a lot of the access to it because it's non-consensual so we're

showing that kahol and i'll mention that one my brother's dog's name is kahol so that's

our connection there and i had a friend at school who was called kahol so it could be him

and he became like a evangelical Christian so see what a kahol i was imagining kahol it's about

k-a-m-i-l which sounded vaguely Indian to me but it's kahol kahol

not kahol kahol it says like you're clearing it says like you're clearing your throat

that's it i love that name kahol so there you go kahol thank you for reading the list now

and the brother in lord the surjit thank him you should thank him the next time we see him

yeah yeah jessie rimmler now i met jessie another patreon contributor in terms of the chat and stuff but

i'll also mention he has a book out a graphic novel that recently came out and he was doing

thing to her it's called stay that's it it looks very nice so he didn't ask for this and

it's like there's a dog that looks a little bit like snowy and it's his debut graphic novel i

2026 field mice press so yeah jessie deserves it and it looks cool oh oh i'll just pull it up it does

look cool i like the i like the style yeah i know yeah jessie's a nice guy a little bit more left

than us but that's okay you could join the point here trying to be a little bit more left it's

alive i'll just mention it in your shodide and we will we will promote your book your art your

whatever it is as long as you don't ask for it if you ask for it yeah that's the cut that's it that's

okay next my kiri kavena but she spelled kavena wrong

thought of a song oh it's not good to see yeah that's look all kavenas are valid Chris

or kavanas we know they're not especially not the ones with the you and their name they're

definitely not valid but they're the sea captains are like the lesser branch you know you got

you like in Japan you have your mean branch family you have their offshoots the sea calvners

yeah their calvners but you know i gotta see you guys are sitting there in your little stone castle

on the the wind swept more and there in the little the little cottages down the lane the hovels

down the lane they're the ones still keeping the room for the fairies that's what they're doing

they're like still in that era where there's where i see you know in our modern castle yeah they're

beyond the pile and you're not i get it i get it well look i will have none of this kavanas shaming

onto kodanikuru's wrist put away your petty prejudices they're all valid well thank you

uh jenny somebody uh oh who deserves it again uh and apparently has never received it

i'm suspicious i feel like i have but in any case jenny you deserve it so thank you

did deserve you for it was ever second one if even if there has been a first one but

like can anyone be absolutely sure have you have you listened to every single with the end of every

episode how can you know with certainty that he's never been shared about on suspicious yeah that's

right that's right and um no uh speaking of wich she was also someone called dr marty mccolley

who says or fellow westie which means west you know west belfastie person and or and

may have previously been called martin possibly as a best pronunciation that's actually true because

my mom used to work with a doctor called marty mccolley so i would have shared a jirat

as marty mccolley because of the familiarity so sorry about that but there is a no-no doctor we're

very similar near and i i feel but uh yeah that's yeah well that's really that's really on them i think

if they want to pronounce correctly then have a distinct name that doesn't sound like any

other name otherwise what's kris going to do it's going to happen exactly especially one i've

encountered in my life in some respect right um we've got julie mart julie julie

no thank you i was gonna happen and you know it's gonna happen i love that song i love that song and

and pull one up dolly part and pull one up for dolly part i love your questions yeah well i

she actually i did know that julie said she didn't receive a side note but then she

noted she did receive it in the jimmy car episode so she doesn't need one but this is how we

broke but we give them well no no no no we should retract it then i'll retract it yeah take me back

sorry yeah just sit on the last shout out retracted that's not yeah but this one my this one is deserved

ashmall ashmall so high ashmall has never been shattered out isn't it like it's always the

come on come on it's just true it's always a fantastic thing he said he doesn't think

but that means he doesn't move he has a check yeah he can't say he's sure no yeah but he does

deserve one if he was if he was a truly if he was a truly loyal listener he would have he would know

because he would have reached the very end every single episode and he would know for a fact that

he hadn't been shown that so once again i think you're in the clear Chris this is all on the

patreon's there on him it is on him and offered emotional support when i was planning my

statistics score so thank you ashmall yens mullahorge who is also known as yens dal mullahorge okay

i'm not sure what to do with that information they actually requested their for the empa

i just noticed that the era i tried to like their username first so that's why they didn't say

duple at my just did that for them say that say that last day one more time i need to do that when i

copy and paste that and the there you go that's that just say this or name okay i don't know what to

do with an author that's got a across to it line in that yeah that infects you with them yeah i

guess i'd say mullahorge mullahorge mullahorge yeah what would you do with that with that special

low maybe it's passed you know you know we don't know uh okay you exotic you know we have no truck

it's like by the way is that name it is scandanaevee again isn't it that's always a problem

on for us the scandanaeveeans we're pretty big in scandanaevee at times like so i quite like that

i i i desperately want to go to scandanaevee i want to go well i want to go to all the countries

i've got colleagues in Finland and yeah i don't have colleagues in Norway but i would want to go there

anyway and Sweden would be nice too and i told that the cities are kind of to the to the

less sophisticated visitor than might seem a little bit boring but to someone like me i think i

would like it a lot i'd like it much more than marimo aris or one den yeah they're frif you know

what hasn't that's for the common rafra we like refined cities that are accused of being boring

i'm told and maybe one of our scandanaevee listens can can clear this up i'm told it's very

difficult to make friends that the people are polite and friendly but but they won't let you in

to the not for me although people said that about Australians as well that we're very superficial

and friendly but it's impossible to make friends and i'd be really popular i already made friends

from bags for us so they go i kind of frieche yeah yeah i lived with Finnish people and they were

very friendly i know you didn't mention them as but i'm just saying you know that's that's the thing

i think i think Finnish people are included in that general swear against scandanaevee

in terms of the reservantness oh i had a Dutch friend as well i'm a guy so they go

and Dutch people are a couple less stuff yeah seemingly rude

every people they find that part of the car changed but i didn't notice that so they go

right i got to say i worked with a Dutch couple who with um who fit the stereotype

well they were just they were just they were just difficult just difficult i don't know

the the man in particular was just huge so we fit the stereotype in our respect

there's just a giant of a man and both very good looking that he um he sort of went from zero

and it was a good guy like this is the thing i could i know a good guy good how did

it go he was he was his heart was in the right place but he would go from zero to incandescent

yelling and it would it in ten seconds five seconds and it was some you know it's scary yeah

yeah all right well like african is this scary too we have a lot of this right yeah nothing

they were on with that not does anything wrong with that that sort of thing um lily locked her back

beadwork extraordinaire from Jackson why am we they go ma galaxy breathe since the beginning since

the beginning since time started they were galaxy breathe and yet they've suffered

only to be sure to die in 2026 but here we are it wasn't worth it uh and yeah

what a what a great place to come from too why i mean i uh i think i think yeah i

i visited and it was good big sky maybe yeah exactly exactly excaution

in colorado and stay like that they're kind of they're epic epic places okay um canisterian

who admitted that they're easily distracted so they could have been shot but i'll tell you canny

you haven't been because i would have remembered canny stream as a new and uh yeah my son is called can

so there you go good choice yeah and i do call him canny from time to time you know yeah don't do that

canny what are you doing canny you know what my son does not i'm sure canny stream doesn't do this

you know maybe does my son has developed the ability to uh climb walls by like putting his feet

against you know like in a gap where he can put his feet and touch both walls and then like go up

the walls uh yes and yeah it's it's wow wow so if you can do that canny stream congratulations

but if not you're not as good as my son uh i presume is an adult now in his wall climbing days are behind him

but um oh my god i'm sorry my majesty can you yeah but you've got nooks and crevices to hold on to

you can't just climb any wall but i can't climb a shitter wall no not like this my my poke would

pull me down yeah but but sometimes you walk into the room and he's just like up in the corner

like a vampire you know my death but also suppose to be able to make the

he has his own screws off yeah so that's it by them uh well uh uh carer are we're almost done

my carer are not received one sorry carer um but again in the law does not think does not think

okay okay well carer is a nice name is it i'll just the initial carer i yeah hope so

yeah i hope so she's just he's not the artist formerly known as uh no no she she has carer are

and and like Joseph Sutcliffe who also says he hasn't heard his but the word in here is very

important because they they don't think they've received they haven't heard doesn't mean it didn't

happen okay that's what we need to get in the carer and just like exactly that's right none of

these claims would stand up in a court of law i'm just just what i make that clear oh so also

also people mentioned my but didn't directly request shout outs so i'm gonna pick these guys

in the galaxy orientate they were in the the commentary but they didn't did they directly or did

they not it's unclear right these include brink i think brink falls into the category of more

left than us but allied in the patreon so let's very there we go thank you brink good good

commenter Nancy Hall or sorry Nancy heo who who has been shouted out and is a patreon member

deserving of a shout out right yes um yep yep so if you keep you keep mentioning the left

wingers do we have any known right wingers right wingers oh no they're not alive then I like

i mean nose one or two it could be secret it could be secret conservatives here to

afraid no they're all right wingers it's fine you can be a right winger yeah we did work too yeah

yeah just welcome yeah you don't have to be the Candace Owens kind you know don't show the

no they're not like me Candace Owens why people not like not not allowed but otherwise many

find people any fun people on all sides the right wingers keep more than themselves but no

so far so far so far so yeah in any case you know i'm just having my phone that

idan ka idan sa a patreon contributor fine fellow who didn't request a a shout out but but

deserves one so is it even is it even or a down or you don't oh shit it sounds like the

the second one you said they're idan that sounds more likely okay yeah it's your name where would

that name come from do you think he's real what perhaps part of the world okay it's real i'm not

just saying that because of the Candace Owens have a very very sure that's the end of it

but um yeah so yeah i'm sure we're sorry that all would be at the Israeli Jewish conspiracy theories

we've had to apologize on behalf of all all Christians everywhere that's right oh wow Christians

yeah why not i'll say i'm not a Catholic it's it's mainly the Christians come on let's be on yeah

oh actually also also members of other religions i suppose actually everyone okay everyone everyone

I'm going to apologize for Candace Owens and Elias Bajaland who specifically said they don't

need recognition because supporting the show is simply they're right but nonetheless you have

received recognition and Elias yeah that's right that's right it's the people that don't want it

the people don't expect it they're the ones who deserve it the most that's why we do what we do

that's why this segment exists that's what is it's subjected to half an hour of me Chris talking

out of sight well these people had a lot longer we i feel like this is you know this is making

up this isn't many ways like a special segment where we're giving special shout outs that have been

missed that's what we're doing yes that's right it is special right you all get this every episode okay

that's just to get online don't worry don't worry yeah you can always you can always turn it off you

don't have to listen to the ends you know if you don't have to turn it off at any point and but not

before hearing Karen get a shout out Karen from the patreon who has good posters and all and has

received shout outs before she didn't request one ma I'm just showing her right again I often say

that spiritually she seems like she's from the UK but that's not an insult when I say I mean the

good parts of that the the dark humor but she's actually has American and Canadian flags in her

profile so I think from that what you will that's nice that's that's that's a lovely gesture that

I have both American in this time of strife yeah I think having the both there's like an olive

branch being passed across the northern frontier yeah yeah well done Karen's not responsible for

the Trump administration it's been a lot of time yeah last two people mentioned but unfortunately

when I was just getting this document together their thing was hidden by the auto moderation so I

don't know what they said and there is so probably something rude or something the auto moderator

considered rude and I'm glad there's Matthew coming in and Karen mirror so they're they did

something math they might have made a joke they might have you know we're not saying they said

anything very bad I'm just saying auto moderator was active yeah that's not it push the boundaries

they push the boundaries of the auto moderation system yeah they got what was coming to them well

I'm definitely very curious now very curious but you know you don't want to stuck on the

Canadian American thing that that Trump is because amongst amongst all of Trump's crazy

nonsense which with crimes which I know which of which is not even the most egregious but

it's just got to be thinking like I just want to imagine an Australian Prime Minister like

just starting the New Zealand was his oh picking the New Zealand no one enemy yeah we got to get

New Zealand take them out we got to invade New Zealand and take it over as a story is what I

stayed oh it's just how can anybody take that seriously I know I know I know okay well anyway that's

all we've covered them all night and I'm gonna play the galaxy brim thing but one of the people

requested that we play the old one so I've even dug out the old one okay what a guy what a guy

look at that let's look how Chris takes care of you look at that all right let's say oh

you got one too I've completely forgotten what it's like well let's see I forget to so here we go

we tried to warn people yeah like what was coming how it was going to come in the fact that it was

everywhere and in everything considering me tribal just doesn't make any sense I have no

try I'm an exile think again sunshine yeah oh that's that that's what I was doing that's

that that first quote from the sovereign nations guy I think it was yeah yeah that was not another

good illustration of that conspiratorial thing oh yeah yeah yeah it's all was coming it's in there

and it's in everything and this is all encompassing you know omni theory of badness that did you

saw coming first it's this they they just they shouldn't make it so easy for us Chris I mean we're

professional decoders they should give us a challenge well in that case I always remember his

little thing where he went on the bug the different years of him like 2020 me talking to 20

me we're tell 2015 me that he doesn't believe he had them all I was it's deadly serious

the way it was so ridiculous like such a stupid they're all they're all take themselves

deadly serious you are still stuck in the fog of cognitive dissonance somewhere between 2017 you

and early 2020 you and ladies and gentlemen it is time to snap out of it

you've probably figured out that I have been 2021 me publicly for about seven years now

going way back 2021 has been my marker

it's when I knew that things would drastically change I knew that 2020 would lead up to it

but I knew that 2021 was the target privately to specific leaders and friends I have been 20 30 me

for at least five to six years that is why dr. James white is saying the things that he is saying

right now especially on twitter and on his podcast about them there you go now if you made it here

really congratulations thank you do all the long-term patreon users who you know support us in

various ways emotionally financially and and elsewise and yeah and and anyone else that made it

as far you too can get a shot after many years by subscribing to the the patreon and otherwise

we'll see you back for another decoding soon enough yeah I mean we joke around but I generally do

appreciate it because like yeah you know we don't do advertising and stuff like that so

yeah the patreon's your your rate when it comes to keep in the good ship dtg

sailing forward floating yeah that's right yeah I flew

that's really a bit of a thing

sailing forward floating which never right here imagine it twirling twirling you always twirling

she was greatness yeah yeah um all right well I'll see you later mom

are