‘Lanterns’ Season 1 Finale Instant Reactions, Plus a Talk With Chris Mundy | The Midnight Boys

2026-10-05 02:00:00 • 2:05:25

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Welcome into the ring of verse.

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This is of course the ringer's Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom.

2:11

We are Steve, the architect almond, the builder and tinker of things.

2:14

Jomi, the explainer, Adina Rohn.

2:15

You've got questions.

2:16

She's got answers.

2:17

Old man van.

2:18

He of the resurgent guy, gardener, hairline.

2:22

Co-baby chucked the 24-care closes together.

2:25

We are known as, have a midnight boys.

2:27

I'm going to be right back after this.

2:42

All right, follow us on socials at the midnight boys pod on Insta, the TikTok at ringer

2:49

verse on Insta Twitter, Facebook and TikTok.

2:54

You know what I mean?

2:55

You know guys, we're really excited.

2:56

I mean, I just want to thank you guys for following us through this Greenland recovery.

3:01

You guys have been really incredible to see what you guys are saying online.

3:06

Man, you guys are amazing.

3:07

You guys need to get off our nuts.

3:08

Clip in the podcast and all that stuff.

3:11

Sharing it, sharing it, man.

3:13

What is going on?

3:14

What happened?

3:15

What I miss?

3:16

Oh, you're not on Twitter anymore.

3:17

No, wow.

3:18

I'm not on Twitter anymore.

3:19

It's bad.

3:20

Why?

3:21

They took part of the conversation with Vanessa and Justin.

3:25

Like this, it should be the Kamala Biden conversation.

3:29

Oh, yeah, I put that in the group chat.

3:32

Yeah, what they say.

3:33

I didn't see it.

3:34

It's bad.

3:35

Who's going crazy?

3:36

You know, the Twitter sphere.

3:38

They took, you know, I'm saying that right wing section of the online, where they like

3:41

these people with me.

3:42

Yeah.

3:43

So our Dicks.

3:44

That's you know what I'm saying?

3:45

Yeah.

3:46

And Justin are on the show.

3:48

And they're great.

3:49

They're awesome.

3:50

Phenomenal writers who are a part of one of the best superhero shows to come out in

3:55

a long time.

3:56

And you're not.

3:57

Let them talk about what is going on.

3:58

You don't have to be a cook.

3:59

You can have your opinion.

4:00

But the talk city will be met with commiserate disrespect.

4:04

Yes.

4:05

Any talk city will be met with that thing on a disrespect.

4:07

When are you coming back to Twitter?

4:09

I'm never coming back.

4:10

Are you off the Reds too?

4:11

Um, basically, yeah.

4:12

Okay.

4:13

Never.

4:14

That was a very short stand on threads.

4:15

Look, I might go there every once in a while to like post about tailgate or something like

4:19

that.

4:20

But I cannot live in constant reactivity.

4:24

I have to be able to think and formulate things that like are building.

4:28

So I can't continuously be on anything to where somebody says something and immediately

4:34

triggers an emotion in my body.

4:36

Can't do it anymore.

4:37

So like I understand that like being a part of the conversation on there and the news breaking

4:41

on there is still bar none.

4:43

Okay.

4:44

I'm not trying to be like holer than now.

4:45

And just for me period, living my entire life in the state of reactivity makes me less

4:50

curious.

4:52

And it makes me more like think about me going on already and leaving long ass things

4:57

talking to the people that's there ready.

4:59

So like for me, I don't need to be in that space.

5:01

Like I don't, I don't.

5:02

I don't.

5:03

I fucking love this.

5:04

This is John Stewart leaving the lantern in.

5:08

Yeah.

5:09

You like Bluska?

5:10

You want Bluski?

5:11

No, I mean, look, you might see me pop up on these things to promote something and get

5:14

to lay at the land, but like being online like that, I got too much shit that I want to

5:19

accomplish.

5:20

Well, you too, like comment subscribe share.

5:22

You can watch every midnight boys and house of our episode on YouTube dot com backslash

5:26

at ring of hers.

5:27

Thank you.

5:28

Like Jummy said to everybody that's running the YouTube going crazy.

5:31

That's amazing.

5:32

We're going to keep that going by continuing the feed the beast on YouTube.

5:36

Programmer reminders.

5:37

A Monday house of our finishes.

5:39

They're deep dive lanterns coverage.

5:40

They have been absolutely phenomenal.

5:43

There's a lot of show that lanterns gives us and our sisters over there are doing a fantastic

5:49

job at contextualizing all of it.

5:51

On Friday, Budmash covers Valor Mortis and forever ago.

5:59

Steve?

6:00

Yeah, Valor Mortis.

6:01

I think that's a that's a soul's like game.

6:04

And forever ago, that's like a it's an indie road trip.

6:07

You don't know the game.

6:08

I don't know.

6:09

I don't know.

6:10

He said, I'm saying like 80 game.

6:13

He said souls like I'm like, I'm as putting me to work.

6:15

You like 20 games.

6:17

You lie and bro.

6:18

Like, oh, but no, he right though.

6:20

Valor Mortis is a souls like action.

6:22

What souls like?

6:23

Souls like it's like, are you familiar with dark souls?

6:26

No.

6:27

No, all right.

6:28

Well, it's a very like difficult action adventure game.

6:31

What is it?

6:32

It's it's like a very hard game where they kind of like they just stole you in there and

6:37

you have to kind of like learn by yourself.

6:39

Like it's like Elden Ring before.

6:42

Okay.

6:43

You know, Elden Ring.

6:44

I was like, you die.

6:45

You're all of your stuff resets and you got to go out and get more stuff.

6:46

Yeah.

6:47

Elden Ring though, for the time that I got into like Elden Ring, there was Elden Ring,

6:51

but there was a different one though.

6:53

There was a game that came out and it's I'm telling you guys I played the game, but I

6:57

could not.

6:58

I can't remember the name of the game now.

6:59

I had to play it for cybernet.

7:01

Okay.

7:02

And it was a game like Elden Ring.

7:05

What was it called?

7:06

Skyrim.

7:07

I don't think it was Skyrim.

7:09

Elder Scrolls.

7:10

Elder Scrolls.

7:11

So it was Skyrim.

7:12

Elder Scrolls Oblivion.

7:13

Oblivion now.

7:14

Yeah.

7:15

Classic.

7:16

Yes.

7:17

Elder Scrolls Oblivion.

7:18

And like I kind of got into.

7:19

Oh, that's just Oblivion.

7:20

That's just great.

7:21

That's great.

7:22

That's for y'all.

7:23

Y'all got it.

7:24

Maybe my cent trails and my yellow markets.

7:26

Blue, green paint game right there.

7:27

Give me my yellow paint, bro.

7:29

All right.

7:30

New York Comic Con update.

7:31

Who?

7:32

Update.

7:33

Motherfuckers.

7:34

We will be hosting a meetup in New York.

7:35

It is Saturday, October 10th at 8 p.m.

7:38

Mm-hmm.

7:39

Okay.

7:40

I head to Hill Country and go downstairs to the bar.

7:44

Okay.

7:45

Listen, I'll say that again.

7:46

Head to Hill Country.

7:48

Hill Country BBQ.

7:49

Hill Country BBQ.

7:50

And go downstairs to the boot bar to find us.

7:53

Yeah.

7:54

The bar.

7:55

No badge needed.

7:56

No.

7:57

If you are a bad teacher, you need it, guys.

7:58

New York Comic Con.

7:59

Come to our panel at the Javasinnah.

8:00

That is on Saturday, October 10th at 4.30 p.m.

8:03

Okay.

8:04

And then later on, go to Hill Country BBQ and go to the boot bar.

8:09

Come see us, man.

8:10

Boys with the boot bar.

8:11

And y'all better, y'all better act right, you know.

8:13

We're not having no San Diego shenanigans.

8:15

Right.

8:16

Hopefully that guy don't got a new guy list.

8:18

I mean, you might need to just put me on the ground.

8:20

It's the same, guys.

8:21

It's one guy.

8:22

You can't come.

8:23

But if you in New York, if you in Philadelphia,

8:25

if you in Baltimore, if you in DC,

8:27

if you in Jersey, come through, come see your people.

8:30

Come hang on.

8:31

Come hang on with us, bro.

8:32

Yeah, man.

8:33

I don't know what y'all see that.

8:34

I mean, in Comic Con next year.

8:35

No.

8:36

We got.

8:37

No.

8:38

No.

8:39

No.

8:40

We will.

8:41

We will.

8:42

No, he going to be at the raft.

8:43

Bill Reef or something like that.

8:44

You can't contain him.

8:46

Arcom.

8:47

We just got out.

8:48

You can imagine getting parole from Arcom.

8:50

No.

8:51

Because here's the.

8:52

Arcom is only for like the worst super criminals.

8:54

Yeah.

8:55

Also.

8:56

There's.

8:57

I got.

8:58

Prison.

8:59

Prison breaks every other week.

9:00

So it's kind of like.

9:01

So it's kind of like, but like I feel like it that's like a the jet.

9:05

There's a gen pop in Arkham, right?

9:07

There's not a gen pop.

9:08

I don't know.

9:09

It's an insane asylum.

9:10

So I don't know.

9:11

But like there's not like they don't have like 50 jokers running around there.

9:14

They only have one.

9:15

They might.

9:16

Right.

9:17

They have.

9:18

There's another jail right.

9:19

Well, black gate.

9:20

Black gate is for like the, you know, the regular people.

9:22

You might be like one of the goons might be in black gate.

9:24

Yeah.

9:25

Right.

9:26

But the head guys you take a marker.

9:27

Yeah.

9:28

It's criminally insane people and also go to Arkham, but you're not like the Joker.

9:33

Nah, man.

9:34

I mean, you're not scared.

9:35

And it's not that man.

9:36

Not using an asylum missing out of prison.

9:38

Yeah.

9:39

So it's less people and more care.

9:42

Yeah.

9:43

Okay.

9:44

Like you said, it's as to black gate.

9:45

Are you sending him to our who?

9:47

Victors as he's an Arkham.

9:48

He's an Arkham.

9:49

And you're in Batman's Rogues gallery.

9:52

In Arkham.

9:53

In Arkham, but like Deadshot would be like Blacky.

9:56

Blacky.

9:57

But the thing is the problem with spec is specifically with Arkham, maybe breaking

10:02

out every week.

10:03

If Batman was real, want put your money over there.

10:06

Bruce Wayne, give him a couple of, couple of people.

10:07

Bruce Wayne, don't give a fuck about mental health.

10:09

Yeah.

10:10

Clearly not.

10:11

He's gonna care about his own.

10:12

Yeah.

10:13

Therapy could help him with what he's going through, but he chose not to.

10:15

All right.

10:16

Okay.

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All right.

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All today's episode.

12:46

I'll need a little tangent.

12:48

You guys, please come visit us in New York.

12:50

We're going to be there having a great time this next week.

12:52

But on today's episode, it was actually this week.

12:55

Actually, we leave it once this week.

12:58

Today's episode, we react to the season finale of lanterns.

13:03

There's been so much talk.

13:04

There's been so much speculation, so much discussion.

13:09

But now where are we?

13:11

The end of this season at least.

13:12

Got to get into it, give the streets what they want.

13:16

In order to do that, we have to spoil some shit.

13:19

We're going to get spoiled.

13:20

Everything's going to get spoiled.

13:21

Spoiling everything.

13:22

All right.

13:23

Steve, run a spoiler warning.

13:24

We're getting ready to talk about lanterns.

13:30

You're listening to a reaction podcast.

13:38

The spoilers are coming.

13:41

I would also like to say that stick around, because after our discussion, we are going

13:45

to have an interview that the four of us conducted with showrunner, executive producer,

13:51

and writer Chris Mundy.

13:52

Yeah.

13:53

Fun time.

13:54

Your boy creator and creator of Ozark.

13:56

Oh, here of Ozark.

13:57

Big deal.

13:58

Big deal.

13:59

You love Ozark.

14:00

Love Ozark.

14:01

But we still have to react to this in order to do that.

14:04

We need the midnight manifest.

14:05

The only person who can give you that is Chuck Wagon.

14:08

Chuck, take it away.

14:09

All right.

14:10

Did your midnight manifest for the season finale of lantern season one, dirt and

14:15

stars directed by Aleek Sakharov written by Chris Mundy, dim Lindowoff and Tom King.

14:21

The finale begins with the love story between Howling Carey, the sheriff picks Howling

14:24

up for prison and they begin their life together in Rushville.

14:26

Things take a turn for the worst when House House is attacked and he's burned alive.

14:30

Noah saves Howling rebuilt his skin using the same machine that his grandmother did on

14:33

John.

14:34

The star quarterback reveals how that he's a man hunter.

14:36

But demands the disgraced lantern not in form his mother that he's been aware all along.

14:41

Back in the present, Sinnesha reveals that Noah broke him out of prison.

14:43

John warden waterboards Sinnesha in the fear lake until the villain reveals that he made

14:48

a new lantern for the man hunter to use with House decommissioned ring.

14:52

John takes the lantern, but refuses to charge it fearful of any booby traps Sinnesha might

14:56

have laid into the cracked and yellowing lantern.

14:59

Noah ambitious John in Rushville and takes back the ring.

15:02

He had missed the killing Howl and asked John to help him with an assisted suicide before

15:06

his man hunter programming turns him into a genocidal weapon.

15:09

John doesn't believe him and forces Carey to admit that she was Howl's real murderer

15:12

when Howl confronts her about Noah.

15:15

She panicked and killed him.

15:16

Instead of turning Carey in, John says that's not what the real Howl would have wanted.

15:19

John calls Guy Garner and forms a green lantern that he'll be taking over the jurisdiction

15:23

of Earth while he can have the rest of the sector.

15:25

Howl Grim says he loves John before disappearing and Stewart finally charges his ring while

15:29

reciting a new oath that has been your midnight manifest for lanterns season finale, throwing

15:34

about to you, Van.

15:36

Judith finale that I thought was fantastic.

15:40

Okay.

15:41

I don't know what I expected from a finale.

15:42

Obviously, I expected to get answers about the remaining man hunters and wherever they

15:47

might be who killed Howl Jordan.

15:50

But I don't think that I thought the show would be able to successfully wrap up all of

15:54

its conclusions and storylines in such a accessible way.

16:01

There weren't very many moments in this show where I was like, Jesus Christ.

16:06

Yet, and still, it completely flowed.

16:09

It completely worked.

16:11

It all came together seamlessly and beautifully.

16:15

And to me, put the finishing touches on one of the greatest seasons of superhero television,

16:21

storytelling that I've ever seen.

16:23

So can I ask, because we've been doing this for a while, this finale kind of circumvents

16:32

our expectations of what a superhero show finale should be?

16:35

Absolutely.

16:36

Oh, yeah.

16:37

What are the finales since we've been doing this that have worked when they're bombastic

16:42

in that way, when it's a big shootout, when it's a big villain?

16:45

Because it's like, Loki.

16:46

Loki season one.

16:47

But that was just them talking, really.

16:50

That was the finale.

16:51

Yeah.

16:52

That wasn't a big, not a big fight.

16:55

Sometimes where they've had, they have gone big, you'd say, one of the reasons, which

16:59

is the weakest part of that season.

17:01

Yeah.

17:02

I would say talking to the winter soldier, that was the weakest part of that season.

17:05

I mean, they try to do the whole talking thing at the end, right, with him doing big

17:09

in the season.

17:10

Yeah, but you got the sue and then there was all the kung fu and all that shit.

17:13

And it wasn't the best part of that season.

17:14

Well, that's because this show avoids something, and we talk about the surf Dracula thing,

17:19

which this show kind of does, but this show avoids something that they'll show.

17:22

Those shows didn't.

17:24

This show, he gets the ring and then he flies away like at the end.

17:29

Yeah.

17:30

This was a Daredevil season one finale.

17:31

Well, even in Daredevil season one, you're right.

17:34

Well, he's got the, he's got a costume and he's fine with people.

17:37

And he fights, he fights.

17:39

There's the big showdown with Kingpin.

17:42

But that season, like this season is very much, if you had to boil it down to a sentence,

17:47

we are making this character turning him into Daredevil.

17:50

Right.

17:51

Like, oh, by the end of the episode, I was like, this was always Sean story.

17:55

This was never going to be the thing where John gets the right, because I can't lie.

18:00

Deep down in my heart, I wanted John to get the ring and get busy.

18:03

I wanted him to steal the ray from Noah, start slinging that shit around.

18:07

And they went for something that I think was.

18:11

I'll put you this way.

18:14

I ended up liking this season finale because Kyle Chandler and Aaron Pierre are so electric

18:20

and the chemistry is so much by the time they admit that they love each other.

18:25

I'm like, this is kind of what TV is for.

18:28

So, so I totally agree.

18:31

Let's think about what the purpose of the season was, like what type of hero they were trying

18:35

to make.

18:36

We're going to talk a little bit to Chris Mundy about this when he comes on at the end

18:40

of the show.

18:41

But with Daredevil, if we compare it just to that, because that is a finale that really

18:46

works even though they do the big fight thing.

18:48

Like that, he finally has the suit.

18:51

You have seen Daredevil throughout the entire season get cut, cut up the hand, cut them

18:56

all up and you're like, he's not going to be able to do what he's doing unless he adds

19:02

a couple of layers of protection onto him.

19:04

He's not going to be able to face off against King Pinin, all of this stuff unless he's

19:08

the fully formed Daredevil that we know him to be.

19:11

This story is about like what makes John a hero.

19:15

And when you think about it, what makes him a hero is breaking the programming that he

19:18

got, the programming, raising whatever you guys are going to go crazy in the comments

19:23

again.

19:24

I said what I said and I believe what I believe.

19:26

And even he believes it because him becoming a fully formed individual is what had to happen.

19:32

That is what made John Stuart.

19:33

He can already work the ring.

19:35

He worked the ring and made a big fucking drill episodes ago.

19:39

He can already do all of that stuff.

19:41

What he couldn't do was think for himself, make decisions for himself and worry about

19:47

only being a hero from his point of view.

19:51

And once everything happened in Rushville, everything happened to how he had to make decisions

19:56

on his own by himself.

19:59

That is what entitles him to be the Greenland on Earth.

20:02

And that is what is completely driven home and tied up with the bow at the end of this

20:07

season.

20:08

This is this was the first time that John didn't pull the trigger where since he was a kid,

20:17

he's always had a weapon in his hand and he always had to shoot the apple.

20:22

And it was interesting when he's talking to Noah and reveals that Zoe wanted a mercy

20:28

killing.

20:29

And like, I do think it was, it's a controversial choice.

20:32

I don't know if I fully like it, but story wise, it was satisfying to be like, oh, to

20:37

be the Green Lantern.

20:39

He has to do the one thing that how couldn't, which he's realized like, who am I without

20:43

this ring?

20:44

Who am I without this weapon?

20:46

And I thought it was very, very interesting that for John, he has to make the choice of

20:52

letting Noah live and being, because he sees himself in Noah and I was like, oh, that's

20:57

bad.

20:58

He has to trust and he has to also learn how to pick his battles to fight his fight, not

21:06

somebody else's fight, not how, not to be a good soldier for John Stewart is not now

21:13

nine months, mission critical, never leaving until that ends.

21:18

It's something disappointing.

21:19

It's the way he feels what he needs to do and what he thinks is right.

21:23

Yet he let the ball go, right?

21:25

John or how was incapable of letting the ball go?

21:28

It's what got him killed was that's that's Kerry's son.

21:33

She not just going to let you like mess around him and get him hurt or endanger himself

21:37

whatever.

21:38

Or John, he was, he realized like the Kerry don't want to, he don't want to do nothing bad.

21:43

Man, if I, if I leave him, I trust Kerry to make it work.

21:48

It's a done deal.

21:49

I walk away.

21:50

He let the ball go when how did, and it got how killed.

21:53

Here's the thing.

21:54

I am killing the kid though.

21:56

If I'm John, I'm like, hey, bro, I've seen Terminator.

22:00

I know how this goes.

22:01

Yeah, but I'm sure you're terminated with Terminator.

22:03

You got to do with this.

22:04

You mean, you've seen, I'm fucking killing machine.

22:07

Yeah, so it's a reverse.

22:09

But it's not, this is different though.

22:11

How is this different?

22:12

Well, I'll say, okay, number one, what, I mean, which version of Terminator we talking about?

22:15

Let's be precise.

22:16

I feel like this is T2.

22:17

He didn't look like one.

22:18

Okay, the liquid one is not.

22:19

That's not.

22:20

That's not a feeling he wasn't raised by no nice wife and it lead to one.

22:24

It's definitely T1.

22:25

If it is T2, you know who it is.

22:28

It's actually Schwarzenegger's character in T2.

22:32

Oh, it's him.

22:33

He had enough programming to end up being like a good father to John Stewart and stuff like

22:39

that.

22:40

And he had to make this decision at the end of it.

22:42

Another chip in his head.

22:43

He had to get in the liquid lava or whatever like that.

22:45

Yeah, it's very, I mean, my dad, we both did like that like when he did this very suddenly.

22:50

But like, to your point, I think there are going to be a lot of people who go, got to kill

22:55

a killer robot and got to put Karen in jail.

22:59

She killed a human being.

23:00

I was so wait, if we stay on Noah, we have to be real.

23:05

This little boy broke out the next show at that point.

23:07

I'm just like, you got a hot head right in your head.

23:11

I wasn't really breaking down how crafty you have to be.

23:15

So I'm giving John some bail here because the name of the game is anybody.

23:21

I mean, he mentioned it.

23:23

He could have called guy overpower guy took guys right?

23:26

He could have been dude done that.

23:28

You feel me?

23:29

I feel like he's like, look, if anybody going to take out Noah, it's got to be me.

23:33

I'm the only one who could talk to him.

23:34

I'm the only one who can see where he sees.

23:37

That's why at the end of the day, he's like, yeah, give me the ring.

23:39

I'm a charge that thing because like, I'm a take earth because if guys show up with the

23:44

man hunter, it's not going to go well.

23:46

I'm the only one that I trust to deal with this man hunter business.

23:51

If it does indeed come back, what happens if Noah gets a little freaky and now we got

23:56

a bunch of fucking man hunter children running around fucking earth.

24:00

Well, he said that that's going to be his problem later.

24:02

He's a man hunter children.

24:03

He's a man.

24:04

He's a man.

24:05

He's half.

24:06

So like now, I mean, the man hunter vibes, they just go down the biracial man hunter.

24:09

Just get diluted by you know, I know how it goes back.

24:11

Yeah, I know how you get a quote.

24:13

I'm going to put them on the man hunter list.

24:14

She knows the certain, you know, the man hunter list.

24:19

But no, so, you know, this is a chance.

24:22

And that's another thing like John operated with such certainty.

24:26

And other aspects of his life, he almost had to be certain in order to do stuff, right?

24:31

This is uncertain.

24:33

The only thing that he knows is that he wants to try to be a green lantern under his own

24:38

rules.

24:39

Everything else, he's kind of taking a chance.

24:41

You're taking a chance by letting Kerry go.

24:43

You're taking a chance.

24:44

You're like, Kerry go.

24:45

That was, I mean, again, who cares?

24:49

Like this, no, I'm serious.

24:51

Like the town don't care.

24:52

Town town.

24:53

Town town.

24:54

Like how?

24:55

How's dead?

24:56

The only people who knew how's dead are Kerry, John, Noah, the town and what's his name

25:01

and Carol Ferris.

25:02

Yeah.

25:03

That's it.

25:04

No, but he's going to have a conversation with how like, hey, how?

25:07

Now killing him, like she didn't need that was an act of passion.

25:10

I think that was like the weirdest part of episode to me because I, because I had to watch

25:15

a couple of times because I get why she would kill him like in that moment.

25:20

But to be driven like that, but I can't even like that.

25:22

Just to be like, one pop.

25:23

I was like, dang.

25:24

She just seemed very stressed and then just innately shocked.

25:27

That's your guy.

25:28

I thought they would talk about us some more or something like that.

25:30

Yeah.

25:31

Or he'd have an ultimatum or something.

25:32

Yeah.

25:33

That scene was interesting because she has been trying to protect Noah for his entire

25:37

life, right?

25:39

Against people knowing and everything that's going on.

25:42

And John, it is, excuse me, how?

25:46

It is in how's directive, in how's makeup to want to take him out.

25:52

So the question is, who was going to act in that situation?

25:56

But also he, I want to shoot House and Bale.

26:00

He saw what happened to Rushville.

26:02

He saw what happened when you let a man hunter gain too much power.

26:06

So there is a part of me where I'm like, it's not like how could have easily called up

26:11

John or a guy and be like, did it?

26:14

There's a man hunter.

26:15

He tried to do it in a different way.

26:17

And that's, maybe that's what got him killed.

26:19

He knows how dangerous man hunters are, period, not just Rushville, but in terms of like

26:25

the kind of havoc that they wreak wherever they go.

26:28

So for him, it was always going to be existential.

26:31

For her, it is existential.

26:34

And she, at this point, you know, when you think about it normally in this entire show,

26:38

how already always has a trick up his sleeve.

26:41

He can always, his gut always lets him know that something is going to happen or somebody's

26:45

not what they're going to do or what they think they're going to do or what they're

26:49

really thinking.

26:50

And at this point, I don't think he knew she was capable of that.

26:52

No.

26:53

I think that he didn't think that his gut, maybe the one time that betrayed him.

26:57

He did pick him up out the pen.

26:59

That's some, that's the trick.

27:01

Draco's his book bag.

27:03

Tried to got a little kid back.

27:06

Do you think Zoe, I was like, was always fucking around a little bit.

27:13

It did this on purpose because Kerry was acting like it was an accident.

27:17

I'm like, it though, it seemed like Zoe purposefully put a man under it.

27:23

I mean, she definitely knew.

27:25

Yeah.

27:26

So yeah, it probably was.

27:27

But Kerry didn't say it.

27:28

Like did I am I misremembering?

27:30

No, well, Kerry, I mean, it's immaculate conception, right?

27:34

The Bay, basically, Jesus, right?

27:37

She had a big name.

27:38

You filled other people and they didn't end up pregnant.

27:40

That's what I'm saying, right?

27:42

It literally, who was she, who else was she with?

27:44

She was no nobody.

27:45

She got pregnant, hadn't been with anybody in a while.

27:48

Right.

27:49

So yeah, no, I'm okay.

27:50

But she was in the, she was in the, like, this is what I don't get.

27:53

You were in the fucking machine that gave you your finger back and you just pop out with

27:59

a baby.

28:00

Zoe definitely was like typing in a like, but baby, like, maybe because she couldn't have,

28:05

she couldn't have kids with a old dude.

28:07

Right.

28:08

And at that point, she would have indoctrinated.

28:09

It would be like, you will be the vessel of carrying on the, I'm wondering more so

28:14

why, because at the end, first of all, I was like, Billy, why are you fucking out here?

28:18

How you like, what did Billy know?

28:20

Billy was just like, Billy, I think was an instrument and a tool for the writers to

28:25

throw us off.

28:26

Probably.

28:27

Because Billy does not have a lot of utility in this show, but he's always there.

28:31

Like, what is Billy doing?

28:32

Why Billy's popping in, Billy's popping out.

28:35

Billy was a way to throw us off.

28:36

You know, early on, me having the wherewithal and the genius.

28:41

Right.

28:42

I'm just shuffling.

28:43

I'm just shuffling.

28:44

But like, when you, if you had that feeling, the other characters around Noah were the

28:50

ones that were going to kind of distract you a little bit from the fact that it seemed

28:54

like Zoe took extra special care of her grandson that, for whatever reason, she had the same

29:02

type of bond.

29:03

It didn't seem like it was a step-grandmom, but they did not look like each other.

29:07

So there was some stuff that was going on.

29:09

There was always a lot of mysteries surrounding the kid and then it ended up being the

29:12

kid.

29:13

How do you feel like that was actually reconciled?

29:16

The fact that it was Noah all the time.

29:18

Do you feel like it was too obvious at a certain point?

29:22

I think it was very odd.

29:23

I think there was a reason why we were like, you got to keep Noah on the board.

29:27

And when it was finally revealed, it made story sense.

29:32

But there was a little bit of me was like, this is very convenient.

29:36

Like it, part of me is like, oh, the show felt like it was missing a big bad because the

29:42

mystery kind of kept moving.

29:44

And that's I think where I was like, oh, this was a muted season finale because everything

29:50

that John was fighting is an internal battle.

29:52

Like it was it an external thing.

29:54

I was like, oh, he's going to start slugging the ring at the football game.

29:57

I'm like, oh, no, that's the disorienting thing about this season because we're built

30:03

around this being centered around a big bad and that ended up being Zoe.

30:07

And then once we got the 2026 timeline, we're kind of respawn into disarray with even

30:13

the big bad though, because there are people.

30:15

I don't know.

30:16

I don't know.

30:17

John being like, she wanted me to kill her because she did not want to repeat the same

30:20

genocidal act she did on the other alien.

30:22

I agree.

30:23

Like, I don't think so.

30:24

And so that's why I'm like really interested to see like what the reception is to this episode

30:28

because there is no big CG.

30:29

We say like we don't want to CGI bars battle.

30:32

Then we don't get one.

30:33

We kind of feel like, huh?

30:34

Oh, interesting.

30:35

I think this episode does a really good job of like ending the show, like threading the

30:40

ink any of the threads of these characters in a way that feels fulfilling, even though

30:44

there's again no big CGI boss fight.

30:46

But even as I'm watching episode, I'm like, once like Noah puts the ring down and he

30:51

gives it back to John, like, oh, they really not going to fight.

30:54

Yeah.

30:55

Okay.

30:56

We'll see how they do it.

30:57

And I think they did it well.

30:58

But I'm interested to see.

30:59

Now this is the end.

31:00

There was an ending of a Naruto episode, you know, friendship solved everything.

31:02

Well, I'm going to be real like I think this is kind of sometimes my frustration with

31:09

us because like not just us.

31:13

I mean, us as a fan, right?

31:15

Oh, right.

31:16

Not just us, but us as a fan base.

31:18

So if you have a big bad, you have to have the CGI fight.

31:22

Yeah.

31:23

Sure.

31:24

You have to have it.

31:25

If you do something more nuanced, then you don't get the big CGI fight.

31:29

What you get is characters like resolving story, which is essentially what makes great

31:35

television.

31:37

We sometimes cannot be satisfied to John.

31:40

It's point is like if there is a big bad, if we ended up having a, if Sinistro is pulling

31:46

the strings of how all it is and then we get a big Sinistro fight.

31:48

Well, does everything have to end in a big CGI fight?

31:51

Well, no, it doesn't.

31:52

There's another way to do it, which is the way that they did it.

31:54

While it is definitely muted, I think it's interesting to explore a world where you

32:01

don't have to have the fight where the characters have learned to like solve these conflicts

32:09

in a different way.

32:10

Yeah.

32:11

And so I think that that's actually for me, not just satisfying, but it was almost liberating.

32:19

Yeah.

32:20

It was liberating to know that it can go away.

32:21

I mean, but also if we think about it, the reason why, even if this was in my favorite

32:27

episode of the season, the reason why the season as a whole to me is a success is that

32:33

we got Obi-Wan.

32:34

We got, and like we got everything that we said we wanted and we were still bitching.

32:39

And I think a lot of times with like the superhero or sci-fi shows, we were talking to Mundi,

32:45

we've talked to Justin and Vanessa about it.

32:48

To me, it's more interesting to have the Green Lantern be something that not only is

32:53

hard to use, but feels special.

32:56

It feels like a lightsaber where it's like the minute you have a thousand lightsabers,

32:59

the minute people are back flipping, like, oh, this feels a little less, yeah, it feels

33:04

yet a little less special.

33:06

And with this show, I was like, the Green Lantern ring still feels like something you can

33:10

earn.

33:11

It still feels like something that not just anybody can wield.

33:14

And we know that John is going to be in Man of Tomorrow.

33:17

We're going to get John flying around and doing all of the big stuff.

33:21

Is that actually what you want to see on TV?

33:24

Because usually it's not done well just because the bunches can't be what they need to be

33:28

to make it look how we want it to look.

33:31

And what I can do well is wrap up that story.

33:33

I think the one, like, even less so than that, I think the one, like, slight gripe that

33:37

I would have had with this episode is that like there was a lot of very, very fast table

33:42

setting in the beginning of this episode only to get us to that end.

33:46

I think like when Sinestro has to explain, like, second and third hand to how a Graham

33:51

and John, what how did with Noah to set up what we're going to eventually get to?

33:58

I was like, oh, okay, that's like a little feels a little rushed and only just to use

34:03

Sinestro for that purpose is odd.

34:05

But then again, we're back on track.

34:06

I think that if to get that scene in the car where him and Noah are resolving those things

34:11

are is all worth it because that was one of my favorite scenes in the entire season.

34:16

Yeah.

34:17

I guess.

34:18

I don't know.

34:19

I don't mind like Sinestro needed a utility, right?

34:22

Sure.

34:23

So like who broke him out?

34:25

Why?

34:26

He did that in the episode three, right?

34:27

He's always like thinking about Sinestro.

34:28

He's telling the straight.

34:29

He could be and it could be bullshit.

34:31

He could be lying.

34:32

He could manipulate his how he meant.

34:33

How many times did he tell how you got to kill?

34:35

You got to kill John.

34:37

You got to kill the kid.

34:38

Oh, yeah.

34:39

He's always trying to move stuff at the table.

34:41

I was going to say he's bad at it.

34:42

He's actually not because he actually did influence how and like the first and the first,

34:45

but he didn't get John in this one, right?

34:48

I think like Sinestro's utility was used pretty well in this episode.

34:51

But I do like that conversation with Noah and John and the conversation that John has

34:58

with Kerry.

34:59

You guys are like, man, should have should have turned Kerry in man.

35:02

I don't know man.

35:03

She was being a mother, man.

35:05

Yeah.

35:06

You know, at the end of the carry is a fucking murderer.

35:09

Yeah, she killed how it's tough, man.

35:10

We all make mistakes, right?

35:12

She feels guilty.

35:13

She going to live with the rest of her life.

35:15

It's always different when a white woman kills somebody.

35:18

People like act differently.

35:19

Let it be.

35:20

Let it would have been like Latisha or somebody like that that killed the slammer.

35:27

Okay.

35:28

It would have been slam.

35:29

Crink.

35:30

Slammer.

35:31

Fox News.

35:32

News in 11.

35:35

I'm not killing black winch.

35:37

Like goes crazy in Nebraska.

35:39

Filming it like today on Hannity.

35:42

This was the Zach Fox.

35:43

This was the Zach Fox.

35:44

Like, it was all hung in at the end.

35:47

Billy was like, oh.

35:49

And by the way, by the way, shout out to Kerry, man.

35:52

Kerry looks at him like I guess I'll turn myself.

35:54

You know he wouldn't go turn you in.

35:55

He wasn't going to turn it.

35:56

He like, he knows like, it's not what I want it.

35:58

Telling you, bro, sometimes as brothers, we go, we go further for these white ladies

36:02

then we do fall on since we got a man.

36:05

We got to make sure this was a episode.

36:09

They healing because John, he's just like, hey, yo, Kerry, I forgive you.

36:14

He walks through his own house.

36:15

Okay.

36:16

Everybody.

36:17

Everybody who was mad at us.

36:19

How do you know that his brother was a rapper?

36:21

How do you know his brother was a rapper?

36:23

That nigga had all the fun.

36:24

How do we know his brother was rapper?

36:25

He said it.

36:26

Oh no, he could have been a singer.

36:27

Is what?

36:28

Yeah.

36:29

Oh, okay.

36:30

That nigga look like a rapper.

36:31

What do you want?

36:32

To me, look, give me the R&B.

36:35

Can we talk about, it could be a, it could be R&B.

36:37

It could be Afro beats.

36:39

Niggas is rappers now.

36:40

I don't know what to tell you.

36:42

Not even what it's like to treat or so shit like that.

36:45

It could have been me.

36:46

He would have been a bad man.

36:47

You know what?

36:48

He would have been a rapper.

36:49

The brother is a classically trained opera singer.

36:51

That's what he's doing.

36:52

He's putting out five.

36:53

It's the three tenors featuring him.

36:55

So look, how do you feel like this episode attacked or addressed?

37:02

The love story between Carrie and how, that kind of preceded all of the stuff that happens

37:11

in this episode.

37:12

We go back to 2016, how get out of jail.

37:15

I'm definitely allergic to this wig.

37:17

How get out of jail, right?

37:19

And then we get to see a little bit of how they came to have feelings for each other.

37:24

How well was that executed for you?

37:25

I think it was executed very well.

37:28

The diddler seed was hilarious to me though, because I was a little bit like, come on,

37:33

you are ruined in everybody's Friday night.

37:36

If this man don't kill a dozen people, fuck you in your garlic.

37:41

Okay.

37:42

I would have been like, I feel what you're saying, my brother died.

37:46

Yeah.

37:47

So I'm missing a leg.

37:48

Carrie was essentially like get over it.

37:49

Get over it.

37:50

But you know what?

37:51

Shout out to the people.

37:52

They wouldn't have a nice shit.

37:54

You traded here.

37:55

They traded here.

37:56

They traded him exactly like they would have treated John.

38:00

If John's family would have moved into the neighborhood.

38:02

Oh god.

38:03

Yeah.

38:04

1913.

38:05

1913, at least 1960, maybe even 1975.

38:08

No, this was remembered.

38:09

It's like, hey, yo, fuck you.

38:12

You're back to where you came from.

38:15

They pooped on his front lawn.

38:16

Yeah.

38:17

Pooped on his front lawn.

38:18

But then I'm talking about the fire bombing.

38:20

The fire bomb was like civil right.

38:22

That's why I said, that's evil.

38:24

No, it wasn't just one.

38:26

It was like get angry.

38:27

You go, what?

38:28

Yeah.

38:29

Check it every window burnt up everything.

38:31

No thought or regard for Earl, which by the way, who's not.

38:34

That was our brain.

38:35

That was crazy.

38:36

Wait, was that wait?

38:37

Was Earl okay?

38:38

By the way, no.

38:39

Yeah.

38:40

Yeah.

38:41

Oh yeah.

38:42

He said, oh, John's parents.

38:43

John not shit because he dropped Earl off with his parents.

38:44

And then it's left.

38:45

He's like, yo, take care of Earl.

38:46

Yeah, I got him.

38:47

And then come back.

38:48

Okay, hugs.

38:49

Yeah.

38:50

So, but I thought that they kind of got us into their relationship and made us really

38:56

kind of believe that these two people that was always some sort of attraction have found

39:00

something special in each other, particularly after Rushville was obliterated.

39:04

Oh, yeah.

39:05

The scene in the, the scene in the bed was really touching when, you know, she like,

39:08

don't look at me.

39:09

He's like, no, come to the game.

39:11

I'm like, wait, I gotta call a foul on that play as well.

39:14

But now this your son, this is game, whatever, I'm not trying to see you bring your new man

39:24

into my fucking game, who don't killed

39:27

39:27

39:27

No, no, no, no, no, it's not about the game.

39:30

It's not about you all.

39:31

This is about me.

39:32

No, no, no, no, no, come on, come on, man, you know, it went out and out like that.

39:35

No, you know, you don't have them same hands.

39:36

He's a man.

39:37

Now, this is baby boy, like you know, I keep going like that would be funny baby boy, baby boy,

39:42

grab them and blend River, you lick this head.

39:46

Nick Nick Nick Nick Nick Nick Nick Nick Nick Nick Nick Nick Nick Nick Nick Nick Nick

39:54

39:54

39:54

39:54

39:54

39:54

39:54

39:54

39:54

39:54

the bra.

39:55

I have a recent piece, John Singleton, big up being Rames and Tyres.

40:00

I remember being in the movie theater when he walks away and then he, ah, youngster,

40:06

then he walks back and he grabs them up.

40:08

I'm like, oh, she didn't get in trouble.

40:10

He's taking fun.

40:11

Like, V. Rames was crazy.

40:12

I remember that.

40:13

I remember it was going crazy.

40:14

It was hitting himself.

40:15

V. Boy's one of my favorite movies all the time.

40:17

Baby Boy is dramatic, man.

40:19

Baby Boy was, uh, if they do a no one's been off of a baby boy's personality.

40:23

I've been off with Noah.

40:24

I will watch that shit.

40:25

Like, when Noah is the trouble key because one day Noah, how can you raise a man under

40:30

the, what if you tell Noah, a Noah, I don't the fuck you, man.

40:33

You want me to take over this whole bitch?

40:34

Wait, when did Noah learn that he was a man, huh, too?

40:37

I think I really told him because Kerry was under the impression that he didn't know for

40:41

a while.

40:42

When, right?

40:43

Literally.

40:44

No, she, when she's talking to how she's like, yo, like she tries to play it off and he's

40:50

like, no, he knows what he is.

40:52

She tried to, but she's like, I tried to protect him from that, hoping that I could raise

40:57

him in a way.

40:58

No, I think she tried to protect him from his potential to do harm, but I think his grandmother.

41:03

No, that's what I'm saying.

41:05

Yeah.

41:06

Like back when, like in that first episode, do we feel like Noah at that age was like,

41:10

I'm, well, the only reason why I think that that could be the case and you guys can tell

41:14

me if I'm wrong is because with all of this stuff happening in Rushville, she was so forthright

41:19

with him about it.

41:20

She was basically saying like, this is the kind of thing that I told you was going to

41:23

happen.

41:24

Like this, the day the man got it.

41:25

Right.

41:26

And so I think that she had already let him know like what he was and what that meant

41:30

and how people would come after her.

41:33

So she had to protect him.

41:34

Yes.

41:35

I think that's, that's right on the money.

41:36

If we can pivot to like just comic book, lore, shit.

41:42

When Sinestro makes the fucking lantern.

41:45

Oh my God.

41:46

That has all of the cracks of yellow in it.

41:49

I was wondering, I'm like, okay, they did not show us this in this episode.

41:54

Is how a green lantern is how going to be a yellow lantern, right?

41:59

Or is he going to be a green lantern that literally has basically a dark side in him?

42:04

Yeah.

42:05

Like I was like, I tried to be like, Mace Windu.

42:07

Yeah.

42:08

I try to look at like any comic precedent for that because I'm like, can the yellow lantern

42:11

charge a green ring?

42:13

And like they didn't really, it didn't happen that often.

42:18

I love the idea of that there's like this seed laying because there's a couple of things

42:22

that this episode does that's like table setting for either another season or whatever we

42:26

have story-wise with John that the idea that there's a technically yellow lantern charging

42:33

a green lantern constantly is fascinating.

42:36

I mean, because like I was wondering when John shows up in Man of Tomorrow, is that something

42:42

that we get a little bit of that or is this completely lantern season two?

42:48

I think the big idea is like, I think the lantern is a metaphor for the whole season,

42:53

which is like, you don't have to be afraid of fear, right?

42:57

Like, household thing was that he's fearless, he's fearless, he's fearless.

43:01

In the day, like, it got him killed, right?

43:03

Like, if you find a way not to like not be afraid, per se, but to like, channel your fear

43:09

into a way that's productive, right?

43:11

Like you said.

43:12

Like being fearful is like a, it's pro-evolutionary, right?

43:16

Something that you like have to be to survive, right?

43:19

And so you can't just ignore it.

43:21

You have to use your fear in order to like, you know, overcome something.

43:24

I think that's like the big idea of the fear in the lantern at the end.

43:28

Also, and this is like the thing that I was bugging me, you've talked about comic book

43:33

lore stuff, Guardians top one worst organization ever, right?

43:39

Because guy come down, guy cedar ring, guy cedar lantern.

43:43

And guys just like, I guess I gotta go explain this to the folks at Oa.

43:47

Brother, man, take the lantern or take the ring, take one of the other.

43:51

And like, go make a call big dog, take him to Oa, like, I know you guys don't want those problems.

43:57

Yeah, guys really stare them down there.

43:58

Well, guy, guy for some reason, I thought that that was actually sort of almost like,

44:05

the fact that guy didn't just straight snitch and try to assert his authority on

44:11

John made me like guy a little bit more.

44:14

Not that I necessarily had a huge problem with guy, but when you think about it,

44:17

you know, guys got the lore tech logo on his chest.

44:21

He's kind of a corporate green lantern.

44:23

You see him and, you know, you think I'm your arrow board and all of that stuff like that.

44:28

So the fact that he didn't mark him out or try to like dominate him in that situation

44:35

because he had a fully charged ring and John didn't that actually kind of made me respect

44:41

guy a little bit.

44:42

But do you think part of this is the fact that like if we look at how, how is basically

44:47

discarded by the guardians by the time he's in the last few years of being a green lantern

44:54

and guys basically get in corporate money.

44:56

So as part of guy probably is just like, yeah, I am kind of just a messenger for them.

45:01

Like I have had to kind of sell myself to be popping on earth, but you wouldn't stand

45:06

up and be like, actually, nah, man, I'm the big dog here.

45:08

I'm a cook a little bit.

45:09

Yeah, I got brand deals clearly.

45:11

I know you wouldn't just take that, bro.

45:13

If John, if you were to green lantern earth and a dude came up, it was like, yeah, man,

45:17

actually, this is my spot now.

45:19

You got to go up in space.

45:20

You be like, hell, not lonely.

45:22

First of all, yes, this wouldn't happen to me.

45:23

I'm not letting fucking trader Joe's ghost fucking talk to me crazy.

45:27

Right.

45:28

You know, I'm the real fucking green lantern.

45:31

Fuck you.

45:32

I don't know where was that for.

45:33

And I do love the fact that they don't like each other.

45:35

Come the end of that.

45:36

Yeah.

45:37

Look, look, here's the thing.

45:38

That all could be true.

45:40

But in that situation, it's interesting about his character that he did not leave with

45:44

ego.

45:45

I saw what I'm saying.

45:46

I'm saying it's interesting that he didn't go, oh, you're the green lantern.

45:48

I'm the green lantern.

45:50

It's really the whole show is about the fact that the worthiness of that mantle is

45:56

kind of synthetic.

45:58

Like there's not a right way to be a green lantern.

46:00

You're not right if the guardians choose you.

46:03

You're not right if your parents choose you.

46:05

You're not even right if the ring choose you because that's not what makes you a hero.

46:08

What makes you a hero is understanding the intricacies and the vulnerabilities of human

46:15

nature and wanting to help.

46:17

And trusting yourself and having your own moral compass for what you believe is good.

46:23

Any organization or group of people that have to make decisions about heroism probably

46:28

has an agenda that's anti-humanistic.

46:31

So to me, when he's standing there, I think that not only is he probably to y'all point

46:37

a little scared of John for whatever reason.

46:39

True.

46:40

But I also think that he probably thinks he's got a point.

46:44

Like he's got a point.

46:46

He's around the guardians.

46:47

He knows he like he's got a point.

46:50

There's a lot of red in his ledger already.

46:52

There's something about God that went, huh, I get it.

46:55

I mean, but also the and this is what Monday brings it up.

47:00

This show was always litigating.

47:02

All right.

47:03

If the green lantern core is real and we have a green lantern on earth, they say it one of

47:09

the previous episodes.

47:11

There's no this not the army.

47:14

There's not a bunch of green lanterns running around on earth.

47:17

All of this shit to your point is fucking made up.

47:19

So it is like for John, I do think it's like a very interesting and smart choice to be

47:25

like, no, I'm going to be the green lantern of earth.

47:27

Why would I give a fuck about the other sectors?

47:29

Like, I know what I want to protect.

47:32

And I was like, oh, that's interesting because like, yeah, why would you give a fuck about

47:37

the rest of the sector?

47:38

Yeah.

47:39

Saturn.

47:40

I mean, we've only been to one other planet.

47:42

Earth first.

47:43

Oh, good.

47:44

We're earth first.

47:45

We don't send where earth, we're earth first here.

47:47

We're we're all we're not eventually all around the galaxy.

47:50

They try to build that green wall.

47:51

I didn't say that.

47:53

I didn't say that.

47:54

You say what do you have against John reinvesting in his own hood?

47:57

I don't have anything.

47:58

Well, his earth is his hood.

47:59

That's what I meant to.

48:00

I'm an earth is his hood.

48:02

We got to keep it.

48:03

We got to buy back the block.

48:04

No, and that's and he wouldn't he wouldn't give a shit about that because a, we've only been

48:11

to one other planet this entire thing.

48:13

And John wouldn't care about that since like he's kind of still getting his wings and like

48:17

if he's popping around other planets, the Guardians are going to keep catch wind of that.

48:21

Well, they said he said he's going to send an army.

48:24

And I was just like, hey, first of all, because like he caught his like, hey, bro, not only

48:28

do I got the battery from Sineshtro, I feel like John's like, I could kill you.

48:33

Like I could kill a guardian.

48:34

Yeah, maybe I, but my thing is like to to guys point like when you go to oh and you like,

48:39

hey, I don't know if you'll notice, but John dug up Howe's ring.

48:45

You don't ask him how he got it.

48:46

It's crazy story.

48:47

Not only this, but he also has a power battery.

48:49

So there's just another thing in our, I just feel like somebody's got to, like somebody

48:53

got to make a call.

48:54

Like hey, yo, yo, John man was going on.

48:56

I thought you didn't want this life, you know what I mean?

48:58

Like, but the one bit of leverage that he has over the Guardians is the fact that he

49:02

knows that they were covering up man hunters because with the search their hearts.

49:06

Yeah.

49:07

What did that make?

49:08

Like what?

49:09

I just feel like I think I mean, and that's like kind of where I landed on.

49:13

Ultimately a little, I don't think you feel flimsy.

49:15

Really?

49:16

I just, no, no, because he's going to be like, they're going to know he killed a guard

49:18

or he killed a man hunter.

49:20

Right.

49:21

He's not somewhere to be truffle with.

49:22

Amen.

49:23

Maybe we just let him be.

49:24

He already, like he learned, he learned from the best of the best, which is how.

49:27

How's already probably know what if I'm John, no.

49:31

I'm going straight to Metropolis.

49:33

I know where Superman is.

49:34

I know where Supergirl is.

49:35

I know where Crypto are.

49:37

What the fuck the Green Lantern?

49:38

Like I've seen these batteries.

49:39

They can't hold the charge for shit.

49:41

What the Green Lantern court really going to do when they come to earth?

49:43

That's true.

49:44

What's your name?

49:45

You're going straight to them into what?

49:47

No, I'm saying he's like, oh, our army will come down to you.

49:49

I'm like, we saw what the ring could do.

49:52

It could barely do shit.

49:53

Like this shit.

49:54

Like, we haven't seen John, we're gonna get cooking with the ring yet, bro.

49:58

I'm just saying if it's Superman, Supergirl, Crypto, a couple of my fuckers,

50:02

Metamorphos, we got Hawk Girl, Hawk Girl, like, Hawk Girl.

50:05

They're taking them over the court.

50:07

I mean, nobody is gonna, if you have Superman, if you have two,

50:09

Crypto, Tony and your fucked, right?

50:11

It's gonna be tough.

50:12

It's gonna be hard.

50:13

Wait, how many Green Lanterns do you think it would take to take down Superman?

50:15

I mean, how many you got?

50:17

Like, I mean, are we, are we, we're power scale?

50:21

We're, I mean, are we, we're at a place with a yellow sun?

50:24

Yeah, you're fucked.

50:27

I think no, well, it depends how much willpower.

50:30

I think how John Guy Kyle,

50:35

could, could in the right circumstances get Superman?

50:39

At least this, this universe is Superman.

50:41

Maybe this universe is Superman.

50:43

You saw what he was not carrying his money.

50:45

But also, but also to be real, this universe is Green Lantern.

50:49

Oh, I'm sure.

50:50

I significantly less pop.

50:51

Sure.

50:52

But if you take those four guys against the moon,

50:53

and the comic books is done.

50:54

If you take those, they're fucked.

50:55

Like, yeah, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's,

50:57

but the whole court can take down Superman.

50:59

Maybe, maybe, I mean, I don't know.

51:02

It's like, Mogo is a plan E.

51:03

I know, but like, why I'm trying to say is,

51:05

how many are in the court?

51:06

Like 50?

51:07

There's 200.

51:08

200.

51:09

No, it's a, I think that 1000s, 1000s, 1000s, 1000s.

51:11

That's the, yeah.

51:12

The universe is, yeah.

51:14

Infinite.

51:15

So I mean, I guess if you had all of them,

51:17

I mean, the question is, how do you go?

51:18

You got I on, you got that.

51:19

Yeah, I mean, I'm saying it all, but I'm saying,

51:21

it's gonna take a lot of, there's nothing that they can do

51:23

to Superman.

51:24

Nothing, what are they gonna do that's going to work on you?

51:25

Could you create like, kryptonite from the ring?

51:27

Maybe.

51:28

I mean, if you could do that perhaps, I'm sure there's been

51:30

some comic somewhere where the green hand was able to,

51:33

but like Superman's going to destroy any of the constructs

51:36

that they're done.

51:37

Like what can you do to them?

51:38

Interesting that Superman can beat up Greenlander,

51:41

but Batman is where we draw the line.

51:42

What?

51:43

Batman's where we draw the line.

51:44

Psychologically, Batman has a different set of,

51:46

excuse me.

51:47

He's a certain set of skills.

51:48

That's it.

51:49

That's the crazy part.

51:50

Every other way we're like, yeah, Superman.

51:52

Like the court.

51:53

Now, hold on.

51:54

Batman, hold on.

51:55

Hold on.

51:56

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,

51:57

there's the difference.

51:58

No one thinks that Batman is going to roll up on Superman

52:03

and square off and be Superman.

52:04

That's what we're saying about the Greenlander.

52:06

No one thinks that Batman's,

52:07

but if Batman has time to plan,

52:10

even the press I think, like, time to plan,

52:13

it's going to be tough if we've already seen it.

52:14

Okay.

52:15

So,

52:18

Noah's the man, Hunter.

52:19

John Stuart your Greenlander.

52:21

Guy Gardner gets cut out again.

52:23

Guy Gardner is now off of Earth.

52:25

It seems like,

52:26

I will see how much he honors that.

52:28

We'll see how much he honors that.

52:30

How do we feel like the rush feel reparation

52:34

gets her back?

52:35

Okay.

52:36

How do we feel like everything in rush feel was tied up?

52:38

This is a community that has experienced devastation.

52:41

Devastation.

52:43

There was just a murder.

52:45

And now there is like one one girl,

52:47

the soul of a killer alien leading their team

52:49

to a state championship.

52:50

Which by the way, shout out Noah,

52:52

he only didn't make the decision

52:53

because the scouts could take a look at his other.

52:56

Bullshit.

52:57

Or like what?

52:58

When they did that to be like,

52:59

yes, he this man Hunter got a heart of gold.

53:02

He tried to put his niggas on.

53:03

I'm like, all right.

53:04

Yeah.

53:05

Yeah.

53:06

That's what you gotta do.

53:08

That's what I'm going to do.

53:09

You know, to stay true to God.

53:10

You know what you gotta do though.

53:10

If you know if we're real, right?

53:12

There's got to be one guy.

53:14

There's got to be one dude.

53:16

Wait, like, it happens with like brothers and stuff like that.

53:18

But it's going to be one dude like,

53:19

yo, man, you put the Nebraska head on.

53:21

You like, listen, man, like I really do want to come to Nebraska.

53:24

I really do love this, but you got to take my home.

53:26

He need to scholarship man.

53:27

Like, you know, they did that.

53:29

That does happen.

53:30

They did that with Romeo back in the day.

53:32

Remember that with the Mara de Rosin at SC.

53:35

They did that was a package deal with Romeo and the Mara de Rosin at SC.

53:39

So you gotta take you gotta take my home.

53:40

That's all right.

53:42

Let's say we're in rushville.

53:43

And you got to kill shot on Noah.

53:46

The minute he's played his fellow teammates on not picking the school,

53:51

you're like, this is why I'm not gonna kill.

53:53

Right.

53:54

I don't know as if he was a kid, right?

53:56

So there's something else that you've known.

53:58

No, no, no, no, no.

53:59

I mean, you knew, you knew him.

54:01

John,

54:02

fucked his grandmother got a little overattached to the family.

54:06

By the way, talk to do what needed to be done.

54:08

I'm gonna tell you something right now, man.

54:10

If I'm like, all right, I got this shot lined up.

54:13

I got to kill this kid playing football.

54:15

And I see him spin out of a spin out of a tackle,

54:18

you know, go across his body and throw a dot to the tie it in for 15 yards.

54:23

We might need that.

54:24

He's like, hold on.

54:24

Wait, hold on.

54:25

The cold seat, the quarter bag man.

54:27

I'll be like, no, you can receive this.

54:29

I was like, I'm at least with the gun down.

54:30

I was seeing what you got.

54:31

You gonna shoot the husband?

54:33

Yeah, like my need that.

54:34

Hold on.

54:35

I'll say this.

54:36

Okay, so a couple of things that happen.

54:37

Number one, I don't think that John can let Noah live if we find out that Noah

54:41

killed hell because at that point, he's giving it to his nature.

54:44

As much as he did do because he did whoop the shit out of like a couple of people,

54:49

as much as he did do, he broke the nostril out of jail.

54:52

I know he broke the nostril out of jail.

54:53

I would have really loved to have seen that because even that, even that, like, there was,

54:57

that was a means to an end.

54:59

There is an idea here that you can't indict him yet for the evil that he hasn't done yet.

55:06

Exactly.

55:07

And that's a really interesting thing to explore in this particular show because this show

55:13

continuously delves into how much of your nature should you be held responsible for.

55:21

The moment that we learn that this brash, arrogant, Phil was microaggressions nature

55:28

that how Jordan has is something that's not just a part of his lineage, but that is a

55:32

part of his formation and his programming.

55:35

The question is, what can somebody be if you free them of their programming, if you free

55:40

them of what they're supposed to be?

55:42

What if they choose to want to fight it?

55:44

Right.

55:45

When they are fighting it, why are you allowing if your John know to go into politics?

55:48

I'm like, you got to.

55:49

No, I mean, that's why he takes the ring, right?

55:51

It's ultimately like if something happens with this kid, I'm going to be the one to

55:56

deal with it.

55:57

But if you go to the major, I'm like, nigga, go be it.

55:59

You go talk to him.

56:00

It's like, if you saw if he's there and you see him, he's a turnip for you.

56:03

Yeah.

56:04

Okay.

56:05

You just flashed the ring.

56:06

What's up, man?

56:07

You see no all campus somewhere like, what is it, woman?

56:08

Like, nope, got come here.

56:09

You don't know.

56:10

Like, like, like, like, like, that's right down.

56:12

You're like, don't listen.

56:13

That John come to a you better go take some basket.

56:16

We what the fuck is wrong with you?

56:17

You're not supposed to be doing this.

56:19

I hear with these people.

56:20

What are you, here's the thing with the programming.

56:23

I can't say it.

56:24

Oh, I'll say it.

56:25

Hello ring of verse fans.

56:28

I regret to inform you that due to the initiation of deep saddle protocol, this bit had to

56:33

be edited out of the pod.

56:36

I know.

56:37

I'm just as disappointed as you are.

56:39

Thanks as always for listening and the midnight boys.

56:41

Pew pew.

56:42

We'll get back to you shortly.

56:44

That's the worst thing.

56:45

That is one of the deepest shadows.

56:47

That is the end.

56:48

Yeah, we ever do it.

56:50

So, so, Devin and them, I want to make a note.

56:54

We're not going to take that whole part out, but that little part that is a deep, I want

56:59

we're back.

57:00

Well, we've been back for a second.

57:01

I want you guys to know what Charles is.

57:03

Was the deepest of shadow.

57:04

Oh, yes.

57:05

That'll never come out.

57:06

Yeah.

57:07

That's probably too bad.

57:08

That's tough.

57:09

Yes.

57:10

That's tough.

57:11

Slip him 100 in New York.

57:13

Maybe he'll tell you.

57:14

Oh, my God.

57:15

That's tough.

57:16

I want to know what, I'm censored in silence on this podcast so much.

57:19

Hey, bro.

57:20

Oh, no, you guess what?

57:21

If you want to rock with it, be my mother for the time.

57:23

Yeah.

57:24

I want to love it.

57:25

Because you're two for two.

57:27

Guess what?

57:28

Back on the filter.

57:29

Because you're two for two in jokes that were devastating.

57:33

Oh, yeah.

57:34

Yeah, that was.

57:35

But that week, that other one was one.

57:37

That was amazing.

57:38

That was amazing.

57:39

That was amazing.

57:40

You're two for two.

57:41

Okay, that wasn't.

57:42

Well, I wouldn't have been no tours on the office hat.

57:44

Yeah.

57:45

Yeah.

57:46

Yeah.

57:47

You're two for two.

57:49

If you wanted it, I would love it.

57:52

That was some shit.

57:54

But no.

57:55

So, yeah.

57:56

So I think kind of trusting the community around them,

58:00

caring to a degree, trusting Zoe, which you don't have a lot of reason to trust her, is

58:05

kind of something that John, this is a part of what John has chosen.

58:09

Well, really quick, though.

58:13

It was a very bold choice and I'm so glad they stuck with it.

58:16

They don't give Hal an easy out.

58:18

I feel like a lot of people I saw like, oh, maybe Hal was a clone.

58:23

Maybe he didn't do this.

58:24

This is the, like, till the end, they were like, no, Hal and John are culpable in what

58:29

happened in Rushville.

58:30

And that's why I'm like, I am not.

58:33

Even if this was a mutip finale, I'm like, oh, they didn't take the easy way out.

58:36

No, yeah.

58:37

Can I get a galaxy brain this also in a way that like, I'm sure the riders weren't intending.

58:41

Okay.

58:42

Okay.

58:43

To John doing what he did with Noah is essentially what you would have to do as a superhero.

58:53

Like the nature of human beings and who we are is so uncertain, depending on where we are,

58:59

the type of environment that we've come from, like the trauma that we've undergone.

59:04

And so if you are a superhero, then part of your job is to believe in the uncertainty

59:12

of calamity, evil, but also of good.

59:16

And so you're legitimately monitoring human beings for the time that they go bad.

59:22

And then you step in.

59:23

If you can't do that with one person, how are you going to do that with everybody?

59:28

How are you going to trust everyone to do that?

59:31

That's the difference between like Superman and Batman.

59:34

I believe in the good and people like Captain America and Iron Man.

59:38

I believe, and those heroes always have to learn that free will and the ability to make

59:44

a choice and letting people do that.

59:47

And then acting is like what a belief in humanity actually is.

59:51

So he legitimately demonstrates a belief in humanity by believing in a robot.

59:56

But even what I think the the writers and creators is such a good job of is they were

1:00:05

constantly asking what would happen if these rings and these aliens came to earth.

1:00:11

And at every single point, whether it was John's father, whether it's Carrie, you are

1:00:16

seeing people in real time have to create like with moral and ethical dilemmas, that would

1:00:22

happen if aliens came to earth.

1:00:23

It's not easy.

1:00:24

Like in the comments a lot of times, like, oh, we got the ring.

1:00:28

Everybody's used to it.

1:00:29

I'm flying around and you're like, oh, no, Carrie had a life before.

1:00:33

She ever ran into a man hunter.

1:00:35

John's father.

1:00:36

Of course, this is something that is going to have echoes and reverberations to his entire

1:00:41

fucking lineage for years and years and years.

1:00:44

And that's where I'm like, oh, the show was successful in kind of building a scaffolding

1:00:49

for the DC universe where it's like, oh, this world is still trying to come to grips with

1:00:54

what a metacumids mean, aliens demons.

1:00:56

And I was like, oh, these are really good job.

1:00:59

But it's not just on a like global, immediately, at least on a like global, like, what are our

1:01:04

psychovia cords?

1:01:05

What are our like broad sweeping, like humanity level protections against superheroes?

1:01:11

It's just people in small towns, reckoning with those levers of power that are way beyond

1:01:17

their imaginations.

1:01:18

I wish the MCU, because like, I feel like because the MCU didn't have the TV shows at

1:01:23

the first, they could only really be macro.

1:01:26

And to me, I'm like, oh, it's so interesting.

1:01:29

I hope the DCU does more of this where I'm like, the DCU, historically in the comic books,

1:01:35

everybody has a city.

1:01:37

So you're, you're used to these heroes, like the Flash or Batman dealing with problems

1:01:43

that are a little bit smaller.

1:01:46

And I kind of want the DCU to stay here for as long as possible, where it's like, it

1:01:50

was very smart to pick Rushville as a place.

1:01:53

And I'm like, oh, wherever these other things go, it's a really smart choice for John to

1:01:58

be the green lantern of Earth.

1:01:59

Since you brought up the MCU, so I watched, I went to the theater to watch encore, right?

1:02:07

What did you think of it?

1:02:08

I had a fantastic time, you know, had a great time.

1:02:11

The, the new scenes or whatever the cutscenes, they were whatever, like they, I get it, like

1:02:15

it was whatever.

1:02:16

I have no idea.

1:02:17

I have no idea.

1:02:18

It was whatever.

1:02:19

But I went to the theater to see in-game again.

1:02:22

And the thing that's still a triumph about in-game is just a tremendous amount of care that

1:02:28

was put into wrapping up everybody's story, right?

1:02:31

And the fact that they could do that, that movie is dense though.

1:02:35

That is a dense, dense movie.

1:02:39

That movie has time travel, multiple versions of people.

1:02:42

That movie has a homicidal maniac going around killing people.

1:02:47

It has like every time, you know, think about it, you know, the big screen, every time

1:02:52

you think you're at the point that that movie has stopped moving, it moved some more.

1:02:56

Yeah.

1:02:57

And then at the end of it, you get an old-ass version of Steve, that's a lot of movie.

1:03:00

I think the MCU sometimes felt like they had to give us that experience with everything

1:03:05

that they made.

1:03:06

Yeah.

1:03:07

Like that they, that they had gotten to a point to where they couldn't slow things down

1:03:10

just a little bit to have us focus on really examining why we love these characters so

1:03:17

much.

1:03:18

And that's the thing that they did work on television.

1:03:21

But they're getting back to it in terms of Spider-Man, Wonder Man, Thunderbolt.

1:03:33

Totally agree.

1:03:34

They got the most, that's the R when it's like, okay, even if lanterns, people might be

1:03:40

a little bit like, damn, we didn't get the big spectacle fight.

1:03:42

I'm like, they gave us Kyle Chandler and Aaron Pierre.

1:03:45

They literally helped birth a new hero that people are invested in and want to see going

1:03:51

forward.

1:03:52

That's not nothing because most of this shit for the past like decade could not do that.

1:03:56

And I'm like, I would rather you start slow and build than try to be like, all right,

1:04:01

in one season, this is going to be the huge fucking shit you ever.

1:04:05

Yeah.

1:04:06

The MCU is constantly impatient with itself to want to give us something that they know

1:04:11

we would like to see, but is constantly unearned.

1:04:14

Like, I don't think Sinatra should have gotten the yellow ring in this.

1:04:18

I feel like it would have been rushed and it would almost be like, Sinatra was so good

1:04:27

in this finale and throughout the season.

1:04:30

It gives the universe somewhere to go.

1:04:32

Right.

1:04:33

It's not a Thanos level event, but you are like, damn, he's there.

1:04:37

You can he's there.

1:04:38

What's going to happen?

1:04:39

You can't just stuck on fear planet with nowhere to get out.

1:04:42

Stuff.

1:04:43

It's stuff he earned it.

1:04:44

I mean, I don't know.

1:04:45

Yeah.

1:04:46

What is what is the best show really though in this universe?

1:04:49

Kill the guardian and I don't know if you can quibble with that.

1:04:52

That was just like that kind of bullshit.

1:04:53

We didn't see them.

1:04:54

No more guardians.

1:04:55

Lower Lennie.

1:04:56

I didn't.

1:04:57

Did you expect to see more guardians?

1:04:59

I think we needed to see the guard.

1:05:01

I didn't see Lennie.

1:05:02

I we had to see Lennie come down, but I, hey, man, so this is how you're really going

1:05:06

to do it.

1:05:07

Okay.

1:05:08

Like we're not going to stop you.

1:05:09

And guy, poor kid knows those ghosts.

1:05:11

You know what I mean?

1:05:12

Like he goes to all of his snitches and then lower is like, hey, man, what you did was

1:05:16

kind of crazy.

1:05:17

I'm not going to hold you, but you are kind of right though.

1:05:20

So he's what we're going to do.

1:05:22

You don't say nothing.

1:05:23

I don't say nothing.

1:05:24

We good.

1:05:25

My guy.

1:05:26

All right.

1:05:27

I'm going to see you.

1:05:28

Yeah.

1:05:29

Like that would have been nice, but ultimately, I mean, I'm like, if you see Philly and say

1:05:32

that to lower Lennie, I don't need Philly.

1:05:33

I do you feel you in the fly off and then lower Lennie comes down as a bird, whatever.

1:05:37

And it's like, hey, listen, you say no, right?

1:05:43

However, you did kill a guard and you did do me a favor.

1:05:45

So I'm going to just turn a blind eye.

1:05:47

Little like edit to that final shot.

1:05:49

You see like a just a bird fly across the sky.

1:05:52

Yeah.

1:05:53

But I mean, at the end, I mean, I'm, that's like good point to the end.

1:05:58

Like him flying at the end because we talked about this last week.

1:06:01

We got to talk about that.

1:06:02

Yeah.

1:06:03

We talked about it.

1:06:04

Like one of the things that's going to happen is going to fly.

1:06:05

I think that moment is really like point in the sense of like, he let all this stuff go,

1:06:09

man.

1:06:10

It was two way down by his bag.

1:06:12

It's with his family with brush, with how, right?

1:06:16

So now that final moment in, I love you.

1:06:18

I love you to junior.

1:06:20

Oh, he finally, he finally takes the ring and flies off.

1:06:23

I'm like, he's fine.

1:06:25

I've been too positive.

1:06:26

I needed to see John at least in the suit.

1:06:29

Where was he going to see?

1:06:30

He just became a man.

1:06:31

First of all, he constructed.

1:06:32

How should have been, how, because like, how was watching him?

1:06:35

Like that was his favorite football player.

1:06:37

He should have been like, hey, junior.

1:06:39

I left this for you.

1:06:41

No, I really need to see him in the suit.

1:06:42

I wonder how, I didn't need to see him in the suit.

1:06:45

Him flying was good.

1:06:47

Uh, I, when it happened at the end, there was a part of me that was almost hoping that

1:06:54

it didn't happen.

1:06:55

That they just did something where he grabbed the ring and he looked up and then just

1:06:58

to pitch y'all off.

1:06:59

No, I just needed to fly.

1:07:01

He didn't need to fly.

1:07:03

Yeah, he needed to.

1:07:04

Come on.

1:07:05

I, I needed more ring slinging.

1:07:07

I just did.

1:07:08

I like, I needed to see John get a little busy.

1:07:10

So he just wanted, but then again, it's just like, I didn't even know I need to do much.

1:07:14

So there's a thing though, right?

1:07:16

Remember first try to came out and was like, hey, man, if I just was slinging them rings,

1:07:19

I was like, yo, you want to get some ring slinging?

1:07:21

Don't worry.

1:07:22

And we, we, I'm like, we didn't get no ring slinging, right?

1:07:25

Episode five was a ton of ring slinging, but I, I'm sorry to that, man.

1:07:29

It was kind of light on the green.

1:07:31

All right, so here's the thing.

1:07:32

I agree.

1:07:33

This isn't, all right, let's have the debate.

1:07:36

I don't think this is a full surf Dracula.

1:07:38

I feel like this has always been the show that they wanted to make.

1:07:41

Right.

1:07:42

Like if you like watch it from episode one to episode eight, I always, I always felt like

1:07:46

they are making a grounded universe and this will never be the show where the constructs

1:07:54

are the point.

1:07:55

Right.

1:07:56

With that being said, in a green lantern show, do we need more

1:08:01

green lanterns?

1:08:02

I agree.

1:08:03

I think so.

1:08:04

So this is my deal.

1:08:05

I don't need anything in a show.

1:08:08

Right.

1:08:09

So do I understand the criticism?

1:08:12

Of course.

1:08:13

I don't need anything.

1:08:16

The only thing I need in a show is the only one thing I need in any show is I can't wait

1:08:20

to see the next episode.

1:08:21

Yeah.

1:08:22

That's the only thing I need.

1:08:23

If the show delivers on that, then there's some reason why I'm into the show.

1:08:28

I want a second season.

1:08:29

And that to be is the.

1:08:30

I want a lot of these shows where I'm like, I don't know.

1:08:33

I don't know if I can get all the way behind that in the sense of, again, speaking to

1:08:38

speaking like MCU Daredevil.

1:08:40

It's a Daredevil show and Daredevil not find the hand like the original born again thing

1:08:45

was like, he gonna be in doing a new stuff.

1:08:49

He gonna speak a lawyer for episodes.

1:08:51

He's not gonna find nobody.

1:08:52

He gonna be alright, man.

1:08:53

Yeah, but here's the thing.

1:08:54

Daredevil to me is different because I agree with you, but Daredevil is just a fucking

1:08:59

ninja that lends itself to TV and choreography and everything.

1:09:05

We remember secret invasion.

1:09:06

We remember when Daenerys had all the fucking powers and it looks fucking crazy.

1:09:09

Little drags.

1:09:10

So we said, I was big.

1:09:11

I was powerful being in the air.

1:09:12

All I'm saying is we say we want this shit.

1:09:14

We say we want Anthony Mackey and the suit and then we see the suit and we're like,

1:09:17

I know.

1:09:18

Yeah, that's what I'm saying about the ring sling.

1:09:19

I'm like, if it was even a little bit too much or not executed the way that you would

1:09:23

have wanted, you would have complained.

1:09:24

So, but that's the part that's the paradox of all this stuff.

1:09:27

Yeah.

1:09:28

We have been, I think ultimately what it comes down to is we have been conditioned in a

1:09:33

superhero story at the end.

1:09:35

It's going to be the good guy versus the bad guy.

1:09:37

If I good wins or maybe sometimes evil wins, but at the end of the day, they're still,

1:09:41

they got to get the hands.

1:09:42

It's all this is all how you do it, bro.

1:09:44

Yeah, I loved the smallville.

1:09:47

It was a Superman story.

1:09:48

It was great.

1:09:49

There was no suit.

1:09:50

There was no cape.

1:09:51

There was none of that until the last.

1:09:52

You talk about serve Dracula.

1:09:53

Yeah, the very last.

1:09:54

That was the.

1:09:55

I would argue that, you know, we can, I mean, it's a rice thing.

1:10:02

There was never go Batman never showed up on the show because they're not going to put

1:10:05

Batman on the.

1:10:06

No, I'm not talking about whether or not they could or could not do the thing.

1:10:09

I'm talking about the fact that they didn't do it, but it was as much of a Superman story

1:10:14

as anything.

1:10:15

I was as much as a Superman of a Superman show as I've ever seen.

1:10:23

Like, there was, remember the episode where there was the teacher and she was too fine.

1:10:30

Yeah, he started getting his heat vision.

1:10:34

Shit like that is just inspiring to me because it's like he a freaky ass young man.

1:10:40

And that's what's making it.

1:10:41

That's inspiring.

1:10:42

That's inspiring because, you know, the story of when did Superman's heat vision first

1:10:47

manifest itself?

1:10:49

Like how can you take something that we already know and love and make us interested in it

1:10:54

in a way that's very, very grounded and accessible?

1:10:58

It's so he's a god, right?

1:11:00

And watching his power was meant because I think that lady in that episode was also like

1:11:04

some kind of demon because she had Marylux.

1:11:06

Oh, yeah.

1:11:07

Yeah, she was like some kind of like the meteor had given her some kind of power.

1:11:11

And just to take that mythology that we all know and make the meteors, the source of

1:11:15

all these crazy happenings and small, so move legs Luther and Luther core to small all

1:11:20

of that stuff is not about what you have to have.

1:11:23

It's about how well they do the thing that they are doing.

1:11:25

I mean, also if we're going to be real, the constructs to me will always kind of look

1:11:31

goofy in live action.

1:11:33

So you have to be very careful of how like the coolest thing that how did this entire

1:11:38

season had nothing to do with the constructs.

1:11:42

It's like point junior and he just goes.

1:11:44

Boom.

1:11:45

He's way cooler than because I was just like, oh, so I give a little bit of grace because

1:11:50

I'm like, they still have not gotten the green constructs right to me.

1:11:54

And I don't know if you can just because it is.

1:11:55

It's a common good thing.

1:11:56

And technically they're relancering the whole time because how was the construct the last

1:12:00

three episodes?

1:12:01

Yeah.

1:12:02

Let me ask you this.

1:12:03

Do you feel like they got the come before we get to the midnight meter?

1:12:04

Do you feel like we got they got the constructs right and Superman in the movie?

1:12:09

No.

1:12:10

I thought it was fun.

1:12:11

It wasn't bad.

1:12:12

It was like kind of like marble texture to it, which looked kind of cool.

1:12:17

But then again, like in contrast to this, which is like just a little bit of a shade of

1:12:20

green on it, but like you can make tornadoes and stuff.

1:12:23

Like I could have gone for a little bit more than a bubble from how.

1:12:26

I thought that guy is a big fan of the bubble.

1:12:29

I thought that guy was cool in in in Superman.

1:12:34

Yeah.

1:12:35

The way he was just at the end.

1:12:37

Yeah.

1:12:38

Yeah.

1:12:39

I think that's cool.

1:12:41

Yeah.

1:12:42

But the contract itself still looks a little goofy where you're like, oh, yeah.

1:12:46

A real way to make something big and fucking green.

1:12:49

Yeah.

1:12:50

Looked out.

1:12:51

Yeah.

1:12:52

The Hulk just cried somewhere.

1:12:53

It was like, even with the Hulk, if you think about it, the Hulk didn't stop looking

1:12:57

cool.

1:12:58

It's like that.

1:12:59

And it was basically great.

1:13:00

He was like puke cream.

1:13:01

When that first movie, not the not the Ang Lee joint.

1:13:07

You talking about Eric Banna?

1:13:08

Yeah.

1:13:09

No, not the Eric.

1:13:10

That's Ang Lee.

1:13:11

No, I'm sorry.

1:13:12

Everybody were in Northern.

1:13:13

He was a super fucking green in that shit.

1:13:15

He was like dirty brown.

1:13:17

I can't see.

1:13:18

I was talking about really.

1:13:19

I like the way he looked in the Avengers.

1:13:22

I think I think he looked better than the Avengers that you didn't incredible Hulk.

1:13:26

He did.

1:13:27

But I don't think he looked Armonger like I think he looked best in Spider-Man.

1:13:31

Yeah.

1:13:32

Yeah.

1:13:33

He looked great.

1:13:34

Yeah.

1:13:35

Yeah, look great.

1:13:36

He looked great.

1:13:37

We living in the Spider-Man world.

1:13:40

We watching the entire movie of in game.

1:13:43

Spider-Man comes on the screen.

1:13:44

This is about this is the battle of not the battle in New York.

1:13:47

This is the battle of earth.

1:13:48

The battle of earth.

1:13:49

At the end, when Spider-Man came on that screen and on core, that audience went fucking

1:13:56

crazy.

1:13:57

In 2026.

1:13:58

Like, if you want to see it, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that,

1:14:02

the Spider-Man swings onto the screen.

1:14:04

He takes a thing off.

1:14:05

Spider-Man!

1:14:07

They went nuts.

1:14:09

Your crowd went crazy too, man.

1:14:11

At every point where like, when you watch it the first time, when there was a moment,

1:14:15

somebody go crazy.

1:14:16

Catching the hammer, portals open.

1:14:18

Catching the hammer.

1:14:19

Crazy.

1:14:20

Portals open with Chagwick showed up.

1:14:22

Everybody, everybody in my, I'm about to cry now.

1:14:25

Everybody started crying.

1:14:26

What?

1:14:27

Avengers.

1:14:28

Avengers.

1:14:29

A simple.

1:14:30

It really, it really was like, that was the one of one feeling.

1:14:35

It really was.

1:14:36

It really was.

1:14:37

It was a piece of shadow with BuzzFeed.

1:14:38

Okay, midway.

1:14:39

Wait, really, really quick.

1:14:40

Is it bullshit that they were like the little hammer clink from Tony at the end of the

1:14:45

original end game?

1:14:46

They're like, that was always Tony making the Doom back.

1:14:50

That's a black line.

1:14:51

They did it in the movie.

1:14:52

They did it.

1:14:53

They did it in an awkward way.

1:14:54

I know.

1:14:55

I was like, I, yo.

1:14:56

Okay, real quick.

1:14:57

Don't act like that was the plan.

1:14:58

We talking about scene, we talked about those scenes real quick.

1:15:01

The, the one, rank them real quick.

1:15:02

By the way, spoilers for Avengers on core apparently.

1:15:04

If you haven't seen that in the, okay, can y'all rank the four joints we got?

1:15:11

I'm dead last is the, the Doom one.

1:15:13

It's like barely not even seen.

1:15:15

He's about to clink in the end.

1:15:16

That's dead last.

1:15:17

That's dead last.

1:15:18

Third is the, the, the scene with Loki and, uh, and Captain, no, I beg you.

1:15:21

And Captain Peggy.

1:15:22

That's what I was dumb.

1:15:23

Well, it's not one of his dumb.

1:15:24

It's just like, you could have done that later.

1:15:27

I think you could have showed him at any time.

1:15:28

I think you don't need to do that.

1:15:29

Like the second that their dance thing.

1:15:30

Exactly.

1:15:31

You don't have to do that, right?

1:15:32

You could have like had that have them come later, right?

1:15:35

Second is the scene with Hulk and Doom because not only does that propel you to brand new

1:15:39

day or from brand new day to Doom's days.

1:15:42

Just like it's cool to see Doom.

1:15:43

Now the problem with that scene in particular is that that should have been in brand new

1:15:47

day.

1:15:48

Right.

1:15:49

It should not have been.

1:15:50

But they were going to do that in the Sony joint.

1:15:51

They could have.

1:15:52

It would have been fine.

1:15:53

But like, whatever reason they was selling.

1:15:54

They really like enjoyed the most.

1:15:55

Was it TVA scene with Morbius and Casey, which is the one that you could tell, which is

1:16:01

the one that you could tell all of those scenes are oriented around.

1:16:05

Because to me, that's the that's the longest one.

1:16:08

And that's the one where it honestly feels like it holds actual.

1:16:13

The other ones are brand crimes that like actually feels like dessert.

1:16:17

That's what you're seeing after seeing on court.

1:16:19

Because like, I feel like Marvel is trying to do this thing where they're like, oh,

1:16:24

no, this we were planning this.

1:16:26

Don't worry.

1:16:27

Blah, blah, blah.

1:16:28

After seeing that TVA scene, are you kind of feeling like, hey, you guys don't have to

1:16:31

convince us that end games connected to this or what?

1:16:34

Just make your story.

1:16:35

Just tell you.

1:16:36

They really did.

1:16:37

I mean, obviously would have gone to see it either way, whichever.

1:16:40

They're really trying to do some like, what's it called them?

1:16:42

Some backlogging.

1:16:43

Yes.

1:16:44

So yeah, which like I kind of understand the end of the day, brother.

1:16:48

You could give us that TVA scene.

1:16:49

I would have got it.

1:16:50

I didn't need like all the other stuff.

1:16:52

So the only thing I'd say about it is, everything has to have a point and a purpose.

1:16:59

And so being that we're going to get this whole multiversal thing, I think or these

1:17:05

these incursions, I think it does make sense to show us like how the TVA is looking at

1:17:11

it.

1:17:12

I mean, they've taken the entire, it's like, it would be like, that would be like if the

1:17:18

movie had taken this entire time to build up a bunch of lifeguards and then something's

1:17:23

happening in the ocean.

1:17:24

And then we don't fucking see the life right.

1:17:27

These guys are the lifeguards of this.

1:17:29

So I didn't have a problem with like seeing their deal.

1:17:32

We know that there was a meeting in 2023 where they got together and decided to pivot to

1:17:37

do.

1:17:38

We read it and puck.

1:17:39

Okay.

1:17:40

So like we know that that's what happened.

1:17:41

So do they need to backfill some story?

1:17:44

Yeah.

1:17:45

At this point, they do have to be careful about how much time they spend doing it.

1:17:49

The funny thing about like the opportunity we've seen.

1:17:52

So like they confirmed some universes get destroyed.

1:17:55

And universes at least confirmed the Eric Banna Hogue verse, the 2015 Fantastic Four

1:18:01

Verse.

1:18:02

The X-Men verse allegedly and you guys is favorite.

1:18:07

The what at first gone all of it.

1:18:09

Tough all of it.

1:18:10

They're all they're all they're the watcher.

1:18:12

Encouraged you incur a debt of guilty.

1:18:13

Encouraged.

1:18:14

We'll see what happens.

1:18:15

But this is about lanterns.

1:18:16

And so we have to do the midnight meter.

1:18:19

All right.

1:18:20

Y'all know what it is.

1:18:21

The midnight meter one to 12.

1:18:22

One is the worst 11 and 12.

1:18:23

I reserve for true game changers.

1:18:25

I will start with you then where you going 11.

1:18:29

It feels right.

1:18:31

It feels right.

1:18:32

And 11 and 11.

1:18:34

Speak on it.

1:18:35

It's a truly, truly immersive.

1:18:42

It's a truly, resonant and impactful season of television.

1:18:45

I give it an 11 both on the quality of the show.

1:18:49

But also the fact that this show.

1:18:52

This show occupied the Sunday night on HBO slot.

1:18:56

Very true.

1:18:57

And lived up to that slot.

1:19:01

What's supposed to do that?

1:19:02

That's supposed to be a slot that's succession bullies that gave a throw.

1:19:08

Oh yeah.

1:19:09

And this show did Sunday night on HBO and lived up to it.

1:19:13

That is cultural.

1:19:14

I will also say House of the Dragon post super girl.

1:19:20

My fuckers was digging the gray for DCU.

1:19:22

Yeah.

1:19:23

You know what I'm saying?

1:19:24

Yeah.

1:19:25

It kind of I did not expect lanterns to be the thing where people were just like, okay,

1:19:29

we're back in.

1:19:30

We're.

1:19:31

I would not be surprised if when we go to see men of tomorrow, John Stewart gets the

1:19:37

biggest applause.

1:19:38

I'm going to get a pop for sure.

1:19:39

Mm hmm.

1:19:40

I got to go 11 to I was a twin like, I was a twin to 10 or 11, but I think there is a level

1:19:46

of game change in this in the show to your point of this is what this was culture feeling.

1:19:52

You know, like people were really rocking with this show for the last eight weeks.

1:19:56

And yeah, to your point, man, John Stewart is like, you don't see the man that's Marley

1:20:00

get worried.

1:20:01

I don't mean what we mean, talk to money, like a bunch about like whether it's season

1:20:05

two or not.

1:20:06

There's no way you don't bring this.

1:20:08

You bring in this character back, but you got to bring this character back in either

1:20:11

in his own movie or his own another TV series.

1:20:14

He don't only him and Black Panther, the only two black superheroes standing.

1:20:18

They got played out of here.

1:20:19

They got one man out of here.

1:20:21

You know what I mean?

1:20:22

So like, yeah, I got to go to 11 for this one.

1:20:24

I'd say 11 as well.

1:20:25

And it's also the, I also got it got like the alien earth feeling of this where not only

1:20:30

were we talking about the show itself, but the bigger ideas that the show is clearly like

1:20:35

chewing at and like consuming us with the discussions around it.

1:20:40

But like we got so much substance of talk around this show and what it meant to be fearful,

1:20:47

love versus programming, all of this stuff.

1:20:51

It did the canon of comic books like amazingly well.

1:20:53

And this show had it ending unlike alien earth season one.

1:20:56

Very true.

1:20:57

Very true.

1:20:58

Here we go.

1:20:59

What you got?

1:21:00

The raw chuck.

1:21:01

Let's see.

1:21:02

Let's see.

1:21:03

Before you say those new, new here, before he says it, what do you think?

1:21:08

I think he's going to the nine or 10.

1:21:11

I think it's a nine.

1:21:12

Things giving eight.

1:21:13

I will have to award Lantern season one.

1:21:20

Very, very strong.

1:21:22

Seven.

1:21:23

Nine.

1:21:24

Nine.

1:21:25

There we go.

1:21:26

All right.

1:21:27

Okay.

1:21:28

That's good.

1:21:29

You take them.

1:21:30

We take them.

1:21:31

It's always minus two.

1:21:32

I'm not.

1:21:33

I'm not.

1:21:34

I know it's always a very very.

1:21:36

I'm going to say this.

1:21:37

And we guys, what did Chuck give Schoegin?

1:21:41

12.

1:21:42

But I say that he now the week.

1:21:45

Okay.

1:21:46

I can't end the words.

1:21:48

We saw it.

1:21:49

I don't know why.

1:21:50

I think I was saying Japan, I would have given it.

1:21:56

The same show, but in Japan, you know, you know, one of my least favorite modes of conversation

1:22:01

is you got to see this.

1:22:03

Nika went to sweeten up.

1:22:05

And when I went to sweeten, the seven and elevens in Sweden is what I'm talking about.

1:22:09

It's cool.

1:22:10

They have fresh baked.

1:22:11

My one there, the seven and eleven in Sweden, the lady behind the thing, she was like a

1:22:16

kindly old barkeep.

1:22:17

She was there.

1:22:18

It was like a complete request.

1:22:19

You were a question.

1:22:20

But I did see, I just see your video though.

1:22:23

Black people not doing the head nod.

1:22:25

What the fuck went.

1:22:26

What?

1:22:27

No.

1:22:28

They weren't doing it.

1:22:29

That's us.

1:22:30

That is a uniquely American.

1:22:31

They're saying this right now, but I have to tell you that there's a lot of people who's

1:22:34

mad about this.

1:22:35

A lot of people who are saying that I was being like a typical American, expecting everybody

1:22:39

to do what we do.

1:22:41

It's interesting.

1:22:42

I'm going to say this and I'm going to let it go.

1:22:45

Sometimes it's difficult for me because sometimes it feels like people want to have

1:22:50

shit both ways.

1:22:51

I tell you what I mean.

1:22:53

What I mean is, yes, I realize that I'm a black American and not all customs and stuff

1:22:58

like that.

1:22:59

Like escape America.

1:23:01

I get that.

1:23:02

I understand that.

1:23:03

But at the same time, if I were to say that I'm a black American and this is black American

1:23:09

culture and blah, blah, blah, then you get pushed back where people go, hey, we're all

1:23:14

black.

1:23:15

Black is the same.

1:23:16

It's a black diaspora.

1:23:17

It's all of this.

1:23:18

It's all of that.

1:23:19

I understand that.

1:23:20

We all black.

1:23:21

We together.

1:23:22

All I'm saying is, if I'm walking through the Grove, where it's a lot of white people and

1:23:27

I see a black person, I look at them.

1:23:29

I do like that.

1:23:30

They look, that's a lot of you.

1:23:31

You good?

1:23:32

And Niggas come in.

1:23:36

We're going to podcast.

1:23:38

What's happening?

1:23:39

What's happening?

1:23:40

That's the outside.

1:23:41

What are you doing?

1:23:42

What are you doing?

1:23:43

Rachel, come on.

1:23:44

I just want to see it in the first.

1:23:45

No, come on.

1:23:46

What are you doing?

1:23:47

Come on, you got to come on.

1:23:48

Rachel, come on.

1:23:49

Rachel, come on.

1:23:50

Rachel, no, Rachel.

1:23:51

No, Rachel.

1:23:52

What are you doing?

1:23:53

Lenters.

1:23:54

Lenters, Rachel, Rachel.

1:23:55

Rachel, Rachel, Rachel, Rachel, you got far.

1:23:57

Because you were also a sweet.

1:23:58

I'm always, why does it be one of the midnight boys?

1:24:00

Rachel's here, guys.

1:24:01

Give it up for Rachel.

1:24:02

Rachel, Rachel, ladies and gentlemen.

1:24:03

Yeah.

1:24:04

Thank you, guys.

1:24:05

You were also a sweet.

1:24:06

What did you think of the 7-Eleven and or black people not nodding to other black people?

1:24:10

I didn't see black people like that to be even be.

1:24:12

I mean, not in advance.

1:24:13

Yeah, we nodded to each other.

1:24:14

We saw.

1:24:15

I didn't see black people like that.

1:24:16

You didn't see no black people in Sweden?

1:24:18

Like, just walking on the street?

1:24:19

I maybe saw two.

1:24:20

But look, I'll say this though.

1:24:22

I'll say this though.

1:24:23

I didn't see black people in Sweden.

1:24:26

But there were mad black people that reached out to me.

1:24:29

Like, on Instagram, I was like, hey, if you're going to Sweden, like, came out, come

1:24:34

so the black side was getting stuff like that.

1:24:36

So maybe they're not in Stockholm.

1:24:37

Yeah.

1:24:38

This would have been great for you and sweet.

1:24:39

Yeah, it would have worked.

1:24:40

This is.

1:24:41

It would have worked.

1:24:43

It would have worked.

1:24:44

It would have worked.

1:24:45

It would have worked.

1:24:46

It would have worked.

1:24:47

Yeah, maybe.

1:24:48

Did you like the 7-Eleven and the sweet?

1:24:49

I looked at it.

1:24:50

I didn't go inside.

1:24:51

It was beautiful.

1:24:52

They had a silent fog.

1:24:53

You did go for 7-Eleven?

1:24:54

No, no, no.

1:24:55

I just, I wasn't that curious enough.

1:24:56

I asked the question.

1:24:58

I knew it was, I knew that they were nicer there.

1:25:00

I was impressed with the salad bar.

1:25:02

Then I just kept it moving.

1:25:03

No, we can't do the salad bar.

1:25:04

Did you do the salad bar?

1:25:05

I did not.

1:25:06

But I did what the story we have to go.

1:25:08

This is probably post-credits.

1:25:09

But what I did say, what I did see though, is I was walking down the street.

1:25:13

I told this story before.

1:25:14

And I saw everybody had a hot dog.

1:25:17

I'd say, oh man.

1:25:18

I was like, yo, when a hot, I mean, like, when a hot, you were gobbling the glizzies?

1:25:22

I was not.

1:25:23

But everybody got their hot dogs from the 7-Eleven.

1:25:27

Oh.

1:25:28

Everybody, like, everybody.

1:25:29

It's so exciting.

1:25:30

I'm coming down the thing.

1:25:31

Everybody got a hot dog.

1:25:32

And when I'm saying people standing around and they dressed up and like Hugo Boss and they

1:25:36

like, these are people they're having a hot dog.

1:25:38

I'm like, oh my god, is there like a street fair somewhere?

1:25:40

They was going into the 7-Eleven to get down there.

1:25:42

The 7-Eleven was beautiful.

1:25:43

I mean, it's so clean.

1:25:45

So clean.

1:25:46

I also appreciate the white man got up, gave me a seat.

1:25:49

Let me sit down with the boys.

1:25:50

We got this podcast for three years and a half.

1:25:53

There you go.

1:25:54

Silma Steve is back.

1:25:55

Silma Steve is back.

1:25:56

Silma Steve is back.

1:25:57

All right.

1:25:58

That's post-graded.

1:25:59

So let's close out the show for Steve from City.

1:26:01

Bye, Ray.

1:26:02

Good to you.

1:26:03

Yo, guys, the guests keep a flow in on the midnight boys.

1:26:07

We were honored to interview Chris Mundy, executive producer, show runner, writer of Lanterns

1:26:14

and Shornair.

1:26:15

Please stick around.

1:26:16

We ask him all of the great questions.

1:26:18

All right, the season is over, but our conversations about Lanterns are not over yet.

1:26:25

We are here with writer, show runner, and executive producer Chris Mundy to continue the Lanterns

1:26:35

cowbell.

1:26:36

Before we do anything, 321, you got to give us a pew, pew, Chris.

1:26:40

That's what we do.

1:26:41

321.

1:26:42

All right.

1:26:43

I'm getting right into it right now, man.

1:26:46

I'm getting right into it.

1:26:48

Okay.

1:26:49

Before we even talk about the show itself, tell me about the how and the why.

1:26:55

The Green Lantern is a character that we are so familiar with that is part of the fabric

1:27:01

of the DC universe and really the overall superhero universe.

1:27:04

This was deconstructed.

1:27:06

This was humanistic.

1:27:07

This was story first.

1:27:09

Like why this approach to this character and how did you get it done?

1:27:15

Well, I don't know how we got it done.

1:27:16

You guys can tell me.

1:27:17

But I mean, the idea from the beginning was just like, okay, let's take this at face value.

1:27:23

Let's take it that these people have these jobs and they live in the world and they're

1:27:27

real people.

1:27:30

What would that look like and feel like?

1:27:36

If you're the Green Lantern, how Jordan's the Green Lantern, he's doing that job a short

1:27:41

amount of the day in a way, do you know what I mean?

1:27:44

We just talked about them as people and then we talked about what would happen.

1:27:49

What do you do as you start to age out of a job?

1:27:52

You know, it's like, what does that feel like?

1:27:56

Because it's also your identity and I think all of us can relate to that in certain ways.

1:28:01

You watch it.

1:28:02

You definitely watch it in sports all the time, but we have it in our own jobs.

1:28:06

So we just started there and said, let's talk about these people as these guys as people

1:28:10

and see where we get.

1:28:12

Yeah, it's interesting.

1:28:15

I got this from my dad, but my father used to say that athletes are born twice and

1:28:20

they die twice.

1:28:22

You're born, you're regular self and then you get reborn as magic or MJ and then you legitimately

1:28:28

die in front of everyone.

1:28:30

You go to something with an unveiled statue of you or you go to a professional funeral.

1:28:36

It's like, didn't you used to be?

1:28:37

Didn't you used to be that thing or that person?

1:28:41

And that he goes, that afterlife is hard.

1:28:43

That's why you see people struggling and stuff like that.

1:28:45

And it was interesting to see that happen on screen to a superhero because we never

1:28:49

get that side of their life.

1:28:52

Was there any pushback from attacking it like that because a lot of people aren't used

1:28:59

to not looking up at superheroes and looking at them like that?

1:29:04

Yeah, I think because we went in, there was buy-in from the beginning.

1:29:09

It was like, this is the way we're going to try to do it.

1:29:15

And so those things kind of happened before it.

1:29:19

And then it just became about, okay, how well are you doing the thing you said you wanted

1:29:23

to do?

1:29:24

I was saying when we were talking about before this, my thing on the show was always, okay,

1:29:30

if this is a good idea about the way to do it, I think we can do it well.

1:29:34

But the question just is, was this a good idea?

1:29:39

And then you go from there and you cross your fingers and you work as hard as you can?

1:29:42

So with the finale, I feel like I was surprised because this entire time I was like, okay,

1:29:49

Jon's going to get the rig, everything's going to explode, he's going to be making all

1:29:53

these constructs.

1:29:54

And in a way, you guys sidestep that a little bit.

1:29:58

So in the beginning of the process, where you always like, something radical happened

1:30:02

where it's like, Jon is like, I'm the green lantern of Earth.

1:30:05

Guy, you can be the one in space.

1:30:07

Is that always something in the beginning where you're like, this is the story we are

1:30:10

telling?

1:30:11

It was pretty close, pretty close.

1:30:12

I mean, you know, you put up like tent poles in the storytelling and then things shift

1:30:18

a little bit, but those, the big ones were always kind of like, they stuck, you know?

1:30:25

And so we knew at the end, Jon was going to take the ring.

1:30:31

Then the existence of Guy, that we were like, okay, what do we do?

1:30:35

We were about, I don't know, a third of the way through breaking the whole thing when

1:30:39

all of a sudden we were like, it's more of like a, he's almost like a ronin in a way.

1:30:42

Jon, I mean, it's like, and once we did that, we're like, okay, good, we're going, we

1:30:47

know we'll get there.

1:30:49

And we trust that we can get there in a meaningful way, but like, it helps to know where you're

1:30:53

, where you're heading.

1:30:54

It was, it was interesting as well in this episode because we see the new lantern that

1:31:01

Sinestro creates.

1:31:03

We see the yellow cracks and fissures in it.

1:31:07

And to me, I'm like, oh, this opens up so much storytelling, like possibility.

1:31:11

How much of that was a push and pull of like, how much do we reveal?

1:31:15

How much do we save?

1:31:16

Because that's a comic fan, my mind was going crazy.

1:31:18

Well, I'm a big believer that like in any season to TV, you need to end your story because

1:31:24

that it's, it's like, you need otherwise, it's like, you made a promise to the viewers

1:31:30

and you didn't fulfill it.

1:31:32

So like, we needed to answer our mysteries and all, but at the same time, there needs to

1:31:36

be things that you know you can build on or go back to.

1:31:38

And some of them could be like, oh, that lantern looks sus, you know, or it could just

1:31:42

be emotionally shits going to go down between these people in the future.

1:31:46

And you just, you know that there's possibility and it's always, it's always part of your

1:31:50

world.

1:31:51

Then you might get back to it in a season two.

1:31:52

You might get back to it in a season three, but it's, but it's there.

1:31:56

So you build that stuff to have places to go that are organic and are always inside

1:32:02

your story.

1:32:04

But hopefully you end your story too.

1:32:07

You know, the thing that people started like, because it's like you're asking for people's

1:32:10

time.

1:32:11

What?

1:32:12

Yeah.

1:32:13

How does that work though with knowing that your character has to go on exist in a larger

1:32:15

universe?

1:32:16

I mean, when you're doing Ozark or you're doing a different show, you're telling the

1:32:21

life stories of these characters, sometimes with this devastating brutality that they have

1:32:27

to go through.

1:32:28

So remember to see where where she, where she flips out in Ozark.

1:32:33

I'm fucking killed.

1:32:34

I was like, shit.

1:32:35

What?

1:32:36

You know what I mean?

1:32:37

You're existing through that.

1:32:38

I was out.

1:32:39

You fucking mad.

1:32:40

I knew when they killed that boy.

1:32:43

I'm not going to get that.

1:32:44

But, but with this one though, you're taking care of your story.

1:32:48

But also, we know that John's in Manit's Mark.

1:32:51

Did you know John was going to be in Manit tomorrow when you're breaking this season of TV?

1:32:56

At a certain point we did.

1:32:58

Not initially like when we were right in the pilot and started in the room.

1:33:03

But we knew that part of our job was to launch John as a character.

1:33:10

And we know that world exists.

1:33:11

So I mean, like, you know, we're not done.

1:33:13

We can do.

1:33:14

So how do you split the baby on that?

1:33:15

It's in terms of ending your story, but preparing him to be useful to somebody else's.

1:33:21

I know.

1:33:22

I really, we just tried to end our story and then say, here he is.

1:33:27

Go with God.

1:33:28

Go with God.

1:33:29

And if there's any problem with it, let us know if we need to tweak anything, but we didn't

1:33:34

need to tweak anything.

1:33:35

You know, but it was really just like, okay, trust that we created hopefully a character

1:33:41

that's a 360 degree character.

1:33:45

And then, you know, it's storytelling.

1:33:47

It's like, okay, you're turn.

1:33:48

Like, I want to watch that.

1:33:49

I want to watch that.

1:33:50

I want to watch John, right?

1:33:51

Like the whole point of the show, so launch John into this large universe.

1:33:54

But part of that, you give him his own oath, right?

1:33:57

And like, in the comics, like, multiple characters have like different oaths.

1:34:00

So that's not new.

1:34:01

But like, what was the thought process in like, this is going to be John's oath?

1:34:04

Like, why was it written away that it was written?

1:34:08

It's funny.

1:34:09

Like, Justin always said in one of our writers that it's like, okay, we're not rewriting.

1:34:12

We're just remixing it.

1:34:13

You know, it's a, but it's like, John's whole path to it wasn't the same as that.

1:34:20

It's anybody else's path.

1:34:21

Like, the ring didn't choose him, you know, he got interviewed for it.

1:34:26

But then he needed to choose that he wanted the job.

1:34:29

He turned down the job and then came back and needed to want it on his own terms, not

1:34:33

his parents, you know, not just because of the guardians.

1:34:37

And we'd sort of, we talked so much about fear, obviously, because it's a big part of

1:34:42

the mythology and the canon.

1:34:44

And, and we really landed on, there's a line in the, in the finale.

1:34:49

It's like fear is actually just emotional intelligence.

1:34:51

You know, show me a species without fear.

1:34:53

I'll show you something on the extinction list.

1:34:55

And it's like, it's true.

1:34:57

So it's like, you can use it.

1:34:59

You can, you want to be fearless, but like, you want to be intelligent too.

1:35:03

Fear is probably a solution here.

1:35:05

Exactly.

1:35:06

Yeah.

1:35:07

So, so we're like, all those things, we can't put him through this thing and have him

1:35:10

learn all this stuff.

1:35:12

And then just say an oath to people that he's not entirely pledging allegiance to at the

1:35:17

moment.

1:35:18

So, we just want him to be his own man, but at the same time, it definitely nods toward

1:35:25

the, the original earth.

1:35:27

We don't know if we don't want to disrespect it, but like, we just want John to be his

1:35:30

own man.

1:35:31

I'm curious how you, because like it, it's reflected very well in house final line to

1:35:36

him.

1:35:37

Don't be afraid to be afraid.

1:35:38

The growth and like slight regression of how, as he's giving the, this mantle too John,

1:35:46

What was the best balancing point that you needed to find after how passes and yet giving

1:35:52

John the how he needs post mortem?

1:35:56

Yeah, it was really tricky.

1:36:00

You can write to it, which we obviously tried to do, but it's really part of it is just

1:36:05

like what Kyle's doing because there's a warmth and an openness to the hologram that

1:36:12

there wasn't to how later.

1:36:16

So we just tried to find those moments where all of a sudden John glimpsed how as an open

1:36:22

him being like, oh God, well, he ended up this other thing kind of beaten down a little

1:36:27

bit by things because it's a hard job and it's lonely.

1:36:31

And I don't want to glimpse my future and be a little beaten down.

1:36:33

Does that answer the question?

1:36:35

It does because I'm just curious about like the idea like were you ever afraid to know

1:36:39

that he's getting this catharsis effectively from a ghost or somebody that isn't real?

1:36:44

Yeah, really how?

1:36:46

Yeah, no, we did.

1:36:47

We wrote right to it in seven, that numbers changed at one point, but on the boat, and

1:36:57

he was like, you know, John's like, I want his apology.

1:37:00

He's like, I said, I'm sorry, he's like, I want his apology.

1:37:03

And some of the heartbreaking thing in this is that he doesn't quite get, he comes to understand

1:37:08

how.

1:37:09

So in that way, there's some closure, but I think there's a sadness in the fact that

1:37:14

he didn't.

1:37:15

In those two actual characters didn't get that moment, you know, in your headcaded for

1:37:20

the greed letters of so interested now because house ring, it seems a little bit different

1:37:26

from Guy's ring.

1:37:27

It seems a little bit older.

1:37:29

He has all these tricks.

1:37:31

You don't do all of the comic book stuff where it's like, oh, the suits are actual rather

1:37:36

and stuff like that.

1:37:37

So when you are making this world, how are you guys trying to figure out what to take

1:37:43

from the comics, what to keep, how to keep it grounded, but also expensive?

1:37:48

Yeah.

1:37:49

Oh, God.

1:37:50

No.

1:37:51

It seems like some shame.

1:37:52

No, I mean, really, I mean, we wanted everything to feel like a tool.

1:37:58

Okay.

1:37:59

The ring is a tool.

1:38:00

The lantern is a tool.

1:38:01

The suit is a tool in a way.

1:38:05

Even like, even things like the gun that Anton uses, the shoot the memories into John's

1:38:13

head, we wanted to feel like an actual thing that would be in someone's like, you know,

1:38:18

tool shed.

1:38:20

So that like, you always felt that like the job and the mission of it in that way.

1:38:26

We always felt tethered to things.

1:38:30

So we really just leaned in that direction all the time.

1:38:35

Do you know what I mean?

1:38:36

We wanted it to be like, this is a job and it's like, it's a cool job and you're a superhero

1:38:42

but like, it takes a toll and the suit gets scuffed up.

1:38:48

You know, and the lantern gets scuffed up and the ring gets scuffed up, you know, because

1:38:54

we wanted to believe it as much as we could that the wedding.

1:38:58

We're going to get a suit.

1:39:00

Do you guys ever have gov stations where you've like, we got to see him in the green

1:39:03

lantern suit?

1:39:04

We did at the beginning.

1:39:05

I mean, yeah, they're drawings out there in the world.

1:39:07

That's for sure.

1:39:08

Oh.

1:39:09

Yeah, we talked about it a lot at the beginning.

1:39:11

But just by the evolution of the story that wasn't when we could have had him take a get

1:39:17

a suit at the very end, but it felt more like him flying on his own as his own man, meered

1:39:26

howl in a way.

1:39:28

That doesn't mean he won't have a suit.

1:39:30

But like in where our story ended, that just felt like the most poetic.

1:39:34

Yeah.

1:39:35

I'm so glad that Vanessa and them in the room too, because the bad version of that is that

1:39:39

like he gets his suit and his suit be like Foubu.

1:39:42

Oh, right.

1:39:43

Like Carl.

1:39:44

You know what I'm saying?

1:39:45

But look, I've asked you something just about how I actually have a couple of howl questions

1:39:49

before we move on to John number one.

1:39:52

Have you guys decided what manner you will resurrect Hal Jordan because you will.

1:39:58

And then number two, Hal Jordan is an interesting character because he is a classic comic book

1:40:05

character that still has enough anonymity that you can do different stuff with him.

1:40:10

Right.

1:40:11

Like if you guys were trying to do this with Bruce Wayne or with Clark Kent or with someone

1:40:15

like that, they'd have been pitch force out for you guys.

1:40:19

Totally.

1:40:20

There was some of that with Hal with people going, that's not my howl Jordan, that's not

1:40:23

my howl Jordan, that's not my howl Jordan.

1:40:25

But how did you guys decide just how much you could take this character and challenge the

1:40:30

audience with it?

1:40:31

We wanted to, we just tried to find things that were interesting to us and the things that

1:40:36

were real things you could talk about, about real people that aren't perfect.

1:40:42

There's nobody that's perfect in this show.

1:40:43

Do you know what I mean?

1:40:44

You know, it's Hal and Kerry and John and John's family.

1:40:48

I mean, everybody, you know what I mean?

1:40:49

They're just like kind of like constantly, they're just people.

1:40:53

You know what I mean?

1:40:54

So they're all, they're all flawed.

1:40:55

So we, we just wrote what was interesting to us and waited if there was pushback from

1:41:03

the people that we were making it for, they could tell us and we'd respond.

1:41:09

But like, I mean, Damon, I used to talk a bunch of just like, we're like, in the tradition,

1:41:15

someone does the, does their comic and then they put it out in the world and then the next,

1:41:19

the next run, somebody else does it.

1:41:20

Yeah, and it changes.

1:41:21

Yeah.

1:41:23

Like we're super aware that like we're the keepers of this story for a minute.

1:41:29

And then if some of the sticks, people will take some of it and run with it and change

1:41:36

it.

1:41:37

And I'll be psyched to see it.

1:41:38

You know, I think that's what's kind of cool about the forum.

1:41:40

It's like, it's shared storytelling.

1:41:42

You know what I mean?

1:41:43

And I, I, I.

1:41:44

I told Kildt College.

1:41:45

I don't know.

1:41:46

Like you, you're getting the game.

1:41:47

You're like, fuck.

1:41:48

Kildt College.

1:41:49

Like they're going to be something.

1:41:50

The last thing we've seen of Hal Jordan.

1:41:52

What?

1:41:53

Is this the last, you heard me.

1:41:54

Is this the last thing?

1:41:55

Is this the last thing that I'm sorry.

1:41:58

I'm sorry, is this the last thing that I'm sorry?

1:42:00

I have absolutely no idea.

1:42:01

You don't know, okay?

1:42:02

You're thinking of season two, so you actually,

1:42:05

I mean, there's a million, there's a million Wadefs.

1:42:07

That's a good thing about fiction, right?

1:42:09

You did not allude to some of those things

1:42:11

in this finale itself.

1:42:12

Like we have Sineshtro talking about,

1:42:15

bringing him back to life for real.

1:42:16

And the idea that, again, we know that he's in,

1:42:20

Man, it's tomorrow.

1:42:21

Is there any sort of idea in your minds of like,

1:42:25

are we gonna table set for a possible season two?

1:42:27

Are we gonna have something that is gonna,

1:42:29

like, at least allude to some other ideas?

1:42:32

Cause you see that a lot in other shows

1:42:33

that are almost too reliant on waiting for a second season

1:42:37

to kind of give us some big, oh shit moments.

1:42:40

We didn't write toward platforming for our season two.

1:42:45

We always wrote, assuming there would be a season two.

1:42:48

We didn't think of it as a limited series.

1:42:49

We thought of it, this is the show just gonna keep going on.

1:42:52

But it wasn't like, like, we were just trying to,

1:42:57

we were trying to buy the skin of our teeth

1:42:58

and finish this season, you know?

1:43:00

It wasn't like, oh, we've got a great idea for two and three.

1:43:02

So let's like, let's layer in.

1:43:04

Okay.

1:43:05

Some of it is just, you take a look at what you made

1:43:10

and what's interesting to you and what's useful

1:43:13

and then you go from there.

1:43:15

And hopefully you created characters

1:43:17

that you could do different things with

1:43:18

and put them in different situations.

1:43:20

Let's talk about Noah for a second.

1:43:22

You know, we were early adopters

1:43:23

in that Noah wasn't mad on him.

1:43:25

Like the man I was and it took me a second.

1:43:27

But the man had to carry things.

1:43:29

Peeped it from the first scene.

1:43:32

The moment that he walks over to him

1:43:34

and teaches him how to throw it all.

1:43:37

I was like, watch that kid as the man hunter.

1:43:39

I'd be convert them.

1:43:40

Yeah, I was.

1:43:41

You have to convert me.

1:43:42

I think they were on the board.

1:43:43

They were on it.

1:43:44

It took me a second.

1:43:46

And they have the conversation at the end with John.

1:43:48

That's like really point it and he's like,

1:43:50

you got to kill me.

1:43:50

I thought it was incredible.

1:43:51

But like what I really want to ask is,

1:43:53

why did you give him an online like that, man?

1:43:55

Oh my God.

1:43:56

I can't.

1:43:57

I know it.

1:43:58

I switched it though because in the actual game.

1:44:00

64 was the big.

1:44:02

I have some visa.

1:44:03

So I could say about that.

1:44:05

Yes.

1:44:06

I mean, it's lucky he's a man hunter

1:44:07

because of that online.

1:44:08

He's not getting any of your attention.

1:44:10

Yeah.

1:44:12

That's, I wasn't on set that day.

1:44:14

I was on set.

1:44:16

I would just say it's unfair to our incredibly talented,

1:44:22

lovely Russian director who I don't think

1:44:25

has ever watched a minute of American football.

1:44:28

When they put the extras out there,

1:44:30

one kid was like, 5'9", 1'30".

1:44:33

And he was like, it was what?

1:44:34

With number 29 and number 40.

1:44:36

I was just like, oh, shit.

1:44:38

And you can't really cut around it.

1:44:41

Like this.

1:44:42

I'm just like, he's scrambling for his life.

1:44:43

Like that.

1:44:44

He's just for this.

1:44:45

Yeah.

1:44:47

Yeah.

1:44:48

I don't feel like we, I feel pretty good.

1:44:50

And we didn't mess too many things up.

1:44:52

But like, it's so funny.

1:44:53

You said that because we've been talking about that internally

1:44:55

forever, like in the editing room.

1:44:57

I'm just like, oh God.

1:44:58

I'm telling you, it worked though,

1:44:59

because in the last episode,

1:45:00

but he's running for his life.

1:45:01

He is running for his life.

1:45:03

That's always good out the fling.

1:45:04

Yeah.

1:45:05

Exactly.

1:45:06

No, but like as him as a man,

1:45:07

like you guys are like seating that plot line.

1:45:10

You get to that conversation with John in the car.

1:45:13

And I can't remember the actress name for the life of me right now.

1:45:16

But he like really sells it about how.

1:45:19

Shae, who plays now.

1:45:19

Yeah.

1:45:20

How he's like, I want to be an omelcut.

1:45:23

I want to play football.

1:45:24

I want to do this.

1:45:25

But I have this like deep inside of me

1:45:27

that wants to take over the world.

1:45:28

Like when you are creating that character, again,

1:45:32

we're not supposed to know this until episode eight.

1:45:34

How do you like thread that needle?

1:45:36

So when we get to that moment in the car,

1:45:38

we're like, oh snap,

1:45:39

this is the kid who just wants to do good,

1:45:41

but has these internal demons inside.

1:45:43

Yeah, we tried to like have like tiny little hints at it.

1:45:46

You know what I mean?

1:45:47

It's like the day when all the shit goes down in Rushville

1:45:51

and Zoe comes over to him and just like remember everything

1:45:53

I told you, like those kind of things.

1:45:56

But then we also, you know, and him,

1:45:59

like I'm interested in politics when you know,

1:46:01

that first night, the time comes over to dinner.

1:46:04

So we wanted those little things.

1:46:09

But you don't, if you layer in too much

1:46:12

than everybody, I mean,

1:46:13

Vance not coming from the beginning,

1:46:14

but like, but like,

1:46:15

but like, then everyone sees it coming.

1:46:17

And they're like, why are we looking at this kid?

1:46:19

I'm like, oh, we're looking at this kid

1:46:20

because he's the murderer in the end, you know?

1:46:23

So it was a little tricky.

1:46:24

And for me, we talked so much about parenthood

1:46:28

and nature versus nature and programming for the manhunders,

1:46:33

but also John's upbringing and like what's,

1:46:36

what's me and what's just,

1:46:37

what my parents want for me and what's the difference

1:46:39

and all those kind of things.

1:46:41

And so for us, some of what layers into that conversation

1:46:46

that he did such a good job on in the car is knowing carry

1:46:50

and knowing like, is knowing like, she raised him.

1:46:54

And she's part, humanity's part that,

1:46:56

it's like, oh, she says the line in the,

1:46:58

in the final scene with how it's like,

1:47:00

I just thought if I loved him enough,

1:47:02

and like, is that enough?

1:47:04

And it's the gamble that John takes at the end, you know?

1:47:07

So we were, I was kind of hoping you'd see a little bit

1:47:11

of it from Noah, but then you'd feel the other from carry.

1:47:15

And even her fear for Noah,

1:47:20

mirroring Bernadette's fear for John,

1:47:23

and John's realization of like, oh, my mom was like,

1:47:26

scared every day of my life, you know what I mean?

1:47:28

She was teaching me to be fearless,

1:47:31

spending like, she was terrified of about what she was doing.

1:47:34

So we wanted it to kind of live inside those two moms

1:47:38

in a strange way.

1:47:39

That's an amazing balance.

1:47:40

I'm very curious because like to orchestrate that level

1:47:43

of narrative precision between characters,

1:47:46

it's a lot of time to make sure that you're spending it

1:47:50

adequately.

1:47:51

There's not a wasted scene.

1:47:52

Was there anything in the development of this

1:47:54

that you're like, I unfortunate,

1:47:55

we don't have time to lay this groundwork for something else?

1:47:58

Like, it's not maybe not so much a storyline,

1:48:00

but like, were there any beats that you missed

1:48:02

that you wish that you could have had?

1:48:04

No, there's actually a scene for,

1:48:06

no, not for the most part.

1:48:08

I mean, like there are a couple scenes that we shot

1:48:11

that aren't in that were,

1:48:14

there's a scene with another scene with Noah and John

1:48:17

that preceded that dinner scene,

1:48:19

where he talks a little bit more about that

1:48:21

and he talks about going maybe going to the Naval Academy

1:48:23

and all these kind of things.

1:48:25

That we were afraid might just might have just tipped it.

1:48:28

And there is a scene actually in the finale

1:48:34

where Kerry's there to pick up hell.

1:48:38

Right.

1:48:38

There is a scene where Bernadette's there too in the script.

1:48:41

Oh.

1:48:42

And there's a whole scene between them.

1:48:45

And then Bernadette's,

1:48:46

because Bernadette didn't know the Kerry was going to be there

1:48:48

and then said so she leaves and then there's Kerry.

1:48:51

And that we thought was going to help explain

1:48:57

the Bernadette hal thing, because it's weird thing,

1:48:59

like that they're friends, you know.

1:49:01

And it's all off.

1:49:02

You've just got to take our word for it

1:49:04

because I have enough screen.

1:49:06

So we had that, but it just felt cleaner

1:49:08

on the emotional line with just Kerry and Hal.

1:49:12

In true detective fashion, you know that detectives change.

1:49:17

I got to ask Kilowag, Kyle Rainer,

1:49:20

Simon Bez, you know, Hal is dead right now.

1:49:24

If you had to choose who were some of the lanterns on the board,

1:49:26

they're like, I would like to play with these people.

1:49:28

Vanessa's been talking a big kill log game for a long time.

1:49:31

Kilowag should be a long time.

1:49:33

You know, it's funny.

1:49:36

It's like we've tossed out a lot of different things.

1:49:38

I mean, again, we want to treat it all.

1:49:42

You know, we won't be back in Rushville,

1:49:43

most of all, unless something crazy happens in Rushville

1:49:45

every 10 years, but like, but you're going to be,

1:49:48

it's going to be an earth based story that we continue,

1:49:52

most likely.

1:49:53

I mean, we've shown that you can leave the planet.

1:49:56

So that's good.

1:49:58

But because of that, we want to make whoever's here

1:50:01

as sort of grounded and real as possible.

1:50:03

Our idea was just to like ground everything

1:50:06

and then layer on the other layers.

1:50:08

It's like, okay, you with us?

1:50:10

Great.

1:50:11

We're going to layer a little bit more in.

1:50:12

You know what I mean?

1:50:13

It's like even in the pilot and the constructs,

1:50:15

it's like the first thing Hal uses,

1:50:17

it makes us a $20 bill.

1:50:19

And then he makes, you know, a bottle opener.

1:50:21

By the end, he's like stopping that explosion,

1:50:25

but it's just like, it's like, okay,

1:50:29

are you with us?

1:50:30

Great.

1:50:31

Now we can expand.

1:50:33

And it's the same thing with introducing

1:50:34

like all the other lanterns and stuff.

1:50:36

But John Story.

1:50:38

Is John the character that you're like,

1:50:41

this is still what kind of grounds us

1:50:42

and the world is around him?

1:50:44

Yeah, I mean, I think all of them, but yes,

1:50:45

I mean, I think so.

1:50:47

You know, it's like, I mean, we set out to make a story

1:50:52

about John Stewart and we set out to make him

1:50:57

a fully dimensional character.

1:51:00

You know, there's a reason why the origin episode is John.

1:51:03

You know, I mean, you get a glimpse into Hal

1:51:06

at the top of seven, but like,

1:51:08

and he talks about it,

1:51:10

so hopefully we added a lot of depth to Hal too.

1:51:13

But like, we worked really hard to try to make John

1:51:17

a real fully fleshed out human.

1:51:21

So for John, in a way to create him,

1:51:24

the entire archetype of a superhero was subverted, right?

1:51:29

Before he becomes a superhero, you could argue

1:51:32

that he is at least partly responsible

1:51:35

for the deaths of dozens of people.

1:51:37

Before he even ever makes a save, right?

1:51:40

It's almost like you got subverted

1:51:42

and you really leaned into this guy starting off as a guy

1:51:45

as somebody who has his own vision and version

1:51:48

of what his destiny should be,

1:51:50

and then he will become this thing.

1:51:53

Is John Stewart of this world even a superhero?

1:51:56

Is this even a superhero show?

1:51:58

Because what we've seen recently in this mythology

1:52:04

is people grappling with things as human beings

1:52:07

and stuff like that.

1:52:08

And so I'm wondering,

1:52:12

do you see John Stewart?

1:52:14

Yeah, it's a really good question.

1:52:15

As a superhero.

1:52:16

I mean, yes.

1:52:17

But like, but I also,

1:52:19

and this is not me like evading the question,

1:52:21

but like I see superheroes as people too.

1:52:25

Okay.

1:52:26

And so like, so I think absolutely yes.

1:52:28

I don't think you can be someone that has that power

1:52:31

and puts that power, and can use it, you know,

1:52:35

but like, okay, well, how do you use that power, you know?

1:52:40

And those are very human decisions.

1:52:42

You don't like get blessed with full clarity

1:52:46

the day you get the ring.

1:52:47

Right.

1:52:48

You know?

1:52:49

So I think it's really interesting.

1:52:50

It's like, how do these real people deal

1:52:53

with these real powers?

1:52:55

But I think absolutely he's a superhero.

1:52:58

So to that point, I don't know if you know this,

1:53:02

but he's black.

1:53:03

All right.

1:53:04

So he is a black superhero.

1:53:06

And there is a lot of tension within even our community,

1:53:13

the community of nerds about the idea

1:53:16

of black superhero and black heroism, right?

1:53:18

The reason why Superman and Batman almost look

1:53:20

like they could be brothers is because

1:53:22

when America conjures a version of a hero,

1:53:24

that's what they see, right?

1:53:26

Right.

1:53:27

Um, this guy got a fate.

1:53:29

A crispy one at that.

1:53:30

Like, you know what I mean?

1:53:32

So we've obviously had brilliant people

1:53:35

from your right of room on this show of Vanessa and Justin.

1:53:39

What did you guys think of the challenge

1:53:45

of introducing a black superhero to the world?

1:53:49

I mean, it's sort of daunting

1:53:52

because it is like it does feel like a responsibility

1:53:55

and it's a real responsibility for whoever's gonna play it.

1:53:59

You know, it's gotta, it's gotta own it.

1:54:02

So, um, I mean, we talked a lot about, it's weird.

1:54:08

He's a hero, he's a superhero, right?

1:54:10

But we also wanted him to be,

1:54:12

we didn't want him to be perfect.

1:54:14

Like we didn't, he wanted him to be able to like make mistakes.

1:54:16

I mean, let's like, even like sleeping with Zoe in the pilot.

1:54:20

That's not a mistake.

1:54:21

That's what I said.

1:54:23

You got to get busy.

1:54:24

Sometimes you got to get busy, Chris.

1:54:26

I don't know.

1:54:27

Exactly.

1:54:27

Sometimes you got to get busy.

1:54:28

It was a long day.

1:54:29

Yeah.

1:54:30

What, did you guys see that John, he likes, he likes a milk?

1:54:34

He likes, he likes some older.

1:54:36

Was this like, this seems like a great place

1:54:37

to put this character?

1:54:38

Yeah, well, we were just like, okay,

1:54:40

we want him to make a very human, like maybe a mistake,

1:54:43

maybe not a mistake.

1:54:44

We were just like something complicated.

1:54:46

Something complicated right away.

1:54:48

And then we could use it and call it back

1:54:51

and it could be funny and all those things.

1:54:52

But like from the beginning, there was a lot of talk about like,

1:54:56

it's like, we don't want to, and I would talk to Aaron about,

1:54:59

it's like, look, you're a marine,

1:55:02

but marine is a job, not a personality.

1:55:04

You're also an artist.

1:55:06

You're also an architect.

1:55:08

And all those things are in there.

1:55:10

So like, you know, and so we wanted him to be,

1:55:16

we wanted him to get into making an imperfect person.

1:55:20

But you also, it was a real trick in the pilot, especially

1:55:23

because it's, you've got Kyle, who's, you know,

1:55:28

a guy in his late 50s and a white guy,

1:55:32

and John, who's like 30, and John's very yes or no, sir.

1:55:37

And there's a real danger in that, like right off the bat.

1:55:40

Right, because of the power dynamic.

1:55:41

By the power dynamic.

1:55:43

And it's in the Marines, but you also wanted to be able to be like,

1:55:46

like, it's why I had him say, like, how come every time you say,

1:55:49

yes, sir, it's more and more like, fuck you.

1:55:52

Like, you have to find that balance in there

1:55:54

and you always felt like you could sort of like, trip over it.

1:55:57

But the microaggressions that some people perceived coming from how to

1:56:01

John, real, do you see how Jordan, because this is a big deal about,

1:56:07

anytime you, there's a racial dynamic in the show, people are going to ask,

1:56:11

is race a factor here?

1:56:13

Race is always a factor.

1:56:14

Right.

1:56:14

So do you, from, from how Jordan to John Stewart, do you think part of the reason

1:56:18

why he was a little growing him is because there's something inside of him

1:56:21

is this character or racist?

1:56:23

I think, I think probably, I don't think he's a racist.

1:56:25

Okay.

1:56:26

But, but I think he's not fully educated in terms of,

1:56:33

how Jordan probably wouldn't know what a microaggression was.

1:56:36

Right.

1:56:37

Do you know what I mean?

1:56:38

And I think would have go to dinner with all his black friends and have a

1:56:45

really good night and not think anything of it, but also like, doesn't understand,

1:56:51

you know,

1:56:53

if, if you, if you've, if you've had privilege, you just accept it.

1:56:59

You know what I mean?

1:57:00

You don't think it's weird and default.

1:57:02

Yeah.

1:57:04

And so, you know, how needs to be taught a little bit just about,

1:57:10

you know, it's not his fault, but like, but also learn.

1:57:13

Yeah.

1:57:13

You know what I mean?

1:57:14

Let's like listen and learn.

1:57:15

Like, you know, and like even in the writer's room, as we talk about this stuff,

1:57:20

I mean, I have ideas about stuff and Damon S ideas stuff about stuff and

1:57:24

Bri has ideas about stuff.

1:57:26

Vanessa and Justin are both black people in the world that they say something.

1:57:31

And it's like, oh, no, that's what you think.

1:57:33

But, but I think this is like, oh, great.

1:57:35

I just, weren't like, just listen.

1:57:37

You know what I mean?

1:57:38

It's like, it's like, it's sometimes, I mean, it's not that simple because, of course,

1:57:43

you know, but like, but some of it is just like, we all listen to each other and

1:57:48

the character like how like, I think hopefully would evolve and listen a little bit more.

1:57:53

Right.

1:57:53

Because I think he's got a good heart.

1:57:55

Yeah.

1:57:55

My last question for you is like, you guys started this process, I believe two and a half

1:58:00

three years ago.

1:58:01

And superhero culture, superhero movies, things have changed.

1:58:07

Obviously, this is a big hit.

1:58:09

What have you kind of learned about what it takes to make a show that like,

1:58:14

maybe you avoid a lot of those pitfalls that other superhero shows are other

1:58:17

super media, superhero media might fall into.

1:58:20

I don't know if I will.

1:58:22

That's I don't know if you learned anything.

1:58:23

That's a terrible thing to say.

1:58:25

No, but like, I think for what I learned is what we thought going in, which is like,

1:58:33

we're not making a superhero show as much as we're making a show in which

1:58:37

they're superheroes walking around inside it.

1:58:40

And, and so just think about it like eight episodes that tell a story about these

1:58:45

people and inside it, all those other things exist.

1:58:49

Yeah.

1:58:50

But like, we're just trying to tell a story about people.

1:58:52

I mean, I know that sounds silly and stupid, but like, that's what we tried to do.

1:58:57

And then we're smart enough to know that we're inside this canna that has all

1:59:00

these things.

1:59:01

And like, you can do all sorts of cool weird things with it.

1:59:04

And we're not so dumb that we might use them.

1:59:07

And stuff were in the room.

1:59:09

So like, are you guys having that dynamic where it's like, okay, what are the things

1:59:14

in this world that we can use?

1:59:15

Is this too much because you have the Green Lantern movie where it's like,

1:59:19

yeah, that's a whole, that was just never going to happen.

1:59:22

I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, just in the movie, but just like,

1:59:25

there is never, it's never like, oh, let's get all the stuff.

1:59:28

It was like, what's our story?

1:59:29

Yeah.

1:59:29

You know, I mean, you know, it's like, I mean, we would talk about like, I talk

1:59:34

about ring charge another five minutes in my life.

1:59:36

I'm like, that ring was never charged.

1:59:41

Yeah.

1:59:42

Well, just how I look like the kind of person is like going to be able to keep on the ring.

1:59:46

I'll tell you what, the while we'll say about that ring is it holds on to that one

1:59:50

percent better than my phone.

1:59:51

Yeah.

1:59:52

Because I'm like, it's like, we got seven minutes left, 20 minutes later.

1:59:55

Yeah.

1:59:56

Use the ring one more time, right?

1:59:57

But, but no, but I actually appreciate the fact that the story was grounded.

2:00:01

I think the last thing for me is the last thing that John says to how is,

2:00:06

or at least, you know, version of how as I love you.

2:00:08

Yeah.

2:00:09

And I have to watch it.

2:00:13

I have to watch the scene like three or four times to get it.

2:00:15

I'm like, he's tricking him in the saying that, right?

2:00:19

And even in death, his craftiness is still there when you guys like, when you're like,

2:00:24

this is the last time we'll see how, but I mean, like, I mean, we talked about like,

2:00:29

they killed it.

2:00:30

They killed him.

2:00:31

He's dead.

2:00:32

He's, uh, his hologram, like, you know, vanishes it there.

2:00:35

I feel like, like, after everything you've dragged these characters through, I would,

2:00:40

I couldn't have imagined them at the end being like, I love you.

2:00:43

I love you too.

2:00:44

Right.

2:00:45

When you bring it to that, like, apex in your head, do you like, are you like, hopefully,

2:00:49

the audience understands what that means?

2:00:51

Or are you just like, they gonna say, let's let it fly.

2:00:54

No, we want it like, we want to do have earned that.

2:00:57

And even like in a little way, like, the whole time the hologram never called him Junior.

2:01:02

He always called him trainee.

2:01:04

Ha.

2:01:05

I mean, the last line is, I love you too, Junior.

2:01:09

And so it's like the closest thing he's going to get to real how in that thing.

2:01:17

And to us, it's like crazy.

2:01:20

But we talked about the movie Ghost, a bunch.

2:01:22

Really?

2:01:23

Yeah.

2:01:24

And because in Ghost, there's like literally like, it's a love story between Demi Moore and

2:01:29

Patrick Swasey and like, but by the end, like, he's, he's gone.

2:01:32

Yeah, he's still dead.

2:01:33

You know, we didn't have them make a pot together.

2:01:36

You know, right?

2:01:37

It's like, I think in the second half, maybe in the end of the book.

2:01:41

Yeah, yeah.

2:01:42

Ghost, you know, how Jordan is the specter in the comic.

2:01:45

I hope so again.

2:01:46

I don't know, a visiting spirit.

2:01:48

So I've heard, we just love Kyle Chandler, man.

2:01:51

Like, that's what it is.

2:01:52

You can't leave that one.

2:01:53

I'm not.

2:01:54

How can you not?

2:01:55

How can you not?

2:01:56

I mean, we also got, especially like, with how being a little grumpy, like, if Kyle wasn't

2:02:03

so likable at his core, like, you couldn't get away with it exactly.

2:02:09

I mean, he's, he's so good.

2:02:11

And he's also like, I think just because he's Kyle Chandler, he's like, oh, yeah, he's

2:02:14

just like, you just forget how good he is.

2:02:16

Yeah.

2:02:17

And how much skill he has, you know?

2:02:19

Yeah.

2:02:20

But, uh, but some of that too is just like, oh, like, because it's like, he can be a bit

2:02:25

of an asshole, the John, because like in the end, like, you know, he's kind of playing.

2:02:28

He's kind of hazing him, but it's also like, Kyle just like, yeah.

2:02:32

That's perfect.

2:02:33

Chris, we're gonna get you out of here, man.

2:02:34

We really appreciate your time and also a thank you to you for creating a world where a

2:02:39

light woman can kill her partner with absolutely no consequences.

2:02:42

Hey, she's just trying to line his head and she, she's got brunch at the cafe on Sunday,

2:02:50

the police, the cops, ball, I tell you what, man, you get some good, you get some bad

2:02:54

things.

2:02:55

We appreciate your time.

2:02:59

We really appreciate the show.

2:03:01

I was so glad you guys appreciate it.

2:03:03

I like, it hasn't been so thoughtful about it.

2:03:06

Like, it's incredible.

2:03:07

Like for real, it's like, it's cool.

2:03:09

You guys like really get inside it and like, it's awesome.

2:03:13

Well, thank you so much.

2:03:14

Thank you so much for joining us.

2:03:16

Thank you, James.

2:03:17

All right.

2:03:18

Monday was fantastic.

2:03:19

By the way, shout out to the cast and crew.

2:03:20

Not the cast.

2:03:21

We haven't had none of them.

2:03:22

It was on so I'm just, no, just joking.

2:03:23

Shout out to the crew of Lanterns and everyone who's been really, really involved in this

2:03:27

conversation.

2:03:28

We haven't really enjoyed covering this show.

2:03:31

Yeah.

2:03:32

And not because of any relationships that we have with anyone, just because this was

2:03:35

a good television.

2:03:36

It was really good.

2:03:37

We actually like, we didn't know that Lanterns was going to become what it became.

2:03:41

I don't want people to think like, oh, shit, we were so, I was like, no, the show,

2:03:45

we liked the show and people were reaching out.

2:03:46

Best seasons of Super Out Television.

2:03:48

Ever?

2:03:49

No listeners though.

2:03:50

No, the best season.

2:03:51

Oh, new listeners.

2:03:52

No listeners.

2:03:53

Guys, if you found this for Lanterns, we should give them a little bit of a taste of

2:03:55

what we doing for the rest of the year.

2:03:57

We got Dune's Day coming up.

2:03:59

Dune's Day.

2:04:00

Vision Quest.

2:04:01

Yeah.

2:04:02

Godzilla.

2:04:03

Playface.

2:04:04

Oh, yeah.

2:04:05

Street Fighter maybe.

2:04:06

Street Fighter.

2:04:07

Why not?

2:04:08

We got a lot of concept.

2:04:09

We got a lot of content coming and you guys are more, more than welcome to revisit any

2:04:16

old episodes.

2:04:17

If you're new to the Midnight Boys and you want like, a idea of how this all got started,

2:04:23

which episodes do they listen to?

2:04:25

The Black Superheroes draft.

2:04:26

The Black Superheroes draft.

2:04:27

The Black Superheroes draft.

2:04:29

Number one, go back.

2:04:30

That was our origin story.

2:04:31

That was our surf track.

2:04:32

They are, they are out there.

2:04:33

Is that on YouTube?

2:04:34

Yeah.

2:04:35

I think that was our first, that was our first video.

2:04:37

What a debut.

2:04:38

First video pie.

2:04:39

We appreciate all the support and this show is hugely successful for HBO and also for

2:04:44

our own videos.

2:04:45

Oh, yeah.

2:04:46

Okay.

2:04:47

Okay.

2:04:48

All right.

2:04:49

Programming mind is on Monday.

2:04:50

The House of R continues their lanterns coverage, which is going up.

2:04:51

He's going up over there.

2:04:53

Easter eggs.

2:04:54

Breadcrumbs.

2:04:55

Theories.

2:04:56

All that stuff.

2:04:57

You're not going to want to miss the finale.

2:05:00

2:05:00

2:05:00

2:05:00

2:05:00

2:05:00

2:05:00

2:05:00

2:05:00

2:05:00

2:05:00

as covered by Malinjo on Wednesday.

2:05:02

Rearrest recommends his back.

2:05:04

Big Coal Limber.

2:05:06

Big Coal Limber.

2:05:06

Big Coal Limber putting it down.

2:05:08

Big Coal.

2:05:09

We got a check in.

2:05:10

On Friday, Budmash covers Valor Mortis and Forever Ago.

2:05:15

Yeah, that's one.

2:05:16

That's the weird one.

2:05:17

Valor Mortis and Forever Ago.

2:05:19

Forever Ago.

2:05:19

I can't not wait to play Forever Ago.

2:05:22

You're not gonna play that.

2:05:23

You will play Galactic Grace or though?

2:05:25

Galactic Grace or I will play?

2:05:26

You will love that.

2:05:28

Yes, Rachel.

2:05:28

Our producers today are Devin Broldy, Jamie Eukits and John Jones.

2:05:32

Jomey Adinner on on social.

2:05:34

That's the old one.

2:05:35

I was gonna go Bob.

2:05:36

Additional reduction from Arjuna Ram Gopal.

2:05:39

Hashtag.

2:05:41

It was gonna be Bob and Weave Jomey.

2:05:42

Woo, Bob and Weave Jomey.

2:05:44

Hashtag.

2:05:44

Bob and Weave Jomey.

2:05:45

Bob and Weave.

2:05:46

There you go.

2:05:47

Bob.

2:05:48

Check, take us out.

2:05:49

We're not gonna do the oath.

2:05:51

Oh God.

2:05:52

I think I'm not doing a we didn't talk about that.

2:05:53

Fuck that, do oath.

2:05:55

Don't wait for it.

2:05:56

You're not a special nigga.

2:05:57

You just say the regular oath though.

2:05:59

Well, he can't say the regular oath

2:06:00

because he's not a Green Lancer.

2:06:01

You didn't like his new oath.

2:06:02

We didn't talk about it.

2:06:03

We should talk about it.

2:06:04

It's actually a hold in the show.

2:06:04

You didn't like the you didn't like his new oath.

2:06:06

No, Nick is trying to remix it.

2:06:07

Like just don't be special.

2:06:09

Before we do, we make we make it our own.

2:06:11

He is special.

2:06:12

He's not he's he said that old.

2:06:15

The judge where he wrapped fucking outcasts.

2:06:17

Right.

2:06:18

So you didn't like the oath.

2:06:19

Can anybody remember the oath off the top of the head?

2:06:20

I cannot.

2:06:21

I wrote it down, but I don't have enough time.

2:06:23

Okay.

2:06:24

What was it?

2:06:24

And black as day and nigga night.

2:06:26

No white man will ever steal my light.

2:06:29

Hey, you do it.

2:06:31

You're gonna get it now.

2:06:32

You're gonna get it now.

2:06:33

Baby, bring it home.

2:06:35

Bring it home.

2:06:36

Bring it home.

2:06:41

So I take that light.

2:06:42

Black as day and nigga night.

2:06:45

No white man will ever steal my light.

2:06:48

Let all these crackers that think they right.

2:06:50

Whoa.

2:06:51

You got it.

2:06:53

We all got it.

2:06:54

We all got it.

2:06:55

We all got it.

2:06:56

We all got it.

2:06:58

We got it.

2:06:59

One more first.

2:07:00

One more first.

2:07:02

Let all these crackers that think they right.

2:07:06

Bitware of black power.

2:07:08

Mother fucking right.

2:07:09

Yeah.

2:07:10

Yeah.

2:07:11

Yeah.

2:07:12

Yeah.

2:07:12

Yeah.

2:07:22

2:07:22

This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market.

2:07:27

Now, this is a player in the food space

2:07:29

that has championed winning food standards

2:07:31

and quality since 1980.

2:07:32

That means no added growth hormones or antibiotics

2:07:35

in their meat and no synthetic nitrates or nitrites

2:07:39

in their deli meats, hot dogs or sausages,

2:07:42

plus all their seafood is responsibly farmed or wild caught.

2:07:46

They've even banned some ingredient store-wide

2:07:48

to make sure there's nothing to mess with the flavors you want.

2:07:51

Shop Whole Foods Market and store or online.

2:07:55

This is US Banks' Cozy Cash Formations

2:07:57

with your Chief Financial Playmaker for Nando Mendoza.

2:08:01

You are worthy of financial security,

2:08:05

budgeting is now restriction, it's freedom.

2:08:08

You are smart, you are capable.

2:08:11

You are giving your money a purpose.

2:08:15

You are learning the language of saving, of growing.

2:08:20

And now streaming.

2:08:22

Member FDIC Copyright 2026, US Bank.