NBA One Guy (the East!), a Man City Punishment Primer, and Tom Cruise’s Bomb With J. Kyle Mann, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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All right, Jiccom, Manus here.

He pops on this podcast, The Bunchster and the NBA season.

You can also earn him on the Ringer NBA show.

We've got some video stuff for us too.

He loves rookies.

He loves college guys.

Which rookie if I gave you AJ, Caleb, Booser and Peterson?

Now that we're within like less than three weeks to the season.

Which one of you are the most excited to see?

Combining where you felt before the draft,

what happened in the draft, where they went to and then all the buzz and all the stuff

you're reading as we head into October 21st here.

Gosh, it's just, there's a flavor.

It's a real bask in Robyn situation where if you catch me in the right mood,

I could just give you any of these guys.

I'm excited for kind of different reasons.

I mean, Caleb Wilson is going to have, like we've talked to you and I have a lot about this.

I mean, he's going to probably win Twitter the most often.

I think there's going to be many of those like Blake Griffin-y rookie year type moments

where we're just like, did you see what he just did?

Peterson will get hot.

DeBonzel have his moments.

I think I probably still just go Booz or just, I know that's the boring answer.

And he may be perceived as boring, but I think if you even watched him in the

preseason game last night against the Hawks, he's trimmed his body down.

He immediately was just doing winning Cam Booz or type of things.

And so I'll stick with that one because I had him number one at the end of the college season.

So you came to the LA office and you did a whole bunch of group chats with

Mahoney and Varyer.

And I actually was in the office and I just crashed your Memphis and New Orleans section.

So the pot, I don't think it's going up with all of us love Memphis for being better than,

you know, I think on Fandall, they're 29 and a half.

And I think the biggest reason is just Boozers seems like he's going to come in right away and be

19 and 10 guy.

I'm the most excited for Caleb just because of, I think for the first month of league pass,

I kind of know what Boozers is as much as I'm going to enjoy watching that Memphis team in their

identity. Peterson, I think we'll be hit or miss. There's going to be games you catch him on

the right night and you're like, oh my God, we've been at a two guard like this since forever.

AJ is probably in the worst spot because I don't know how much he's going to have the offense

running through him and he's playing with Trey. But then Caleb, it just feels like it's the

ceiling has been removed for where it could go. I have no idea where it's going to go.

And he's one of the guys we're going to do an NBA one guy gimmick in a second.

But he's clearly the guy for the Booz run like I literally can't wait to watch this.

Yeah, I mean, and there's a lot of runway for him to to experiment and be messy because they're not

in a hurry to be good. Obviously, and you know, he and Boozellus with with splitter. I'm just

interested to see how he uses them. You know, they imported some shooting when they went and got

the buddy healed thing done just to just they needed they just needed another space or to go with

Norm Powell. So yeah, I mean, he's going to I think you're right. I mean, Boozellus kind of

they got you just kind of set it and it's going to just run. I don't even know what the appliance

comparison would be. But you just know that that thing is safe. Wilson is going to he's going to have

on both ends of the floor. I think he's going to have electric moments where he just erased,

you know, chase down blocks things like that. So I think night night to night. I mean, the

the texting. I don't I don't think there's going to be a as much of that with Boozell right? They'll

like, you believe what he just did, but it's just going to kind of hover at the same speed,

whereas Caleb's going to spike really high at moments. And he's also going to a fan base that

desperately needed somebody like this since forever. That this is there's real energy around this

team now. We're going to play. I'm calling this NBA one guy. So we're doing the East today,

you and I, and I'm going to do the West on Thursday. But this is one guy from each team

that jumps out to me from a kind of swinging the ceiling or the floor of the team itself,

but also I'm really interested by the position they're in. So I told you I could have mailed all

these two or you could have just played off in. You were like, add lib baby, let's go. I don't

want to know any of these guys. You like you like to surprise me. So I figured I'd just say that.

Well, I was going to go in alphabetical order in the conference, but we'll go out of order because

Caleb was my Chicago guy because he's checked every single buzz box so far. But I'm going to tweak it.

It's him and Bicellus together. And if you read, you do the training camp, like just reading the

coverage of the team, those guys have already bonded and seem like their Bicellus is smartly aligned

with him. But I also kind of like the matchup of the two of them together that makes sense to

me as a combo. And I think there's going to be something there. Like all their early indications

are like, you know, somebody wrote a huge, I think it was ESPN wrote a huge Caleb piece. And

there was some anonymous quote from a team source and they were like, we think we have a guy.

And when you started seeing stuff like that, that was like when the Patriots got Drake,

May, like you see this with quarterback sometimes you see with the NBA, but when

when the organization is like, oh shit, we have a guy. And it feels like that's happened on

a, but Bicellus, I think both of us have liked, never felt like he clicked with Donovan.

But them as the three and the four together kind of makes sense to me. I don't like Nick

Clackson necessarily as the center for that. But those guys as the three and four, let's see what

this is going forward. Long term makes sense to me. Yeah, we saw little flat. I was

unsure what to make of these else when he was coming out of G League night. But he's kind of slowly

wanting, he's very chaotic good, which I think is what this tandem is going to be. Like it's

going to be, I said messy before with both of them. Yeah. It's like Bicellus showed little flashes

of playing in ball screen a little bit. I was revisiting a lot of that stuff in our in our prep

for our preview thing. And I was like, he's going to have to, he still dribbles really high when he's

in traffic. He's going to have to work on a lot of those things and not to step on, you know,

a point I made about him with a with an on on our pie, we elaborate on it in a lot of detail. But

I the way Thiago splitter rolled out, Danny, you know, last year in the way that he empowered him

to get down hill, I could see him taking a similar mindset with with Bicellus. So that that in

that sense and defensively, I think that they're going to be pretty electric too. These are like

too crazy crazy athletes. Yeah. That was my thought too with splitter. The Denny point,

I didn't think of that. But if I if I'm coached in this team, I just want both of those guys to be

going downhill and running and just being athletic, being in space and both those guys can do it.

I thought Bicellus really had moments last year. And then there would be moments where he just

didn't play and you never really knew what the objective of the team was. But I thought

athletically he's top of the line. And then Wilson is the level above him athletically. So you put

those two together. And I just think there's going to be some really fun nights. There's going to be

some ugly nights. But there's going to be nights when the crowd, especially they haven't had a

home crowd and so long that's really been pumped about the team. They're going to have nights at home.

I think when they're going to be flying up and down, especially Gidey. So if you're looking at Gidey

too, like this is like the perfect kind of toy chest for him. These two athletes who just want to

run and want to go to the rim. So I'm excited for those two together. All right, we'll go in alphabet

a quarter from from here on one guy at Lanna. My guy is Lou Dort for this team. And it's not a sexy

pick. 27 years old contract year. Playoff 3's last three years, 39% and 24, 34% then 31%

last year. And it got to the point where it felt like the other team was dying for him to shoot.

Right. It was like, we'll take our chances with Lou Dort. Presti dumped him. Never a great sign.

I trust St. Presti. And you could say it's salary cap. I get it. But if they really wanted to keep

him like they wanted to keep heart and sign, they would have kept Lou Dort. They felt like they'd be

okay without him. But I look at him with Atlanta and I think about like if they're going crunch time

and it's McCollum and Dort, Alexander Walker, Jaylen Johnson and a Kongrue. Right.

I kind of like it. And then you could go super small if you wanted like super small and just put

Daniels in for a Kongrue and just play Jaylen as the smallest small ball five and maybe have

Dort guard. Big guys, but he gives them a physicality and something that they didn't have. And I also

think he's going to have a huge chip on a shoulder. So to me, he's the swing guy for them.

If he if he could be 2024 Lou Dort, I think that's a massive thing for them.

Yeah, it's interesting to think about like why Presti would offload him because I've been kind of

going through and looking at like Wiggins ends up with them as well as A. Jones ends up with the

pistons. Yeah. It kind of made me have flashbacks to Presti with his connection to the Spurs.

Kind of makes your mind go here where you're like, there was a funny thing that happened with the

Spurs where they would have role players sort of leave their little community at some point. And we

would value those guys super, super high. And I caught myself having a moment where I was like,

is that going to happen again? Are we going to have that thing where they're with their value

was affected by being within the thunder ecosystem like Danny Green syndrome almost.

Yeah, or like, or what was was it Gary? I'm blanking on his name. We got hit all the ton of

threes in the in the finals. Gary, whatever. Or speedy clacks, Denarm. Remember didn't you get a big

deal after I think it was 2003. I just kind of wonder if we might see that again. I don't know

that that's the system. So you're saying like the system role players when they leave the lead the

nest. It's not the same. What was that Gary guy? Are we that old? We can't remember the guy.

Gary Neil. Gary Neil. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'd wondered about that. It's

yeah, you hit it there with a lineup thing. I mean, Daniels can guard up and guard bigs.

This team has still has a lot of overlap between their guys. Even like you don't read a lot

into preseason, you know, you try not to, but watching them, I'm like, I do expect Kingston to have

a positive impact on them. Like, I think he'll play early. Yeah. But it still feels like there's

the road map is just not totally there yet. Like, it kind of made me wonder. It got my wheel

spinning about like, are they a team that's going to have a potential to make to push in?

Because they're a small one or something. Yeah. Like some. I was trying to figure out I was like,

who could they put on? Because I was looking at it. I was like, Kyrie doesn't really make sense

for Dallas and Atlanta to do business together because they both have kind of similar needs.

Right? It's like Dallas isn't like what we don't need more non creators or whatever it is. And then

I was like, maybe Garland. I don't know. I was kind of trying to look across the league about

what kind of a guard or creator could give them more often because I kind of wonder at the end of

the day of Jalen Johnson is probably like at the highest type of a team like a second or third

type guy. Yeah. I've been wondered about that. Well, they also have the ability to trade toward

if they wanted. That's I was wondering that at 17 million that guy is definitely a February piece.

Atlanta is a team to me that seems unfinished. And a lot of it is tied around how he fits in and then

if Fleming's is going to be good or not this year, 20 year old guards. I'm just not going to

make a prediction. You might end up with Jeremiah Fears. You might end up with James Booknight.

You just don't know. Boston. Who do you think my guy is for Boston to discuss? If you had to guess.

Ron Harper Jr. Oh, I do like Ron Harper Jr. No, I'm going to I'm going in chalk here with Paul

George. Always down to talk about George 36 years old. 17th NBA season. He's played 945

regular season games 125 playoff games. And since 2019, a seven year run, he's missed 213 games

including 41 and 45 the last two years. But then you flip it around the other way in the 2020s.

22, 6 and 4 39% from 3 statistically sexy. Good sexy statistical profile.

If you're for his career, yeah, I'm sure. And I guess I was trying to figure out if he's ever

been in a better NBA situation, which is weird because he's not not the same guy he was four years

ago. But just from a Hey, Paul George, anything you do for us is a bonus. If you're good,

that's fucking great. If you don't have it or you little banged up or whatever, we don't really

need you. We have all these other young guys we can throw into your spot. I'm thinking so Jaylin

played 20 2443 minutes last year, which Tatum basically is just going to take because Tatum's back.

Tatum is usually around 26 2700 minutes. Hugo and Shireman were around 2200 combined.

I think if I think they need 55 Paul George games during the regular season and 1500 is 1600 good

minutes. So he doesn't play all the time, but when he plays, he's around 28 minutes.

You can switch with him. I think him and Tatum together are going to be really fun to watch.

He's two tall guys who can guard every position on the floor. And Dave sold me on this guy will

actually play off Jayla Jason better than Jaylin did, which is just going to be true. As you know,

I love Jaylin Brown. But I think he could be a really additive piece to them and I've talked

myself into it. So tell me there, I'm crazy or I'm right. The idea of Paul George is one of the

all time like the idea of a player. He's one of the East like first ballad on that because

you're right. The statistics are like, you know, 15, 20 years from now when people look back and

talk about him, it's going to be pretty interesting because he at times has been in elite picking

at six nine has been like an elite, you know, picking role player in the league. He's been in elite

movement, not just catching shoot, but he can move left or right when he's shooting the ball.

Right. He can really pass the ball to you. I think he's one of the all time like for guys his

size that are smooth, fluid handlers like he's he's great. But I think the thing that is those

things change as you get older, obviously. And I think you're going to see it in smaller doses.

I think where he's going to jump on and improve some of what, you know, Brad Stevens was trying

to improve on and crunch time for them is he's a good he's a better pastor than Jaylin is. And I

think he's a more dependable decision maker than Jaylin is. He's bigger. He's definitely at that

stage of his career like that 2022-ish kind of like Iguodala phase where and this is this is part

of basketball is once you hit a certain age, you become incredible at stripping people. This is

I found this in my own life. I just think because I was rewatching the matchups between it's so

funny that these guys ended up playing getting traded for each other Jaylin and Paul. He was irritating

Jaylin because he just anticipates and you know, I think he's going to become more of that type of

a player like yeah, not necessarily shuttling and mirroring guys. I think the other thing for

the Celtics too is people keep looking at this as like a one to one Jaylin versus PG thing. I

think and I'll you know, I laughed a lot over the years. We never you would talk about Peyton

Pritchard about him taking responsibility, but he's just gotten better every single year. So I

think it's going to be just an aggregate aggregate like guys taking a bite out of what's left there

in Jaylin's absence. And I think Pritchard is one of them. Yeah, if you just think about it

holistically, the offense is going to run through Tatum and then Pritchard. And if Tatum's

not in the game, the offense will probably run through Pritchard, but maybe a little Paul George

too. And I spurts. Yeah, I wonder like how much they're going to stagger these guys and not have

them out there. But I've talked myself into it because I thought he was really good in the play

offs last year. And I was coming off a 25 game break for whatever he tested positive for.

And then he came back for 10 games, then the playoffs. But he was really good in the playoffs.

And we've seen these NBA guys as they hit their mid 30s. They do have a they only need one good

year from them. Next year he's an expiring and they have Hugo and they have Charmin who they're

going nuts about. And it's a to me, it reminds me a little of a fairly situation where you have

these other options if somebody doesn't play, right? It's like Paul George is playing tonight.

Well, we're fine. We have Charmin. We also played 1200 minutes last year, Harper and then Hugo

and they'll patch it together. But I think the ultimate goal would be what does this look like in

the playoffs in a series? Can you count on him every other night? Things like that. That I have no

idea, but I do think they can get 55 games, 1600, 1500, somewhere in there minutes. And I think

that fans are going to like him. I can't believe I'm saying that, but I just think he's an additive

player. You like him less if he's one of your two guys that are going to decide whether you win

the title or not. But he's like not one of their five guys. So we're going to decide whether

they're a title team. He's in a much better situation. So I fully drank in the cool aid. I poured

it all over myself. And I think he's going to be additive for them. I think he's regressing a

little bit into like overqualified role player status. 100% totally. And but and but I think that's okay.

And I you're thinking about like the best basketball situations he's been in. This will probably

be the bet. I just keep thinking about cumulative passing when I think about the Celtics. You think

about Derek Y you think about Jason has always been a little bit better at that. Not that everything's

about Jalen, but he's always been the better the two about getting off the ball. I just think

they're going to have a lot of good pastors on the floor where it's not going to bottle neck. And

if you think about the teams that Paul's been on last year with in B with Maxi with the it's just

the ball didn't move quite as well. No, you're standing in the quarter. Yeah. Yeah. I think this will be

he's going to be an overqualified connector too. I think I still don't understand the trade.

But I at least understand the trade. I wouldn't have done it, but I get why they did it. And I think

it was a basketball decision for them with the minutes and all the players. And I just don't think

it was sustainable with those two guys. I think they thought we've hit the ceiling with this. We won

the title. We need to get out of this Brooklyn. I have Michael Porter Jr. for this one because I

thought about them and because them and their some interesting stats with them. Like you have this

crazy month where shot like 44% and he has size and I'm intrigued by him. But I went with Porter

because he's the total internet podcast package. He is first team all NBA trade machine. He'll

be in the trade machine until the deadline in mid February. Well, it'll just be just throw him in.

He's got the good stats bad team stuff. He's a really good and I think Randall's like this too.

We don't want to finish in the bottom three. Can you win a couple games for us and get some stats

and maybe push us into the bottom five or six. So we're not in the bottom three. And then just as

maybe the craziest interview of anyone in the league. I wrote down just some of the things.

He said he once texted Yokehage had to approach and date a Slavic woman and Yokehage left him unread.

This was a today. He once said a McDonald's all American high school team would absolutely beat

the woman's Olympic team. He said he wouldn't date anyone who has dated another NBA player. It's just

the automatic cross off. He said the Porter family has vices. His brother loved gambling and he

loves women. He shared that. He accidentally put Adam Silver's number on Snapchat. Do you remember

this? This was a few years ago. That happened. No. He said in a podcast that he tests potential

girlfriends by throwing on Andrew Tate to see how they react. And then back in 2020, he said he

thought COVID was used for population control. So I'm excited for him in a free agent year. I don't

know what he's capable of. We have more podcasts to go on. I don't think he's really, I think he's

going to be letting it fly. And he's a trade machine guy. Michael Porter Jr. I'm in.

Yeah, it's interesting. Some of the risk for somebody who gets the get shots up. Some of the

riskiest and most harmful shots that that that Porter takes are when he's in front of a microphone.

And I was just thinking that whenever you relaunch the hottest take, you were giving me the tour and

showing where that where that would be taking place. Bring him bring him in. Bring him in cold.

Yeah. Bring bring Porter in cold and just like turn the mic on and just let him start speaking.

And you'll be able to just kind of trim it into episode. Right. We'll get like a half hour of

straight content. Yeah. Look, he's an expired contract, I think at 37 million.

A good team is going to trade for him. Yeah, for sure. Well, Detroit would have made a whole

lot of sense. It had interesting that you hear people. I think Bernthal was talking about this

because Bernthal's dad was a basketball coach. I think or something. He was saying your

personal, your play style reflects your personality. And it is so fucking funny.

Porter, Jr's personality absolutely is reflected in the way he plays basketball.

We're just no conscience. Just yeah, absolutely doesn't doesn't second guess anything. But he's still

for all the joking around. It's like he's 6'10 and he is just an incredible, you know, he can get

a shot up in any situation. Even if it's a closeout, even if he's driving, I mean, he hits shots

over Anthony Davis. Like he's just he's he's one of the most talented shooters in the world.

And he happens to be 6'10 and you're right. Some team is going to look around and just go,

let's add that. And I've also been encouraged to buy him coming to this team. He his quote,

something sensible that he said was that he wanted to be an even better off-ball player. It's like

in a way he kind of knows who he is. I was glad he wasn't coming in there and just being like

all eyes on me. He it's it's not a harmful way that he plays. It's 28 years old.

This will be probably his last big contract. If you catch him on the right night,

coming off screens and just firing, he seems unstoppable. I think he from all the guys from

this decade, I think he's going to be the number one blank was a problem video that we have in

2039. I think there's going to be a three minute Michael Porter Jr. thing where it's like,

this is kind of the best part of all time. Do you see the do you see the prompt that put out last night?

I said we should just start challenging ourselves to see how hard we can make it like just to pick.

Oh, what a player. Yeah, somebody suggested we make a coast of Kufus. He was a

problem video and I'm working on that my spare time right now. Interesting. Yeah, like a Greg

steam. Yes, you need to really pour some tape for that one. But yeah. All right, next next team is

Charlotte. Nasrida's easy pick for this 27 years old. Last three years 14 and six 38% from three 25

minutes of game. Beloved teammate, I think he's the guy who could be on the floor in the last five

minutes of a good game. Oh, we know that. Yeah. Which they needed. Here's what's interesting to

me because they traded a mellow and you would think the Charlotte threes would go backwards. They made

16.43 is a game last year, which led to lead the league. It's a lot of threes. Miller, Khan,

Kobe White, Grayson Allen who they have now, Nasrida and O'Neal. Those guys combined. Just those six

made 16.4 made threes a game last year. And I wonder, could this team potentially make like

19 threes a game 18 and a half? What's the ceiling for that? And then how much of an advantage

is that going to be? Because we're seeing this in baseball where they look at all these different

inefficiencies for regular season. And lately it was like defense or Tampa Bay just always

acts against where everybody's going. And with Charlotte, I wonder like if you're making 18,

19 threes a game, is that worth like 10 wins? And then could Nasrida played 30 minutes a game

instead of 25? Can he play with both with the Abate and without him? Or are they going to play

him a powerful or a standback? But I think how that use him is going to be the key to this team

because I like all the other pieces. Yeah, it seems like that's been the recurring thing you hear

from people is just, you know, they want to get these threes up. But how are they going to create

them? And you assume that, you know, Lamello not being there, I kind of think it might just be a

little bit of a stylistic shift because you don't have like the elite, you know, pass or

playmaker picking roll guy. But I've kind of wondered if they might go a little more

warriorsy where they're depending on their movement shooting and just kind of playing

and then getting cutting from that. I think that's what they want to do. I think they want to have

I think they want to run a lot of the stuff through Miller and Khan and then Kobe White

asked the two, but a lot of where it's just way less predictable than just Lamello dribbling the ball.

Yeah. And something interesting and underrated about Nas is he can handle the ball really well

for his size. So he'll be able to like space the floor effectively in a way that Miles didn't

and then he can drive his position really well. So that he just he's a really versatile piece.

We'll see if the Wolf fans there how hard work and they are over the course of this season just

missing him. Not just because he was a great vibes guy, but he is really, really versatile,

like really, really skilled for his size. Shot heavy, heavy volume spot up three's last year and

hit 40% of them. So Charlotte really leaning into their shooting thing even if the means

to the end is going to be a little bit different this year. He's always been a good per 36 guy.

He's always been a good eye test guy. And I like the fact that you know in your head it feels like

he's been around forever, which Luthorts like this too. It's like you're only 27.

I was going to 2019. Yeah. You can't tell me he was 32. I would have believed that, but yeah,

it's only 27. So I think Charlotte, the other key for them will be how much how much can

Khan, how much can stuff run through him, right? Because we forget Khan really flamed out the last

three weeks of the season and in the playoffs. And I don't know how healthy it was, but it cost

him the rookie of the year. But these year two guys, and we're going to see it with flag two and

a couple others. Like year two, you make a huge jump. You're now you're used to the schedule.

You've worked on conditioning different things to get. You know what you kind of need to do.

And I think for him, he'll be, I think he'll be in good shape, but I also think he's going to be

ready to run plays and offense for them, which I don't know. I always felt like when they did

pick and pop with him. And he had the ball. And it's either he was throwing it back to whoever

said him the pick or he was just playing off the pick and shooting. I was thought that was unstoppable.

And I want to see like, can you do that with Nas Reed? Can you do this? And then the other one is

Steinback. What is he going to look like for them as like a rebounder? Because it feels like

they're a little later rebounders. Anyway, okay. For Cleveland, it's clearly paid Watson.

24 years old.

Signs of four year 88 million dollar deal. Kyle, his first three years, he was seven points a game.

19 minutes a game, 33% from three. In the 25 playoffs, which is less than a year and a half

ago, he played 14 minutes a game for them. And then in 26, it all jumped up. Mainly because of

this 19 game stretch he had where there wasn't a lot of Yokeh and he was like 22 a game.

He was hit in three. So he looked like just an awesome two way player potentially.

But he also had the ball a lot. Now he's going to Cleveland. Guess where he's not going to have

the ball a lot. Cleveland. Because they still have Mitchell and they still have Hardin.

We've never seen him succeed with a lot of minutes in the playoffs. We haven't seen it at all.

They paid him like a playoff guy. He's in the salary group right now.

He's I.O. Brooks, Gidey, Jibari, Hartinstein, McDaniels,

Nemhart on the Pacers, Vicell, Kobe White, Zubats. These are like proven really good. I'm not one of

the two best players in your team, but I'm right underneath. And they're paying them like that.

And as talented as he is, I don't know if he has it or not. Like I just don't, I don't know yet.

And I think anyone who says, Oh, we definitely know from that 19 game stretch. I don't know

you can say it. I don't know how it's going to play out. So where do you stand?

I mean, he's definitely going to take a hit in terms of the organic just cutting style that

they're just flying around Yokeh that comes that comes with playing with him. It's a little bit

different plane in such a heavy, heavy ball screen situation. And you're playing with two

guys who are rough spacing bigs. I think you could argue at this point. Jared Allen and

Moby, so that'll be different to, but I mean, the catch and shoot stuff with him.

His shooting has really, really improved. He was almost 45% last year on his catch and

shoots. So I think he'll be able to serve that role. It's just kind of, he's going to have to be

hyper efficient, I think, to justify the payment that he got for, you know, based on he has,

he has a lot of kind of upside ambition. I don't know if this is like a Jeremy Grant thing,

where he's going to pursue that and pursue that. And then we're just kind of, and then we're like,

I think you're probably better over in this box. We might be on the path. But it'll be interesting

to see how he responds to being a little bit in tighter kind of parameters, I think, as opposed to

who spacing wise was he working around in Denver that was really somebody to move around. I mean,

Aaron Gordon, Aaron Gordon's become a pretty good shooter over time. So this will definitely be a

much different spatial spacing challenge for him in Cleveland. I feel like it's either going to go

awesome, or it's going to be really rocky and awkward for the first month. And I, and you could

give me either. Look, I thought Denver should have kept him. And if I have Yoke age, I'm just

paying the apron and the tax and obviously the cronkeys have a ton of money because they just bought

the angels and they keep buying sports teams. With that said, I was more surprised from the Cleveland

side of this. And I know they were able to shed some contracts and kind of figure out how to

scotch tape this together and make it work. But they don't have a lot of out sip this doesn't work

because they gave Mitchell the extension. Moby's banked a lot of money. They're back in in the

heart of business for two more years. And they kind of like they don't have a choice with this.

This has to work. And we've never seen him as a side piece of a really good playoff team

where he does them the ball lot. And I just want to see how is he going to play because at Denver,

he looked awesome, but he had the ball. Like it was, you know, the team didn't really have a choice.

They had to run a lot of stuff to them and he did really well. But how is that going to work

in Cleveland? We'll see. It's a pretty big number risk because those guys I mentioned are all

with the exception of maybe Jabari, guys who had real like I.O. Brooks, McDaniels, Zubats,

Vaselle. Like these are guys who played in big games and kind of know their role. And I'm not

sure you know your role with them. Okay, we're going to take a break and then we're going to go through

the rest of this. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by Fandall. On Fandall, a player

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Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. Detroit Bistens. I wish this was in the answer but I

think it has to be Durin is the most fast and guy in this team. He got the contract 40 for 200

centers banking more than him this year will be Anthony Davis if you count him as a center

and B town's BAM. Sabonus triple J count him as a center chat and Wembee. So he's being paid as a

top tier dude. I voted for him for second team on B.A. He was absolutely abysmal and horrible in

the playoffs. And if you're going to be favorable you say, well, he had a lot of he was putting a lot

of pressure on himself because this contract was coming. Yeah. The glass half empty would be

the lead kind of figured out what to do with the roles and be physical with them before that

labs even thrown and there wasn't really a plan B for them and he got in his own head and didn't do

as well. This is a bigger version of the Watson contract. If they're wrong in this it's kind of a

it's kind of a half a decade sinker for them because this is you can't have three expensive guys.

So now they've locked in him and I don't know we'll see how it goes because if it doesn't go

well right away the piston fans, I don't think I can be that friendly about it. Yeah. It's a two

full thing where you know it's partly the guys that are around them. You need somebody some of the

people that they invested in like you know they hope that Kevin Herder could come in not trying to

just randomly blame Kevin Herder but it's the people who are surrounding this you know central

method of scoring that the pistons really bludgeon people with. In a year when the east was down

it does does need to be you know mentioned that in this vacancy they came in and just kind of

occupied the space with the K Durin. I heard you and Kirk talking about it and I absolutely think

it's true. They just they killed people with that because it was so tough to prepare for. Yeah.

But if you're playing the percentages you're looking at it and you're saying I don't think

Jalen has a whole lot outside of catching the ball in the you know in the block off the roll and

you know taking one dribble and dunking it like not a super great you know connective passer from

that spot in the short roll. It doesn't really have much of a pop game. It's just he was very very

limited and you watched against the magic and they just said all right man we're just going to

kind of set up shop whenever you're whenever you catch that ball and you're ready and we don't think

you have anything after that and and it was like so when you combine that with you know Jenkins kind

of turning into a pumpkin in the playoffs and then you know those guys that you imported to kind

of take pressure off of that not doing anything. Um well and you lose to bias you lost to bias who

was the only other guy he could run a play for and and know he'd get a decent shot he's gone. Yeah.

Yeah so there they're pressure on those two things I mean we'll see we mentioned Isaiah Joe is

another one of the the OKC guys who sort of you know was pruned off of that experiment and they got

him for so cheap we'll see if he can add something you know him playing with John Collins I guess

can play the four some in that to buy a spot. Um I don't like it but it is it is tough man I mean he's

still young. I don't know I was wrong about them last year and they won what 60 something like that

they're over under this year is 48 and a half and there's like heavy juice on the under

it them going 49 and the much improved east where there's no tanking anymore that seems like a

tall task but yeah this will be if he starts out badly this will be tough. Now he could come out

and be fucking awesome and be like this is why I deserve the contract but that's why I'm watching

them this is this is another like here's the ceiling here's the floor if he looks like the guy

from the playoffs not going to be great they also don't have the beeps to anymore you know it's

like a little security blanket for him now you're actually counting on Paul reading a real way which

Paul reads fun you know he comes in does the big band down waiters every once in a while but now

now you need to games of it Indiana who do you think I had for this one I had Ubrei I don't know

if you were Ubrei good the good defender last year in the at least in the Celtic series Ubrei

so you think Ubrei is going to play firm I think that he just makes sense like I think that he's

going to line up with Haliburton sensibility pretty well like I think that just the speed of the

way that they're going to play I was looking at it it's it's a version of the way that he played

with Charlotte I guess but a more sane version yeah I just think he's going to fit with their style

of play and he's matured over the past few years in the types it's been interesting because I think

that he is a 3 and D guy had I was like I don't know Kelly Ubrei too you kind of heard it over

people's voices change over the past couple of years we're like I Kelly Ubrei's actually pretty

serviceable dude who'd you have though well with him when he went to Golden State and it was just

such a bad fit it made me think like oh this is a guy who can only fit in certain situations

right so now he he found a better situation in Philly now he's in a team with Indiana that plays

a little more like Golden State does with a lot of movement and things moving around and we

already saw him failing that I had Zubats because what they gave up for him but also like just

looking at their in their playoff run in 25 which was a lot of games they made to game seven

of the finals mouse Turner 14 points a game five rebounds two blocks a game four three point attempts

a game 29 minutes Zubats in the 25 playoffs he knows one series but it was against Yoke just the

best part in the world 17 and 10 got a block 36 minutes a game so you think all right he's not

going to be able to space the floor like Miles Turner did because there's really shoot three doesn't

shoot through is it all but Miles Turner wasn't like an amazing three-point shooter he was okay but

okay see by the time we got midway through that series was like knock yourself out dude we're

giving that to you every single time and Zubats being around the the basket playing off Halburn I

just feel like it's such a better fit for these guys and I also got to watch him in person you know

a bunch of times and I he was way better in 25 26 I think he was a little hurt even before they traded

him but I just really like him and and and I'm excited to see them with a real center and I I

continue to be really bullish on Indiana I don't know why people don't consider them a contender in

this yeah Zubat is so different than than Miles in the fact that he he aims small and misses small in

terms of like positionally he doesn't really gamble the way the Miles does like the highs might

not be as high in terms of like when Miles is flying around he's long he's athletic he's blocking

shots and things like that it's like Zubat is much more conservative but he's very smart in the way

that he's conservative as a defender like he he's positionally really smart so you may not get like

the block totals but I think that he he processes the defensive side of the floor really well and it's

like even though he doesn't space the floor the way Miles does that hypotheticalness of of Miles

facing the floor killed Indiana in some really critical moments where if you just think about what

was it that was it game six or game five that he missed a couple just back breaker threes

whereas game four too that was another one yeah it was the midway through the series okay see just

was like we're fine with this now please yeah knock yourself out I think it might have been

game four where he missed a couple in okay so he took that game on the road it's all

blurring together for me now but it's like even though the the width of of what Zubat does is not

necessarily as wide he's very realized in who he is and what he does so it's like you're going to

get a little bit more post up game he's a pretty good connective pastor that word keeps coming up but

I think that he's going to accelerate the way the the Pacers played in a good way I agree plus

fun to fund a chair for you go zoom whole progo zoom we're not saying boo you know that old one

when I was at those Pacers game I was surprised by how annoyed all their fans were by Miles Turner

because he you can't really tell until you're in the arena who the guy is on each team that the fans

are like it's got drives been crazy he was there this guy drives been crazy guy and Zoo is Zoo is

as reliable as it gets you know exactly who he is he's in all the right spots at all the right times

no center is gonna torture and they're they're playing now against them you know there's some good

centers in the east now but he'll be able to go toe-to-toe with all those guys I continue to be

mystified by the Pacers like they're over under 44 and a half yeah um like to me that's a 50 win

team if Halberts healthy I just think they're gonna be really good I guess the other question would

be what are we getting from TJ and is he moving toward a different bench point in his career but I

I continue to like them all right Miami I'm really fighting off the urge to wonder if if I might

have been wrong on being too glass I'm empty on Miami so I watched some of their preseason game

it's great it's preseason yana looks great I said before 14 minutes swung you swung you yeah

it looks great I have no idea how him and uh bam are gonna play but obviously they're swing guys

Wiggins because um you could even you know you can see it from when you read this stuff and just

in general like Yannis just he creates open space for guys they the you stuff to put the wall up

if he has the head esteem and I just took Wiggins is in a nice spot he's at a weird point in his career

Wiggins is over 15,000 points he has 834 games he's played um in the 2020s he's average two made

three is a game and 38% from three and he's never somebody you want as one of your best two guys

right Golden State they knew one of them as one of their best three guys they they seemed pretty

delighted to finally move off them but this is the perfect situation for him because Yannis is

going to get all the attention he culture spulstra and you know they they doubled down he did this

extension that was a pretty fair price like he's making he signed an extension for half a

what Peyton Watson got two for 34 and at least with Wiggins like we saw him he was the second best guy

in a title team I think he slipped a little over the last couple years from that level but um

but this is a nice spot for him somebody who's done it before which I think you have to respect

yeah and Miami's kind of pursuit to answer the spatial questions of having BAM and Yannis on the

floor together you're natural you know it's just like a I'm not a chef but we got a dish that's too

sweet or salty whatever you're sprinkling in shooting to sort of balance out the the problem

that think the questions that you're gonna have to answer with Yannis and BAM and naturally you're

gonna add guys that are going to just be implied challenge defenders like the Tim Hardaway

juniors the clay at this point in his career um and I think that that opens up a world where we

know that Davie on Mitchell could guard point guards he's a bulldog in that sense but there's a big

in between where even though BAM can switch up and down the chain it's like who's gonna guard these

big perimeter score type guys and that's gonna be an opportunity for Wiggins to to really cash

indefensively um there's the catch and shoot opportunities that he's gonna have obviously um yeah

I mean it's gonna be you were mentioned in just the cumulative quality of his career I brought up a

stat about guys under 25 who had scored I forget the point total but it was only like 12 dudes and

it was a lot of stars and Wiggins yes he's in this interesting purgatory of we're just like

yeah don't love Wiggins he's almost like the he's almost like the wing version of what the way

we talk about Miles Turner just Miles Turner never got his opportunity if he'd made two shots maybe

he would have entered this this this elevated spot but it's like he's not quite what you want him

to be but he's still not an outright failure Wiggins is a fascinating player shot he'll be a

shocking 20,000 point guy you be one of the other one well Jameson didn't Jameson get there

he might have uh I'm trying to think like like those Jim jacks and type guys who just you're like

bam it's pretty good total at the end of it when you zoom out but that is the rants me of when

uh when I was doing my basketball book there was this old NBA writer who was like a guy in the 50-60s

George I think Cassito is his name and he said Walt Bellamy is going to be the skeleton of the

20,000 point club because Walt Bellamy was like she's getting to nobody liked Walt Bellamy in the 60s

Walt Bellamy I think ended up with 20,000 points but nobody ever thought he was a winning

player the entire time it happened Wiggins has at least been a winning player but um the Nick's traded

Bellamy for the busher yeah right okay he comes around he had a couple

couple homes but um the thing with the thing that's so tough to figure out Miami is if Janus

plays 70 games it probably is a team that's going to be in the high 40s because so much is going to

run through him if Janus misses like a month or five weeks I don't know what they're going to do

offensively what happens at that point because they they have a lot of role players and guys that are

specifically built around the the the force of somebody like him and if you don't have that they

don't how are they going to create shots at the end of games yeah Janus dictates a certain type

of roster bill but I think in all the concern which I think it's fair all the concern about like how

he's going to age with his play style um it can be forgotten that he is an elite floor raising

players still and I think just having him on court you can roll him out with like a replacement

or even a little bit below replacement players and he's just the pain in the ass because you know

there's just so few people in the world that can guard him he has at least two really elite years

left to pick and stay healthy and then we'll see after that he's the the stats and the history

are against it but um but I think it's a nice spot for Wiggins we could skip over Milwaukee really

quick I had Tyler here up for them just because he's in a contract year he's never been in a situation

where it's like just let me cook I think he's a sneaky 27 28 points of game score potentially

yeah you can see that that feels like it's common for sure I think his first team all and be a trade

machine he's averaged 20 points of game for five straight years and this is the first time he's

been in a situation where they're like just go ahead cook yeah you know especially the roster that

they have um and we'll see how it affects Burris who's the guy I really care about on that team

New York I have Carl Anthony Towns for this okay a couple different reasons

extensions not happening he sacrificed last year for the title you know and really I think

goes down in Nick's history and all that did everything you'd want you might have faded in the

last couple games but it's fine they won um usually the the history of the NBA is when you sacrifice

to win a title the year after probably less prone to sacrifice and there's different versions of

the disease of me disease of more which I've written about and talked about forever but this is

a staple of this where it's like all right I sacrificed last year now what about me so you have

this has been Brunson's team Brunson was the one that got to host SNL Towns was in the stands

Brunson is a god in New York City everybody loves towns as well I wouldn't have given him the

extension here it is under contract for the next couple years anyway I don't know how he's

gonna age when he hits his thirties and I'll I'll wonder if the this team in general but specifically him

do you sacrifice as much when you've already won and it's been the the question of the NBA for 75

years how do you act after the year you won and I just I don't know with them we'll see

it's interesting how it's like no one is immune to that with you know there might be

little situational moments where people are you know people are just praising a team for their

guys doing what you're talking about for this oh yeah but it's the rubber hits the meets the road

at some point with every person you know uh so towns you know they they've got a lot more to

mind um we went like again I'll plug the group chat episode again with the nicks which it'll be

later this week when we get to them because they're at the top the NBA because we're going bottom to

top but um he really hit on something where him is the high post passer guy I think that's the part

of his game where if he continues to lean into that um and the nicks continue to play through him

there's a lot more for him to show so maybe that's a way for him to just kind of you know squeeze

the rag as the season goes on and just show like hey you know without me that seems like the

quinnis central argument if you're carl and then he towns like I'm not just that he's spacing the

floor for Brunson that team hit a turning point when they started playing through him like that

yeah and that would be that would be my argument because there's nobody else on here it's like do

you expect mcale bridges to tap into Brooklyn mcale where he was like running for roller I don't see

any other primary offense outlets for them uh so you would think that would be the way that he's

going about arguing for his value my guess is it's gonna go fine but I'm always watching this stuff

they also he doesn't have the mit rovin since security bank at this year so when he gets three

thousand the first seven minutes of you know a Sunday BC game against Miami or something that

it's not mit rovincent coming in the same day we didn't even mention that was awesome mit rovincent

yeah oh I'm excited for him it's on your mind or I want the center situation's gonna be pretty good

with bust um orlando so I have sucks here okay who's missed 72 games the last two years

who was 40% from three and 24 and fell off a cliff and in the playoffs last year 30% field goal

24% from three he shot almost eight threes a game and made 13 in the playoffs he was 13 for 54

and his shot just went out the window and if he can't shoot but has the confidence that he should

shoot that single handly will sink a team it's interesting he's only 25 years old but he did miss 72

games the last two years I don't I don't this is not exactly Cal Ripken Jr um they can figure out the

fronds palo ultimately like if they decide those two don't make sense together they'll just trade

front right the sucks pieces a little harder because they're kind of stuck with that contract

and if he's offensively the guy he was last year that guy's just on your team but with the

confidence that he should be taking big shots and big games and I think there's more there I

really like sucks I just didn't like how he played last year and I feel like this is a fork in

the road season for him so what are your thoughts yeah I mean he's like if evil con evil we're like

about he just he has no regard for his his own safety just throwing himself around all the time

and that can be good and bad um I think it's the thing that with the magic is it's almost like the

the on court version of the knucklehead theory where they're like you know you can have one knucklehead

but it's like you can you can only you can have one really hyper confidence shooter that's self-sabotaging

at moments it's like Anthony Black that's who I had down as my guy for the magic who I really love

or you know you have palo who can be inefficient with this shot selection and his credibility has

been up and down it interesting you you automatically went to fron's as the guy they they would get

rid of and palo was kind of was the implied person for the past did you want to say something about

that I think it's easier from a money standpoint yeah because fron's is deal is less um

and I think teams are always just more scared to trade the guy who they've already

anointed as their franchise guy it's a little bit of a tatum in jayland situation but um if I were

them I wouldn't do anything because I'm not going to win the title I want I want to take that as far

as I can go with those two guys and see if it can work and fron's has had some injuries and

I also think there's a lot more there with palo I just wouldn't I wouldn't give up I their big move

this year was our coach was bad what is this going to look like with a better coach who can kind of

unlock some of this and I want to see a year with swiney with the same pieces trying to figure out

something that made more sense offensively than whatever the fuck we watched last year

uh yeah so I this team I don't think this is a big deal this year team but a new offseason that's

where you make the palo fron's to say this goes badly again that's where you probably make the move

than I'm in a picks left yeah it's I mean this roster suits Sean's wini's sensibility as a coach like

as a defensive minded coach so I think he's going to be able to you know that palette cleanse of just

getting somebody new a new voice in the locker room we'll see if they can you know get back into

some of the intensity and the physicality that we like so much of them when they were kind of a

hipster e team a few years ago but we're kind of far into this experiment and I'm looking at this

team and I'm I'm thinking we don't really have many more years to just kind of fritter away and

be like I you know we'll move on it's like yeah they're they're like way up there salary wise too

so yeah yeah this is not uh so you had black huh you think there's more there with black

oh yeah like by the way Anthony black's younger brother I would recommend you go check him out back

on black he's a badass yeah yeah um yeah I love Anthony black he had a month I think it was in

January where he was shooting like 40% from three like just really really good it kind of makes me wonder

if there's an opening with the if you we're gonna pick one lever for them to pull for a guy that

does have some value but doesn't totally fit what they're trying to accomplish long-term he's

somebody that I could see somebody with like really coveting eyes come after him like a smart team

yeah well you know I it be mutual because I think the magic know what they have he's so good you

did to be blind basketball I's not to see that but I think um I don't know you're just kind of

looking around thinking like where what is the move because I it does feel like something needs to

be tweaked uh it's just unclear what it's gonna be I think there's a real chance it was the coach

and that's why this whole team the sucks piece and the coach seem to be the two things that held

them back the most I just felt like he took I thought Sugs and that playoff series took the most

I can't believe you think you should have taken that shots out of anyone in the entire playoffs

next team Philadelphia I we don't need to dive into this but Jaylen's obviously the guy for this and

making this as concise as possible there's gonna be nights where they need him to be last year's

Jaylen Brown and there's gonna be other nights where they're gonna ask him to basically be

Lou Dord on the thunder last year you know and just can you stand over there and just stay out of the

way and how he handles that will be one of the many fast and things about their season because

there's be nights where we're like hey can you just set some picks and guard somebody and maybe take

10 shots and I don't know if he's gonna handle that well would be my guess yeah the the Maxi Brown

dynamic will be interesting to watch but in terms of like satiating him over the course of the

season this is a unique situation with him being LeBron who oh shocker he's 41 from those reports

that kind of went around yesterday it's like yeah his feet and his back hurt big shock

they're gonna be enough openings over the course of this season I think to you know make Jaylen happy

also hey I wanted to say this a little birdies chirpin that LeBron Phylon is my guy

did I just I thought you know I know we share an effect for him I heard that he's been kind of

taking it to the starters that's I heard that interesting yeah I really wish Charlotte had taken him

I'm still upset about that that was sitting right there for them well we have plenty of time to

talk about Phil Duffin two teams left I'm gonna go backwards of medical Washington it's Anthony Davis

who just they're basically like we're not giving him an extension so he becomes a February

trade deadline guy Rich Paul who continues to work as magic as we saw recently with the

paid Watson deal is seems bound to determine to get him an extension he's 33 years old he's played

277 games since they won the 2020 title the Lakers which is 45 a year and he can also opt in next year

at 62 which is just kind of lurking over all of this and was the reason like his trade value was

nearly as high as he thought it would be he's got always has weird quotes about oh I put on too

much weight they asked me to be center and say I don't know what position he thinks he is because he's

you know especially as you get older I think he's the center but he is fundamentally on paper a

nice fit with Sar right Sar now Sar will see how healthy he is this year and Sar Davis to

bands it together makes sense to me yeah yeah but at 33 years old I'm not positive what's left

here and all we've seen is him in street clothes so what do you think what's left for Anthony Davis here

I would say what would you bet if you had to bet his stats for 2026 27 season games points

rebounds what would your what would your guest be if he plays I would say games have to be part of it

if to pick games points per game and rebounds per game oh I mean games will go I mean I think the

safe bet is to keep it in the four low 40s I mean I wrote that 48 I'll go 40 44 okay I think when

he when he plays I mean he's gonna I mean the the tray young Anthony Davis combination is it's

just kind of like matching NBA jam heaven I mean they do fit together how how they figure out the

spacing around that with Sar with DeBonza who isn't known as a great catch and chew player so that

could be interesting I'd say 18 points a game is that too low 18 to 9 yeah yeah this is such a weird

roster I was at 19 and I was at 19 and nine so we're right around this thing okay okay yeah

I can see that there's a lot of people to serve on this team there's a lot of shots to be passed

around I'll be interested to see how they do that you know even like some of their swings and you

have trade Johnson coming in it's like I'm only playing five minutes I'm shooting you know

Bob Carrington was being held back as we yeah we just poor Bob Carrington in the shackles but

yeah I just don't I don't know what to expect from Davis either way and he'll be I think first

three weeks and I test guy where I think you'll know it on the TV it's like oh Davis looks great

hmm he's he's either playing for a trade near extension or it'll be like Davis is

him playing and I we're kind of on the up and down rollercoaster and I don't think that'll be good

for anybody I still don't know why Dallas traded him though okay last guy Toronto

I have Murray Boyles for this wonder I figured playoff stats 27 minutes a game 14 and six

they're talking about him playing a little small ball center and just being Swiss Armour and I

have different positions there's a lineup that we're gonna see with him and Kauai and Graves who

looked like a maniac in summer league Barnes and Barrett where they just go length and scariness

and Murray Boyles be the key to that but I was really really really impressed by them and in general

I I'm really kind of warming up to the Toronto over and just I don't know what they're gonna get

out of Kauai but it might they might not even need more than 55 games from him to win 50 games

this team is just going to be one of those you see him on the schedule like Fox playing Toronto

tonight Jesus I hate going against these guys I think that's where their destiny is but I know

you love Murray Boyles so go oh yeah yeah yeah like he his ability to to guard up up the up the

positional chain is going to be a huge tool for them you know scoring is still going to continue

because he's basically a below the rim kind of a five interior he likes to score around the basket

so you'll have to it's it's very dream on the internet you're gonna have some questions to answer

but he's a really good passer he spaces well like even if he's not shooting the ball he has a high

basketball a cue I think something that's interesting about Scotty who Scotty over the course

people index used to have this match up versatility rating that would just kind of measure you know

who you could guard and Scotty has year in and year out been really really at the top of that

so I think Murray Boyles and Scotty together are going to take off some of the traditional

assignment kind of difficulty that Kauai has had in the past where it's just like we're

going to have Kauai guard this tough guy it was just kind of implied it's going to settle him into a

role I think that suits his age a little bit better yeah so you're right I just think that like

defensively that three four five in a small ball lineup a lot of people have talked about it

it's going to be a nightmare I like I'm going to be really I really want to watch Miami play

Toronto in particular like I think that's going to be just a blood bath but Kauai I think will help

them offensively too in a lot of different ways because he's just an improvement in every possible

way over Brandon England well they turned Brandon England who had apparently a partially torn

a kill is and a couple of picks down the road into a guy who was really good last year who

you know left wreckage behind but you figure Murray Boyles Kauai Barnes just the three of them

together pretty nice foundation and then Graves is the wild card if Graves could just come in and

be a maniac for 18 20 minutes now it's like there's no let up with anything that's happening

is there anybody is there one guy we didn't mention that you feel like we have to discuss because

I asked you to come up with three to four of your own did you have somebody that you feel like

is paramount we discussed before we go oh we mentioned Anthony Black let's see

um Jalen Tyson I think is going to matter for the calves also um yeah I I thought for sure

you were gonna say I went a little more obscure with my pixie I thought you were going to go

digging in the bin a little bit I that's why I had Ron Harper um I like Ron Harper oh gosh

Mike Contley what we mentioned Mike Contley went out of his way to praise Harper he's like I

didn't realize Ron Harper was this good yeah that's a prize okay uh Pella Larson is another guy

that I think he's a little bit fans are gonna kind of learn who he is for the the calves he got a

new deal recently for the he yeah I think there's just gonna be a lot of in between wearing a lot

of hats type of stuff that Larson is gonna have a chance to come in and do for them so a little

more of a hipstery answer but I think he's gonna play I like to master too I did not like the contract

I think those contracts that's like the Yovic contract a year ago those contracts are deaths when

you're doing the 15 to 16 million for somebody who's not one of your four best guys those are the ones

that seems like the teams regret the most um all right comment do we cover everything I think we did

check out check out group chat big-ass preview going backwards uh division by division

and you can hear me on there talking about my love from Memphis and also we had a very long

what the fuck is going on in the warlands conversation that was enjoyable good to see you thank you

you too all right let's kick off a new segment called agents of change it is presented by

workday the NFL is a game of split second decisions the people who actually changed the course

of a season usually aren't the ones making the wildest moves they're the ones who understand the

situation know the system execute when the pressure is on so let's look at some of the

leagues true agents to change players coaches for an office mind so whatever you want the ones that

are impact in the team's trajectory this season so you look at uh at Chicago where they lose their

quarterback in the first two games of the season they figure out how to win with case kingdom they

figure out how to win with Tyson Baygent yeah last week against the jets they have the ball I think

they ran 89 plays um just just figured out how to audible and adjust that it's all because of Ben

Johnson who's making a case for being um one of the three or four best coaches in the league

San Francisco is the other one San Francisco it seems like they lose a guy you know they lose two

guys a week one guy a week whatever every week somebody else goes down it never seems to matter

they're always chugging along the game management uh the end of the game stuff is always great for them

so Kyle Shanahan would be the other one I would think for the ages to change I think the best

thing about an NFL coach when they're successful is no matter what's going on with their team they

can adjust and try to win with it and I think those two guys specifically have have been the the

linch pens of that football real change doesn't come from moving fast just for the sake of it it comes

from having the right systems in place to act when it matters like what we just talked about the same

goes for business that's why work day helps enterprises put a gentick systems to work with the

context permission and guardrails to move fast safely and not just get work done but get it done

right it's a new work day all right we're recording this it is a Monday afternoon we just did a

rewatchables Chris Ryan is still here band late then is still here there was a couple extra sports

culture topics I wanted to hit and one of the things I wanted to throw a UCR and I'm so glad

bands here for this Dominic West who's in war the new HBO movie HBO TV show where it's

like the most high profile nasty as the war sever is he a cable haul famer because I feel like he

is now he's really who's in the cable haul fam because I feel like you have to be at and at least

two or three signature things I think Danes is up there Danes is definitely in there I think Matthew

Reese Matthew Reese is a first ballad one he might be the number one guy I think my guy ham's on

there ham yeah I mean I don't I'm not as big a difference in your friends in neighbor Matt

madman your friends and neighbors I'll go far go popped in on morning show okay but he was Don

draper I mean that's one of the six seven best shows of all time but I think he has a case

but Dominic West is a good one because he's a big dalti but he's not quite the star and the

wire because basically in season four he's he's barely in it which is the best season in the show

but he's still important but then the affair which was like that kind of the end of a showtime era

and was I felt like a show that that had some mojo now he's in war and then but he was also in

a industry Dominic West wasn't he no thank you wasn't it just industry who am I thinking of them

all right so there's three so I'm thinking of Kid Harrington I'm mixing up with the English people

yeah stuff it's Kid Harrington and the whole family we've got two two big ones got two

nail big ones so I guess the so how many do you need to be in the cable half fan well if you nail

a Tony soprano you're in right if it's an iconic role you're in here's the problem is that now we're

we've gotten to the point now we're like Reese Witherspoon essentially makes TV shows Laura Dern

essentially makes TV shows Woody Harrelson makes a lot of TV shows like you're getting all these

movie stars who kind of dilute the value of the trophy I think you're trying to give out

which is people who are like I am been here from when it was like FX cinematics HBO and showtime

and now I'm here when it's Apple Netflix and I'm bridging the gap I've like I've just lasted

and I can lead a show I can be second in a show so with like Amelia Clark is Kaleesi

but it doesn't have the second one I don't know if Kaleesi is enough

ponies was the like the more big effort that she had not effort it was good show but then the

fun thing about this idea is then you'd have the the people would be like it's time for Sharon Horton

like that I don't know we have other people we don't appreciate Sharon Horton obviously like

look at her stats like ED fockels in right yes auss could well Carmelo is Carmelo she's in but

Nurs Jackie as well yeah so that's then I it's like kind of important for us for two and a

few years yeah auss is a important jumping off point was with Moss is probably in there because she

goes from Westing to madman to handsman handman and it's done a couple of other but I think

it's diminishing returns for movie stars that are dipping into television I don't they have to

do a little bit so maybe they're maybe that's like a different wing in the hall fan right

carry koon so like the white lotus gilded age and the good leftovers um so like the cold

kittman wasn't it racy horn racy horn pluribus plus better call Saul yep but like the cold kid

been campy in I think you're in a savage move actors yeah it's kind of not slumming on TV but you're

or Kate wenslet dominant dominant west is the guy who this is made for that after is the guy that

this is made for like the guy who he's not the main character of the wire but he is the wires

oriented care I put goggins in this goggins is done justified the shield and then his

life is crazy and gets man righteous uh justones and yeah lotus mm-hmm there's a great one for

this that would get like and people would be all excited little finger who is also a mayor garcetti

yeah that guy whatever that guy is he's 100% yeah he he's name I can't remember he starts off

as garcetti that would be the that would be the hot fame category it's like what's his name

that would be every year you're a elect one

Pedro Pascal's done game of thrones last of us oh Pascal's good one because

but he was only in thrones for like eight episodes yeah they were pretty fucking memorable

yeah like he has one of the most iconic scenes of all time if you're gonna be in game of thrones

that ensemble is so expansive you have to either have another show to bully you or you have to

be one of the main drivers of plot in game of thrones emirossum calise is one of them emirossum's

now it's too good one shame was the previous yeah I like clear daines is good for this that's

like the perfect one where it's like oh she's first bout yeah it feels like every five or six

years it's like oh she's gonna win it at me probably you know like yeah all right so you're down

with this so you think Dominic West definitely sure yeah and then you have Idris Elbud needs one more

well he's doing Luther hijack and the one that's true that's a hijack he's in I think he's in first

season hijack is all season I think he's in I think he's definitely in and like once again in

the wire what stringer lasts to season three he's three full seasons yeah so stringer lasts

so season three and he is such an important component to grounding the entire world he's not

like an also ran character in the wire he's really really important I'm sure walking dead bear

we on the city we on the city yeah American jiggle though yeah a show only meller and I watched never

saw never heard of it we were the last two what about the guy from the bear Jeremy

Elmweight yeah cuz he was obviously Brian cranson oh cranson yeah and then it's like when is Aaron

Paul's time gonna come well he's done carry break a bed he's done breaking bad he's probably

in was world breaking bad he's probably in oh big love big love what's up for gotten for gotten

show yeah that for the time that it was awesome was really awesome yeah at a bc might just make it

just for the three six and yeah lost at a bc or you count network TV now I don't say you're

gonna network I don't have to work to this is the cable streaming off and okay who we we're missing

some glaring ones here I know I'm just I did this up top my head but I was I think this would be

it made me think how with culture we do have the award season right we have the M.A.s and

with Oscars couple others but we don't have any certain things that we could argue about sides hacks

and watch man I don't know your jeans smarts probably in just because of hacks I mean she won

the M.E. five straight years five years five years are this fucking crazy yeah that that that puts you

in and honestly Louis C. K. Zin cuz Louis was the most important show for four years he's fucking in

the B. Contraversy like whatever but he's just like it cuz it's like the the the topic is kind of

losing air and it's like oh it's going down it's going down and then Bill brings it right

back to you guys listen to me are Kelly Laley that show that show was the most important show for

which version of Louis the FX one okay so though because there was a FX one that was H.B.O.

one too there's a lucky Louis H.B.O okay and then he made the one about we were doing Grant

Landon Louis was on par with all the other shows that we talked about for years it's still

was pretty high up in the New York Times top 100 list given given like his legacy he owns

all the shows that you can get on his website but you can't get them you can't rent them they're

not on any streamers and I was what's happening right now Louis you're going on a whole

no I'm just saying I wonder what would happen if it was on Netflix I wonder if it would have

a resurgence or not oh okay yeah yes you want to what's pretty rare to make van uncomfortable

this is exciting just saying I'm like good show what's most are having like this meta experience

and like this like from a one topic we were prepared to discuss to like reckoning Louis

now the legacy and I'm like I thought I was talking about Manchester City that's coming up wait before

you do Manchester City a vanside digger the biggest bus of the last two years and the final

true yeah the final nail in the Tom Cruise coffin unless he's paying a much better

price and I do dead okay he could buy a mission impossible or top-down

matter he's going for days of or cocktail two days of days of this under two okay he sequels only at

this point so I'm gonna say this and I understand how this is gonna sound to the audience because

of my reputation as a zagger as a zagger okay professional zagger I would rather be them call me a

zagger than something else that sounds the same okay so so I saw digger yeah I went to see the movie

I saw it by myself did you see it because you thought it was gonna be fun to see how bad it was

so I saw the movie just because of the divisiveness of the reactions to the movie okay now a lot of

people that I know have said that this is like the one of the most terrible movies over on the big

picture they seem to be a little split Sean Light the more than Amanda so I was like I have to

see this movie for myself you guys I thought digger was brilliant are you a you an inner E2 fan

otherwise like bird man bird man I liked the the revenant I was like I'll never see that again

those are the only ones that I've seen besides this I thought digger I like the revenant I thought

digger was brilliant like I thought digger was brilliant in execution I thought what I heard a man

to say about it is very true there are times where the movie is incredibly grating and like just

like hard to watch and you can tell that at this point like AGI doesn't have anybody to like pull

him back or edit him from scenes that go on a little bit too long there are a little too off-putting

but beyond that which is you know a flaw of the director that has a lot to say I don't want to ruin

the movie for C.R. and I haven't seen it that I thought it reconciled itself really well it takes

on a really important topic and it is entertaining like I legitimately loved the movie did you read a lot

about it or listen to the big picture or any of those others like did you did you go into with any

expectations other than like I want to see what the big fuss is about so I didn't read enough

about it to have the movie ruined I watched clips of what they had to say about it just because I was

kind of interested and then I went into it without having any of sort of the meta commentary in the

movie spoiled for me and expecting excess yeah because it is excess I say something that role for Tom

Cruz at this point in his career is to me the perfect role for him to take and for me to say why

I would have to spoil the movie which I don't want to do okay I mean the bitch only made eight

million dollars in the first so it doesn't seem like but to me there's a juxtaposition of how we

view Tom Cruz and how he probably wants to be viewed that is illustrated through his performance in

the movie okay so I really enjoyed it and at the end I sat back and looked at the film and taking

it in its totality and I thought there's probably a little bit of this that I could put my finger on

why this one is over hated when there's so much space made for these big gigantic swings by

these directors and the 175 million dollar art movie that people are saying is this kind of like

it's almost heresy and this is what's happening now like we're giving tons of movies to

seems like it got the people fired at WB2 but they're having a huge terrible year as well like

just beyond this super girl and a couple of other films I don't want to be typically happy for

both about it but I really enjoyed it I really liked it and it seemed like my theory did too

I have a couple Tom Cruz thoughts okay I don't think he should have promoted the movie at all

I don't think he should done anything and I don't think it helps when he does interviews and

those things I just think he's gotten too weird this did lead to my favorite social media video

of 2026 which was Tom Cruz on the red carpet realizing the lady was missing one of her legs

and then realizing he didn't appropriately have the interaction go reflecting that he knew that

so he kept coming back yes and circling back for two extra handshakes with her and it was the

weirdest fucking thing I ever watched and I watched it 20 times and I just couldn't believe how strange

it was and just his general energy I don't know what's going on with this dude I think one

thing that's really been a hallmark for him since I think night and day even if not before that

I think he's always had like incredible marketing push pushes and has done these wild stunts

but I remember back when that movie came out and it was like he was going to go to a premiere on

seven different continents and 24 hours and it just I wonder whether or not it serves the movies

anymore like when it becomes the spectacle of Tom Cruz in interviews or doing social media

stuff becomes like a bigger deal than what the movie is because obviously people here like this

movie was marketed like you couldn't be like I didn't know Digger was coming out yeah people

chose not to go so people are like pass now you once people understand what the movie is about I'm

sure there's a bigger debate to be like should they have shown more of it you know to people in the

trailer or whatever but I do think it's a fascinating commentary on like our modern media moment that

people can kind of feel like they know what it is and have seen it just by watching all of the

accumulated clips that they see so basically what actually happens in the movie the movie was

completely and totally mismarqueted when I say completely and totally mismarqueted the movie

seemed like it was marketed as almost a farce of cool morality tale and that's like not what the movie

is at all the movie is part like absurdist yeah another part of it is devastatingly grounded

in real world stakes and consequence in a way that that interplay just keeps you or at least

kept me enthralled all the way to the end to your point Tom Cruz does not know how to exist

outside of spectacle right now and our belief in Tom Cruz as a spectacle is running out

because we've been with Tom Cruz I told somebody it's stuck in a jack Sanders about this and I was

like you know I played the top gun video game on the first Nintendo yeah the first Nintendo the

Nintendo entertainment system that means I'm in elementary school yeah and I'm playing the video

game that is based on a movie that Tom Cruz has started so long fucking time ago all right that's

long time ago so at a point you can't spectacle yourself through your career in your 60s people have

to feel like some type of actual connection to you beyond things going fast and he just doesn't know

how to be anything other than a star he's been a star he's shown that he can do that it remains to

be seen whether or not he's going to be able to show that he's a human being and I think when you

look at these interviews and stuff like that and you see him talking with like Tom why can't you

just talk to us like why can't you just the last time he tried to do that it couldn't have

gone worse but he wasn't even doing it then the 2005 that Matt Lauer interview all that we was

doing the thing that was the last time it was like the psychiatry one yeah and about his part in

depression and medication and how mad he was at Matt Lauer that didn't understand I felt like

ever since that happened he just scaled back and he's like you're just gonna see me as man I love

higher learning yeah so good yeah god it's such a great you gotta be so proud of that man

handshake yeah it's just this like unrealistic energy at all times and I don't know what if he

is going on but if there was a person to sell this movie a movie that's like really it's a you

have to make people kind of fall into the narrative of the film I just think you would have went

better I think a lot of this stuff so who would have been the right actor for it oh that's a good

question do you think another actor was almost like traffic thunder tom cruise as digger yeah

what I had in my head I intentionally I tried not to find out too much about the movie I'm trying to

think a actor that would have been big enough to like a Christian bail have played this no because

you need a bigger star he could have but you need a star that because there's something that's

happening in the movie that's a commentary basically on the lead yeah so you need a bigger star

it's just not meaning you have Leo maybe maybe maybe I probably almost definitely with Leo at Netflix

I think it's the original version almost definitely yes and also it would have made sense because of

some of the stuff some of the passions that Leo actually has you know what's the worst thing to

happen in tom cruise for this aging thing you're talking about how good top gun maverick was

and and and when it hit we all love that movie he's great in it they nail it there's like just

legitimately great scenes in it and I think it made him feel you know a little like Lebron winning

that Houston series last spring race I mean I can still do this for 10 more years I think he's

also somebody who looks really good for 65 or 64 whatever he is yeah and is mostly interested in

archival legacy performances of his own rather than like creating new characters which is what

I guess this is really going to send the wrong message because like he really put his ass on

the line for this one and now it's going to go to this was like his Paul Newman in the verdict

yeah and I'm sure we'll put top gun three and yeah I'm just so surprised that he hasn't learned

the collateral lesson collateral lesson evil Tom Cruise evil Tom Cruise but also lowercase T Tom Cruise

right I remember even when Tom Cruise went on so good night he went on 106 in part and he goes on

on to support which was a big deal the motherfucker is still Tom Cruise everybody was like oh shit but

he goes on there to do the to sell that movie with Jamie Foxx and I never forget that he's talking

up Jamie Foxx as Ray and that was interesting to watch him he's like Jamie is Ray and it's like

fucking a like Jamie has fucking arrived but it also felt like Tom Cruise in that moment was just

being a good guy like a good pal he was still in promotion mode but that movie and that performance

was grounded in a way I don't feel like he's tried it again like I don't feel like he's had

I don't know it's like at this point everything else has been established for him the only thing that

hasn't been established for him is the small or muted role where he gets into it and it feels like

he's really connected to it I just wonder if he has too much baggage to play parts that we don't

already know at the parties and I mean baggage with like we know so much about the last like 50 years

of Tom Cruise basically yeah I mean I think he's he's just a celebrity in a way that it's like

it's kind of an alien you know I mean like that's what I mean like he doesn't he had all these

celebrity relationships and then they come and go he doesn't talk to them anymore he doesn't

like have relationships with his kids and I don't really know anything about him and it seems

intentional the Scientology things been explored forever but he's out of all the celebrities we have

I think that's the one that I have no idea who the real person is if you went to dinner with him

for two hours what would it be like well I think it would probably be like everybody who's like

directly interacted with him in a dinner or working with him on they say they all come out of these

movies like that dude is the fucking yeah so much energy like he made sure this happened yeah he's

like never he's tireless he has so much attention to detail he's always just trying to make the best

movie and it sound like he did the same thing with this everybody who came out of digger is like

I can't believe like what I witnessed on that set with Tom Cruise in his level of preparation

this dedication to the movie it's just didn't it just didn't work so that's what carries it for him

then but then saying that makes me want to see it even worse I just didn't get a chance to see it this

we can so there's a monologue that he delivers in the movie and it's a long one and it's

heavy handed and it's this sort of commentary on what's happening and the movie you're watching

and the movie that you're not watching at the same time and all that stuff like that I think he's

going fucking crazy I think he's on top I think he's on his shit but that film needed a human being

to sell it it because it is about the very nature of I can't spoiler but it's about the very nature

of performance it's about the nature of what it means to be performing not only in the story that

you're watching but in a different story it's about like how those things connect and take our

eyes off the ball of what's actually going on and it is to me it worked very very well now look

it's a lot of movie it's a lot of movie and it's there's a masturbation in there it's a jerk

and off like just when the artist is masturbating like thank god okay I know you're doing like big

sands of lamps anyway yeah anyway um I just think that Tom's gonna come back he's gonna make

days who knows you think anybody want you to go see it or you like this is a renter it's a renter

for me okay okay I came I worked out on Friday I came home and I turned the TV on and see if there

was baseball on forgetting that there was no baseball on a Friday but the last cable channel was a

movie channel cocktail was on and it's cocktail they're in Jamaica he's behind the bar when

when Flanagan shows up and Elizabeth shoes at the bar and she's like giving him the you know

flash in the eyes at him and then Flanagan shows up and he's like I'll bet you $500 there's a

not gonna do as Australian accent but he has a success manual in this thing and and crews and

hammer vibing and I was like man crews fucking there was just nobody like this this is a ridiculously

stupid movie he's a bartender in Jamaica and it's like riveting he's great in it he's so charismatic

and I don't think he ever figured out how to audible from the charismatic thing as he hit his 50s

and 60s like what when you have that kind of power that you can bring anything to life like that

what do you do when you're 65 you're not gonna be able to do in the same way so what

what is this but this is the kind of place where like he made color of money when he was a kid

and Paul Newman was an older man and Paul Newman is bringing along a younger actor is playing a guy

who's like grappling with the last lock lacked loss of his own masculine virility and all this stuff

and crews I haven't seen Digger doesn't typically engage with that in Top Gun Maverick the whole point

is that he still is the better pilot than all these fucking kids right he's teaching them yeah

like he couldn't have played the Newman part in color money I don't think I mean he should

but I don't think he would but like to me that type of shit is right there they all did that

another film is I think the perfect this being perfectly deployed is Redford in indecent

proposal so in indecent proposal obviously Redford is a millionaire billionaire guy who wants to

sleep with Demi Moore and her all-time finance right paid a money whatever Redford is both

I am being supplanted here because it's got to work out for these younger kids but at the same time

there's still this magnetism of power and experience that makes that character desirable yeah

Tom won't even do that he's holding on to tight he's he's still got to win the race at the end of it

Brad quies is kept same thing in f1 and they're the same age basically yeah f1's a good example like

Brad kind of quies we talked about that we did the f1 rewatch was right he's not quite

really one he's not ready to lose the race yet gotta be ready to lose the race everybody loses the race

including man city all right so Sierra is going to explain the man city thing to us which is

I'm gonna try 100 times worse than the Kuppers uh yeah 114 times so they've gotten found guilty by

the Premier League's independent commission that was looking into their financial malfeasance or

their their trespasses over the last when they came in shake man so we're brought bought the team

through like the Abu Dhabi investment group in 2008 and you probably were like

somewhat aware that this team came in they they spent a ton of money well they were the also ran forever

it was the clip totally the clip so as Manchester United is historically one of the the biggest if not

the biggest team and then a lot of money from the golf came into Manchester City where that money

came from is the what's up for debate and they immediately hired Roberto Manchin need to be their

manager and then started buying all these great players and they finally win the title three years

later one I think six Premier League titles of one the Champions League won tons of trophies and I

knew that things would change for them when they hired Roberto Manchin yeah I knew I knew I was

a big body and as soon as I saw Roberto Manchin he get hired I was like they hired Bobby they hired

Bob Bobby in they got they they immediately just started they basically like changed the calculus

of transfer spending in world football well this was when I was friends with Mark Stein when I was

when I picked Tottenham this is before this all happened with man city and man city was one of

the finalists and the reason one of the reasons I didn't pick them was it was like they can't ever

win their love bulldozers and then the money came in and it changed so over the years many raised

eyebrows how the hell are they spending this kind of money there are rules put in place a couple

years into their ownership cycle where it's basically league wide called a financial fair play which

means basically you can really only spend in a relationship to what you make now you can make the

argument that that helps bigger so this is like MBA second-aid brand so if you bring in 500 million

okay that's what you're like working with in terms of your transfer budget but if you bring in

50 million and you spend 300 million you're negative 250 and if you go over negative 100 million

over the course of three years you don't balance your books basically so you can't just be the rich

guy who's like you can't just go out give me no object right I'll spend a billion dollars on this and

this is made all the more complicated by two things one is that the from this has been something

that people have been speculating about for more than 10 years and when this is starting to have

speculating that they weren't making as much money as they claim they're making because Manchester

City's books would essentially their claim would be that they're as big of a club as Ray Almadrid

and Ray Almadrid is one of the biggest brands in sports and have built that up over decades Manchester

City coming along and I mean just ask yourself how many Manchester City fans you know probably not

as many as Arsenal or Liverpool or Ray Almadrid or Barcelona fans so this sounds like if somebody was

pretending they had more podcast downloads than they actually did several years ago exactly the

Premier League lego started putting like five episodes up a day to try to juice your abor rankings

several years ago the Premier League levels these charges against Manchester City because one of

the problems is so many of the ways in which Manchester City is showing revenue comes from companies

sponsorships through companies that are also connected to either the UAE royal family

companies in Abu Dhabi the national airline. This sounds like the Mark Walter. Yeah we got a lot

but like the money going back and forth. The money is there yeah but where they're claiming it comes

from is what's up for debate and for years these charges have been sort of looming and hanging over

the league and hanging over Manchester City and the kind of cynical view is like I think they just

have better lawyers and they're just going to delay and delay and delay and delay until this is just like

it's not unlike the fears I think people had that like Balmer had more financial might than the NBA

itself I think that there is a concern that Manchester City would be similar to the Premier League.

At the start of what has been an eternal three-week break in the Premier League because they're

off playing for their national teams on the Friday that that started the Premier League is like guilty

114 out of 115 charges. Manchester City has until October 2nd to appeal this then we're going

to wrap this up by December but like we are going to we are going to like what's the penalty?

They don't know we don't know yet they have not articulated what the penalty is so that has led

to this crazy speculation of everything from they are expelled from English football to expelled like

no team like done like that's a new definition so there's the pyramid system in England where

it's like these lower leagues that and it all goes up to the Premier League. They're run by different

governing bodies but the lower leagues have said we don't we stand with the Premier League like if

they kick them out like we're not going to take them. This is SMU death penalty but for

a second. So this is like I'm reading this from a bunch of different places but ultimately like

it's really bad for Manchester City. But how I mean you can't do anything other than that

as the penalty right you could vacate titles. Sure. I mean you could you could deduct them 114 points

and they would just go down and come back up next year. Yeah. If you or the following year.

But if you ban them from Premier League for 12 years. But do they go just go join La Liga or

a Bundesliga? No they can't do that. They can't do that. Why can't I because those are national leagues

like I can't believe it. A team from outside the country can't join those. You do bring up a good

point that this would perhaps spur on a revival of the conversation about having a super league

about just like 12 breakaway teams in Europe but the bigger issue that's come up over the last

couple of days is last week. Finally. Why am I so into this? Because it hasn't been reported

in a way that you and I would understand. It's a global story but England is a small place.

Let me tell you what I mean. They ask the new prime minister of England Andy Burtum who is coming

into the Downing Street. He's come prime minister after being the mayor of Manchester for a very

long time. Manchester, Manchester City. And his reaction when the entire tide of public opinion is

clearly get these fucking guys out of the paint. We always knew this was cheating. They ruined

this that. Think about all the teams that came up short against them. Teams that had their

rosters raided by them. Like this is big fish. They have Holland now the guy that from the World Cup.

And I'll tell you about my guy. So they're the they're the so okay so they have him so they're the

light blue team. He is an example of the reported bullshittery that they were taking part in which is

they bought him. For I think it was announced as like 51 million pounds or euros. I can't remember.

He's obviously worth three times that. Yeah. But they apparently paid more for him and just made

the public announcement in agreement with this club. Now I this a lot of this is just like rumors

and allegations and stuff like that. Anyway, the point I was trying to make with the prime minister

that somebody asks him they're like, well, what do you think of this Manchester City thing? And he

goes, well, I would really hate for these guys to really, you know, face a lot of trouble for

this. They've been incredible partners with us in Manchester. So now he steps into the bear trap

where they change prime ministers in England pretty frequently. Yeah. He had had like an amazing

first couple of weeks of making these pronouncements. And he had like a real almost like mom Donnie

kind of energy about like we're going to fix this and fix that. And one of his big things was like

I'm going to make take a lot of the lessons we learned in Manchester and bring them to the rest

of the country. And now people are starting to dig into whether or not there's a lot of like land

deals in Manchester. There's a lot of investment. And it's like, it's I mean, I was forgetting what

the beat. I really like this guy, the politician. I'm like, I'm like impressed with him.

But it's just like this, this thing just got like global political rather than just like,

Oh, what are they going to do with Manchester City? It's like, well, if Manchester City,

their chairman has diplomatic immunity apparently. They've invested in all this land.

Demand community. Are they what do you mean? Like the government's going to get involved and put

people in jail? No, but like he, I don't think he could have any like tax charges. Finally.

Oh, I see. Yeah. Um, and on top of that, I think it's just this idea that if you have enough money,

you can buy your way out of whatever trouble you're in. So. Well, America's not like that.

No, I mean, this is do that here. Square brother. Uh, so it's just become like this very,

very, very interesting sports story. And I think well, then people care about football. This is like

Lance Armstrong times 50. This is we've been watching these guys dominate this league more or less

for the last 15 years. Everybody was always like, damn, dude, you guys just bought another 300

million in defenders because Barry Bonds never won a world series. Right. It was all for him. Yeah.

And there are multiple clubs like, there was a year when Arsenal at one point had lost like

six players to Manchester City. You know, like had just they nobody was asking anything.

Then it's like, no, they put date. This was the thing. Also, when they first came in,

this is when the debate about and I think this is happening in the NBA too, or the debate about

do you allow sovereign wealth funds or you know, in the NBA's case, I think, private equity. But like,

do you allow these huge financial powerhouses to get involved to the point where they're bigger than

the league? Yeah, obviously. This is not like, oh, the car dealer in Pittsburgh has the hockey team.

It's about $1 trillion. The fucking government. So they have diplomatic relationships with

this country. They have economic investment relationships with this country. They have 200,000

people from the UK live in in Abu Dhabi. Like, it's it's all interconnected. So how do you punish

this team? And what happens if they're like, all right, cool. But I'm liquidating this team

and have fun city of Manchester. Well, didn't they build the new stadium? Yeah,

yeah, at a hat is the stadium there. Yeah. So then, okay. So so big winner Manchester United.

No, I mean, they still stink. So I'm just saying like, getting man city out of this completely.

And but at a certain point, because I'm trying to think, college football being one thing prior to

NIL, there were all kinds of things that like if you shut down the death penalty of SMU, you

didn't destroy the school. There's still a lot of stuff that's there at the school. Like SMU

actually just has to stop being a college has to stop being a college. It's just gone. In this

situation, think about the economic damage it would do in any league that we follow to just

Nuke a franchise like the Dallas Cowboys are just gone for 10 years. But we're going beyond just like

the 5,000 people who work at at Cowboys stadium are out of jobs. We're talking about like a massive

economic footprint in a country and in an region. Right. And that that was the same thing with

exist here, right? You Nuke that you nuke the cowboys. This would be like if Balmer was like

it would have to be like almost like Balmer and Cronkey together pulling out of England or

something like. Oh, wow. I was going to say it would be the equivalent of if a city lost all

its sports teams at the same time. Like if Boston lost the Red Sox Celtics and Bruins all at once.

That's because in Manchester, this is the team. It's not like there's a baseball team and a football team.

The reason why I ask is in your opinion, doesn't that mean that the that there will be some self

preservation involved in whatever the penalty here would be? But what if the Saudis are like,

we're fucking fine. It's the it's the. No, I'm talking about the league itself.

Avogabi is the one who own Manchester City. Saudi. So then like, I mean, they don't give a

fuck right? That's another thing is like if money can buy everything no matter what, well,

there is a region where the finances of the people who were talking about if it's NBS, if it's

anywhere else is directly connected to the price of oil and they can essentially buy whatever

the fuck they want to buy. Right. So like whenever they want to buy, they can buy. Yeah. They

decide they want to pay a guy $600 million in a contract. If it was a year to play soccer,

it's not no skill off. It doesn't matter. Right. So that happened basically. Basically, it did.

Right. So there was always going to be some, if not mal-feasons, there was going to be some

improprietary. I don't know what I'm trying to say. There's going to be something there that was

improper if they get involved in that much money comes into it. It's just like, I think that they

started spending and perhaps there was no rules to prevent something like this because nobody

had ever thought that a petro state would buy a football team and start funding it as a way of

using it for soft power across the world. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But like, when I'm saying

is in this situation right here, it can the league swing the machete as much as they want to.

Well, so you like that whole region, the team is going to job on everything going, the

economic, like what's the worst they could do? I mean, they took Chelsea away from Roman

Abramim. She had to sell. Okay. So that the multiple outcomes are you have to sell the team.

I don't think that they're going to get that. Well, if we're going through everything,

that's the best case scenario for your Manchester City fan. It's like, well, they just have to sell

the team. Yes. And you know, a consortium that includes Jeff Bezos just bought Liverpool or bought

a big chunk of Liverpool. It's not like sports franchises are going down in value. I don't know.

I would say they would have some takers. So that's that's number one. Number two is you're out of

the league for 10 years or five years or 15 years, whatever they say. And then number three is

you're never coming back. Yes. You're the only other franchise. Is there any other possible?

It would be a here for the next four years, you start your season at minus 25 points.

So like a kind of rolling penalty. But then why would they never want to play for them?

Right. So you just destroy the franchise on the pitch. Basically, you keep it to you keep the

semblance of the franchise together, but you make it basically like now you have to go to the

bottom of English football and fight your way back up. And essentially what the death penalty was,

it wasn't like we're contracting your scholarship. You don't have nothing to do necessarily

roughness type shit. How about vacating the titles? This is a huge debate. And it's an interesting

conversation because I think obviously like we've had you can't do that in American sports,

like whether it's been steroid baseball or Lance Armstrong and Tour de France, or even somebody

would say like NBA stuff. Right. There have been discussions about whether or not they should have

to vacate those championships. Should the championships then go to the people who are teams

in the second place? Congratulations. You're now the 2018 champion. To me, the more,

there's an end shake. To me, the kind of you have a parade. If you get if the shit is vacated,

right? If it like a retroactive 2008, right? If Alabama, Alabama played LSU, one of the most

debilitating experiences of my life, 2011, we get the championship. They make us champions. Do

you have a parade? Do we like bad rules? Like a fake title. Yeah. Yeah. So here's a question.

Like in terms of the we all knew all the whole time, I am not saying that Alabama was cheating,

but there was like a feeling when NIL came in that it was like now everybody is doing what the

teams in the SEC were doing. You need to talk about, you know what's up. But is that like does that

negate or take away from what saving accomplished? Nope. Because the reason why it doesn't is because

on one side was all of the fucking dogs that they had and on the other side is fucking honey badger

and all of these other guys too. So the competitive balance that happens there is for other teams.

Like that's actually more a Mississippi state problem or even like a Tennessee problem or

a problem of those athletes not being able to go to those schools. By the time you got to the national

championship game, it was good on good. So that was that's less of a fucking issue. It's first

round talent. There have been several premier leagues that were decided by two, three, five points

that was about like a guy slips and doesn't you know what I mean? Like the margins are very fine.

I'm a full fan. Does this make you mad? Uh yeah. Yes. Do you feel cheated? I feel cheated in that I

really liked our previous manager of who was mostly the manager during this era, your

working club. Yeah. And I think he's one of the most dynamic coaches. The big club guy I've

ever seen. And I think compster. I think he knew he was playing with one hand tie behind his back

or against uneven, uneven playing field. And they went about their business. But I don't, I just

don't know what the right answer is here. I don't like it's that thing where you're like, I can't

liquidate the franchise. Yeah, you can't. I don't know that they have like the legal means to do that.

But you can ban them from the league. Well, especially the rest of the years, the league

vote to expel them, you know, and just be like playful balls were. Yeah, it's your only. But

you just said there's no way that happens. Like I don't see, I don't see the Abu Dhabi group being

like, yeah, we're just going to stick around. We like love England. So we're just going to hang out,

you know, oh, so maybe a way to send them well, okay. Another question I'll ask real quick.

My last question. I'm going to say hang out like continue to invest in England. So is the

primarily prepared to force teams or compel them to sever their relationships with golf money?

Is there is there is there going to be no, I don't, I that would be I think what they would do that.

I think what they would say is that the money is the money. It's the way in which the money was

accounted for. And they tried to hide issues, which is the crime or not the crime. But the that's

the that's the problem. None of these leagues have ever said. Yeah, we can't let that person in.

Nobody's going to do that. The check clear. No, no, no, no. Adam silver was delighted about the

the Vegas valuation. But he didn't broker. But the problem is this though. Yeah. But the problem

is this though, when it's that much money, what people are not going to want to do is leave

three or four hundred million dollars a billion dollars on the table. They're going to want to figure

out a way how to utilize as much of the limitless spending that those countries are willing to do.

So in that lies like a festering opportunity to do shit that's behind like there's a salary cap

sure it is all this love sure but sure but yo man there's an extra four hundred million dollars

out there like how do we get it. But is there a world where there's also a reality where England left

Europe several years ago when they did Brexit and economically are not in the same position that

they were when they were part of a common market in terms of like trading with the EU. So like

they're like I don't know if we can really like afford to to give this up. I don't I don't know

right so even if even if you find them for or you get that rid of them for five years

taffa decade that's a long time all their players will leave they'd have to start over from scratch

they lose a ton of revenue maybe that's how it plays out. The whole thing is still a people like

Mark Stein who's rooted for Man City his whole life. Yes you do. And it's like so he just doesn't

have a team anymore he's they're dead. I don't know I mean SMU had SMU fans probably felt that way

long last time until they became a relevant college football team again is like they they are

a relevant college football team right now they got their program back like before it in but like

now in I.L there's so many fucking rich guys that are in and around that program they're always

going to be a problem. Texas Tech places like that are going to be a problem. I guess what I'm saying

is you know I'm trying to make you see a I'm trying to think I'm trying to think you're not

you're not a booster yet. You're not a booster. Okay. You're a booster. Not a booster. You're

just a emotional booster. He's a you know what I am man he's a cultural booster. You know what I

am I'm a connector. There you go. I don't know it's just a very fascinating. Yeah. How do you do it?

I think they'll wrap it up by Christmas I mean the appeals process being what it is. But they're

playing the season right now. No they will they've been off for three weeks. No I mean they're

all anyone is talking about the season. And the first game back next weekend for Manchester City

is at Liverpool. And what happens to Holland? Yeah. What is he doing? That's all I really care. Well

I'm sure a lot of these guys have clauses in their contracts about what it takes to break it what

it takes to escape and get out. I think this would be a force of a juror kind of thing that

is been I've never seen something like this happen in sports I personally like there are scandals

in Italian soccer and Italian football. Calciopoli there have been cheating scandals whatever

happened. Yeah remember yeah remember the times the difference the different the times would

just kill people. This is a situation where I think those guys would probably be like

the thing I think keep coming back to is the reason why I think Abu Dhabi got involved with

the team in the first place was to use it as a platform to express a different version of their

like vision for the world and their vision of themselves to the world sports watching. If if

if they've been disgraced here and people have written about this like what's in what's the

incentive to be involved. Well no this and what I mean what they what they essentially do is they

is really interesting if you take boxing or golf or soccer. They just go all in let the chips fall

where they may and if it goes bad they're out no fucking big deal. A lot of these countries know that

you know they're based around fossil fuels like that's what the economy is based around. That's not

infinite and so at some point there needs to be penetration into other areas of like travel.

Travel come here there was this gigantic this gigantic development that was supposed to be

happening in Saudi Arabia they were essentially building a city. Yes you know you've heard of this

and there's going to be this gigantic huge thing like four trillion dollars or whatever they

were going to do it and that was a way to like half people come there in vacation coming to

recession coming to a destination they kind of get out of needing to you know have your economy

dictated by the rises and falls all I'm saying is like they're not going to give them fuck there's

something else for them to buy like there's a different way for them to incept themselves into

Western culture and I don't mean to come off sound in like in any ways xenophobia. No I agree then

they just move on to the next thing the question is what is the franchise and this stadium worth

so that's like a state of the art stadium right it's a big franchise in a good spot with a big

fan base and Liverpool just went for whatever but it's a it's a it does the and you buy it a

squeeze team that can't carry over like if if Billy that have to carry over for five years

comes in is like I got it I'll buy it I'll buy it for six billion let's get out of here I'll buy

for ten billion let's get out of here now there's got to be ramifications just that just Holland and

Rand Shurkey like all these guys stay on the team like that seems like a pretty cool out for

if I was sports R which you know a job I've been applying for for 20 years sports R

them would have the sports R brings me in yeah I would just be like look you're out for five years

and you got to sell the team and that's where we are team on five years so the building the team

cannot compete in the premier league until 2031 okay and that's what I've decided and what I say to

you is hey we have this fucking stadium right it's a big huge deal yeah we have all of these jobs

that are on the table what about the economic there we can't come back in five years the economic

distress might kill where you get into too big to fail stuff right the economic distress might

destroy what it is that we have going on and permanently all to the league doesn't mean they can't

play somewhere else just don't know where they would be they join the Saudi Arabia league no I mean

it's not that's the MLS yeah there you go jump up right next to Philadelphia Union this is this has

been my book report there you go it's it's the rare sports story that there's no solution that

is the solution that's obvious there's the fair solution you know the fair solution is the

brother rules and there should be a punishment other teams have gotten these punishments noting

him for us everton well they're definitely getting punished right yes but is it going to what this

is the problem with three weeks of nothing but people trying to outdo themselves by how

outrage they are about about it is like now we're getting to the point where it's like all right man

you guys want Elliott nest to come out and put these guys in handcuffs like what are we going to do

like what's an appropriate punishment for what these guys did and it's been three weeks of like

I haven't had any football I watch so I'm just thinking about this I'm listening to sports

radio all day and podcasts about so what's the mood in like your average Manchester pub like

seven third and I saturday night it's gotta be great it'll be a really interesting to see Liverpool

versus Man City next weekend because it's at Liverpool and a lot of people think that it's going

to be like a real hornet's nest but it will be also interesting if it's just like another game

I don't know I can't I can't really call it truly last question if in fact van loves us

he didn't know anything about it I think it's it's really fascinating because

there are a lot of other problems that exist in the world that are that this is kind of a

microcosm for yeah yeah so if if in fact the roadless travels have less travel happens here and

there's really not a big penalty and everybody decides that we're going to do something that's more

for show and do our best at sweeping this under the rug how will the world wide or english soccer

fandom respond to that would there be outrage wait so say free phrase that again so if they're soft

on the penalty but the thing is they can't be softer than existing a lot of people feel which is

like you can buy your way out of what's the worst penalty that the premier league is ever given out

I think they're people been banned for a couple of years to an individual or to a team to team

you get points deductions and then you get banned from like you can get a transfer ban but they

have not been significant and the teams that have had to take them on for the most part have you

figured out ways around them but what they did was a hundred times worse than anything anybody

probably did so like there's no punishment that could even they invented a new infraction yeah so

there's no one's there even yeah dozens a dozen fan bases at least who are like these guys

directly impacted my like my enjoyment of my life like we had this team we were this close to

champions league qualification and they fucking bought it we had this team we were in the FA Cup

final against them they kicked our ass we had this guy who was supposed to be the backbone of our

team for the next five years and they bought him and like that's they got blood in their mouth

well people are pissed off this is what would happen if like the clippers had won three titles with

Kauai and then all this stuff came out people would have been so much matter about that story

yeah but they were and also like you think about like the things where it's like if the clippers had

also just continued then to be like we'll take Tyrese Halliburton we will take this right you know

what I mean and every year you were like damn we got to go a little player like this is we got

something for the future and the clippers like we'll have that yeah we'll take the tomb this is

why there is a second apron though you know like this is if if you would let

three years ago Mark Walter have full like I can I can outspend everybody I mean baseball fans would

say that's the way this is kind of what happened with the Dodgers and it's a relatively similar

situation and the Dodgers and then like the Yankees before them and even though he didn't be

there everything within the rules yeah how he had the money to do this stuff seems like it was not

there but and it's also like I think the idea of rather than caring about like competition between

athletes you're caring about like bookkeeping and the fact that the Dodgers figured out this

way to immortalize these contracts over there to pay themselves with their own money and

have more money like we're gonna back load your deal or we're gonna make it an eight-year deal

that pays out like this you know it's like if you guys had thought of this you should have done it

but I think they're it feels unfair it feels unfair when school will go to the Dodgers it I mean

I think CRs pissed off I think he is too I think he's a smelter book canna there is there is

mother fuckers cost Liverpool I never was at a nice run it's fine like I'm like between hey you know

what how about a league me a maximum back and forth about this like like how about a league where

there is some type of care put in the competitive balance where you just can't use the rest of the

league as a farm team for me I understand that this is something that's like actually much more

breathtaking and that is hidden your fucking clothes lives money that is not supposed to be there

this is like a complete subversion of the spirit of the competition in the league yeah and

rules I'm sure there's a Manchester City fan out there who's listening to me and they're like

this is what Manchester United used to do oh people would have a good player Manchester United

will come plucking up like it's not like this is this is the first time anyone's ever splashed the

pot in the in English football but I think the scale of it the fact that year after year you would

get to like sort of like the spring and the team you were cheering for was like playing with like

a kid from the academy and some dude like converted winger was playing fullback because they were like

everybody's fucking hurt and then Manchester City just brings another hundred million dollar guy

off the bench and like god damn dude I forgot you guys are jacks relish like how do you guys

have all these people this reminds me of the rewatchable category how would vanley think get out of

this one I'm wondering like if you're Manchester City the the people that own it with the fans

how do you get out of it it's like hey you guys wanted a win yeah we did yeah this I didn't

hear you guys complaining when we're lifting up trophies exactly you weren't asking to have the meat

was getting slaughtered every year day one the governor's cup yeah like the the kings

chalad the zag would be to do Leo and wolf of Wall Street like I'm not fucking leaving and like

give us our penalty but we're committed the I'm not fucking leaving Jordan Bell for it to

defend and we're hanging out and we're gonna build this back up from the studs we love Manchester

we love being here so in the short term you say beton of money because all the players are out of

there yeah well the long this short term you're also gonna have to pay a huge fine I think

well what what like just at the end at the risk of this going on another 30 45 minutes like what

what what what's that number look like what would that be oh I five hundred million dollars I mean

yeah I like the level of like accounting alleged accounting fraud would suggest it would be

in the hundreds of millions if you were gonna be like you've to pay that back if this happened with

the next I'm trying to imagine what it's like to be fans of other teams oh that's the other thing

they are going to get sued by these other clubs right individually this happened the next time

so this could be potentially a billion dollar mistake sure

cr's book report a new feature love this was great yeah thanks guys great to you no problem

all right that's it for the podcast thanks to Kyle and van and cr thanks to woodwardo and

chris and gahau as well i'm gonna be back on thursday with the big ass football podcast um don't forget

about rewatch most texas chainsaw maskers up and i'll see you on thursday

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