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Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast.

I'm Twitter Robinson.

I'm Rob Mahoney.

We have a very special episode of the Prestige Television Podcast for you today.

What are they not?

Today's extra special.

What do you not say?

I mean, it's your belated birthday.

My belated birthday. That's right.

That's not why it's special.

We might die before this podcast is over.

We're going to put ourselves to the test.

We have, obviously, we're talking about episode for our series six of Slow Hourses.

A great episode.

I actually think there's a scene in this episode that is maybe a top five favorite Slow Hourses scene of all time for me.

I'm eager to hear what it is because I think there's like three or four nominees.

Lost and Found is the name of the episode.

We will be discussing it.

Dead animal watch.

And he did.

No dead animals in this episode.

No dead animals, but multiple people watching weird animal TV nature docs.

So it's a very like arcade forward season and a dead animal in nature documentaries.

I mean, you know we're going to circle back to the arcade, but double arcade in this episode.

A lot of it happening.

Yeah.

Some more authentic than others.

Okay, fair enough.

We are quick program reminders or just sort of called action, I should say.

What we have coming up on the schedule, because we only have two more episodes of Slow Hourses to go, which is wild.

Coming up a little later on the schedule.

November 1st, it's a new season of Gilded Age.

A show neither of us had really gotten into.

I'd watched a little bit of you would watch none of.

We decided to go all in on Gilded Age this fall into winter.

I think that's what people do around our age and general.

Yeah, get really into Gilded Age.

So we're going to cover the new season of Gilded Age.

So if you are not a guild head, I don't know what they call themselves an age arena.

Lily's, I'm trying to think of like what is the appropriate.

I love that.

But we are going to be among them.

Yes.

So like catch up.

You've got a month to catch up before the new season starts on November 1st.

Or if you've been a long time fan, we will be digging into your fandom alongside with you.

Yeah.

And I want to know, are you spiritually old money?

Are you spiritually new money?

Where are you on the opera box debates?

Yeah.

I want to really get into it for Gilded Age, I think.

We have some ideas.

We're quite excited for this.

A couple of other sort of outside of our normal coverage plans that we have for the rest of the year.

We already mentioned this that we're going to do a run up of needle TV needle drops.

And you guys have been doing a really good job sending us emails outstanding.

Send us more, please.

Not just because my email inbox, where inbox might have deleted some.

Send us all of your needle drop emails.

What were the best TV needle drops this year starting January 1 of this year?

Any TV show is eligible.

Anything.

Send us what the what the track was, what the context is.

And we will have a reckoning about it in some form or another in a podcast.

And then we're also doing a, I don't know how to describe it.

I'm just going to call it a celebration of the TV NEPO babies this year.

And our incredible producer Dev has put together a very comprehensive list.

But just in case we missed anything.

I think of it as a dossier.

Yes, absolutely.

Just in case we miss anything, we would love to solicit from listeners for us to TV spotify.com.

Your needle drops, your NEPO babies.

Yeah.

And your, Guilded Age Enthusiasm.

And if you have any slow horses takes, how should they contact us?

They should always email us at prestige tvsbotify.com.

But as you say, first low horses, arch time the Pope at gmail.com.

Perfect.

And it's been popping off.

I think people are having a lot of fun with this season, especially trying to get ahead of some of the mysteries, trying to tile the threads together.

Yeah.

And people have been very sharp in their observations so far.

So Jim and Jane, who are on, on the hunt for our, you know, main crew, are following them from location to location.

And we've got several emails from people wondering if they have some sort of tracking device to play.

We had sort of touched on this last week.

Yeah.

Is there some sort of tracking device happening?

And is it the shrapnel in Sid's head?

Is it a parrow?

Is a lot of people are wondering if it was parrow himself.

Yeah.

And I don't see any way, unless the park is tracking there.

That's the thought.

Yeah.

You think so.

You think the park put a tracking device in Sid's head while they were in there, removing the bullet.

They're like, why not tag and release this, this agent does seem like something they might do.

I think coming out of last week's episode, again, we already had our questions, like the speed with which they were catching up to them was just on candy.

And then this week, especially the pull off the highway into the roadside mall.

Yeah.

So what else would they know to be there unless they had some kind of tracking?

Also, do we have versions of these?

So Sid calls it services, like the service station.

So yeah, it's like a, I guess we have like, we do have these just not everywhere.

But not to this degree with an arcade in it.

I've been to one like this.

Okay.

I've never seen anything like this in the US.

I first encountered it in the Midwest, like driving around the Midwest from city to city.

Okay.

And understandable.

Like if there's a snowstorm, there's some reason you want to call it spend time, that's the difference.

That's the difference.

That's true. There was one place in like sort of upstate in New York that we stopped.

That was like more mall, like like had a food court-esque type thing.

But like this seems just way more extensive than anything I'd ever seen.

The multi level.

Yeah.

There's a cricket mobile in here.

Yeah, exactly.

Just seemed like a lot was going on.

Yeah, I was like, what is this a mall?

And then I realized it was sort of a roadside thing.

So the is it being tracked is is co-scar being tracked.

And then we got we just got some emails from listeners on our tea conversation from last week.

And I just want to clarify, I must have misboken in some way because I think people thought that I thought that Builders T was Earl Gray.

I do not think that you would never think that I would never.

And you would certainly never say it on a podcast into a microphone for the record.

Of course, not absolutely not.

But our listener Helen wrote in to clarify that Builders T is a very strong cup of tea with milk.

Made the mug using a tea bag for the variety would only ever be what you would call English breakfast and what we would call tea.

So strong cup of tea, very milky, not a pot, but just sort of like made on the go.

Yeah.

It is the vibe.

And most our listeners do feel like because Sid got the the jug of milk out that like Builders T was what was perhaps on the menu.

To sure.

Those are the main emails, except we got this very important email from our listener.

I think it was Anne.

I didn't write it down, but I believe it was Anne.

We mentioned the phrase bisexual lighting at the end of last week's episode.

And it sort of that setting, the bowling alley is what sets off this week's episode.

And our listeners like, hey, what's that?

Why do you say that?

Like everyone knows what that is.

Rob, should we explain what bisexual lighting is?

I would love to.

Yeah.

First, I would love to help.

Of producer Jacob.

Jacob, you can hit the lights.

Come on.

And it.

That's it.

It's bisexual lighting time.

This is my sexual lighting.

It's a bright pink blue purple situation.

Any sort of permutation there of originated on tumblr on the.

That's all great things to on the super hulac tumblr.

Sure lights from an episode of Sherlock.

The bachelor party episode of Sherlock.

Okay.

We're homes and wats in our like in a club.

And because the lighting, these three colors are the colors of the bisexual flag because

the lighting scheme was thus some hopeful folks on tumblr were like, this means that not

only is John Watson excited to marry his, his soon to be wife Mary, but is also in love

with Sherlock himself, who is also clearly kind of in love hate with more yardity.

It's complicated.

It's very complicated.

What I'm hearing is these are the lights that launched a thousand fix.

Absolutely.

You crushed it.

2014 is the origin of that tumblr story.

Not the first time this lighting was ever used in anything.

Daryl Argento among other 70s are tours towards the venue.

As you can imagine, the 80s had a lot of this energy going on, but the asignation like assigning

it to this idea of bisexuality.

Yes.

Really kind of originated from this tumblr post.

And then I would say creators ran with that and intentionally used it in certain scenarios.

So what do you want to shout out as some of your favorite uses of bisexual lighting in

film and television?

I'm curious if you're first exposure.

Yeah.

Because I agree with you.

Clearly creators were running with it at a certain point.

I think the speed run for the phrase bisexual lighting from concept to term to trope is like

as fast as I've ever seen in modern media.

The internet was gunnig.

Really ablaze.

And for me, my first experience with it was an atomic blonde, which is like very overt.

That's the quintessential.

Yes.

That's the one.

And like atomic blonde just ease.

I mean, first of all, Charlie's character is canonically bisexual and that.

Yeah.

The, you know, this last week's episode of Slow Horses ended with a sort of synthy wave moment.

This starts with take on me by a ha.

So that music plus this lighting is the entirety of atomic blonde essentially.

So yeah, that 2018 because that's when a blade runner 2049 comes out, which is drenched

in this masterpiece.

A atomic blonde.

If you're a robot, are you bisexual?

Let's ask Anna D'Armas.

I mean, I just have questions.

She's just made of this light.

You know, generally, Janelle Monet 2018 single make me feel it was such a thing in like 2018

that a bunch of.

I thought you made Janelle Monet.

I was like, that thing never left for some of us.

There's no was such a thing is such a thing Janelle Monet.

But 2018 was such a sort of like fever pitch of this conversation that many, you know,

New York magazine BBC guarded like all these places had explainers.

It was so funny because I was reading some of them.

And I just want to say there's no way there's nothing to make you feel sort of like older

or how long I've been having this conversation with myself.

Then to see tweets you wrote in 2018 cited inside of articles about bisexual lighting.

Can you quote some please?

It's not things I wrote, but just sort of like the assassination of Johnny Versace.

Yeah.

That was this lighting, the moonlight poster.

Of course.

Is maybe atomic blonde is like the movie I think of, but that that triptych moonlight

poster, I think about a lot when I think about bisexual lighting.

Anything else that comes to my eye for you?

I think there's kind of a weird tangle here between just coming out of the 2000 specifically,

which I associate much more with like chrome, very static sort of lighting.

And this being like a very neon era in general, like a reclamation of as you alluded to,

like a lot of these very 80s color schemes.

And so there's some that just kind of stumbled into it by accident.

And then there's some like, I mean, we've just been talking about euphoria this year.

I think clearly euphoria is if not piloting this moment, hijacked it and just like, fluid

wherever you think it fluid, but certainly is a part of the formula.

Lucky season one, episode three, the two by by icons by cons, Loki and Loki, Loki and

so the director of that episode, Kate Heron, has said I intentionally put bisexual lighting

on a scene for a reason.

So all this, San Judith Paro, that's a huge one.

Yeah.

Black Mirror, heart stopper, heart stopper, neon demon.

He did rivalry, the tattoo club sequence and he did rivalry.

One of the most iconic meamed sequences is drenched in this as a character is really

kind of understanding his bisexual identity at the same time.

Well, that's the cheat code too.

If like, how do you, how do you organically introduce bisexual lighting into your show

or movie?

You put them in a fucking club.

I was watching this great video about bisexual lighting where he was, he had clips from

the documentary Paris is burning where they were talking about sort of club lighting and

how it's associated with movement and being free and feeling safe in your identity and

all this sort of stuff like that.

So the connection is not so tenuous between club lighting and then like sexual freedom inside

of all that sexual identity.

I just want to highlight it two more really that I have on my list.

Kylo versus Ray at the end of Force Awakens.

It's a red saber, but the way it's lit almost snow is very by lighting in the way.

And the way their light their faces are like lit by the sabers.

This one I do buy, but there is I feel pardoned.

But there is a red, like red and blue are just such common color motifs across the board

for everything ever.

And some people try to grab that and latch onto it in the tumbler sort of way.

It's like, is this bisexual lighting?

Sure.

I think the reaches can be a little strong at times, but last yet, I do tend to agree.

Anything else you want to mention?

I think we hit the main point.

I mean, there's also stuff that's like kind of borderline or suggestive like spring

breakers, I think is in that zone two where it's like, is it part of the text?

I don't know, kind of, but it's almost more pink than it is blue.

And also I want to note too that I think there is clearly the sexual fluidity part of this.

There's also just a broader gender fluidity part of this lighting and conversation.

It's like, to me, it's more gradient than it is pink and blue if that makes sense.

Absolutely.

It's a spectrum.

So it's been said.

2018, the bisexual lighting conversation was so prominent in certain quarters that the

pantone color of the year was ultraviolet, like intentionally sort of as referenced

bisexual lighting.

It's 2018 one of the time.

I think that hit everything.

The Legend of Korra finale, of course, very important.

And what I will say about, so is it being used intentionally here to denote any sort

of bisexuality with like river or sand or anything like that?

I don't think so.

In fact, this episode is a very neon episode because you get the whole Shake Shack green

neon sequence.

And then Diana, when she's back at the park by herself, there's a lot of like blue neon

lights around the park.

Everything happening at Nova Bowl is in this palette.

Well, that's what I'm saying.

Like Nova Bowl is, but then you get the green and then you get the blue.

So I think this is just a very like neon in general episode.

So I'm not reading anything, but I did see people respond to the images from this episode

on Twitter.

And they still occasionally go on there where they were like, River and Zid in the bisexual

lighting.

What are we doing?

So we just thought we would just take this moment to appreciate bisexual lighting.

I mean, we also get a moment of co and bisexual lighting.

And frankly, we'll never know, sadly.

We will.

Never know.

All right.

That has been bisexual lighting and a preview of our eulogy for our guy co.

What a real one.

Shall we return to a more London palette for our lighting?

Would you like to do the clap thing again?

No, I think that was rude, probably in retrospect, but Jacob's got our back.

So let's shift.

Let's get back to normal.

You know, let's shift back to our normal lighting.

Jacob, if you would.

Okay.

See now I feel washed out.

That's horrible.

Now I feel so wrong.

Let's just like live life of bisexual lighting.

It's a much better place to do.

It's quite gentle.

All right.

Up to four lost and found.

Over halfway down with the season.

Let's take a moment, Rob.

What's the intern connecting plot as you understand it of this episode?

I mean, I think we're starting to put it all together.

I did find it very helpful for Oliver Nash to swing through and be like, so if you're

a little behind me, let me catch you up on exactly what's happening.

There was an attack by Russian operatives against British citizens on British soil,

with the nerve agent, which we got in like reference to an episode one.

Exactly.

Teased out, but I believe we'd never seen on screen or really heard alluded to before

this series.

Is that correct?

I think so.

Okay.

And then Taviner sent, I mean, pretty clearly, Sid Baker or air quotes Sid Baker.

However, you want to view it at this point in the story to Kazan killed one of the GRU agents

responsible for set it up retaliation retaliation, which she let slip on national TV.

Not a good.

Here's thing.

Don't do the retaliations and then don't accidentally slip the retaliations, but it sounds like

Damian and his crew knew to plant that question because she used the money.

Yep.

It came from the Russians.

She said.

She said.

She said, to fund this off the book's mission because all of us like you didn't have the

money to do this.

Exactly.

And then she's like, well, then I couldn't have done it.

But this is what she used the money for, which is why she's so scared and why Damian

and Judd could intimidate her into the television interview.

But while she was on set interview, they could say, hey, what about retaliation?

Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

So Vasily, who is this Russian individual on the phone, is demanding Sid Baker and safe

passage for his agents, which I have to assume are Jim and Jane.

I mean, demanding it for starters.

As we see with everything with Taverner right now, it was naive for anyone to ever believe

it was going to be one thing.

So do you think the slow horses, so Frank Harkness is there to do cleanup on Naismith?

Yes.

And what about the whole aspect, which was to get the list of slow horses that it seems

is facilitating this mission.

But like maybe only tenuously connected.

Well, so the question we've been asked in this whole time is like, why are they killing

the slow horses?

Right.

Willie Nilly without interrogating them without finding out what they know.

So there's just sort of like, it seems like it's a squeeze where it's just sort of like,

we will randomly kill slow horses until you give us Sid Baker.

Sid Baker.

So that makes more sense to me in terms of we were like, why is Truman Loy, why, you know,

K, why, why these people, like, what could they all possibly know?

Yeah.

And that has nothing to do with it.

It's just the fact that they're from Swellhouse.

And so did Diana delete the digital file in order to try to hide them and protect them?

It seems maybe so.

Okay.

And we should also say this framing that we're offering right now that the show offers

pretty directly.

I would say is a pretty strict reputation of the idea that there is a tracker in SIDS

head because when Jim and Jane show up, as SIDS says to kill her at River River's grandfather's

house, we know that they had talked about River in a previous episode.

They show up at River's grandfather's house.

They are as surprised to see her as anyone.

So it's like, it's clear they were not tracking her to David Cartwright's house.

So they just happened to find her there.

They happen to find her there.

And now are like, I mean, the windfall of the century is you have the assassin that you

are hoping to squeeze out right here in the old.

And I think, you know, she talks about how they came after her previously.

So I wonder if they started with Sid.

Sid disappears.

And so they're like, okay, we'll just kill how many slow horses we can find until you

give us Sid or we ferret her out or whatever the case may be.

So then Lam's involved obviously because his joes are being targeted.

And I think that's all of our players, you know, and Emma is drawn into the action inside

of this episode.

And I think that's why I was obviously targeted so she's drawn in Louisa's danger.

So she's drawn in.

And I think that's everyone.

I think the only other character to introduce that this episode introduces is this woman,

Natasha.

Natasha.

Okay.

A hot Russian agent in her name is Natasha.

I mean, they didn't they didn't call her by name as Natasha.

But as soon as it showed up in the closed captioning, I was just like, do you have no shame?

I was it's tough.

So I guess if you're doing the org chart at home.

Yes.

Vasilie gets Natasha who I don't know if they're like she works for him in some capacity.

Yeah, but we don't report to him in some capacity.

We don't maybe she is squeezed in the way that other people in this plot are squeezed.

We don't know who she is kind of Damien's runner or running Damien.

I should say who hires Frank, who then is outsourcing henchmen to help bring in Reese

to tie up that particular Louisa.

Right.

But Frank is not involved in the gym and Jane assassination plot because when Jackson's

asking about it, he's like, oh, people are killing your horses.

Anyone I know something, you know, my grand son perhaps.

Yes.

All of that is true.

And what Damien says he wants is that contract, whatever exactly that means we don't know.

But that's those are the stakes for him is he's like, it was a very like.

Harry Lloyd as the serious I want the I want the throne.

It's mine.

Like I want that contract like a very tantrum.

I want to be like little spoil boy moment.

But a very different dynamic between I want to be king versus I want to like, cuck me

harder almost, you know, it's like it's a slightly different energy from him.

Cuck me mother Russia.

I mean, when you're saying like show me the hoops to jump through, I wouldn't say that's

kingly exactly.

But I'm like, will the contract bring him untold riches?

What, what doesn't he already have all the money in the world?

What could you want?

I think he just wants a GRU advertising deal.

He's like, you know what?

Let's fill this commercial space.

You know, okay.

Um, so I think we did it.

I think those are all the players.

Let's start at the bowling alley.

Well, we missed one player.

This guy working at the bowling alley.

I, I, I would say he asks more clarifying questions than anyone else who's in the services

in the show.

Yeah, literally anybody.

He, he comes in strong with a Macbeth reference.

No, man, born of his mother, like great stuff.

Um, dies pretty soon thereafter.

And, and we should say we should go back to last week's episode.

So we were wondering if Ann was okay.

And a bunch of our listeners like, well, like did you notice that Jim and Jane are now

driving her car?

We don't think Ann is okay.

And I will say the quickness with which Jane dispatched the bowling alley employee means

that I don't think Ann will be tasting any more Freyventos buys.

It's over for Ann.

Curtains for Ann.

That part could be better for her in terms of the Freyventos.

I guess we'll find out.

Tune in.

I'm, I mean, look, I choose to believe in my heart of hearts.

Ann's okay.

That she's okay.

Maybe that's just me telling myself that they sent her to a farm upstate, but she's

probably okay.

I want to believe it.

She's scamp.

Okay.

What kind of hope?

Um, do you have any takes on take on me?

The Alha song that plays with you at this episode?

I think there's only one take that can be had, which is a fucking rules and it works

every time.

I sang this song in my Acapella group in college.

Wow.

Really cool story to tell you.

What's your range?

Where are you?

Oh, I was, I was a soprano at the time.

Uh, and, uh, I just want to share some of the lyrics from take on me that are my favorite

and I remember it.

Today is not my day to find you.

Shying away.

I'll be coming for your love.

Okay.

Yeah.

Um, this is not written by native English speakers or say after me, it's no better to be

safe than sorry.

I just think that this is one of the best songs pop songs ever written.

Uh, and when you marinate in the lyrics for a second, you go, what's happening here?

I would argue that's why it's one of the greatest pop songs ever written.

All of all vibes and like, again, it's not better to be safe than sorry as a perfect

example.

It just, it's no better.

Sorry.

It's no better to be safe than sorry.

It just needs to sound vaguely poetic and interesting and your brain locks it into a

box that says, Oh, that's what a line.

And it works.

All time iconic music video too.

Um, okay.

You flag this last week, the ease with which Sid lies and rivers a little perturbed by

it.

Yeah.

Uh, like an agent, like a secret agent.

Okay.

So everybody's making good points here between the two of them, I would say, river, at least

noticing that Sid lies a lot.

Once he noticed by the end of this episode, how much she's lying clearly not, I would

say, so this episode is entitled, what, Lost and Found.

I would say alternate title, river is slow on the uptake.

It's just brutal for our guy at every step.

Is the slowest moment of the uptake?

Well, he lingers around Kho's body and I think he should because this is a guy that he spent

a long time with, especially in that one season.

Um, they'll always have that season though.

Um, but for him to then be like, always sit okay.

I was like, fast-rever.

Let's go.

Let's go find Sid too late.

Just casually walking around with Eden to Sandwich trying to, trying to, hey, where's,

what's everybody doing?

Has her, like, Kho's disappeared from the arcade game, but where is everybody?

I think, well, I actually want to give River some credit because like he notices Kho is missing

and he bothers to like do something.

You know what I mean?

It's like he has eyes on Kho.

I mean, this is bare minimum stuff.

You are on the run and there are assassins after you.

Why are you disposing across them all?

Well, that's, that's a group question.

Why are we, why are we giving up at all?

It's true.

Look, we're going to get to all that stuff.

Okay.

In this moment though, I do think this is one of my favorite, it's my favorite performance

moment of this entire episode.

It's Jack Loudon watching Sid lie her ass off about her, her poor, poor brother.

His face is so good.

I mean, you just get a lot of squinting, a lot of incredulity.

There's like some unenthusiastic yes-anding by the end of it.

The comforting her.

The comforting her.

Yeah.

And I would, I would describe his other facial expressions here as like a guy trying hard

to do math, but trying to make it clear that he's not doing math in his head.

Sorry, math's in his head.

Oh, great.

Thanks.

Would you put his face on that gif of the woman with all the equations?

That's basically it.

If someone was a superimposed equations over Jack Loudon here, it would not go in this.

I want to shout out the co-performance in this moment because when the car gets lit up

by Jim and co-just like, he's just so unflappable in always.

But inside this episode, like the car, you know, two times in this episode, he's in a car

that's getting shot at and he just has like, he moves with quickness.

Yes.

Grab the keys, goes.

Later when there once again being shot out, he sort of like dodges the bullet with

quickness, but does not, and it's not driving very well.

But we're like, can we just go please?

But unflappable or like the really weird way he's running through the laundry room where

I just think, you know, this is his last episode.

He's going to be messed.

I think we should not only shut him out.

To me, the rolling out of the car and the near death by Mint is the best bycraft of this

episode.

I think the way in which, like if that's River in the car, he's like batting down the

hatches, like trying to find some kind of weapon to defend himself.

Co understands you got to get the hell out of there.

And does it in a way where he's now running circles around Jim as they're going around

the bowling alley?

Almost gets the drop on him.

Yes.

Except Jane shows up to save Jim's ass.

Worst use of spycraft perhaps River wrestling the bowling pin away from Sid so loudly that

it draws fire from Jane.

Really bad.

I mean, Sid will, will like dress him down for this later, but this is like a really

bad look for our guy.

Yes.

I think there's, I mean, she said as him dead to rights about this whole thing.

And I think there's a bunch of things happening.

Part of what makes this episode really saying is trying to understand where both Sid and

River are coming from as they are holding a part coming together, like looking at each

other logging Lee over various cues as one is odd to do about your, you know, your spy

crush of a past life.

Yeah.

But I think for River, especially some of that of him trying to wrestle the bowling pin

away from Sid when he sees her, like maybe have a moment of trepidation, which is like

physical shaking in response to this moment is River being River.

This is shit he always does.

That part is baked in.

I think there's also clearly the guilt about her getting shot in the first place and the

lingering effects that may have had on her life and died of they have had on her life.

I think there's also him wanting her to think he is cool and good at his job and wanting

to like defend her.

And then by extension, just like whatever unresolved feelings he clearly has, like the, the

blind spot that River has for Sid is just so prominent all throughout this episode.

That's very true, but also just like River is just constantly incompetent, but the incompetence

comes with sort of like Moon, Moon cafyes in this particular flavor.

He is like simultaneously bleeding out like the blood from his hand is making him trying

to wrestle the bowling pin out of her hands, a slippery affair.

Yeah.

He later call him arrogant and bulldozing.

She is right.

Absolutely.

But then I love that.

I mean, I really love their dynamic and I love that she says all of that to him.

And then she goes and buys him a novelty license plate with his name on it.

This is a really key moment and you can't understand this as a rob because as a rob your whole

life, your name has been on those novelty as a Joanna.

That is not the case.

And I bet it's never the case for River.

So to find a little novelty license plate with River's name on it, it's like I have no

choice.

I have to get it.

Well, this is where I think really the entire mystery came together for me because as

soon she sees the novelty license plate that says River, I'm like, this is a mission

and possible style setup.

Like this mall doesn't exist.

This is a fabricated facility by the GRU.

And that's how Jim and Jane noted that they're here because it's all under camera.

There is no universe in which that river license plate exists.

I agree with you.

It just does not happen.

So I like, I appreciate the gesture.

Clearly they have this very special relationship and I love seeing as this episode progresses,

Sid's version of this same like in her head dynamic where you get a lot of far off glances,

you get a lot of like bubbling anxiety from her like clearly she is feeling away about

her actions.

It seems putting River and the other slow horses in danger, like leading to this chain

of events.

I would be shocked if she that character Olivia Cook is playing Sid as if she feels somewhat

responsible for what's happening.

So do you think so where would you place your bets then?

Okay.

So what you're looking at is like, do you think it was Sid Baker or Sid Baker who pulled

this assassination?

I think it's it feels very clear to me that it is actual Sid Baker.

Okay.

And I would say by extension of that, we can talk about this later in the episode, but

for me, the worst spy craft in this episode is Sid not understanding that she's been

burned.

By Taviner specifically.

Yeah.

River gets to be right about something where he was like, please stop trying to call Diana

Taviner.

She's like, no, I will.

She came and checked on me like I have loyalty to her.

And then for Diana to say, trace the call and then drop it and Sid not understand what

that means and to keep calling and put herself in this mold of position where she gets

nabs by Jim and Jane at the end of the episode.

It is interesting to me, you know, Vasily on the phone like he wants Sid Baker.

He doesn't want to shoot her in a car outside of this rest up services station.

They want to run a plane or something because like they don't kill Sid.

They grab Sid.

Yes.

And I think that's interesting.

But I think the torture for what?

I guess because what information like I don't know what the leverage play is there exactly

or maybe just to get more out of my five more recompense for everything that happened.

But I just really enjoyed the running Sid River stuff all throughout this episode.

And really this idea of River looking at her and not understanding that lying is part

of their job.

And by extension, River wanting to be an action hero and Sid being like, what the fuck are

you do?

Like you can just run.

You can let me handle this part.

It's like, I think the ways in which he is bulldogged and just kind of trying to run

through every wall to me is the river experience all throughout this show.

But seeing him work alongside a spy who is acting a little more like a spy was very refreshing.

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Let's talk about, I mean, let's just do all this in reverse.

Sure. Why not?

Let's talk about Jim and Jane and the car outside the service station when they

start speaking Russian to each other.

And they have this very like tender moment.

He says it's always, it's always just us, right?

And then she sort of like tenderly like touches his wound on the back of his head.

The Americans has never left us.

I love this.

It's really good.

I love this.

And I love this.

Like there's a couple of things inside of this episode.

There's this and there's also like the henchmen that Frank hires.

Like if you just hire some random hedges for the back half of a season of

slow horses, you could do any number of things.

But for one of them to be so nervous and excited to meet Frank Harkness,

that he gets like diarrhea and has to like show up late and he's so anxious.

And he's like, he's fanboying over Frank Harkness.

Like you've, you've humanized these like random henshies that we meet halfway

through a season.

And if they make it through this season, I'll be very surprised, you know?

And then like, or maybe they'll be like new main characters on slow horses.

They're going to be a whole spin off unto themselves.

But Jim and James similarly to give them this sort of like sit in Bizarro,

sit in River parallel in the car outside is just like, you know,

and to talk about your favorite thing to talk about English food,

I'll buy you a pork pie when this is all over.

It's kind of alarming when you hear it all just listen out and rapids

succession, the pork pie, the steak bake, the steak bake, the sausage,

drill like how much of British cuisine is just pastry,

like just literally made wrapped in pastry.

And it's like, we got to do better, you know?

And by better, I mean, you can't just mush your vegetables into paste.

Like you got to have real food, but moushy peas are a whole thing.

They are a thing.

I promise I'm not defending moushy peas.

I would never would.

It's very complicated.

But to your larger point, I love this.

I love this moment.

It's something that we don't get, I think often enough out of slow horses,

villains, and especially like mid level villains, right?

Like these are, these are not big bads.

They're just kind of pursuing assassins.

Villain of the of the season we must assume.

Exactly.

And we'll get like, yes, moments where they get to be fun or conniving or like

trade banter with, you know, our leads or whatever,

but getting a moment of real sensitivity and that sort of like external

life beyond the plot.

I the show doesn't often have time for that.

And so even making one moment for it is very welcome.

Have you ever seen the, I don't know about that.

I think.

I mean, Jim and Jane aren't like the main main villains of this episode of

this season, but they kind of, I don't know.

I feel like something so horses has done with the sleeper agent in the

previous season or with Roddy Hose girlfriend.

Yeah.

Like I do feel like they find a way to make these villains sort of interesting.

And oh, interesting for sure.

And have some sort of emotional interiority.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's less than the emotional interiority and more,

they're usually kind of on an island or they're in an,

they're in an organization where they are being made vulnerable like

Roddy's girlfriend.

It's like, they're kind of being hung out to drive.

Or like in the, in the, in the kidnappers in the first season,

there was like one guy who was just sort of like,

this is not right.

What's happening here?

And he was right.

There's always a sense of the ranks, honestly, it seems like of the Nazis.

So yeah.

And then do you want to talk about our gray co always?

What do you think?

I mean, just tremendous work for me.

I thought about bringing in the earbuds too.

But I was just sort of like, let's, let's leave him be.

This is a, this is a sad, horrible death.

This is a real full circle moment for co.

If you'll recall, we met him in his first introduction.

When, when Roddy was handcuffed up in the office,

and he wanted to unhand cuff him in Charlie's like, let him stay, you know,

it's funny.

And then he tells a story about how he was handcuffed and tortured.

And someone tried, was like threatening to disembowel him with like a carving knife.

And so the fact that he dies disemboweled, this is a very pointed thing in the book

that like he has this trauma that his PTSD, the reason he wears the headphones all the time,

is something like that is PTSD from being tortured and threatened with disembowelment.

And so the fact that he dies disemboweled is this like very sharp thing that that

McHarrin does inside of this story.

But I love this, this interaction that they that he and Jim have in the,

in the bathroom before their fight, similar to spoiler my favorites in the episode,

which is Frank and Jackson at the Shake Shack.

This sort of like, we're not so different you and I, you know, like game,

recognized game sort of moment push knife, like the smile,

the sort of like, oh, your pension must be good.

Like that sort of interaction before this incredibly brutal fight between Tom

Brooks and Kyle Salner.

I just thought was really, really good.

I think setting it up kind of foregrounding us with those earlier co moments and earlier seasons,

where it's like, when the shit hits the fan, he is maybe the one slow horse you could

really count on to respond with appropriate violence,

like who is like so formidable and so dangerous and can be so surprising that it's like,

I kind of just half expected him to survive.

Like I really thought maybe this is how Jim gets taken off the board.

Maybe Jane gets chased into a corner as a result of this.

Well, he put his knife in his heart.

You would think that's enough, but apparently not.

Wow.

I mean, shout out Jim, I guess I just want to shout out some of my favorite co moments.

Yes.

Uh, in in a history of the show, the paint can incidents, uh, top tier.

Yeah.

If you don't recall, uh, as Co is climbing down from a fire escape and this sort of like

rubbed gold, burgiant incident, a paint can kills the far right candidate for London mayor.

Yes.

Uh, and when he lands, rivers like what did you just do?

And he's like climbed down a ladder.

What did you just do?

It's a fair question.

This guy is dead, talking Shirley down when Marcus dies.

I mean, like really, really great.

Um, using rivers left over money from buying him clothing to buy himself some cherries

and then just eat them in the car and then asked for the bag with the clothes in it.

So he can spit the pits into that.

Um, really good stuff.

Telling a river about himself, telling Shirley about herself, telling it like

psychoanalyzing everyone incredible figure out the plan, the plot last season when he was

like, this is the playbook.

This is what we do when we want to destabilize the country.

That's what we do.

He solved it in like episode two.

But my favorite is when Catherine tells him to stop listening to music and he's like,

it's podcast.

She's like, you can't listen to music and he's like, it's a podcast.

Then she says it one more time and then she leaves and he's all alone.

The room he just goes, it's a podcast.

I almost clipped it.

It might, it should be like maybe our official audio show.

Yeah.

It's podcast.

Co is one of our people, you know?

Um, I'm really going to miss him.

I think the combination, as you said, of the humor, like how off he is, like clearly

doesn't know how to connect with other human beings anymore.

And yet is the most emotionally available slow horse somehow is just like such a unique

combination.

I don't know that I've ever fully seen a character like him.

Like clearly there are outside or silent types who chime in and like lots of shows, lots

of movies.

I think the, the insight and the like very precise way with which they deploy him on

slow horses is something that's really hard to replicate.

And so as you're thinking about what is the future of this group?

Like how are they going to create a new dynamic without him?

Like, he is a powerful counterbalancing force to have taken off the board.

Is surely going to be okay.

No, surely.

Previous episode was like, I like him, you know, when he was like, she's like, why does he

go alone and lives like nobody likes him?

Which is because I like him and she already lost Marcus like gives surely some stability.

So the closest thing co has had to a friend is surely I would say maybe beyond that,

you know, we all die alone, but he got to die with maybe his closest confidant in the

world, which is the push knife.

So if you're going to hold on to one thing in the end and he's got it all.

I don't think he was listening to music when they were fighting.

So do you think he put the music on as he was dying?

Or do you think Jim put the music on for him?

That's sad to think about that Jim would cue something up.

What do you know?

Post murder playlist?

That's rude.

Can I redo this section of the book?

Please.

The section you don't see, co-die in the book, but you are with River when he finds co,

okay?

Let me ask you about that out of the gate.

Would you have preferred that?

Would you have preferred, we don't see co-die, but we see the lead up in the aftermath.

Or do you like having the fight to you?

Well, we kind of get that because, you know, we see Jim like sort of stab him in the

back.

But we don't know, no, no that he's dead.

That's true.

We do get quite a bit of shattering, urinal, and I mean, it's just, it's just gross and

grimy in there.

Where was Henry Cavill reloading his arm?

Yeah, now many, many people are wondering.

Okay.

This is the passage from Joe Country.

He, meaning River, he sat next to co and neither spoke for a long while until River

at last said, okay, then said it again, breathing it out slowly, making it a paragraph.

Okay.

He closed JK Co's sightless eyes with his palm.

From a distance, co head looked peaceful as if you were taking a rest after combat.

His hands folded across his stomach.

Up close, he had clearly been holding his stomach in, which is how it's depicted on the

show as well.

The knife, the other man's knife, River, guess lay on the ground beside him, staining

the snow.

And if an expert might have been able to choreograph the, the moments preceding this

tablo, it was enough for River to know that co head won the battle, which is not, it's

a different character in the book, so it's not the same thing.

You made his way to this tree once the fighting was done.

Though even a partisan view would have to admit that long term, you'd have to call it a draw.

This isn't my carrot where he's like, here's this terribly poignant moment where River finds

co.

And he's like, I'll put a joke in here anyway because that's what I do.

But I just, I, I mean beautifully written.

Of course.

I'm going to, I'm going to miss him.

I'm going to miss, I'm going to miss this guy.

I'm going to miss him.

And then River gets to run, which is his favorite thing today.

It is certainly his favorite thing.

I mean, let me ask this about clearly in terms of the construction and the way that co-died

in the novel as you alluded to him being gutted is a part of the, the, the poignancy of his

end.

With Jim and Jane, they've been walking around shooting people the whole time.

Is there any particular reason he doesn't walk in with a gun?

He might have had a gun.

I don't, I can't remember what to make this a knife fight.

Yeah.

When he was like push knife, like sort of this like, let me, where you are.

Maybe that, maybe it's that simple.

You know what I mean?

Like, you've got that.

I've got this knife.

Let's have a knife fight.

I do, I do love not only the game recognized game part of that, but like just the straight-up

honesty of like, so who do you, the who do you work for?

Yeah.

And it's just like, let's just put it all out there.

Like, there's no use in hiding something.

He's like, I'm going to tell you because one of us is not leaving this bathroom.

It's true.

Let me go back.

I did forget one of my favorite co-moments, which is like kind of when the push knife

was first, not first introduced, but really like named.

Yeah.

I think you and I had a moment where we're like push knife.

This is a thing we didn't know.

Yeah.

So when they go up to the old ladies door, they're at the door and rivers like, do you have

one for me?

And he's like, no, he's like, well, what what am I going to do?

And he's like, decoy.

Great co-moments.

Honestly, it's what they're both best at.

River distracting, sometimes running, co-stabbing people.

And unfortunately, today being stabbed.

Joe, want to start with like the one earlier thing at, I guess the bowling alley, but also

by extension, the arcade at the off-road mall.

Yeah.

Services.

I'm like, I'm very confused about everything that's happening here.

There's one real video game in this mix.

Okay.

I don't know if you're familiar with the game series Cruisin.

Most, most famously here as Cruisin USA.

Should we bring the bisexual lady back up?

You know, I didn't intend to, but it does court it, you know?

So there is an iteration of Cruisin, which is like the driving game that certainly is

that the bowling alley, I think co is also playing later in the episode when he is on

the virtual road.

Every other game is like extremely fake.

And I was doing us a licensing thing where they have to license the games.

I'm sure, but did they want to use it?

Was Cruisin just dirt cheap?

Like what happened?

They were like, well, it's co's last stand.

And let's give him a real video game to play.

We're not going to make him do Kirkland, but Cruisin, you know, like it's given the

real deal.

Just driving.

But I would like to, I have two questions for you.

I'm going to give you a list of these extremely fake games that I want to know which one

you would play.

Look, I would love to know you find yourself in an arcade.

What is your general zone?

What are you gravitating towards?

That's a great, why I mean, like the driving games are really fun.

That's where you, that's where you would go.

You sit in a little like a coupe and drive.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

But you're not picking up like a little fake machine gun.

You're not, you know, no pinball free.

I could see you being a pinball person for sure.

So these are the games that are available in the arcade.

If it's like, if we're not just talking like if it's like a general our ski ball is actually

my actual answer.

I don't know if that like counts in what you're asking.

Absolutely.

But ski ball 100%.

I'm very good at it.

Look, I think I think we're going to need to put that to the test someday for content.

But these are the games that are available.

What's the friendship?

Well, also that.

But I want the people to partake, you know, I don't want to be selfish about it.

Sure.

Mystic Mushroom Mayhem.

Demon Dragons 2.

Dance Magix, which is like a DDR style game.

Are you a DDR guy?

I certainly was.

I would like to believe if I hopped out there.

We just kind of are a Scott pilgrim.

Would you say?

I mean, that's very rude to say.

It's one of the neatest things you've ever said to me.

Turbo Rally.

And then there's just a game called Box.

Boxes.

I really don't know what it is.

Like sort of Minecrafty and like let's build things.

Unclear.

Okay.

So do like the mystery of box like what would you play out of this group?

Mystic Mushroom Mayhem, obviously.

But what even is that?

Something drug fueled.

I think I would like to play it.

I think we're going to have to someone needs to design first.

Mystic Mushroom Mayhem.

And we will gladly play.

I was like, it was a wonderland theme to kind of think.

Could we do it?

I think so.

We can move on to the other plotlines.

I want to do hoodie then.

Okay, let's talk about Frank and then how he intersects with flight and Roddy and

race and all of that.

Sure.

So I just want to shout out Frank and the lady from Reese's home.

Really incredible interaction.

Really good.

We have incredible interaction.

We get to see the Frank Harkness charm, I guess.

You guess?

This was almost my pick for like Britishism, like most English sort of moment.

When she says, it was a filthy bugger and all.

Look like he just crawled out of a skip.

He was a filthy bugger and all.

Look like he just crawled out of a skip.

Is very good.

That is my exact nominee.

Specifically, look, my introduction to the word skip.

I just, I love getting to Google things all the time with the show.

You love the skip dive.

I don't love a skip dive.

But a vocative way to describe Jackson Lam.

I love this sequence.

I love this is how he learns that Jackson Lam is in the mix here and how that changes the

calculus of what's happening for Parkness because again, leading up to show down at the

Shake Shack, which is my favorite.

One of my favorite scenes of all time in slow horses.

This sort of respect and I need to sort of like approach this differently attitude from

Frank when he finds out that Jackson is involved.

I got a hench up.

Yeah.

I need guys.

Yeah, I need backup.

You got to figure this out.

I had everything about Frank's trajectory, his body language, the ways communicating with

Damien.

I mean, they're going to need a bigger boat.

Everything has shifted under his feet.

And then you get these two fucking titans at the table together over, you know, a half-eaten

burger and whatnot.

And the regs of a shake.

Of course.

Great branding opportunities on this show.

I don't know what Shake Shack paid to be this spot.

It's like every season Jackson Lam will disgustingly eat some food of some kind.

It could be your food, you know, your brand.

What should he slurp next?

The Shake Shack in Camden.

Like, should people make pilgrimages there?

I think they should.

I'm going to London soon.

Maybe I'll go to the Shake Shack in Camden.

I don't really want to go Shake Shack.

I recently visited in Austin.

There's a very famous location of Chili's.

The Chili's on, I believe it's North La Mar.

Because of Friday night lights?

No.

I think it honestly started as a bit.

Didn't they always go to Chili's on Friday night lights?

I mean, they should have if they didn't.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I will, I will defend it to the death as a chain restaurant.

But it became a bit basically as when people would post like, Oh, what are restaurant

recommendations for Austin?

Everyone would recommend this particular Chili's just to like, why not?

And so it has taken out a life of its own.

I have to say after visiting, lived up to the incredible hype.

Just what it wanted to do.

A terrific establishment.

It's really funny because the only Shake Shack I've ever been to is the one on Salple

Mar and Austin because it's right by the draft house right there.

Yeah.

Sort of like looking for a bite and you don't want a draft house food.

You can just go to the Shake Shack which increasingly I don't.

Okay.

Before we go to the Shake Shack again, an iconic location.

Should we talk about flight and Roddy and Reese and Lamb and this.

We still have to.

We still have to.

The delightful combination inside of their apartment.

I already kind of want to take back.

Giving Jack loud in his flowers for the best performance of this episode because Chris

Chung's eyebrow acting is pure to none.

It's really good.

But also I just like this is the most I've enjoyed flight, I think.

Ruth Bradley just sort of like her go the fuck away.

Yeah.

Or desperation, but also her like tenderness around Reese and trying to like.

Oh, I wouldn't say I hated your dad or whatever.

I think it was the double like lamb.

Like I thought better of you than this plus Reese puppy dog eyes as he segways out of

frame.

I think.

I think this is the closest to a lamb shake we get.

This is actually I think of fairly shank light episode.

Quite.

I think I thought better of you is the closest we get to a shank, right?

I I wrote down and again, it's not a true shank, but to your point, it's really not a

lot of them in this episode.

You were right about steering.

Loy it turns out his barbeque was non consensual.

Very good.

Maybe not a shank, but it is barbequeed me.

So it's it's of the of the genre.

I love the non consent.

Very funny.

Um, Emma, the fact that she was interrupted watching the news about Diana and I hope in

a sort of shot.

Come on.

It kind of way.

I hope she was enjoying that.

But no, like I just like I want to give.

This piece of unsolicited advice to Emma or to anyone who's been fired because their

boss was clearly covering up a multinational conspiracy.

Yeah.

Don't go home and watch the news.

Okay.

Go out.

Go out to the bisexual lighting clubs.

That's a great star.

Yeah.

Let loose.

Also, like, I don't bake off straight there.

There's a million chat shows you can watch.

Go play some ski ball.

You could win a giant anywhere.

Anything other than watching coverage of your boss slash the job you used to have.

All things proceed as they do.

Reese, you know, slips away somehow.

Roddy and I have like an incredible conversation about his bathroom adventures.

And then we wind up at the Shake Shack again.

I think the young green lighting is quite beautiful.

Like aesthetically.

Yeah.

This is a beautiful scene.

You're saying the interior of Shake Shack, the restaurant is in fact beautiful.

Usually I think the way that this was I think you could if you're a true artist.

Like Emmy winning director at a rental.

You can make anything look like art.

You know what?

You're not wrong.

And then you've got these Titans.

You've got Gary Olman and you come on.

You come on.

You come on.

We used to run the world you and I.

Spies like us.

And then like a different name then was that my Bowie period.

Like the hand of the darks, not yours anymore.

The writing here is really great.

The performance, this this cat V cat sort of like performance across the table here.

And then the way the entire equations shifts when we shows up from the second reshows

up.

And this is something I've been like searching for from Jackson Lamb, which is like that

he actually cares.

And like, you know, this is what what Frank accuses him of, right?

Which is like grump with a heart of gold or whatever he says about him here.

Old grouch with a heart of gold.

There's always been this idea that like Jackson cares about his Joe's in one way or another,

but like very staunchly covers it.

But when Reese a child in his care shows up and he gives him like the smack the old smack

on the back of the head.

Of course.

But immediately he's just like, how do I get this kid out of here?

And there is a fear inside of Jackson that I don't think I've ever seen him even if he's

experienced it before.

I don't feel like we've ever seen Jackson Lamb this much on the back foot as he is for

just a few seconds before he lights up that cigarette and just sort of like starts his

plan to get them out of there.

But and then like the double act of of Reese and Jackson, like calling, like calling him

a pito and like all this or something like that.

It is tense.

It is.

I'm not going to say it's like the diner scene from heat, but just sort of like to watch

these two guys across the table talking about being like spies across the decades about

how the world has changed without them.

And then to like pivot into this high stakes.

I'm worried about this kid, but the comedy and then watching Jackson just do what he does

best and start a fight with some random woman so that he can like get out of there is just

I just thought this was like everything slow horses can be absolutely tremendous.

And I know some people have heard some commentarians in reaction about this series where people

thought maybe because they know too much about the production of the show like, oh, this

series feels different or the writing hasn't hit for me.

You're saying series in terms of season, but you're saying it to appease the brits.

You're saying series.

I'm yeah, I'm I'm I'm extending the olive branch, you know, I'm ready to be succondent

is what I'm saying.

No, but like I think there have been people who've been bumping on various dialogue points

in the season.

And feel like, oh, this isn't quite what I'm used to.

Me.

I mean, look, the show's been going through it some shifts and some adaptation and all

that's fine.

This did feel extremely slow horses.

And I think some of that is just having actors of this caliber bouncing off of each other,

writing that is that meaty where not like I loved the.

I was like, you know, back in the day, I was having you followed.

I know I knew you knew like dick measuring that's happening before and the way that extends

and you're right, you can really see the complete shifting Gary Oldman as a performer when

Reese comes into the room and the way that his into as you said, his entire strategy has

to change the timing of it, the goals, the objectives, the lighting of the cigarette,

the chain reaction.

And I thought it was kind of a sweet detail that it turned out that Reese shifting the

location to the Shake Shack, which when they were setting this meat, he was kind of

just like calling audibles for the sake of calling audibles.

If they had been in a train station and someone likes a cigarette, I really don't think

it's any kind of issue, but you're in a closed restaurant at a Shake Shack.

And you can wafed an amp just so and then antagonize and get your way out of there as

a result of creating this emotion.

You don't want like Pal Mell's or ruining your experience of Shake Shack.

Absolutely not.

You certainly don't.

But at the beginning of this exchange, I think part of the charge that you're describing

that we're feeling is not just lamb feeling scared for Reese and for his safety, but also

part of that back footing is him earnestly thinking he's going to go into this conversation

with Frank and come out with answers because Frank is so heavily involved in what's happening.

And for the Frank real to be like, I really don't know what you're talking about.

And we buy it and lamb buys it.

You can see his gears start turning in a way that is totally foreign to us.

He's like, this is bigger than I thought it was.

Yeah.

And then I thought it was.

But then he gets his answer right because then he and Rodney and and recent Emma follow

Frank to a second location.

And because Emma is so hot, the hedges can't keep their tongues.

Despite your objections.

No, Emma flight.

As you said in this podcast many times, Emma flight not hot enough.

And here she is turning heads.

I can't believe you did this.

When we talked about this awful.

The end of last episode, you're like, Joanne, you went so.

So out of your way to make sure I knew he thought this one was so beautiful.

They call me out of my crew.

I'm sorry.

I don't know what to tell you.

Well, like what we were talking about last week is I was like, beautiful,

but not the kind of like wolf whistle.

If you were a cartoon, you're talking to me rolling.

But then that's literally what the henchmen do.

They straight up.

They straight up did it.

They will go her.

Yeah.

They have her, you know, covering a press leisure.

Like it's the whole it's the plot of this episode.

Yeah.

But she uses that to find out that Frank is working.

For Damien.

So they've connected that thought that's exactly what Jackson was trying.

The information he was trying to get, he got it.

So onto the next thing.

And not only does she use it, but I think the moment where Emma clocks it of like,

oh, I had this kind of attention.

Yeah.

How do I use it to my advantage?

How can I kind of manipulate the situation?

Yeah.

That's good.

Spicraft in a way that she hasn't been empowered to do a lot on the show.

I want to wrap it up with Damien to say, it's not my favorite scene of the episode.

As I've already mentioned, it's definitely the show down at the Shake Shack.

But I do think Damien coming to Diana's door, talking to her, like,

talking to her through the video.

Like all of that was great because Harry Lloyd is great and

Chris and Scott Thomas is of course great and all that sort of like that.

And his sort of like, flirty sort of whatever creepy thing.

But the combination of him on the video and then you can see his hand,

like down the hall on the window.

Yeah.

I thought that was such like so well framed horror movie moment.

I absolutely loved it.

Well, especially in the context of what this scene is, right?

Like all he's there to do is to tell her to pick up the phone.

Yeah.

There's a million ways to do that, right?

But having him be so close, he can reach out and touch like her home, her place, like

her safety.

Yeah.

It's part of why she picks up the phone.

It's part of why like, he's coming off of his own call with Reese being like kind of

rattled and annoyed and frustrated and a little bit scared that that plane is blown

up.

Wrong number.

But then he gets to turn all that off because he is in a position of power with Diana.

And so he gets to swagger about and make his little jokes.

And it's like, you completely understand why his comportment shifts and also like why

it is so menacing to frame to be there.

And I'm really excited for I hope Diana or someone to get the better.

I mean, like if I had to place guests on a bet on who's going to get the better of Damien

in this season, actually, it might be Frank, right?

Because he's chasing Frank off.

Frank's like, fuck you.

You know, when he hangs up the phone on him.

So like, if I had to guess who might get Damien before the season is done, I might

guess Frank.

Well, especially because Frank, I think we're starting to unpack this a little bit with

his reputation as you talked about with the Hensh community.

But he's kind of lost the thing that made him special.

But like he had a militia of child spies.

He reared into adulthood who he could deploy at his whims.

They're all gone, right?

Like now he's just a general contractor.

And it's like, he's come down the world.

You solve these problems.

You hire people to solve these problems.

Like we're handing this to you.

So we don't have to do it.

Like at some point, I think the frustrations of bumping against that are going to boil

over whether a Damien or someone else.

I also love that he, like, you know, when he was rearing his child army in the sort

of like, countryside of France, as one does.

And then he was like, in the shake shack, he's like, here we are in the middle of fucking

nowhere.

I was like, you're in camp, didn't you?

I can't control.

You can get cheese fries here.

How middle of nowhere could it be?

I think you want to say about Diana, either with her encounter with Damien, with all

of her with Vaseley inside of this episode.

I mean, she's just so screwed.

Like the walls are really closing in on her.

And I mean, predictably in slow horses terms, the only way out is kind of through lay

them in the slow horses at a point.

But even understanding that and like why they would be willing to reconcile, like she's

put everyone in so much danger by going off book in the way that she did.

I'm really glad that when you, when we were kind of going through the plot up top, you

highlighted the specific line of the money and how it was making her feel squeezed.

Because that's something we talked about earlier in the season about, like if she didn't

know where the money came from, if she didn't know its problems, what would it be that

big a deal other than optics?

But it's like, no, this is very deliberately off book in a way that she took a risk for

kind of no reason.

It seems like feeling, feeling yourself as first as that's really it.

Yeah.

Tough.

Let's talk about the Girl Power Quartet to close it out by actual nomination for like

most British line.

Okay.

Yeah.

Comes from our girl Moira when she claims that she can read the map, which she's wrong

about.

Duke of Edinburgh award, which is something I had to look up, plus many happy holidays

in the Yorkshire Dales.

The Duke of Edinburgh award, which we don't have here, plus many happy holidays in the York

shire Dales is just a very English sentence, I think.

So I wanted to sell it.

Well, how about sub nominee for most British thing in this episode of an older woman using

Girl Power and talking to like fairly millennial coded women and trying to flex into them being

like, absolutely the fuck that English.

That's just that's just the world.

Well, I think that I think the spice influence here is like very particular, you know, again,

it's a different version of the same thing as it is so often across the pond.

My lamb shake of the episode actually belongs to Shirley who says we're all missing the

vibrate function in Moira.

That feels like something Jackson lamb would say.

This is such a great Shirley sequence.

Yeah.

Really as soon as the knives start coming out between her Louise, I'm like, wait, hold

on.

This is something I didn't know I needed on the show.

So really good.

Very excited about it.

Like, we just need a very like, yeah, a different kind of animosity when everyone's mad

at Rady Ho or everyone's annoyed with river.

Everyone's like, you know, grading under Lam's lack of leadership for whatever reason,

but Shirley and Louise are fighting.

I think Shirley brings a very particular spice.

The show has been inconsistent in applying and Louise says a great recipient for it.

Is it like a ginger spice or a posh spice or what?

You know what I walked into that one.

It's certainly not baby.

That's for sure.

I think she's a little sporty.

That's what I would say.

They wind up at Diana Tavaners seaside home.

So Jackson Lamb has somehow stolen Diana's keys.

I'm taking Catherine and said, this is the safe house.

So we mentioned this early in the season, how like him saying who wants to be like hold

the keys to give Catherine like purpose to not drink or something like that.

Yeah.

But the fact that there's another layer of that of like, these are keys I stole from Diana

Tavaner and we're going to go to our seaside cottage.

Shout out this, this residence.

It's beautiful, beautiful, very sea ranch.

Oh, yes, very much so.

I think the shot from out on the water of all of the women and wandering in the various

rooms, gorgeous stuff.

I love this.

Here's a question.

As they're checking the rooms, Moira's getting some relief from the long road trip.

Catherine of course finds the wine closet quite impressive.

How many pillows?

Okay, I'm so glad you asked.

Yeah.

On a bed.

Let me tell you five is too many and that's how many Diana Tavaner has on this bed.

What if I told you?

Joe.

I currently have six.

Okay, so hold on.

She has five rows of pillows.

Oh, five rows.

So I guess technically like ten pillows.

Oh, and then ten's two.

Okay, I thought you were saying six rows.

I mean, six is still too many, but I'm just telling you what I say.

Six is a bit, but you know what?

Like I am my mother's son.

I can't pretend she doesn't have four or five pillows on every bed in her home.

Are they like, does your mother enjoy like a lace edge to her pillars?

Like, yeah, this is not, I'm no frills.

I'm not a frills.

I see what you did there.

No.

It's a generation.

No, I mean on the no frills.

Oh, no frills.

But like, there's the grand motherly like sort of or, or you know, and then there's like,

I don't know, aesthetically, it's a different vibe.

It is a different vibe.

Yeah.

I get it.

You're not like, are you like for you at home?

Is this like one pillow only for you at home?

I mean, two layer pillow.

Two layer pillow.

Can be fine.

I'm going to be honest right now.

It's in a very sparring state.

It's more like a one pillow situation.

That's ergonomic.

What I don't like is having to discard the pillows on the floor because where else are

they going to go and then they go back on your bed.

I kind of like that though.

Do you?

You're bringing the ground germs back up to your bed?

How dirty is your floor?

It's a floor.

You know, I have a dog.

I'm walking around there.

I just don't want it on in my pillow area.

Here's the last thing I want to say about this girl power quartet at the safe house.

Is it that you would watch an entire show of just these four paling around?

Because I would.

We had some comments and listen to emails about this.

When Catherine dumped her purse out in the previous episode, the wine opener that she

procured got the corkscrew got like a very clear.

This is going to come back sort of shot.

So do you feel like that's there just so we can open some of the nice bottles that are

in Diana's house here or is the corkscrew going in someone's neck?

Oh, wow.

Why stop at neck?

The corkscrew in a temple is a classic move for a reason.

Oh, or the ear.

But would Catherine stand to shoot that?

Well, it doesn't have to be Catherine who does it necessarily.

But isn't it better if she does?

It is.

I would say one of two things.

One, the only person who is in a position to really see it in the car would be Louisa.

And so if yes, now she is in corporate going on court, you know, retreats to Bali and

whatnot, but still a spy.

Maybe she did notice it.

Maybe there's a conversation as she would be someone who would know.

Yeah.

Catherine's life and status and what's going on and what she's been dealing with.

Maybe there's just like a character moment there, but there could also be a brutal death.

So I kind of hope it ends up being a weapon of choice.

And this is something that still horses all the time, right?

Like how do you turn a group of spies who don't often carry guns into people who can

defend themselves?

And it often results in this kind of migyvering or Jackson lamb having to light a cigarette

to get himself out of a jam.

But one way to do it is with the corkscrew.

Corkscrew to the temple to the neck.

And then I also feel like Diana has so many breakables in that safe house because I mean,

safe house set is especially without all the windows that shot that you called out.

That is such a like there's going to be some sort of showdown at the safe house.

There's really no doubt.

Everyone.

Well, I don't know we're sitting River going now, but like, well, I do know where they're

going.

It's to the safe house.

It's just a roundabout way to get there.

Yeah, okay.

But everyone's going to converge on the day.

This is the rendezvous point.

And people will be thrown through some of those windows.

I just fully expect it as you say a vase, you know, a chachki of a kind, things will

be hurled.

A decorative sort of platter of some kind.

I mean, that's a weapon, right?

Exactly.

You pick it up, you hold it just right, anything can be.

The slur horses have taught us that.

You can split it up into death, you know?

What a way to go.

Anything else you want to say about the set-up?

I think I have another question about the in the feminism audio.

Again, or they've solved it.

They've really gotten to the bottom of it.

Catherine gets so exasperated with everybody and their chat about like, should we do this

plan with the phone, they're bickering amongst each other.

She just kind of like turns her phone on and throws out the window as it means to distract

from their location.

But didn't she just like throw it on the road to show people where they're going?

Yeah.

Okay, I just want to be very clear that like, they're all like, oh, great job.

We did it.

And I'm like, this is on the way that you are driving.

This seems like a bad idea.

This seems like a breadcrumb that you just dropped rather than like.

Maybe this is how we all get to the rendezvous point.

Is Catherine gets tracked and the road leads in a particular way.

But I want moments and I love moments where Catherine gets to feel and be on top of it.

Yeah.

And that did not feel like that to me.

No, it's a classic little horse's moment.

All right, I believe we are wrapping up with a segment that I'm calling the Anne Memorial

Frey bentos taste test.

We have procured some actual Frey bentos.

We did authentic genuine article.

And we're going to taste some right after this.

Okay, I didn't say that we were doing this explicitly at the top of the pod, but we

have procured some Frey bentos.

We have.

You brought an oven from home.

We didn't have one here at the office.

You have a commitment to the bit.

I do.

And we are going to be taste testing Frey bentos pies, which River had at Anne's house

in last week's episode.

These are less expired than that one seemed to have been.

Hopefully.

So we grabbed them.

I think we should.

We each picked a flavor.

What did you pick, Rob?

I went with minced beef and onion.

Honestly, because I thought the onion might save it.

I was taking kidney because it felt the most traditional.

Can I share on the microphone that you thought the kidney and steak and kidney was kidney

bean?

It's one of those charming things I've ever heard of you.

My dialect.

I really thought it might be okay.

Steaking kidney bean.

I got to say some of that is just like, I am not in an organ meat state of mind.

A pie would be more forgiving than most.

And if you're going to do that, not for me.

Okay.

So no, no organ meat.

No, I mean, it depends on how you would define an organ, I guess.

Too much Hannibal.

Do you think or not?

Not enough.

I think I need more, more and more.

So we try this.

We should.

I just want to say like, when you propose things like this, Joe, I am inclined.

You are a beloved podcaster and cultural figure.

A New York Times best seller, a cherished friend.

I just kind of assume that everything's going to be okay.

I follow you into the dark with a lot of this stuff.

Let's be really, really you kicked and screamed about this particular one.

You dragged your feet through the gravy.

Okay.

For the record, you wanted us to order some kind of weird, freight bentos pudding situation.

That's still coming.

It's not here yet.

We don't have to eat it.

I just wanted to like order.

You want to know that it's real.

I just want to order it.

I just think this one might take our lives.

And so if this is going to be the end, it's been a pleasure.

So here's the deal with freight bentos is they call it like a can't.

It's this how to live that you had to use my can opener from home to open.

It's a it's a pie with pastry on top.

And we're going to try it.

We have made the entire studio office.

Reek.

Yeah.

You you a baker.

Yeah.

Do you want to comment on the flakiness of this crust?

You know, it's the classic in the form of my God.

I just went too many layers deep.

And this is like a gushing river, a gushing river of like brown gravy just like like

came into the hollow that I made in the spirit of like a frozen like banquet pot pie.

Yeah.

The top layer gets actually nice and crispy like and nice and puffy.

You go one layer deep and it's straight.

It's straight.

It's straight.

Socks at USA or or socks at UK.

Oh my god.

Would you?

That's too much.

That's too big of a fight.

We got we got a consolidate here.

You know, we got that we got to tone this down.

All right.

Cheers.

All right, Joe.

My friend.

No, I want them.

That's one of the worst textures that were experienced.

Why do people do this to themselves?

The taste is not similar from like a Campbell like any sort of Campbell suit.

TV dinner or kind of like that vibe.

If you ate a Salisbury steak TV dinner, it might taste something like this.

I was really hoping that chunk of me and I had a steak, but I believe it was.

It was kidney.

Well, you went for it right out of the gate.

I did that to myself.

That might be all I need.

That was Joe.

That was rough.

But we are alive.

We are.

I just wanted to see if I can get a chunk of steak so that I can wash the tastes of kidney

out of my mouth.

I'm inclined to kind of get a close up of some of this inner crust, which at this point

is more goop.

It's so goopie.

It's really not great.

I have regrets, but here we are.

I just don't understand how it is that here at the ringer, like you're out there.

What if it's more kidney?

I mean, look, it's going to be honest with you.

That's more kidney than steak in there.

The odds are not in your favor.

I just know you're out here like cavorting with Dave Chang doing like real foodie shit

out here.

And on this podcast, you're like, hey, do you want to eat this disgusting person pie

with me?

And it's, I'm going to note it.

That's all I'm saying.

Yeah.

Okay.

So how, how, what did you get this out of 10?

This is horrible.

Um, three.

I think I might go under actually.

I might, can I try?

Look, I'm not going to trade with you, but you are welcome to dig in.

Well, I just want something that doesn't taste like I think I should.

I really thought kidney would be fine, but guess what?

It's not.

I'm really bad.

I'm not a fan.

Steak at kidney pie is so traditional.

I've just never had it.

Yeah.

I didn't enjoy it.

Um, you want to.

I will vamp while you eat.

It's just, it's a rough experience even looking at this thing.

That's way better.

This is way better way better.

So you gave yours a three.

What do you give the, the minced beef and onion?

Or sorry, beef and minced.

I would like to ramp this down to a one.

Okay.

I'll give that a three.

Okay.

You're going to go to, I'm going to go, yeah, two 1.5 kind of territory under no circumstances

in which you could not eat this.

Should you eat it?

If you have any alternative, I think I would take it.

Whatever.

Let's de-impleance Freibentose.

If you watch that episode, so horses and you're like, that looks like it might be good.

It wasn't.

Maybe there's a chance that the crust that River kept picking at is in fact good.

It's not.

And I will say like I would enjoy like a Marie calendars like frozen.

Oh, absolutely.

I think part of the pocket.

But this and like perhaps they were not meant to ship to the United States.

But it feels like it's a canned good.

They can't good is supposed to like this is supposed to be good in wartime.

I feel like you could take this in the battlefront, the trenches and like warm it over a fire

or something like that.

But it is not good.

It's disgusting.

Well, we tried to see if we could get some Greg shipped out here.

Like we were trying to find more palatable.

You can't get Greg's out here.

It's messed up unless one of our listeners is in the UK and can somehow get us Greg's

in a way that would not like expire.

That feels illegal.

You have to like deep freeze it and then get to us.

You want to go to like the Greg's Dark Web?

Not really.

All right.

We did it.

Thank you so much to you Ramahoney.

So thank you.

And I would say thank you maybe not to Freybento themselves, but just the understanding

and the awareness that within British cuisine, meat wrapped in pastry is a robust category.

It's a whole spectrum of food.

Some of look beef wellington.

I'm a fuck with the beef wellington.

This is just something that no human being should partake in.

Yeah.

There's I've had many sort of like a hand pie sort of situation in the UK that is delicious.

Just not this at all.

So if we ordered the seasonal special chicken teica, Freybento's.

No, because the worst part is the goopiness of the crust.

It really is.

That like one subcutaneous level of crust is just goop and that is unacceptable.

I would love to know we have many listeners from the UK who love slow horses who listen

to these pods.

Do you have like a nostalgic association with Freybento's or this kind of like can't

pie off her head?

Who eats Freybento's?

Like is this sort of like pet pet pensioners eat Freybento's?

That sort of thing was like.

That was river suggestion it seemed like basically.

Right.

Right.

This is an old people food.

Yeah.

And this is sort of like maybe you've lost some of your taste buds and you're just sort

of like whatever gets me my iron, I'll do it.

You know, and if it's taken kidney and a tin.

Sure.

The thing is like as far as you know most people are either like eat to live or live to eat

right.

This is not a food you eat.

This is neither.

This will not keep you alive.

No, it's neither.

So do not eat it.

No.

Thank you so much.

Thank you to Defernaldo who pulled these out of the MN.

Thanks to you for bringing it in oven from home.

Thank you.

Uh, thanks to, uh, the United States Postal Service that got these pies here in other

48 hours.

Thank you to Jacob Cornett for the bisexual lighting among other things.

Thanks to Kai Grady who's not technically supposed to be here, but is here nonetheless.

Just to gok.

Just to be around.

Just to see what's going on with these Freybento's.

Thanks to all of our listeners.

The Prestige TV is Spotify.com for your NEPO babies and needle drops and get caught up

with a gilded age and arstind the Pope a Gmail.com if we have messed up something that has to do

with UK culture and slow horses.

And we will see you for episode five series six of slow horses.

We're almost done.

Bye.

From the studio that brought you one to vision, I was an Avenger, but I'm not a hero anymore.

On October 14th, the vision returns for the final chapter of the groundbreaking trilogy.

That family wasn't real.

You sure about that?

I had a father called Vision.

How is this possible?

Don't miss the two episode premiere of Marvel Television's Vision Quest.

Nothing bonds a family together quite like mortal jeopardy.

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