Preseason Power Rankings, Part 2 (feat. Bill Simmons) | Group Chat

Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Varyer and joining me right before my

very eyes. Rob Mahoney, Jay Kyle, man, we are here in lovely Los Angeles, California,

Rob's hometown. I know. Man of the people. Let me show you around. Let me tell you about LA.

So traffic. So weather. So it's a company town. I don't know if you heard. I'm gonna go to the

IV later. I like, I got you. I got all the spots and by that I mean the 10% of the restaurants I've

made it through on my exhaustive list at this point. I was gonna say you gave me like a list of 20

and I don't even do I even stay remotely where you live. That was impressive. No, but you asked

specifically for Korean town erection. Let's just say it's a robust area. Oh, there's a lot there,

but you have to really be on the ground in search of it. That's what I'm here for. So we are here

for part two of the preseason NBA power rankings. We did part one. So we have a power. We need a drop

right there. Yeah. Please. Yeah, like how do we feel like giving Justin the authority to have like

a radio style drop pad? I'm just in like puts down to fix and whenever he wants. I'm always down

for a live sound board, but you know, part. Actually, okay. I haven't even tried. You know, we just

were supposed to the start on that. Yeah. So we did part one. First five teams are in the books. Part

two is today starting at number 25 and going from there. Little wrinkle to today's episode. We

had a special guest join us for the first two teams Bill Simmons was in the house at the Sikamore

studios. He dropped by to talk about the New Orleans Pelicans and the Memphis Grizzlies. Well,

he heard that we're going to be potting about the Pelicans. Did you say Grizzlies? Yeah. I

love the twilight. Which is kind of like they're the Grizzlies. I like it. They are like chewing on

Grizzles. They are the Grizzlies. I think we can adopt that. You know, we can own it. Great. So

why don't we take a break right now and get over that. Or Kyle and I talked this out real quickly.

And Bill will be joining us. We'll catch you on another side.

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All right, we're back. We're joined by a special guest here for the first time in the preseason

power. He's just in the office. You guys talking basketball? I wondered in office. What's

going on? We're not just talking basketball. We're talking about shitty teams. So, especially one

of your favorite shitty teams, I would say the New Orleans Pelicans are number 25 team.

Wow. Is that true? That's 25? You got it. Do you have any? I think they've been the most fun

summer team. I love Doomars' quote about you shouldn't trade just to trade. Yep. It's said,

well, you actually should trade just to trade when your team stinks and you have a bunch of

pieces that don't match. That's usually when you trade. But he's pretty adamant. No panic here.

We're fine. Question is, are they fine? If you had like asbestos or like an

impestation or something, it's like somebody was like, well, you don't get rid of things to just

to do it. Like, well, no, you have you have asbestos and like an you need to get rid of you've

bedbugs. Like you need to get rid of some stuff. See, we say all this, but isn't trading just to

trade how they got into this mess with their queen in the first place? It's kind of both, but

that is the Pelicans in a nutshell. So, is there any hope for this team this season? We're

going to get to the bad stuff in depth. There's a lot of Zion stuff. There's a lot of what is going

on with the rookies behind them or the second year players. Is there any case that this team can

actually be better considering a lot of these promising players we've been hoping for for a very

long time? Just to now, we're sure. Look, we keep it pretty fast and loose here on group chat.

We have exactly one rule and it is never trust the Pelicans. That's true. I don't know why we would

change now. Well, like, I think to the extent that there is hope, it's like in the middle,

there's some stuff here that works. You know, Siddiq Bay bring in him back on an extension. You know,

don't mind that. Herb Jones. We all like Herb Jones. Traemerfi, absolutely. And then there's

like versions of this team that are young and kind of work and there's versions of this team that

are old and I guess kind of work, but they are not copastetic at all with one another. And so,

what you're supposed to do with these disparate versions of the Pelicans, I really don't know.

It's just like a weird band where a lot of people are playing the same instrument and we're like,

who's writing the songs? Where is it? What's going on with this? Like this team, but they have

quality pieces that we can go through line by line. I mean, they didn't basically nothing other

than adding Benedict Mathroom, which when they did that, I was like, that's the most Pelicans thing

they could have. It just it just fits the vibe and the brand. But yeah, we can get through it here.

Chandon Watford. Jamal Mos, I'm just getting all of this out of the way because I feel like we're

going to go in depth on. Watford is like one of those in the back allies where you ask like really

hardcore NBA fans who like, they're like, I like Watford. The voice goes up, you know. I think

on our Sixers preview last year, I did that exact thing. I just I don't have it anymore, you know.

I was doing I did all my prep last weekend and I actually the the math or anything made more

sense to me than maybe it did when I heard about it because I just in my head, I thought they had

19 guys. So talk us through what do you like about it? Well, they don't really have like a ton of

wings, right? Other than the starters and Bay. So it's like you can make the case. I just I can't

imagine him being happy. Just playing 15 minutes of game coming off the bench is a heat check

eye. But I was surprised there. They're starting five and then basically Queen Bay,

Mathur and Fierce coming up the bench, whatever's left with Jordan pool, the Andre Jordan's 100

years old. But it's it's not like they have 15 guys. But the big thing is what are you getting from

Zion? Who is now? This is his eighth year. Like when they do sometimes the NBA during the media day,

they were like Jason Tatum year 10. Yeah. They had a picture of him. I was like, Oh,

like year 10. That seems like a long time. And I thought the same thing was Zion. It's like,

God damn, we've been doing this for eight years now. And I have no idea if he's a star player or not.

I'm glad you mentioned that because I brought up this stat. So since the NBA merger,

which is a very long time, number one overall picks who didn't appear in the playoffs

through their first seven season, there have been four of them. Two of them are the two most

recent number one picks, Ajit DeBonza Cooper Flagger. The other one is obviously Zion Williamson.

He played in the play in game. Didn't actually make it to the actual playout. I guess the fourth.

Yes. Anthony Bennett. Anthony Bennett, 2013. Because he only played for like a year and a half.

That's right. They moved on from quickly. He didn't really catch on with another team.

Alan Brain and Joe Barry Carroll did it in your seven.

Alokondi did it in your six. Oh, candy. I wonder what his

playout team. Oh, it's Minnesota. That's right. He was on that's right. Yes.

Pretty well built. Well, what is he doing now? What is Michael? Is he literally where is he?

Yeah. Where's Michael? Is anyone have eyes or ears on Michael? All of real estate? I don't know.

I gotta say that was just in a truly atrocious pick when it happened. He was 24 years old and

he went to Pacific University. I really wish like we had had our whole infrastructure in place for

90s and B.A. Some of the decisions that were made and things that happened.

Interesting that the bad drafts, like we think of 13 as a bad draft and people talk about 2000

as like the worst draft. It's interesting that they in those two scenarios that people were like,

let's just pick, but they're like exceptionally bad first pick. It's like,

right. Interesting thinking that they would take a swing and not just go with something.

They take the biggest swing possible. I mean, we need the night we've talked about the 19 draft before,

but it was such a catastrophe not to get one of the top two picks out here. Remember the Nix?

They got three and it was like, oh my god, another kick to the balls. I mean, well,

they just won the title and you wouldn't have wanted the first two picks in this draft the way it's

played out. I don't think either of them been safe bets. Zion is so different though than

every other player you mentioned. It's like at the time and even in retrospect, like the talent is

undeniable, he's still an incredible score. That's what I was going to pause it. I was like, Zion,

he's still good. He's still stood to Odin in that when he plays, he shows something, but it's

never available. Even above and beyond in terms of what he showed, like Odin was still a little bit

of a loose shape. We were trying to get our arms around like the best versions of Zion Williams.

And we have seen, we've seen him on the Floyd's. He's made an all start team. He's made an all start

team. He's made a difference. It's just been a long seven years. Well, how many, how many moments in

his career have we all collectively gone? Oh, it's happening right now. Yeah. Where it was like,

this guy, here we go. This guy could be a top 15 player and then you were just going to hurt that

20, 2025 playing game against the Lakers. It was like, that was it. That was the moment we were

already were just like, let's, let's finally pull this thing together. It just he had to leave the

game. They lose it. There was a point. Zion phase he had to one point early like first three years

of his career. He's good. He's like, wow, what are they, what are they, what are they, what are we

do? Right. It's like point, Zener. They tried them like every different version and he does well

at it. The problem is it's just only lasts for so long because he's injured or off the core

issues, which again are trickling into this season. There's just always something with him. And so

brings us to a central question, which is next season. The season after this one is fully non-guaranteed.

Finally, we have hit the end of this Zion extension. So my question to you guys is, is Zion a

pelican on July 15th, 2027, which is the guarantee day going into next season? What do you guys think?

I mean, the bigger, I mean, that's a great question. The other question is, should they have traded him

a, should another team have tried to trade for him b? And I don't know which one of those

questions is more interesting. Like if you're golden state over paying porzinga's 20 million a

year, who's already hurt, like, should you have, was he a dice roll, I guess, is the question?

For a team that's in the, in zombie land with, are we a lottery team? Not really. Are we a

playoff team? Not really. Is this the guy you should have rolled the dice with? Because I could have

been talked into it. The only way I'm hesitant is that Zion, like, doesn't know how to be a part of

somebody else's team. And it's something that's like, if you're that kind of force of nature,

every level of basketball he's ever played has understandably gravitated around him. You put

the ball in his hands, he knows what to do. You take it away from him. He's just kind of hanging out.

Like, he can kind of pass. He doesn't rebound. He doesn't guard anybody. I think that's hard.

No rebadding's a big piece. It's brutal. And it's what's made it so hard for the

Pelicans to move on with him still here. It's like, he's not physically reliable enough to be

an every night star. And he doesn't have the supplementary game to make anyone else that much better.

And so what do you do with a player like that? Well, on the Pelican side of it, it's interesting

because they have doubles of two problematic player types. It's like they have this guy who's not

a five who once, you know, you can play through him, you can kind of pass it, but with Queen and

Wasiah. And we said that when they draft and we're like, these two guys are kind of dissonant

together. And then you have Jordan Poole and fears, which we can get to here in a minute. But I

think when you said a second ago when you were talking about who he is as a player in his

trademark, I think we're at an interesting point where we were talking about a pod on a pod earlier

just this morning where we were talking about how we're in a market where previously,

guys who were previously considered like leading men have the cap rules have kind of changed

them to the point where, you know, there's not as many of them anymore. And Zion is an interesting

case because I wrote this down this past year, his see in 2324, he was at 30% usage, the following

year he was at 34. And this year he was at 25% usage. So, yeah. So I think we have reached a point

where you use the word trickle of me, you know, and I was going to jump in and say that culture

doesn't really trickle down from Zion in terms of like how you're building a team. It's like he's

kind of his own guy, he's compartmentalized, but he can still really fucking score like he's like an

ISO just like match up nightmare. He can really score the ball. But I think we've reached a point

where if you're going to trade for him, I think the idea of who he is is a lot more sober. It's like

not as optimistic of like, oh, this guy's like a franchise pillar. He's a different type of player.

I think that's a big part of it. We're, we're recording this when Trajan Langdon, his former GM,

is literally throwing him under the bus as an example of what he's dealing with with Jalen Duren.

And so if he has established anything in this league, he is the clear-cut guy you just do not want

to build around or you do not want to even deal with when it comes to a sticky situation with your

extension. That's one thing. And the other thing is the contract. He makes 42 million dollars

this season. And so who's taking a flyer one on someone who makes that much like the Mayan

Heat would have made sense before they went and got Yannis because maybe they just establish,

they bring what they have established with their culture to someone like him who's clearly

talented. But like who's doing that in the second apron era? Like who's even finding the

matching contracts because the Warriors, they really have Stefan and Jimmy Butler. You'd have to

trade one of them to even match that sort of salary. So it's an impossible task. So what I think

when he becomes non-guaranteed if he does let go, then I could see teams jump to the fray. But for

now, it's just like I think they're just stuck together. Is it crazy to think his ultimate destiny

is to be an awesome six man for a really good team where he just comes in and you run seven,

eight minutes. Makadu kind of per half. Yeah, I was thinking like when the Bulls got the former

Brian Williams, Bison Dele. And he was kind of overqualified to come up their bench, but he was

perfect and really had a big impact on one of those playoffs. And it's weird because Zion's in this,

he probably will get 30 to 35 million from somebody because people won't be able to resist.

But really he should be in the 15 to 20 million range as the super sub like kind of like

porzingis. I mean, that's porzingis is basically given us the salary structure for a guy like that.

Where it's like, man, if this guy plays all the time, it'll be awesome. And he can swing 50 games

a year for us. Maybe help us in the playoffs. But the absorbent. I think that's where Zion ends up.

The absorbent culture thing is really pivotal though there. What the Celtics had this great

structure where they could absorb the proportions of porzingis and be like, go on this given

night just happened to be in the finals. He was like, oh, this guy's like one of the best players

in the world, but we don't need him to be our like bedrock kind of guy. Let me ask you this question.

So let's say Zion becomes a free agent. Would you rather have Zion next year or Boogie Cousins coming

off the injury with the pelicans? Boogie Cousins is another good example of this though. He showed

wow. This guy's available now. Yeah. Yeah. With the Warriors six man. Six man, but definitely didn't really

put it together or really get much momentum from there. He was pretty much cooked once he got

to the Warriors. But there's the time there we could have been something more. I don't know. Like

Boogie had shown so much more. Well, the stage of the thing that the I didn't watch enough pelicans

last year to really have an opinion on this. But how much athleticism did Zion actually lose?

I was pulling some of the quit. I don't know if we're talking like G.O.P. I don't know what the

cause is, but he had to go. I was just, well, I was saying his like, that's the thing they

stopped playing through him, but he could still fucking like score like crazy. He was way too fast.

He felt like he gets to the his first step and his ability gets to the rim felt like it was still

there. But the high school stuff of him just jumping over. That's gone. But like I thought he was

really good as a small ball five last year. And so that's where it's like how do you leverage the

speed he does have? And that's where again, you're counteracting it with okay, but he can't defend

the rim. Oh, but he doesn't rebound for us. So like it's just so hard to pencil him in as someone

you rely on in a way that the bookie cousins thing makes sense because even if boogie had totally

framed out with the warriors, they would have been fine. And like, is Zion needs a situation like

that? But in order to have it, he would need the epiphany to realize that he's not this guy anymore.

Well, the fun part about this team is they have a lot of players I like. I thought Fairs was good

last year for young, you know, smaller guard rookie, which is really like bust your bust delicious

at that point. We just saw it with Dillon. It's really we Kyle and I were talking about this the

other day. We're texting about it like these guys that just are DOA when they come in the league.

These small guards, you immediately know they don't have it. But I think Fairs has it. I thought

he was good last year. And then, you know, Murphy, everybody loves her Jones. They have some good

bench guys. So you can kind of see it, but it's it feels to me like more of fantasy team than a

basketball team that makes sense. Are you a queen guy? I am, but not on a team with Zion. That makes

those two guys together makes zero sense. But I do think Queen something. Yeah. I defensively,

it's never going to be there for him. Maybe Fairs and Murray can't play together either. And so

I thought the before and after to John Jay Murray coming back was a real moment for the pelicans,

where a lot of things just kind of short up instantly having him available, even in limited form

is pretty good. So like I kind of understand wanting to see that through to some kind of

conclusion, but where does it take you? It just they're not going to be competitive enough in the

West. He's not going to be enough to lift up their younger players. They're just they just feel

stuck in so many ways. Really hamstrung by two trades. They shouldn't have made one was the Murray

trade, but he did get hurt. And then the McCollum pool trade is just one of one of the all-timers.

The exact trade you never want to make in this second apron era of trading and expiring,

who's the better player in the deal and taking somebody back who's the worst player in the deal and

has a longer contract like that's an insane trade. And getting to not get a first round pick

or anything. Nobody does that. McCollum's known around the league is like it just like I've

used that word again like he's just a can't fail like bedrock culture guy like the established.

And it's like you really really need that and it's I could imagine even though I don't understand

Joe Dumas in myriad ways, I can imagine why he would be a little contancurist about like moving

pieces because that's all we do is talk about like like just offloading their good players that

they have. And it's just like I could see you at some point where he's like screw you guys we're

not going to do it. But maybe you should do it. Maybe bring Ninja Mom mostly and handing him this

mess is not the way to fix it. Well the scuttle button that there's two things than the league

scuttle but when people gossip about these different teams. One is that that trade weavers involved

in this team and he's a huge DMV guy and always gravitates toward DMV guys which is how you end up

with Queen, Hey, you know, pool all this stuff. The other one is that the culture on this team

was a classic people talking about oh god those guys they hate each other you never know it's true

or not true. But oh my god you want to talk about bad chemistry last year the Pelicans and just a

lot of whispers and I'm always when I hear this stuff out you know you take it with a grain of salt

but when you keep hearing it it's usually not a good sign. Yeah I remember the good old days when

it was Ryan Anderson who we were talking about wasn't a good locker room guy and so 10 years later

here we are. Right man through them under the bus now it's just half the players on this roster now

it's the way everyone looks at Jordan pool. Yeah. Did we take inventory of Queen or do you want to

get to that or just because they're rookies I think this is a gigantic like a lot is riding on what

for your shows this year naturally. Sure. It's kind of okay but Queen man like for the frustrations

that we talk about and I wrote about this in the draft guy that a couple years ago we were talking

about Queen is just like dude like his attention to detail and technique like he has got to fix it

like I was I was just watching him come like he had like Zion close out syndrome where he would like

run he's not as super he has great hands he has good feet but he's not super fast he doesn't jump

super high and if he doesn't pay he has to pay attention to technique like I was watching him close

out on guys and he would just be standing straight up and like they'd just be like okay like I

watched a few clips of Josh Giddy just blowing by him and just not not paying attention on like the

glass and things like that like he's so good to put that on his real though. I'm just saying like

Queen just has so many like technical things that he has to shore up if he's gonna end up being

a productive long-term player in the NBA because he just doesn't have that margin for air. He's odd how

they've ended up with two guys who are basically small ball centers as like one that they have to

build around. I think this is like why Herb Jones matters so much to this team because he's the

only one who wants to do the shit and they list him as their starting center which before I was

like oh this is a real funny math sort of thing they're just trying to give him a nod because

actually Zion or these other guys are the actual centers but he actually has to play in guard a

lot of bigger players because these guys cannot do it. I've got to come on. I heard Andy Daly one

time the the pelicans are like mad TV. I heard Andy Daly tell a story one time where he said he you

know Andy Daly the comedian really the classic character guy he said that that show was hard

to be on because everybody wanted to have catch phrases and characters and bits and he said

nobody wanted to be the straight guy he said so he just did that and he got in like every sketch.

To me that's the pelicans that's my comp Andy Daly to Herb Jones. This is why Deandra Jordan

does a job like he's the one straight guy who's like you know what my job here is to get Dary queen

out for a workout at 5 a.m. and that's literally it like I am a functionally an assistant coach but

this team needs guidance and channeling and you're so right about Queen's habits like he's just such

a a spacey on court player in a way where you would love to believe in him but he's more fun

than he is good right now. It's funny speaking of weird analogies they have two guys in this team

that remind me of like if you ever had an apartment or like I remember about a futon

this 30 years ago for my apartment in Charlestown and it seemed like a great idea and we got it

and didn't really have the money to then be like oh this was a mistake got to make this futon work

and it just was never comfortable and you just kind of have to sit in and every day and go

all right I guess this is the decision we've made doesn't really fit in this room it's a little too

small but what else are we gonna do and they queen and Zion are both like that it's like well

don't ask about that. Well Zion he's here I but these are guys you have to customize your entire

offense and your identity around but they're not going to be winning players in that so what do you

do. All right new content idea as we're iterating. Not futon guys we get build we have this tape now

yeah we cut it off at Bill saying so I bought a futon then we bring Van Lathen in here and he has

to guess where you're going with the analogy and what here it was. It's applying to. There was a

big futon run in the 90s I don't know if it's still going. Oh yeah the markets were lost. It's the

futon's right. Facebook Marketplaces all futons. You have guys sleeping over all the time after

nights out you need to put them somewhere. That's the thing. It was like oh he's coming in my buddy

bitch is coming in he'll sleep on the futon but it was always a better concept in the store

and I think Queen is like that to me. Queen's like great concept in the store but shit now we

got to play 82 games with them. That's great and I can't like him. Yeah he does a lot of

yeah I'm not sure he's watching him brilliant. Yeah if he's aged then he had that match begin to

yokets for people who are like Jesus like he's coming it's just he's got to just be more consistent.

You have the second your guy fears I like him I'm curious where he fits in not only in the

we get large but also on this team is he just relegated to the six minerals along as the

jaunte is going to be there. I think the jaunte is too good to give it up for now. I think honestly

weirdly enough with fears the thing I'm most optimistic about is he has that weird little like

rock back almost like one footed mid range jumper that's like okay as far as like change of pace

waste keep defenses off balance like he has just enough of those weapons where I'm like kind of

buying into it but that's the kind of thing where you need to give him more of an opportunity to

explore and who's the kind of play with his pace. Who have we seen that would with his type of

body and game that succeeded. That's the tough part is the like the size because it's almost like

you know like Gordon Hayward had that kind of weird rock back jumper too it's like bigger even

jacks and like bigger wings tend to do it. But for him it's almost a way to escape from the defense

more than it is to manipulate if that makes sense. I really liked him. I also really liked how

competitive he was. Yeah but that was the big takeaway like he you know these rookie guards come in

sometimes like he'd eat up he was coming in like oh cool I get to play sg8 tonight. It's coming

up with this guy. He wanted to fight everyone. Yeah his speed and body control and he like I think

he can he can map the floor. I know that's a nerdy thing that people's eyes glaze over but he

seems like he's pretty aware of spatially like where his teammates are and makes creative passes.

He's like a creative ball handler. Really weird this team. This team I wrote it down they were

see 27th and three pointers made 25th and attempted. They were first in points in the paint. So

this is just a big battering ram of a team that has just kind of roll confusion that you know with

everybody healthy and everything it just doesn't seem like it's going to get any simpler. You know

it's weird about this team and I'm sure you did this when you did 26th to 30 but there's just four

west teams that aren't going to be good. And in the old days you always knew what that meant and I

don't know what that means now in the tanking doesn't matter anymore era and you don't actually

want to be in the last three era. So like the the pelicans were 10 10 and 20 in their last 30.

Yeah. To end this season and I wonder is that is that going to foreshadow what happens with some

of these bad teams where it's like well why do we have to tank what are we tanking for let's try

to win tonight. We talked about this in the previous episode of team suppressing their win totals

in order to tank like the net some of these Pacers. They could have been a little bit better right.

I think the pelicans I docked them for the exact same reasons if we're saying that institutional

like know how an organizations matter the pelicans actually take a step back because they have

the worst organization and probably modern sports. And so the anti jazz in that way like the jazz

have like 20 back paid wins over the last couple seasons for exactly this reason but you're right

the pelicans. Well home courts tough they always have the worst training medical in the league.

They never ever roster they make sense and they never have a good front office. Well the good

you see those are all obstacles. They did change their medical and training staff. Finally. So

better late than never. Yeah. Hopefully it makes a difference. Zion is you're going to be shocked to

hear this in the best shape of his life. We'll see if that makes a difference. He did look good.

Well sure. He showed up to the podium and he was felt but he also said I'm not where I want to be.

Yeah. I'm just not where I need to be where I want to be. How do you interpret that?

He said he wasn't where he wanted to be twice.

He's usually too many times. He's literally too graphically.

Is that the Eric Blitz? So I don't want to be here anymore.

Well. Like cryptic message out into the void.

The crazy thing is I think if it was anybody else we would have read into it like what

Machiavellian thing is he playing here where he wants to get to another I think he just realized

that his career is just completely a catastrophe. Completely. Which is a sadder outcome I would say

overall. And again I think yet another reason why whether it's trade or ending up like cutting

him out right with the non-guarante at the end of the year like I think everyone just has to

move on. Seven years is too much time. We've had three Spider-Man movies since Zion Williamson

was drafted. That's too many. Old Town Road was the number one song when Zion Williamson was

drafted. We can't be doing this again in one more year. It can't happen.

But he wasn't a bust but he wasn't a success. No. That's a really weird territory to be in.

In a lot of play you're almost like in like basketball reference purgatory.

People go there and like wow look at his per 36 in 2022. It's incredible.

You know like 50 years from now he'll probably be appreciated more. But too bad.

I don't know why a team that doesn't have anything going from wouldn't take the pull.

Like what are the nets doing? Is there any team with cap space that could just spend it?

What are the nets doing? It's just like a question.

Oh you missed that one. We spent half an hour trying to figure it out.

Yeah. Not quite sure. Well I will say as a Celtic fan,

fed by this pelicans team for a while because of the pool expiring.

Sure. Herb Jones.

Many future sales. A lot of things from my knowledge.

Paul George is there some sort of Paul George you get the pool expiring but you really get

herb Jones you give a pick like could that be the destiny for the Celts? I have no idea.

They seem to love Paul George.

You see how that goes?

Yeah.

A lot of teams have said that.

I'll say Paul George a lot.

I'm on that.

Celtic.

Yeah.

The medical staff.

We'll see how it works out.

We'll see how it works out.

We'll catch a chute guys in the league.

Paul George is good.

You're stretched.

Yeah. Just here to be on Tatum's team.

Very clear about it.

You should get to the basket.

Four years ago.

Do you have to give like this ad was paid for disclaimer when you start talking about

Paul George?

Like do you have to

This and the people where I've been open about how long it took me to talk about

something the trade but it's been pretty easy lately.

Right.

Yeah.

Here from your organization they did just really like having a maraud.

There we go.

Happy free.

Switch on D.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Looking good.

Who's next?

Memphis.

Memphis.

Oh, I'll stay for Memphis then I go.

Let's do it.

Number 24.

The Memphis Grizzlies.

Who have so many guys.

They have so many guys that as we're recording this they might have already had to cut one or two of them.

They're about three to four deep at virtually every position.

And so I want to say that there's something workable here.

They're the type of team that I could see them

exceeding their overrunder if only because there's just so much to work with if they get injured or whatnot.

There's just guys.

Yeah.

Ready for them.

Having said that.

I don't know if like this is the year for them to make a play and run but

I like that they're half step away from the John Merrant,

Jaren Jackson era.

It's put them in such a good position so quickly.

I think there's just too many kind of med teams in the West where if there were a little clearer runway

I would buy everything about like oh they could over perform.

Oh, they could maybe make the play in.

But this is a weirdly crowded space as we've been talking about like the top of the West is set.

The middle tiers of the Western conference are so weird,

so like all lacking in their own way.

And the Grizzlies are among the least of them.

But also as you say stack to the point that I'm really worried that some of these guys

who I really like just aren't going to play at all.

And that's going to be the reality of the regular season.

Who are the guys you really like that might not play at all?

Like I think some of the guys who had a chance last year and finally got finally started showing

something Taylor Hendrix was like a cast off from the jazz and was nice.

Oh Max Prosper started putting it together.

Had a nice run for them but it's like those guys aren't going to play.

If Zach Edie is here and healthy.

If I say a steward is here and playing like there's just not going to be enough room for them.

I have a feeling I texted Zach and I was mad at him because he beat me to this.

I'm buying the Grizzlies.

I mean this is a good thing.

But what does that mean?

I could see him winning 35-40 games.

Is that crazy?

I mean I think that's possible.

We're talking about like going from chaos to order.

I think that Boozler, I'm a broken record about this at this point.

I just think that's who he is.

He's going to come in.

He doesn't have to come in and be like a crazy high production guy.

He's just going to establish an orbit and a sanity to the way that they play.

I think that we've seen guys that you were talking about like getting lost in the shuffle.

I think Jalen Wells and Gigi Jackson just like who was a prospect that wanted to do

had a good rookie year based on where he was taken.

Like he suffered I think from some of the chaos of the transition of heiras.

I think that once they're like order has kind of locked into place.

I think that's going to be good for him.

Jalen Wells, I go saying Kim Spencer was one of the best.

He's going to benefit a ton from this.

I wrote this down.

He shot, let's see.

In Picking Roll, he was 41.5% spot up 45 and transition.

He's spot 45, shot 45% off of screens.

He was 52.5% from three.

The student is lethal from three.

I think that catching shoots, he's going to benefit and throw on top if they're really big.

They're just going to pulverize people.

So Dr. Coward's going to benefit.

I just see a net positive with this team where I think they're going to be better than people.

I just cue you talking and I see the version of myself.

I'm trying to check.

You're the devil on my shoulder being like,

pick the grizzlies to win 40 games.

I'm like, I just can't, I can't do that.

I think they're going to be annoying a shit.

That's what I'm saying.

You know why that's not true?

You just said?

What's that?

Because I am the devil on your shoulder.

I fucking love this team.

I'm all in.

I'm all in on one team.

I'll just spoil when I do the overrunners with House and Zach.

I love this team.

I think they're going to be good.

I really think as a good young team,

I think if Edie stays healthy and Jerome stays healthy,

I think this could be like a 38 to 40 win team.

But they have an identity.

The players make sense to me.

Boozers going to come in right away and be like a 19 and 10,

19 and 9, 20 and 10 night after night.

I love coward last year.

I like their young guys.

But even just getting steward for free is fucking nuts.

That guy was a really good bench player on a 60 win team.

He's a falter on his punches, but he's.

Yeah.

But if they get, I don't know what's realistic for Edie.

And I don't know if he can stay in the court.

But if they can get an actual Zach Edie season,

I think this team, so I was looking at the the Fandall,

the conference outs, right?

And you go, you could just go from the bottom up of who they think the worst teams are,

which is basically Sacramento, Clippers, Grizzlies,

Pelkins, Dallas and Utah.

I think they're going to be the best of those six.

I have them over Utah on my head.

That's the one that raised my eyebrow.

I feel like Utah's pretty like Utah's obviously got talent.

Higher end talent, I would say, versus the depth of the Grizzlies.

No defense.

And then I like, and honestly, I like both Utah and Memphis more than Phoenix.

Yes.

And I don't think Phoenix, I think Phoenix is going to be a mess.

But I thought that last year.

But I think Memphis makes sense to me when I look at it.

We'll see with the coach.

But I think the city's going to really respond to it.

Chris Vernon, who I think is always a good barometer.

And we need to talk to him about this stuff.

Like, it couldn't be more bullish.

And usually he's a little like me with the seltz.

Like pretty realistic.

I'll be like, I don't know.

But he's like, we have something with this group that we have.

Sneaky thing too is we were talking about somebody correcting me.

It's hypertrophy, not atrophy.

When do you work a muscle to failure?

Last year.

I would clear that up.

Yeah, yeah, thank you for that.

No, coward last year in the chaos and the absence of like, you know,

Miranda, not they were it was a disaster.

He got pushed into playing more point guard than he had ever played in his life, basically.

So he got that experience in year one.

And he's a hyper.

We always talk about like, you know, testing guys to failure and like,

in your confidence, with stand that like,

cowards, one of those dudes that I think is going to come away from that experience.

Learning a lot.

And I think that this year his role is going to be a whole lot different.

And I think he and Boos are together as like, they can screen for each other.

It can go either direction.

And I just think they're going to be a really fun duo.

So I just think that he's going to come away from last season being like a more well-rounded player.

And you could tell he wants to get, but he like played all of summer league.

Coward.

And it was just like, why?

That was like, he's got a him and Murray Boyle same thing.

Like those guys clearly are going to go up a level in the second year.

So I think Edie, Injaro, or the guys that like will be the kind of

the bilitating forces for everybody else there.

Stabilitating.

Well, I mean, stability, I like that.

We're innovating.

We're just trying things here.

Edie on track for the open, Tijeroam, where does he stand in terms of like the

pageant of nerd crushes?

Well, we're going to get he's getting a drive the car this year,

because they don't, they're point cards.

It's basically just him and Pippin, right?

I mean, Pippin's pretty great though.

Yeah, but it seems like Tijeroam starting.

I think Tijeroam will start.

You got a lot of guys who could do some ball handling,

powered and boozer and some of the other big guys,

but like he's the only one who's going to be operating the pick and rolls.

And so if you look at like his 15 games last year, which is all he played,

unfortunately, they happened all toward the end of last season.

They're like incredible.

Oh, yeah.

It's like 26 and 3 into like the per 36 minutes or like he's basically

will combined with magic on the calves.

And what's incredible in the calves?

You know, then just died in the playoffs that one year and it kind of threw

everyone off the set.

That's the thing is like, and so he's really hard to place

as far as how people feel about him because the premise of Tijeroam is,

what if a small guard just hit every tough shot he ever took?

Right.

Right.

When it goes, it fucking goes.

And when it dries up, it's like he has absolutely nothing to offer you anymore.

You got overburdened in those playoffs though.

Completely.

Yeah.

Correctly though.

I think there was a sweet spot here.

Like this is the right kind of team for him, right?

Like a deeper team, good supporting cast, good support system in terms of a backup

point guard behind him who's like similarly skilled in certain ways.

I think he's going to have a lot of cover with the Grizzly.

We didn't mention one guy that I think is important.

And this happens every year in the NBA and he's the guy this year.

The guy who's been expensive for a couple years.

Oh, is this Jeremy Grant's music?

Oh, we totally didn't even mention him.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

It's like he's been expensive.

You write him off.

And it's that way too much money.

He's in trade rumors for three years.

Somebody ends up with him.

He's still like a rotation NBA guy who's been around the way.

I think he averaged like 17 or 18 a game last year.

And he's just like, that's 30 minutes a game.

It's like, I remember Harrison Barnes got to this point at one point

Tobias famously in Detroit.

It's like, oh, and then they have Tobias Harris.

It's like, yeah, Tobias Harris isn't bad at basketball.

And he's going to play and you reframe who he is.

Yeah.

So if you had him for nine million a year,

you'd be like, oh, and they have Jeremy Grant.

But at 36, it seems like an amatrust, but he's not.

He's going to play real minutes for them.

The problem with Grant is he started his career at one spot.

He was actually just like the bouncy center of like the process.

Sixers.

Yeah.

Became the ultimate three and D guy thought that that was just going to be his role

for the rest of his career.

And now has become basically a six man shot maker.

Like his role with the Blazers toward the end there was just the two.

Like he really didn't rebound a ton.

No.

The defense kind of went and came in and went.

Didn't know it seemed happy.

Yeah.

Just what like got left on a team that was going more into the tank.

And so like he's a great vet.

I think he is a good score.

But it's so odd to rationalize like what role is he?

Because if he just plays the role that he was destined to this three and D guy

where he was with Denver like he'd still be pretty good at it.

Because he has the dimensions and he's very smart on the core.

Just think he's going to probably be the six.

Well, you know the answer because you live there.

How many points of game do you think he averaged last year?

It was quite a bit.

I mean in front of me.

So you got an answer.

18.

Yeah, it was 18.9.

He was going to go back.

He averaged 22 in the 21st season 19.

20.21.

Like they basically got him for free.

And that's like, I don't know.

I like this team.

I think, but it's you know,

Edie could get her drum gets her the team falls apart.

It's very conceivable.

Well, I think again, he has a place in this team where there's so much going on.

He doesn't have to be the like leader of the offense in the way that the

pistons one time asked him to be or even the like Lynch Pind defender.

He was for the nuggets.

It's like he gets to just be a guy.

Yeah.

And as a guy Jeremy Grange is very good.

As the guy or a critical part of your team, I think he leaves you a little bit wanting.

I have a Kyle question.

Is Booser clearly the rookie of the year pick?

Oh God.

Or would you or is there somebody else you think's going to have better stats and a better season than him?

You can kind of see Peter someone be maybe the other one.

You can see down the road how this could play out as you're going to get like a production.

I could see this turning into and it not that everything doesn't already do this,

but turning into an analytics conversation where the wind.

I think he's going to drive winning in a not production heavy way.

That's like really easy to point to where you might.

Of course, DeBonza is going to be, you know, we're going to talk about it.

He's in a really weird position where if they didn't

hadn't made the moves they made, I would have been like, yeah, DeBonza is going to average 20 something.

And yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I would pick him because Caleb would be the other one.

Because I'm not allowed to bet on this, but I'm fando Boosers 3-1.

Caleb's plus 3-30 and Peter since plus 3-50 and DeBonza's 4-1 is the fourth best odds,

which I was like really surprised by because it felt like he was another one.

He's going to come in right away and be 17 and 18 and seven, whatever.

Yeah.

Well, there's like $212 million for trade young standing between him and that.

Yeah, that's going to, that's going to be awesome.

Caleb would be the wild card bet where Caleb could just come in and

he might just be, he might own social media like Blake's first clipper year.

Oh, God.

Remember, he just like as Twitter videos were kind of happening and Blake just kind of was there

for three straight months.

I feel like that might happen with him.

Was it, was it Galenari that he dunked on like six times in one game or in his rookie year?

I think it was Galenari.

I think it was Galenari.

It was a Mazgaugh.

There was a couple of games.

We're going to get one of those games from Caleb.

That was the most fun I've ever had going to non-South of games.

The Blake's first year when he just all he wanted to do was dunk on anybody.

And they would just put the ball like near the shot clock to see if he could get it in.

It was just, he had ups like there's been nobody like him.

I remember driving out to LA during that time to move here for

the first time.

Yeah.

And there would just be like kind of a buzz.

This was before Twitter or anything like that.

Yeah.

You would just like want to check in and know what he was doing.

And one behold, he would have dunked on someone that night that you missed it and just felt like

you missed the biggest thing in the year.

I thought you were going to see the streets where buzzed about like Alfa Rukumino.

Like the chief, the baby clippers are really putting it together.

Fun times.

What's Boozers role in your one?

Like what do you want to see from him?

35 minutes again.

He's going to be there hub.

I think when you were talking about Grant, I would say,

I think what's going to benefit Grant is that you're going to,

you're initial part of your act.

I don't know that they're going to be super picking roll roll heavy.

That's why I don't know that that's good.

That'll be a wrinkle of what they do.

I don't think 20s or low ones to do that.

I don't think their guards are going to be super picking roll heavy or dependent on

that way.

I think you're going to play through Boozers who can run some picking roll himself.

He can play some handoff stuff and then attack one on one matchups.

And then that's the first part of the clock.

I think for them, that's going to be their method.

And then when you get into the late part of the clockwork,

we didn't get a great shot.

That's where you haven't a Jeremy Grant.

I think it's going to be valuable.

But I'm not going to bet against him being the central hub that drives

winning until I'm not going to bet against that until I see it.

I think he's going to do it because he's just got such a great foundation.

I think he can get a lot better too.

I was writing down just like with all these players,

who are the combinations I'm most excited to see together?

And they all have camp Boozers in them.

It's just him, the way he plays off of Zach Edie, I'm fascinated to see,

as they have Stuart, they could be an awesome big man combination.

I think what he could bring out instead of your coward in terms of making his life easier as a

creator. I mean, the shooting from camp spends,

like all of these guys make sense with Camp Boozers,

which is not what you would think of basically any other rookie to come in the league.

That's another thing I like about this team is they have different looks,

which is pretty rare for a bad team.

Because ultimately, I think crunch time, they probably have Stuart with coward,

with Boozers, with Grant in probably Jerome,

which is a five-band unit with size and like some real defensive things.

And the rim protection numbers on Stuart are great when he actually plays.

But then they also have this Edie Boozer lineup where it's like,

we're just getting rebounds and we're overpowering you and we're going to be around the rim,

that I think a lot of teams are going to have trouble with.

So I do like that they insulated him with so many bigs and they decided that we are going to be

huge because they have Edie, you have Beefstoo, you have Quentin Post,

I don't think we mentioned Boozer.

That was a fun contract.

I like how they structured that.

They really kind of stuck it to gold state.

Well, restricted for agency.

Yeah, it was like the rare actual like put some thought into the RFA.

Got Kareem Lopez.

There's just like so many, actually there's just list guys for 20 minutes on this team.

Is it crazy to wonder if this team can make the playoffs as soon as next year?

I don't think it's crazy at all.

I really don't.

I really don't.

We're too high on it.

It's not even hot.

We're so organizationally hot on them.

It's crazy to think because the players are playing because I think they could be a

play in this year.

Yeah, I do think so.

We were talking about how I was saying that the Kings like had so much chaos with Russ.

Just having a road map is the hardest thing to do in the NBA is to be like, okay,

we have this thing that we know is this amount of efficiency every time we come down the floor.

And I feel like the Grizzlies, I'll be surprised if they don't.

I mean, we're all kind of expecting it at this point where it's not even a hot take.

But I just think that that's why I think they're going to be ahead of us.

No, but because I think this is an important combo though because they're over under right now is

50.

Is it 50?

I'm sorry, 30.

I'd take the old one.

It's like 29.5 30 range.

I can't see Kim Boosir being on a bad team.

Oh, I just can't see that.

We have him 11th in the West in these rankings.

Just outside the plan.

Mavericks are right above them.

All right, so question.

Why do you like Phoenix more than this team?

I have my head of a use because they approved it last year that they'll play hard at the very least.

What do we like about Phoenix?

Like, they're already like decimated at center.

They're going to have to play the duke to ton.

They have Miles Bridges being just randomly thrown into this team.

They lost shooting.

I don't know what to expect from them.

They have Jalen Green for the full year.

Yeah, trying to play for basically like a bigger.

I don't know.

I have more questions about them than them.

I think the formula is just simpler where they have Devin Booker who's like

worlds better than anyone that's currently on this grizzly's roster in terms of where they're

on today.

And they had a top 10 defense last year, which that may or may not be the case.

I think we should definitely get into that.

But who are the grizzlies?

I write, if they're going to make a run at the play in the season,

if they're going to be a really good team pretty much out of the gate,

are they where are they above average?

Like, do you see them being a functional offense?

Do you see them being a hard opponent?

I think they're going to be really, really physical.

Yeah.

In a way that is hard for teams to deal with during a six weeks, six months season.

Yeah.

I think they're like, oh shit, we're playing these guys.

This is going to suck.

You get to bludgeon people, yeah?

Yeah.

Elbows, clotheslines, bang, jumping in your back.

You just know it's going to be like a tough night.

Because they even want to be like, they don't have enough shooting to complement the size.

These guys were not even talking about Cedric Howard,

Jalen Wells.

Like, they have these guys in place to play those sorts of roles.

They didn't even talk about Wells, really.

Like before he got hurt.

Yeah.

Just looking like he was a possible someday Aldi guy.

I don't know.

I like this.

He's had great moments, but also some kind of low points for Jalen Wells.

I think I'm like, I was really hoping his career would take off.

I think I'm a little slightly more pessimistic on Cedric Howard than y'all might be.

Just in the sense that he's already way ahead of the age curve.

I think there is, like, let's just get into the biomechanics.

Let's break it the fuck down.

There's a stiffness to the way he moves and plays.

Oh fuck you.

I'm sorry.

That makes me wonder, okay, is he ever going to be a primary offensive option?

Yeah.

Absolutely.

He's got that kind of lumber.

He's got that lumbering length.

Like he has the coat rack in the back.

Kind of like, co-ye.

You turn your nose up at stiffness,

but the first word out of your mouth is lumbering?

No, he has a coat rack.

It's a weird thing where if you watched co-ye,

co-ye has the similar kind of a thing.

This is the problem.

Like, co-ye is poisoned.

Everyone's brains into thinking that anyone can be co-ye.

He's going to be co-ye.

Co-ye is like a one of three player and NBA history

to perform that way with that body type and that movement type.

I'm just saying if you went and you watched the clips of Cedric move,

like he gets low with his dribble,

like I just think he has a lot of limb for his body type.

I think he gets the...

I have real estate in our Patrick Williams Island.

I would like to sell this.

I like him.

It just doesn't feel like he's filled out even at this stage of his career

and he just has such an odd trajectory.

I can't think of another guy like him where...

That's it.

He starts from such low levels and then when he hits,

like he gets injured,

then doesn't even get to go play for Duke.

Like, he literally hasn't played high level college ball

and he just immediately graduated to the NBA.

That's the crazy thing.

Is he nearly played with Booz or last year?

Yeah.

I've got a little chill.

Can Booz or 20 plus points a game this year?

Plus 420.

They picked the right number.

It's intriguing.

But he'll be around 17 to 22 every game.

He's just one of those guys.

I think the question with him is,

are we positive he's going to play like 35 minutes?

Or is he going to be in that like 28 minutes a night range just because of the...

I don't think that dude's ever not played...

Most of a game in his life, right?

Like since sixth grade.

Yeah.

He's been...

I just think that's what he's used to.

They're going to be...

I'll pro.

Kobe Textin' Cowder in the air with Mahoney on it.

Yeah, Mahoney.

Cedric Cowder.

Another Memphis win.

27.

Every time Cedric Cowder puts up 30, I'll be thrilled to...

The co-wracked.

The co-wracked himself.

I think Cedric Cowder did it again.

Triple double.

To clarify, I think Cedric Cowder is a guy.

I just don't know that he's like a starring piece of this team.

One other piece that we didn't mention

this team if they actually turn out to be pretty good

in point cards, the deepest position in the league for available guys.

Like would they get a little frisky?

Because they have some picks.

Yeah.

Right.

Could they be like, oh, we'll take that guy.

He's available or jumping in on somebody.

They have a lot to work with now.

And in fact, they might be the model for some of these other distress teams

in terms of what they got for Jeren Jackson Jr.

What they got for Desmond Bain.

They have something to work with here between all of this talent we've been talking about

and also all those picks that came in the door.

They can they really have a run away to make something of this.

And they went, I think three for 27 and the last 30

and basically the poster boys for why we're going to have this whole new system in place.

Like they don't get enough credit.

They traded, they were basically a playoff team.

Trade Jackson, trade Bain, tank, all of last season.

It works out to get Boozler.

And now they're in a great spot and it was all worth it.

And that's like the thing that Adam Silver is like,

I don't want this happening anymore.

They wanted Boozler too.

I was from the Memphis people I talked to.

Like they were giddy that it that it fell the way that it did.

Yeah, because he's an adult whose dad was a player

who isn't going to be like, I don't know, Memphis is too small.

Like he's like, I'm in.

Grit and grind. Let's go.

The Marcus Hall vibes are definitely there.

He has that temperament.

He will have that effect.

Have we talked sufficiently around your existential question?

We literally named every guy in the roster.

We did.

But we never even said what the question was.

It was who's the breakout guy.

We talked about that in 20 different ways.

Indeed. I wanted to make sure you were satisfied with our performance.

Just think how annoying this team is going to be in like second chance off.

Yeah.

You think about the length and fluidity and mobility

and athleticism of Cedric Coward flying in.

In flying Boozler and he they're just going to be annoying.

Also really like Pippin.

And he's one of those guys where you're like,

why does this guy play more?

I watch basketball all the time.

Yeah.

Why isn't this guy play more than 15-20?

He's just hurt.

Crafty has got hurt a bit.

I think that's the question with so many of these guys.

Is just will some of the depth resolve itself

if Zach Yeezy doesn't stay healthy?

If Isaiah Stewart doesn't stay healthy?

If Scotty Pippin doesn't, there's just so many of those

ifs kind of stacked on top of each other

that there might just be a natural pecking order

that develops based on who's healthy.

Do you got 20 minutes on Walter Clayton Jr.

before we go here?

A genuinely yes.

Is Edy at least on first team on B.A.

if he can stay healthy?

You see the center?

I would still take Donovan Klinging over him.

I think I think Lungen's way better than him.

Or is it Kessler?

Don't talk to Laker fans about Kessler's durability.

He played five games last year.

Don't bring that up.

I know he's a three-joke about Zach Yeezy,

but like he changes games.

Like he said before and he changes things.

I'm not joking.

He's literally when he plays, he's imposing and effective.

Completely imposed.

I think the combination.

He's never there.

He's never there.

But cleared for the start of the season,

they have said from his ankle surgery in March.

Hopefully that holds.

The combination of him being such an imposing force

and boozer being so savvy,

working as the hub of the offense,

helping to connect dot,

just like helping read the floor.

That's a really enticing combination.

He doesn't.

Edy does not pass the Bill Simmons

watching somebody run in person,

feeling good about a test.

AK the Greg Oden Corollary.

He's a trademark.

It's tough.

It's proprietary.

When you see Big Men,

I really pay particular attention

in watching them just not sprint up and down on a fast break,

but just how they run during the course of a game.

Like after free throws.

He's one of those that just feels like a lot of weight.

A lot of weight.

But once he gets there,

what do you think he makes me nervous?

He makes me nervous.

He's a dick in the championship game against Yukon.

He was a dick.

Never forgave him for it.

Yeah, he was just like talking shit and then they won.

Of course, of course you would latch on to that.

There it is.

There's the truth of the matter.

All right.

That's it.

That's it.

I'm going to leave.

Okay.

Well, who's next?

Thank you.

The Dallas Mavericks at 23.

You're tempted to let me know.

I can see.

Yeah, I think I'll say 10 minutes.

You're right.

Okay.

I'll take a glove.

The maps quick break.

And then we'll see if I can make it through here.

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All right, we're back.

Bill has left us.

Great to see him,

but we're moving on in the rankings

because we have so many of these teams

to get through.

We're only at number 23,

and that team is the Dallas Mavericks.

Who, as we're recording this,

are just growing by the day

because they had media day the other day.

Derek Lively hasn't played him forever.

Apparently still grew two inches.

Cooper Flag says he's 6-10 now.

I'll be honest, don't believe them.

I think if it was like one guy,

I'd be like, oh, okay.

Like, he was young.

Groatsburg's happened at

indeterminate amounts of time.

Sure.

The fact that multiple guys

are just like growing like weeds

unless they're like giving them something,

like they're drinking their GLP's or whatever,

I think they're fine.

I think they're probably like extension surgery.

Yeah, it could be.

Go to Turkey a little bit.

No, I think doing that in Turkey,

I think they're doing a lot of stuff in Turkey.

I believe that.

So do you think it's,

is it a competitive thing?

It's like one guy mentions

that they grew up this summer,

and everyone's else is like,

Max Christie, I also grew this summer, you know?

It's sucking it up.

I mean, who's the all time,

I mean, Tatum, they always talked about

grew once he was in the league.

I was trying to think of who's like the all-time

like the person who did grow

because you don't really,

it doesn't seem like there's ever

like real changeable.

KD, I think did grow.

See, KD went about it the right way,

which is you clock in at the start of your career.

You just artificially say you're six nine,

and then every time someone asks you

about your height, you'd be real,

like hazy about it.

Well, I'm very sensitive to the subject specifically,

because of the dating apps.

Do you not very tall or what?

I'm six feet on the dot.

You hear me?

15 ladies listening to a group chat last night?

Ha ha.

Six feet.

Okay.

I will measure it right now.

You pull out a tape measure.

Don't even try me.

That's content.

Um, no, I wrote a news story

because Anthony Davis went on the in-house

New Orleans Pelicans podcast.

I was like, they told me I grew.

I grew and then they listed them at another height.

And then he slowly walked it back over time.

He actually lost height as his career

went on from that point forward.

I think it's oftentimes a psychological thing

to convince players to play farther

down the positional spectrum.

Oh.

And so perhaps this is a sign like,

maybe Cooper Flag might be playing a little bit more powerful.

I don't know.

Wow.

See, I usually think about it the other way,

which is guys who don't want to play center

are like, yeah, I'm six, 10.

Not actually seven, but, you know,

I don't want to be putting that box

that I would rather not attend.

But you're right.

I like that kind of Machiavellian coaching strategy

of let's just tell this guy he's six, nine now

and see what happens.

There's a lot more 40 chess

based in New Orleans perspective of the league

than I would have expected.

I like, I just know that like following the drafts,

you're just, there's a measurement mafia

that like people are just obsessed with.

I think they even go to photos and like see if people, you know,

it's just kind of, this kind of thing is just famously

full of like human error.

Like, I mean, from person to person,

combine measurements or this or that, they're just off.

So I could see it just being as simple as that.

It's like the person who measured just didn't do a good job.

And in-house combine measurement stuff

is notoriously flawed.

So I think it could just be that honestly at the end of the day.

So what are we talking about again?

I don't know.

Well, I think we're talking about how tall guys are.

Do the extra three to four inches change your opinion

of the Dallas Mavericks?

No, I don't think they do.

Derek Lively still not being available.

Disappointing?

Three to four inches doesn't change your opinion, Ram.

All right, stop.

We're trying to do a podcast here.

I know.

What do you think I'm trying to do?

There are people listening to this, you know?

And they just leaned in.

There are children out there for some God

forsaken reason listening to this podcast.

All these people turned on the pod to listen to Bill.

And here we are talking about inches.

I mean, as soon as you leave the room, the two of you.

But already getting injured, it's not just

lively, although that's the most concerning one.

A couple guys who are not participating in training camp

as we're recording this, like we've more as Johnson was out,

Santiago Dama out.

Just a lot of the same stuff with the Mavs.

I think overall the question is considering

they don't have their picks for the next couple of years here,

and they have every incentive to be good.

Do we see them taking a little bit of a leap year

or two of Cooper?

I know you've been very looking forward to what

he could do in year two.

Do you see them making ground with Kyrie and everyone back?

I mean, having Kyrie back, I mean, just having sanity

in order has kind of been a recurring theme of this.

And that's the thing that digs you out of the basement.

So naturally, we would be talking a lot about it

at the bottom of the lead.

But we mentioned this the other day on our pod where

I was saying my kind of take for the Mavs

is that I think we could see an all-star or like very

close fringe all-star season from Cooper Flagg,

just because I think he's going to be moved back

into a role that is more comfortable for him.

Last year, that team just lacked half-court creation

in the most obvious glaring way possible.

They were awesome when those athletes got out and ran

and they could run, jump, and dunk with the best of them.

But having Kyrie back, now whether or not

Kyrie's like auditioning, he seems content in Dallas.

But he's in a new face of his life.

He's just content where he isn't happy to be playing basketball.

But he's going to make it a little bit easier for Kyrie,

I think, at the simplest way.

I think Kyrie has played it about as smoothly

as a veteran star in his position could, which is happy

to be here, happy to contribute, happy to be in Dallas.

But also, I think the subtext of all that is,

like this is a small guard coming off

a yet another major injury who only has so much

like really high-level basketball left.

And he's shown to his credit,

he can be a pretty incredible mentor to young players,

especially in Dallas.

And so having him around is not a bad thing

by any stretch of the imagination.

He's going to make them so much better just by being there.

This was one of the worst offenses in the league last season.

That's going to only go up.

But how long is that going to be okay for Kyrie to do

in what he wants to do?

That's kind of the looming question, I think,

as far as it relates to that.

It's always been the crazy thing with Kyrie

because from the outside, you would think that he would

bristle at a lot of these things,

but ultimately, it seems like he's one of the great

hang guys in the league.

Like everyone loves him, including young players.

Well, I think it was always directionally where it's like,

I think what he wanted was to be respected.

And so when he was playing with LeBron,

and it was like the little brothering from LeBron,

but also from the media, like the way he was characterized,

I think he didn't necessarily enjoy it.

But as soon as it was like, oh, I am peers with Kevin Durant.

Oh, I am kind of a mentor to Luca Doncic

on a team that's going to the NBA finals.

Like I think everything kind of clicked into place for him

in which he just wanted to be looked at it a particular way.

And as soon as he was, he kind of is a good citizen

for an NBA team.

The COVID stuff, I think, also getting past that was.

COVID is pretty important.

It's a weird time for all of us.

The COVID thing, the document.

Look, there's a lot of stuff.

He stepped in it plenty of times,

but I think he's come a long way.

Well, since we're talking about Kyrie,

why don't we get to our existential question,

which is what's more important for Cooper Flag's development?

Is it keeping Kyrie and letting him help rear

these young guys, Cooper in particular,

or do you want to flip him for the future building blocks

that you can get presumably in a Kyrie trade?

I think it depends on the building blocks.

And this is where you don't trade Kyrie just for the sake of it.

And he does have a player option after this year.

So there is time to play this entire season

with him on the roster, find a new home next summer

that could be good for everybody.

Like there's time to play with here.

And I think if the right offer came around, sure,

the building blocks for Cooper are super important.

We've seen that with a lot of developing stars,

the more you can get kind of a good infrastructure

around them early, the more they can learn how to work with it.

But I'm not trading Kyrie even for just anything.

I think it has to be the right deal.

It has to be the right offer.

It has to be the right timing.

I don't really know what that is right now.

Well, I mean, the clock is ticking increasingly louder

as it does for guys who are 32.

Is he 32 or did he just, no, he's 34?

Because he missed the season so fast.

Well, reference, you got to go by that.

Yeah, the clock is ticking incredibly loud.

And so you would think that that would be sooner than later.

But if you're going to get, especially when you compound it

with the ACL injury on the natural progression of guards,

granted Kyrie is one of the most skilled basketball players

ever ever.

I mean, just in terms of below the rim finishing,

he might be the best ball handling guard ever, honestly.

So his arc might be different than other guys

and that he's not contingent on just like shooting the ball

or whatever it is.

All those things kind of wrap up.

But I would think that to get the most bank per buck,

this would be a very short term conversation when you think.

Could be.

I think there are a lot of teams who could use Kyrie clearly.

And I think it's the combination of the better and know

how the shot making the like time and place

and score understanding of how he plays is so sophisticated.

And I think it's very easy to take for granted,

but that all playoff teams need.

I just, I don't know, like this arrangement

between granted Kyrie and a different version

of the Mavericks has been so successful for them both.

And so like such a worthwhile endeavor

that I don't think anyone's like racing to the door right now.

Right.

You basically owe it to your fans to actually get him back

on the core and show these two guys together.

If only for half a season, because they probably

been waiting for this since Cooper has been drafted

and didn't get it, they didn't get it with Anthony Davis

being there as well.

And so like I feel like this is probably

a deadline conversation.

But if you trade Kyrie, you also need

to trade him for more guards because he's probably

the only actual point guard on the roster at this point.

And so stabilizing the position is critical, not only for him,

but just some of these other guys around him,

as much as we love watching Cooper flag

kind of be point Cooper for a while,

it'd be nice if he slotted into his natural position

for at least half a season at this point.

Yeah, they need the ball handling if they're going to trade Kyrie.

They also need the shooting.

This is a team that was like 27th and 3.8,

26 and 3.0 percentage and just lost click Thompson.

So it's like Kyrie is one of their best spacing options

in addition to everything else he brings to the table.

This team is variant Atlanta Hawks

from a couple years ago, honestly.

Because if you think about you have small guard

who is probably not going to be around,

do you think about you have like big forward

who has upside as a playmaker with Jalen Johnson?

The roster build reminds me of the Hawks

from a couple years ago.

And that's kind of where I'm comparing those two timelines

and the choices that they made.

You just have a lot of big forwards

and they keep adding them.

Like I mean, Naldama's 3, 4, 5, probably more of a 4, 5.

But I don't know, those two timelines jumped out to me

as interesting.

I don't know what you can clean from that in terms

of how the match should go about their business.

That was something I was thinking about.

I think there's all these different components

of that timeline where yeah, there's the Kyrie question

as it relates to Cooper flag and the development

of this roster.

There's also like what do you do with all these forwards

who you have brought together to give yourself options

to explore the market on guys like PJ Washington

to insulate the roster from the injury troubles

that seem to dog get it every turn.

It's useful having all these guys,

but you cannot play all these guys.

And so how do you resolve that in a way

that makes space for Rose Johnson

when he's ready to play?

Although you could look at a different way

in is Messiah coming from Toronto building

the all power forward everything.

Yeah, operation 6, 9 back effect.

Right.

Plus Mike Schmidt also did a similar thing.

Prioritize size and those 3D type wings.

Are they just trying to do that with Matt with Dallas Maverick?

Are they trying to set up where everybody

is that big and maybe Cooper isn't the nominal point guard?

But he's like a guy who's going to handle a lot in his future.

And so it's not that big of a deal if they have a point guard.

That would be the counter argument to that,

but I don't know what their vision is at this stage.

I just think last season,

hopefully kind of disabuse some of that notion.

Like you want Cooper flag handling the ball a bit.

You want him creating certainly,

but it just showed how much help he needs as far as like

setting the table for everyone else

and also making his life easier.

Like I don't want Cooper flag taking that many pull up jumpers

all the time.

I want him being put in positions to accentuate

what other stars do well.

And so however long Kyrie is on this team,

this season is a good pilot program for if you put a shot

creator with Cooper flag, what does that do for Cooper's game?

How does that open up things for Kyrie?

Like what are the synergies that are going to be fun

to play with for Cooper flag over the next decade of his career?

Operation 6.9, did you get that from Justin's Twitter

suggested?

I was just curious.

We don't look at us for a U page anymore.

It's my first stack actually.

Yeah, I'm very sorry.

I kind of wonder, the more we're talking about Kyrie,

and I'm kind of thinking about like what has value

to move forward and to help Cooper flag.

Obviously, Pete, you mentioned it's a glut of the same type

of player, like hints the nickname of the team there that Rob

gave them.

But I kind of wonder a distressed asset that could be like a

glass half empty glass half full guy like Derek Lively could be

potentially pretty valuable since he's younger.

And it kind of makes me wonder if maybe if Kyrie is more,

because we saw him at the apex of that team build in 2024

with when they went to that finals.

And what happened to Kyrie at that

finals when he was healthy?

It's kind of like, can he be the second banana on a team

that's like highly, highly competitive against a really

switchy physical wing heavy team?

Because those are the teams that you're going to have to go

through in the West.

And it kind of makes me wonder what team is going to be

interested in that.

Or for it's going to be more of a like Kyrie's marketable.

We're bringing him for that reason rather than a competitive

basketball event.

So you're wondering what is Kyrie's market value at this stage

considering what happened in the finals?

Yeah, because you watched him just struggle as Luke

was number two.

And I just kind of wonder, are we, do we really see a better

version of that on the horizon?

If you're a team that's competitive,

or would it have to be a different roster build than a

like a Helio Luke attack?

I mean, to just bring it all the way back,

I think the reason Kyrie struggled in that series in that spot

had less to do with Kyrie and more to do with if the surrounding

pieces are Derek Jones Jr.

PJ Washington and a very young Derek lively or Daniel Gafford.

What, like how much creative juice is there when Kyrie has to

give up the ball?

It was very tilted towards him.

And so it's like if he wasn't trying,

if he wasn't pulling a rabbit out of a hat,

nothing was happening on a lot of those possessions.

And so I think the ideal case for Kyrie is not that he has to

carry that heavier load.

It's that he's playing on a team that has some secondary

playmakers that has some short role biggs that has guys who he

can dish off to and relocate and be one of the most

dangerous scores in the game.

Yeah, I mean, the Detroit option is so tantalizing for this

exact reason.

They have all the size they could protect him, they clearly

go on a different path.

We'll get to that later on here quicker than you might think

in these power rankings.

But there's probably going to be someone there.

And I think from the Dallas side, the case for trading is they

are pretty asset poor from this point forward.

The next four first round picks they are out as a result of all

the wheeling and dealing in the Luca era.

So they need talent.

They have done a good job this offseason going and getting it

from different sources.

They're taking a lot of second, third spins on some interesting

guys you mentioned, Salty Altama.

Zachary Ryshoshet is probably the interesting one.

And we're in the guys and things portion of this here.

So in your one of Cooper flag, they took the photo of all the

number one draft picks.

It was Cooper, Kyrie, Anthony Davis.

This year they took the same photo.

Only it was Cooper, Kyrie and Zachary Ryshoshet.

Interesting.

Whose head still seems to be spinning from this whole

experience.

I don't know if you all saw that clip of him.

He's like, I don't know what happened.

They told me I played well my first year.

He was like, the league is hard.

Yeah, he seems like he's a little he's a little destabilized

train.

Distabilitated.

Your subtle French accent is better than Justin's

proplaced Italian accent.

I was very that was very subtle.

I didn't try to go into it because you always shame me when I go

Rob is so he's so woke.

You can't do an accent around Rome.

International podcast.

Like I don't want to get into, you know,

the history of discrimination in this country.

I'm just going to say an Italian accent is a very

particular choice to make, you know.

I can't believe you said that.

Take it back.

What I'm Italian, I could do that.

That's how that works.

I don't think that's how that works.

If you go full Mario, I don't think you can do it.

It's my people.

Anyway, Risha Shay is here.

I like the poll considering where Dallas is at at this stage.

Obviously, I think did not go well with the Hawks.

It really didn't seem like the environment was suited to him,

like fostering and developing because Trayon was already

thrown barbed in him as soon as he got in there.

This, at the very least, he's going to have a runway to figure

it out.

The problem is he makes so much as we've

talked about with other guys that like, it costs a lot

in order to allow him that development.

But he did shoot it well at this stage, like he's 37%

3 point shooter.

He's turning 21 in April.

So he's still very young and figuring it out.

There is a template to be a credible 3-in-D guy.

I just think it's going to need some time.

And the Mavericks at this stage have the time to do it.

So I like that move.

Well, I think the good news is if he is a 3-in-D guy,

it doesn't have to be in a very static stance

still kind of sense.

He can be a fluid open court player.

He can be the kind of guy who you hit on a cut and connects

the dot to the next spot in line.

And so if he's doing those things, it's not just,

OK, are you guarding your position at an elite level

and hitting 38% of your 3s?

Like, OK, you have enough other things

you're bringing to the game and to your team,

where it can soften some of the blow of a bad shooting

night.

If they can get enough of that, I mean,

it's a worthy enterprise regardless.

I think with Risa Shae, you just always

worry about his aggressiveness on the drive,

his refusal to shoot at sometimes.

He just like clams up in a way you don't want

your dynamic wing players to clam out.

Yeah.

And the history of like number one picks

being rehabilitated is not illustrious.

But he's such an outlier as a number one guy, though,

is the thing.

Like, he's probably the least ballyhooed number one pick

in our lifetime.

Like, we had to go all the way back to certainly recent history.

Even we talked about with Bill O'Connor,

but like, O'Connor, people thought he was going to be a thing.

I think Risa Shae came in being like,

well, this draft sucks.

We'll just get a solid player.

He hasn't lived up to that at this point,

so there's still a long way to go.

That's what hurts.

You try to take the solid double swing,

and it's like, he's going to make

if they keep him next season.

So not this season, season following.

On his team option, $17 million is the fourth most

currently on the math books for next season.

So like, the flyers cost a lot when you get picked

at high, but they're not really in a position

where the salary means a lot.

Like, I'm not too worried about Risa Shae's salary.

I'm concerned with who can he be?

How is he interested in playing and do the mavericks

have the infrastructure to channel the best version of him?

And that's another area where I think the more ball

handlers that better, frankly.

Yeah.

And Risa Shae's not going to be disabused

of any kind of like destructive idea of who he is.

I don't, I never got that sense from him,

because he's never really been a primary on any team

that I've ever watched other than like,

maybe like the French national teams or whatever.

I don't have enough of a knowledge on that one to know for sure.

So that would mean that, you know,

the money is not going to be scary.

If you do audition him and he's worth keeping around,

it's not like you're going to be like,

oh God, we got to, you know, really back the brings up

to this guy.

There's a version of this team where you get to the second unit.

And it's like, Risa Shae's playing well,

Naji Marshall's a downhill force, Daniel Gafford,

although he's probably going to start up again this season

with life layout, it's just like a bundle of energy.

Sergio De La Rea comes on and is like,

wheeling and dealing like they could have a really fun

open court group.

I don't know that they're going to be great,

but as far as putting guys in a position to succeed

who are natural athletes who do have some feel to them,

I actually think the Mav's reserves could be pretty compelling.

Yeah, spatially that made me a little,

I'll say absolutely.

Absolutely.

Well, let's sort of saunt you in there and, you know,

everything is fine.

There we go.

Well, which of these guys is most intriguing to you guys?

We named off a lot of them.

We didn't name Marais Johnson,

who we could throw in here.

Number nine overall pick.

We could talk about Dustin May stepping in.

Dustin May to the coach field from college.

He's a real straight shooter.

Even just the coach.

Yeah, he's doing real coaching out there.

Coach, I'm a, I mean, we have really seen someone make that

jump in a while.

Certainly a college coach of like his stature.

He's the last one.

Beeline.

Might be.

That went great.

They go great from Michigan.

But I think we have reason to believe that Dusty may

be slightly more adaptable and also a little more fluent

in just like talking to humans who are, you can't treat like a

19 year old.

Sure.

Even if they are a 19 year old progressive by all accounts,

like consider one of the more progressive minds, like he at the

high, at the college basketball level, obviously punched above his

way when he was at smaller school.

So he's an innovative thinker.

And I think his temperament is pretty good.

I mean, I don't know the B-Lam was like, was he was a, yeah,

yell, I mean, he's that I think that's kind of let me tell you

secret.

They're all yellow.

No, yellows really.

I mean, I think he takes people to task, but I think just guys who

are kind of inherent, yellowers don't really work.

So I think he could on that standpoint, I mean, Brad Stevens,

one of the huge ones, success story.

That's been years and years and years, but temperament wise.

Yes, absolutely.

The guys that tend to flam out are the real hard drivers that

tried to take their rigorous structure from the college ranks

to adult men who don't want anything to do with that, even when

they're rookies.

And so if Dusty May is the opposite, seems like it would be a fit.

I don't know about him in terms of a tactician, like do people

think highly of him in terms of like how he's scheming things up.

Do you think that will be a strength?

Yeah, yeah.

I think he's considered because the teams that he played really

successful, we're going to all briefly step into a nerdy world

here.

I mean, his Florida Atlantic teams played a certain way.

And then his Michigan teams played a completely different way

that I think people didn't totally expect.

So I think he's versatile, not stuck in his ways.

I think your point just about like the space.

Now we're just kind of talking about Dusty May.

We don't have to do this forever.

But I think that there's a space of self-motivation that

really changes.

I was just talking as like an agent about this actually where

it's like certain players sink or swim based on this sudden space

that they have to kind of where your individual habits dictate

whether or not you succeed or fail.

And I think in the NBA, that's probably why there's less of an appetite

for like, I don't need you to scream at me like that.

There's like, there's expectations.

But overall to put a bow on it, I think May is going to be.

I think he's going to work.

Well, I mean, just the power bases in college versus the pros

are so different.

I think we're isolating something really important

as far as which college coaches succeed.

That adaptability, you would think that college coaches have to be

adaptable, but so many are really not.

It is systemic.

It is institutional.

It is like, I am here for 25 years.

Who the fuck are you?

You've been highly touted recruit to come in and question me.

In the NBA, your feet are in quicksand all the time.

Guys are constantly in and out of the lineup because of the link to the season.

They're constantly being traded and moved around and shuffled around the lineup.

The players themselves are so much more skilled that if you do not know

how to leverage the ball handlers who are waiting on the wings, you're going to drown.

And so I think really the game and the professional game reward the coaches

who are creative enough, who have the ingenuity, who see the bigger picture

beyond like, oh, this is the way I like to play.

All right.

Let's move along here.

Number 22, the Washington Wizards, a fascinating team.

I think this is one that I struggled with the most because if you'd asked me

just in a vacuum, I would say like, they might be pretty good play in level.

As you're doing the exercise, we find them at 22, which it's okay.

It's not too bad.

No, definitely better than it has been in years past, but they do have the backbone

of a successful team if we're assuming that Trayong and Andy Davis are going to play this year

and play well, which I don't know how much you can assume that, but let's just say

for argument and say, they do have a long bench of young guys who have been playing

a bit now.

And then they also have edge of bonds at the number one pick.

So there's a lot to like about this team.

I guess the question is like, how soon does it all click into place?

I wish I knew where to even start.

Yeah.

If it were just the young Wizards, then yeah, we could see the coalescing around Ajay

to Bonsa coming in as number one pick.

That would make sense.

If it were just the old Wizards, I could wrap my arms around that, but trying to make

sense of how those two things intersect and who should be playing with Trayong and Anthony

Davis beyond the fact that it's just like, oh, Alex R is going to play because he's

important.

It's like, we're, I think you naturally start indexing for things that are not just

like optimal basketball fit because the Wizards can't afford to just be the team that

tries to be good this season.

So are you more confused by that?

We'll just call for the sake of conversation a two time line approach here.

Like, would you rather there be a clear where young or where we're going for it?

I think the clarity would be nice, but I'm not saying like you should trade the number

one overall pick to fit the Trayong and Anthony Davis timeline either.

Like clarity is nice.

Having the like a somewhat veteran team with guys who could pop.

I get the appeal of it.

I just think with these particular players, like what where I come down is if you're the

Wizards, what is your absolute top priority?

And I think your top priority has to be who makes AJ to bounce a better and who stands

in his way.

And Trayong seems like the kind of player to me who can make him better right now, who

can make his life a little easier, take some of the creative responsibility off his shoulders,

empower him in ways that I think will be beneficial.

Anthony Davis might do that defensively, might get in his way on offense, might by being

one of two bigs on the floor, clutter stuff up in a way that's counterproductive for

AJ to bounce on the Wizards.

It's just like the second they get AJ, their entire frame of reference shifts.

And that perspective was the perspective that brought in Trayong and Anthony Davis in

the first place.

This is an odd situation.

I want to get to the like Tray and the bounce thing.

I'm more concerned than you at the end, but it's actually because there are a couple

like templates of the way this usually plays out, which is, you know, if you're an old

team, say, like, let's say the spurs throughout the years of that crazy run that they have

with pop and dunk and everything.

And you have this system that is working and iterating over and over again and taking

different forms.

And you also have the benefit of being competitively really great.

And you have the, you know, also you source talent better than anybody.

You end up in these two timeline situations where you have an established thing that is

not threatened by the young players because they weren't drafted super high.

They're not, they don't have crazy expectations.

So you can bring them along with like measured expectations and then hopefully graduate

guys as they go.

And then you have the other version of it where if you have a two time line thing, if you

have a successful young core and you start importing like veteran players who are in

controlled roles and the whole thing is kind of harmonious where this is an odd situation

where I don't know if I'd be curious to know if we agree or we disagree here a year

ago.

I think we've gotten some shit for it.

We were wizard optimistic, I think, where we're coming, I, you know, I came out of last

summer league and I was like, a lot of these players kind of make sense like move.

We're at least inching forward.

These guys, Keishan George, I think is kind of, oh, he performed above expectations.

I like Dre Johnson.

I think he's going to fit in somewhere.

They just had a lot of guys that kind of made sense.

So you end up in this situation where you're bad enough to get an age A to bonza.

But it would be one thing if you had the out of saying like, all right, we're not, we

have these older guys, but we're not committed to them.

They have committed to trade young and a big way.

80 is on the, did you want to go ahead?

No, no, I think you raise a really good point.

I think one thing as media, we probably want things that a little bit be a bit more tidy

than they always are.

Not just media, but also just as us.

Right.

Just humans.

Just control or into your car.

How clean is your car?

Quite.

Okay.

Yeah.

I'm kind of a messy car guy.

That's pretty sparkly.

I'm going to say.

I say this with great affection and admiration, a serial killer bathroom, like just absolutely

spotless.

Right now it's half-tiled and it's not going well.

Laundry's in other area.

I'm like, my clean laundry stays in like a pile that I pull from and it doesn't always

get.

It doesn't always get folded.

Yeah.

Pile guy.

But I get that if you look at a team and it doesn't really match up like, oh, I get like

being confused and thus like maybe lowering them in an exercise like this.

But I find the tre young Anthony Davis pick and roll to be like such a clear cut backbone

for any team that works and doesn't necessarily step on everything else they're building.

And if I look at the individuals that they're hoping to bring along here, Saren A.D. work

as a defensive duo.

We'll see if one of them actually steps out and sorry, actually hit some threes.

We'll see, but they could trade off and that's just like a really solid foundation for

something.

At the very least, we know the defense might be credible and that's nice for any organization

let alone a team that has been dog shit at that for a very long time.

And try young gets a bad rap and certainly as a personality, I could see where maybe

he and AJ might step on each other eventually.

But I think the concerns about him being able to feed other players was like a three years

ago thing.

I actually think he made a considered effort to like distribute you and get guys involved

before they ultimately just like tossed them aside in ways that I think are to the benefit

of the rest of the Wizards young guys.

I think it's like wildly overstated to be honest like trade young.

We can talk about the defense and talk about the contract.

We can talk about just like his general style of play.

I understand caveats with all of them.

This is one of the worst offensive teams in the league.

They were so bad, especially in terms of their ball handling.

They had no way to evaluate which young prospects on this team were even good because like

Kishan George is handling the ball way too much.

Everyone's turnovers are ratcheted up.

Trade Johnson is never getting the ball in the position.

He should be getting the ball.

So putting trade young on this team naturally helps a lot of those things kind of fall into

their natural place.

He's not perfect, but he is a very good playmaker.

He does give a natural sense of order pretty much everywhere.

He goes probably also wears that is welcome in three years.

I'm okay with all of those components, but I just I just think he gets a lion share

of criticism when he is only like just point blank one of the best pastors in the league.

And if you have that guy on your team, I'm eager to see where it can go.

I think the jumping off of what you're saying is he is going to help, but I think that the

frustrations, even if they're overstated, I do think that they're backed up with some

pretty clear evidence.

And I think that that's probably why you need to have a phase mindset about this.

Whereas if you can come in with a flag, we were talking about just like stretching these

got a Cooper or Cedric coward, some other thing where it's like we're just going to throw

through a fire host because these guys can take it and they're going to be better for

it.

And I'm just not going to have the opportunity to do this because Tray's play style, even

though he is one of the most brilliant home run hitter pastors I've ever seen.

Either hand crazy soft all the little nerdy shit you want to get into the velocity throws

a super catchable ball like it just he's probably fun to play with, but that the conditions

with in which you're going to receive that brilliance are very narrow because I wrote this

down and he just has a helio play style passes per 100.

If you're playing with Tray young now a lot of superstars meet this box or check this

box.

If you're shea the ball is going to not be moving around as much.

Tray on the floor this past or in 2425 it was 270 passes per 100 when he's off the

floor.

The ball was passed 314 times per 100 possessions.

The ball moves a lot when he's not on the floor.

The problem with that is he's not a catching shoe player.

He has to shoot with the ball in his hands.

It's heavily lopsided towards him dribbling.

So I say that to say that's going to create such a narrow construct for AJ that I don't

think he's going to enjoy that.

I think that the happiness of this season is going to rise or fall based on how much

a because AJ is we're talking about boozer having a way that he's played throughout.

AJ has always been central to whatever situation he's in.

And I could see this wearing him out not just in a personal.

Sure.

I think the two things are going to kind of conflate.

But I want to see that budge.

Like I'm really compelled by AJ to bounce.

I think he has a very strong chance to be the best player in this draft class for a

stack as it is.

I'm like on pins and needles kind of watching every step he takes because he's so potentially

explosive.

But I want to see him be incisive, right?

Like put him in specific context, take him out of his comfort zone.

How much of a scalpel can you be and not just a guy who is able to blow past people and

overwhelm people based on your athleticism?

Oh my god.

I want to see him make tactical advantages.

And I think that's some of what you can do playing alongside someone like Tray Young,

who I mean, to be clear on Tray, like I think the question of how you build a championship

team with Tray Young might be unsolvable.

Like it just might be too much weight, too much burden, too weird to play style to make

it through that many playoff rounds.

But how you get to 40 wins, 50 wins, like that feels fairly clear to me.

And how you do it with him and AJ DeBonza, like I can see how that could still work.

For a while, he was printing 40 win teams with the Hawks.

I think he should be the training wheels.

He should be the training wheels for AJ DeBonza.

The issue is only, I'm blown right past it.

The problem was the extension and that they gave him so much.

And also for so many years that you, I mean, there's no way AJ doesn't get to the point

within this contract term that he will want more of the reins of this offense.

And so that kind of brings us to the existential question because Anthony Davis also in a similar

situation where he's extensionelable, he seems like he would want one as soon as possible.

Oh yeah.

Which is, let's be clear, though reason the Dallas Mavericks traded him above any other,

not just we got to turn the page, but they didn't want to be on the hook for 80s next

deal.

So he's eligible for four years, 276 million.

Yeah, I was going into his age 33 season, 15th year in the week.

I didn't realize he was that deep in his career.

That's why because we don't see him very often over the past few years.

But my question is less will he earn it?

Should the Wizards give it to him?

And it's more so if you're a Wizards fan, do you want to see him get that?

As if he gets it, presumably things are going well.

But then also if things are going well, perhaps you are officially capped your ceiling in

the same way we talked about with trailers, like we had to figure this out later.

Even if it's like four years down the road, this is a big, lots of ball hanging that might

encumber us from like getting a crucial piece in place of like him and his age 3536 season.

So if you're a Wiz fan, like do you want to see him extend it?

I think healthy Anthony Davis is maybe one of the 20 best players in the league.

And I would not touch this extension for a second.

I would not even really think all that part about it.