How Lane Johnson’s Retirement Will Affect the Eagles and More Questions for Week 5

This episode is brought to you by Core Power Protein Shakes.

In football, staying ready isn't just about what you do on game day.

Good recovery is just as important to be prepared for your next matchup.

Core Power Protein Shakes help you keep going after your workout with high quality protein to

build muscle and electrolytes to help hydrate. This shake has all your recovery needs in one bottle.

Available in 26g and 42g protein options. Visit CorePower.com to learn more.

What's up everybody? It is the Ringer NFL show Wednesday, October 7th. Tom

Pelicero here. Shio Kapadia will be joining us as always. Wild 24 hours or so in Philadelphia.

Lane Johnson retired. Cam Durgan's traded to the Ravens. The Eagles loading up on picks in 2028.

What does it all mean both for this Eagles team now and in the future we'll get into that ahead

of a big game for them on Sunday against the Jaguars. A slew of really intriguing matchup.

Seahawks 49ers is on the dock at this weekend as well. Bears, Packers and all that brings with it.

We'll get into those games. Shio's also got some questions about how seriously we should take

some of the surprises early in the season. Are we, are we think of the Raiders as a potential

playoff team? Are we buying the Giants as the favorites in the NFC East at 3 and 1 all that and

lots more right after this? This is the Ringer NFL show presented by Fandall. Make every NFL week

more rewarding with Fandall rewards club. Just bet like you normally would and earn points on

eligible settled bets winner lose. Keep collecting points level up and unlock bigger rewards.

So keep an eye on your rewards club progress and see what you can unlock. This is your most

rewarding season ever with Fandall. 21 plus select states 18 plus DCR Wyoming. Gamling problem

called 1-800-Gamler. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org-chat in Connecticut.

Tom Pillissaro here with Shio Kapadia and Iberz mentioning Shio,

no Billy Gill on a Guillermo Miracles. He is absent for very, very important reasons.

He said, you know, he got called in for jury duty. Do we believe that Tom? That's the first question

we have to answer here. Is it possible? Maybe he's annoyed at us. He's mad at us. Did we say

something during the last episode that offended him or do we believe that he's actually in there

for jury duty today? I think he's there. I don't believe that he would intentionally miss this,

but my main question is, if you're trying to, let's say, whichever side you're on in whatever

case he's on, if you're trying to disqualify him, do you just put up his quarterback rankings with

Brock Curry outside of the top 12? Do you just start there and work backwards? Do you look at the

comments on Instagram? On virtually every opinion he has? Like, where would you begin? Yeah, there

was the Caleb Williams thing. Also, that got people quite upset. You know, my wife had to take. I

don't know that this was on the record, but she said, you know, I don't know that he's going to

have a hard time if he wanted to get out of it. No, he might want to just perform his civic duty and

get selected. That's entirely possible. But if he wanted to get out of it, she felt like maybe some

of his answers to some of the questions, you know, might be a little out there that he wouldn't

have a hard time basically getting out of it if he wanted to get out of it. So I guess we'll see

if he gets selected and we're not sure when he'll be back. It's kind of like Lamar Jackson, I guess

we could say. So Billy, we hope to be back Friday. This could also be like a murder trial or

something like he's just gone for the rest of the season. We truly don't know when Billy will return.

But we wish him the best of luck and I have a feeling well of a text before we finish recording

the show saying, hey, I'm out. I got out of this thing. The Eagles are probably going to lead this

show regardless with the Lane Johnson retirement, which is, you know, these things happen occasionally,

but not a multi-time all pro stoward of the franchise retiring essentially right before the game

on Sunday in week four of the season. But then today on top of it, you get another really interesting

move here, Shield. The Eagles agreeing to trade Cam Jurgens, who was a pro bowl guard,

who had grown, was recently been playing center. He goes to the Ravens, one of the seventh round

for a fifth round pick in 2027 and a second round pick in 2028 to go with the Patriots first

from pick. They already got out of the AJ Brown trade. Shield, you know that team as well as

anyone. I will never buy that this is how he tanking the season. He's just thinking about two

years down the road. There's always, there's always counter moves when it comes to how he builds that

team. But the totality of this, not just for the offensive line, but for the franchise, what to

expect the rest of this season? What do you make of it all? Yeah, I'm with you. I think there was a

lot of immediate reaction that they're punting on the season. They've got all these injuries. They

lost last week to the Rams. I just don't think that that's how they operate. And I don't think

teams punt on the season when they're two and two. You barely know what your team's going to be

at that point. And I also think if you believe that's the case, that means you think Jurgens was

playing like at a high level. And now they're going to lose a lot of games because they don't have

cam Jurgens. And the fact of the matter, I'm not trying to be harsh. It's just that he struggled

this season and they moved him over to left guard. And that was a tough spot to put him in. And he

struggled over there at left guard. He's battled through a bunch of injuries. So I think they probably

look at it and say we're getting Landon Dickerson back at some point here off of IR. We've got a young

offensive lineman and Willie Lampkin who we could throw in there. It doesn't mean they're definitely

going to be as good as cam Jurgens. But it's not the highest bar to clear. It's a cam Jurgens earlier

in his career. You wouldn't be able to clear that part was a phenomenal player. He's unfortunately

battled through a bunch of injuries. So I think the Eagles looked at this and said, hey, we can get a

second round pick for him. We've got other options here. And really Tom, I think what this trade comes

down to for both sides. Eagles are making the bet that Jurgens is not going to get back to being the

player. He was earlier in his career because of those injuries. The Ravens are looking at it saying

he's still in his 20s. He's been a good player before. We've had all kinds of injuries at center.

We believe he can be that kind of player. So we'll give up draft capital. So whoever's right

with that evaluation NFL teams disagree all the time. Whoever's right with their evaluation

the player will win the trade. I think I garbled that off the top. Yes. He's a center who has moved

to guard not vice versa. If I did, in fact, get that backwards. And that's the spot they needed.

I mean, I was at the joint practice in Minnesota when Danny Pinter went down with his injury back

in training camp. And then they lose two of their other centers in the same game. You know,

they're now they've been playing somebody out of position. There's a lot of moving parts. This is

still though, shield for a center. You don't normally see second round picks involved in these types

of trades. In part because a lot of times when you're drafting interior offensive lineman,

like you're finding him in the fourth, fifth, sixth round. So clearly there's vision here with

Baltimore. And also, you know, there's not a lot of guys on the street who could solidify that

position. So I certainly appreciate the aggressiveness by Eric DeCosta, not somebody who normally

trades really high picks for anything. I also noticed too that this has become a little bit more

of a trend. I don't recall a volume of trades recently, until recently, that had the higher of the

picks in the following year. This goes all the way back to when the jets did the Quinnon Williams

trade. And they were initially looking for the Cowboys were offering a first round pick in this

past year's draft. And they said, no, we want the first in 2027. We'll take the lower pick in 2026.

And also, I put Joey Porter Jr. Recently, now it happens with Cam Jerkins. It's just it's a really

interesting way of doing business. We all know the 2027 draft is supposed to be really good. But

there's more teams that seem like they're willing to mortgage a little bit more in terms of assets

a year out. The AJ Brown trade being another one as opposed to giving up the assets right now,

even though you're getting a player who knows what role, if any, they have in your team in a

couple of years. Yeah, it feels like it's those two factors that play. One is that anyone in the NFL

who you'll listen to knows the draft is like the 2027 draft. They just want this season to be over

so that they can get to the 2027 draft because they're so excited about the talent pool in 2027.

So I think teams are reluctant to give up those 2027 picks. But then I think it comes down

to franchise stability. How he roseman knows he is going to be running the Eagles in 2028.

You want to trade me a 2028 first rounder, second rounder over a 2027 third rounder. Yeah,

that sounds better to me because I'm going to be here. I'm going to be making those picks. I think

sometimes they have other GMs who they're like, I'm kind of coach for my job here. I need the pick

right away so that I can make the pick and show the owner that I'm upgrading the roster and so

that we can win games so that I still have this job. So I actually think it's an edge that the team

with more stability with their decision makers have had for a long time. And maybe they're just

leaning into it a little bit more now. How are you roseman talking with I think to be reporters

right now in Philadelphia setting quote, according to Zach Burman, we weren't looking to move Cam.

Obviously the Ravens have been looking for a center kind of told them wasn't anything we were

looking to do over the last 24 hours. He got to the point where we felt like it could be a win-win

for them. Obviously getting the players been a two time pro ball center. And obviously for us being

able to get the picks we're able to get and use that money also sign players had a chance to watch

Drew Kendall here play center doing a nice job. I think for us when you talk about the two in the

five moving from the seventh to the fifth event success in the fifth round plus the money plus

Drew playing. We felt like we were getting four players for one and felt like us for us, you know,

with all these guys that we are coming up a lot of the defense side of the ball that we want to

resign and want to extend felt like that was a good situation. Like this is this is part of the

broader calculus that GMs are making. And again, we're seeing this increasingly where it's not just

the pick you're getting. It's the financial flexibility. Go back to the J.J. McCarthy trade

that we had that was just last week. It feels like it was a month ago. It was a believe last

Monday. And okay, it's a fifth round pick, but also you're offloading that case five million

four plus in guaranteed money. It's it's more in the case of a cam jurgens, but they feel like they

get some financial flexibility out of it. In addition to what you're actually getting in terms of

the picks, which is a very high one in 2028. This though brings me to the broader global question here,

she'll which I think that you're equipped you're uniquely equipped to answer. Again, Lane Johnson

retire and I don't want to overlook the import of that. How good of a player he was, how important he

was to that core four of the team that's now all gone. Fletcher Cox and Brandon Graham, Jason

Kelsey Lane Johnson, one uniform players, one two Super Bowls with the franchise. Is this now a

transition phase for the Eagles? And is this Eagles team 2026? We'll talk about 2028,

layer 2026. Is this team good? I don't think not right now. No, they're not a good football team

right now. I mean, you look at their first four weeks of the season, they need the last possession

to beat the commanders last possession to beat the Titans. They get blown out by the Bears and

Case Kingdom on national TV. And then last week, I guess you could look at that and say,

come on, she'll they had the Rams on the ropes in the last seven minutes. I mean, they were out

game by more than 200 yards in that game. They got they made some plays on special teams and they

got a couple turnovers. That's why they were in the game. It was not a down to down. Hey, they're

right there with the Los Angeles Rams. So they've got a lot to figure out. There's no doubt about it.

Earlier, I said, I think we both agreed they're not planting on the season, but Tom a month from now,

we could be having a different conversation where we're looking at it. I mean, they've got some very

interesting players like defense, attack, all Morrow Ojomo is a guy. Remember Milton Williams got paid

a couple of years ago. That's a player who's probably going to set to hit free agency. He's going

to get a big deal. If you're not in the mix, I could see teams being interested in a player like

that. I mean, who knows with someone like Seiko on Barclay, you know, at the deadline. So I think

they got this a big month for them. It's kind of a big pivot point in this era of Eagles football

with Nick Sireani and Jalen Hurts. That's been so successful over the last four, five years,

gotten to the Super Bowl twice, won a Super Bowl. But now you're looking at the roster and you're saying,

all right, you're not as good on the offensive line, which has always been the foundation of the

team, some of the other spots on offense. You traded AJ Brown. You've got some injuries on defense.

You fired. You got rid of your offensive line coach in the off season. There's just been

so many moving parts since the end of last season. That while I think right now, they would love to

win games and be competitive and figure this thing out offensively and be in the mix in December and

January. If it does go south, I don't think, you know, how we rose and will hesitate to lean a little

bit more towards the future than the current thing. We always also need to level set anytime we're

talking about the Eagles because I mean, you lived there, sheel. Everything is deathcon one.

Every Eagles lost his fire. Everybody blow it up. It's all terrible. And I think that we have

to remember Nick Sireani has the highest winning percentage of any active head coach who has been

on the job at least five years. He's been to two Super Bowls. He's won one of them. And Jalen Hurts

during that playoff run in that Super Bowl was a well-earned Super Bowl MVP. He was playing

at that high of a level. The biggest question to me and we talked about this through the course of

camp was going to be you're bringing in Sean Manion and that McVey, Shanahan, O'Connell,

the Flure, all those guys that Sean Manion played for or coached with. It's that style of offense.

And it doesn't look like a fit on paper for Jalen Hurts. So one thing if I'm sitting here and going,

what is the silver lining in all of this? It's that Jalen Hurts by the way, who didn't have

sake one last week and probably won't or you know, it's knocked out of the game. We'll probably

miss a couple of weeks. Devante Smith didn't play last week. Probably going to be out at least

another week here. Now the offensive line's a lot of moving parts. I haven't felt like Jalen Hurts

looks bad. I felt like on the whole, especially in the first two games, he makes a ton of plays.

Even these last two weeks, I didn't sit there going Jalen Hurts as the reason they're losing games.

Like that thing should keep getting better. Is he ever going to be fully comfortable playing that

style under center, play action, turn your back to the line of scrimmage? I don't know. And maybe

they get to the end of this season and say it just wasn't a fit. You know, we're going to let's see if

we might have the opportunity to get someone in who's a better fit for what we want to do. But for Jalen,

Hurts again, this is a really, really good football player who's playing a little bit fish out of

water at this point schematically. And I feel like there's still growth opportunities there based

on what I've seen through the first four weeks. It's a big question facing the team right now.

Is do they double down on this big offensive scheme change? You mentioned it. More under center,

under center, play action. Hey, let's target the middle of the field more. That's with this summer

that was all the talking Philadelphia. You go out to practice. That's what they were doing. And they've

already sort of, it feels to me, been inching away from it and the numbers would back it up that

there's still bottom five bottom eight in under center. They're bottom five bottom eight in under

center, play action. They're bottom five in targeting the middle of the field where they're trying

to find this balance, I think, where hey, some of this stuff we don't look totally comfortable with.

And we're losing some games. Do we mix in more of the old stuff now? Is there some hybrid that can

work? Do we double down and say, what we wanted to do in the off season? That's what we're doing.

It we got to give it some time. We got to be patient. That's something to keep an eye on just the

shape of the offense here in the weeks ahead because they're trying to figure things out while

also trying to win games. And that might not be the easiest thing to do. When like you mentioned,

the defense hasn't been as dominant as I think the team probably internally thought it was going to

be going into the season. And now you just lost one of if not the best right tackles of the past

decade permanently barring some unforeseen change in Lane Johnson's plans here. And oh yeah,

you go on the road to face a Jacksonville team that now it's been four weeks and this varies,

you know, wildly. I mean, I watched a discussion this morning on TV about just Josh Alling going

to tank the bill season. Like that's the point we are here. Everything. It's all a

recency bias. But the Jaguars right now are playing really good football. They had a tough time,

you know, in Denver, but other than that, they've looked like a pretty dominant team to this

point. And I don't think that it's an overreaction to say you at least have to consider them

among the favorites in the AFC right now. Second most wins in the NFL since the start of last season.

I mean, the test of just like, you know, your friend who is a big football fan, if you ask them

that question, I don't think most people would have gotten that. I was surprised when I just looked

it up this morning. Second best point differential behind the Seahawks since the start of last season.

So stuff doesn't always translate from one season to the next, but given that that was Liam Cohen's

first year last season, and he's still there in the quarterback and the coach are the same and the

defensive coordinators the same. They've been on a really impressive run and they passed the

eye test. It doesn't feel fluky. They can win in different ways. The run games better this year.

Trevor Lawrence is just peppering throws to the middle of the field. The scheme is very good.

And defensively, it's like, it's not perfect, but I do like the sort of the personality that they

have. They play hard. They're going to be aggressive. They're not just sitting back. They seem to be

able to make plays and create turnovers. And so there, I think seven point favorites in this game

against the Eagles time. And I was looking back 2021 is the last time the Eagles were an underdog

by seven points. It kind of, it includes the playoffs. I mean, that puts into perspective

what a run the Eagles had been on and kind of where they are right now when you just look at how

they're being viewed against an upper echelon team. One of the fascinating things too about the

Jaguars is you mentioned the run game being better. That's after Travis, he was ATN at the time.

Now he's ATN in New Orleans leaves in free agency. They make a run at JK Dobbins and they think

they got him and then it kind of blows up and he doesn't end up going there. They end up with,

I don't think a lot of people could sit there. You might know Basel Tutin, but like you're not sitting

there rattling off the Jaguars depth chart, but they've got this philosophy. What Liam Cohen is doing

offensively, it's the foundation of everything they do. I mean, do the Jaguars have a number one

receiver? I don't know about that, but they got several guys who are really, really good number

twos between Jacobi Myers, Parker Washington, Brian Thomas Jr., who I'm sure once again be the

subject of trade rumors. I have no expectation they're trading Brian Thomas Jr. You got a really

good tight end in Brenton's strange and you got a quarterback in Trevor Lawrence who was playing

pretty well, but point being, I don't know that you look at that team and you just go, God,

there's so much more talented than everyone else, but they are really well coached. They seem to

have an approach every week that tests you and it's going to be a test too for a Vic Fangio

defense that I don't think has played to the standard of most Vic defenses that we've seen over his time.

Yeah, it's the run game. It's like you mentioned, they spread the ball around and they have like a

few plays every game where, wait, which receiver was that? That was an unbelievable play. Oh,

Parker Washington, this we go, Jacobi Myers, one of the tight ends, it just feels like those guys come

through over and over again and are really well coached. And I mean, their thing is just the middle

of the field. It feels like that void between the linebackers and the safeties. They are

exploiting that. If they see a weakness there, if Liam Cohen sees a weakness in that area of your

defense, he's not messing around. He'll just like we, we will just target that area over and over

again, Trevor Lawrence is is is throwing with the anticipation. And that's an issue for the

Seagulls defense. They've had some issues at linebacker. They've had some issues at safety. And so

yeah, it could be a long day for them. They still do have the veteran defensive coordinator.

We'll see if he has something cooked up here on Sunday morning, but I think it's a tough matchup.

It's a good matchup, I think, for Jacksonville. There's some other really good matchups on the

slate too. One that I think it's the most played rivalry in the NFL. Everyone knows the history.

Everyone knows the recent history. And I also understand the people look at the Packers and

just go, they're kind of in disarray right now. And they're probably lucky to be two and two.

Honestly, with the way they've played their personnel challenges, all the injuries they've had.

But this game bears at Packers feels like a really, really big game. Ben Johnson's already said

Tyson Beijing's going to start a quarterback unless that is an elaborate ruse to throw Matt LaFlure

off the set. I expect it's going to be a Beijing bean the starting quarterback. And this is the

Packers with this team coming into their building. It's been a long time since the Bears have won

several games in a row in this series. They have had the Packers number over the past couple of years.

Green Bay is going to have to find a way to play it at a higher level. And if you do,

if you beat the Bears, I don't do this any reason you should just write off the Packers

from being a playoff team once again. But what they've got over Cum Sheel is the offensive line.

They signed three veterans last week, basically saying like, our young guys aren't going to cut it.

We got to totally redo this thing. They lost the right tackle. They still don't have the running

back. They lost one of their top receivers. And defensively, we're all waiting for

Mike Parsons to everyone thought we'd be back by week five or six. And then as I reported in

the sweep on some stack over the weekend, I don't know that we see him till November. And that's

not because of a setback. It's just because it's a long process. You know, the ACL plus the

meniscus, the Packers are really, really conservative. So it's like, you don't have, we don't know when

Mike Parsons or Josh Jacobs is walking through that door. In Jacobs case, at all, if he's walking

through that door. And so they have to find a way. And it's already shaping up to be one of those

seasons where if the Packers man's to get to 98 or 10 and 7, I feel like Malle Flore should be a

coach of the year candidate because on paper right now, like it is a mess. Yeah, that that

Edger and Cooper entry last week is kind of a two. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's a, that's a big

deal. He's one of the best defensive players. And they don't, I don't think they have a lot of great

defensive players on the team, especially with Parsons out. So you're right that this is sort of a

narrative shaping type game. It feels like, you know, there's a scenario where the bears just

go in there and smack them down and they're just like, it's a, it's a different time now.

You know, Ben Johnson is here. I don't even know how far to take the hyperbodies with Ben Johnson

right now. I mean, they had 34 first downs last week with Tyson Beijing as their quarterback. And,

you know, it wasn't all, it's the run game. They just, that, that's the sign of a great coach,

the ability to adjust when you don't have all your guys and put together a performance,

performance like that days after doing it with case, Keenum. I mean, Ben Johnson has had the best

coaching job in the NFL so far this season. And if they continue to do it, their defense, I think,

has really overachieved also with Dennis Allen, where it's not the most talented unit, but those

guys are playing well too. If they just kind of crush the Packers, it's a new day in the NFC North.

And the Packers fans are going to be like, oh my gosh, what is our future and the bears fans

are going to be over the moon. On the other hand, to your point, the Flurr, I mean, his

profile reference page is very good. He wins a lot of games. He's won with different quarterbacks.

He's won under different circumstances. If they can find a way to sort of piece it together,

get a victory here. Again, they're one of those teams we just talked about. Stay in it, stay

in it, stay in it. Oh, Michael Parsons is back. Oh, our offensive line is playing a little bit better.

I'll give him credit. Last week was not pretty against the Bucks. They had a turnover inside the

five yard line. They had another turnover on the Tampa side of the field, but they adjusted.

I mean, love was getting rid of the football. I forget what two point four seconds or whatever it was.

Like they're recognizing a weakness, trying to adjust for it. And it was enough to win the game.

It wasn't enough to inspire Packers fans to say we're back, baby. No, you know, where this is

just like previous years, but it was enough to win the game. And I think that's got to be their

mentality this weekend and going forward. To me, this is a big Jonathan Ganon game too, because

the Packers defense up until last week when they're facing an under after rookie quarterback in his

first start, they just they hadn't played well. Again, Mike is a big deal. You take the best player,

the highest paid player off any defense and Lee, it's going to have a trickle down effect. That's

just the way that it works. Last week, they seem to put it together a little bit more, but now you

got Ben Johnson coming into town who not only takes this match up very personally, but is also one

of the most brilliant coaches in the NFL. He's a different starting quarterback three weeks in a row.

And if anything, it's looked like with case, Keenam and Tyson Beijing, he's opened up the playbook

because he knows he doesn't have guys who can go and when the, you know, the first couple reads

aren't there goes and makes magic happen. That's definitely not case, Keenam. It's really not

Tyson Beijing, although he's a really, really good quarterback and I wouldn't be surprised if he's

starting somewhere in 2027 is pending exactly how things play out whether the Bears would move them

and all those different things. But Ben is going to come in with a plan to attack whatever

weaknesses he sees on film. Like they're going to have their hands full. I don't think you can go in

saying, yeah, we'll beat him 17 to 14 again. I know that happened against the Vikings from the

reign a couple of weeks ago and they were able to display that grinded out defensive game. But

it's a great chess match. I think especially Ben going up against Ganon and let's see without

Cooper, as you mentioned, without Parsons, you know, exactly what Green Bay has in store. We've also

got Raiders at Patriots this week, which it's a rematch of the weirdest game of the 2025 season. I

know we've talked about it. I was there week one Raiders beat the Patriots in New England. Mike

Maribles first game is coached. Everyone goes, what's going on? Pete Carroll's revive in the

rate. Raiders lost basically every game after that Patriots basically won every game after that.

There was a complete flip after week one. Now you got a Raiders team that even in losing last week's

match, he looked pretty good and they go up against a Patriots team that I really believe. I

know we're going to talk Raiders later, but the Patriots, what you saw last week, I don't think that

was a fluke. I think that they really kind of found themselves and they Mike Maribles been good at

this through his career, take when all the noise is coming together and be able to refocus your

team on what actually matters. Yeah, Vrayblin, Drake may hate each other, May's got the yips and

shouldn't have traded K-Shambu. It's like, all right, what do you say after the game? We don't have to

take any more shit. That's basically what it is. Was it was a no more shit taking game for that?

And now, all right, don't have the left out. Now come and take care of business at home where your

fans will be. Finally, you'd take a little less on edge than they've been, but this is not a

not a cakewalk type of game. I haven't stretched. It's like we look at the schedule before the

season or even when we do it now. We're like, oh, well, their next three games are this and it's

just a reminder how much things change because I don't know that there's a big difference between

these two teams and how they're playing right now. I mean, you mentioned it. Patriots,

you have the bounce back game last week, but that's one game. And let's be honest, that came down to

a play at the end. Ifton Chisholm making that play or Josh Allen, not making a play at the end.

I mean, if one of those things goes differently, we're having a different conversation. We're saying,

okay, Patriots found some stuff they played well. Look at the yardage. Look at the offense, but,

there's still one of the biggest disappointments in the NFL. So it's such a reminder of how thin that

line is between how we kind of view these teams. So yeah, I think the Patriots do need to come back.

They need to make sure take care of business here because if they have a let down here and may

doesn't play well, we go back to the starting line of where we were a week ago or two weeks ago

with this Patriots team. So they got a string together a couple wins. But yeah, that's not one that,

you know, two weeks ago before the season, we would have circled Patriots Raiders week five. That's

going to be fun. Now it looks like one of the more fun matchups on the slate this weekend.

Bill's Rams got plenty of time to talk about that because that's not till Monday night. But

game of the week in my mind, 49ers at Seahawks, it's not close. You talk to people within the league.

A lot of people think the 49ers are the best team they've seen. It's just the question of,

frankly, the durability of a team that's got the oldest roster in the NFL. Everyone looks younger.

George Kiddell looks younger, Debo Samuel looks younger like this is what you're hoping to see,

especially on the offensive side. I mean, this could be that there's other good teams. Obviously

the Rams have to be in that conversation. Whoever comes out of the NC North has to be in that conversation.

But if you had a 49ers Seahawks and a championship game, I don't think anybody would be surprised.

And it feels like, I mean, this is one of those classes. You go back to, you know, the first Seahawks,

many Dynastie let's call it that. When the NC two years ago, but it was always those two teams

there at the end. And you might begin a little preview of what you're seeing in January this week.

And you know Kyle Shanahan's looking at that playoff game last year, but like, come on,

I didn't have anybody in that game. Everybody could praise Mike McDonald and the Seahawks won

the Super Bowl. But if we were healthy, I mean, how often, as he probably said in his career,

if we were healthy at the right time, he would already have a ring. He might have multiple rings.

So, you know, I mentioned Ben Johnson, I think has probably done the best coaching job this year.

Kyle Shanahan's right there. I mean, that that team, I was very concerned with the way

their summer went and the injuries and the age on the roster. And they just look legit every single

week. I mean, they beat in the Broncos, they beat in the Rams, like they beaten good teams. This

hasn't been a cakewalk schedule so far. So he's done a terrific job. And I'm sure he wants a shot

at the Seahawks at McDonald. Now that he's got his guys, they still have injuries, but he's got his

main guys. I think it's a more fair fight this weekend. Seahawks defense 49ers offense,

peak of their powers in a way, that's going to be a lot of fun. This is also, you know, we're

basically halfway to the trade deadline. Trade deadline is November 10th. Nobody's at like the

fire sale point. We had two trades last week, but they were unique circumstances. J. Jim McCarthy,

the Giants badly needed a quarterback. That's the guy they wanted. Minnesota was ready to move on.

And Joey Porter, Jr. was making abundantly clear. He had no intention of actually playing for

the Steelers and it was going to be a mess. So those happen, but like the real wave of the

trades feel start to come together after this weekend. You might already have some conversations

going on. I know there have been calls this week, mainly because of injuries, but people are

still feeling it out. Nobody wants to punt on their season after four games. But if you're

on four and that becomes 0 and 5, if you're one and three and that becomes one and four,

this is kind of the tipping point. Teams like San Francisco that have been hit, I mean,

in a bunch of different positions, but they're surely looking and going, all right,

we've probably got one move we can make before the deadline. Like what are we working with here?

How badly do we need, let's say a wide receiver before the deadline? Because all of a sudden,

again, those teams that are going to go into cell mode, they're having hard conversations

in the next few weeks. And a bunch of those teams, by the way, that are 0 and 4 right now,

all have early buys. Like the Texans have it in week 8. The chargers have it in week 7.

Like those are the teams that you're probably looking at. And it's like, all right,

they're going to get to those points that we're going to be ready to move. These games are extraordinarily

important, shield in terms of everybody getting a gauge on where they are. Your team, as well as

the teams you're trading with, may be figuring out, we got to start thinking about next season.

Nobody's quite there yet. Nobody's burning the building down yet. But I mean, even starting

tomorrow night where the bucks have the potential fall into 0 and 5 if they lose to the cowboys,

there's a recalibration. Once you take a fifth loss because at that point, you almost need

to run the table to get in. And if you figure you're not going to, well, now let's get aggressive and

have the best things in place that we can for next season. We all have our processes. I'm sure yours

is very intriguing, actually. I would love to know the ebbs and flows of your season. Like the

different checkpoints, you know, it's like, oh, all right, it's week 9, you know, maybe it's these

two teams that suck. I don't need to catch up on what they did on the condensed games. One of

you know, there's the tankathon. All right, when am I actually going to look at the draft order

and be like, oh, this is what it actually looks like. One of them for me is going to over the cat,

looking at the teams that are windless, clicking on the free agency tab and being, of course,

saying, could they move one of these guys? I did that this morning, Tom. I did it with the

bucks. I was looking at the box going, huh, if they go 0 and 5 on Thursday night, they lose the

Dallas. They're big underdogs. Who are the guys on this roster that could get moved? I'm close to

doing it with the chargers. Maybe I'll give them one more week here. But yes, we have a bunch.

Chargers. Yeah. I mean, Cleal Mac is the obvious one, but like Denzel Perryman, you know, his

contract is up at the end of the regular season. There's a bunch of like name, but do pre,

a bunch of name veterans. It also even, I mean, some young guys like to eat to Lee Poloto. Like,

I don't think that's the type of guy you'd want to trade, but they were nowhere on a contract

extension with them. You'd probably get, I mean, that's a top shelf pass rusher. Again,

I think the values probably better if you play it out and maybe franchise thing, but who knows?

These are the players that you're going to get calls on. But if you win a game this weekend,

you're convincing yourself, hey, one in four, even the bucks, think about this. If the bucks lose

that game to the Cowboys, we're going to talk more about that game later. But if they lose to the

Cowboys on Thursday night, they're 0 and 5 and everyone's going to go, it's Todd Bulls going to

get fired. What kind of big changes sell everybody? They haven't played a division game yet. And

they are still right now only two games back of the division lead. They literally can make up the

two games against every team in their division. I think weeks seven, they play the Panthers. I think

that that's the first division game they have on the slate. So you haven't even played your own

division, which right now nobody exactly is running away with, even though the Panthers and the

Cowboys are coming off of good performances. That's why it's so hard, man. Nobody wants to,

nobody wants to go cell mode really early in the season, you know, even, even in Major League

baseball. I know you cover that closely. Like you kind of get to July before the full on. Let's

sell everybody in the NFL. You only have so many games. I think we're a few weeks away from

like a lot of deals actually happening, but those conversations absolutely ramp up soon.

I think I think it's the playoff expansion in all this force where it's easier to convince yourself

that you can stay in it. We sneak in, we get hot, Baker may feel gets healthy. We're still a

talented roster. So I understand that you work all season for the games and for the season. And so

it's hard to play like, you know, for me, it's easy to be like, oh, they suck there. Oh,

and for they should just trade everybody and get rid of all these guys, get draft effects.

If you're in the building and this is your livelihood, you kind of want to hang in

until you can. And then you figure out, all right, let's have a realistic look at where we're at.

And then as you know, there's all the other interpersonal dynamics of a, does a GM want to save

their job? Is a coach want to save their job? Do they have stability? Do they have ownership

support where they can say, okay, we can trade these guys. And even if we lose more games the

second half of the season, it's okay. Because we have a long term vision. So now all those things come

into play. Max Crosby last year, remember, he wants to play. They don't want him to play. So now

there's player relationship stuff that you're trying to deal with. So it gets very interesting for

these teams as the losses accumulate. And they try to have a realistic view of how to eventually

get their team to be a winner. We're not exactly there, but we're probably like a weaker tool

away from a lot of those conversations. Not to mention there are some of those teams right now

that we thought would probably be better. They thought they would be better. And you have to ask

yourself, this is not the NBA where you plug in one player and it can change your season or even

in baseball, you plug in the number one starter. And it's like, all right, we just, we just cleaned up one

out every five games. The NFL, there's teams have to ask like, are we close enough to really go for

it? Or do we just kind of ride this out and see where we are? I think I have a bunch of teams that

fall in that category. There are also some teams that have been pleasantly surprising so far

this season. The Raiders are three in one. The Giants are three in one. The Rams who I think

another team that everyone wants to bury on a weekly basis kind of look like themselves down

switch. How seriously are we taking all these teams? She'll get thoughts on those and more coming

up right after this. The Ringer NFL show is brought to you by Fandall. It's your most rewarding

season ever only on Fandall. How rewarding are we talking more rewarding than an 18 point come back.

Maybe even more rewarding than an old lineman catching a touchdown. And this NFL season that feeling

doesn't stop on the field. Look out for the all new Fandall rewards club exclusive offers surprises

and more. So every week, check the Fandall app to see what's waiting for you. Make this your most

rewarding season ever with Fandall. Download the app to get started. Fandall play your game.

21 plus select states or 18 plus DC or Wyoming gambling problem called 1-800-Gampler.

Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org-sashchat in Connecticut.

All right. So Wednesday before the Thursday that kicks off week five. I got there. That took me

a second there on the calendar. Shield. We've got we're at the effective quarter pole. They

ruined that by putting in the 17th game. So it's not exact anymore. But let's just call it the

quarter pole. Who are some people or some teams on your mind that you're starting to think more

seriously about if at all? Yeah. This is, you know, we're trying to fill in for Billy. Not an easy

guy to replace here, you know, with his creativity for these Wednesday segments. Tom, we're going to

call it. It's not going to be a score. We could send us one by the way from Jury. Before you

went in, he could have given us an idea, some pre-print questions. But I put it on you because that's

generally what I do on the show. Lean on shield. That's a good point, actually. Yeah, we might

have to talk to him about that. So we're calling this one, how seriously are we taking this? So

this is a chance just to maybe talk about some topics, some teams that we haven't discussed in

depth this week and then get to some other things on my mind. So the first one, how seriously Tom,

are we taking the Las Vegas Raiders as a playoff team? You know, there are teams that get off to

hot stars that you weren't expecting and they're cute little stories in September and October. But

it's like, give me a break. We're not actually expecting this team to be playing in January.

Are we? So are the Raiders that kind of team or are they more than that? You know, they go toe-to-toe

with the Chiefs last week. It's really a special team's fumble and then two huge plays by the Chiefs

offense. But I mean, I don't think anyone watched that game and we're like, the Raiders are

overmatched by this Chiefs team. So they play well last week. They're three and one. We mentioned

it. They go to New England this week. I'm telling you, I don't know, I see a huge difference between

these two teams. I think these are two evenly matched teams. Can they go in there and everyone

saying the Patriots are back? They got their Mojo back last week. But we're going to go in there

and we're going to punch them in the mouth. Then we're going to have this creative,

offensive scheming with creating explosive plays that Kubi X done every week this season.

And now all of a sudden we're four and one and you have no choice but to take us seriously. So

where are you on that kind of, you know, which end of the spectrum are you on with this Raiders team

at three and one? As long as Kirk Cousins continues to play at the level he is, which is a

pro bowl level. Make no mistake about it. It's not just numbers. He's not just the massing stats.

He's really playing that well at quarterback. The Raiders can can beat anybody in the NFL.

They hung with the Chiefs last week. They obviously got off to the three and no start.

Fell short in that game. This is really now the stretch of schedule that we all looked at and

said, okay, if the Raiders are going to be for real, they got to get through this gauntlet.

Started last week at home against the Chiefs. Then they are at New England on Sunday.

They're home against the bills, home against the Rams. All right, that's four teams that you would

have all put in the conversation before the season. Those might have been the four teams at the

best Super Bowl winning odds going into the season and your face and four in a row. If you can get

out of that stretch two and two, I don't think there's any reason that you would say the Raiders can't

continue to be competitive. Now, they're still really young in some spots. You know, they've

had an injury at the wide receiver position. Who's going to kind of step up at that position.

Brock Bowers being back is a massive deal. They didn't really run it effectively last week with

action and genty, but I think that's probably a little bit more of an anomaly. Defensively,

they spent so much money and they accidentally got back one of the best pass vouchers in the NFL

and the trade guide vetoed. They're built on defense to win right now. Offensively, you're not quite

there, but you have a quarterback who is able to keep you because he knows that offense so well,

because he can still play at that level. You look at some of the throws he's had this season.

Like Kirk is, I know that Kirk always has that reputation of like,

he's always, you know, Mr. Eight and eight and the massive stats. He gets paid tons of money,

but like, how good is he actually? He's playing that well this season. If he continues to do that,

and again, this is not an easy game. I've looked at the weather report in New England. It's been

unseasonally warm here in the Midwest that it has been out in the Northeast as well. Maybe you

skip over what could be a normally a 45 degrees of rain day in New England to shield, but I would say,

I don't think there's any reason you sit there and say the Raiders can't be that good. Are they going

to win the Super Bowl? I don't know about that, but can it be a playoff team? I mean, I think we

saw them play a potential playoff team last week and hold their own. I take them seriously as a wild

car team. I'm with you. I think they can stay in the mix. Let's see how competitive they are

over these next three games. I mean, you're right about cousins. It's sort of, it almost feels like

it's an underrated story where you consider how we were talking about Kirk cousins at the end of

last season. Anybody could have had Kirk cousins. You know, you look at some of these teams now, and it's

like, huh, I wonder if they would have, if they would like a redo of that. And he's played really

well. Like you said, he knows the system, like the back of his hand, that's what really seems to

stand out when you're watching that game is the certainty there. The run game, like you said, has not

gotten to where they probably want it to be so far. That Crossbeat trade is interesting. Tom, if you

gave both teams the opportunity for a redo right now, I almost think like the Ravens would want the

and pass Max Crossbeat and say, we'll give up those picks because we kind of would love to have

that pass rush right now. And the Raiders might say, we don't want a redo. We like how this played

out. He's back with the Raiders. We feel like we're competing for a playoffs, but I was I was

thinking about that that maybe DeCosta and the Ravens are like, huh, what if we would have just passed

him on the physical and the knee would have been fine. We might be in better shape right now.

Well, the calculus also wasn't just, can Max play now? It was, can Max play in two, three years,

and we're going to multiple first round picks. Again, I mean, it doesn't help the Trey Andrixon

shattered his finger in the first or second game and then had to have surgery and now he's out. We'll

see if he ends up being back this week. But certainly, I mean, Max has made an impact. And he walked

back in the door of a vastly improved Raiders defense to the Cousins point actually wrote about this

over the weekend. The only other team that even really called on Kirk Cousins as a starter was

the Cardinals. They were about to be in that off season long battle with Jacobi Perset over his

contract and Michael Flore, similar type of an offense. So Kirk could have walked in there,

very similar to Clint Cousins. But Clint was the one who was all over Kirk to get him to Las Vegas.

Didn't want to have to play Mendoza immediately. They had to work out the money because Kirk wasn't

going to play for free. They ended up doing a, let's just call it very creative structure where the

Falcons are paying most of the money this year and the Raiders are paying a $10 million bonus

next year. I still would not take off the table. And I know that I get killed by Raiders fans every

time I say it. I still think there's a scenario out there, Shield, where some quarterback it's heard

late October early November and somebody throws a big pick at the Raiders and they just have to

seriously think about it. If they're in the playoff chase and they're on target to go to the playoffs,

it's going to be hard. Let's see, you can offer like a second round pick for Kirk Cousins.

It was on essentially a rental deal. You do have this, you know, kind of right in the contract

as the way they structure where they have a limited window to trade them or cut them or

keep them. Pick up his 22 year, $8 million dollar option in March. But like, if you got offered a big

pick now, it's not the wildest thing in the world for a 38 year old quarterback who's probably not

your starter next season to say we'd consider it. But right now Kirk's planted at a really,

you know, really, really high level and good for him. He's also on his 11th string. You're a fully

guaranteed money, which is always my favorite stat. He's, he's Mr. Fully Guarantee.

Him and Dak Prescott. Yeah, this, this era of if you really want to just maximize your value and,

you know, that those are the blueprints for how to do it. I was just looking at all the teams and

being like, is there a team that there's a great what if for I feel like the Colts might be the

closest. If they were like, we don't want to give Daniel Jones all that money coming off the injury.

We can get Kirk cousins. He's playing inside. He's got it, you know, with a good offensive coach

and a good infrastructure around him. That's one that maybe would have been a little bit interesting

there. But it's not just cousins to your point. I mean, their defense is probably the part of the

the team that's really surprised me where there are a much more well rounded team so far than I

thought they were going to be. You look at that defensive depth chart. It's not even close to the

most talented defense in the league. In fact, probably before the season, I would have told you,

it's one of the five least talented defenses in the NFL. But the money they paid those guys in

free agency, you never know how that's going to work out. It's worked out. And Kobe Dean's been

terrific. You get Crosby back and they figured it out. I mean, good job. Their defensive coordinator

Rob Leonard, their fight state. They try stuff. They get burned by the blitz last week. But I'm like,

you know what? That's going to happen. You're not you're you're the kind of the inferior team on paper

here. It's Patrick Mahomes on the other side. Sometimes you got to try stuff. It's not always

going to work out. But I didn't have a problem with it. They're going for the win in that spot. So

yeah, I like the makeup of the team. That cousins trade thing, man. That's that's interesting. Because

I feel like if you're in the playoffs mix, unless it's something crazy, which I I think, you know,

I don't know that it's going to get to that level. I just feel like you're give your fans a

season where you make the playoffs and you feel good about it. You might regret it afterwards and

be like, Oh, we could have really used that second round pick. But for that fan base and that, you

know, that organization specifically, I feel like you don't throw away a chance. And maybe it's not

throwing away a chance. Maybe they're like, Mendoza's looks good. But that would just almost make

me a little little nervous if they made a move like that. It would have to be because you feel like

Fernando is ready to play at a similar level. He's benefited a lot, you know, during practice.

He mirrors all the curks reps on the side. He spends extra time, you know, in the meeting rooms

with Mike Sullivan, the quarterbacks coach, Andrew Milco, the OC, like he gets all kinds of like

different projects and things that they want him to work on. So like they're trying to accelerate it.

Let's be honest, like everyone's jobs in Las Vegas, ultimately, they don't depend on do you make

the playoffs? Do you win a playoff game this year with Kirk? It's just Fernando gets you where

you want to go. That's what everything is going to be tied to here. If they don't feel like it's

the right time, of course, you don't trade Kirk and put Fernando in there before he's ready.

But two months into the season, he's been taking all this guy out team reps. He's been getting the

extra work. If you feel like we can do it. And again, this is all contingent. I'm not saying they

want to trade Kirk cousins. So that's far from it. But if you got offered a big pit for a guy who

probably isn't going to be there next year and is 38 years old, you have to consider anything that

makes your team better, not just now, but in the big picture. Let's see. Let's see where they are

after this gauntlet next three weeks here. They're all in one in the gauntlet, but they've been

competitive. You get through that two and two and you're five and two approaching the midpoint

of the season. I don't think you're in the mood. Certainly the owner of Mark Davis is not going to

be in the mood to go and trade your starting quarterback. But that also means Kirk cousins is playing

at a really high level. Somebody gets hurt. Who knows? I like this. We're setting up for maybe an

interesting trade. I like the trade deadline. I like all the maneuvering, some transactions

as much as the actual games. Maybe we'll get some juice in the next few weeks next month.

I can remember you were in Philly the year that they traded Sam Bradford at the end of training

camp. His Teddy Bridgewater blew out his knee on the last day of camp. Nobody was sitting there.

The thing in Carson Wentz is going to be the starting quarterback. Except internally,

they're like Carson looks really good. We just got off from things like a first and a fourth for

Sam Bradford. It was like Carson's the weak one starter. Circumstances dictate a lot. We don't

want anybody to get hurt, but it happens. It's already happening in this season. Let's find out.

It's going to be an interesting month or so ahead. We'll say, all right. Next one here for you.

How seriously are we taking the New York Giants as potential NFC East champs? I don't know if you

look at who looks at the standings this early. All right. I looked this morning. I did. And it's

you wouldn't think it. I think if you walked up to your average football fan on the street said,

hey, who's alone in first place in the NFC East? They're not getting to the Giants.

They're not. They're not guessing that because every headline's been Jackson Darts hurt, Brian Burns

has hurt. There's going to be a lot of questions about how long you stick with with James Winston.

And my answer would be you stick with them as long as you win. I do think you take this seriously

that they can be the division champs because right now Dallas still trying to figure out their

defense. They took the big swing on Joey Porter Jr. We'll see if that stabilizes some things.

You got a bright young coordinator and Christian Parker was probably growing into the job a little

bit here. You have the Eagles who just, you know, last week, obviously the last two games hasn't been

great and blowing lead against the Rams. I still think the Eagles are a really tough team. And I'm

not counting out the commanders. That's a big game. This weekend, Jayden Daniels should be back

bar in complications in practice. This is Washington's chance to say a float in the NFC East in the

early going here. It's a home game for them. And James, like we all know what the James Winston

experience is. It's a roller coaster. He's going to make some plays. He's also going to give you

a chance to make some plays. That defense has been pretty salty. Duranty Jones learned a lot from

Brian Flores and Minnesota. I've been impressed with the young coordinators. It's a big game for them.

James, when that they go to four and one, I think you definitely have to start saying,

you're taking it seriously, even though from week to week, you may not 100% know how confident they are

in their QB1. I can't get there yet with the giants. I mean, you watch that game against the

Carden. You mentioned it. I mean, James, he was taking more chances. It was different than the

previous weeks, but I can't imagine that that guy's going to quarterback a division winner. I'll do

respect this year. It's going to be a roller coaster, but there's going to be more downs than

ups. And I feel like the rest of the roster isn't quite in position where you can make up for that.

Now, here's where I will give them credit is John Harbob before the season. You know, he did the

team meeting and everyone's make it fun of him that that got clipped and we're wondering,

well, the Ravens, you know, Ravens fans, any Ravens fans, you talk to, they're like, we're good with

this guy going, we need a new start here with a new coach. I think he's established that level of

competence that they were looking for. When you have a backup quarterback in and you're winning

games, I just don't think that happens with their previous regimes and their previous infrastructure

on that coaching staff. So I don't think it's perfect. I think there are little morsels that you like,

Arvel Reese, the rookie looks like he's a player. He's an impact. He's an impact for Arvel Reese.

Deon, even a guy like Deon Tay Banks, you know, these stories are always good sort of indicators

about a coaching staff where it's like he's kind of buried. It looks like that wasn't a good pick.

He's the cornerback. He was a first round pick in 2023. He played fewer than 50% of the snaps last

year. I think, all right, I'll play out his rookie contract. He'll go somewhere else. They throw him

in the lineup and he had a big interception at the end of that game. He had some other good plays.

It wasn't perfect. He gave up a touchdown, but like they're getting something out of him that

wasn't there previously. I think that's a good sign of the coaching staff as well. So yeah,

this is sort of a weird game in Washington. They're three and a half point underdogs, even though

they're three and one on the season. It's NFC East. It's probably going to be ugly. It's going to be

grimy. You look at some of the talent. You're like, all right, this isn't a marquee matchup

in week five, but if they're four and one, then we got to continue talking about them if they

can win that game in Washington. There's no doubt. If the commanders, they're one of those teams.

If they fall to one and four, I anticipate that they continue to compete. They're not going to

blow it up immediately, but just to have to start to look at some of the veteran players on their

roster because you're going to get calls. You're going to get calls about Stefan Diggs, who looks

excellent in the early portion of the season. Jayden Daniels, I keep saying it. Second half of

the first game, first half of the second game until he got heard. Looked like Jayden Daniels again.

So if you want to buy into the optimism, David Blow with multiple backup quarterbacks,

it seems like it's called really good games. Again, Drante Jones, what he's doing defensively,

all those different walk everybody up to the line. Don't know, let him know where the blitz is

coming from. It's been pretty effective for him. I'm not counting them out. The commanders from

my team before the season, I said, could be the one no one's talking about that I thought could

make noise. I still feel that way. They got a lot of injuries. They're banged up at a bunch of

spots. You look at their offense right now. It started when tons of went down before the season.

They've got their challenges. But again, get this win. The whole division then is clumped

at that point, right? No one's going to be better than three and two. No one's going to be worse

than two and three. Let's see how it shakes. It's a to sneaky fun game in week five where I feel

like we've got a bunch of them. I was just looking at that. You're right. If the commanders win that

game, you're right. Everybody's three and two or two and three after five games. This is the NFC

East, the new NFC South this year. Maybe I have to take on firing off next week. We'll see

how this looks better over the last one. That's a lot weaker too. The NFC Falcons might be legit,

Panther. So we'll see there. Okay. My next one for you. I got two more for you time. The next one

is how seriously are we taking this Brock Purdy as an MVP candidate? You know, the narratives

around Purdy since he first started playing for the Niners. It was, well, it's Kyle Shanahan.

Anyone can go in there and play well. And then it happened year after year after year and

there are guys injured and it seems like Purdy's still playing well and is like, well, wait a minute.

We maybe should give the quarterback a little bit more credit. They beat the Broncos last week,

which I thought was a very interesting game in that. The first half it felt like Shanahan was more like

we're not going to lose the game. We don't need we're not going to win the game in the first half.

Let's not lose the game. Broncos suffered some injuries at corner. Shanahan starts cooking.

Like you mentioned earlier, George Kiddall. That felt more like a Shanahan win than a Purdy win to

me. But the first three weeks, I would have said Purdy's playing as well as any quarterback in the

NFL. So I was looking at the odds this morning. Josh Allen, first in MVP odds, Brock Purdy, number two.

And he's got this big game against Seattle coming up this weekend where they've got more of

their guys than they had in the playoffs last year. I feel like if Purdy plays well in this game

and the 49er speed to see offs, this is going to be a conversation a lot of people are having next week.

Brock, when healthy is the most efficient quarterback in NFL history. And that is a statistical fact.

If he had enough qualifying starts, he would be number one by far in pass or any. He leads the NFL

this season in pass or any. And I know that that's not a complete quarterback statistic because of

the value that Josh Allen brings in terms of being a runner. Brock can make things happen with his

legs when he needs to as well. And it's not everything within the structure of the Shanahan system,

although he's very, very good at that. It's also those things he can make happen outside of

structure. The only reason that Brock Purdy shouldn't be in the MVP race this season is if he gets hurt.

He's gotten hurt basically every season of his career and he's missed time. If he doesn't do that,

he plays all 17 games, it finishes with a 126 pass or any. I find it hard to believe that he's not

right there with those other guys. And then you get into the subjectivity of the voting. And what are

we actually basing it on? When I had a vote for those awards, I would basically pull people in the

league and let them cast the vote for me because I ultimately don't know what I'm looking at. They do.

There's other people who just vote based on their gut or vote based on, you know, whatever highlight

real they saw. And everyone gets to do that. I don't think there's any, you know, real ground rules

that the AP has other than, you know, you can't vote for like non-football stuff like you don't like a

guy or his politics or whatever. You can't vote against him for that. Beyond that, you can vote for

whoever you want. And then we would see, you know, if Josh Allen finishes the season like Josh

Allen and not like, you know, some of the bumps you've seen over the last two weeks, you know, he's

probably just going to get if you're on the fence, you mean Josh Allen because he's Josh Allen. But Brock,

what he does, it's unmatched in the entire NFL. His only issue is having his career, his health.

So far this season, he is healthy. I got chance to talk with him in Australia before they play the

Rams in week one. He's just, he's very confident. He's very comfortable in his skin. He's going back

a little bit to just be very intentional about being coachable and getting some things maybe grounded

back that might have gotten away from him. But the past couple of years, he looks awesome so far.

So I absolutely have taken seriously the idea of him as an MVP candidate.

It's been a pretty predictable award over the years to your point. You know, people vote on different

things. But it usually last year was an exception. But usually it's just like, look at the one

in the two seat in each conference. And who's the best quarterback out of those four teams? I mean,

real or you know, that's really what it has come down to most of the time over the last 10, 20 years

here. They're one of three undefeated teams here. And if they win the NFC West, no one's going to look

at that and go, they want a bad division. It's going to be like, whoa, they'd be, be out two of the

best teams in the entire NFL to win that division. And the numbers are just going to be there for

Pertie. I mean, they're there. They're every single year. It's actually really funny. If you

do anytime I do some type of search and I go deep on the nerd stats as you know, and I'm looking

last 10 years. And it's like, Pertie, Pertie, Pertie, you know, Aaron Rogers MVP season.

Pertie. And he just looked at like my homes, you know, and what was that 2019 Pertie. It's like,

these are the seasons just in terms of efficiency, even just EPA last 10 years, you know,

his EPA through the first four weeks of the season is the highest of any quarterback in the last 10

seasons. Yeah, it's crazy. You can't look anything out without saying Brock Pertie's name. So

statistically, analytically, I think he passes the eye test for sure. I think he's just gotten

better. Like you said, he's gotten more comfortable. So big spot for him against the Seahawks. That's

going to be really interesting to see how Shanahan approaches it and how well Pertie's able to play

against that Seahawks defense. All right. I got one last one for you here. Tom.

All right.

For how seriously are we taking the idea that the Rams are now the team we expected them to be? We've

had a roller coaster. You and Australia make they make a fun of himself for the travel plans.

The Garrett injury, the Puka Nikoa injury last week wild game against the Eagles. They're two and two.

Yet I think there's a case that you look at. I've been like, of course, they're the best team.

In the NFL or if you're a hater, you could look it up and go give me a break. If they don't get

like a fourth and two stop in that game against the Eagles last week, they're one and three. And

their team we're talking about panicking about. So where are you on that range with this Rams team that

came into the season with so much hype? It's still up and down for me. I'm not taking seriously

that the Rams are what the general public thought where they were by far the best odds when the

Super Bowl. Everyone was like, well, they basically loaded up. It's like the Dodgers and there's

why even not why I have a season. But basically like there's so much better and all these things.

They're not there right now. The best teams in the NFL dominate inferior opponents.

The Rams did dominate the Giants. I'll be at in a game where Jackson Dirt went down and

like the whole soul of the Giants was crushed. And James Winston looked like he had just learned

to throw a flip all that day. They played a close game against the Broncos and lost. They played

a close game against the Eagles and lost. And they got beat pretty soundly, especially in the

second half against the 49ers in week one. Like in order to say the Rams are what we thought they

would be. And again, I'm using the Royal Wee, not the two of us. They got to come out and like

beat up on a on a good team. You know, they got to get like a strong start to finish win against

the bills, for instance, on Monday night. After that, the Cardinals, like you should blow up the

Cardinals. You should win ad Vegas. You should beat up on the Chargers. You should beat up frankly

on the commanders and the Cardinals again. Like that's the rest of their schedule before the

buy-sheel. After this week, they got the bills. And then it's Cardinals Raiders. Again, Raiders,

three and one taking nothing away from the O and four Chargers, the one and three commanders,

the one and three Cardinals. That's your schedule. So if they are now winning those games by 20 points

and playing in all facets of the game, if Puka continues to stay healthy, which is a lot going

on in that situation. I know he visited specialists. Everybody agreed he can continue to play,

but those groin injuries or a doctor or whatever they are, pre-Hernia or Hernia. Those make me nervous

because you're one weird thing away from happening. That's like it's surgery in its eight weeks.

As long as they're healthy, and at some point you get miles back, they got a chance to be that team.

Right now, I think as much as anything, you are seen the Matthew Stafford and Sean McVey remain

among the best at their respective jobs in the NFL because when the pressure is on and you're

playing these tight games, you're down. They found a way to rally against the Eagles. They found a

way to keep everybody playing and to adjust and come back at the end. That's coaching and quarterback

play in terms of the whole team together. Let's see, starting Monday night against the bills,

and then in that stretch of games you would think on paper, the ranch would be winning all these.

Let's see what they look like and I'll give you more of a sound verdict by the by.

I think I'm on the other side a little bit. I think I feel great about them.

I just look, I feel like they've had all those things you mentioned have gone against them

or have not gone their way, but I still watch them every week and I'm like, this is a great team.

They outgain the giants by 300 yards. They outgain the Broncos by 225 yards. They outgain the Eagles

by 244 yards. There's only been seven games this year where a team has outgain its opponent by 200.

Three of those seven have been the Rams. Now, the things on the margins make me nervous time and

the special teams. I don't understand with these Sean McVeigh Rams, why it seems to be an issue

every year. I mean, even last week, that could have been the thing that caused them the game.

So if I'm in that building, I'm like, everybody take a deep breath, but Sean, what's our plan

for figuring out special teams? We do not want to get into a playoff game or a big game against

the Seahawks or the 49ers or a high leverage game in week 17 or week 18 and we lose that game

because of special teams. So I think everything else, I feel really good about you mentioned

Stafford Nakuwa, Kyron Williams is playing the best football of his career. I mean, his touch down

run last week was incredible. He's been fantastic. You know what you're getting from McVeigh.

You know what you're getting from Stafford. Even defensively without Miles Garrett. I mean,

Chris Shula had the Eagles headspin last week with some of his blitzes and pressures and

simulated pressures. I think he's done a good job with the injuries he's had on that side of the

ball. So I like, I think they're about to go on a run. It's basically what I'm about to say.

You gave the schedule. We'll see where I land on that game against the Bills Monday night, but

I think if you look at like the next six weeks or so, I think they're going to go on a run.

I think they're going to get Garrett back. I think we're going to get to December and the hype that

this team had coming into the season is going to be there. Just check out those special teams. Sean,

if you're listening, that's all I'm saying. I do think that bringing in above event for

on will pay dividends over time. Sean cycled through so many different coordinators in this time

there. There is, you know, it's not quite like offensive defense, but there are still different

schemes and you're trying to figure out your new personnel. I anticipate they'll get better

in that area. It's just the number one concern with me with the Rams. I said this before the season.

I said after Miles went on, I heard it's just when you have an older team. How healthy can you

stay and also positive 49ers in their own division? How healthy are those older star players can

stay if the Rams can get guys back as opposed to losing them? Obviously, that'll be a huge positive

for them moving forward. We've got a game Thursday night kick of the thing off. It's the Bucks

and the Cowboys. It's more compelling than you think. Play live. That's Bucks at Cowboys. Thursday

night football kicking off week five. Sheel. I'm not in the camp of, you know, it's win or everyone gets

fired in Tampa. The Glazers and their three decades of ownership have never fired a coach

in season. They haven't played a division game yet. They're playing with an undrafted rookie

backup quarterback, but certainly something has to change if you fall to 0 and 5. So that makes this

a particularly important game ahead of a minibuy. It'll feel a lot different one in four than it

would at 0 and 5. And for the Cowboys, it's a big game too. It feels like there have been times.

And this is strictly anecdotal, but it feels like there have been times through the years. Sheel,

where the Cowboys in particular have been subject to that low game where team comes in and they've

got a bad record. I think back to the game, the Cowboys play this is prior regime, but they played

against the Broncos at home. And it was like they were heavy favorites and like Javante Williams

for ants like 150 yards and they just blew their doors off. Thursdays are always weird. I kind of

wondered like the Cowboys, especially defensively like are they fully ready to go? The offense looked

awesome, especially CD Lam. Last week, I think it's a sneaky good game because the Bucks absolutely

know what's on the line. Bakers should be back in the relatively new future. What do you make of it?

Bucks were competitive last week against the Packers. They're in that game to the end. I struggle with

this Bucks team because if you look at it, yes, they're owing for they're playing a backup quarterback.

They've been a disappointment this year. On the other hand, I feel like some of the excuses are

relevant with the Bucks. You know, they four one score games. They're not getting blown out in any of

these games. They've lost four games by a total of 20 points. They're in all of these games.

You have an injury to your starting quarterback. It's just like they like it doesn't look to me like

a poorly coached team. I know the instinct is to just look at it and go, oh, they're going to be

all in five. They're disappointing Todd balls. It's a short week. Yeah, time before the next week.

Now's the time to pull the plug. I don't look at it and go. They're losing because the coaching staff

is doing a bad job. I actually think their defense has played pretty well. If you look at some of

the numbers, it backs it up that they've been one of the more surprising units in the NFL. It's

like offensively, what do you kind of expect when you lose your backup quarterback and you're starting

an undrafted free agent here who I don't think was terrible. You know, he scrambled a little bit.

He baits and plays. He's going to make mistakes that you expect from a rookie undrafted free agent.

So I don't like I'm hesitant to pull the plug on too early because of what you said earlier about

the schedule and it's the NFC South that can you just hang in there. So I'm with you. I don't think

even if they lose this game, it's not like we're trading everybody. We're looking ahead to next

season. I don't think that's how they operate. I don't think that's how they built the roster.

You just pay Baker Mayfield, you know, all that money. It's not like you're looking ahead to drafting

a quarterback or anything. So I think you want to see some signs of life here. It'd be great if you

can steal a win. Even if you can't, I don't think there are team that's going to punt on their season.

It might sound crazy, but even if they go 0 and 5, I don't think they're going to look at it and say,

all right, we're looking ahead to 2027. I was a guarantee there's no one more pissed off right now

than Baker Mayfield. Not only that they're 0 and 4, but that he's not able to play. Did he

got hurt on that freaky thing where he's scrambling around trying to make something happen at the end

of the Minnesota game? He got the stitches out of his thumb on Monday. I know that they said minimum

three weeks. It could be up to six. I'm just telling you, Baker and his mind wants to beat the timeline.

The doctors are going to have their say, but Baker will absolutely in my mind. He's got to regain

the grip strength. Okay, there's all these kind of functional things, but he's going to push to

try to be out there the next game. So find a way just to steal this one in Dallas where no one's

giving you a chance. I haven't looked at what the line is, but it can't be favorable. Eight and a half.

Eight and a half big underdogs. Yeah. I, I, you know, you're, you're huge underdogs in the game.

No one's expecting you to give a fight. But again, Thursdays are weird games, man. Like,

there's just, there's different things about it. I don't know how quickly the defense now

integrating Joey Porter, Jr. How quickly or they ramping him up. He played a couple dozen

snaps last week. Can he make the difference? Can they cover up just some of those things that

have been happily and complicated scheme? You know, it's the, it's basically the Vic Fangio scheme.

The Christian parker is implemented and that's not always easy for everyone to adapt to. So how

quickly can they clean those things up? Does the kind of chaos? You said there were some scrambling

from Jalen Daniels. That's the biggest thing. He's got a big arm too. But the number one thing he

can do is just kind of create things. You put him out there, you give him a play. That may or may not

be how the play actually goes. And he's going to try to create something with his legs. That can

sometimes be good because the defense is playing you to stop the player running, not the off schedule

stuff that the quarterbacks do. But you know, the Ameka Bukas of the world, Bucky Irvings,

like those guys have to step up. The Jalen Macmillan loss was a was a big deal. That was probably

depending on you talked to that might have been the best receiver on their team. So Chris Godwin,

a Bukat step up and makes some plays. The offensive line hasn't been at their best. Cody

Malk still looks like he's, you know, coming off of an injury. Everybody's got to play better.

But you got one chance to do this and rather than sitting for 10 days and wondering who's going to

get fired and we're all in five. What do we do now? Like get the win on the short. We get to one

in four. Just kind of like the Patriots and Buffalo last week where it's a huge exhale. If you can

just find a way as unlikely as it seems, regardless of a line, just find a way to get a win.

And that Cowboys defense. I mean, they're bottom three in every metric. There are signs of life

here and there. And I'm with you. I think even if you look at Vic Fandjo's first season in Miami,

and Philadelphia, that first month wasn't pretty in either spot. It does take time to learn your

personnel and figure it out. But that's a break of getting to face them here in week five. And so

it's a short week. Your quarterback, like you said, can make those second reaction plays.

I think there's a chance they could move the football a little bit and keep this one close. The

Joey Porter Jr. thing is very interesting to me. They feel like a lot of eggs in the basket. If he's

going to help fix a lot of things and get to Ron Blandon a different role on this defense. And it's

going to fix things for this defense. You know, they got him in there right away last week. We'll

see how many snaps he plays this week. They just need that defense to be average. I've said you've

heard me say it a million times because that offense is cooking. I mean, they looked unbelievable

last week. They're one of the best offenses in the NFL. They're left tackle Tyler Geiten is kind

of one of these making the leap type guys. It feels like this year where he's playing really good

football for them. Their best offensive lineman Tyler Smith hasn't even played yet. They're going to

get him back healthy at some point. So yeah, if the Cowboys, you know, we talked about the

Bucks end of it. If the Cowboys can come in here and just score 35, we're going to be talking about

them as though they definitely are the team to be in the NFC East here. So yeah, entertaining.

You know, Cowboys offense is fun to watch. And Bucks have a quarterback. I think people are going

to find relatively entertaining. Let's see if we regret saying that when we do our show on Friday.

But I think he can do some things. Todd Bolzes and just going to sit back and say,

let's just chill out and play some shell zone. Now he's going to get after you. So the elements,

the schematic elements of this game. I don't I'm not sure it's going to be close. I think it could

be close, but the schematic elements at least should provide for some entertainment.

We'll break down that game on this show on Friday. We got the ringer 107 picks. We had our main

characters head into the Sunday of week five. And who knows, maybe we even have Billy Gill.

unclear. We will effort details on if he's not that. Well, effort details on the type of case.

If he's actually on the jury, is he an alternate? Whatever we can legally tell you about the fate

and the situation surrounding Billy Gill, we will bring you those updates on Friday. Thank you

to everybody for watching and listening to this episode. Thanks, our Junena,

Crystal, team behind scenes. We're sheel. I'm Tom. See you.

21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas,

star casino or 18 plus and present in DC or Wyoming gambling problem called 1 800 gambler or 1 800

my reset call 1 888 789 777 777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org

in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800 327 50 50 for 24 7 support in

Massachusetts or call 1 877 8 hope and why or text hope and why in New York for Louisiana call 1 877 770 7867