Emma Hayes on Her Leadership Philosophy and Building a Winning Culture: Men in Blazers 10/08/26

The one question I get most after all that football memory making we experienced across

America this summer is, how do I keep the magic going?

Let's start by saying, articulate what you love the most and then build on it.

First that, find a team that will most probably break your heart and then add all the supporting

necessities to build your weekend tradition, the key to so many of mine.

It's Walmart, the place that has it all, the snacks, the coffee, the pies.

You can also get the TV at Walmart, the hoodie to wear on your couch,

get the couch if you need it and wait, it gets better.

Because they're expressed delivery can get it right to your door so you're all set for kickoff.

Whatever you match they need, you can find them at Walmart.com slash soccer.

Delivery-tombing varies by order size, traffic, weather and demand, subject to availability fees and

terms apply.

You're listening to the Men in Blazers media network suboptimal radio.

America brings the best out in me.

She glams for herself up in America.

I'm like, thank God, I'm so glad I can actually get my hair done and gained them and feel good.

I love the NWC and the WNBA having fit check.

I love this.

That whole sense of like, let's lift each other up, let's build each other up,

let's look after each other.

That works for me.

I'm a happier person with that.

My guest today in the second part of a two-part conversation last time.

We dug into a leadership process now.

We'll learn about a leadership philosophy.

It's a joy to welcome back the winningest coach ever to lead the US team into a world cup.

Dermahaze.

Ah, you know, I am the lucky one here just so we clear.

I'm the lucky one to be in this job.

We are lucky to have you more than I can say.

This incredible episode is presented by Bank of America, the official bank of US Soccer.

Let's start with the obvious football teams who are about culture.

Apparently, each strategy for breakfast.

You know about winning cultures.

If you were to define the ingredients of any winning team,

what are they, the tenets, your values?

You need a team, first of all.

You can't win anything alone, but you need a team of a sniven that you've got to be like-minded.

I always say about teams is we all want the same thing.

We might bring something different to it, but we're all seeking to do the same thing.

And I think surrounding ourselves with that whole notion that we're on a collective journey

to do that same thing, then it's about creating the right boundaries, the right behaviors,

the right values in that environment so that we can all co-exist.

No, everybody loves each other or they're the best of friends,

but we've got a common goal and reminding each and every one of that common goal and making it

about that common goal, keeping that common thread central to everything, I think is the most important thing.

Been a modern football manager.

The man so much from one person, really more than one person can do.

There's got to be a tactician, master motivator, sport scientist, psychologist, data analyst,

you know, comms, PR expert, set piece, koo-ru, on and on and on.

No one can do it all, everybody has a team, you have a great team, you talk about it often.

How do you define the major role that you play?

Honestly, I said when I was coached in Chelsea, it was like I was the mayor of London.

I said when I come to the US, I feel like the president.

And by that, I mean, it's a little bit like being a CEO without, I'd prefer the head contractor

of a beautiful build, like a Santiago Calatrava build, like I love Calatrava, it's my favourite architect.

Putting something together of that ilk, of that quality, it takes more than your drawings,

and you have to have everything from the right builders to the right project managers,

to the right financial team around. You really are so wholly reliant in my case on about 100 to

150 people to make sure the team functions effectively, because it isn't just setting a team up to

go and perform with the right tactics and the right mindset, that's one element of it.

But getting everything right operationally from the cadence leading into games, to the right hotels,

to the right meal times, the right space that you create for people to be the most authentic selves,

it's the level of detail that's required to be able to get the elite to perform.

And it's not about having access, I don't mean that.

I work for a large federation that has a big remit with a lot of teams.

So being able to join everything up in the most interconnected way, a weaving web

requires skill and execution from people who are far more intelligent than I am.

Project managers, I have program managers that are helping to make sure

the boat goes fast stuff and that everybody can get on that boat and be in a position to excel and

perform. It is highly orchestrated, highly functioning machines that end up being the most effective

teams from my perspective, but that requires unbelievable coordination. The stuff people don't see,

people don't see this stuff. As a CEO, how many people do you see reporting into it?

I mean effectively what I have learned is you need to have short lines. You can't have,

I need to have short lines of people into me, so a few. And there will might be, I like to work

to flat structures, I don't believe in hierarch organizations. You need to have role clarity,

that role clarity for each and everybody in their jobs is essential, roles and responsibilities

in terms of, and it's not just, here's your list of roles and responsibilities in your job

job descriptions. No, it has to be in its entirety. What's your role when the team are warming up?

What's your role when the team are in half time? Which seat are you sitting in when we play away

from home? Which seat you on in the bus? Which seat you on in the plane? You know why? Because

you can't have chaos. It has to be completely clear what everybody's role and responsibility

and functions are in every facet to make sure that the team can perform without causing any

mayhem. And what I have found, and it's the same of coaching, like people think when you coach

the elite, you know, you just get a great group of players, you don't, you don't have to do too much

room. What I have learned about coaching the best is that you need to be detailed, so detailed,

because the freedom camp comes in the framework. That's when players can come alive when everything's

clear. Same with people you work with, long as they're clear on what, what, where their boundaries are,

what their role is, it doesn't create any doubt. And I spend a lot of time with, with our staff

talking about Michelin's staff services, always. We are back of house. That is what we do.

We make sure that by the time that meal hits their play, that they just, they just experience

an unbelievable dish. What goes on in that background, I haven't got a clue. They don't, they don't

need to know. But what they, they do not will not see is us contributing to anything that detracts

and takes them away from what they need to focus on, which is their game. Like I said, I work in

a highly detailed operation. And I'm very proud of that. And I'm very proud of the people that

that drive and lead that alongside all of the other amazing people I work with, because they

ensure that the team are in a position that once they cross the right line, they can perform,

because everything else has been taken care of. So like that, the framework and the freedom within

the framework. And I've got two questions that come from that. I understand the detail and the

culture and the back of house and the setting of it. That's an international coach. You only have

that team with you for search, fleeting periods, couple of training sessions and then slam into a

game. How difficult is that for you compared to the club in terms of in greening your values,

your mantras? Be a lead in your delivery, maximize every situation you have, maximize every moment.

Just before they get in, when they get in, be intentional with every single detail.

You don't have a second to waste. If you've got a five minute meeting with that player,

what exactly are you trying to get from that five minutes? If you have a pitch session,

three pitch sessions in advance of one game, how do we maximize oversight of those three pitch

sessions, not just the interactions, but the way in which we can share the most important things with

the players in a myriad of different ways? The one question I get most after all that football memory

making we experienced across America this summer is, how do I keep the magic going? At start by

saying, articulate what you love the most and then build on it. First, find the team that will

most probably break your heart and then add all the supporting necessities to build your weekend

tradition. The key to so many of mine is Walmart. The place that has it all, the snacks, the coffee,

the pies. You can also get the TV at Walmart, the hoodie to wear on your couch, get the couch if

you need it and wait, it gets better because they're expressed delivery can get it right to your door

so you're all set for kick off. Whatever you match, they need, I can find them at Walmart.com

slash soccer delivery, timing varies by order size, traffic, weather and demand, subject to a

availability fees in terms of ploy. With the American Express Platinum Card, I can unlock experiences

like no other. Since I'm always booking my next trip, I'd love that I can earn points on travel.

Plus, I get a resi benefit so you know I'm hitting the restaurants everyone's talking about.

And you can find out your welcome offer after you apply, which could be as high as 175,000 points.

For experiences like no other, there's nothing like platinum. Learn more at americanexpress.com slash

explorer dash platinum terms apply.

It's football coaching like the NFL where you Emma Hayes is coach are watching the players live

out everything you were pre planned and talked to them about like you're like Sean McVey and they

are just absolutely drilled knowing every move they'll make. Or is it like watching jazz

greats improvise where you are as surprised and delighted by what the players decide to do

of their own free will. I'd say there'd be a combination of both of them, but this is an

American football and this is in basketball. We don't get the volume of time out. It's not as

orchestrated. There are orchestrated moments and they might come in the dead ball situations or

they might come in the set piece situations. But when it comes to seeing the creative elements of the

game you have to create situations where you develop the muscle memories for the players to

understand what a rotation looks like in that framework. But no, you can't just impose it because

you've taught it well. They have to kinesthetic experience it from a training capacity. They then

have to feel it in the game. They have to work through their connections and their cohesions with

players and you can't do that if you've always got multiple changes all the time. That's why I

say to you team. You have to develop teams that win and sometimes those teams can't have a million

line changes because they've got to build the connections and the relationships. It's complex.

My job is to constantly provide solutions. Here's a solution to what the team is. I know team

know you're going to talk about game models or principles of play. I thought about principles.

But really, if we face some of these, these are some of the solutions. But you have to make the

decision because I can't go time out. Hey, listen, did you see the situation where we had a 3v2

over there? This is how we solve it. Play number 89. You can't do that in football. You can't do

that in soccer. Sorry. You can't. But you have to be in a position quite quickly to know that.

All right, there's a quick wall break. I've got two minutes. I've got to impart the right decision

there. Then we've got half time. Then I've got maximum of six minutes to deal with attacking,

defending, restarts. They've got a P. Brush their hair. Get out of their system. What they need to

and put them in the framework to go into the second half while all the things are going on.

There we have a stuff that's happening and do you really do it in such a calm way so that

players feel confident to go and do that. What I've learned about football is pictures just

change all the time and you think, oh, I've all this one. Yeah, they've created a different problem

there and it never, ever looks the same when you are down on the pitch to when you are up there. Never.

You feel it differently. You smell it differently. I know that other sports put coaches up there.

Like rugby. I'm like, you know what they're so brave about doing that. But you can't in football.

I think as a head coach, what you have to do is make sure you got a system and a chain

alongside you so that you're getting the correct information down so that you can make the next

decision. I love that part of the job. This is my favorite part of the job. I love this part on

the pitch. I love that bit when it's like the rest of it's done. Now I get the focus on this

and now I trust my processes and the system around me and the people around me, the instinct and

then the wisdom of being in that arena enough times to go, no, we do this. Come on, let's go.

Constant, constant problem solving. When you're talking about your players and thinking about

the career, how do you think of yourself in your role in relationship to those players? You

are a conclft. Famously said he'd be his player's friend, but not their best friend. How do you define it?

Oh, you know what? That's a good question. I think it probably has changed at many points. But

sometimes I'm their life coach. Sometimes I'm their auntie. The older players I could say, yeah,

they could be one of their friends, but I also feel such responsibility of like, you know what?

I've got to help you with not just the football bit that you don't need as much support as the

20-year-old needs, but like I think about how am I going to help you transition from your playing

career to whatever your next life is. I feel like I'm different things for different people.

Sometimes, you know, some can maybe really say, sometimes they can make me laugh like hilariously,

so some can frustrate me. Some, I don't even know how to talk too properly and have to work really

hard at it. Some, the conversation just flows. It's so different. And that's why I've had to work so

hard at leadership because you think about it. You're like, well, it's easy when you have to

connect with people that are like you or you can do it easily, but how do I do it with someone who's

not like me? And how do I do it with someone who's really, really introverted and it's not really

obvious or they stay quite hidden? No, that's, oh, I don't see him that often. How am I going to do that?

And I'm always thinking about how can I meet them where they are and be, and I'm an empath.

That takes a lot of work of constant. Sometimes I could be in camp. I'll be like, you know,

what, I haven't given any attention to play around, play around, and I'm, and it'll keep me up at

night, but I'll just say a little note. And then I'll think about how can I do something so small?

And sometimes it might even be with my throat killing me because I've been screaming at the game

the night before. And I've learned so much from conductors. Musical conductors?

Oh yeah, like I met this amazing conductor from the Sydney Philharmonic Orchestra.

And Ben, he, he taught me so much about hand signals and silent signals and how,

because I was like, how do you know if your musicians are not having a great day? And how do you

tell them to step up a level? We can't actually say it. And he taught me a lot about hand

signaling and how to smile and how to, you can talk with certain action, open palm actions and,

you know, and, and certain things. I was like, oh my god, I love this. And some days I'll just be like,

it's so true. By the way, weirdly, doing these interviews remotely, I've learned that like if you

gesture with your hands, you can help people feel better and get more. Absolutely.

I mean, it is remarkable. Always in the YouTube comments, people are like, why are you always doing

this? And there's a reason, like doing this does it genuinely, three thousands of miles,

gets more out of cold Palmer. And it is. Your conductor is totally right. But I'm fascinated.

You've talked about leadership. Leadership is not universal principles. Leadership is and can be

in great moments personalized. I want to ask you about this. We could do a whole show on this.

There's several new mums on the squad. Mass ones. So fear Wilson, the great limbian dole though,

you're also a mum. So you're a year old son, Harry. Do you have a different connection to the

mums as you're trying to motivate and also coordinate with parents of newborns? Well, I think one

thing's for sure. I know what they're going through. I can see the gushing connection between them

and their baby and I can completely relate to that. I can also see when they haven't had any sleep.

I can also see when they are at the end of their tevere and they do need little five minute time

out. I can feel those things and I can think of even when crystal during the Olympics. Crystal dumb.

Yeah, and you know, young Marcel running around like I could totally connect because Harry and

him were a lot closer in age than say Gigi and Josie. And though I haven't met Lin's little

and yet, I'm sure I will. Listen, I'm at a stage of my life where I'm closer to their parents age.

And so so often when I remember when I went to a Gotham game recently, as I was going into the stadium,

someone said to me, all the mums are in there. It's Mother's Day. They're all having a drink in the

Bar Rose's, Rose's parents are in there with doing their little little yard of that, whatever,

these little shockers they quite don't know what it was. And Denise was like, oh no, I can't do that.

And I said, come on, this guy is surprised that parents and I loved it. I went in and all the parents

from from Gotham were there like from Jaden's parents, Tien's parents, Emily Sonny, Rose

of I was loving it. I was like, whoa. And it felt like I was just going into my age group.

And it was easy. Like it was it was dead easy. So I feel like I'm closer to being a grand parent age

in many regards when I see them with their litlands. I feel very maternal when I'm around the players.

And you know, you asked about that role. Sometimes I've always thought that I'm like, look,

your parents have put your trust in me. Like you're their babies. Because that's all I think

like it's like you're their babies. You might be their big girls now, but you're their babies.

And they trust me to look after you. And that's that's what I'm happy doing.

Did Rose LaVelle's parents introduce you to their fireball ritual? Oh my god. Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah,

I had one. Can we get a quick thumbs up thumbs down on the fireball? I mean, whoa,

it was powerful. It was what I couldn't get out of. It was one of them was like, oh, no.

I couldn't get out. Well, Tien's mum was there. Emily Sonny's mum and Jaden's mum was there.

Oh, okay. But I love seeing them. And their players were hugely embarrassed. They were like,

oh my goodness. Like, I was like, oh, players are just children too. Yeah. Your communication is

so bloody good. Whenever I hear one of your talks, I mean, it's just it is energising. It is deeply

motivating. You are, you know, you are. You are master motivator. How much of what you say is

rehearsed? How much of it is off the cuff, pure and curr Emma? Where's it all come from?

There no rehearsal. Definitely not. I think of course, when you grow up, especially coaching in

England and you're you're you're you're having to watch your every clickbait word. You do have to

be mindful of what you say and how you say it. But what I love about working in America and I've

said this before, I love working with the media across America is there's such thoughtful

questions to get underneath the team instead of just searching for clickbait. And if you know

your onions and you know your staff and you share the right information and be authentic with it,

then more often than not, people are trying to write the right story. And I just sort of feel like

I'm getting paid to do the thing I love the most. So you're asking me questions about my hobby.

Like what do you do Emma when you're not coaching watching football? Sometimes I feel guilty about it.

I'm like you know I get to Sunday evening and I'm like oh I've already been through about eight games

and sometimes they come having to like I might be even a Harry's football somewhere and I'd be like

also early kick off but just have a quick quick glimpse. I love watching football. I love talking

about football. It's my passion. It's everything and it's so crazy. I can't wait to get to the weekend.

I mean it's my job but I cannot wait for the weekend and that passion is clearly so that's it.

Or it's only the deep passion. Yeah definitely. It's what is driving you. Mistakes. Everybody makes them.

How should leaders handle them and can you turn them into positives? Oh yeah gosh. Of course

you make them all the time. Make them daily but I think it's having processes

with the right self-reflection. I think you have to be so true to yourself about those things

to be able to say, send check. Did I handle that very well? Maybe not. Could I have done it a different

way? Yes. Should I own that? Yeah, own it. Well own it then. And so often sometimes it's a lot

better to go, hey listen hands up. I didn't do that very well. I apologize for that. I'll do

I'll be conscious of that. I just want you to know I didn't I didn't do that very well and I work

on that. And I think you have to role model that behave if you want it from others. One,

two, we're all far from perfect. There'll be many moments. I'm like I didn't spot that.

Killing myself. I didn't spot it. I'm human but I mean what did I get wrong? That's why I believe

in processes. What did I get wrong in the chain? Was it as simple as I didn't hear it right? I

didn't see it right. I didn't I didn't make my decision quickly enough. And we're also human

too. There's going to be times you're going to back to back to back moments and sometimes you just

thought, oh my brain is not as fresh. And you do make mistakes but that's why I think you need,

it's about teams of people and it's about collective and it's about making sure we've got each

others backs. Like I love that part of it. I always say when people say, what's sort of dressing

room do you want to be with your staff and players? I'm like the one where I can walk out. I don't

feel a blade in my back. That's that's some of the environments I work in where I feel they've got

me and I've got them and we're all together on that and you know agree on everything. It's

can be up and down but like we're family. That's what I think is most important.

What are you doing? It works clearly. Inalchably, you won 16 trophies in a dozen years with Chelsea.

You took this job. You won the Olympic gold. What culturally have you had to shift between coaching

predominantly British cultures in the locker room to now coaching Americans? Oh that's a really good

question. Listen, I think there is a much softer side to coaching in America. The really is and

it allowed me to lean into more of my authentic self. People say why do you? She glams for herself up

in America. I'm like thank god. I'm so glad I can actually get my hair done and gained them

and feel good and being a culture where they're like yeah this is great because we and I love that

about when I love the NWC and the WN NBA having. I think it was cool. You know, one game day when

they have the fit fit check. I love this. Let's lift each other up. Let's build each other up.

Let's look after each other. America brings the best out in me and you and I have had this

conversation so many times. I just love working in the culture because I feel like I can be myself

that works for me. I'm a happier person with that. Let's bring that love. World needs more of that.

Yeah definitely. It is time to ask some questions from my friends at the Bank of America.

US soccer, soccer forward and Bank of America have partnered to help make soccer accessible

to every school across the country through soccer at schools. It's an incredible program. M.A.E.

What benefits do you think that students can get at young ages by playing soccer?

I mean the lifelong ones, the most important ones, the memory building, the experience of having

football for the first time in a profound way and everything that comes with that, whether it's

being on a team, whether it's just experiencing that sport, like it sits in my mind, like that 5, 6, 7

year old where I'm like, oh, football in schools, like that's where the foundational memories are

created. Who is the first coach you had who taught you something that you still use in your life

today? I'd say two, Sue Crane and Tony Milton and the thing they taught me the most was the

importance of community and being local and be proud to represent that. I think playing

a local level where it would be school or my local youth clubs in local tournaments, like

gave me that real sense of identity that now I talk about they are my fondest memories in football

the earliest ones. Your community with joy and pride, soccer teaches us more than we think.

So raise your hand to help bring soccer to schools at biave.com slash soccer at schools.

M.A.E. is last one for you, a quick fire one. I'm going to list some coaches or leaders you've

talked about who you admire. In a short burst, can you say what you've taken from each of them

in your own career? Murat Jo Potschertino. Love passion. Good barbecue methods. I'm a

Tottenham Alsberg fan. He's given me my greatest memories. Thomas Tuchel. Diagonality. How to see

football in a way that he may watching him coach, he makes sessions so intense but so much fun

and he is such a great thinker or a really articulate guy. Love Thomas.

Iconic South Carolina game cocks coach Dawn Staley. I mean, I don't know how to talk about

Dawn without thinking about the number of bracelets and necklaces and the LV that she wears like

she's on her footchecks, always on point. Dawn has been there, seen it, done it. I've traveled

Japan with Dawn. She is a badass brilliant brilliant coach. Cyrillic Spurgus. Oh my goodness.

To think that the first text I got are when we won Olympic gold was from Cyrillic says everything

about that man. He said he was sat in a bar in New York and he'd just seen us win and he told me

how proud he was with me. It was like you're Cyrillic Spurgus and women's football probably hasn't

been in your world but that shows how modern you really are. Tony DeChikay, USIcon. Bill family.

Those players that played for him, they loved him. He knew how to bring the best out of people.

Yes, extremely competitive and he's demonstrated that beyond just the senior team. He definitely

did that at the under 20s and also in his pro career. But what a great guy who built the right

cultures. And one more. Vick Acres. They asked all legend. I mean, just the master values, standards.

It's not not who you are is what you represent. He taught me that and that how you can give

players the smallest gestures mean the most. He was a real, he was one of my biggest teachers.

Oh, and I love how you can get inspiration everywhere. We could do a whole show and just on the V

formation of Geese. Oh yeah, definitely. Don't get Emma started on the V formation of Geese.

Thank you to our friends at Bank of America official Bank of US soccer for making all of this

possible. I've learned so much Emma, you an inspiration. Likewise, thanks for having me,

Ronge. To you, your family, your beautiful son and to the World Cup, all of this to come. Big love

courage. The one question I get most after all that football memory making we experienced

across America this summer is how do I keep the magic going? At start by saying,

articulate what you love the most and then build on it. First, find a team that will most probably

break your heart and then add all the supporting necessities to build your weekend tradition,

the key to so many of mine. It's Walmart. The place that has it all, the snacks, the coffee, the

pies. You can also get the TV at Walmart, the hoodie to wear on your couch, get the couch if you need

it and wait. It gets better because they're expressed delivery can get it right to your door,

so you're all set for kick off. Whenever you match, they need you. You can find them at

walmart.com slash soccer. Delivery timing varies by order size, traffic, weather and demand,

subject to availability fees and terms apply.