The Most Confusing Teams in the NBA!

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Coming up on the Zackelow show.

Rob Mahoney is here for one of my favorite episodes of the year.

Our five most confusing teams for the season.

Confusing could mean whatever you want it to mean, as long as it's about this particular season.

It could mean we think they're going to win way more than expected, way less than expected.

Their variance is huge.

We have no idea what they're doing.

Or if their roster makes sense, we're going to talk about a whole pile of teams.

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are there good signs there as well?

So we bounce all around the league.

We also have a little nice announcement at the top.

I'm starting a newsletter called the Low Post.

That's still a thing that's still the name.

It's on Substack.

We talk a little bit about that.

We just talk about everything that's going on

and the league we even talk about the Kings and Maxine Reno.

He got injured.

So that's all coming up next on the Zach Lo Show.

Our annual five most confusing teams

draft with Rob Mahoney coming up on the Zach Lo Show.

Welcome to the Zach Lo Show.

Rob Mahoney is here for one of my favorite annual podcast.

My five most confusing teams of the year.

We will get to that.

It's an annual tradition.

Last year, Mr. Mahoney, you were my guest for a league pass

rankings extravaganza podcast.

Do you remember this?

I do.

I recall many things about it.

I think it's a great thing to do.

I'm going to do it.

I'm going to do it.

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kind of stuff. That's my plug Mr. Mahoney, before we get to the five most confusing teams.

And by the way, I prepared a list of eight because I have a feeling I'm going to guess we

go minimum three for five overlap between us because there are some objectively.

Batch it crazy confusing teams in the league right now. We have some news to get to.

Can you when we spin through some quick news items from the weekend?

I would love to. Where do you want to start? Brandon Pajewski five years,

110 million dollar extension with the Golden State Warriors right around his cap hold.

So that it does not really cannibalize their cap space for the summer.

They of course do not have quite have max cap space. They have something like 45 million

dollars of cap space. I just think they continue to be more set up for some kind of

lot sided trade than anything else in terms of free agency given that they have all their picks

except for one at their disposal and some cap flexibility. As mentioned, I continue to think

that the team is dead on arrival this season and should not go insane trying to trade draft fix

multiple two, three, whatever of them for a win now move. But that is neither here nor there.

Pods weirdly polarizing player. I guess among Warriors fans, I'm not really dialed into like the

insane Warriors fan Twitter. I think this deals totally fine. It's 10 to 12% of the salary cap. That's

not even starter money really. And that's perfect for Pods who is I think like a fourth or fifth

starter at best and a six or seventh man, maybe more realistically does a little bit everything,

plays hard. Hi, Q player. I don't get why there's any upheaval about this other than

there's been some unfortunate comments from Joe Lega,

Van Brandt and Pajewski himself kind of been noining him as a superstar in waiting that have

ruled wrinkled some people. This is totally fine. I like Pods. It's a good pass. You know what he is

Rob? He's got basketball player. A perfectly fine basketball player on a team that frankly needs

perfectly fine basketball player. So I really don't have any problem with the number. It feels like a

we all really want to make this work kind of extension. I think speaking to the polarizing nature

of his 10 years of warrior so far, maybe even polarizing in the mind of Steve Kerr himself. He's

like he's had such a weird run and a weird role and it never feels like he has been given the

full rope to investigate like who he can be as a prospect. For reasons that makes sense,

this has been a veteran team that's been trying to compete. He's been a young guy. He's been

coming in trying to prove himself. They're obviously conflicting motivations there.

But he's so solid that it would be foolish to let him go. And he's so solid that I'm with you that

he's probably projects more as that kind of like end starter kind of spot. But maybe he pops at

a certain point. Maybe he becomes the third best player on a really good team. And that's a great

outcome for him. And certainly at this kind of salary level, that would be amazing. And yes,

I am guilty in the past of saying these kind of deals in the 20 to 25 million dollar range or

Kegan Murray's deal on the high end of that can sometimes go underwater when they go badly.

It should be noted that those kind of deals were signed in a lower cap environment. This one is

going forward into a massively higher cap environment. And pods is young and he's good at everything.

Like he's become a pretty good shooter after that memory had that wave of time where he just

would not shoot three. He was completely shell shot. He's like, what you said about like

downside scenarios, like I don't worry about that in terms of like fourth fifth starter.

On some teams, you need that player to have a particular set of skills. On other teams,

you need that player to have a different particular set of skills, depending on who your top two

guys are. He can fit pretty much in any kind of environment. Do you have any? What did I even

gotten to the group chat power rankings warriors segment yet? I'm a little behind.

What do you have any hope for this theme this season? Where are you on the warriors?

I'm not very hopeful. I mean, I think a lot of my reservations and concerns are just like,

are they going to have enough healthy bodies to feel an actual basketball team for 82 games? And

I mean, like, Brandon Paginski is a great kind of counterpoint for that. And part of the reason he

gets this deal, he has played more minutes as a warrior than literally anyone else over the last

three years. And so his ability to be out there is huge. But without Butler to start the year,

Moses Moody to start the year, Chris F. Porzangus in limbo, Al Horthard being his age,

DeAnthony Melton being healthy for now, Steph Curry being healthy for now. But all of those things are

ifs. I just don't see how there's like a good ploy off caliber basketball team there,

even if Steph in Steph we trust in all of their context. And the reason I said I wouldn't go crazy,

like all this stuff about, you know, they're always chasing the next big guy, right? And they

haven't gotten them yet and they've been lambasted for that. I think somewhat unfairly, but also so

I think there were real opportunities that I've talked about before that maybe they could have

gotten into. I just, I mean, we'll see how they start the season. But even if they're at 500,

I just don't have really any faith in this team as a real, like, capital T team. And if it's less

than that, if it's worse than that, the lottery odds, they may be in the perfect sweet spot in

the lottery odds. And boy, could they use a bite at that apple. Okay. Number two, did you see the

debut of the Philadelphia 76ers starting five against Brooklyn on Friday? I think did you catch any

of this only in drips and drabs? I mean, what jumped out to you? So obviously all the focus was on

how bad and beat looked and the 5,000 turnovers that he puked up all over the court. Right.

I actually came away weirdly like they're trying the right stuff on offense. You know, there's a lot

of mouths to feed. We all know that everyone's gonna have to sacrifice a little bit blah, blah, blah.

I just charted their first six possessions. And then I stopped because it's the

preseason. And I just can't care that much. But they showed me everything I wanted to see in those

first six possessions very quickly. Possession number one, they ran a flex action. You know,

two guys at the elbow, two guys in the corners and bead was in the corner. That's where he's

gonna have to be sometimes. Good experiment. I don't remember what it led to. Possession number two,

Lebron hit ahead to VJ Edgecomb for a layup. Okay, that's great. That's how we want to see the team

to play. That's how we want to see them play. Possession three, Lebron, Joel and bead,

pick and roll with Jalen Brown in the dunker spot, extended Lebron to and bead to Jalen Brown

dunk. Possession number four, Maxi and bead pick and pop, kick to and bead. Lebron's defender

rotates to wave at and bead, Maxi to and bead to Lebron drive and then drop off to VJ Edgecomb

for a baseline dunk. Love it. Fifth possession, another fast break that's like Maxi and Jalen Brown

exchanging onto dunk and then sixth possession and then I stopped another flex action. This time

Lebron was handling up top and bead was at the elbow. Maxi flew off and then bead pinned down,

defender went under the screen, Tyrese Maxi three. That's like we're getting there. That's the foundation

for how this should work. Lebron is I've joked that he's kind of like the apex apex apex version

of Old Man Jason kid on the Mavericks where he just sees over everything and is throwing these

bullets 20 feet to dudes under the rim and then and bead for as bad as the turnovers were.

Looked like decently mobile on defense to me. Maybe not upwardly. I mean the the hop

lob was a tough look. The hops and the and on rebounds and contested rebounds. They're going to

come and go and that's just going to be life. I don't know what this team is going to be. I don't

know how good they're going to be. I don't know how much and bead is going to be able to play.

I do know that Nick Nurse is trying to write stuff offensively. That's kind of what jumped as you

as you rattled off that play sequence is like that to me sounds like Nick Nurse just like

noodling through a jam band guitar solo. You know, it's like it's a little messy. It's a little

rambly at times, but it's like you can see all of the disparate elements here. They're going to come

together into something interesting if not effective life throughout. What's your what's your

filly just general optimism pessimism scale Rob Mahoney. Quite optimistic. I just I think there's

almost too much there for it not to work at a pretty high level. And I trust I think the LeBron

component that you explained with Jason kid is kind of why I believe in it so much. If it was just

Jalen Brown and Maxi and Vett Edgecom and then bead. That's a really nice team. Maybe in some

ways makes like cleaner sense, but you need the the macro processor at the center of it to help

make sense of so many of these possessions and get the ball where it needs to go and reroute

things that aren't quite working. And I just think LeBron is going to make a huge difference for

this team. I am higher than I'd like to be on the sixers as I said last week when I when I force

myself to do my own thought exercise of if I have to pick someone other than the nicks to make

the finals out of these who would I pick I looked at every team and I was like well go throw up in

my mouth a little bit and pick the sixers because I'm like Fox molder I trust no one else so I

trust no one I don't trust the sixers I trust no one. I also don't trust James Dolan so item number

three the New York nicks have announced a rare step that they are tabling contract extensions with

among others carl entity towns and Josh Hart and Ducyck Brad until some indefinite point at some

other time than the current point in time. I don't know man like cat I guess this all started when

cat said that there is no comfortability in this and of course he's like an extension and he made

some comments about how we'd like to get something done between you know what I would dream to get

and what makes sense for the team and we're not close to that number. I don't know how that went

over with James Dolan but now they're not negotiating at all and Fred cats with the athletic nailed this

I didn't realize this at the time if they don't get this extension done before the season starts

it eliminates one particular route towards a town's extension which is he opts in to $61 million

for next season 27 28 and then they can go down from there which is critical because it's 28 29

when Brunson's huge deal kicks in when the second apron really becomes a tough barrier for them

and if they don't get this done before the season they can still negotiate all sorts of different

things but they can't negotiate that way. I just look I've done the math we've all done the math

there are ways for them to sign cat to a fair-ish deal and heart to a fair-ish deal and down the line

and an obi to a fair-ish deal and stay under the second apron. I don't think towns and his people

are proposing some preposterous number that vaults them way over the second apron have actually

heard the opposite that they're proposing something fair although I think if the Nix off

are really as 4200 I think that's on the border of like fair I've pitched 55 average annual value

is like a good place to settle so that's close here's the only thing I'll say if James

don't want his mad at anything that Carl Anthony Towns are Josh Hart said and I don't know

that he is I just know that tabling extensions feels like a little bit of a tantrum and a negotiating

all Carl Anthony Towns did was very calmly and very factually answer a question that was

posed to him at media day he threw no bombs he didn't say anything inflammatory he just laid out

exactly what the situation is and calmly explained it and if that's if that triggered anything then

people need to buck up a little bit. I suspect it did trigger something but it says more about

Dolan than anybody else and frankly like all of the second apron fear amongering and I'm with you

I think there's very reasonable constructions for basically all of these deals although do some

might get left out in the cold to get the core of this team back and be reasonably within range of

the second apron down the line. I just don't care about the second apron if you are a championship

team like the only mechanisms it really imposes are your ability to add more players to the team

that already exists or I guess to replace if somebody got hurt if somebody was on the downswing

if you needed to make dramatic shifts in the core in the future then yes it would limit your

ability to do that. You already have a championship roster they just fucking proved it like they could

have brought back Mitchell Roberts and they could have given all of these guys extensions it would have

been a hundred percent fine and a hundred percent legal under the second apron because those

restrictions should not apply for teams in this positions and in this position and yet James Dolan

and frankly a lot of the owners around the league love to put up this boogie man and hide behind

it is oh my god we couldn't possibly cross this line look at the like absolutely catastrophic

series of repercussions what you're crazy person voted for this in a boardroom. How did this happen?

I'm just I'm I'm so over it and frankly I'm especially over it when the team that just proved

they were the best team in the league is crying poor like just just pay the guys to bring back

a proper title defense it doesn't seem that complicated. Imagine if they had to pay proper

taxes and property taxes on Madison Square Garden wow what a what a horrible what a horrible

world that would be for the poor billion. Okay basketball things that happen over the weekend

you can take or leave any of these is interesting to you. Kyrie Irving made his debut next to Cooper flag

the first time we've seen that pairing Cleveland played its new starting five with Peyton Watson

for the first time Jason Tatum made his preseason debut in the Celtics started Mitchell Robinson but not

Peyton Pritchard and Reed Shepherd grew a mustache and kind of a beard and looks like a middle

reliever now for like the Houston Astros or something or any of those interesting to you.

All of them are interesting but I did feel most moved contrary to everything I thought I knew

about myself by Kyrie being back on the floor and I think some of it is like I had become over the

last couple of years in change like a real Kyrie guy after being somewhat of a skeptics or

lay of you know his broader decision making just as a person even who he was as a basketball player

at various stops and just like who he has become and the joy of getting to watch him on the floor

has superseded so much of that noise and I think he has also grown into the kind of person and the

kind of leader and the kind of veteran that is just like so easy to respect and admire that having

him back I was like it really did feel like the season was coming back for the first time it felt

like a really clean turn of the page in a way that I didn't even know that I needed. I'm just

really excited to see how the two of them play off of each other both cutting off the ball when the

other one has it both of them are good at that and their two-man game is just tailor made beautiful

generate mismatches on the other stuff Cleveland starting five look fine whatever they're going to have

to figure out paid in Watson and what he's doing there but defensively you know you kind of forget

these things until you see it like intuitively you know they're going to be switched here with Watson

because of how good he is and then you see it and you're like man hard and is so good at guarding up

like that's really his one piece of utility on defense is he's big and strong and guards up

they can switch a lot two to five as long as they protect Mitchell and even he can switch a little

bit. I mean I think that's the underrated part of Mitchell's defense is he he's not a hardened

quality to the same extent but for a guard his size is incredibly strong and can hold his spot.

I think Cleveland's going to be very good. Tadam looked great the Celtics were trying to run more

we'll see and yeah reach efforts in my stash something a monitor.

Last thing your guy and my guy Maxine Reino suffered a knee injury because the

Kings just cannot have any nice things they get one nice thing Ben Simmons looks like aggressive

and good and I've heard all summer that he's feeling great and looks great and he actually did

he attacked the basket and they lose Reino to some sort of injuries going to be revalued in

two weeks. I don't know the specifics now just you know I really I was like driving the train

of he needs to be first team all rookie. I don't remember if he did win first team all work here not

because I don't care but I just just fun dude to watch I want the Kings to have some fun

dudes to watch. They're going to need him although I mean the deris a cup stuff out of the gate has been

a little a little more I don't know how to even to describe it like I am I'm compelled by it more

than I expected to be. He has a professional Bob and we've pick and roll kind of game. It's

there are going to be Knightsworths inefficient, Miss shots, turnovers, all the rookie undersized guard

stuff but he's got the feel and the pacing of a professional number one ball handler.

Last thing on the Kings I had a I had a fun little segment last week on what I called a roast

by the Vecron Diva at their team dinner. Kings took some issue with the word roast because as I said

in the segment it was it was meant to be him sort of reciting all the typical criticisms of the

players on his team and then saying you know let's prove all of that stuff wrong and it look I

I have no regrets and don't take anything back. I will say one thing I did omit was that Vec opened

it by making fun of himself and calling himself the worst owner in professional sports or in the

history of professional sports. I don't remember I do think it was a well-intended whatever that

did not land is intended with everybody in the audience. Some it did some like that something but

that's all the Vec did self-roast I do want to make that clear. Self-roasting is important context but

I do find that people in general love when their boss gets them all in the room and explains the

broad strokes criticisms that everyone seems to believe to be true about them. I mean who wouldn't

respond well to that. I hope Bill does it to us. Let's have a whole summit and I would love it.

Okay I think that's it for news and I do think Vec generally means well in his stewardship of

the Kings which is gone awry. That hasn't really been the problem I don't think. Yeah well I mean

it's like I I meant well when I tried to fix our garage door a few months ago and then it ended

up slanted and stuck in some sort of a position that was not okay and we need to call someone who

actually knows what they were doing. Just the Zach Levine of Home Improvement endeavors. Let's take

a let you know what yeah let's take a quick break and then we'll do we'll start our five most

confusing teams. This episode is brought to you by Mick Lowe Boltra the official beer sponsor of

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All right this is one of my favorite podcasts of the year five most confusing teams.

Confusing can be kind of what you want it to be but it's really intended to be your outlook for

them on the court and maybe off of it to for this particular season. It could be a team that you

look at and say boy what a wide variance of outcomes. I have no idea what to expect from this team

they could be awesome they could suck. I have no clue I'm just confused it could be I have actually

no idea how they ended up with the roster that they have and how any of it is going to look on the

court. It could be I have no idea how they're going to approach team building in the next calendar

year are they going to be buyers sellers neither are their phones not going to work as they happen

in New Orleans for much of the summer or it couldn't be all of those so I have my five although I

have seven ready because I suspect at least three out of five we're going to overlap but I will

give you first pick Rob Mahoney's most confusing team of the year. Incredibly generous of you I

mean I'm going to start with the muse of my personal cognitive dissonance which is the Miami heat

we are all for we are all for one let's go let's go go forwards all the way through let's let's talk

about as many teams as possible but my first instinct is to say that the key look that the east is

going to be stacked that the reality is they're going to shake out is like the seventh or eighth best

team in the conference right there's so many good teams here from the mix all the way down we

talked about the sixers I mean you got the the calves and the Celtics you got the raptors you got

this like there's so many teams are going to be in the mix that it makes sense that the heat could

wind up as the seventh or eighth best team and then there's another part of my brain where the

alarms are going off and saying wait you're telling me a team with Yannis who is still one of the

five or six best players on the planet and bam and good defense and enough shooting and Eric

Spolstra that that team is going to be a play in team and it's like the war that is constantly

happening with with in me as far as trying to understand what the nature of the east pecking order

is and where the heat fall in it that is what is loudest in my mind at this point well there's

going to be I mean all of us are going to be confused about the east throughout the season they're

going to be teams were like in one week it's like Detroit's eighth how did that happen in that

there'll be fourth a week later and everything will be fine I think this is a great pick I didn't

have them just because I mean I can't it would be hard for me to see them winning fewer than like 46

games and it would be hard for me to see them winning more than 50 like I think they're just going

to be a very good team I don't know where that places them in the east um Yannis has looked great

in his limited action already they're going to have to figure out some spacing with him and bam

the lack of like pull up off the dribble shooting as you and I have talked about is a little bit

worrisome definitely and I'm glad that you brought up the heat because I don't know if they

are aware of this in Italy I think we should be famous in Italy because you and I are the

president and vice president you can be the president of the Simone Fontechio fan club and

you still kicking around I don't know how much is going to play particularly if Nicole

Yovic transforms from my theoretical player into a real player I don't know how many minutes will

be for him but Simone is still kicking around baby as he should be I look I hope this gets us some

kind of a bassinorship you know like if they want to station us in Italy for a little while like

I wouldn't be mad about it deep dive on should that be one of my first news letter post I go to

just deep dive on Simone for 10 5,000 word profile who knows what who knows what to think about it

and I don't know it's the feature that the people or at least the person being me has been waiting for

I mean is there another player on this team that you want to spotlight as like this could be

an incredible situation for him or like this could go bust for him is there like a player that kind

of other than the mains yeah kind of swings this for you I don't even think it's like that there's

a one swing player X factor kind of thing for me it's more like what makes the heat particularly

confusing and hard to chart is that you just can't know what Spowe is going to do like he's one of

the least dogmatic coaches in the leagues one of the most adaptive coaches in the league and so I'm

with you that I think their floor is like reasonably high assuming that Yannis doesn't have a major

injury like they they clearly need him to stay out there but if things don't work like I just have

a lot of faith and Eric Spolstra to tinker and to continue to like find inroads to something is

was hard to know what that something is like if you told me the style of offense that the

heater gonna run in November and the style of offense that they're gonna run in April they could

be worlds apart and I think the process of seeing the heat become themselves is going to be one of

the great adventures of this season and I just like when Yannis is on the floor his team is good

like the bucks last year with Yannis were good were like quite good as good as you know like the

nuggets or the calves or the wolves right and that kind of mix in terms of net rating and so

thinking that this team is going to be seven thirtieth I just I don't know I find myself like

self-flagulating for that a little bit where it's like they they simply have to be better than that

by talent and yet the attrition of the East might be what it is. Well, and we've just got to see

can you get through 65 68 games whatever it is because you're right when he's on the floor

I mean between him and David Mitchell and Wiggins and Bam this should be a top eight defensive team

if everybody's healthy top 10 at worst like they're gonna be a very good defensive team they

may be way better than I'm just trying to be conservative it's the offense that's going to be the

maker break for them and you're right like if Yannis is on the floor as a one man fast break for 32

minutes a game 65 times with the amount of shooting they have around him and Bam is going to be on

the floor for some of those 32 minutes but not all of them like they're going to be a pretty god damn

good offensive team I don't know that they're going to be six or fifth but I don't think they're

going to be 20th I think they'd be somewhere like slightly above average to maybe better than that

so that's it and that's out to a good team I'm gonna give you second pick because I'm disappointed

that we didn't overlap and I'm betting I'm betting that we're gonna I just don't see any chance

now that we've gone over one that one of your other confusing teams is not on my list let's go

with the Utah Jazz unbelievable the confusion around the league is just widespread I guess this is

maybe one of the most unpredictable overall seasons we've had in a long time like the high-end

stuff does feel pretty locked in we know who the thunder and the spurs and the nicks are but

everything else feels up for grabs and the jazz feel especially up for grabs for me I look at this

rotation even with Nirk out for you know the first couple weeks of the season and I think like

is this not a winning team like is this not a team that could break even at 500 or slightly

better is this not a collection that's a clearly the most talented collection of players that

jazz have had in a while and a collection of players that make sense in a lot of ways I just

think there's there's such a long climb from 22 wins last year into being like a team of actual

you know playoff accommodation so I don't really think they're gonna get all the way that far but

I just I wonder about how far they can climb about how compatible this particular group is in

year one if they're gonna have everything figured out and especially with how much the jazz have

like depressed their own win totals over the last couple years how much may we may be anchoring

on the low end of who they've tried to be as opposed to who this roster actually could have been

I just don't know who the eldest team is I think the Kessler trade is so fascinating for them because

they made a very stark choice of like we're super excited about our team we think we can play

Lowry and triple J and Kessler together we actually want to and now we might have to play

Nirk in that spot when Nirk is healthy defensively Kessler is just on another level from Nirk

at this stage obviously is it offensive rebounder his hands his feel all that is like totally

different level the threes we'll see I'll believe it when I see it and then they got this off

from the Lakers and they decided this is too good to pass up we will voluntarily take a step back

this year to take a bigger step forward at some point because if they had Kessler and they sprinkled

in enough a Kogi or whatever on the wing to give them a stable wing defender like that's a road map

to an okay defense and I think offensively this team could be very very powerful with the young

guards assuming you know Peterson is kind of eased in and not overburdened and he's looked great

into preseason two you know I'm with you in general though like they were and a couple of my

picks are clustered in this spot they were my number one pick in the if some incumbent team from

the west top six just inexplicably falls out of the top six yeah who would replace them and you

get into like the Portland Phoenix Utah are you optimistic about Dallas or Memphis or whatever kind

of morass of teams and Utah was my if I had to pick one of those teams I just kind of like the

upside of this team I think Will Hardy is a really great offensive coach who's going to have

like you give you give him these bigs who are who can shoot who can come off pin downs who can do

stuff off the dribble who can play a little bit like guards if it not pass like guards but play

like guards I just think he's going to figure out ways to have this team scored a pretty high level so

I'm I guess I guess the confusion what is the source of confusion like are we underestimating them

is there a down is there like a more severe downside here than you and I are maybe envisioning

I think I'm just I'm seeing I well I think there's both on paper the talent to me says this

team should be pretty good and yet I'm not sure that they ultimately will be I think the passing

what you and I have talked about before could potentially be part of it the fact that this team

does have so many guys who play like guards also kind of bears out in the rebounding like the jazz

strike me as the kind of team where it's like are they a referendum on the concept of rebounding

because none of these guys are above average rebounders for their position will that matter is

there enough like connective tissue here in terms of the undergirding of what makes a good basketball

team to make the jazz actually good or will they just be a team that is like a high-powered

offense is kind of fun to watch is certainly more captivating than they have been but doesn't

amount too much. That's a good slogan for the team you come by season think it's to the jazz more

captivating than we have been look it's all relative you know all right I'm going to make my first

pick now because it's in this same universe of teams that would be shocked and a little disappointed

if you did not have them and unless they are such a chalky choice that you were bored with them

the Portland Trailblazers are one of my five most confusing teams for the season not because I

have that much confusion about what their ultimate record is going to be I think this is like a

pretty middle of the road team just how they get there is going to look so different that it did

last year when it was the Denny driving show tenacious defense all over the floor forcing tons of

turnovers not being able to shoot at all from any position anywhere and now they've just kind of

got it got to figure it out like they started Miranda and Dame together in their first preseason

game it looked maybe they'll do that like a nori who as I let's see how many more months on

Mike and or his contract are we ticking toward here hasn't been completely clear that that's going

to be the case I don't think he straight upset this combination of players does not make sense

this is what I'm rooting for day one starters this is what I'm rooting for from Mike and ori not

to spoil my own big pass rankings because this is a joke that's in there you know there's a conventional

school of thought that on a one year contract you kind of spend the whole year worrying about your

job security and like saying the right thing and like placating the superstar and doing the thing

I think he needs to go the other way just fucking let it fly you want to bench John Moran Bench

John Moran you want to say that this guy stinks or that I love this guy and I'm not listening

that I'm getting edicts from this person and I'm I was what do you have to lose another one year

contract that the lasers at the 30th ranked salary in the league Mike and ori let it fly I just think

they're they had one identity and they have remnants of that identity right like I think you and

I booked very high on clinging as a potential two-way player Kamara is an awesome defender Denny

should be much better without having to carry the entire offense but the wing depth is a little

well I mean depending on how you classified your holiday and scoot in him are coming off the bench

the wing depth that she had in sharp is a little iffy time lord as a backup big is as good as

it gets if he plays I just think it's going to be a very strange brew for a little while of like

oh John Moran's over in the corner but then like when they they got rebounds in their first

piece of game against the words they would job would run up the court hit guys for trail three

Denny shot catching shoot three is it a reasonable rate last year it was the pull-ups that really

dragged his average down I just interested to see how they play I don't know where you are on them

but you know I think they're over unders right around 500 I think that seems appropriate I think

don't be in the play in tournament they strike me as a team that's going to remind us a lot of

maybe timber wolves teams past as far as like offenses that will just completely lose their mind

for eight minutes at a time and I don't mean that in a good way just like horrific turnovers terrible

spacing zero flow and then they'll come out with plays that are so mind boggling and so singular

that they pull you back in and maybe even give the the team and the game some momentum like

the high low swings of the blacers are going to be really really intense and maybe nauseating I think

for some people who are tuning in night after night to watch this team but the talent is clearly

there the composition of the team is weird but is weird in a way where I think like this could be

good for Denny's development to kind of find this sort of secondary if not tertiary sort of role

again clearly a very capable player can be very productive but I don't think anyone would come off

of last year's run especially into the playoffs and think like okay this is exactly how much

Denny Abdea should be doing he should scale back a little bit he should find kind of the happy

medium between all star Denny and purely supporting player Denny and this is one way to do it like it's

one way to fast track that sort of slot in development for I mean just the best two way player

that they have on the roster right now it was cool to see Dame back in a Portland uniform when I

was peaking in on that game like coming off split cuds Jack and open three is like you really to eat

look the shot is going to be the shot forever and ever and it it is like you got to guard him

everywhere and it does open up spacing for everybody and it makes it a little bit more workable with

Morant who's going to be treated as an on shooter and Denny who will be treated as an okay shooter and

a big man who's going to be around the rim and clinging I just I can't wait to see how they play

okay I'm going to make my next pick because what you said about Portland alternating between

euphoria and like what the fuck is happening with this team I think that is going to describe

perhaps a lower level in the standings a team that I think has to appear on this podcast almost

annually but especially this year and that's New Orleans Pelicans yeah I have no idea what this is

I just don't I don't I mean do you think they do on any level I think they what they appear to

have decided that Zion and Queen cannot start games together because they've started East Mecia at

center in the preseason and I think if you have any hope for your defense that is the appropriate

stance but at this point I think they are more invested in Derek Queen than they are long-term

in Zion Williamson and they will have to play them both together at at some point I mean they're

starting five of Dejante Murray who I heard you on group chat correctly saying that like boy did

he he looked like the stabilizing force down this team needs may he'll never make it all start to

him again but it wow competent point guard play kind of just orders everything in place him

Tramer for the third who doesn't love Tramer for the third herb Jones when he plays who doesn't

love herb Jones needs to shoot it better but whatever Zion me see makes some sense and then you just

come off the bench with so many dudes who need the ball like Jordan Poole Sadeek Bay Ben Mathurin

is here for some reason Derek Queen wants to run the offense like the names are all interesting

I just have absolutely no idea what it's going to translate to on the court on either end of the floor

like literally what it's going to look like other than Zion does feel like it really does feel like

the days of point Zion post Zion heavy doses of picking rolls Zion are over like obviously he's

going to do a little bit of that stuff all the time but like he's in the dunker spot just hanging

around a much more than he used to be with that's weird they have I think all of their draft

picks including I think they get the best of their own pick in the bucks pick this year which is

a very nice pick to have but it does resonate with me what you said because I do think we're going to

like we'll be watching Pelicans Kings or Pelicans Blazers and the Pelicans just score 48 points

in that quarter and like Zion's dunking everything and Tramerfee is dunking all the oops or it

looks like he's going to touch the top of the backboard herbs deflecting everything in sight

and then you're like oh yeah they did and then they lost the game I just I don't I would rank

this team behind Portland Phoenix who else like probably Dallas probably Memphis I would think

some TBD but I don't know you could talk me into like hey the Pelicans are 500 what's going on

they're going to have those stretches I think for Grootchai we had the ranked as the 25th best

team in the league which might be a little down on them but we just empirically cannot trust the

Pelicans anymore we've gone through this way too many times I did I did hear you say that as a

the one and only fundamental rule of Grootchai is never trust the Pelicans I wonder what it's

going to take to reverse that to reverse that rule ownership change regime change full roster

turnover I like there's like a ship of thecs thing here the where we're going to need to remove

every single board that composes this franchise and rebuild it before we start to put trust back

into it again but in the meantime you're right that there's like a lot of individual players who

have really high approval ratings among basketball fans among front office people a lot of guys to

really like and yet the holistic view of the team is so hard to place and it's so hard to place in

part like it was really striking looking back at their season and seeing how many lineups for them

kind of worked if it was like three solid wings and either the youth movement of Jeremiah fears

in Derek Queen or the Dejonté Murray Zion Williams in pair but then you get into mixing matching

them and it gets weird real fast and so it's like clearly there are two paths here that they could

take if they really wanted to which are they inclined to do it's hard to say they're investing in

Derek Queen if he's coming off the bench. I that's fair I mean you meant like the core

of the group of players that I most want to see play on this team as just the neutral like what's

happening here for the next three years fan or whatever is fears herb Jones Tramer for the third

and Queen that's what I want to say I like Jeremiah fears a lot he's got some spunk he's got some

fire to his game he's got passing vision with both hands and he plays and I mean this is a compliment

carries himself like he thinks he's the best player on the floor all the time which is exactly what

I want from a young guard if they were minus 10 per 100 possessions last year I'm just throwing

that in the garbage I don't care that's sort of that like that makes sense to me but then like

you throw in all these other dudes who just need the ball who are playing for contracts like

Jordan Poole that I mean that trade made absolutely no sense from day one I don't care that it

also got them to Deek Bay who got like a contract extension I just don't know what all these guys

are doing on the same team and I don't know you know I heard Bill talking about the Zion zone I

think that was with you on this podcast about too good to trade too risky for anybody to trade for

him I legitimately like have no idea what's gonna happen with Zion he's on a semi expiring contract

I don't know what team's gonna roll the dice on him if you're a team that's like trying to find a

win now move to round out your roster because you think you can make the finals that can't be the

that's too much of a risk like I don't know it's too much of a you have to do so much to

accommodate what he does and doesn't do well that I don't know so mystery to me you would almost

need a circumstance like what the bucks were in with y'allness last year not that y'allness and Zion

would be compatible players but like a superstar who's such a flight risk that you're willing to

take a desperate leap at some kind of talent like an end of first Cavs run LeBron like let's

bring in Antoine Jamison let's bring in Shaq let's just put like people hear who he knows

and might be able to produce in some capacity because you're right the stakes are too high for Zion

to play for anything that really matters and too hard to rely on him to be like a load bearing

member of a team like that it just doesn't make sense and last year the irony was it was the

most durable he's been in years and he had a streak of like 50 something consecutive games played

and also the most confusing like exactly what is he on the court now in this sort of revamped

Pelican's universe like we're all going to look back on that Lakers play in game I mean as like

I remember exactly where I was watching that game when he was going absolutely crazy and

decimating the Lakers by himself and it was this like yes it's here yeah it's happening by the way

you shot a couple catch and shoot threes in one of their preseason games that I saw that's perhaps

a way of him expressing like I've got to find other things to do here and it will also I remember

exactly where I was in his first game ever it was it a preseason game or regular season game against

the spurs or he made like five threes in his first game it was like oh my god I didn't know this guy

has this in his game he doesn't it turns out I assume you had them on your list I mean there's no

confusion list without the Pelicans I mean they they just earn a spot on this less year of

every year every year so congratulations to the reigning champions of the most confusing team

we should maybe I'll just rename it as like the the Joe Dumas Gale Benson

most confusing teams list or so I have to work on a better king cake baby most confusing teams

don't bring up now this whole podcast is derailed because I'm going to have the king

cake babies terrifying face I think I've told the story before but the king cake baby and I've met

many times he knows that I love mascots and he knows that he is the scariest mascot and so he

snuck up on me on sets at ESPN at games in New Orleans as and he doesn't talk like most mascots he

doesn't talk so this giant baby head just suddenly appears behind you no he's not wearing any clothes

I think he's wearing a diaper that's it as every every year when Marty Gross starts day one of

Marty Gross I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets this treatment I get a DM on Twitter from

King King baby that's just a skull a skull and crossbones that's it and let me tell you I don't

exactly have Marty Gross like tracked in my calendar of exactly when it starts so I get that message

and the first couple times I got out I was like oh my god is he here is he behind me is he in the house

when you when you started saying he knew I thought you were going to say he knew where I lived

and just started showing up there which I wouldn't put past the king pick cake baby but I pray

for you that's not ever the case I don't have a Halloween costume yet this year actually I

wonder if there's a king cake baby costume that I can't think it hooked you up they got they got

they got an alternate mascot king cake baby head and you can provide your own adult-sized diaper

and there you go then you're really cooking yeah it's not a good cold weather costume though

that's true I will I do have to say I do have to unfortunately say we've gotten the news

and the little household that for the first time in Halloween history we are banned from

even track even trailing from a distance or daughter and her friends yeah trick or treating so

there's that sounds like you just need a better costume more incognito and how could you ever

be tracked or I I do it could be a good way for me to transition into giving out candy because let

me tell you if you're a fucking lazy teenager and you come to my house with no costume you are not

getting candy you're getting turned away I will risk whatever vandalous teenagers are too on their

phones to do any vandalism anymore what if they're going to go to chat gbt and be like how do

vandalize mean man's house and then they're going to just give up because the the answer is too much

work I'm not afraid of them what are you going to do okay pick your next team please

I would like to pick a team that I'm hoping you might be able to talk me down on um

pop me down you're too high on them I'm a little too high and I'm feeling dangerous I feel out on

the wire and that's the Toronto Raptors can you please talk me down on the Toronto Raptors

sure their best player has not finished the second round playoff series since 2020 done and end

of talking down I mean I'm with you I think they're going to be a really good team uh their depth

is I think just good enough and and will like if they have a top eight that I really like and

beyond that I get a little a little antsy uh I think they have some interesting fit questions at

center and in the perimeter rotation with jacobie Walter and column Murray boils are they just like

nailed to the benches reserve players or do they get a crack at maybe starting I mean they're both

very good we you and I love Murray boils I'm sure definitely um and I could see them being a top

foreseed in the eastern conference I just think everyone who goes from that step to this team

could be in the finals has to just reckon with the fact that koai Leonard has not finished a second

round playoff series since 2020 and you have to win three to make the finals the last time I check

and so I don't know if that's talking them down as a regular season wins producer but I just

I there's no universe in which I could pick a koai Leonard team to make the finals if they are this

if they are reliant on him to be their best all-around player whether they are by the end of the year

is an interesting conversation because I think Scotty Barnes is going to be sniffing the top 10

player conversation by the end of this season um but I just that's that's my talk that's my that's

my argument do I need anymore no I think I think that's sufficient in a way but it's like the

intellectual part of my brain understands everything you're saying uh understands the caveats

with koai and his health understands where this team might need a little more depth understands

if koai does get hurt what that does for the regular season how they're going to manage the

rotation all of those things and yet the heart wants what it wants and it wants the highs of

watching the rappers in the playoffs last year bolstered with one of the best half-court creators

in the game in terms of visibility to manufacture their his own shot the exact thing that this team

seemed to need at that point in time plus getting a manual quickly back plus as you say we call him

a hurry boils you like I mean I'm just irrationally um irresponsibly high on at this stage and I think

he absolutely should be starting for this group I think he looks to me like an all-defensive

guy for years to come I just think this seems going to be really good and I look at the rest of

that east which is quite formidable and you just start talking yourself into okay like what if the

calves just kind of are who they are and they're going to run up against the same ceiling even with

paid Watson what if Jason Tatum who has his own health considerations in the season doesn't hold

up in the ways that we expect what if the sixor thing goes sideways what if like I think the next

we expect to be there but what if the piss is like they're kind of in a weird regression state

potentially both in terms of wind total and down like downgrading frankly front to bias hairs

to John Collins every every team in the mix there has their like reason for apprehension

and why this is why I'm Fox molder I trust no one I can't is that the Martin Landau character that

tells him to trust no one I can't but whoever says it the cigarette smoking man yeah I think it

might be but he embodies it whether you know he's told and he does as he's told in that in that

one and only case. God I love Fox molder what a guy I mean top 10 on my list if I can be friends

with this person from a teller that you show in real life he would be in my top 10 just what see

I don't know about that I love watching Fox molder doesn't seem like a great friend you know

doesn't seem like he's going to show up to your barbecue doesn't seem like he's going to be

there to support you when it's that's fine. Smolder giving you a ride to the airport absolutely.

I don't want any of those things and I don't want any of those things from my current friends.

Okay. I just don't I really just want like I'd almost rather you not annoy me by being too much

of an intrusion into my life and if you're addicted to your crazy work I understand that I can relate

to that it's very true. I want to go on some adventures with him I want to get to like I want to

follow like a freight train that's in the middle of nowhere in New Mexico that he thinks has aliens in

it I want to be all part of that. What we're talking about these yeah good luck scoring any baskets when

collie Leonard Scotty Barnes and Colin Murray Boyles are on the floor together.

Collie purely added it like adds everything the Raptors need shooting free throws everything

and adds also to everything they're already good at like forcing turnovers and switching and all

that stuff he's like purely additive. Yeah you could talk there you could talk me into them being

the number one seed in the east when the playoffs start like that's how many games I think they

could potentially win and how crazy the east is. This is my way of saying including them in this

list that I have them ranked quite high as far as where they're going to turn out in the east and

I am acknowledging here in front of you and everyone else that I understand that that's insane

on some level I understand how full that is but I like I just can't help it in looking at this

collection of players I think I think part of it is seeing them in the playoffs without Brandon

first because he was struggling and then because he was out without a manual quickly and seeing how

good they could still be makes me think okay if they do need to pace themselves without Goliath

for stages of this season they seem fully capable of that and a lot of that has to do with Scotty.

Well it's not just like the numbers Scotty Barnes put up and the defense that he played as a

shop locker as a hey mid series we now want you to guard James Hardin and Donovan Mitchell and all

of that it's that to win at the very highest level in the NBA there's just a physical and mental

urgency you need to play with where you have nothing left in you at the end of these games where

it's just all out all the time and he hit that left like it's a very rare year to see a player

and you can almost see it in person and through the screen like they hit a level of intensity that

they even sort of realize like I've never been in this zone of intensity sustained intensity and

work before and I can do it and I can impact the game all over the place he hit it and that was like

one of the three or four most important developments league wide of the entire postseason

last year I completely agree and it's what we're waiting for with so many other guys and it's just

like it's hard to expect someone to learn that or acquire that it's like I love Evan Mobley as a

player I have never once seen in the playoffs that kind of edge and intensity and consistency of

effort from Evan Mobley that we saw from Scotty Barnes for all the good things he brings to the

table for all the ways that he bolsters Cleveland's defense like still an excellent player but that like

that ability to show up in that capacity in the games that legitimately matter most for your team

season is such a unique skill and it's one that is so easy to take for granted especially as we look

at oh they did this in the regular season they put up these numbers I love this guy's talent on paper

what Scotty Barnes did wasn't on paper it was like on the hardwood sweat equity like

fucking in your face dunking on people in transition turning every borderline loose ball scenario into

into a Raptor's advantage like that's of matters to me and I thought he proved about as much as

you can prove in that kind of playoff run so so far we've courted diplomatic positions in Italy

and Canada on this and this podcast as I have failed to talk you down from the Raptors all right

so so far we have named as our confusing teams Toronto Miami New Orleans and Portland I think

are the four teams we have talked about as like let's take a break and we will round out our

confusing teams list that's the sound of a baby being born at St. John's that's the sound of

your celebratory first meal being served that's the sound of sunshine pouring into your spacious

room and that's the sound of a happy baby taking in its first meal because when it comes to your

birthing experience we've thought of everything St. John's everything for the better

Bonjour Compadre it's the how do I negotiate so many great travel deals my greatest gadget

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stream now they never all right my turn I'm gonna stand the east perhaps a lower tier definitely

a lower tier I don't know what to make of the Atlanta Hawks cuckaw we've hit the Hawks section

of the podcast blitzed the entire league to finish last season they might need to hang a banner for

this because everyone has to say it now it's it's a obligatory to mention that they are the only

team to beat the next twice in the playoffs in the same series last year that's a banner for the Hawks

and yet I'm just sort of and they have a great coach and quince nighter I get it

I'm just sort of unconvinced that it was that real in part because they faddened up so much

on the tanking teams who are now gone in the league and by the way just hovering over all of this

and I'm doing over unders with Bill tomorrow in the house I think people if anything are underestimating

what is sea change is coming because of the lottery reform just how much more competitive the

league is going to be on a night to night basis having removed that incentive to lose almost

completely I think it's going to be like a borderline revolutionary kind of change in how the season

goes and you know they pick up dirt they also pick up Aaron Wiggins and largely bring back everything

that happened well for them everyone that played well for them last year I just I don't know if they

caught lightning in a bottle I worry about the collective shooting when they have Daniels and

Dort and Jalen Johnson on the floor together even with Anyaka Kangu having turned himself into

like an A plus spot up shooting center quite a size undersized I worry like can the Keele Alexander

Walker do that again I think he actually maybe can and then you know I'm this all it presumes

that they're going to bring CJ McCollum off the bench again and start Alexander Walker Daniels

Dort Johnson Akangu even though the CJ starting experiment worked like gangbusters that turned

around their whole season just feels like they're going to have some puzzles to solve and you know

their reserves are like kissbirds all right Mogay's injured but he's all right Zubi is okay Aeson

Nual's okay Joklando's okay I'm a little worried about their depth I don't like I just have the hot

I guess I'm doing the opposite with you as you did with Toronto with me I just like tell me on

why this is actually a threat to be a top 16 because I frankly don't don't see it I don't think

they have one I mean we listed all the teams that are like in Miami's way of being a top six team

and I think with Atlanta you have that group plus Miami plus Orlando like it just feels a little too

cluttered even if they do ride the highs of exactly how good they looked over the tail end of last

season and even for the start of that series against the nicks they be I don't know if you heard

they did beat the next twice in a series they did you know I have heard a little bit about that I

do want to commend them for being them more than anyone else seem to be capable of but

you're right that the puzzles are like overlaying in a way for the rotation that are just a little

too over complicating like I actually I will defend Dyson Daniels and his effect on the floor

even their ability to survive what he can't do offensively like I think he doesn't

enough for you as a connecting passer and in some other capacities on offense where he offsets

some of what he isn't as a shooter but him and Ludoord together is just like kind of a dead

on arrival premise for me. Now they're going to be I mean when they have Alex the flip side is

Alexander Daniels door they're going to be really hard to like perimeter ball handlers are going

to have a hard fucking time dealing with the steam for sure like and door Kingston Fleming's in

that group too as far as like the tenacity that they can maintain on the ball I just want to see

it spaced out in the rotation a little bit more maybe that's something that gets resolved over

the first couple months of the season but part of why I'm nervous about that initial starting

alignment is like I want CJ in there in part because Nikhil is such a good offball shooter

and the more ball handling responsibility you give to him the more I think degrades his impact

in that way and if you don't want to do that then you're making Dyson Daniels your de facto

point guard and teams just aren't going to guard him as that's shooting threat which then clogs

up everything else and so like this team needs to be free flowing and democratic and able to tap

into all of these component pieces in order to reach the best version of itself and I think the more

you are playing your best defenders together the harder and harder that premise is going to be

to meet. Yeah I mean that's what that's they hit this glorious gear of randomness last year

where it's like here's a miss and here comes Jalen Johnson bringing the ball up and wait is this a

Jalen Johnson Dyson Daniels two-man game and it's flowing into a CJ McCollum the key Alexander

dribble handoff like that's like all of that stuff is weird and where's their actual center what's

he doing and they just got a lot of mileage out of being random and weird like it was hard to load

up off of their non shooters because they played fast they use those guys as screeners all over the

floor they just had a randomness to them that was hard to grasp and I think if you throw that on top

of we're playing half of our games against teams that are just not going to be diled into what we're

trying to do and really care about the result they they got a lot of mileage out of that now they

can they know how to hit that gear don't end it again. Dora doesn't strike me as like a good fit

in that kind of system he's not like the most intuitive mover on the ball off the ball

but then you like if you start CJ who do you bring off the bench do you I think Alexander Walker

is now too good to be a six man Daniels and Dort are I mean the argument for starting them would be

in Daniels case everything you just said about his all court game on both ends of the floor

the argument for starting dort would be well the whole point of him being on your team

is to guard the best player on the other team but do you have it I just don't it just feels like

there's a lot of puzzles to solve and some depth issues that make me a little nervous I think I

would like for them to start Daniels and bring dort off the bench and I feel comfortable saying

that because it feels like every team in the league is trying to stagger at stars is trying to

space them out in the rotation that there's some stretch where it's like oh we expect our second

star to hold down our offense for this crucial second quarter you know these five minutes in the

second quarter congratulations now you have to do it with Lou Dort in your jersey and I think

that like I want to see the Hawks leverage that part of their depth you're right that when you get

into ninth 10th 11th men things get a little shaky for them and I say that as somebody who fully

likes and respects mokay but like that's just the reality of what they've got cooking but they really

do have the capacity in terms of the six seven eight deep to be really versatile on defense really

flexible really relentless and the more they can lean into that without totally taking away their

offensive identity I think the better off they're going to be um they won 46 games last year

tied with the Raptors six seed probably played the last half of the season at like a 55 win pace yeah

I guess that's what's confusing to me because I don't look at this team as is right now and see

in the new world of these circumference anything like that I have them probably closer like

Charlotte in Orlando in that lower tier of like you can be eighth ninth I mean Orlando will see

they may be under a list um but that's that's my source of confusion all right do you have any

other other teams you want to hit real quick I do can we talk oddly enough about the Los Angeles

Lakers um everybody wants to talk about the Lakers so they were not on my list yeah but you go ahead

I'm hesitant to put them in here because like what they did is very clear right like they built a

Luca donchage team for the first time in the like 20 months since they've had him all the component

pieces make sense why you get walk in Kessah I get all of it I think where my confusion is

personally is understanding and calibrating like this is a simpler premise of a Lakers team

does that simplicity and the straightforward way that this team is going to play make them

streamlined for regular season success where they're going to rattle off 50 plus wins or does it

oversimplify them to a degree where look if you lose LeBron James you lose the ability to route around

some of the problems that arise and one of one of the unique catches of building a Luca team as we've

seen in teams past specifically with the Mavs is like if he is out the team cannot really function

without him like he's so unique in what he brings to the table that his absence is especially

painful and so I'm looking at the Lakers and wondering how much I should be trusting them how much

I should be weighing the reliability of what it seems like they've built relative to you know the

variance of Minnesota or Denver or of these Houston these other teams that are going to be in their mix

I'm just trying to understand like what the simplicity of what they've accomplished here gets them

and I really don't quite know. So in the non-Luca games however many there are

what is it about Reeves that you that you don't trust Squad's but it's just size and play is

obviously not as good a pass as Luca but like he was he was like averaging almost 30 a game last

year before he got hurt and I think he would be my number one pick maybe by a hair over Cooper flag

for most likely first time all star but is it just that is it the playmaking chops?

It's the playmaking job he'll have incredible scoring games and I want to be fair like to even

have your eight and nine and ten assist games on occasion I just think the way that Luca

creates threats and sometimes I got imaginary threats in the minds of defensive coaches and

defenders on the floor is part of what makes him such a difficult problem to solve and so yeah if

it's a temporary thing a couple games here in there Austin he's fully capable of managing that spot

I just have like the visions in my head of Derek Jones Jr. turning back into a pumpkin because

Luca don'tchitch isn't out there to turn him into a threat and then you look out here and you see

Zaire Williams or Matisse Thiebull or like are they going to try to squeeze Jared Vanderbilt into

the rotation who is Walker Kessler as an offensive player without Luca donchitch on the floor we

really have I mean we're trying to figure out who he is as an offensive player period and so

I think all of it makes total sense to me as constructed it just feels like linear in a way that

maybe they run into their ceiling quickly or maybe they don't but I both get what they're

trying to accomplish and I'm not sure where it takes them are you more or less confused about

the Lakers than Dalton Connect was when he failed to run the play the JJ Redic called out of a

timeout and forced the anger number one angriest timeout of the year and I think both the end of

Dalton Connect and the really the end Coda of the two weeks when the Lakers are hailed as geniuses

for quote stealing Dalton Connect in the draft I'm not confused about the Lakers okay I just think

they're going to be really good not good enough to make a finals run too good to be out of the

top six I just think Lucas that good I like look if he misses a ton of games it's obviously a

game changer I think he's that good I think Reeves is that good I think the ecosystem makes sense

Kessler is going to have a big year like I was going to say by his standards he didn't play

last year and has played no meaningful games in his entire NBA career but I think he'll be good

I just think they're going to be what they always are which is like a 50 win team who isn't good

enough to challenge the spurs or the thunder and that's totally fine like there's still kind of

been phase two of a three phase plan to reorient around Luke although they've used almost all the assets

that that they have I like even like Colin Sexton is a third ball handler I do like him there yeah

um I just don't yeah I I had something else to say about the Lakers then I forgot well I just don't

have a lot of mystery about them I guess I think some of my mystery is like how these combinations

of supporting players work like of you know in the Quentin Grimes Colin Sexton Zaire Williams

Jake Laravia Sandra Mammothelish Ville like cohort just naming some guys baby I mean the name will

be good but like who are the two three four or you know I guess all you know Austin's going to be

plugged in at the two but like who are who are the forward tandems or the winged tandems that actually

make sense that have compatible skill sets that aren't just like oh this guy makes sense as a

as a spot option for Luca but are bringing something unique to the team I think there's some potential

there and maybe like that's as Zaire Williams question as much as anything somebody who maybe has

a little more upside to explore than those other guys but I'm eager to see how the rotation shakes

out and who J.J. feels comfortable kind of putting out their in specific combinations yeah I think

cam car will get chances definitely a new hero can get chances like they're going to have all these

guys it's not just like the thiable Zaire Williams reclamation projects although Batisse really had a

great year in limited action for Portland last year I just think if Luca plays 65 games the

florist is just too high for me to be maybe so I worried about them all right I'm going to give you

a couple of teams that I have and you can pick one or two to talk about because I as I said I prepared

many many teams that I thought wrongly that we would overlap here are four teams that I have that

we haven't hit yet Indiana Orlando Detroit and Dallas okay see I'm not confused by Indiana okay

I think maybe for the same reasons that you're not confused by the Lakers they have a little bit more

change I mean the Lakers have a tremendous amount of shift and continuity given that all the

the new pieces on their roster but we know who the Pacers are and how they play and I think

incorporating zoo is going to be a fun wrinkle to that one that I'm eager to see how what Carl

all does with it what Tyrie's Hallibur and does with it I just expect the Pacers to be really good

and I feel more confident about them than almost any other team that's in that kind of middle

upper middle class of the Eastern Conference I'm very curious about their first 20 games because

what my confusion is is basically like when Vega spits out an over undernumber that is just way

lower than I would have expected for a team that is you know a year and change removed from almost

winning the championship and has its best player back healthy I think to myself what are my missing

and when I talk to people around the league about like what am I missing because I'm just higher on

this team that is reasonable and I just maybe over indexing on like the the the place they found as a

team the magic the rhythm they found where the balls just pop in everywhere everybody they have

the mind meld were like you cut here I cut there are things we were running all that and the the

answers I hear back are well you remember Halliburns coming out for the killings tear we'll see how

the first 30 games are zoo spacing hiccups I had Ty on my pod last week he kind of down please like

that's the kind of thing guys talk about we'll be fine we know how to play basketball bench like

TJ McConnell wasn't quite the same guy last year as Jaris Walker ready is Kelly Ubering and a

fit do they have a backup fibers are just top in I get all that I just think I what I say the

first 20 games that I really mean like how how does Ty look like if he if he's like how like almost

100% I think they're just going to be really really good and they they just they're a team they know

how to play as a team they amplify each other the lift but but I'm just that was my source of

confusion what about the other three can we talk about the pistons yeah because I'm surprised

that I had them on my list but yeah I do I do think they merit a spot here so you go ahead I also

was considering them and I think some of it is just the idea of the pistons as a 60 win team

already feels like a relic of a moment that kind of went by and I think part of that is just like

their roster is changing shape a little bit part of it is whatever lingering feelings maybe

happening around Jalen Durin and his role on the team and how prioritize D is or is not

and then some of it felt like that was a great window that they seized on and now it's kind of

back to the reality of an East that's a little deeper a little more competitive that understands

what the pistons are trying to accomplish and is ready to challenge it in the way that we saw

teams doing the playoffs I'm just not sure where their upward momentum is and I say that and I

fully know just a weird thing to put out loud about a team with this many young players like

clearly Cade can be better a Sark can be better even going down the line like Ron Holland his best

basketball I would think and hope is still ahead of him at some point like there's so many guys

individually that should be better and yet I think the pistons are going to be decidedly worse

as a team in terms of a regular season product and where that leaves them I really don't know

I mean on Ron Holland his team option for next season is 11.5 million dollars

I have having not talked to anybody about this situation because it's Ron Holland it's not the

biggest priority in the world yeah I don't that strikes me as the fourth year option that's like

not an old brainer to be picked up that's a lot of money for a guy who couldn't play in the playoffs

and we'll see if he's able to play in the playoffs this year I think John go ahead I think based

on who he's been there's no way he has validated that that colleague we live in a world where Jamal

Shed just got like eight million a year I think Jamal Shed has been a better player than Ron Holland

I'm glad I didn't get a chance to talk about that contracted I know the world is dying for Jamal Shed

content I thought it was a great contract I actually had when I was penciling out the raptors

future finances just tinkering around a couple weeks back I had him at like 12 a little close

to the mid-level exception and I think that's a good deal for the raptors and also shows that

these the players who are facing restricted free agency or they're just kind of reserved guys are

kind of looking at what's happened and getting a little like all right let me secure what I

could secure yeah um I think the John Collins thing is a real interesting wild card for them

can he can he make enough threes and and kind of dial into how they play and you know I talked about

this last week with Steve Nash about the jail and Duren deal and you know the piston sort of now

betting on a on a core that has two total non-shooters as part of it and as Sartons and

and Jalen Duren um and how you know does that disqualify you from like inner circle title

contention I actually don't think that it does but what you really need is a lot of other things

to go exactly right and you need those two guys who are non-shooters if they're going to continue

to be non-shooters to just get better at every single part of their game and more specifically

the on-ball parts of their game that means the Sartonson's gonna have to do more ball ham like

more screening Jalen Duren already does a ton of screening can you unlock him as a passer

a little bit more is always going to be cade as the center of the universe but like the universe

just has the it's got to be a little bit more varied with those guys and like that's part of

the adventure to me of this team and part of why they're confusing because I don't know how ready

of those guys are to do that I don't know you know is Paul Reed ready to just be like true blue

backup center I guess do where it's not here how does John Collins fit can Danis Jenkins do it again

can Ryan Holland even get minutes for this team how do they sort out the Duncan Robinson Kevin

Herder Isaiah Joe shooter shooter shooter minutes there's a there's a lot of questions you know

there's a lot of people not a lot I've heard from several people around the league who are like hey

I don't think the pistons are going to be a top 16 this year and you want to you want to

recoil from that because and then what's 60 games last year all right but in a regular year

that's like 55 when you take out the tanking teams and now the east is so much better that that's

let's say they're 52 like it's not impossible to see that happening I mean I think especially

if you're talking about not just regular season results but playoff quality like who were the

teams that were really gonna trust by the end of the year I think it's perfectly realistic that

the pistons are not on the top six of that group even if they do have let's say another another

season where they they win in the mid 50s that would be a really nice result for them under the

circumstances but I'm kind of I'm still waiting for a lot of things from them like we have the proof

of concepts of who they can be as a regular season juggernaut in the context of last year

I want to see them make life easier for Cade in ways that they have struggled to do like it's

it's nice that he can carry the weight for so many people that he can be that sort of ball dominant

primary playmaker high pick and roll usage it's a really fun style to watch and like seeing his

ascent in it has been great I just don't know that I fully trust like a Kevin Herder bounce back

shooting year John Collins a guy who like multiple teams have taken a look at and said like

you're not really giving us the things that we actually need in terms of this spot that he's

gonna make a meaningful difference for them like I like Isaiah Joe pickup but is that enough to save

a team that has this many spatial considerations I just think they have some real systemic flaws

and those are still there and they're unresolved and it'll be easier to live with them if like

Jalen Durin is a more effective playoff performer and understands how to play their physicality

a little more or has like some mid-range counters or other ways to tap into his game but even that

doesn't feel like it solves everything and even their their playoff run is kind of in the I had

the beholder right like you would say if you're a piss of it say him we got to the seventh game of

the second round of the playoffs despite a guy who made all NBA in the regular season in Jalen

Durin kind of crapping the bed for the entire playoffs and then you could also say well

you were down three-one to the magic before Franz Wagner got hurt and in major major trouble

in a one-eighth series I think Detroit's floor is pretty high there's gonna defend the hell out

if everyone would be super physical JB Bigger staff is super demanding regular season coach

but I don't consider them a contender to like win to make the finals next year I don't think

I just last thing as a Texan a former Texan spiritually still you know we never really leave

I'd recency bias all of that just watched Kyrie's first game or the are the man's a little bit

better than they're giving credit for for being like I just like Kyrie looked like Kyrie just

just pitter pad dribbles first step you know the shooting is always gonna be there if they have two

of the top 30 players in the NBA do we do we need to just sort of like the all the it's all the

man's health is bad they turn the page right into the Davis they have Cooper flag it who's taller now

and they have a million power forwards they're a weird team and like blah blah blah are they

gonna trade Kyrie let's everybody do their fake Kyrie trade saw these different places I'm not saying

they're like world beaters but in that sort of seven to ten seven to twelve whatever conversation

in the in the West I mean if they have two of the top 30 guys in the league are they just better

are they better than we think they're gonna be they feel like a pretty clear shoe in for the play

end to me I think the high end is gonna be a little tougher with this collection but

they're also a type of confusing we haven't really hit on so much which is just there's so many

potential trade pieces here and there's so many different ways they could approach their roster

if they decide they need to make moves and they do kind of need to make moves to clear room for

some of these guys but on the Kyrie front alone the maves needed guys last year who could literally

dribble like Najee Marshall was running point for them as a matter of like life and death Cooper fly

obviously had to do it. Najee Marshall was ready to kill you while running point I love this is

a Najee Marshall friendly zone I love that dude yeah what am I you have your rules on group chat

yes one of my rules on the Zach Lo Show and I have a lot of rules one of my rules is you're always

happy to have Najee Marshall around just like whether it's at a party in a basketball game like

it's always it's always a pleasure when Najee Marshall's around as you know as a slasher I'm I am

over the moon about having him as a as a piece of any team but I think the the need

and the requirements of last year's roster were so egregious and so outside the bounds of what a

normal basketball team looks like they're just getting some normalcy at the point even if it's in a

like you know more of a scoring guard than a playmaking garden Kyrie is going to make a huge difference

for so many of these guys and so like seeing Cooper set up off the ball to take like get more

actual scoring opportunities that he doesn't have to create for himself seeing some of the bigs

tapped into his lap threads again seeing these forwards and they have like a lot of really good

forward depth right now they're all like good basketball players like they all can do a little

bit of everything PJ Washington sent the all-dom I mean that Najee Marshall Res Johnson Jr. We'll

see what Reese's Shay can give them he didn't look particularly good to me when he got on the

floor in preseason but they's like those guys are all players but they're in that Memphis class for

that reason where it's like there's a lot of depth here and we're going to see what it means

I think what separates them from the Grizzlies is as you mentioned like having Kyrie having Cooper

flag like that's a degree of high end talent that we usually attribute to you know a lower playoff

seat and if there's going to be enough here to cobble that together I'd be a little bit surprised

just given their competition in the West but it wouldn't be altogether shocking.

I mean the the X factor is obviously like where is Derek Lively like like what is his health status

when are we going to see him because you know we all love the longest standard Mavericks in

Sturknovitsky in Dwight Powell but like I just I don't think there's really a place for Dwight

Powell back up center on the court in a lot of meaningful games anymore they could play PJ

Washington Center whatever it's funny you mentioned Grizzlies because when you were when you were

saying before I need you to talk me down about this team yeah I knew you weren't going to say the

Grizzlies because you are I think a little calmer about the Grizzlies and the rest of the ringer

that's yeah I will say as someone like when they're over under came out it's one and a half I was

like hammer hammer they're like they're just too they're too deep they have to and I I have

watched them play in the preseason and they blitz the Hawks and then they lost to the magic who

cares it's preseason I do worry about the top 30 player issue for them a little bit more having

watched it play out on the thing there's just a lot of Ty Jerome like I just a little bit more

Ty Jerome that I'm comfortable with and I do wonder if we're all getting a little ahead of our

skis on the Grizzlies but then I also wonder like is cam boozer going to be a top 30 player right

off the bat at least off and something like I don't I don't I feel less wildly optimistic about

Memphis than I did 10 days ago it's something that I think we we talk around and talk through a

little too quickly when we're thinking about teams like the Hawks right like the magic that they

were able to find in the balance of their offense in the flow of their team it's so easy to just

say like oh these deep teams are going to find their version of that right like the ball is not

going to stick with Ty Jerome it's not going to stick with Scotty Pippin Jr. It's not going to

stick with center coward on the wing like trying to establish himself as a high level player.

Of course it is like it is until it's proven otherwise and so like for all of the depth there

I think it gives them the ability to overwhelm teams over the run of a game right like they're

they're just going to be a better second quarter early fourth quarter team than the vast majority

of their opponents because of it but the high the high end like their starters are probably going

to get out scored on balance for the season they're probably going to lose those minutes unless

Booser looks great or Zach Edie is dominant like there are avenues to do it but

it's just a lot to put on them to say that they're going to be a winning or like a high level or

even a playoff team right out right out of the gate. Edie is the other one where you would say well

if you're betting on the Grizzlies you're betting on maybe Edie is the guy who emerges as like a top

30-35 player in the NBA and then you're like well he's going to play 23 minutes a game or whatever

it's going to be because they're going to be very careful with him he's going to only play

X-amount of games and as impactful as he is I mean he changes literally everything about how their

team plays when he's on the floor you know I'd be sure to see why I end up tomorrow on the

over unders podcast with the Grizzlies because I think their line is pumped up to 30 and a half and

I we'll see we'll see we'll see how that is all right Rob Mahoney thank you for being confused

with me we got group chat you guys are roll out what how many are out now where are you in the

power rakees you've recorded all of them but where yes I believe four of them are out which would

leave us with the final 10 teams yet to be unveiled so we're really getting into the meat of it now

all right that's that's going to be my peloton ride today because I think I've listened to the first

two so what does that mean I'm through I'm through the bottom 10 the bottom 10 I'm making my way

through the dregs and into the the meaty middle where a lot of these confusing teams lived and

prestige TV you're doing a lot of slow horses which I'm jealous about anything else slow horses

right now we're about to launch into the gilded age later this month so you know come to us for all

of your costume drama needs there's I got to tell you I just something about costume drama

I just see it and I'm like no not for me like I don't know what it is like really all of the

palace intrigue that exists in the NBA among these like ultra wealthy people sniping at each other

for arbitrary reasons it's just the same thing transposed over the early 1900s I guess I'm not just

not not for me you know but I may have who knows all right thanks bud thanks I appreciate it

all right that's it for today's edition of the Zach Lowe show thank you to Rob Bajoni thanks

to Zoyce to bike Billy and Jonathan on production thanks to you all for listening to and or

watching this Zach Lowe show will be back later this week likely on Thursday for our second episode

of the week in the meantime I will be out with Bill and House tomorrow doing our over-unders stay tuned

for that thanks everybody 21 over and president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas

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